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[Music]

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 I want to thank everybody for coming. This is our first official

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event for Open Access Week. And I'm going to

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begin by introducing Philip Young who is the organizer this week

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and the libraries' Chair of our Open Knowledge Committee.

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Thanks Gail. I just wanted to mention

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our schedule for the week. We have five events

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this week. Um and our schedules back there on

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the table. This is our first event for Open

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Access Week. Um Tomorrow we have a session on

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data and digitization here in this room at 1:30.

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Uh that's data and digitization for the liberal arts and

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human sciences. Um on Wednesday we have a session

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on our open access fund which is increasingly popular and

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which Gail and I help operate here in the libraries

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to help pay the article processing fees for some open

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access journals. You can find out more about it

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at that session. On thursday, I'm leading a

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session on scholarly publishing trends. Uh it's a really

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dynamic environment right now, a lot going on with

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scholarly publishing. So we're gonna cover open access as

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well as other things like bibliometrics, changes in

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peer review and other topics. Uh, and then

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Thursday evening is our our keynote address. We're bringing in Victoria

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Stodden from the university of Illinois to speak about scholarly

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communication in the era of big data and big computation.

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So we feel really fortunate to have her uh

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coming to Virginia tech this year. That will

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be at 7:00 over in Davidson Hall 281.

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So in all of our events are available for NLI

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credit including tonight. So, so I think that's

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it. Thank you all very much for coming and

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thank you to our panelists. Thank you.

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So like to welcome you all officially to the

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faculty graduate student panel on open access. Um I'm

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Gail McMillan, I'm the Director of Scholarly Communication and

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to live here at Virginia Tech Library. And um

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let me just start by defining open access. So

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we're all on the same page. Um, definition

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of open access is literature is digital online free of

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charge and free of most copyright and licensing restrictions.

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What makes it possible is the internet and the consent

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of the author and the copyright holder. And I

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think maybe one of the things that also makes it

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possible as library support and we do that in a

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variety of ways. The library has a part of what

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we do in Scholarly Communication is helped to publish online

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journals and conference proceedings so we can provide support for

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that. We also as Philip said, we manage

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the open access subvention fund and several of you

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I invited because you've taken advantage of that fund and

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I'll be doing a session on Wednesday at 10:00 in

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3080 tortoise. And so if you know anybody

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that might be interested in subvention fund, like I

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would like to know more about it or they can

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just come and fill out the form right there with

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me at hand in case they need some help. So let me

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introduce our panelists and and we'll move along. First

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on my right is Titilola Obilade. I hope I

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said that right. Um She's earned her PhD in

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Learning Sciences and Technologies last spring. Her dissertation investigating

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the alignments between scholarly and popular texts and design content

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analysis is publicly available in the VTechWorks. Um

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as are several of the articles that she's published next

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to Obilade is Sascha Engel who is a PhD candidate and

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aspect the alliance political, ethical and cultural theory archives.

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during its work and she is also a PhD candidate

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She's in the department of Biological sciences and she

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has published an article in Plos One access journals we

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supported. Next to Allison is Carola Haas

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who's a professor in the department of

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Fish and Wildlife Conservation in the College of Natural Resources

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and Environment and she's published through the open access

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subvention fund also. Um So she said so that

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she can reach land managers, independent contractors conservationists in

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developing countries, many of whom lack access to extensive

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journals. Next to Caroline is Scott King professor in

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the department of geosciences where he says he studies the

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interiors of terrestrial plants. Yes you must be.

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So he is the senior executive editor of GeoResJ,

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an open access interdisciplinary online journal

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and he has also served as an editor of

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earth and planetary science letters which is not an open

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system. And at the end of the line we have Jeremy Ernst

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who is an associate professor of integrated stem education.

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He's also on the faculty of the Institute for Creative

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Arts and Technology. He's associate director of the Office

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of Education Research and Outreach and an affiliate faculty member

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for the College of, You know, for engineering

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education. And he was our very first subvention fund

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recipient, successful back in fiscal year 2013. Yes.

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And with the very first round. So now I'll

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let them do the talking. And I just want

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to remind everybody when I invited them to participate in

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the panel, I told them it would be very

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informal. There was nothing to prepare. We just

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wanted to know about your experiences with open access,

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your opinions about it and then maybe you'll have a

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conversation among yourselves, invite the audience to to comment

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or have questions as well. So my life would

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like to start. Okay, thank you. Thanks

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for inviting me. The first experience I had was

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actually online through the Biomed Central Publishing side.

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I had an article I wanted to publish there.

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It was a journal and the cost was in the

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thousands. But somewhere in the lines has said,

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check if your institution is, um, has all

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this about mid central So that you can get some

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reduction. And so I read through all the lines

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and he said Virginia Tech was part of it that

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I would have some 20% because he was asking for

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something in 1000 spots. So when I read it

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and I wanted to submit again, that was stopped

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. I didn't check something. So that's how I

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got to get. I'm like, okay, this

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is my article and this is what I saw on

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the website, but I don't know that's kind of

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what it meant. So that's how I got to

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know. And she explained to me, he didn't

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seem very difficult what the sub pension fund was all

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about and I got into it. I'm like,

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okay if it's 15 and biomedicine role because I'm like

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18, what happens to the remaining 300 on top

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of it? It's like, well that comes to

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my, I've got to do that. So I

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did some mathematical calculation and I'm like, okay if

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I can get um, Other other journals that will

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have something less within the 1005, I could get

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some fashion fun without having to pay out of pocket

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for myself, which I eventually did. And there

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wasn't much example about it at all. It was

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all through email, I didn't have to come knocking

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at her door, anything like that. But the

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most important thing was the journal must have accepted the

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article, you know, even though on the options

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on the website was like, has it been accepted

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or something like that. Um what was key was

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that the journal had, the applicant must have been

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accepted by the um, by the general. then

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the process was much faster and balance it. That's

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it. And I've actually done like several after that

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, you know, it was it was the same

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process. It was pretty quick. That's all I

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have to say. Thank you. Uh Yeah,

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thanks for having me. Uh I was the editor

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of the social and political, ethical and cultural theory

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Archives Spectra um last academic year. The way we

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do it is we we have um we used to

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have one person. Now, it's two persons.

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My immediate successes that our editors now is to people

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. Um And every one of us is we all

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have a three year period. You start out as

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an editor um elect. Uh That was two years

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ago, then you become editor for a year and

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then editor emeritus for the third year. And that's

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what I am right now, here it is.

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Um And so when I was editor elect two years

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ago, uh 2013, Yeah. Um We were

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spectrum was posted on a Wordpress platform um and that

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came with the domain name, which we still have

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thanks to the generosity of the library Spectra journal dot

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org. Um And uh we had always tried to

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keep the articles such that order to keep the publications

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such that the authors would retain copyright um and such

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that it would be as freely accessible as possible without

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them having to pay any fees because it's a graduate

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student journal. And it's a graduate student run graduate

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student journal, which means we try to provide an

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environment that was as friendly to publishing and as friendly

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to dissemination as possible. Um And then during my

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tenure as editor, we move from the Wordpress platform

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to um the Open Journal Systems hosted by the library

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e journals. And so we have been using the

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Open Journal Systems platform throughout the last year and we

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are using it now, which has a number of

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uh huh very beneficial consequences, particularly for the authors

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because they now unlike the Wordpress platform, which was

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all based on email between the authors and editors and

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editors in between them and then the edit respect to

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the authors, authors copy editors, yada, yada

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, yada. Right. Uh So instead now we

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have this platform which hosts the articles and which allows

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us to um which allows authors to submit them independent

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of sending us an email, which allows us to

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manage them independent of sending emails to the authors and

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sending emails amongst ourselves and which allows the peer reviewers

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to access them directly on the platform. So that's

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that's very useful for us. And the added benefit

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to is that the authors get a chance to log

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in at any point during the process and see what

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the article where the articles that and what the what

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the process is all about. Um So there's this

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added convenience. Um and uh through e journals,

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we benefit greatly from any improvements that are made more

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or less in real time. Uh huh to the

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server architecture and to the architecture of the journal itself

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, to the functionality and all this stuff because it's

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constantly updated and it's constantly in the works. Um

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So yeah, you know it looks much better than

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on the Wordpress platform I think and it's much more

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functional and much more convenient and yet we still retain

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the principle that the authors retain copyright and so they

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can do with the articles after they published them on

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spectrum. They can do with articles uh they can

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continue using the articles, reworking them keeping them more

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as works in progress and yet allow them to be

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disseminated as widely as possible. So yeah, so

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um My experience has been with publishing and plus one

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um which is a open access journal and we are

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in a funding gap for our lab and needed to

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get publications out and um without money to publish them

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, the A couple of$1,000 that it takes um

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adds up fast. And so I had actually done

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some research and found the library suspension fund. And

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I actually told my adviser, hey there's the suspension

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fund, you know, we could and she was

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on the fence about publishing my work because we didn't

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have the money to publish it. And so I

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found the suspension fund and I said you know,

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if we publish them plus one, this is the

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cost the library is willing to pay, we can

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publish my article and we don't have to sit around

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and wait on it. And so um we actually

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used it have used the suspension suspension fund for publishing

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two articles at this point and I've submitted a third

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. Um and so it's really helped me where my

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research was put at the bottom of the barrel for

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our lab because we didn't have direct funding for it

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. I was able to get that published um faster

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through the library's help with that. And there's also

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the added convenience of its now open access. So

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it's more widely disseminated and more people are able to

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use it to further their research as well. And

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so when looking at some of the other articles that

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I have published in um micro biology journals specifically,

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there aren't open access. My ones that are in

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open access journals have more views because there um easier

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to find and actually get a copy of it and

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read it without having to pay for it. So

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it's helped boost some of that research as well.

