Okay. Uh huh. Okay. Well why don't
we start with when you first came to the U
. S. What brought you in Olivia here?
Wow. Olivia was asked if he wanted to come
for a year to teach at Open University in urban
. He was an assistant at the 80 Heart Architecture
School in Zurich. And so of course I was
ready to go to and we came in October 63
to open university and a year after he was asked
to stay another year and so we stayed another year
and we're on the way home or do you think
back? We had a boat ticket to go back
by boat and then um team virtue called and that
happened to answer the phone and run quickly to the
school and said look this man wants to talk to
you and he said he was looking for young faculty
and he heard about him because he had a similar
education background he was looking for. And so we
uh drove up to Blacksburg and uh we liked it
was like home, he felt like home. So
we went home back home anyway and in september became
again here For another year and stayed like 30.
That's a good sign. I remember hearing a story
about your your belongings were already like on the ship
or something right to belong to what all of your
things our things were told by ship of course.
But then they came here and started new, you
know. Yeah, they didn't plant better, but
that's good sometimes. So you got a fresh start
. So how did you do you know the story
of having Dean Burchard know about? Well Dean birch
, it knew about him because Dean birch, it
had studied at Harvard at Gropius was the director there
. So Dean birch, it had studied at the
Gropius and then um Olivia went to school in Germany
that was created in that sense of the bauhaus.
It was like a new bauhaus. It's called a
School of Design at all. And Gropius new help
to choose the man who ran that school and who
made also the construction made the plans for the building
. And when Oliver heard about that he was your
your young enthusiastic for everything new. He went to
meet this person. He's max bill, very famous
man later and Marksville said I still have the papers
except you know what you come too old when we
start the construction and then I hired you to work
in the construction office and then you get this dependent
a scholarship and you're finished. So that what happened
. He went there when I started the construction and
stayed and studied there after that. Okay so Gropius
was there when they opened the school, the big
opening Gropius was there. And so there were other
people who knew my husband and somebody in Harvard said
I know him. Get in touch with him.
It's always people to people. Right? Yeah.
So we came and tried. They had only started
the School of architecture then it was new. Was
happy for in architectural engineering. So the emergency is
the one who started the school of Architecturally. So
so Olivio actually helped build you have to build it
up and he had for years and they wrote their
thoughts that put together in the so called blue book
which is around and you know we went to the
beach in Myrtle beach and those two men were sitting
on the beach and talking talking all day and then
Dean purchase wrote that. Yeah. But it was
really I mean what everyone I've interviewed has said everyone
has said was that what was incredibly special was the
collaboration between Olivio anti burchard. Yes, yes.
The collaboration did. Bush gave him the chance to
do what he thought to do. I mean,
of course, but he didn't come out and do
this and this healing left him the freedom to create
something and that's what he could do. So,
can you, can you tell me about that educational
model, that pedagogical model that that Olivio tried to
create here? I didn't understand that. I'm wondering
if you can explain the change in education the way
that Olivia wanted to the big influence which was directly
from the from the bauhaus in this our first by
more than this they had and that was where I
think the first school in this country to make the
workshops that the students could work with, the material
that could create models that work with metal with text
us with Word and that was, and also ceramics
, that was the first year and I think still
has an influence now there is a school who might
have it, but the student needs to relax and
try something out in an architecture student. That was
a big difference, which read a map before.
one thing I've heard is that the way that Olivia
taught was very, he didn't interfere, he just
brought out the best. That's right. He,
he knew what was in the student and he would
say he came out that was the students say now
he woke them up inside and he knew what they
were able to do and he made them do it
. He didn't say do this, do that,
okay. But he would criticize it of course,
yeah. So where did that come from? Was
that, I think that was Ferrari, That was
him. That was his character. That was not
a teacher limitation or something. No. So that
was really his touch. Yeah. Because you know
, he came from another world, from another country
, but we still have very good handicraft, you
know, and everybody is a little trained in that
already in school. So this was missing here also
. So that gave him all the ideas I guess
. Yeah. And Bircher was very didn't say no
. And then can you tell me about my understanding
? Is that once Olivio got here and started setting
up the program, he then hired, brought up
students from, from Auburn. He hired. Yeah
. I mean, how do you see naked?
