WEBVTT

00:00:34.340 --> 00:00:37.830
Good evening, everybody. How are you?

00:00:37.830 --> 00:00:44.660
[APPLAUSE] This is really happening.

00:00:44.660 --> 00:00:46.680
It's so cool.

00:00:46.680 --> 00:00:48.330
I'm Susanna Rinehart.

00:00:48.330 --> 00:00:49.880
I happen to currently be

00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:53.095
the chair of theater and cinema here at Virginia Tech.

00:00:53.095 --> 00:00:56.660
A couple of months ago in the middle of a busy day,

00:00:56.660 --> 00:00:59.345
I got an email with the subject heading,

00:00:59.345 --> 00:01:03.310
Derry Hutt said I should contact you.

00:01:03.310 --> 00:01:05.160
Derry Hutt knew that that was

00:01:05.160 --> 00:01:08.235
exactly the right subject heading.

00:01:08.235 --> 00:01:10.610
In the middle of that day, I opened it up and it was

00:01:10.610 --> 00:01:13.040
an email from Ms. Nancy Kelly

00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:17.870
[APPLAUSE] Who I believe

00:01:17.870 --> 00:01:19.910
some of you described in your interview

00:01:19.910 --> 00:01:22.655
as a really good instigator.

00:01:22.655 --> 00:01:27.295
She has not lost that touch in 40 years.

00:01:27.295 --> 00:01:31.960
By that afternoon, Nancy Kelly was in my office.

00:01:33.170 --> 00:01:35.770
She said, "You have about 20 minutes."

00:01:35.770 --> 00:01:39.379
I think after about an hour and a half to two hours,

00:01:39.379 --> 00:01:41.480
she laughed with me

00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:46.110
having sold my soul to anything I can do.

00:01:46.550 --> 00:01:49.305
As I did that, I was like right,

00:01:49.305 --> 00:01:51.240
between now and then I think I'm

00:01:51.240 --> 00:01:55.240
directing a show but I'll figure it out.

00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.800
They're not words for

00:02:01.800 --> 00:02:05.750
the honor and privilege I feel to be standing here,

00:02:05.750 --> 00:02:11.220
to be part of telling the story of people in this room.

00:02:11.220 --> 00:02:15.480
To have spent 40-50 hours or something in

00:02:15.480 --> 00:02:18.785
the last week looking at

00:02:18.785 --> 00:02:22.939
these interviews and not sleeping very much,

00:02:22.939 --> 00:02:25.895
because I did it in my spare time.

00:02:25.895 --> 00:02:30.605
But being blown away by who you all are

00:02:30.605 --> 00:02:35.240
and who you were as people 40 years ago

00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:42.035
and now seeing this incredible through-line of who you

00:02:42.035 --> 00:02:45.484
all were at 19 and 20

00:02:45.484 --> 00:02:50.770
and who you all are now at 60 and 65.

00:02:50.770 --> 00:02:52.930
It's stunning.

00:02:52.930 --> 00:02:54.500
I had to take

00:02:54.500 --> 00:02:58.700
about 15 hours of interviews and decide what

00:02:58.700 --> 00:03:01.160
to cut out to get it down

00:03:01.160 --> 00:03:04.120
to about an hour and 20 minutes of interviews.

00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:06.740
The first thing I want to say tonight is there are

00:03:06.740 --> 00:03:11.480
about five more films just in that raw footage,

00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:13.265
and I'm not joking.

00:03:13.265 --> 00:03:15.635
Having done this most of my life,

00:03:15.635 --> 00:03:18.170
it is an exceedingly rare thing

00:03:18.170 --> 00:03:19.640
to look at rare footage of

00:03:19.640 --> 00:03:21.275
interviews. You typically go, yeah.

00:03:21.275 --> 00:03:23.330
Immediately there's going to be 50, 60,

00:03:23.330 --> 00:03:25.840
70 percent of it that I want to toss out.

00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:27.380
It was the opposite.

00:03:27.380 --> 00:03:28.850
There was not a word, there was not

00:03:28.850 --> 00:03:31.610
a moment that I wanted to leave out for tonight.

00:03:31.610 --> 00:03:35.465
That is not only a tribute to who you all are,

00:03:35.465 --> 00:03:37.430
the words you found to describe

00:03:37.430 --> 00:03:40.100
these relatively indescribable experiences,

00:03:40.100 --> 00:03:42.200
but also the people who are interviewing you,

00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:43.520
the people who are filming you.

00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:45.560
It's an incredible piece of

00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:47.750
work on so many people's hearts.

00:03:47.750 --> 00:03:56.264
[APPLAUSE] I just want to say,

00:03:56.264 --> 00:04:00.035
to me, the words that kept coming up were

00:04:00.035 --> 00:04:05.220
community, chosen family, tribe.

00:04:05.220 --> 00:04:09.010
By the time I finished sitting with you and my laptop,

00:04:09.010 --> 00:04:12.380
I felt like I was part of

00:04:12.380 --> 00:04:14.300
that tribe or getting a sense

00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:16.355
of that and I felt very honored about that.

00:04:16.355 --> 00:04:18.979
There's also a lot of laughter.

00:04:18.979 --> 00:04:22.180
These people have beautiful laughs.

00:04:22.180 --> 00:04:24.990
I thought about laughter,

00:04:24.990 --> 00:04:28.530
the laughter of survival,

00:04:28.530 --> 00:04:31.880
the laughter of overcoming and

00:04:31.880 --> 00:04:35.770
living through fear and pain and loss,

00:04:35.770 --> 00:04:39.755
and the laughter of pride and of

00:04:39.755 --> 00:04:41.570
understanding the power of

00:04:41.570 --> 00:04:44.840
action and of showing up and of speaking out.

00:04:44.840 --> 00:04:46.850
That's what tonight is about.

00:04:46.850 --> 00:04:49.870
I have with me two of my dearest students,

00:04:49.870 --> 00:04:52.010
Caroline Silas and Kevin Foster,

00:04:52.010 --> 00:04:53.870
sitting in the shadows up there.

00:04:53.870 --> 00:04:58.870
They will have light on them.

00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:03.440
Some of you may recognize them as leads in Fun Home,

00:05:03.440 --> 00:05:05.750
The Alison Bechdel musical from about a year ago.

00:05:05.750 --> 00:05:07.870
I got to direct them in that.

00:05:07.870 --> 00:05:10.730
It is just a great blessing to have them here.

00:05:10.730 --> 00:05:13.280
Of course, most of the words that they're going to be

00:05:13.280 --> 00:05:16.835
speaking are words that are not in their heart.

00:05:16.835 --> 00:05:19.280
They're going to be reading a lot of the nasty,

00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:21.635
awful letters and editorials.

00:05:21.635 --> 00:05:24.320
We're going to go back and forth between

00:05:24.320 --> 00:05:28.615
the film and some of the primary documents of the time.

00:05:28.615 --> 00:05:30.110
We're going to start that

00:05:30.110 --> 00:05:31.760
now. Thank you all for being here.

00:05:31.760 --> 00:05:41.845
[APPLAUSE] January 9th, 1979 Collegiate Times,

00:05:41.845 --> 00:05:44.020
the Gay Student Alliance at Virginia Tech has

00:05:44.020 --> 00:05:46.390
received permission from the Commission

00:05:46.390 --> 00:05:49.045
on Student Affairs to advertise and sponsor

00:05:49.045 --> 00:05:52.080
Gay Awareness Week, January 15th-19th.

00:05:52.080 --> 00:05:53.740
Fifteen members of the GSA

00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:55.570
went before the commission last Thursday to

00:05:55.570 --> 00:05:59.140
request its approval of the Gay Awareness Week.

00:05:59.140 --> 00:06:01.180
A spokeswoman for the Alliance

00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:04.190
explained the events scheduled for the week.

00:06:04.190 --> 00:06:06.330
On Monday, January 15th,

00:06:06.330 --> 00:06:09.850
WUVT will broadcast a public affairs program,

00:06:09.850 --> 00:06:11.545
Gay Talk for Straight People,

00:06:11.545 --> 00:06:12.940
which will include a discussion of

00:06:12.940 --> 00:06:15.860
gay lifestyles and music by gay artists.

00:06:15.860 --> 00:06:19.140
Tuesday will be Come Out to a Friend Day during which

00:06:19.140 --> 00:06:20.960
gay students will be encouraged to tell

00:06:20.960 --> 00:06:23.350
a friend about their chosen lifestyle.

00:06:23.350 --> 00:06:25.715
Wednesday is labeled Denim Day.

00:06:25.715 --> 00:06:28.040
Gay students and supporters of gay rights will

00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.130
be encouraged to wear jeans or denim of some sort.

00:06:31.130 --> 00:06:34.505
A panel discussion, We Speak for Ourselves,

00:06:34.505 --> 00:06:37.460
is planned for Thursday in McBryde 113.

00:06:37.460 --> 00:06:39.290
The discussion will attempt to educate

00:06:39.290 --> 00:06:41.450
the audience about gay lifestyles and some

00:06:41.450 --> 00:06:43.190
of the problems they encounter as

00:06:43.190 --> 00:06:46.320
a result of their chosen lifestyle.

00:06:52.940 --> 00:06:55.530
When that came out in the newspaper

00:06:55.530 --> 00:06:57.480
on beginning of January,

00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:00.770
the campus absolutely erupted.

00:07:00.770 --> 00:07:06.815
It was stunning, and people were

00:07:06.815 --> 00:07:09.680
outraged that we were going to co-opt

00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:13.950
their dress choice for a day.

