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Okay. Uh huh. Okay. Well why don't

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we start with when you first came to the U

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. S. What brought you in Olivia here?

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Wow. Olivia was asked if he wanted to come

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for a year to teach at Open University in urban

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. He was an assistant at the 80 Heart Architecture

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School in Zurich. And so of course I was

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ready to go to and we came in October 63

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to open university and a year after he was asked

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to stay another year and so we stayed another year

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and we're on the way home or do you think

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back? We had a boat ticket to go back

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by boat and then um team virtue called and that

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happened to answer the phone and run quickly to the

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school and said look this man wants to talk to

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you and he said he was looking for young faculty

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and he heard about him because he had a similar

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education background he was looking for. And so we

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uh drove up to Blacksburg and uh we liked it

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was like home, he felt like home. So

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we went home back home anyway and in september became

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again here For another year and stayed like 30.

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That's a good sign. I remember hearing a story

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about your your belongings were already like on the ship

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or something right to belong to what all of your

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things our things were told by ship of course.

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But then they came here and started new, you

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know. Yeah, they didn't plant better, but

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that's good sometimes. So you got a fresh start

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. So how did you do you know the story

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of having Dean Burchard know about? Well Dean birch

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, it knew about him because Dean birch, it

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had studied at Harvard at Gropius was the director there

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. So Dean birch, it had studied at the

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Gropius and then um Olivia went to school in Germany

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that was created in that sense of the bauhaus.

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It was like a new bauhaus. It's called a

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School of Design at all. And Gropius new help

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to choose the man who ran that school and who

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made also the construction made the plans for the building

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. And when Oliver heard about that he was your

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your young enthusiastic for everything new. He went to

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meet this person. He's max bill, very famous

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man later and Marksville said I still have the papers

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except you know what you come too old when we

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start the construction and then I hired you to work

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in the construction office and then you get this dependent

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a scholarship and you're finished. So that what happened

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. He went there when I started the construction and

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stayed and studied there after that. Okay so Gropius

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was there when they opened the school, the big

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opening Gropius was there. And so there were other

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people who knew my husband and somebody in Harvard said

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I know him. Get in touch with him.

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It's always people to people. Right? Yeah.

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So we came and tried. They had only started

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the School of architecture then it was new. Was

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happy for in architectural engineering. So the emergency is

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the one who started the school of Architecturally. So

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so Olivio actually helped build you have to build it

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up and he had for years and they wrote their

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thoughts that put together in the so called blue book

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which is around and you know we went to the

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beach in Myrtle beach and those two men were sitting

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on the beach and talking talking all day and then

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Dean purchase wrote that. Yeah. But it was

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really I mean what everyone I've interviewed has said everyone

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has said was that what was incredibly special was the

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collaboration between Olivio anti burchard. Yes, yes.

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The collaboration did. Bush gave him the chance to

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do what he thought to do. I mean,

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of course, but he didn't come out and do

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this and this healing left him the freedom to create

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something and that's what he could do. So,

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can you, can you tell me about that educational

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model, that pedagogical model that that Olivio tried to

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create here? I didn't understand that. I'm wondering

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if you can explain the change in education the way

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that Olivia wanted to the big influence which was directly

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from the from the bauhaus in this our first by

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more than this they had and that was where I

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think the first school in this country to make the

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workshops that the students could work with, the material

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that could create models that work with metal with text

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us with Word and that was, and also ceramics

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, that was the first year and I think still

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has an influence now there is a school who might

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have it, but the student needs to relax and

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try something out in an architecture student. That was

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a big difference, which read a map before.