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Well, I have also used the suspension fund and

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I published in a journal that's a traditional, you

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know, paper and journal. But it does do

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, I mean it has online presence now as everything

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does, but it does have a mixed open access

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platform and so you know when you submit an article

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once it's accepted bill tell you, you know,

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if you'd like to publish it open access, that

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will be$3000 if you'd like to publish it.

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You know, in our traditional way it's actually free

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, which is unusual for my field. Most journals

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in my field have page charges just for the print

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oh, print version of, you know, usually

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between 90 and 100 and$50 per page. So

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it's pretty standard to pay 1000 or$1500 for a

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journal article. And I do budget for that in

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my grants, but 3000 is a lot more.

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And uh you know, I hadn't budgeted that.

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It's hard for a sponsor when you think, well

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you could hire an undergrad with technician for the summer

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and give them some great research experience for you can

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you can you can publish this this paper. And

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so uh huh the submission fund was was great that

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it covered about half that Costs. So I still

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had to pony up$1,500 where I could have just

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done it for free if I had just done it

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for free. But since I had already budgeted for

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page charges, you know that that journal, for

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whatever reason, it just happened to drop Jack page

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charges. This was a journal wetlands, wetlands,

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that worked out well for me. But it's a

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, it's a fascinating thing to, to think about

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the process when I was in graduate school, even

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when I was an undergraduate, you know, I

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mean, we just, I had paper copies of

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everything. And I remember thinking about, you had

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to be a member of a journal. You can

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subscribe, but of course the libraries, they charge

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libraries, astronomical rates. So that, you know

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, rather than subscribing, you would be a member

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of the society that published the the journal. And

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I remember joining the most obscure societies in my field

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because I knew wherever I went, you know,

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even if I ended up at some small liberal arts

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college that everybody would have the journal ecology or,

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you know, that everybody would have the major journals

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in my field, but you know, the the

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little one. So I remember being very strategic about

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which organizations you joined, so you can have access

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to their journals. And it's such a different world

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now where, you know, that you used to

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be, You know, so proud of you had

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your collection going back to 1972 or whatever it was

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and now it just takes up room on the room

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on the shelves. And so it's a, but

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it's still, it's still definitely a system in transition

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because, you know, I just actually, I

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just had a students submit a or get a paper

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accepted in the exact same journal. And You know

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, and this time we just went with the free

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, even though I still had, you know,

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we could have come back to the suspension fund,

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but it still would have cost me the$1,500.

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And in this case it was I mean, not

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to say anything bad about the student's paper, you

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know, it's fine paper, but you know,

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it's just it's describing the aquatic invertebrates that live in

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ephemeral wetlands in the florida panhandle. So I don't

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think anybody but academics is really gonna want to read

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it and it's not going to make major conservation decisions

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, there's not gonna be a lot of managers who

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don't, you know, don't have access to a

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library who are going to be responding to this article

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. So in that case, you know, I

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saved I saved my money for another, you know

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, let another article, you know, to go

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open access because we've got one that we're going to

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submit to Plus one soon and let this one go

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in the in the standard format. But it's a

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challenging thing because of course, I think as academics

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, our guts are would be nice, you know

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, most of the cases, the government paid for

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this research, wouldn't it be nice if it was

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just freely available to to everybody? It's all it's

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all like that. Well, thank you for inviting

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me. I'm I guess my name is out there

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. I'm scott king started as an editor in 2000

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of Earth and Planetary Science Letters, which is a

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journal of elsevier's it's a journal that's been around for

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At least 50 years. If not longer, it's

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got a very strong reputation. That's one of the

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highest impact factors in geology or geochemistry and geophysics.

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And Did that for I mean when I started in

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2000. Yeah, I got papers by mail,

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you know, it's not email, you know,

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letters, you know, envelopes with stamps, things

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that you just don't see anymore. Um So you

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know, things have really changed quite a bit.

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I did that served 23 year terms as a senior

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editor. There were six of us by the time

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I quit there were seven of us um as senior

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editors. And when I left the journal in June

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of 20 2007, I had 150 submissions between January

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and June it had ballooned to the point that it

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was absolutely crazy paul. and so I had a

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hiatus at that point. And then 2011 or so

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um publisher at elle severe called me up and they

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said that they were thinking of starting an open access

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journal that was going to be yeah, available through

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Science Direct still. But everything with everything in the

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journal would be open access. Um and they were

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targeting of you know, a group of papers or

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type of papers which would fit very well. So

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I was one of the first editors too agree to

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join that team. We started accepting papers in 2013

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. Um and we're still um still in sort of

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a ramp up phase of accepting papers. The response

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from the community has not been as good as what

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the sort of economic model you can argue about Elsevier's

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economics, but you know, it's not as good

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as what they had been looking for in terms of

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home things. And I talked with a number of

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my colleagues and their response generally was Why should I

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be paying$2,000 to publish a paper in a startup

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journal that's not well respected, whatever when here's another

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journal by the same publisher That I can only pay

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$400, you know, even though it's not open

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access and the open access, I'm not sure that

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the community of people who work on the deep Earth

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are terribly worried about that. There aren't a whole

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lot of policy implications and there's you know there's sort

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of some general interest things and people publish and discover

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and Earth and National Geographic for that. And I

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don't think the community sees open access as a good

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thing for the community because pretty much everyone who's doing

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it is at a university or a national lab.

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You know, they just go to their website and

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click and they can get all of the journals and

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they don't see any of the economics. Um so

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I think that that has been for this case again

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and like your experience, I just published a paper

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in geology six months ago or so. And you

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know, I had the option, you know,

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I could pay an additional$3000 on top of the

385
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whatever outrageous amount it was to pay for it and

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to begin with um to be an open access within

387
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that journal and that that is going on as well

388
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. And I think that there, I think publishers

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are really grappling with what, what to do,

390
00:23:45.109 --> 00:23:47.440 A:middle L:90%
They seem to be trying lots of things. Let's

391
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start an open access journal, let's allow some of

392
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:55.769 A:middle L:90%
the papers in our regular journal to be open access

393
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. They don't seem to know how to deal with

394
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it. And I talked with a good friend of

395
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mine is an editor at nature and until a couple

396
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years ago they seem to be in complete denial.

397
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It said open access is a bad, it'll go

398
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away. I don't know, I wouldn't want to

399
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be a publisher right now. I think it's a

400
00:24:25.269 --> 00:24:30.759 A:middle L:90%
tough area to try and figure out what the future

401
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:34.079 A:middle L:90%
landscape is going to look like and how to be

402
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successful. And so my open access story Yeah Prisoner

403
00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:49.150 A:middle L:90%
two mathematic Research Agenda. So mhm, that's pretty

404
00:24:49.150 --> 00:24:52.670 A:middle L:90%
much my story in a nutshell. Um and what

405
00:24:52.670 --> 00:24:56.950 A:middle L:90%
I mean by that is my area is stem education

406
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, which is kind of at the intersection of multiple

407
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:06.380 A:middle L:90%
disciplines and each discipline within stem education, they all

408
00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:10.240 A:middle L:90%
have their journals that you can publish it. There

409
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:14.730 A:middle L:90%
are very, very few that do have that interdisciplinary

410
00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:18.140 A:middle L:90%
angle and that's part of their scope and they accept

411
00:25:18.150 --> 00:25:22.730 A:middle L:90%
those types of submissions. The most notable was one

412
00:25:22.730 --> 00:25:26.630 A:middle L:90%
of the very early early adopters of open access and

413
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.430 A:middle L:90%
it had been prohibitive for for quite some time because

414
00:25:30.430 --> 00:25:33.410 A:middle L:90%
of some of the reasons that the panel has already

415
00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:37.250 A:middle L:90%
previously identified however, were in education didn't cost that

416
00:25:37.250 --> 00:25:41.779 A:middle L:90%
much in education, but it's a bargain in terms

417
00:25:41.779 --> 00:25:45.750 A:middle L:90%
of what you guys are talking about, most of

418
00:25:45.750 --> 00:25:48.769 A:middle L:90%
our journals are free to publish it. The vast

419
00:25:48.769 --> 00:25:53.160 A:middle L:90%
majority are so uh anyways, the premier journals and

420
00:25:53.170 --> 00:25:56.349 A:middle L:90%
that type of research that have that type of scope

421
00:25:57.670 --> 00:26:03.279 A:middle L:90%
are beginning and have been as the trend was set

422
00:26:03.339 --> 00:26:07.890 A:middle L:90%
over a decade ago with the Journal of stem Education

423
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:12.089 A:middle L:90%
and it's been an open access journal and that was

424
00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:15.150 A:middle L:90%
kind of always read those articles just because you can

425
00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:18.460 A:middle L:90%
conduct a google search and that comes right to the

426
00:26:18.470 --> 00:26:21.160 A:middle L:90%
top and you can actually download it and it was

427
00:26:21.170 --> 00:26:25.950 A:middle L:90%
fantastic. And whereas other journals would take you through

428
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.059 A:middle L:90%
, you would see the abstract and then Uh you

429
00:26:29.059 --> 00:26:32.289 A:middle L:90%
know, then it would ask you for 29-95 to

430
00:26:32.299 --> 00:26:33.160 A:middle L:90%
bring in the article, even if you are on

431
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:36.730 A:middle L:90%
the university system, which that I'm not talking about

432
00:26:36.740 --> 00:26:41.349 A:middle L:90%
this university system, a previous university system would would

433
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.099 A:middle L:90%
prompt you for those fees. So those, those

434
00:26:45.099 --> 00:26:47.950 A:middle L:90%
works kind of went undiscovered to a large degree they

435
00:26:47.950 --> 00:26:51.980 A:middle L:90%
have a readership of four or 500 based off of

436
00:26:51.990 --> 00:26:55.289 A:middle L:90%
whoever. Um, not only is a member of

437
00:26:55.289 --> 00:26:57.569 A:middle L:90%
the organization organization, but also in addition subscribes to