00:07:13.950 --> 00:07:15.950
You also have to understand, contextually,

00:07:15.950 --> 00:07:18.350
we had no cell phones,

00:07:18.350 --> 00:07:21.155
so there was one payphone on every hall for

00:07:21.155 --> 00:07:24.690
100 people and they were all plugged in the wall,

00:07:24.690 --> 00:07:26.955
and you had to know the number.

00:07:26.955 --> 00:07:32.525
No social media, no laptops, no computers.

00:07:32.525 --> 00:07:38.475
We had flyers, newspaper articles, television, and radio.

00:07:38.475 --> 00:07:42.620
But, of course, television only had four stations.

00:07:42.620 --> 00:07:47.280
Everything went through The Collegiate Times.

00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:55.650
This little article created a huge uproar

00:07:55.650 --> 00:08:05.675
and a record number of letters to the editor and outrage.

00:08:05.675 --> 00:08:08.190
People were furious and upset,

00:08:08.190 --> 00:08:10.080
and it is only 10 days.

00:08:10.080 --> 00:08:13.060
[LAUGHTER] There was a lag time because the letter,

00:08:13.060 --> 00:08:14.345
you had to actually write,

00:08:14.345 --> 00:08:15.935
put it in mail, whatever.

00:08:15.935 --> 00:08:21.520
The university received 25,000 letters.

00:08:22.690 --> 00:08:25.010
That wasn't just in 10 days,

00:08:25.010 --> 00:08:26.870
but over the time period.

00:08:26.870 --> 00:08:28.820
The letters to the editor,

00:08:28.820 --> 00:08:30.635
some were beautiful and

00:08:30.635 --> 00:08:32.710
understood what we were trying to do,

00:08:32.710 --> 00:08:36.335
and others were vitriolic and hateful.

00:08:36.335 --> 00:08:38.390
Let's put them in pink dorms,

00:08:38.390 --> 00:08:44.400
and you all are fine but keep it to yourselves, and etc.

00:08:48.290 --> 00:08:50.880
Part of what we did at the Gay Student Alliance,

00:08:50.880 --> 00:08:52.269
we made flyers.

00:08:52.269 --> 00:08:55.120
One of the most effective things we did is we did

00:08:55.120 --> 00:09:00.160
this little half flyer in a dorm room closet that had

00:09:00.160 --> 00:09:04.350
a pair of jeans and

00:09:04.350 --> 00:09:06.670
a denim jacket and it had

00:09:06.670 --> 00:09:10.190
a person's hand coming out of the closet.

00:09:12.090 --> 00:09:16.345
The Gay Student Alliance was 20 at the most,

00:09:16.345 --> 00:09:19.265
five women, 15 guys roughly.

00:09:19.265 --> 00:09:21.970
We had a little army

00:09:21.970 --> 00:09:24.540
of people on the night before Denim Day.

00:09:24.540 --> 00:09:28.000
We made thousands of flyers and

00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.085
we went under every single dorm room door and just said,

00:09:31.085 --> 00:09:33.870
"Don't forget tomorrow is Denim Day."

00:09:34.450 --> 00:09:37.520
Come Denim Day, we learned that

00:09:37.520 --> 00:09:40.505
the Blacksburg merchants had

00:09:40.505 --> 00:09:43.280
more sales of dress clothing in

00:09:43.280 --> 00:09:46.504
the winter than had been recorded.

00:09:46.504 --> 00:09:50.465
People were pulling together their corduroys,

00:09:50.465 --> 00:09:52.835
anything but blue jeans.

00:09:52.835 --> 00:09:59.820
Some chose to wear denim skirts and to mock us.

00:10:00.410 --> 00:10:06.060
Basically, we went and there was a sea of corduroy,

00:10:06.280 --> 00:10:09.500
and everyone knew what day it was.

00:10:09.500 --> 00:10:11.645
There was no, "Is this the day?"

00:10:11.645 --> 00:10:14.780
Maybe a few people that lived off-campus wore

00:10:14.780 --> 00:10:16.520
jeans and then somehow

00:10:16.520 --> 00:10:18.605
understood what the implication was.

00:10:18.605 --> 00:10:20.960
But again, there were no allies.

00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:22.930
It's not like you would be an ally.

00:10:22.930 --> 00:10:25.950
The Campus Crusade refused and said,

00:10:25.950 --> 00:10:29.440
"We're going to carry a toothbrush and wear jeans,

00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:33.215
but our toothbrush says we don't support gay rights."

00:10:33.215 --> 00:10:36.469
We're just talking about basic human rights.

00:10:36.469 --> 00:10:38.930
[LAUGHTER] That's all we said,

00:10:38.930 --> 00:10:41.580
support gay rights, wear denim.

00:10:41.910 --> 00:10:43.960
Could you speak a little bit about

00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.675
your expectations regarding Denim Day?

00:10:46.675 --> 00:10:49.330
Clearly you didn't expect

00:10:49.330 --> 00:10:52.885
a wave of support given your experience.

00:10:52.885 --> 00:10:56.950
No. We didn't even know people would pay attention.

00:10:56.950 --> 00:10:59.290
But you were trying, slipping under every dorm door.

00:10:59.290 --> 00:11:01.600
Absolutely. We tried, but the point

00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:08.530
was we did not imagine.

00:11:08.530 --> 00:11:10.945
At that time there were 20,000 students,

00:11:10.945 --> 00:11:12.340
and then faculty and staff.

00:11:12.340 --> 00:11:14.140
So we did not imagine that there

00:11:14.140 --> 00:11:15.940
would be an up welling of support for

00:11:15.940 --> 00:11:20.170
gay rights because gay people didn't have rights.

00:11:20.170 --> 00:11:22.810
It was unthinkable for us to be

00:11:22.810 --> 00:11:26.200
treated to have equality in marriage or any.

00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:31.945
I never believed that would ever happen personally.

00:11:31.945 --> 00:11:36.295
But the point was to think

00:11:36.295 --> 00:11:43.090
and to cause a conversation, to cause awareness.

00:11:43.090 --> 00:11:46.210
So when people, even people today, as I said,

00:11:46.210 --> 00:11:50.200
we had Gay Awareness Week and we had the Denim Day,

00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:52.690
support gay rights wear denim, nobody wore denim.

00:11:52.690 --> 00:11:55.540
They're like, whoa, whoa you failed. It's like.

00:11:55.540 --> 00:12:00.475
We started conversations, but most important

00:12:00.475 --> 00:12:06.105
for us is that we opened the door for many,

00:12:06.105 --> 00:12:09.285
many people that were questioning or understanding

00:12:09.285 --> 00:12:13.045
or just trying to understand themselves.

00:12:13.045 --> 00:12:15.580
We had married people that are going,

00:12:15.580 --> 00:12:17.470
I have three kids and I

00:12:17.470 --> 00:12:19.840
think I'm gay and I don't know what to do.

00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:24.400
The other thing that it did is it thrust us,

00:12:24.400 --> 00:12:29.620
these 20 kids into being gay experts.

00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:32.050
Like there were no resource centers,

00:12:32.050 --> 00:12:35.215
there were no therapists, no centers.

00:12:35.215 --> 00:12:37.780
We got referrals from all over

00:12:37.780 --> 00:12:40.300
Southwest Virginia, people calling us.

00:12:40.300 --> 00:12:41.995
Will you talk to these people?

00:12:41.995 --> 00:12:44.990
People didn't know what to do.

00:12:50.010 --> 00:12:55.225
Yes, we knew [LAUGHTER] people hated us.

00:12:55.225 --> 00:12:57.590
We did it anyway.

00:12:58.350 --> 00:13:02.019
In any movement of any kind,

00:13:02.019 --> 00:13:06.340
there has to be something that starts it.

00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:08.820
The other thing is that everybody

00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:10.470
thought that gay people lived in

00:13:10.470 --> 00:13:14.160
New York City and in San Francisco, and in Miami.

00:13:14.160 --> 00:13:16.845
They did not think that they were in Christiansburg,

00:13:16.845 --> 00:13:21.190
and Shawsville, and Elliston, and in Blacksburg.

00:13:21.860 --> 00:13:24.555
That was a big reckoning

00:13:24.555 --> 00:13:27.600
and I think there have been so many changes and

00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:29.760
so many ways too that have

00:13:29.760 --> 00:13:33.970
progressed because it's really about people.

00:13:33.970 --> 00:13:36.879
Unlike when you get to know someone,

00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:38.830
then you realize, oh,

00:13:38.830 --> 00:13:40.810
they're just not this [LAUGHTER] person,

00:13:40.810 --> 00:13:43.690
they're my brother, anyway.

00:13:43.690 --> 00:13:49.210
So what happened after Denim Day was

00:13:49.210 --> 00:13:52.870
this huge eruption and I

00:13:52.870 --> 00:13:54.640
have to say there were many gay people

00:13:54.640 --> 00:13:57.115
that were furious that we did this.

00:13:57.115 --> 00:14:00.610
We outed them, we made them not

00:14:00.610 --> 00:14:04.615
wear jeans or this or that and so they were upset.

00:14:04.615 --> 00:14:07.360
But it really wasn't our intention,

00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:09.145
but it is what happened.

00:14:09.145 --> 00:14:13.510
On that day, there

00:14:13.510 --> 00:14:14.680
were like 20 people wearing

00:14:14.680 --> 00:14:16.600
jeans, [LAUGHTER] wasn't many.