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one thing I've heard is that the way that Olivia

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taught was very, he didn't interfere, he just

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brought out the best. That's right. He,

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he knew what was in the student and he would

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say he came out that was the students say now

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he woke them up inside and he knew what they

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were able to do and he made them do it

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. He didn't say do this, do that,

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okay. But he would criticize it of course,

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yeah. So where did that come from? Was

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that, I think that was Ferrari, That was

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him. That was his character. That was not

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a teacher limitation or something. No. So that

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was really his touch. Yeah. Because you know

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, he came from another world, from another country

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, but we still have very good handicraft, you

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know, and everybody is a little trained in that

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already in school. So this was missing here also

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. So that gave him all the ideas I guess

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. Yeah. And Bircher was very didn't say no

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. And then can you tell me about my understanding

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? Is that once Olivio got here and started setting

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up the program, he then hired, brought up

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students from, from Auburn. He hired. Yeah

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. I mean, how do you see naked?

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Who's still here and tom Reagan and tattletale and Bill

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Brown? I give you used to have a good

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, I put together a list who is where and

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how it depends on it. Okay. Can happen

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. So was that his those are people that he

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taught in auburn that he thought he could bring here

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. We needed faculty. So you get the ones

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, you know right. I mean these four characters

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just finished worked a little bit, maybe practical.

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And Bill Brown came back from Harvard I think.

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Yeah. Yeah. I heard, I think the

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story was that Bill Brown was hired and they didn't

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realize that he was part of that auburn group.

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He was brought in after and then that's the way

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it goes. He's part of the harbour group,

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but he was also part of the open group.

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But it was like a big surprises. Like another

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one. I don't know what you think. It's

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been very interesting day here everybody. Yeah. These

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stories. So you learn a lot. Oh yeah

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. Okay. And so I, can you tell

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me more about how Ferrari taught? I cannot talk

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about? He thought that you have to ask his

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students, you know, who have had to take

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his words. No, I can't do that.

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I mean, I know you had an enormous impact

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because the students now You don't believe what they tell

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me the stories. And so it's just at a

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meeting in Umbria with the group who was with me

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in 72 in Salzburg and the stories that I remember

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when I hear it, but it's you know,

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I have to wake it up, but I can't

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talk for him. Okay. And how about how

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about Because I know you were a huge part of

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this? Yeah. Well, what we did,

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you know for us to come from Switzerland, that

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they had traveled before you were all over europe,

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even in Egypt, in Argentina and we thought we

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know something about the world. But when we came

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to urban, it was all new for us.

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It was also at the time of the integration,

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you know, and then we come here and the

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students were very different, hardly ever in Washington,

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there never were in new york yet. You know

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what's very rural here. So we thought I should

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have an experience like we had. And we started

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a program to study abroad program At in 67.

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Already. We came here in 65 In 67.

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Already we took a group of 20 without advertising match

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with us to Salzburg and started a program there and

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it was enormous the impact they had. They still

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talk about it now and then we thought they should

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be able to communicate. And I had the chance

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to start the course german for architects. So I

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started that teaching them here. they're not the first

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year but to prepare them later I'm talking about the

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culture over there and what not and that helped them

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enormously. That's what they still talk about. You

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know how they learned to write because you can write

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if you have something to talk about you know they

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learned the basics here and then we went there.

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Yeah and then I kept on doing that and then

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later on we stopped to go to Salzburg because it

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was kind of they knew everything before they came you

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know, so we started to go back to Switzerland

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and when we came to the southern Switzerland where we

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speak italian I made the same course in italian but

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it was called Cultural studies for architects. No more

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german or language but it was italian plus coach.

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Yeah that's a shame that's not here anymore. That's

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a great way. Yeah. And then you kept

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on doing that and we had a good hotel in

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Lugano and this man kept it open for us in

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fall, you know in Uganda, The hotel closed

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in october okay. We could always go back to

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the same one and then it was sold and so

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on and we have nothing and we always hope to

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have a house, our own roof. Okay.

