Leadership Untangled is a podcast series established by Dr. Austin Council for the classes he teaches at Virginia Tech. The podcast series explores different topics related to leadership, social change as they intersect with college student life. In this episode we untangle two "buzz words" in leadership today: systems thinking and wicked problems. I am joined by my friend and colleague Dr. Caitlin Bletscher who is a Scholarly Assistant Professor at Washington State University. Caitlin and I discuss a variety of issues including racism, COVID-19 and the many other systems we live in, how they are intertwined with one another, and what we as change agents (leaders!) can do to fix and dismantle them.