00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:18.895
I had on my bib overalls,

00:14:18.895 --> 00:14:20.830
I'd like to stay with my button,

00:14:20.830 --> 00:14:23.125
that was very trendy at the time that said,

00:14:23.125 --> 00:14:24.730
better blatant than latent

00:14:24.730 --> 00:14:27.940
because if you admitted you were a gay person,

00:14:27.940 --> 00:14:30.350
that meant you were being blatant.

00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:36.850
Denim Day came and went and then being a co-president,

00:14:36.850 --> 00:14:38.350
the other co-president and I, John,

00:14:38.350 --> 00:14:41.875
were hauled off to Burruss Hall and the Dean Dean,

00:14:41.875 --> 00:14:46.600
which his name was James Dean sat us down and just

00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:52.165
said, you all have,

00:14:52.165 --> 00:14:55.570
embarrassed your group in this university,

00:14:55.570 --> 00:14:56.830
and you have embarrassed

00:14:56.830 --> 00:14:58.930
our university throughout the state,

00:14:58.930 --> 00:15:00.820
and we've heard from

00:15:00.820 --> 00:15:04.045
the governor's office and I want to be very clear,

00:15:04.045 --> 00:15:06.715
you are never going to do this again.

00:15:06.715 --> 00:15:10.120
Hence, he was the gentleman that had to answer

00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:11.650
the 25,000 letters [LAUGHTER]

00:15:11.650 --> 00:15:13.150
that the university had received.

00:15:13.150 --> 00:15:15.025
Who was the Governor at the time?

00:15:15.025 --> 00:15:21.930
John Dalton. We just said,

00:15:21.930 --> 00:15:25.860
okay, [LAUGHTER] I don't have all the memory but,

00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:29.889
it wasn't just the community at large.

00:15:31.140 --> 00:15:34.960
We were sat down by the administration to say,

00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:37.180
this is not okay,

00:15:37.180 --> 00:15:40.600
supporting your stunt, your whatever,

00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.265
and it was just basically.

00:15:42.265 --> 00:15:46.770
If you can imagine now changing

00:15:46.770 --> 00:15:48.660
the preferred dress choice of

00:15:48.660 --> 00:15:51.900
25,000 people in the middle of winter,

00:15:51.900 --> 00:15:54.245
what that would take.

00:15:54.245 --> 00:15:56.395
Even with social media,

00:15:56.395 --> 00:15:58.990
it was pretty epic,

00:15:58.990 --> 00:16:03.910
so the next year,

00:16:03.910 --> 00:16:06.310
I'm happy to say we tried to do it again,

00:16:06.310 --> 00:16:10.120
[NOISE] [LAUGHTER] and I was there,

00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.160
I believe still co-present,

00:16:12.160 --> 00:16:13.900
but there's another guy,

00:16:13.900 --> 00:16:16.840
Scott that was the new co-president and we tried to do

00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:19.870
it again and Dean Dean was

00:16:19.870 --> 00:16:22.810
there and he just was like that I remember him

00:16:22.810 --> 00:16:24.940
put his hands behind his head is

00:16:24.940 --> 00:16:26.725
like "No way you're doing that again."

00:16:26.725 --> 00:16:28.420
I think there's a quote in the paper that said,

00:16:28.420 --> 00:16:29.695
even if I lose my job,

00:16:29.695 --> 00:16:31.525
you're not doing this again.

00:16:31.525 --> 00:16:34.840
Then we scrambled and said, well,

00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:38.545
we'll have a pray for our gay oppressor day.

00:16:38.545 --> 00:16:40.990
So we'll just all get together and pray for you all,

00:16:40.990 --> 00:16:42.670
just like hope you get over yourselves.

00:16:42.670 --> 00:16:44.080
But anyway, it was needless to say,

00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:45.265
it was not as effective,

00:16:45.265 --> 00:16:50.275
but for those of us in it,

00:16:50.275 --> 00:16:56.290
I mean, we were leaders of

00:16:56.290 --> 00:16:59.320
a thing that was highly unpopular and

00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:02.920
dangerous and we did it anyway. [NOISE]

00:17:02.920 --> 00:17:16.960
January 12,1979

00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:20.095
Collegiate Times. To the editor.

00:17:20.095 --> 00:17:22.720
My reaction to the Gay Awareness Week

00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:25.090
stunt involving the denim look

00:17:25.090 --> 00:17:28.570
for support was a mixture of shock and disbelief.

00:17:28.570 --> 00:17:30.340
Come off it.

00:17:30.340 --> 00:17:32.800
Why did you pick denim including blue jeans,

00:17:32.800 --> 00:17:35.530
which I might add is almost the tech uniform?

00:17:35.530 --> 00:17:37.540
Were you trying to get people to dress

00:17:37.540 --> 00:17:39.775
like they supported the gay cause?

00:17:39.775 --> 00:17:41.080
Were you that worried that you

00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:42.460
wouldn't get enough support?

00:17:42.460 --> 00:17:43.900
Were you so worried in

00:17:43.900 --> 00:17:45.670
fact that you would claim those who are

00:17:45.670 --> 00:17:48.745
possibly uninformed of this stunt and

00:17:48.745 --> 00:17:52.240
accidentally wore denim supporters of gay rights?

00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.220
Personally, I've worn blue jeans

00:17:54.220 --> 00:17:55.750
every day that I had been to tech,

00:17:55.750 --> 00:17:58.045
and now I have to work corduroy pants,

00:17:58.045 --> 00:18:01.630
preferably not blue, just in case.

00:18:01.630 --> 00:18:03.790
Let's face it, you just didn't

00:18:03.790 --> 00:18:05.770
think about this action long enough,

00:18:05.770 --> 00:18:07.255
or maybe you did.

00:18:07.255 --> 00:18:09.760
Well, if one of you or your group per chance

00:18:09.760 --> 00:18:12.190
happen to see me walking across the drill field,

00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:15.220
I will be dressed in my corduroys and a sweater

00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:18.415
showing where I stand on the views of gay rights.

00:18:18.415 --> 00:18:20.590
Hopefully others will read this so that we can get

00:18:20.590 --> 00:18:23.245
a true account of gay rights support on campus,

00:18:23.245 --> 00:18:25.180
predicted in a much earlier article

00:18:25.180 --> 00:18:27.505
on gay rights to be 2,000 strong.

00:18:27.505 --> 00:18:32.170
Tony Pirrone, junior Biology [NOISE].

00:18:32.170 --> 00:18:35.755
Same day, Collegiate Times. To the editor.

00:18:35.755 --> 00:18:38.425
In reference to the GSA Denim Day,

00:18:38.425 --> 00:18:40.270
we feel that it is not fair to play

00:18:40.270 --> 00:18:42.400
on people's preference to wear denim.

00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.320
Observation of students will show that

00:18:44.320 --> 00:18:45.520
a very large percentage

00:18:45.520 --> 00:18:47.665
normally wear denim and therefore,

00:18:47.665 --> 00:18:50.080
it is unfair to assume that those students wearing

00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:53.155
denim are gay or are in support of gay rights.

00:18:53.155 --> 00:18:55.180
Let it be known that we,

00:18:55.180 --> 00:18:58.465
the undersigned, and most other normal people,

00:18:58.465 --> 00:19:02.050
do not support GSA and will not recognize

00:19:02.050 --> 00:19:03.310
a Denim Day and

00:19:03.310 --> 00:19:06.115
therefore will continue to where our jeans.

00:19:06.115 --> 00:19:09.100
If the GSA insists on a Denim Day,

00:19:09.100 --> 00:19:11.920
we proposed that all non-supporters of

00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.310
GSA and gay rights wear shoes,

00:19:15.310 --> 00:19:17.440
boots, or other footwear on

00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.125
Wednesday, January 17th, 1979.

00:19:21.125 --> 00:19:23.880
Watch out for barefoot people.

00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:27.015
Earle McMichael Animal Science, Senior.

00:19:27.015 --> 00:19:29.375
Kevin Squires, Forestry, Senior.

00:19:29.375 --> 00:19:31.675
Walter Nelson, Animal Science, Senior.

00:19:31.675 --> 00:19:35.060
Sue Betterly, Accounting, Sophomore.

00:19:43.170 --> 00:19:45.925
Well, I was an engineering student at the time,

00:19:45.925 --> 00:19:48.025
and I remember that day vividly.

00:19:48.025 --> 00:19:49.840
Getting up, putting on my jeans

00:19:49.840 --> 00:19:52.195
because it was cold; it was January.

00:19:52.195 --> 00:19:54.580
It was rainy, and anyone that

00:19:54.580 --> 00:19:58.280
come to Tech knows the Drillfield is a mud pit.

00:20:01.650 --> 00:20:04.450
I got my duck boots, I got my jeans,

00:20:04.450 --> 00:20:07.840
and I'm heading off to my 8:00 AM engineering class.

00:20:07.840 --> 00:20:10.870
I walked in and the entire class,

00:20:10.870 --> 00:20:13.675
all the students were dressed in suits.

00:20:13.675 --> 00:20:17.890
Every single one. When I walked in the class got silent.

00:20:17.890 --> 00:20:19.315
Everybody looked up.

00:20:19.315 --> 00:20:21.415
Nobody said anything,

00:20:21.415 --> 00:20:25.040
but that reaction was like, "Oh."

00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.805
I thought to myself,

00:20:27.805 --> 00:20:30.010
"Don't you look ridiculous sitting here? "

00:20:30.010 --> 00:20:31.510
The women were in high heels and

00:20:31.510 --> 00:20:33.550
nylon stockings when the Drillfield

00:20:33.550 --> 00:20:34.570
has two inches of mud,

00:20:34.570 --> 00:20:37.615
it's pouring down rain, it's 30 some degrees.