438
00:26:57.569 --> 00:26:59.759 A:middle L:90%
the journal. So, you know, it's a

439
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:03.859 A:middle L:90%
really small readership and uh, so so I published

440
00:27:03.859 --> 00:27:07.470 A:middle L:90%
in in an open access journal and then I and

441
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.539 A:middle L:90%
it sounds really silly, but this is this is

442
00:27:10.539 --> 00:27:12.960 A:middle L:90%
the way I determined its impact all of a sudden

443
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:18.940 A:middle L:90%
when google scholar, it tells citations for sites first

444
00:27:18.940 --> 00:27:22.460 A:middle L:90%
document and the ones that I have an open access

445
00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:26.519 A:middle L:90%
journals are much much higher uh, than than those

446
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:30.079 A:middle L:90%
that are in print only in those really closed membership

447
00:27:30.089 --> 00:27:33.359 A:middle L:90%
type journals but are still prestigious, not knocking them

448
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.339 A:middle L:90%
at all. They're high quality, high caliber journals

449
00:27:37.349 --> 00:27:38.910 A:middle L:90%
. They just aren't accessible to the masses. And

450
00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:42.390 A:middle L:90%
so, um I've kind of took that to heart

451
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:48.099 A:middle L:90%
more recently and that's been my primary target is the

452
00:27:48.099 --> 00:27:49.859 A:middle L:90%
way it used to work is that we go,

453
00:27:49.869 --> 00:27:52.509 A:middle L:90%
you know, Premier Journal and then work my way

454
00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:55.819 A:middle L:90%
down now. It's kind of where are you going

455
00:27:55.829 --> 00:27:59.180 A:middle L:90%
to have that presence and make an impact on the

456
00:27:59.190 --> 00:28:00.299 A:middle L:90%
field because you have to think about who your audience

457
00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:04.759 A:middle L:90%
is as well in my audience, half of my

458
00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:07.579 A:middle L:90%
audience or public educators, so you really have to

459
00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:11.420 A:middle L:90%
think about what they have access to and how are

460
00:28:11.420 --> 00:28:15.099 A:middle L:90%
you going to have that research to practice continuum if

461
00:28:15.099 --> 00:28:17.670 A:middle L:90%
it's never, it's never getting in their hands.

462
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:21.200 A:middle L:90%
So, so I've had really positive experiences when it

463
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:25.450 A:middle L:90%
comes open access and um you see, you see

464
00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:27.869 A:middle L:90%
more and more publishers going that way, and I

465
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:33.859 A:middle L:90%
think it's a fantastic thing, it's me as a

466
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:37.440 A:middle L:90%
researcher as well. I now have access to things

467
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:38.960 A:middle L:90%
that I didn't previously have access to. And I

468
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:42.599 A:middle L:90%
can I can just query that through a search and

469
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:45.349 A:middle L:90%
I don't always have to go through the log in

470
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.309 A:middle L:90%
because the university can't subscribe to everything, they just

471
00:28:48.309 --> 00:28:52.230 A:middle L:90%
can't. And there's some pretty obscure journals out there

472
00:28:52.230 --> 00:28:55.650 A:middle L:90%
, that was very similarly, uh two years,

473
00:28:55.660 --> 00:29:00.299 A:middle L:90%
I was joining, joining Professional organizations just to get

474
00:29:00.309 --> 00:29:03.339 A:middle L:90%
the journal, and I smiled when you said this

475
00:29:03.349 --> 00:29:08.069 A:middle L:90%
, uh dating back to 1972. So we have

476
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:15.170 A:middle L:90%
this uh, this professional organization that has a council

477
00:29:15.170 --> 00:29:18.019 A:middle L:90%
within the organization. If you pay your additional council

478
00:29:18.019 --> 00:29:21.569 A:middle L:90%
membership dues, you get this book and, you

479
00:29:21.569 --> 00:29:25.269 A:middle L:90%
know, everybody in the field as these books lined

480
00:29:25.269 --> 00:29:27.710 A:middle L:90%
up your order, guess what now, all of

481
00:29:27.710 --> 00:29:33.049 A:middle L:90%
those are online. Uh so I came here with

482
00:29:33.059 --> 00:29:37.440 A:middle L:90%
38 boxes of books and now I've convinced those 22

483
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:41.349 A:middle L:90%
small bookshelves, and I think it's it's this kind

484
00:29:41.349 --> 00:29:42.559 A:middle L:90%
of, this kind of initiative, this kind of

485
00:29:45.140 --> 00:29:47.490 A:middle L:90%
, I would call it forward thinking, because it's

486
00:29:47.490 --> 00:29:51.029 A:middle L:90%
it's definitely making a notable, notable impact. And

487
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:55.549 A:middle L:90%
in your and you're seeing people that aren't necessary and

488
00:29:55.549 --> 00:29:56.619 A:middle L:90%
, you know, in the field aren't necessarily attuned

489
00:29:56.619 --> 00:29:59.950 A:middle L:90%
or have no indirect connection to you. And they're

490
00:29:59.960 --> 00:30:03.809 A:middle L:90%
in there identifying your work as as the precursor to

491
00:30:03.809 --> 00:30:08.650 A:middle L:90%
their work and usually uh specifically in my in my

492
00:30:08.650 --> 00:30:12.200 A:middle L:90%
discipline, it was you had to have studied under

493
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:15.710 A:middle L:90%
them or you had to have worked with them or

494
00:30:15.710 --> 00:30:18.859 A:middle L:90%
you had to you had to have some type of

495
00:30:18.329 --> 00:30:22.299 A:middle L:90%
interaction with them on some professional level to fully be

496
00:30:22.299 --> 00:30:26.039 A:middle L:90%
aware of even what they were doing. And I

497
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.579 A:middle L:90%
think it's definitely changed change the field in in many

498
00:30:30.579 --> 00:30:33.460 A:middle L:90%
ways because of that. So this is this is

499
00:30:33.460 --> 00:30:37.269 A:middle L:90%
a really, really impactful thing that's occurred specific to

500
00:30:37.269 --> 00:30:40.079 A:middle L:90%
my discipline. And I know it's not the same

501
00:30:40.089 --> 00:30:41.609 A:middle L:90%
for everyone, but it has been for ours and

502
00:30:41.609 --> 00:30:48.150 A:middle L:90%
just have access and other other journals that I'm referring

503
00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:51.539 A:middle L:90%
to that had kind of a closed leadership or now

504
00:30:51.609 --> 00:30:55.940 A:middle L:90%
now there easily accessible online. Matter of fact,

505
00:30:55.940 --> 00:30:59.099 A:middle L:90%
Virginia Tech Houses two of them or or has her

506
00:30:59.109 --> 00:31:03.460 A:middle L:90%
for a while and they're easily accessible. There's no

507
00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:06.500 A:middle L:90%
log in. It's just access the articles and they're

508
00:31:06.500 --> 00:31:07.460 A:middle L:90%
searchable. And there, you know, there's there's

509
00:31:07.460 --> 00:31:11.549 A:middle L:90%
so many advantages to that format of publication. I

510
00:31:11.549 --> 00:31:15.390 A:middle L:90%
could record ramble on, right. I could stop

511
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:18.859 A:middle L:90%
. I like to ramble on, but I'll stop

512
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.619 A:middle L:90%
. Mhm. Thank you all for your, your

513
00:31:22.630 --> 00:31:26.789 A:middle L:90%
perspectives. You have any questions or comments from the

514
00:31:26.789 --> 00:31:33.970 A:middle L:90%
audience, um comments by the way. I'm a

515
00:31:33.970 --> 00:31:38.109 A:middle L:90%
man of french on, you forgot 2.6 months and

516
00:31:38.109 --> 00:31:41.759 A:middle L:90%
I'm usually running the institutional repository V tech work.

517
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:44.750 A:middle L:90%
So one of the primary like just to store copies

518
00:31:44.750 --> 00:31:47.329 A:middle L:90%
of I think maybe, you know, earlier drafts

519
00:31:47.329 --> 00:31:49.119 A:middle L:90%
of versions that are in non away gold slipped free

520
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.849 A:middle L:90%
to upload those. But I think it was,

521
00:31:53.740 --> 00:32:00.619 A:middle L:90%
I think you were saying about people not necessarily wanting

522
00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:02.589 A:middle L:90%
to read, you know, really obscure academic articles

523
00:32:02.589 --> 00:32:07.740 A:middle L:90%
on, you know, uh invertebrates, fish in

524
00:32:07.750 --> 00:32:10.299 A:middle L:90%
florida and so on like that. So I've actually

525
00:32:10.309 --> 00:32:14.349 A:middle L:90%
, I've been I've been writing approaching a lot lately

526
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:15.619 A:middle L:90%
, but I have a doctorate in english. And

527
00:32:15.619 --> 00:32:16.660 A:middle L:90%
so back when I was doing more of that,

528
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:21.609 A:middle L:90%
um, I was early in the 19 here in

529
00:32:21.609 --> 00:32:24.299 A:middle L:90%
the mid 90s began putting my things on. Of

530
00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:27.799 A:middle L:90%
course, we didn't have the infrastructure that you now

531
00:32:27.809 --> 00:32:30.039 A:middle L:90%
journals and histories. But what I really noticed was

532
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:31.740 A:middle L:90%
that I would put up these things that I thought

533
00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:36.819 A:middle L:90%
were quite obscure about your victorian poets and things and

534
00:32:36.819 --> 00:32:38.250 A:middle L:90%
that people would come out of the woodwork from around

535
00:32:38.250 --> 00:32:40.559 A:middle L:90%
the world to write me about those articles. And

536
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:44.940 A:middle L:90%
in fact they still do in places, you know

537
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:46.109 A:middle L:90%
that. And it's really clear a lot of the

538
00:32:46.109 --> 00:32:49.509 A:middle L:90%
times that they found them online and not in the

539
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.819 A:middle L:90%
journal. And a lot of times it's uh,

540
00:32:51.829 --> 00:32:52.279 A:middle L:90%
you know, at one time I have the same

541
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:53.750 A:middle L:90%
spurs, you know, where, you know,

542
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:57.950 A:middle L:90%
a booker, award winning author, irish author.