Who's still here and tom Reagan and tattletale and Bill
Brown? I give you used to have a good
, I put together a list who is where and
how it depends on it. Okay. Can happen
. So was that his those are people that he
taught in auburn that he thought he could bring here
. We needed faculty. So you get the ones
, you know right. I mean these four characters
just finished worked a little bit, maybe practical.
And Bill Brown came back from Harvard I think.
Yeah. Yeah. I heard, I think the
story was that Bill Brown was hired and they didn't
realize that he was part of that auburn group.
He was brought in after and then that's the way
it goes. He's part of the harbour group,
but he was also part of the open group.
But it was like a big surprises. Like another
one. I don't know what you think. It's
been very interesting day here everybody. Yeah. These
stories. So you learn a lot. Oh yeah
. Okay. And so I, can you tell
me more about how Ferrari taught? I cannot talk
about? He thought that you have to ask his
students, you know, who have had to take
his words. No, I can't do that.
I mean, I know you had an enormous impact
because the students now You don't believe what they tell
me the stories. And so it's just at a
meeting in Umbria with the group who was with me
in 72 in Salzburg and the stories that I remember
when I hear it, but it's you know,
I have to wake it up, but I can't
talk for him. Okay. And how about how
about Because I know you were a huge part of
this? Yeah. Well, what we did,
you know for us to come from Switzerland, that
they had traveled before you were all over europe,
even in Egypt, in Argentina and we thought we
know something about the world. But when we came
to urban, it was all new for us.
It was also at the time of the integration,
you know, and then we come here and the
students were very different, hardly ever in Washington,
there never were in new york yet. You know
what's very rural here. So we thought I should
have an experience like we had. And we started
a program to study abroad program At in 67.
Already. We came here in 65 In 67.
Already we took a group of 20 without advertising match
with us to Salzburg and started a program there and
it was enormous the impact they had. They still
talk about it now and then we thought they should
be able to communicate. And I had the chance
to start the course german for architects. So I
started that teaching them here. they're not the first
year but to prepare them later I'm talking about the
culture over there and what not and that helped them
enormously. That's what they still talk about. You
know how they learned to write because you can write
if you have something to talk about you know they
learned the basics here and then we went there.
Yeah and then I kept on doing that and then
later on we stopped to go to Salzburg because it
was kind of they knew everything before they came you
know, so we started to go back to Switzerland
and when we came to the southern Switzerland where we
speak italian I made the same course in italian but
it was called Cultural studies for architects. No more
german or language but it was italian plus coach.
Yeah that's a shame that's not here anymore. That's
a great way. Yeah. And then you kept
on doing that and we had a good hotel in
Lugano and this man kept it open for us in
fall, you know in Uganda, The hotel closed
in october okay. We could always go back to
the same one and then it was sold and so
on and we have nothing and we always hope to
have a house, our own roof. Okay.
And then accidentally we saw available certainly didn't even know
. And we went to the village to ask if
that's what it was and they were it was for
say And these people who were in the 80s,
they were so happy to see us to hear the
school would come because they were both teachers and then
dr sticker who then was the Dean, he helped
us to get the money to buy it. That
was in December 91 is going to be 20 years
on 12 December. Yeah. I interviewed uh speaker
and he apparently that was very difficult to make that
happen. Yes, it was him. Without him
. He would never have gotten, I mean it
belongs to the Virginia Tech Foundation of course, you
know. Yeah. So tell me um on that
, sticking with that, I know that the travel
program um a study abroad program, we started it
with the travel program and the travel program. I
mean in South Park it was combined, we were
six weeks in south to interest. They used two
weeks or so to travel and now the traveling program
still goes on and in some were added photos traveling
program. That means you know that they go from
hotel to hotel if I can say and we have
to study program and that is a semester in to
the house and of course they go out all over
you know to travel but they have their own room
, they have their own bed, they have their
own roof that can say and that's a different story
than to change from day to day. And so
you know they stay for the semester that sleep.