00:20:37.615 --> 00:20:42.200
I thought to myself, "You're the one that looks stupid."

00:20:42.540 --> 00:20:46.610
I had a good friend from high school.

00:20:53.910 --> 00:20:57.800
I thought she was going to wear jeans that day.

00:20:57.800 --> 00:21:03.635
She knew. She didn't.

00:21:03.635 --> 00:21:07.390
When I saw her, she said she had intended to wear them,

00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:10.254
but she slipped and fell when she walked out of her dorm,

00:21:10.254 --> 00:21:11.590
so she had to go change,

00:21:11.590 --> 00:21:13.150
and she had nothing else to change into,

00:21:13.150 --> 00:21:18.590
so I just had to take her at her word, but that hurt.

00:21:21.660 --> 00:21:24.475
It was almost like she didn't

00:21:24.475 --> 00:21:26.500
think I deserved equal rights.

00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:29.530
I was less than human or not as good as

00:21:29.530 --> 00:21:35.180
her. I forgot about that.

00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:38.605
But she was aware in high school?

00:21:38.605 --> 00:21:42.985
I'm pretty sure.

00:21:42.985 --> 00:21:46.300
I think it was the first year we had Gay Awareness Week.

00:21:46.300 --> 00:21:49.540
One of the days was Oh By The Way,

00:21:49.540 --> 00:21:52.435
I'm Gay Day, so you had to come out to somebody.

00:21:52.435 --> 00:21:54.550
Of course, I went to tell her,

00:21:54.550 --> 00:21:56.350
and I was like, "Fran,

00:21:56.350 --> 00:21:58.300
by the way, I'm gay."

00:21:58.300 --> 00:21:59.545
And she was like, "I know."

00:21:59.545 --> 00:22:00.820
I said, "But I had to tell somebody,

00:22:00.820 --> 00:22:02.840
I didn't know who else to tell."

00:22:02.840 --> 00:22:09.355
She knew. Her not wearing jeans on Denim Day hurt,

00:22:09.355 --> 00:22:12.445
but there's no hard feelings.

00:22:12.445 --> 00:22:14.020
That's where she was at the time.

00:22:14.020 --> 00:22:16.090
That's where her mindset was,

00:22:16.090 --> 00:22:21.205
her knowledge base, her experience.

00:22:21.205 --> 00:22:25.675
I don't fault anyone for not wearing jeans that day.

00:22:25.675 --> 00:22:28.640
That's where we were at that time.

00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:31.404
When I came out to my parents,

00:22:31.404 --> 00:22:34.250
they struggled with it.

00:22:34.530 --> 00:22:37.345
It was the time.

00:22:37.345 --> 00:22:40.660
It was the lack of knowledge, I guess I should say,

00:22:40.660 --> 00:22:44.480
lack of knowledge, lack of experience.

00:22:44.520 --> 00:22:46.630
They didn't have that knowledge because there were

00:22:46.630 --> 00:22:47.860
so many of us still in the closet.

00:22:47.860 --> 00:22:49.180
We didn't come out. We weren't open.

00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:52.255
We weren't out there, so to speak.

00:22:52.255 --> 00:22:54.640
The Gay Student Alliance couldn't meet on campus.

00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:59.720
We had to meet off-campus for fear of whatever,

00:22:59.790 --> 00:23:04.060
and I was subject to that living in the dorms.

00:23:04.060 --> 00:23:06.490
Especially after Gay Awareness Week

00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:08.050
because I was probably the

00:23:08.050 --> 00:23:10.150
only one in my dorm that wore jeans.

00:23:10.150 --> 00:23:14.080
But I would come

00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:16.825
home from classes or I would wake up in the morning,

00:23:16.825 --> 00:23:19.975
not sure what I was going to find outside my dorm room.

00:23:19.975 --> 00:23:22.840
I came home one time, someone had taken shaving cream and

00:23:22.840 --> 00:23:26.000
sprayed faggot over the door.

00:23:26.310 --> 00:23:29.050
They Vaselined my doorknob,

00:23:29.050 --> 00:23:32.480
so I couldn't grip it, I couldn't get in.

00:23:33.090 --> 00:23:36.400
I came home from class one day and they had shoved

00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:39.940
newspapers under my dorm door and lit them,

00:23:39.940 --> 00:23:42.700
so they set my dorm door on fire.

00:23:42.700 --> 00:23:46.010
That was probably the most terrifying.

00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:50.770
Their behavior started changing.

00:23:50.770 --> 00:23:53.290
I get up in the morning and go to shower,

00:23:53.290 --> 00:23:55.300
they would run out of the shower.

00:23:55.300 --> 00:23:57.085
They'd shout faggot.

00:23:57.085 --> 00:23:58.300
They'd shout things like,

00:23:58.300 --> 00:24:00.530
"Don't drop the soap."

00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:05.005
I held my head high and I just went about my day.

00:24:05.005 --> 00:24:07.180
It's who I was.

00:24:07.180 --> 00:24:12.340
I remember the RA came to me when all this was going on.

00:24:12.340 --> 00:24:14.080
I certainly challenged them,

00:24:14.080 --> 00:24:18.700
I think because they had a responsibility.

00:24:18.700 --> 00:24:20.230
They worked for the university.

00:24:20.230 --> 00:24:23.950
They had to maintain, whatever you want to call it,

00:24:23.950 --> 00:24:26.620
the culture, but they

00:24:26.620 --> 00:24:30.010
didn't necessarily agree with what we were doing.

00:24:30.010 --> 00:24:32.500
He came to me one time and said, "We've gotten complaints

00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:35.540
that you've altered your shower schedule."

00:24:35.760 --> 00:24:38.380
I was like, "What?"

00:24:38.380 --> 00:24:40.450
He says, "Yeah, you're now taking

00:24:40.450 --> 00:24:43.450
showers at different times during the day."

00:24:43.450 --> 00:24:47.530
I was like, "Do you want to see my class schedule?

00:24:47.530 --> 00:24:50.245
I have always had 8:00 AM classes.

00:24:50.245 --> 00:24:51.670
I have always gotten up.

00:24:51.670 --> 00:24:54.085
I have always showered at these times.

00:24:54.085 --> 00:24:55.990
I think it's just that they're more

00:24:55.990 --> 00:24:58.585
aware that I'm in the shower with them now."

00:24:58.585 --> 00:25:02.035
But yeah, to accuse me of adjusting my shower schedule,

00:25:02.035 --> 00:25:02.950
I don't know what he thought I was

00:25:02.950 --> 00:25:03.910
going to do in the shower.

00:25:03.910 --> 00:25:07.690
I was 5'9" and 110 pounds,

00:25:07.690 --> 00:25:10.405
what am I going to do to some guy in the shower?

00:25:10.405 --> 00:25:12.190
But that was the ignorance

00:25:12.190 --> 00:25:13.360
back then, and I mean ignorance,

00:25:13.360 --> 00:25:19.675
meaning lack of knowledge. They were just ignorant.

00:25:19.675 --> 00:25:22.700
They didn't know any better.

00:25:24.600 --> 00:25:28.810
I was living my life so they could see

00:25:28.810 --> 00:25:30.580
that a gay person is

00:25:30.580 --> 00:25:33.670
just a normal person out there and living their life,

00:25:33.670 --> 00:25:38.755
and being gay is just a small part of who I am.

00:25:38.755 --> 00:25:40.870
I was a student, I was a brother,

00:25:40.870 --> 00:25:43.639
I was a son,

00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:50.215
I was career-minded, and I happened to be gay.

00:25:50.215 --> 00:25:54.220
I never really thought of myself as an activist,

00:25:54.220 --> 00:25:59.575
I just was doing it because it was the right thing to do.

00:25:59.575 --> 00:26:01.420
We wanted equal rights.

00:26:01.420 --> 00:26:02.890
We wanted recognition.

00:26:02.890 --> 00:26:07.465
We're here. We don't want to take anybody's rights away,

00:26:07.465 --> 00:26:10.525
we just want the same ones that you have.

00:26:10.525 --> 00:26:12.700
It's like when marriage equality

00:26:12.700 --> 00:26:15.980
finally got through the Supreme Court.

00:26:16.620 --> 00:26:19.240
The CEO of the company that I worked

00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:22.570
for came up to me and said this whole marriage thing.

00:26:22.570 --> 00:26:25.300
[LAUGHTER] He goes, "Is it

00:26:25.300 --> 00:26:26.845
really about the word marriage

00:26:26.845 --> 00:26:28.750
or is it about the rights?"

00:26:28.750 --> 00:26:30.280
I said, "It's about the rights."

00:26:30.280 --> 00:26:31.315
You can call it a banana.

00:26:31.315 --> 00:26:33.040
I don't care what you call it.

00:26:33.040 --> 00:26:35.410
We deserve the same rights

00:26:35.410 --> 00:26:37.585
and legal protections that you get.

00:26:37.585 --> 00:26:39.490
He had said to me in an earlier

00:26:39.490 --> 00:26:41.140
conversation that he admired me at

00:26:41.140 --> 00:26:44.755
work because everybody knew I was gay.

00:26:44.755 --> 00:26:46.030
I didn't walk in the room and say, "Hello,

00:26:46.030 --> 00:26:48.175
I'm a gay person."

00:26:48.175 --> 00:26:50.365
They just assumed.