543
00:32:58.539 --> 00:33:00.640 A:middle L:90%
I found an article of mine that was linked to

544
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:04.289 A:middle L:90%
the Wikipedia article that I put on my website and

545
00:33:04.289 --> 00:33:07.420 A:middle L:90%
wrote me about this sort of semi biographical article about

546
00:33:07.430 --> 00:33:08.559 A:middle L:90%
obscure irish woman. You know, And I mean

547
00:33:08.569 --> 00:33:12.940 A:middle L:90%
, you can't by that kind of like feeling that

548
00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:15.269 A:middle L:90%
your research is having an impact. You know,

549
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:16.829 A:middle L:90%
Wikipedia by the way to go. But this is

550
00:33:16.829 --> 00:33:20.480 A:middle L:90%
all very well, but it's like the seventh.

551
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:27.460 A:middle L:90%
But yeah, so but it's a little bit of

552
00:33:27.460 --> 00:33:29.390 A:middle L:90%
a vicious circle because I'm not sort of asserting that

553
00:33:29.390 --> 00:33:31.140 A:middle L:90%
like if you put it online then people will come

554
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:32.250 A:middle L:90%
. But I have to say that has been my

555
00:33:32.250 --> 00:33:35.519 A:middle L:90%
experience that like totally the things that I think are

556
00:33:35.529 --> 00:33:38.359 A:middle L:90%
completely obscure and then only academics read or understand definitely

557
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:40.829 A:middle L:90%
get you also get kind of like some crazy people

558
00:33:40.829 --> 00:33:46.269 A:middle L:90%
who really don't understand it, do that in the

559
00:33:46.269 --> 00:33:49.789 A:middle L:90%
health sciences. They have to where they're writing really

560
00:33:49.789 --> 00:33:52.880 A:middle L:90%
, really high level pieces of research about, you

561
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:53.660 A:middle L:90%
know, the latest kind of cancer and then you're

562
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:58.690 A:middle L:90%
a significant other gets that kind of cancer and really

563
00:33:58.700 --> 00:34:01.039 A:middle L:90%
have a desire to read that advanced research whether or

564
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:06.680 A:middle L:90%
not understand. So great. No, no.

565
00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:08.090 A:middle L:90%
I mean I definitely am a big believer in open

566
00:34:08.090 --> 00:34:09.510 A:middle L:90%
access. I think it has, you know,

567
00:34:09.510 --> 00:34:13.519 A:middle L:90%
it's changed a lot of things. And if I

568
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.039 A:middle L:90%
had gotten my article open access for 200 more dollars

569
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:16.050 A:middle L:90%
, that would have been worth it to me.

570
00:34:16.059 --> 00:34:19.309 A:middle L:90%
You know, maybe$500. But it's just,

571
00:34:19.309 --> 00:34:21.210 A:middle L:90%
you know, when you know, when funds are

572
00:34:21.210 --> 00:34:24.110 A:middle L:90%
limited them and given the expense of that, journalists

573
00:34:24.110 --> 00:34:30.150 A:middle L:90%
just don't it's still a weighing the options but without

574
00:34:30.150 --> 00:34:31.320 A:middle L:90%
the library suspension fund, it would be a way

575
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:34.329 A:middle L:90%
worse option because you know, as I said,

576
00:34:34.329 --> 00:34:37.550 A:middle L:90%
and In the one instance it was worth an extra

577
00:34:37.550 --> 00:34:39.210 A:middle L:90%
$1,500 to me you know, I felt like that's

578
00:34:39.210 --> 00:34:43.199 A:middle L:90%
where it needed To go, but for it to

579
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:45.940 A:middle L:90%
have ever been worth an extra$3,000 to me.

580
00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:46.530 A:middle L:90%
You know? I mean that's that's when it's starting

581
00:34:46.539 --> 00:34:51.869 A:middle L:90%
to get Yeah. You know, even for people

582
00:34:51.869 --> 00:34:54.280 A:middle L:90%
that have research budgets that include money for publishing,

583
00:34:54.289 --> 00:34:57.320 A:middle L:90%
that's a lot. That's a lot of money.

584
00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:00.460 A:middle L:90%
And so the so the yeah, the library's invention

585
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.900 A:middle L:90%
, fun has been a huge help in allowing in

586
00:35:02.900 --> 00:35:07.019 A:middle L:90%
allowing that, you know, how you all manage

587
00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:08.159 A:middle L:90%
to get the money. I don't know. But

588
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:09.989 A:middle L:90%
I hope, I hope it stays around because it

589
00:35:09.989 --> 00:35:13.079 A:middle L:90%
is it's a really it's a it's a really helpful

590
00:35:13.090 --> 00:35:14.769 A:middle L:90%
, helpful thing and you know, part of this

591
00:35:14.769 --> 00:35:15.920 A:middle L:90%
whole publishing process to him. And I think that's

592
00:35:15.929 --> 00:35:20.750 A:middle L:90%
that's a whole another thing of I know it really

593
00:35:20.750 --> 00:35:22.150 A:middle L:90%
costs people to have editors and I mean, they

594
00:35:22.150 --> 00:35:24.019 A:middle L:90%
don't pay the academic editor story, but you know

595
00:35:24.019 --> 00:35:25.269 A:middle L:90%
, they have the copy editors and that, you

596
00:35:25.269 --> 00:35:27.599 A:middle L:90%
know, I mean, I know that, you

597
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.530 A:middle L:90%
know, but but Yeah, does it really cost

598
00:35:30.530 --> 00:35:34.860 A:middle L:90%
him$3,000 to process this article? I don't know

599
00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:37.000 A:middle L:90%
. Let's get the demon library most credit. They're

600
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.170 A:middle L:90%
the ones who are funding could access a pension fund

601
00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:45.599 A:middle L:90%
. The library Dean has been a he tends to

602
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:47.340 A:middle L:90%
put in more than the others put in. Yeah

603
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:52.219 A:middle L:90%
, we've never we've never run out of funds whenever

604
00:35:52.230 --> 00:35:54.079 A:middle L:90%
, whenever we'd spend our limit, he'd say,

605
00:35:54.090 --> 00:35:57.380 A:middle L:90%
well, you know, one more article comes in

606
00:35:57.380 --> 00:36:00.480 A:middle L:90%
let me know and he funded it. So we've

607
00:36:00.670 --> 00:36:05.980 A:middle L:90%
spent our budget several times to them that we have

608
00:36:05.980 --> 00:36:07.639 A:middle L:90%
to get. I wanted to kind of ask something

609
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.909 A:middle L:90%
similar to what Amanda was talking about. And that

610
00:36:09.909 --> 00:36:15.019 A:middle L:90%
is have you had reactions to your open access journals

611
00:36:15.019 --> 00:36:16.070 A:middle L:90%
that you've published or have you talked to your colleagues

612
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:22.679 A:middle L:90%
about publishing open access? Yes. So in our

613
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.349 A:middle L:90%
field it's actually if you're going open access, it's

614
00:36:25.349 --> 00:36:30.320 A:middle L:90%
considered a lower journal and that you went open access

615
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:35.909 A:middle L:90%
because your research isn't significant enough to be that nature

616
00:36:35.909 --> 00:36:37.639 A:middle L:90%
science paper. So you went to open access because

617
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:40.659 A:middle L:90%
you couldn't get it anywhere else. So um it's

618
00:36:40.670 --> 00:36:44.110 A:middle L:90%
trying to change, I guess there's a lot of

619
00:36:44.110 --> 00:36:46.190 A:middle L:90%
work going on trying to change that thinking and that

620
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:49.849 A:middle L:90%
thought process that, you know, everything, not

621
00:36:49.849 --> 00:36:52.710 A:middle L:90%
a nature paper, but it's still important um and

622
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:58.719 A:middle L:90%
still furthers the knowledge of the field. Um But

623
00:36:58.730 --> 00:37:01.050 A:middle L:90%
yeah, our culture tends to be the open access

624
00:37:01.059 --> 00:37:06.300 A:middle L:90%
isn't as significant and that you just couldn't get it

625
00:37:06.309 --> 00:37:08.449 A:middle L:90%
anywhere else published anywhere else. Well, there's also

626
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:13.929 A:middle L:90%
literally thousands of scam open access journals. So it

627
00:37:13.929 --> 00:37:16.059 A:middle L:90%
doesn't mean that your article is not legitimate or that

628
00:37:16.070 --> 00:37:19.039 A:middle L:90%
you know, certain journals are not legitimate journals,

629
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:22.239 A:middle L:90%
but it's a pretty scary and strange thing that,

630
00:37:22.250 --> 00:37:22.690 A:middle L:90%
you know, any one of us could get a

631
00:37:22.690 --> 00:37:25.199 A:middle L:90%
paper accepted tomorrow if we paid enough money anyway.

632
00:37:25.210 --> 00:37:27.960 A:middle L:90%
You know, I mean not not in any journal

633
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:30.099 A:middle L:90%
, but I mean like there's literally thousands of these

634
00:37:30.099 --> 00:37:32.300 A:middle L:90%
journals that are just money making things but also find

635
00:37:32.300 --> 00:37:36.659 A:middle L:90%
yourself on the editorial. Right, right, right

636
00:37:36.670 --> 00:37:43.849 A:middle L:90%
. There are probably once a week invitations to publish

637
00:37:43.849 --> 00:37:47.730 A:middle L:90%
in some international open access journal that I've never heard

638
00:37:47.730 --> 00:37:51.349 A:middle L:90%
of before. And if you look at the address

639
00:37:51.829 --> 00:37:54.579 A:middle L:90%
, it's often a post office box in Torrance California

640
00:37:54.579 --> 00:37:59.460 A:middle L:90%
or something like that. And it's you know that

641
00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:05.449 A:middle L:90%
I think that that muddies the water and it's you

642
00:38:05.449 --> 00:38:07.500 A:middle L:90%
know that that contributes to this, you know,

643
00:38:07.510 --> 00:38:12.949 A:middle L:90%
perception among some people that open access papers are.