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And then accidentally we saw available certainly didn't even know

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. And we went to the village to ask if

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that's what it was and they were it was for

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say And these people who were in the 80s,

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they were so happy to see us to hear the

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school would come because they were both teachers and then

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dr sticker who then was the Dean, he helped

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us to get the money to buy it. That

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was in December 91 is going to be 20 years

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on 12 December. Yeah. I interviewed uh speaker

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and he apparently that was very difficult to make that

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happen. Yes, it was him. Without him

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. He would never have gotten, I mean it

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belongs to the Virginia Tech Foundation of course, you

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know. Yeah. So tell me um on that

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, sticking with that, I know that the travel

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program um a study abroad program, we started it

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with the travel program and the travel program. I

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mean in South Park it was combined, we were

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six weeks in south to interest. They used two

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weeks or so to travel and now the traveling program

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still goes on and in some were added photos traveling

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program. That means you know that they go from

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hotel to hotel if I can say and we have

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to study program and that is a semester in to

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the house and of course they go out all over

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you know to travel but they have their own room

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, they have their own bed, they have their

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own roof that can say and that's a different story

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than to change from day to day. And so

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you know they stay for the semester that sleep.

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Can you tell me about? I know that was

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really important just for you guys to set that up

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that that you really wanted to do that. Can

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you tell me why human Olivia thought that it was

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so critical to start that study program for us.

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It was also not to have to go every day

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to some other place. And it's also the students

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that come home in the evening can think over what

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I saw that can't chest their knowledge and so on

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. You can do that from house to have from

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hotel to hotel. You do that then when you

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come home. But if you can be there and

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you have your own four walls and it's your home

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. You know we have a professional cook, we

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have a professional kitchen, we have you know they

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it's their home. The cook makes two meals a

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day and then a lady prepares the practice in the

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morning. So you know it's a different story and

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for the education of an architect you think that's really

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so we bought that for architecture and we never thought

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of anything else. But then when we had the

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universities he said that's too much for architecture. But

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I still wrote one third has to be architecture and

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I was the director for a few years and just

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keep on to them. So I hope we keep

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on going like and then the rest is whoever wants

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to come. But I'm the university, We have

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48 students a semester. Yeah. I'm glad it's

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wonderful that so many students from this university can have

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this experience. You know, that helps. So

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I'm very curious about your husband Because I never got

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I never got a chance to meet him. I

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came here at night. Came too late. Yeah

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. So that was yeah. Unfortunately after two years

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we had, when we had that school, he

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died in 93 or 94. We opened it in

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93 and a year later he died And then I

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came in 95. Well you missed him so too

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much. Not too long, but that's enough.

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Well, I I feel like when I came here

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as when I was 18, this school is still

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very much about. Yes. Yes. He still

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felt maybe it's even out, I don't know now

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, but he had an impact a long time.

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This is really nice for me. This is great

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to see you know that he's still into students.

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Yeah. Well, I think that's why this is

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so important because as time goes on, you know

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, these people are not talked about every day.

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You still came at the time and he was almost

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here. Yeah, I think that's important that people

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understand the history of this school and why it is

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so special. It's a very special place. So

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I give you this and you can read it okay

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. I took it with me accident, I thought

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of it and when we had the meeting here already

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it and they were glad to hear it. At

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least it's the truth. So can you tell me

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more about, about him what kind of person he

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was and I mean obviously he was here he was

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very interesting. He read a lot he was very

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well informed and he he could also you know if

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you are a teacher you have to be able to

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pass on your thoughts and so on. And he

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was really good at that. Yeah and he obviously

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had a passion for yes but also for architecture and

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could architecture. Yes he was like he was like

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born for that. He didn't think of that before

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he went as and became an assisted in at the

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to he was was interested but he he was working

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as a student in the office and studying and so

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on to talk about that because I think people don't

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really think of him that way and they think of

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him as this great teacher. But he was an

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architect he builds of course he was an architect.

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Yeah sure. I mean how can you teach architects

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if you're not an architect? Well some people try

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. So when you talk about his what his practice

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his things he built and we work very well together

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. You know I did uh I mean I could

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create this culture studies here at all when I was

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assistant librarian after three months already. But that was

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something else was interesting for me to learn a lot

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and they had to make all the translations and all

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the foreigners in the university came to talk to me

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because it was the only one who could get it

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right. And then that was interesting. But then

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when I could start to teach his courses here that

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I mean I started to teach into foreign language department

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before we did this and I started to teach french

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in the foreign language department. When my mother told

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me is true and then slowly slowly it worked out

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very well. Yeah. So but Olivia worked as

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an architect with max bill. Yes but he worked

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in his office that yeah and he built some houses

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for max beer, two in Germany and one in

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Switzerland Cinema. And they have published his name.