00:26:50.365 --> 00:26:51.910
I came to work and I did my job and I

00:26:51.910 --> 00:26:53.680
was very good at my job.

00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:56.840
He says, "You didn't flaunt it."

00:26:57.390 --> 00:27:01.135
I took a step back and I said,

00:27:01.135 --> 00:27:05.455
"You mean the way you flaunt it." He said "What?"

00:27:05.455 --> 00:27:08.965
I said, "Your wedding band, you're flaunting it.

00:27:08.965 --> 00:27:10.435
You're flaunting you're heterosexual.

00:27:10.435 --> 00:27:11.845
I don't have that right."

00:27:11.845 --> 00:27:13.510
I said I walk in your office,

00:27:13.510 --> 00:27:16.720
there's pictures of your wife and your kids.

00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:20.005
I can't put the picture of my partner in my office.

00:27:20.005 --> 00:27:24.380
I said, "So you flaunt your heterosexuality every day."

00:27:25.950 --> 00:27:28.360
Needless to say, I did have a picture of

00:27:28.360 --> 00:27:31.430
my partner in my office after that,

00:27:31.770 --> 00:27:34.090
and I'm proud to say I've been with my partner

00:27:34.090 --> 00:27:35.665
almost 29 years.

00:27:35.665 --> 00:27:38.570
We've been married almost four.

00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:41.110
Everyone said, "But what took you so long?"

00:27:41.110 --> 00:27:42.910
I said, "The Supreme Court."

00:27:42.910 --> 00:27:49.330
[LAUGHTER]

00:27:49.330 --> 00:27:52.300
January 16th, 1979.

00:27:52.300 --> 00:27:54.505
The Collegiate Times.

00:27:54.505 --> 00:27:57.040
We believe it is time that

00:27:57.040 --> 00:27:59.260
campus heterosexuals be given

00:27:59.260 --> 00:28:02.275
rights equal to those of homosexuals.

00:28:02.275 --> 00:28:04.210
We should not be discriminated

00:28:04.210 --> 00:28:06.595
against because of our sexual preference.

00:28:06.595 --> 00:28:10.610
We are referring to the dorm visitation policy.

00:28:12.030 --> 00:28:15.400
Heterosexuals have restricted visitation

00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:17.425
by members of the opposite sex,

00:28:17.425 --> 00:28:19.540
whereas homosexuals have unlimited

00:28:19.540 --> 00:28:22.060
visitation by members of the same sex.

00:28:22.060 --> 00:28:25.510
We do not feel that this is fair and propose a solution.

00:28:25.510 --> 00:28:27.520
We suggest that the university set up

00:28:27.520 --> 00:28:30.355
a special alternative lifestyle dorm,

00:28:30.355 --> 00:28:32.320
where homosexuals would be required

00:28:32.320 --> 00:28:34.525
to have roommates of the opposite sex,

00:28:34.525 --> 00:28:36.940
and room visits by members of the same sex

00:28:36.940 --> 00:28:39.295
could only be made during certain hours.

00:28:39.295 --> 00:28:41.200
The dorm should be painted pink,

00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:43.240
making it easily recognized and

00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:46.419
avoided by people of the normal lifestyle.

00:28:46.419 --> 00:28:49.930
Then again, maybe a better solution is for gays to just

00:28:49.930 --> 00:28:53.545
stay in the closet and consider themselves lucky.

00:28:53.545 --> 00:28:56.425
Gary Bray, Engineering, Freshmen.

00:28:56.425 --> 00:28:59.590
Kevin Hauschildt, Engineering, Freshman.

00:28:59.590 --> 00:29:02.020
Mike Gogol, Engineering, Freshman.

00:29:02.020 --> 00:29:04.735
Guy Kemmerly, Engineering, Freshman.

00:29:04.735 --> 00:29:07.690
Editor's note: This letter was accompanied by

00:29:07.690 --> 00:29:10.570
18 other signatures which could not be

00:29:10.570 --> 00:29:14.540
printed due to space limitations.

00:29:16.950 --> 00:29:22.150
My time here at Tech, I found me.

00:29:22.150 --> 00:29:25.150
I discovered who I was.

00:29:25.150 --> 00:29:27.970
I think my values

00:29:27.970 --> 00:29:30.295
and morals might have became more grounded.

00:29:30.295 --> 00:29:32.350
I had that at home,

00:29:32.350 --> 00:29:35.690
but it just became more clear.

00:29:35.930 --> 00:29:40.570
I think sometimes pride,

00:29:40.570 --> 00:29:43.180
whether it's gay pride or regular pride,

00:29:43.180 --> 00:29:44.800
is just all about showing

00:29:44.800 --> 00:29:48.115
up and just being your true self,

00:29:48.115 --> 00:29:50.845
doing the best that you can be,

00:29:50.845 --> 00:29:55.180
helping others, lifting each other up.

00:29:55.180 --> 00:29:57.820
To me, that's pride because somebody said something

00:29:57.820 --> 00:30:01.000
about gay pride parades and stuff like that.

00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:03.145
I said, "I understand them.

00:30:03.145 --> 00:30:04.720
It's not who I am.

00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:09.730
For me, gay pride is just showing up every day

00:30:09.730 --> 00:30:12.070
in everyday life and showing them that

00:30:12.070 --> 00:30:15.800
being gay is just a small part of who I am."

00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:21.410
When I came out to my dad,

00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:25.600
he was my primary parent because my mother had passed

00:30:25.600 --> 00:30:29.035
away and I had a step mother that I was not close with.

00:30:29.035 --> 00:30:30.760
My dad was my primary parent,

00:30:30.760 --> 00:30:33.505
so I came out to my dad when he asked,

00:30:33.505 --> 00:30:41.800
and then he went to

00:30:41.800 --> 00:30:43.780
my high school and had

00:30:43.780 --> 00:30:46.810
my whole high school schedule changed so I won't

00:30:46.810 --> 00:30:48.745
be in any classes with any of

00:30:48.745 --> 00:30:52.045
those gay friends that he had me disclose to him,

00:30:52.045 --> 00:30:55.015
if it's a friendly manipulation.

00:30:55.015 --> 00:30:58.225
He also went to my girlfriend's house

00:30:58.225 --> 00:31:00.010
and told her parents,

00:31:00.010 --> 00:31:02.785
who were extremely conservative.

00:31:02.785 --> 00:31:06.160
It very much affected that girlfriend

00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:07.870
negatively because she was not

00:31:07.870 --> 00:31:10.570
completely gay, she was bisexual.

00:31:10.570 --> 00:31:12.430
She was not out to them?

00:31:12.430 --> 00:31:14.020
She was not out to them,

00:31:14.020 --> 00:31:17.120
and my dad outed her.

00:31:18.780 --> 00:31:22.525
We were not a long-term relationship

00:31:22.525 --> 00:31:24.610
probably because of those stressors,

00:31:24.610 --> 00:31:27.280
and probably because she was bisexual.

00:31:27.280 --> 00:31:30.440
He made a mess of that.

00:31:31.350 --> 00:31:34.775
He's very authoritarian, policeman.

00:31:34.775 --> 00:31:39.359
But he took control and had me drop out of my classes.

00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:41.010
I'm very glad I never

00:31:41.010 --> 00:31:43.950
mentioned Sueann's name to him as one of

00:31:43.950 --> 00:31:46.080
my gay friends because she is

00:31:46.080 --> 00:31:49.270
the friend who drove me to Virginia Tech,

00:31:49.270 --> 00:31:52.180
the girlfriend, and I didn't mention her name.

00:31:52.180 --> 00:31:54.670
[LAUGHTER]

00:31:54.670 --> 00:31:55.885
That was intentional?

00:31:55.885 --> 00:31:57.520
I think that was, maybe.

00:31:57.520 --> 00:32:01.089
Yeah. Maybe. It probably was,

00:32:01.089 --> 00:32:02.770
for how it worked out.

00:32:02.770 --> 00:32:04.870
Also you said, "When he

00:32:04.870 --> 00:32:08.065
asked," about coming out to your father.

00:32:08.065 --> 00:32:13.810
Yes. He had some clues.

00:32:13.810 --> 00:32:16.570
My father was published in

00:32:16.570 --> 00:32:20.230
police journals and the main topic he was

00:32:20.230 --> 00:32:22.735
published in was why

00:32:22.735 --> 00:32:27.580
these homosexuals should not be in the force,

00:32:27.580 --> 00:32:30.610
so I was his nice surprise.

00:32:30.610 --> 00:32:36.040
[LAUGHTER] Big Hispanic family;

00:32:36.040 --> 00:32:38.260
there's a lot of Hispanic lesbians,

00:32:38.260 --> 00:32:41.740
but at the time I came out,

00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:43.540
I don't think it was as popular,

00:32:43.540 --> 00:32:46.795
that that culture would

00:32:46.795 --> 00:32:51.670
not follow the traditional path of lifestyle.

00:32:51.670 --> 00:32:54.025
My father was a tough one.

00:32:54.025 --> 00:32:57.790
My father was extremely tough.

00:32:57.790 --> 00:33:00.910
When I came to Tech,

00:33:00.910 --> 00:33:03.550
and the way my father did with

00:33:03.550 --> 00:33:05.620
both my brother and I when did

00:33:05.620 --> 00:33:10.510
something bad as a child.

00:33:10.510 --> 00:33:12.550
If Peter did something bad,

00:33:12.550 --> 00:33:14.125
his love was guitar,

00:33:14.125 --> 00:33:17.095
so the guitar would be taken away.