Can you tell me about? I know that was
really important just for you guys to set that up
that that you really wanted to do that. Can
you tell me why human Olivia thought that it was
so critical to start that study program for us.
It was also not to have to go every day
to some other place. And it's also the students
that come home in the evening can think over what
I saw that can't chest their knowledge and so on
. You can do that from house to have from
hotel to hotel. You do that then when you
come home. But if you can be there and
you have your own four walls and it's your home
. You know we have a professional cook, we
have a professional kitchen, we have you know they
it's their home. The cook makes two meals a
day and then a lady prepares the practice in the
morning. So you know it's a different story and
for the education of an architect you think that's really
so we bought that for architecture and we never thought
of anything else. But then when we had the
universities he said that's too much for architecture. But
I still wrote one third has to be architecture and
I was the director for a few years and just
keep on to them. So I hope we keep
on going like and then the rest is whoever wants
to come. But I'm the university, We have
48 students a semester. Yeah. I'm glad it's
wonderful that so many students from this university can have
this experience. You know, that helps. So
I'm very curious about your husband Because I never got
I never got a chance to meet him. I
came here at night. Came too late. Yeah
. So that was yeah. Unfortunately after two years
we had, when we had that school, he
died in 93 or 94. We opened it in
93 and a year later he died And then I
came in 95. Well you missed him so too
much. Not too long, but that's enough.
Well, I I feel like when I came here
as when I was 18, this school is still
very much about. Yes. Yes. He still
felt maybe it's even out, I don't know now
, but he had an impact a long time.
This is really nice for me. This is great
to see you know that he's still into students.
Yeah. Well, I think that's why this is
so important because as time goes on, you know
, these people are not talked about every day.
You still came at the time and he was almost
here. Yeah, I think that's important that people
understand the history of this school and why it is
so special. It's a very special place. So
I give you this and you can read it okay
. I took it with me accident, I thought
of it and when we had the meeting here already
it and they were glad to hear it. At
least it's the truth. So can you tell me
more about, about him what kind of person he
was and I mean obviously he was here he was
very interesting. He read a lot he was very
well informed and he he could also you know if
you are a teacher you have to be able to
pass on your thoughts and so on. And he
was really good at that. Yeah and he obviously
had a passion for yes but also for architecture and
could architecture. Yes he was like he was like
born for that. He didn't think of that before
he went as and became an assisted in at the
to he was was interested but he he was working
as a student in the office and studying and so
on to talk about that because I think people don't
really think of him that way and they think of
him as this great teacher. But he was an
architect he builds of course he was an architect.
Yeah sure. I mean how can you teach architects
if you're not an architect? Well some people try
. So when you talk about his what his practice
his things he built and we work very well together
. You know I did uh I mean I could
create this culture studies here at all when I was
assistant librarian after three months already. But that was
something else was interesting for me to learn a lot
and they had to make all the translations and all
the foreigners in the university came to talk to me
because it was the only one who could get it
right. And then that was interesting. But then
when I could start to teach his courses here that
I mean I started to teach into foreign language department
before we did this and I started to teach french
in the foreign language department. When my mother told
me is true and then slowly slowly it worked out
very well. Yeah. So but Olivia worked as
an architect with max bill. Yes but he worked
in his office that yeah and he built some houses
for max beer, two in Germany and one in
Switzerland Cinema. And they have published his name.