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Is there Marksville didn't published employees names. You want

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it was it but now they probably found them in

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the papers. You know it's published it isn't it

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? Yeah. I think we should definitely have a

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okay that would be great. So well I don't

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know if you're if you're willing to tell some personal

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stories. I know you told me about the three

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B's About what 3BS don't talk about. That is

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I had only after a few years ago this was

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a student. No then we had the farm,

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he could relax there with the animals. You know

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, I think that was very nice to come home

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with this. You know, you had full of

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things and then you come to the farm and half

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says that cows are there, the horses are there

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. That's very nice change in the evening. Yeah

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. Well I think that's a that's I heard his

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favorite shows. Green acres. Oh yeah, okay

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. Well he has known us since 66. So

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, but that's I mean I think people also don't

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think of him that way either. I hear that

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from the alone. I meet a lot of alone

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. I hear new stories. Yeah. But I

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love that idea that he's this incredible architect, this

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incredible teacher and he wants to be, you know

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, he's at home on a farm. Yes.

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Yes. Yes. Yeah. That was good for

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their own, for both of us. You know

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, so any other stories you want to tell?

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No, I mean I can go out all day

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, but I don't think you want that. I

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want to go on. Well, I think because

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this is this film is really about this history that

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any stories you can tell about creating the program or

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just life moving. I mean it must have been

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very difficult to go from from life in Switzerland,

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right, auburn. And then here. Well,

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I knew english already well because I had studied english

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there and already had a diploma from Cambridge, what

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you get, you know? So I was ready

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but when I was here I was really hard to

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get to understand, you know, for him he

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created almost his own language to teach architecture. I

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mean I would both the mother tongue of both of

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us is german. Well, that's interesting because he's

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known for these incredible diagrams. Right? So it

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was that something that he did more of because he

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could express himself better. I think he did that

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that he didn't write too much. He could show

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it in design. He could show it, you

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know, entire grams. But he did not want

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to write too much. I mean it was not

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his way he would in german he wrote a lot

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. Okay. But the professional things he showed in

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diagrams and tensions with a few words that you understand

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00:21:33.690 --> 00:21:37.990 A:middle L:90%
it. Yeah. Well he was a design and

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he was not a poet. Right? And what

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kind of he's he built furniture. Right. Things

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like that. He designed furniture. Yeah. As

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he designed chairs man. If he needed something in

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the house, he made Yeah. So what else

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I mean are there what I really want to get

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is I want to get so that these things are

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not forgotten. So what kind of what is it

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00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:08.220 A:middle L:90%
about Olivia that you want to make sure that people

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remember? And it's a hard question, but that

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is, you know, they have to remember him

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into contact they had with him and he had a

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lot of good contact with all his students. And

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they say now without Ferrari, I would not be

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this now and without Ferrari wouldn't have done this and

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for me, you even taught me how to listen

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to classical music and I would not have done this

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and so on. That's what you hear. But

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00:22:37.930 --> 00:22:41.269 A:middle L:90%
I cannot say something specific about that. Maybe I

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00:22:41.269 --> 00:22:44.869 A:middle L:90%
think about and comes to my mind today is just

398
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:47.410 A:middle L:90%
talking. So that's that's that's his legacy, is

399
00:22:47.410 --> 00:22:49.640 A:middle L:90%
the people that he touched. Yes. That's that's

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00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:53.009 A:middle L:90%
what makes it so nice for me now. You

401
00:22:53.009 --> 00:22:56.710 A:middle L:90%
know, that I see he's still in his students

402
00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:57.480 A:middle L:90%
. This is great for me. That makes my

403
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:03.650 A:middle L:90%
life now. That's wonderful. And you too,

404
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:04.710 A:middle L:90%
you're a huge impact on. Yeah. But no

405
00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:07.960 A:middle L:90%
, talking they don't talk about that. I talk

406
00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.900 A:middle L:90%
about me to you taught me this and yeah,

407
00:23:10.910 --> 00:23:12.650 A:middle L:90%
you don't know that when you are added as a

408
00:23:12.650 --> 00:23:15.450 A:middle L:90%
teacher, but now when it's coming back, that's

409
00:23:15.450 --> 00:23:18.950 A:middle L:90%
really a big help for me. I'm alone now

410
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.079 A:middle L:90%
. Be in touch with alumni and here all these

411
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.680 A:middle L:90%
things is good. Yeah. And that's rare.