00:33:17.095 --> 00:33:20.155
I don't know what they did for me,

00:33:20.155 --> 00:33:23.410
because my brother was much more bad than me

00:33:23.410 --> 00:33:26.020
[LAUGHTER] and had his guitar taken away a lot.

00:33:26.020 --> 00:33:31.000
[LAUGHTER] Although I had

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:33.370
come out to him and they sent

00:33:33.370 --> 00:33:36.175
me to my stepmother's shrink,

00:33:36.175 --> 00:33:38.470
and this is just around

00:33:38.470 --> 00:33:43.240
the time the diagnostic manual for psychiatry

00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:51.189
changed homosexuality from disorder to more normalcy,

00:33:51.189 --> 00:33:53.770
which was a big deal in psychiatry.

00:33:53.770 --> 00:33:55.270
She sends me to her

00:33:55.270 --> 00:33:58.750
shrink because they're hoping it's a phase.

00:33:58.750 --> 00:34:01.840
They're hoping it's a big phase.

00:34:01.840 --> 00:34:03.820
The shrink, thank goodness,

00:34:03.820 --> 00:34:06.085
said, "I don't think you have a problem.

00:34:06.085 --> 00:34:10.010
It's your parents that have some things to work out."

00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:13.390
He was a very good turning point

00:34:13.390 --> 00:34:15.920
in my acceptance of myself.

00:34:18.180 --> 00:34:22.240
But that was a wonderful experience for us.

00:34:22.240 --> 00:34:23.755
I think we felt brave,

00:34:23.755 --> 00:34:28.870
and I think we felt an opportunity to

00:34:28.870 --> 00:34:31.150
share something about ourselves that we

00:34:31.150 --> 00:34:35.605
valued and help define ourselves while we were speaking.

00:34:35.605 --> 00:34:39.290
I think that was really fantastic.

00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:55.945
January 16th, 1979. Collegiate Times.

00:34:55.945 --> 00:34:58.390
The Gay Student Alliance stated

00:34:58.390 --> 00:35:00.070
that to wear jeans on Denim Day,

00:35:00.070 --> 00:35:03.805
Wednesday the 17th, will signify support of gay rights.

00:35:03.805 --> 00:35:07.195
We consider the term "gay rights" ambiguous.

00:35:07.195 --> 00:35:10.330
Will wearing jeans show individual gayness or will

00:35:10.330 --> 00:35:11.800
wearing jeans be interpreted

00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:13.810
as a support of individuality,

00:35:13.810 --> 00:35:16.645
in this case, expressed through gay practices?

00:35:16.645 --> 00:35:19.240
Our belief is that wearing denim on Denim Day

00:35:19.240 --> 00:35:21.895
will express our support of individuality.

00:35:21.895 --> 00:35:24.100
Therefore, we support the gay's right

00:35:24.100 --> 00:35:25.900
to believe that homosexuality is right

00:35:25.900 --> 00:35:27.790
for him while still believing that

00:35:27.790 --> 00:35:30.070
homosexuality is wrong for us.

00:35:30.070 --> 00:35:31.750
Robert J. Wendt, Fisheries.

00:35:31.750 --> 00:35:34.070
Dan Oakley, Geology.

00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:38.965
January 19th, 1979.

00:35:38.965 --> 00:35:42.160
Collegiate Times. To the editor.

00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:45.460
On behalf of all the straight men on campus,

00:35:45.460 --> 00:35:47.800
we would like to thank the Gay Student Alliance

00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:49.075
for holding Denim Day.

00:35:49.075 --> 00:35:51.550
We haven't seen so many well-dressed women

00:35:51.550 --> 00:35:54.205
in skirts since we don't know when.

00:35:54.205 --> 00:35:58.585
Bob Lunney, Cass Lawrence, and Charlie McCauley.

00:35:58.585 --> 00:36:00.595
To the editor.

00:36:00.595 --> 00:36:04.510
Just a thought: if this week is Gay Awareness Week,

00:36:04.510 --> 00:36:05.770
why was it that

00:36:05.770 --> 00:36:08.710
the Gay Student Alliance flyers advertising Denim

00:36:08.710 --> 00:36:13.180
Day were distributed in my dorm between 2:00 and 3:00 AM?

00:36:13.180 --> 00:36:15.700
Was the GSA representative

00:36:15.700 --> 00:36:18.310
or supporter ashamed of something?

00:36:18.310 --> 00:36:22.070
John Wiley, Junior, Communications.

00:36:34.560 --> 00:36:36.955
I think in my case though,

00:36:36.955 --> 00:36:38.950
it didn't come out of a healthy place [LAUGHTER] I

00:36:38.950 --> 00:36:46.600
came from military family.

00:36:46.600 --> 00:36:48.145
My father was a lifer,

00:36:48.145 --> 00:36:53.455
he was a marine, and Catholic,

00:36:53.455 --> 00:36:55.495
and Cuban, and I was the firstborn son.

00:36:55.495 --> 00:36:58.540
I had a lot of baggage that I had to throw off.

00:36:58.540 --> 00:37:01.120
For me, the whole activism thing

00:37:01.120 --> 00:37:04.600
that period was survival.

00:37:04.600 --> 00:37:07.180
It was not an acknowledgment.

00:37:07.180 --> 00:37:10.645
It was I'm here, I'm not going to go away.

00:37:10.645 --> 00:37:12.310
I'm here, I'm queer, I'm not going to go away.

00:37:12.310 --> 00:37:16.690
It was more like stepping

00:37:16.690 --> 00:37:19.750
into an identity or stepping into my own identity,

00:37:19.750 --> 00:37:21.535
and this was part of it.

00:37:21.535 --> 00:37:24.940
But I'm really convinced I would have been dead five,

00:37:24.940 --> 00:37:28.840
seven years if I had stayed in that mindset.

00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:33.069
There was so negative and so repressive.

00:37:33.069 --> 00:37:36.190
When I got the invite to speak to a class,

00:37:36.190 --> 00:37:41.155
it was a sociology class in the winter of '77,

00:37:41.155 --> 00:37:43.045
somebody word of mouth,

00:37:43.045 --> 00:37:44.650
and this professor calls me,

00:37:44.650 --> 00:37:47.080
wanted me to come in and speak to

00:37:47.080 --> 00:37:51.350
his social deviance class.

00:37:53.100 --> 00:37:55.540
Today we'd say that's a little offensive,

00:37:55.540 --> 00:37:57.700
but at the time was more like,

00:37:57.700 --> 00:38:01.340
well, I guess that's what gay lifestyles come under.

00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:07.495
My experience of that was so empowering.

00:38:07.495 --> 00:38:09.310
I didn't have to do anything. I just showed

00:38:09.310 --> 00:38:11.260
up and I answer questions.

00:38:11.260 --> 00:38:16.735
It was a sociology review class.

00:38:16.735 --> 00:38:18.400
It's probably about 150,

00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:20.510
200 people in the room.

00:38:20.850 --> 00:38:23.560
It was liberating because they were

00:38:23.560 --> 00:38:26.380
expecting a freak and I wasn't a freak.

00:38:26.380 --> 00:38:30.440
I was just myself.

00:38:30.510 --> 00:38:33.910
I think just by showing up,

00:38:33.910 --> 00:38:37.495
I helped to dispel a lot of their stereotypes.

00:38:37.495 --> 00:38:40.120
For me, it was

00:38:40.120 --> 00:38:45.860
acknowledging and it was an ego trip at first.

00:38:46.170 --> 00:38:49.240
The student group evolved around

00:38:49.240 --> 00:38:52.165
that time and it was mostly the women.

00:38:52.165 --> 00:38:55.825
Nancy had taken the lead and Sueann.

00:38:55.825 --> 00:38:57.565
There were few people that pop out of here.

00:38:57.565 --> 00:39:00.610
Then they were a few guys but they didn't really

00:39:00.610 --> 00:39:04.450
want to be out there.

00:39:04.450 --> 00:39:06.280
I identified more with the lesbians.

00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:09.040
[LAUGHTER] I had to admit and to this day

00:39:09.040 --> 00:39:12.590
really a lot of

00:39:12.590 --> 00:39:15.880
my values and where I come from and everything else.

00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:17.860
But that's how it started for me.

00:39:17.860 --> 00:39:21.819
It was an invite to speak to a sociology class.

00:39:21.819 --> 00:39:23.410
They got repeated and then I

00:39:23.410 --> 00:39:25.600
would bring people with me and that kind of thing.

00:39:25.600 --> 00:39:28.450
But my parents who had

00:39:28.450 --> 00:39:30.820
told me nothing gay when you go off to college,

00:39:30.820 --> 00:39:33.190
we don't want to hear or see anything.

00:39:33.190 --> 00:39:35.230
My mom called me that weekend I was

00:39:35.230 --> 00:39:37.030
trying to make my mind up about speaking to this class.

00:39:37.030 --> 00:39:39.310
She calls me and she tells me, "Well,

00:39:39.310 --> 00:39:41.020
if you do it, I'm dishonoring

00:39:41.020 --> 00:39:44.570
you," and she did for a couple of years.

00:39:44.670 --> 00:39:46.720
I said, "Well, gosh, thanks for

00:39:46.720 --> 00:39:47.950
calling mom because you really helped."

00:39:47.950 --> 00:39:55.510
[LAUGHTER] That's my attitude was like really, so for me,

00:39:55.510 --> 00:39:59.290
it was more a psychological necessity

00:39:59.290 --> 00:40:00.685
that I get up and I speak,

00:40:00.685 --> 00:40:02.020
I be there, I be present,

00:40:02.020 --> 00:40:07.330
I be that exist and not to stay invisible.