Is there Marksville didn't published employees names. You want
it was it but now they probably found them in
the papers. You know it's published it isn't it
? Yeah. I think we should definitely have a
okay that would be great. So well I don't
know if you're if you're willing to tell some personal
stories. I know you told me about the three
B's About what 3BS don't talk about. That is
I had only after a few years ago this was
a student. No then we had the farm,
he could relax there with the animals. You know
, I think that was very nice to come home
with this. You know, you had full of
things and then you come to the farm and half
says that cows are there, the horses are there
. That's very nice change in the evening. Yeah
. Well I think that's a that's I heard his
favorite shows. Green acres. Oh yeah, okay
. Well he has known us since 66. So
, but that's I mean I think people also don't
think of him that way either. I hear that
from the alone. I meet a lot of alone
. I hear new stories. Yeah. But I
love that idea that he's this incredible architect, this
incredible teacher and he wants to be, you know
, he's at home on a farm. Yes.
Yes. Yes. Yeah. That was good for
their own, for both of us. You know
, so any other stories you want to tell?
No, I mean I can go out all day
, but I don't think you want that. I
want to go on. Well, I think because
this is this film is really about this history that
any stories you can tell about creating the program or
just life moving. I mean it must have been
very difficult to go from from life in Switzerland,
right, auburn. And then here. Well,
I knew english already well because I had studied english
there and already had a diploma from Cambridge, what
you get, you know? So I was ready
but when I was here I was really hard to
get to understand, you know, for him he
created almost his own language to teach architecture. I
mean I would both the mother tongue of both of
us is german. Well, that's interesting because he's
known for these incredible diagrams. Right? So it
was that something that he did more of because he
could express himself better. I think he did that
that he didn't write too much. He could show
it in design. He could show it, you
know, entire grams. But he did not want
to write too much. I mean it was not
his way he would in german he wrote a lot
. Okay. But the professional things he showed in
diagrams and tensions with a few words that you understand
it. Yeah. Well he was a design and
he was not a poet. Right? And what
kind of he's he built furniture. Right. Things
like that. He designed furniture. Yeah. As
he designed chairs man. If he needed something in
the house, he made Yeah. So what else
I mean are there what I really want to get
is I want to get so that these things are
not forgotten. So what kind of what is it
about Olivia that you want to make sure that people
remember? And it's a hard question, but that
is, you know, they have to remember him
into contact they had with him and he had a
lot of good contact with all his students. And
they say now without Ferrari, I would not be
this now and without Ferrari wouldn't have done this and
for me, you even taught me how to listen
to classical music and I would not have done this
and so on. That's what you hear. But
I cannot say something specific about that. Maybe I
think about and comes to my mind today is just
talking. So that's that's that's his legacy, is
the people that he touched. Yes. That's that's
what makes it so nice for me now. You
know, that I see he's still in his students
. This is great for me. That makes my
life now. That's wonderful. And you too,
you're a huge impact on. Yeah. But no
, talking they don't talk about that. I talk
about me to you taught me this and yeah,
you don't know that when you are added as a
teacher, but now when it's coming back, that's
really a big help for me. I'm alone now
. Be in touch with alumni and here all these
things is good. Yeah. And that's rare.
That's more than a good picture. How many people
can really say that they really maybe touch that for
me. I think I have to say all this
my alone not to talk to me, to write
me and are more worse than if I had had
a big cheque paycheck here or something. Yeah,
that's wonderful. We made it is what we got
. So crazy path. Right. You never would
have thought that you'd end up in Blacksburg Virginia,
but a good life. Yeah. So I'm glad
to come back. I'm glad to come back.
And he said if they don't come too long for
too long a time, you know? So I
like to have both lifestyle as long as I can
. Yeah. And last question I'll ask you.
What do you think of the school now? It's
still really exciting to come and see the work.
Good work. What do you mean? I'm since
you're no longer part of the sort of everyday life
of the soul. I'm curious when you do come
back. What do you think of the school is
it's still the same school? I don't know.
I'm just glad. I know Kogel Hall and everything
and so many people. What's going on in the
house here? What can I do? I like
a good exhibition, But what the students are doing
, I used to give them a talk about europe
and the programs or some cultural things, but I
don't know. You know, it looks good and
I like good exhibitions and talk to the teachers,
but that's not too easy. They can only come
for a month. Uh huh. Okay. Okay
. I'll let you go. Thank you. All
right. You're welcome. So you get out What's
local is? Okay.