412
00:23:25.690 --> 00:23:29.750 A:middle L:90%
That's more than a good picture. How many people

413
00:23:29.750 --> 00:23:33.420 A:middle L:90%
can really say that they really maybe touch that for

414
00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:37.390 A:middle L:90%
me. I think I have to say all this

415
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:38.660 A:middle L:90%
my alone not to talk to me, to write

416
00:23:38.660 --> 00:23:44.089 A:middle L:90%
me and are more worse than if I had had

417
00:23:44.089 --> 00:23:48.160 A:middle L:90%
a big cheque paycheck here or something. Yeah,

418
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.450 A:middle L:90%
that's wonderful. We made it is what we got

419
00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:55.589 A:middle L:90%
. So crazy path. Right. You never would

420
00:23:55.589 --> 00:23:56.720 A:middle L:90%
have thought that you'd end up in Blacksburg Virginia,

421
00:23:56.730 --> 00:24:02.029 A:middle L:90%
but a good life. Yeah. So I'm glad

422
00:24:02.029 --> 00:24:03.559 A:middle L:90%
to come back. I'm glad to come back.

423
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:07.000 A:middle L:90%
And he said if they don't come too long for

424
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:08.819 A:middle L:90%
too long a time, you know? So I

425
00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:11.460 A:middle L:90%
like to have both lifestyle as long as I can

426
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:15.089 A:middle L:90%
. Yeah. And last question I'll ask you.

427
00:24:15.089 --> 00:24:15.650 A:middle L:90%
What do you think of the school now? It's

428
00:24:15.650 --> 00:24:18.440 A:middle L:90%
still really exciting to come and see the work.

429
00:24:18.450 --> 00:24:22.819 A:middle L:90%
Good work. What do you mean? I'm since

430
00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:25.430 A:middle L:90%
you're no longer part of the sort of everyday life

431
00:24:25.430 --> 00:24:26.869 A:middle L:90%
of the soul. I'm curious when you do come

432
00:24:26.869 --> 00:24:30.829 A:middle L:90%
back. What do you think of the school is

433
00:24:30.829 --> 00:24:32.440 A:middle L:90%
it's still the same school? I don't know.

434
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:33.799 A:middle L:90%
I'm just glad. I know Kogel Hall and everything

435
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:36.900 A:middle L:90%
and so many people. What's going on in the

436
00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:37.599 A:middle L:90%
house here? What can I do? I like

437
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.130 A:middle L:90%
a good exhibition, But what the students are doing

438
00:24:41.140 --> 00:24:42.940 A:middle L:90%
, I used to give them a talk about europe

439
00:24:42.940 --> 00:24:45.710 A:middle L:90%
and the programs or some cultural things, but I

440
00:24:45.710 --> 00:24:48.670 A:middle L:90%
don't know. You know, it looks good and

441
00:24:48.670 --> 00:24:51.309 A:middle L:90%
I like good exhibitions and talk to the teachers,

442
00:24:51.309 --> 00:24:53.500 A:middle L:90%
but that's not too easy. They can only come

443
00:24:53.500 --> 00:24:57.200 A:middle L:90%
for a month. Uh huh. Okay. Okay

444
00:24:57.210 --> 00:24:59.900 A:middle L:90%
. I'll let you go. Thank you. All

445
00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:03.309 A:middle L:90%
right. You're welcome. So you get out What's

446
00:25:03.309 --> 00:25:03.259 A:middle L:90%
local is? Okay.