00:40:07.330 --> 00:40:09.370
For me, that's what it was.

00:40:09.370 --> 00:40:11.005
I'd say with Nancy,

00:40:11.005 --> 00:40:12.700
this is a total projection on my part,

00:40:12.700 --> 00:40:17.305
she was much healthier in who she was.

00:40:17.305 --> 00:40:25.780
For me, it was a journey to find myself and I was 18,

00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:31.720
19, 20 years old and in that sense,

00:40:31.720 --> 00:40:32.950
it was extremely positive.

00:40:32.950 --> 00:40:38.920
[NOISE] It was a few schools

00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:40.780
that had done it up to that point in

00:40:40.780 --> 00:40:43.555
the US and so we were not the first.

00:40:43.555 --> 00:40:44.980
But at the same time we thought, oh,

00:40:44.980 --> 00:40:47.155
that's a great idea.

00:40:47.155 --> 00:40:51.400
It's something easy to do and I think we had

00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:56.725
a whole week of activities.

00:40:56.725 --> 00:40:58.510
It wasn't just a Denim Day.

00:40:58.510 --> 00:41:01.280
I think there was a round table.

00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:04.960
There's a number of

00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:05.980
different things that happen in a week,

00:41:05.980 --> 00:41:12.535
but that was the big piece of it if you will.

00:41:12.535 --> 00:41:14.620
I think it might have been a Monday or

00:41:14.620 --> 00:41:17.540
Tuesday and it was,

00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:25.180
for me the day itself was less dramatic than

00:41:25.180 --> 00:41:28.630
the night before when

00:41:28.630 --> 00:41:31.300
we had to put the flyers underneath the doors.

00:41:31.300 --> 00:41:36.100
For me, when I remember that day, that's what I remember.

00:41:36.100 --> 00:41:41.080
I remember starting at the top of Lee Hall.

00:41:41.080 --> 00:41:43.690
I believe it was with Steve Free,

00:41:43.690 --> 00:41:45.370
I believe he was the other person we were teamed

00:41:45.370 --> 00:41:49.970
up and I don't remember many of the names.

00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:54.430
We put flyers under the door and I fully expect it

00:41:54.430 --> 00:42:00.370
to be verbally accosted.

00:42:00.370 --> 00:42:02.470
Maybe physically.

00:42:02.470 --> 00:42:05.125
I had all these ideas and

00:42:05.125 --> 00:42:09.670
when I stepped out of that building after 20,

00:42:09.670 --> 00:42:14.140
25 minutes and putting these fires under the doors.

00:42:14.140 --> 00:42:18.685
I was a different person because I was so afraid.

00:42:18.685 --> 00:42:20.950
We all were really we didn't know what to expect.

00:42:20.950 --> 00:42:22.270
[NOISE] As we're putting

00:42:22.270 --> 00:42:24.070
these flyers and I just fully expected the doors to fly

00:42:24.070 --> 00:42:27.340
open and guys to come [NOISE] at us,

00:42:27.340 --> 00:42:28.465
but they didn't do that.

00:42:28.465 --> 00:42:30.070
There were a few guys that

00:42:30.070 --> 00:42:32.005
would open up their doors was an all-male dorm.

00:42:32.005 --> 00:42:35.080
They would open their doors and look out to see.

00:42:35.080 --> 00:42:39.805
Okay, that's a fag or that's a gay person.

00:42:39.805 --> 00:42:45.924
But none of this shouting or threatening,

00:42:45.924 --> 00:42:48.235
and the few that did

00:42:48.235 --> 00:42:51.100
stick their head out and make themselves known.

00:42:51.100 --> 00:42:53.485
I just want to turn around and stop like, okay,

00:42:53.485 --> 00:42:56.035
what are you going to do? I was bigger.

00:42:56.035 --> 00:42:58.705
I was bigger now, but I mean,

00:42:58.705 --> 00:43:02.080
I was a big guy and people didn't mess with me.

00:43:02.080 --> 00:43:04.820
I think that had something to do with it.

00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:07.150
But I got to tell you,

00:43:07.150 --> 00:43:08.440
the person who walked out of that building was

00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:11.065
a different person than started that process.

00:43:11.065 --> 00:43:13.120
I took that with me.

00:43:13.120 --> 00:43:17.890
To this day, if we're in a mixed group and someone

00:43:17.890 --> 00:43:19.900
makes an off-color remark because they

00:43:19.900 --> 00:43:22.630
don't really know. I make sure they know.

00:43:22.630 --> 00:43:28.330
But I don't shy away from just saying your own truth.

00:43:28.330 --> 00:43:32.350
But there was quite a bit of outrage the next day.

00:43:32.350 --> 00:43:35.470
But for me, it was the night

00:43:35.470 --> 00:43:38.530
before and whatever happened that week

00:43:38.530 --> 00:43:41.905
was [LAUGHTER] anticlimactic because

00:43:41.905 --> 00:43:45.715
I felt so empowered by

00:43:45.715 --> 00:43:51.010
the act of just

00:43:51.010 --> 00:43:54.850
being out and then letting people know about this event.

00:43:54.850 --> 00:43:56.350
Of course, pissed off everybody

00:43:56.350 --> 00:43:58.060
because they only had jeans I

00:43:58.060 --> 00:44:01.360
wore jeans today in honor of that event,

00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:04.930
but they really resented not

00:44:04.930 --> 00:44:08.500
having the choice to

00:44:08.500 --> 00:44:11.470
wear their usual costume which was jeans.

00:44:11.470 --> 00:44:18.550
[LAUGHTER]

00:44:18.550 --> 00:44:26.660
I don't know, besides the fact of remembering

00:44:27.120 --> 00:44:31.780
and wanting the young people coming up now to

00:44:31.780 --> 00:44:35.080
know the past so

00:44:35.080 --> 00:44:37.480
that they can not make the same mistakes,

00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:42.100
hopefully, and appreciate what they're enjoying now.

00:44:42.100 --> 00:44:50.035
But I think the other piece of that would be,

00:44:50.035 --> 00:44:52.045
given what's happening now

00:44:52.045 --> 00:44:54.580
in the world, especially in the US,

00:44:54.580 --> 00:45:00.370
how important it is to resist in any way that you

00:45:00.370 --> 00:45:03.490
can against these forces which I

00:45:03.490 --> 00:45:07.255
would call the deplorables.

00:45:07.255 --> 00:45:09.760
Sorry. Sometimes it does feel like that

00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:14.185
but the folks that will judge you,

00:45:14.185 --> 00:45:16.225
people that would put you in a box,

00:45:16.225 --> 00:45:19.660
people that would kill

00:45:19.660 --> 00:45:23.440
you really for just being who you are,

00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.605
not make your cake because you're gay.

00:45:26.605 --> 00:45:32.630
I mean, that is still alive but at the same time,

00:45:33.060 --> 00:45:35.905
it's important for each of us,

00:45:35.905 --> 00:45:43.240
in our own way, to resist that limitation and

00:45:43.240 --> 00:45:46.630
that reinforcement that shows up in our environment all

00:45:46.630 --> 00:45:51.920
the time, the unspoken.

00:45:52.830 --> 00:45:57.760
I guess I would say it's now as

00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:02.485
important or if not more to be present

00:46:02.485 --> 00:46:07.000
and resist in ways that you're comfortable in

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:12.400
and don't let people put you in a box.

00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:18.370
[LAUGHTER] You know, you're a gift.

00:46:18.370 --> 00:46:20.110
We are each a gift.

00:46:20.110 --> 00:46:24.620
In our craziness, we are all a gift. I see it that way.

00:46:29.100 --> 00:46:32.410
At the time he was a student,

00:46:32.410 --> 00:46:38.335
Andrew Alvarez had a different name, George Alvarez.

00:46:38.335 --> 00:46:44.260
Collegiate Times, April 10th 1979.

00:46:44.260 --> 00:46:47.200
To the editor. In response to

00:46:47.200 --> 00:46:50.095
Mike Johnson's letter on the March 30th issue,

00:46:50.095 --> 00:46:51.550
in which he very clearly

00:46:51.550 --> 00:46:53.605
spells out the will of God for us,

00:46:53.605 --> 00:46:57.070
I wish to remind Mr. Johnson that he forgot one fact,

00:46:57.070 --> 00:46:59.110
God is in each of us.

00:46:59.110 --> 00:47:01.570
Gay people and non-gay people alike.

00:47:01.570 --> 00:47:03.895
Jesus, the son of the above God,

00:47:03.895 --> 00:47:06.445
never said word one about sex.

00:47:06.445 --> 00:47:08.650
You know, that filthy human activity.

00:47:08.650 --> 00:47:11.530
Further, Mike, we're told in Matthew that when

00:47:11.530 --> 00:47:14.710
asked the most important commands in the laws of Moses,

00:47:14.710 --> 00:47:16.675
Jesus replied the first being,

00:47:16.675 --> 00:47:20.080
love the Lord your God and the second most important,

00:47:20.080 --> 00:47:23.080
love your neighbor as much as you love yourself.

00:47:23.080 --> 00:47:25.870
It's my opinion that we need to expand

00:47:25.870 --> 00:47:27.700
the context with which we view

00:47:27.700 --> 00:47:29.935
love and sexuality for everyone.

00:47:29.935 --> 00:47:32.440
Men can love other men and women

00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:33.880
other women with or

00:47:33.880 --> 00:47:36.415
without the physical expression of that love.