644
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:15.829 A:middle L:90%
Yeah, but on the other hand, mainstream journals

645
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:21.400 A:middle L:90%
are now offering this option of publishing your paper open

646
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:28.159 A:middle L:90%
access or not. And you know to also many

647
00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:31.960 A:middle L:90%
of the mainstream journals are now saying After two years

648
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:37.809 A:middle L:90%
there's no embargo and they what would Romeo green access

649
00:38:37.809 --> 00:38:42.219 A:middle L:90%
or something like that. And so, you know

650
00:38:42.230 --> 00:38:44.699 A:middle L:90%
, I have all of my papers that I can

651
00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:51.409 A:middle L:90%
put on research gate dot net which is basically allows

652
00:38:51.409 --> 00:38:53.530 A:middle L:90%
you to sort of set up and finds all your

653
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:59.519 A:middle L:90%
papers and co authors and you know, they you

654
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:04.110 A:middle L:90%
know, as you were suggesting Amanda there's some,

655
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:07.820 A:middle L:90%
I'm amazed at some of the papers that are You

656
00:39:07.820 --> 00:39:12.210 A:middle L:90%
know from 15 years ago that have been lost in

657
00:39:12.210 --> 00:39:15.440 A:middle L:90%
the literature are getting a huge number of reads whether

658
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:19.099 A:middle L:90%
they'll actually get a citation or whether they will get

659
00:39:19.099 --> 00:39:21.940 A:middle L:90%
used. I don't know, but the journal tracks

660
00:39:21.940 --> 00:39:24.369 A:middle L:90%
how many times that particular or the website tracks how

661
00:39:24.369 --> 00:39:29.250 A:middle L:90%
many times that has been read. And you know

662
00:39:29.250 --> 00:39:32.090 A:middle L:90%
, some of those papers are getting a phenomenal number

663
00:39:32.090 --> 00:39:35.449 A:middle L:90%
of reads and I kind of look at it like

664
00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:40.690 A:middle L:90%
we're from, that's a that's actually an interesting point

665
00:39:40.690 --> 00:39:45.989 A:middle L:90%
. The where from part to react to your the

666
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:52.940 A:middle L:90%
whole global no impact as it were thing is for

667
00:39:52.940 --> 00:39:54.179 A:middle L:90%
spectrum, it has been interesting to see when we

668
00:39:54.179 --> 00:39:58.130 A:middle L:90%
moved over when we move platforms. Uh huh.

669
00:39:58.619 --> 00:40:00.750 A:middle L:90%
We're in the process over the last couple of years

670
00:40:00.750 --> 00:40:01.769 A:middle L:90%
as we sort of got more established, its relatively

671
00:40:01.769 --> 00:40:05.940 A:middle L:90%
young Journal. We are in the 5th year,

672
00:40:06.530 --> 00:40:09.440 A:middle L:90%
6th Year of Publication Now. Uh and we've we've

673
00:40:09.449 --> 00:40:15.590 A:middle L:90%
received last year, we've suddenly received things from Australia

674
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:21.630 A:middle L:90%
and Russia. Um which was really bizarre seeing how

675
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:24.760 A:middle L:90%
this particular kind of this particular kind of journal in

676
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:30.599 A:middle L:90%
this particular institutional environment is not naturally poised to get

677
00:40:30.610 --> 00:40:35.030 A:middle L:90%
lots of attention. But then people people look for

678
00:40:35.869 --> 00:40:39.590 A:middle L:90%
keywords and they then articles pop up that people have

679
00:40:39.590 --> 00:40:44.130 A:middle L:90%
published in Spectra. And all of a sudden it

680
00:40:44.130 --> 00:40:46.570 A:middle L:90%
got interesting and the recent uh this year's editors tell

681
00:40:46.570 --> 00:40:51.650 A:middle L:90%
me that we have suddenly tripled the number of publications

682
00:40:51.650 --> 00:40:53.320 A:middle L:90%
or the number of submissions that we are getting just

683
00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:57.199 A:middle L:90%
because it's getting more traction, right? So it's

684
00:40:57.199 --> 00:40:59.480 A:middle L:90%
interesting to see not just the temporal but also the

685
00:40:59.489 --> 00:41:04.179 A:middle L:90%
geographical scope that this has taken on. Well,

686
00:41:04.179 --> 00:41:07.000 A:middle L:90%
I noticed that your journal has and prices in makes

687
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:09.650 A:middle L:90%
it a real journal among other things as well as

688
00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:15.980 A:middle L:90%
being so it's everything that's by any of them databases

689
00:41:15.989 --> 00:41:20.840 A:middle L:90%
we are working. Yeah, this right. It's

690
00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:22.829 A:middle L:90%
signifying in a number of ways, including being an

691
00:41:22.829 --> 00:41:22.800 A:middle L:90%
O. J. S, that it is a

692
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:28.730 A:middle L:90%
real right? That's the other thing is that amongst

693
00:41:28.730 --> 00:41:32.570 A:middle L:90%
graduate journals, I think this might be field specific

694
00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:35.940 A:middle L:90%
, but I think when you look at graduate journals

695
00:41:36.309 --> 00:41:38.789 A:middle L:90%
, um but they are often considered lower two year

696
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:42.099 A:middle L:90%
obviously uh oh, you didn't get into a real

697
00:41:42.099 --> 00:41:44.030 A:middle L:90%
journal? Well, I guess you can publish in

698
00:41:44.030 --> 00:41:45.760 A:middle L:90%
a journal. Uh there are some that are very

699
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:50.030 A:middle L:90%
high profile Millennium is an example for international relations which

700
00:41:50.030 --> 00:41:53.130 A:middle L:90%
are very well received and published high quality stuff and

701
00:41:53.139 --> 00:41:59.929 A:middle L:90%
we are getting there. Um but yeah, setting

702
00:41:59.929 --> 00:42:04.500 A:middle L:90%
these markers is really important. We also, for

703
00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:06.489 A:middle L:90%
example, one of the things that we do is

704
00:42:06.489 --> 00:42:08.670 A:middle L:90%
that we publish every article in two formats html format

705
00:42:08.670 --> 00:42:12.559 A:middle L:90%
in pdf format. And so our authors can put

706
00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:15.210 A:middle L:90%
page numbers on their CVS, which is super important

707
00:42:15.210 --> 00:42:16.199 A:middle L:90%
. Right? It's not just an html. Because

708
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.840 A:middle L:90%
of course, you know, the assumption is that

709
00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:22.730 A:middle L:90%
when you see in the U. R. L

710
00:42:22.099 --> 00:42:25.090 A:middle L:90%
. That means it's somehow not real. But if

711
00:42:25.090 --> 00:42:28.880 A:middle L:90%
it has a page number that now we're talking right

712
00:42:28.889 --> 00:42:30.690 A:middle L:90%
. So, you know, it's sort of the

713
00:42:30.690 --> 00:42:35.059 A:middle L:90%
other thing is that the way that you establish uh

714
00:42:35.059 --> 00:42:37.800 A:middle L:90%
huh a profile as a journal of this kind hosted

715
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:45.119 A:middle L:90%
on this platform is also important, Jeff pushing.

716
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:47.579 A:middle L:90%
Yes, I was I was interested to hear about

717
00:42:47.590 --> 00:42:52.469 A:middle L:90%
the issue of prestige biology, but I was wondering

718
00:42:52.469 --> 00:42:58.960 A:middle L:90%
if there were other fields where there's a disconnect between

719
00:42:58.969 --> 00:43:02.710 A:middle L:90%
the, where you need to publish to get tenure

720
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:09.230 A:middle L:90%
or promotion and and access that was their biggest connecting

721
00:43:10.099 --> 00:43:13.110 A:middle L:90%
. So, I guess that's for all the panelists

722
00:43:15.099 --> 00:43:17.239 A:middle L:90%
, there's a disconnect except for one journal and that's

723
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:20.920 A:middle L:90%
the one I was referring to. So, yeah

724
00:43:21.300 --> 00:43:22.119 A:middle L:90%
, I think that it's in the in the short

725
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:25.760 A:middle L:90%
list of must sees and then then there's the list

726
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:30.380 A:middle L:90%
goes on. One of the, yeah, from

727
00:43:30.380 --> 00:43:32.329 A:middle L:90%
a prestige standpoint, there's there's not a huge fall

728
00:43:32.329 --> 00:43:34.619 A:middle L:90%
off, but there is a little bit of a

729
00:43:34.630 --> 00:43:38.650 A:middle L:90%
follow up and one of the main factors and I

730
00:43:38.650 --> 00:43:43.530 A:middle L:90%
can only speak specifically to where I'm sitting in.

731
00:43:43.530 --> 00:43:46.389 A:middle L:90%
My advantage point is, um, is it a

732
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:51.710 A:middle L:90%
for profit that backs the open access and that seems

733
00:43:51.710 --> 00:43:53.730 A:middle L:90%
to make all the world of difference in how it's

734
00:43:53.739 --> 00:43:58.780 A:middle L:90%
perceived by the field. And, and it really

735
00:43:58.780 --> 00:44:00.130 A:middle L:90%
is, I mean, the outward perception whether it

736
00:44:00.130 --> 00:44:04.170 A:middle L:90%
is or not, it's a money maker. And

737
00:44:04.179 --> 00:44:07.829 A:middle L:90%
so therefore there is incentive to maybe accept question on

738
00:44:07.829 --> 00:44:10.150 A:middle L:90%
war, but all that speculation, we don't know

739
00:44:10.150 --> 00:44:13.829 A:middle L:90%
that, uh, there are still index in very

740
00:44:13.829 --> 00:44:15.579 A:middle L:90%
reputable places that are, you know, all the

741
00:44:15.579 --> 00:44:20.860 A:middle L:90%
places that you would index an educational research article that's

742
00:44:20.860 --> 00:44:25.199 A:middle L:90%
where they're indexed as well as openly accessible in many

743
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:29.679 A:middle L:90%
other ways. So if you're inside Pepsico, then

744
00:44:29.690 --> 00:44:31.929 A:middle L:90%
it's going to still populate if versus if you just

745
00:44:31.940 --> 00:44:35.900 A:middle L:90%
do a search criteria on any, on any web

746
00:44:35.900 --> 00:44:37.469 A:middle L:90%
based search engine. So there is uh, there

747
00:44:37.469 --> 00:44:40.329 A:middle L:90%
is a little bit of disconnect and except there's a

748
00:44:40.340 --> 00:44:45.650 A:middle L:90%
big difference when you have a relatively organized impact factor

749
00:44:45.650 --> 00:44:46.840 A:middle L:90%
, which I know that's flawed in many, many

750
00:44:46.849 --> 00:44:51.010 A:middle L:90%
, many ways, but um, you can overcome

751
00:44:51.010 --> 00:44:52.840 A:middle L:90%
many of those perceptions if your index in the right

752
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:54.949 A:middle L:90%
places and if you have an impact factor with the

753
00:44:54.949 --> 00:45:00.130 A:middle L:90%
right people and, and then at that point there's

754
00:45:00.130 --> 00:45:05.320 A:middle L:90%
no, there's no prestige issues and others and other

755
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:07.900 A:middle L:90%
disciplines have, have kind of warmed up to that

756
00:45:07.900 --> 00:45:10.590 A:middle L:90%
within within education as well. You see you see

757
00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:15.550 A:middle L:90%
numbers and you're pretty receptive to this is, wow

758
00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:17.250 A:middle L:90%
, that's a really great impact factor. So you

759
00:45:17.260 --> 00:45:22.610 A:middle L:90%
google the journal, see what's going on there and

760
00:45:22.619 --> 00:45:24.480 A:middle L:90%
yeah, if it passes the passes the eye test

761
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:28.119 A:middle L:90%
of this index in the right places and impact factors

762
00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:31.170 A:middle L:90%
to the right company then, which is ironic because

763
00:45:31.170 --> 00:45:37.769 A:middle L:90%
the impact factor is more profit, so it all

764
00:45:37.769 --> 00:45:42.719 A:middle L:90%
comes full circle. But those have been my observations

765
00:45:43.590 --> 00:45:45.840 A:middle L:90%
, Well, I think there's a tension between what

766
00:45:45.849 --> 00:45:49.670 A:middle L:90%
people saw as the purpose of open access that leads

767
00:45:49.670 --> 00:45:51.179 A:middle L:90%
to some of this, you know, that like

768
00:45:51.190 --> 00:45:52.659 A:middle L:90%
the journal that I published in, it was an

769
00:45:52.670 --> 00:45:53.710 A:middle L:90%
old journal and it had paper thing and they just

770
00:45:53.710 --> 00:45:57.210 A:middle L:90%
decided, well we'll also let some of our articles

771
00:45:57.210 --> 00:45:59.090 A:middle L:90%
go open access. So in that kind of thing

772
00:45:59.090 --> 00:46:00.170 A:middle L:90%
, I don't think there's any prestige issue still had

773
00:46:00.170 --> 00:46:02.550 A:middle L:90%
to get accepted to the journal. It was first

774
00:46:02.550 --> 00:46:05.340 A:middle L:90%
accepted the journal. And then I got to decide

775
00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:07.940 A:middle L:90%
whether I wanted to pay the feed to go open

776
00:46:07.940 --> 00:46:09.489 A:middle L:90%
access. So I think you know, in that

777
00:46:09.500 --> 00:46:14.019 A:middle L:90%
case there's no issue, but I know with plus

778
00:46:14.030 --> 00:46:16.150 A:middle L:90%
one the first time that I reviewed for them and

779
00:46:16.150 --> 00:46:17.760 A:middle L:90%
this is one of the ones, you know,

780
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.389 A:middle L:90%
this is one of the journals that's really you know

781
00:46:21.389 --> 00:46:22.869 A:middle L:90%
, stepped out ahead and sort of lead lead this

782
00:46:22.869 --> 00:46:24.940 A:middle L:90%
idea of open access and said this is really important

783
00:46:24.940 --> 00:46:28.829 A:middle L:90%
. You know created themselves as an open access journal

784
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:31.539 A:middle L:90%
and you know what, I was sort of shocked

785
00:46:31.550 --> 00:46:37.239 A:middle L:90%
by the reviewer instructions which were do not evaluate the

786
00:46:37.250 --> 00:46:38.210 A:middle L:90%
I forget exactly what were they used but you know

787
00:46:38.210 --> 00:46:40.159 A:middle L:90%
, so many journalists want to say this is cutting

788
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:44.849 A:middle L:90%
edge or this is important or this will transformative or

789
00:46:44.849 --> 00:46:46.230 A:middle L:90%
you know, it's something like you know, this

790
00:46:46.230 --> 00:46:49.199 A:middle L:90%
is really super stuff that's going to change the field

791
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:52.349 A:middle L:90%
. And plus one was very specific of saying they

792
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:53.960 A:middle L:90%
want, you know, if somebody has done reasonable

793
00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:57.369 A:middle L:90%
work, they wanted to have a place that can

794
00:46:57.369 --> 00:47:00.719 A:middle L:90%
get out. And so I'm not to say yours

795
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:05.210 A:middle L:90%
was not transformative enough. Yours was absolutely transformative and

796
00:47:05.210 --> 00:47:07.239 A:middle L:90%
you know favor one over the other. I'm just

797
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:08.800 A:middle L:90%
supposed to look at your methods if you both used

798
00:47:09.579 --> 00:47:14.230 A:middle L:90%
appropriate methods to answer your question and you have the

799
00:47:14.230 --> 00:47:17.170 A:middle L:90%
data needed, then you know, I just check

800
00:47:17.170 --> 00:47:20.199 A:middle L:90%
all those boxes and it's good. And then what

801
00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:21.829 A:middle L:90%
happens after that? I don't know, you know

802
00:47:21.829 --> 00:47:23.940 A:middle L:90%
like do they really? I mean I've just been

803
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:25.380 A:middle L:90%
out as a reviewer, you know, did the

804
00:47:25.380 --> 00:47:30.760 A:middle L:90%
editors still say, yeah, but here's what's really

805
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:31.980 A:middle L:90%
more transformative and we're finally accept one. So we're

806
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:34.679 A:middle L:90%
not gonna take years or does it just go.

807
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:36.590 A:middle L:90%
But I mean, I feel like that's how plus

808
00:47:36.590 --> 00:47:38.250 A:middle L:90%
one put itself out as they wanted of anywhere,

809
00:47:38.260 --> 00:47:40.139 A:middle L:90%
anybody who did good work, you didn't get left

810
00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:42.869 A:middle L:90%
out of the publishing process. As long as you've

811
00:47:42.869 --> 00:47:44.650 A:middle L:90%
invested in that the rest of the world may be

812
00:47:44.650 --> 00:47:46.690 A:middle L:90%
able to see it. And so that might contribute

813
00:47:46.690 --> 00:47:49.659 A:middle L:90%
. I mean plus one actually has a relatively high

814
00:47:49.659 --> 00:47:52.539 A:middle L:90%
impact factor. So you know, as you said

815
00:47:52.539 --> 00:47:54.289 A:middle L:90%
, that helps to counteract those negative feelings. But

816
00:47:54.289 --> 00:47:58.150 A:middle L:90%
I mean that that could contribute to people feeling like

817
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:00.199 A:middle L:90%
, oh it's lower quality if they basically said at

818
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:04.000 A:middle L:90%
the outset will publish anything. But again, all

819
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:09.590 A:middle L:90%
this stuff about transformative was pretty subjective Anyway. Um

820
00:48:09.969 --> 00:48:12.969 A:middle L:90%
Thank you, I was going to say for journals

821
00:48:12.969 --> 00:48:15.179 A:middle L:90%
like the new England Journal of Medicine, they had

822
00:48:15.179 --> 00:48:19.849 A:middle L:90%
the highest post facto last year and it's all open

823
00:48:19.849 --> 00:48:22.389 A:middle L:90%
access before it used to be had copy. And

824
00:48:22.969 --> 00:48:27.010 A:middle L:90%
this is the first american herring, that open actress

825
00:48:27.010 --> 00:48:29.750 A:middle L:90%
looked down upon. But because in journals like the

826
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:31.420 A:middle L:90%
new England Journal of Medicine and Lancet does have the

827
00:48:31.429 --> 00:48:36.039 A:middle L:90%
highest impact practice all over. They publish every week

828
00:48:36.050 --> 00:48:37.409 A:middle L:90%
and you don't actually have to pay. And their

829
00:48:37.409 --> 00:48:40.719 A:middle L:90%
reasoning I don't know how to make that money.

830
00:48:40.730 --> 00:48:44.909 A:middle L:90%
I think the advertisements or something and some other things

831
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:49.019 A:middle L:90%
but the thing is that the kind of uh information

832
00:48:49.019 --> 00:48:52.110 A:middle L:90%
they gave up they're always hot button issues and everything

833
00:48:52.110 --> 00:48:53.840 A:middle L:90%
like that. And so every week there's always something

834
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:58.090 A:middle L:90%
in fact when you submit um to them, one

835
00:48:58.090 --> 00:49:00.289 A:middle L:90%
of the things they probably want to know is or

836
00:49:00.289 --> 00:49:02.260 A:middle L:90%
get ready maybe you're going to be interviewed somehow on

837
00:49:02.260 --> 00:49:05.309 A:middle L:90%
some T. V. Or something like that.

838
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:07.230 A:middle L:90%
And you know so the open access that I have

839
00:49:07.230 --> 00:49:10.179 A:middle L:90%
seen through any J. M. And uh Lancet

840
00:49:10.190 --> 00:49:15.429 A:middle L:90%
what they have done is to actually provide the information

841
00:49:15.429 --> 00:49:21.739 A:middle L:90%
for everyone at no cost to um to the writers

842
00:49:21.750 --> 00:49:22.750 A:middle L:90%
at no cost to whoever I want to read it

843
00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:25.630 A:middle L:90%
. Even if you just go through any database one

844
00:49:25.630 --> 00:49:29.630 A:middle L:90%
can actually get there and sometimes you have to log

845
00:49:29.630 --> 00:49:31.039 A:middle L:90%
in and you don't have to actually pay to actually

846
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:35.780 A:middle L:90%
log in to the general side. And so um

847
00:49:36.070 --> 00:49:38.010 A:middle L:90%
this and they have maintained the high impact factor for

848
00:49:38.010 --> 00:49:42.730 A:middle L:90%
several several years now. And so to actually be

849
00:49:42.730 --> 00:49:45.989 A:middle L:90%
able to publish their or even and then one thing

850
00:49:45.989 --> 00:49:46.960 A:middle L:90%
I've also noticed in those journals they can have a

851
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:52.940 A:middle L:90%
long string of authors sometimes 1020. And usually it's

852
00:49:52.940 --> 00:49:57.170 A:middle L:90%
because um they have gone into the field maybe during

853
00:49:57.170 --> 00:50:00.650 A:middle L:90%
the Ebola virus disease crisis, you know, so

854
00:50:00.650 --> 00:50:01.309 A:middle L:90%
you had a lot of people go into the field

855
00:50:01.309 --> 00:50:05.059 A:middle L:90%
so you can have a long string of names that

856
00:50:05.059 --> 00:50:07.519 A:middle L:90%
could fill up half of a pig in some of

857
00:50:07.530 --> 00:50:10.480 A:middle L:90%
their hot button issues that get published. But uh

858
00:50:10.489 --> 00:50:15.369 A:middle L:90%
from my observation open access in those places. I

859
00:50:15.369 --> 00:50:16.619 A:middle L:90%
mean to get published there even if they're one of

860
00:50:16.619 --> 00:50:20.239 A:middle L:90%
the long list of 20 or 30 or 40 names

861
00:50:20.250 --> 00:50:22.570 A:middle L:90%
, it is big. You know, it's not

862
00:50:22.579 --> 00:50:24.980 A:middle L:90%
, it's not something that one looks down, one

863
00:50:24.980 --> 00:50:29.070 A:middle L:90%
looks down upon. And so I just want to

864
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:30.030 A:middle L:90%
throw that like that because they still it's a science

865
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:34.190 A:middle L:90%
journal. But I mean to get your name in

866
00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:37.340 A:middle L:90%
one of the laundry's of names there, you know

867
00:50:37.349 --> 00:50:40.119 A:middle L:90%
, and sometimes actually commission um authors to write something

868
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:44.289 A:middle L:90%
about a certain topic. You know, and it's

869
00:50:44.289 --> 00:50:46.880 A:middle L:90%
all it's all about the impact is all saucing to

870
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:51.179 A:middle L:90%
the readers. And they also have committed no I

871
00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:52.989 A:middle L:90%
find it that the open access in this jungle sometimes

872
00:50:53.260 --> 00:50:57.380 A:middle L:90%
I use them as a data base because I know

873
00:50:57.380 --> 00:50:59.460 A:middle L:90%
that what I'm getting there, the information I'm getting

874
00:50:59.469 --> 00:51:00.880 A:middle L:90%
there is one of the most current. You know

875
00:51:00.889 --> 00:51:04.150 A:middle L:90%
, I mean you know sometimes just going straight to

876
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:05.590 A:middle L:90%
google's call. I'm like okay let me just see

877
00:51:05.590 --> 00:51:08.280 A:middle L:90%
what they have here and I get the information because

878
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:12.579 A:middle L:90%
of all the open access that they make available.

879
00:51:15.139 --> 00:51:16.170 A:middle L:90%
Everyone was something I wanted to ask and that is

880
00:51:16.179 --> 00:51:20.030 A:middle L:90%
how do you find your open access journal? How

881
00:51:20.030 --> 00:51:23.599 A:middle L:90%
did did you hear about them or discover them other

882
00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:27.730 A:middle L:90%
than being invited to edit? Have you had how

883
00:51:27.730 --> 00:51:30.519 A:middle L:90%
did you go about deciding where to publish? Find

884
00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:36.159 A:middle L:90%
access to mates, then seek out an open access

885
00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:38.800 A:middle L:90%
journal to start with? It was the journal that

886
00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:43.230 A:middle L:90%
I met the scope, identified it through more traditional

887
00:51:43.230 --> 00:51:47.659 A:middle L:90%
means. Um And more traditional search engine house to

888
00:51:47.659 --> 00:51:52.269 A:middle L:90%
the library. I said, well I can I

889
00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:57.280 A:middle L:90%
can do that. My works better than that.

890
00:51:57.289 --> 00:52:00.010 A:middle L:90%
So then I looked at how to submit and it

891
00:52:00.010 --> 00:52:02.110 A:middle L:90%
just happened to be open access. But then after

892
00:52:02.110 --> 00:52:06.389 A:middle L:90%
that experience, it was a positive one, you

893
00:52:06.389 --> 00:52:07.769 A:middle L:90%
know, kind of kept an eye out for that

894
00:52:08.250 --> 00:52:13.039 A:middle L:90%
. And then just I found a website that had

895
00:52:13.050 --> 00:52:17.110 A:middle L:90%
open access educational journals and it's a long long list

896
00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:23.320 A:middle L:90%
and 90% I don't know. I don't need any

897
00:52:23.329 --> 00:52:24.929 A:middle L:90%
, it's not the scope, that's not what I

898
00:52:24.940 --> 00:52:28.900 A:middle L:90%
do, but there's a few that are kind of

899
00:52:28.909 --> 00:52:30.769 A:middle L:90%
broadened out through that. So I still am.

900
00:52:31.449 --> 00:52:36.469 A:middle L:90%
I'm not I'm talking like three journalists. I'm not

901
00:52:36.469 --> 00:52:38.170 A:middle L:90%
talking about the time of journalists, but if you

902
00:52:38.170 --> 00:52:42.699 A:middle L:90%
rotate that, it ends up being a good number

903
00:52:42.699 --> 00:52:52.139 A:middle L:90%
of articles as an ally. Mhm. It's actually

904
00:52:52.139 --> 00:52:53.969 A:middle L:90%
one of the journals that's used a lot in our

905
00:52:53.969 --> 00:52:58.699 A:middle L:90%
field, even though it's not it's looked down upon

906
00:52:58.710 --> 00:53:02.159 A:middle L:90%
, but it's used a lot um and it's because

907
00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:06.750 A:middle L:90%
of that and it's that it's not cutting edge.

908
00:53:06.750 --> 00:53:09.239 A:middle L:90%
So a lot of time a lot of our higher

909
00:53:09.239 --> 00:53:13.250 A:middle L:90%
to your journals, you have to be on the

910
00:53:13.250 --> 00:53:16.829 A:middle L:90%
cutting edge and it has to be novel something amazing

911
00:53:16.829 --> 00:53:20.710 A:middle L:90%
in it. And plus one you can publish as

912
00:53:20.710 --> 00:53:23.079 A:middle L:90%
long as your research method is sound, you can

913
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:29.130 A:middle L:90%
publish their And so um it's actually one of the

914
00:53:29.130 --> 00:53:30.949 A:middle L:90%
journals that you come across a lot of the times

915
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:37.329 A:middle L:90%
because everything is not a nature paper but you've still

916
00:53:37.329 --> 00:53:40.179 A:middle L:90%
done work and you still want it published. Mhm

917
00:53:40.949 --> 00:53:45.170 A:middle L:90%
. It was it fit our criteria, what we

918
00:53:45.550 --> 00:53:49.639 A:middle L:90%
four really interested in that. I didn't think I

919
00:53:49.639 --> 00:53:52.849 A:middle L:90%
knew that about blossom. They had. That's lower

920
00:53:52.849 --> 00:53:58.769 A:middle L:90%
but maybe broader criteria for acceptance. And it's just

921
00:53:58.769 --> 00:54:05.380 A:middle L:90%
interesting is it you're such a correlation somehow between publishing

922
00:54:05.389 --> 00:54:09.260 A:middle L:90%
openly course increase to sometimes in your data raw data

923
00:54:09.269 --> 00:54:15.809 A:middle L:90%
plus of course also and reproducibility, your results and

924
00:54:15.820 --> 00:54:19.230 A:middle L:90%
transparency of results. And there's, you know,

925
00:54:19.230 --> 00:54:23.409 A:middle L:90%
and then there's also this whole argument which is really

926
00:54:23.409 --> 00:54:25.670 A:middle L:90%
clearly true that there's what do they call it the

927
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:29.920 A:middle L:90%
file drawer bias or something like that. Where because

928
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:32.869 A:middle L:90%
journals are mostly looking for exciting new innovative cutting edge

929
00:54:32.869 --> 00:54:38.300 A:middle L:90%
things you do your experiment. You don't have any

930
00:54:38.309 --> 00:54:40.960 A:middle L:90%
published. So you don't publish that and then nobody

931
00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:52.250 A:middle L:90%
knows somebody else wasted wherever. Um So I don't

932
00:54:52.250 --> 00:54:54.170 A:middle L:90%
know, there's there's some weird like spectrum there between

933
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:59.059 A:middle L:90%
having things be open and having them be shared elsewhere

934
00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:06.099 A:middle L:90%
. They don't know if they published that kind of

935
00:55:06.110 --> 00:55:07.599 A:middle L:90%
thing in Las, you know, the, oh

936
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:09.690 A:middle L:90%
, I did this experiment and totally failed. No

937
00:55:09.699 --> 00:55:15.280 A:middle L:90%
, I think you have to have some result because

938
00:55:15.289 --> 00:55:17.469 A:middle L:90%
we write, we actually joke all the time that

939
00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:19.380 A:middle L:90%
, you know, one of us is going to

940
00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:23.940 A:middle L:90%
start the Journal of failed of tents because we find

941
00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:25.460 A:middle L:90%
a lot of times that, you know, we're

942
00:55:25.460 --> 00:55:28.670 A:middle L:90%
trying to do something and then we'll talk to collaborate

943
00:55:28.670 --> 00:55:29.969 A:middle L:90%
and they're like, yeah, we did that.

944
00:55:29.980 --> 00:55:34.400 A:middle L:90%
And we're, we're like, oh, we right

945
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:43.719 A:middle L:90%
. Also in the life sciences explicitly accepts negative for

946
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:57.860 A:middle L:90%
no results. Thanks. Right. Yeah. And

947
00:55:57.860 --> 00:56:02.239 A:middle L:90%
that she cares about why you founded the journalist's job

948
00:56:04.030 --> 00:56:07.300 A:middle L:90%
, right. Question about find your open external,

949
00:56:07.300 --> 00:56:10.050 A:middle L:90%
Why did you found a journal? Is, um

950
00:56:12.429 --> 00:56:16.880 A:middle L:90%
, for two reasons, the on the one hand

951
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:21.139 A:middle L:90%
, we we wanted to emphasize that the works that

952
00:56:21.139 --> 00:56:25.489 A:middle L:90%
are published in spectra are at once finished pieces that

953
00:56:25.489 --> 00:56:29.650 A:middle L:90%
are, that are very much publishable. Um,

954
00:56:29.699 --> 00:56:34.940 A:middle L:90%
and yet that they express something that is, that

955
00:56:34.940 --> 00:56:37.099 A:middle L:90%
is part of a bigger conversation we have, you

956
00:56:37.099 --> 00:56:40.480 A:middle L:90%
know, I would assume that the disciplinary equivalent of

957
00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:45.730 A:middle L:90%
an experiment is an ongoing conversation. Right? And

958
00:56:45.730 --> 00:56:49.349 A:middle L:90%
so we are we are emphasizing that the other,

959
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:52.929 A:middle L:90%
the other reason why we're doing this is that as

960
00:56:52.929 --> 00:56:58.619 A:middle L:90%
a graduate journal we're trying to, we're trying to

961
00:56:58.619 --> 00:57:00.019 A:middle L:90%
show, but one of the, one of the

962
00:57:00.019 --> 00:57:02.619 A:middle L:90%
purposes, I think one of the ways I've always

963
00:57:02.619 --> 00:57:07.800 A:middle L:90%
understood graduate journals in my fields, in this case

964
00:57:07.809 --> 00:57:10.599 A:middle L:90%
. So Political science, Economics, International Relations,

965
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:15.610 A:middle L:90%
all that stuff um, is to show that there

966
00:57:15.610 --> 00:57:19.090 A:middle L:90%
are conversations going on between graduate students, amongst graduate

967
00:57:19.090 --> 00:57:21.449 A:middle L:90%
students, between graduate students and faculty, between faculty

968
00:57:21.449 --> 00:57:24.199 A:middle L:90%
and graduate students that are often cutting edge, often

969
00:57:24.210 --> 00:57:28.789 A:middle L:90%
daring, often interdisciplinary often do not fit into any

970
00:57:28.789 --> 00:57:34.449 A:middle L:90%
of the established criteria. Um and which rightfully ought

971
00:57:34.449 --> 00:57:37.679 A:middle L:90%
to have a place in the journals that are more

972
00:57:37.690 --> 00:57:39.800 A:middle L:90%
quote unquote established this war, I would not do

973
00:57:39.809 --> 00:57:44.949 A:middle L:90%
air quotes, I'm sorry, that are more quote

974
00:57:44.949 --> 00:57:49.969 A:middle L:90%
unquote established. Um but where it is often more

975
00:57:49.969 --> 00:57:52.829 A:middle L:90%
difficult to get in for a variety of reasons.

976
00:57:52.010 --> 00:57:59.400 A:middle L:90%
And so offering the authors the ability to maintain their

977
00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:00.510 A:middle L:90%
copyright when we were in the war press platform,

978
00:58:00.510 --> 00:58:04.179 A:middle L:90%
that was worded a little differently. Um but the

979
00:58:04.179 --> 00:58:07.699 A:middle L:90%
authors to hold onto that allows them to keep working

980
00:58:07.699 --> 00:58:10.980 A:middle L:90%
on this stuff, uh and to to prepare it

981
00:58:10.980 --> 00:58:15.170 A:middle L:90%
for other venues, prepared for better, better whatever

982
00:58:15.170 --> 00:58:16.769 A:middle L:90%
that means. Venues, venues with high impact factor

983
00:58:16.769 --> 00:58:20.510 A:middle L:90%
venues with more institutional recognition, that kind of thing

984
00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:22.650 A:middle L:90%
, while simultaneously having something out there that contributes to

985
00:58:22.650 --> 00:58:25.230 A:middle L:90%
an ongoing conversation on the one hand, and allows

986
00:58:25.230 --> 00:58:29.150 A:middle L:90%
them to frankly put it on their cV. Mhm

987
00:58:29.619 --> 00:58:30.760 A:middle L:90%
. Um so, you know, it seems to

988
00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:35.699 A:middle L:90%
me that that gives a variety of incentives and it

989
00:58:35.699 --> 00:58:38.679 A:middle L:90%
has it has been fairly successful um as sort of

990
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:43.059 A:middle L:90%
a point when I when I was editor and talk

991
00:58:43.059 --> 00:58:46.789 A:middle L:90%
to people at conferences about spectrum is a publication platform

992
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:49.699 A:middle L:90%
. I would mention that and you could sort of

993
00:58:49.699 --> 00:58:52.119 A:middle L:90%
see people's eyes getting, you know, lighting up

994
00:58:52.130 --> 00:58:54.900 A:middle L:90%
because it's not, you know, it's published and

995
00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:58.340 A:middle L:90%
it's done right, It's published. And it's sort

996
00:58:58.340 --> 00:59:00.590 A:middle L:90%
of, it's an ongoing thing. You can continue

997
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:01.590 A:middle L:90%
doing that. You know, you don't have to

998
00:59:01.590 --> 00:59:06.670 A:middle L:90%
give up copyright, you don't have to sign this

999
00:59:06.670 --> 00:59:09.260 A:middle L:90%
particular formulation over to a journal that suddenly, miraculously

1000
00:59:09.269 --> 00:59:13.889 A:middle L:90%
, by the virtues of property rights. Now suddenly

1001
00:59:13.900 --> 00:59:17.829 A:middle L:90%
owns your thought in this precise incarnation of your thought

1002
00:59:19.519 --> 00:59:21.010 A:middle L:90%
. Um, and then you have to ask the

1003
00:59:21.010 --> 00:59:22.960 A:middle L:90%
journal, which I always found rather bizarre. I

1004
00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:24.090 A:middle L:90%
have to ask the journal to then publish that stuff

1005
00:59:24.099 --> 00:59:25.510 A:middle L:90%
. And, you, you know, turning dissertation

1006
00:59:25.510 --> 00:59:28.019 A:middle L:90%
into a book or something like that. Right?

1007
00:59:28.030 --> 00:59:30.449 A:middle L:90%
That seemed absurd to me. And so a number

1008
00:59:30.449 --> 00:59:32.579 A:middle L:90%
of people who are publishing Inspector, faculty and graduate

1009
00:59:32.579 --> 00:59:35.610 A:middle L:90%
students alike, we've had sort of an expansion of

1010
00:59:35.619 --> 00:59:38.309 A:middle L:90%
that base from from graduate students. Two faculty have

1011
00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:40.820 A:middle L:90%
expressed that that is one of the things that attracts

1012
00:59:40.820 --> 00:59:45.190 A:middle L:90%
them to publish their and it's not interestingly enough,

1013
00:59:45.190 --> 00:59:49.900 A:middle L:90%
that has not led authors too, you know,

1014
00:59:49.900 --> 00:59:52.449 A:middle L:90%
submit what you would expect of, you know,

1015
00:59:52.019 --> 00:59:55.949 A:middle L:90%
communist, economically right, rational utility maximizing individuals,

1016
00:59:57.320 --> 01:00:00.489 A:middle L:90%
uh to just sort of send us these bizarre working

1017
01:00:00.489 --> 01:00:01.889 A:middle L:90%
paper kind of things that are that would never pass

1018
01:00:01.889 --> 01:00:05.630 A:middle L:90%
our peer review anyway, because we do have here

1019
01:00:05.630 --> 01:00:08.360 A:middle L:90%
with you. Uhh and, you know, it

1020
01:00:08.360 --> 01:00:12.030 A:middle L:90%
has not led to a diminishing of quality either.

1021
01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:14.840 A:middle L:90%
I think it's it works. It's good stuff.

1022
01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:24.380 A:middle L:90%
Any last comment support what you'd like to say rational

1023
01:00:24.389 --> 01:00:31.190 A:middle L:90%
choice here is not valid. I agree. Life

1024
01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:34.030 A:middle L:90%
. Thank you all so much for coming. Was

1025
01:00:34.030 --> 01:00:46.650 A:middle L:90%
a great conversation. Thank you. Mhm. Mhm

1026
01:00:52.719 -->  A:middle L:90%
. Yeah.