00:47:36.415 --> 00:47:38.110
Contrary to popular myth,

00:47:38.110 --> 00:47:40.645
gays are not total sexual beings.

00:47:40.645 --> 00:47:42.880
Further, as sex and love-making

00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.040
are not solely procreative acts,

00:47:45.040 --> 00:47:46.690
it's time we viewed sex as

00:47:46.690 --> 00:47:48.925
the creative expression of the person.

00:47:48.925 --> 00:47:51.070
Every person's needs are different.

00:47:51.070 --> 00:47:53.575
Gays are not creatures from space,

00:47:53.575 --> 00:47:55.840
they live and breathe a lot like you

00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:58.180
all around you. Who knows?

00:47:58.180 --> 00:47:59.710
Perhaps you have friends who are

00:47:59.710 --> 00:48:02.290
gay and hiding, oh my God.

00:48:02.290 --> 00:48:04.960
Who aren't ready yet to deal with

00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.660
your distorted thinking about what gay is.

00:48:07.660 --> 00:48:10.540
To set the record straight, so to speak,

00:48:10.540 --> 00:48:13.450
gayness is the ability and desire to love

00:48:13.450 --> 00:48:15.700
and physically express the love

00:48:15.700 --> 00:48:17.575
for someone of the same gender.

00:48:17.575 --> 00:48:22.040
Amen. George Alvarez, International Studies.

00:48:22.710 --> 00:48:28.465
April 13th, 1979. To the editor.

00:48:28.465 --> 00:48:31.390
After reading the editorial "Will of God" today,

00:48:31.390 --> 00:48:32.800
I was commenting to myself

00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:34.270
about how all the author had to

00:48:34.270 --> 00:48:37.690
say was a bunch of crap, malarkey, et cetera.

00:48:37.690 --> 00:48:40.610
Then signed at the end, to my dismay,

00:48:40.610 --> 00:48:42.330
was with my name,

00:48:42.330 --> 00:48:44.720
that's right, my name.

00:48:44.720 --> 00:48:46.210
The purpose of this article is to

00:48:46.210 --> 00:48:47.590
redeem myself in the eyes of

00:48:47.590 --> 00:48:49.090
those Virginia Tech students who may

00:48:49.090 --> 00:48:51.595
confuse me with the author of that letter.

00:48:51.595 --> 00:48:54.160
I am not a faggot nor do I even

00:48:54.160 --> 00:48:57.025
condone such an attitude of that lifestyle.

00:48:57.025 --> 00:49:00.580
George L. Alvarez, I have had enough.

00:49:00.580 --> 00:49:02.740
After being harassed by my banker about

00:49:02.740 --> 00:49:05.380
a bad check passed by the Gay Student Alliance,

00:49:05.380 --> 00:49:07.375
written to you and credited to me,

00:49:07.375 --> 00:49:09.160
receiving letters from grandmothers

00:49:09.160 --> 00:49:10.555
I don't know and now this,

00:49:10.555 --> 00:49:12.745
I must demand that it all end.

00:49:12.745 --> 00:49:14.440
George L. Alvarez, get

00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:16.780
back in the closet before you ruin me.

00:49:16.780 --> 00:49:20.600
George E. Alvarez, Accounting.

00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:28.645
April 13th, 1979, Collegiate Times. To the editor.

00:49:28.645 --> 00:49:31.210
This is in response to the letter which appeared in

00:49:31.210 --> 00:49:34.375
the April 10th issue of the CT by George Alvarez.

00:49:34.375 --> 00:49:36.580
Mr. Alvarez, we commend you for looking to

00:49:36.580 --> 00:49:39.220
the Bible as the word of God as your authority.

00:49:39.220 --> 00:49:41.980
Unfortunately, you have passed by many points in

00:49:41.980 --> 00:49:42.910
scripture which seem to

00:49:42.910 --> 00:49:44.695
contradict statements in your letter.

00:49:44.695 --> 00:49:46.870
The first mistake you make is the statement,

00:49:46.870 --> 00:49:48.400
God is in everybody.

00:49:48.400 --> 00:49:50.170
According to the Bible, Mr. Alvarez,

00:49:50.170 --> 00:49:51.730
this is clearly not the case.

00:49:51.730 --> 00:49:53.830
You see, God could not exist in everybody,

00:49:53.830 --> 00:49:55.450
indeed in anybody because we are

00:49:55.450 --> 00:49:57.955
all sinners, Romans 3:23.

00:49:57.955 --> 00:50:00.310
The payment which God has set forth for sin

00:50:00.310 --> 00:50:02.560
is death, Romans 6:23.

00:50:02.560 --> 00:50:04.630
Fortunately, he sent Jesus Christ

00:50:04.630 --> 00:50:06.430
to pay this penalty for us.

00:50:06.430 --> 00:50:08.080
God now only exist in

00:50:08.080 --> 00:50:09.940
those persons who have asked Jesus to

00:50:09.940 --> 00:50:11.530
come into their hearts and pay

00:50:11.530 --> 00:50:13.840
their penalty for sin, John 1:12.

00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:15.880
We could not appear before God on

00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:17.560
our own because we are sinners,

00:50:17.560 --> 00:50:19.030
but Christ represents those

00:50:19.030 --> 00:50:20.905
who are willing to be led by him.

00:50:20.905 --> 00:50:22.345
You see, Mr. Alvarez,

00:50:22.345 --> 00:50:23.740
a person is only born of

00:50:23.740 --> 00:50:26.530
God if he makes a decision to be born of God.

00:50:26.530 --> 00:50:28.480
Just because you are born an American and a

00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:30.880
non-Jew doesn't mean you're born a Christian.

00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:32.770
Therefore, we doubt many gays

00:50:32.770 --> 00:50:34.540
are born of the same God we are.

00:50:34.540 --> 00:50:36.445
The second point we'd like to mention

00:50:36.445 --> 00:50:38.620
is that Jesus did speak about sex.

00:50:38.620 --> 00:50:41.619
If you turn to Matthew 5:27- 29,

00:50:41.619 --> 00:50:43.270
you can clearly see that Jesus did

00:50:43.270 --> 00:50:45.010
indeed speak about sex and that

00:50:45.010 --> 00:50:48.700
his advice is that if your eye causes you to sin by lust,

00:50:48.700 --> 00:50:50.140
it would be better for you to pluck it

00:50:50.140 --> 00:50:51.820
out than to continue sinning.

00:50:51.820 --> 00:50:54.040
Speaking of sin, Mr. Alvarez,

00:50:54.040 --> 00:50:55.600
this may surprise you but the Bible

00:50:55.600 --> 00:50:57.580
does speak about homosexuality.

00:50:57.580 --> 00:51:00.190
In Leviticus 18:22-29,

00:51:00.190 --> 00:51:03.445
homosexuality is spoken of as another word for sin,

00:51:03.445 --> 00:51:04.990
an offense against the Lord.

00:51:04.990 --> 00:51:06.760
You can't argue, Mr. Alvarez,

00:51:06.760 --> 00:51:08.230
that the Old Testament is outdated

00:51:08.230 --> 00:51:09.790
on this point or doesn't speak

00:51:09.790 --> 00:51:10.930
to us today as much as

00:51:10.930 --> 00:51:13.105
the New Testament because God doesn't change.

00:51:13.105 --> 00:51:14.740
He considers a sin today with

00:51:14.740 --> 00:51:17.725
the same attitude he did 5,000 years ago.

00:51:17.725 --> 00:51:19.540
If you read through the verse 29,

00:51:19.540 --> 00:51:22.330
the penalty for homosexuality and sodomy was that

00:51:22.330 --> 00:51:23.800
a person be cut off from the people

00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:25.480
to cleanse them from any evil.

00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:27.220
Now, we don't argue that we should

00:51:27.220 --> 00:51:29.560
shut off homosexuals from

00:51:29.560 --> 00:51:31.510
society but we don't think God

00:51:31.510 --> 00:51:34.060
wants us to condone their behavior in the least.

00:51:34.060 --> 00:51:36.880
Another good example of God's view of homosexuality and

00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:38.230
sodomy is found in

00:51:38.230 --> 00:51:40.150
the account of the destruction of Sodom,

00:51:40.150 --> 00:51:42.115
where do you think the word sodomy comes from?

00:51:42.115 --> 00:51:44.455
And Gomorrah, Genesis 18 and 19,

00:51:44.455 --> 00:51:47.515
which God utterly destroyed because of their immorality.

00:51:47.515 --> 00:51:50.365
We agree that gays need to be loved just like anyone else

00:51:50.365 --> 00:51:53.740
but it is possible to love the sinner and hate the sin.

00:51:53.740 --> 00:51:56.725
God has been doing it ever since man's fall into sin.

00:51:56.725 --> 00:51:59.965
Mr. Alvarez, we submit for your consideration that

00:51:59.965 --> 00:52:01.630
Mr. Johnson is not as ignorant

00:52:01.630 --> 00:52:03.445
of human nature as you may think.

00:52:03.445 --> 00:52:05.800
You are right in saying that whatever occurs in

00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:08.170
nature is natural and according to the Bible,

00:52:08.170 --> 00:52:10.525
the natural thing for man to do is to sin.

00:52:10.525 --> 00:52:12.820
Romans 1:18-32 speaks about

00:52:12.820 --> 00:52:14.560
our progression of sin and ends

00:52:14.560 --> 00:52:16.300
in verse 32 by saying that we

00:52:16.300 --> 00:52:18.625
as humans take pleasure in sin.

00:52:18.625 --> 00:52:22.195
11 Thessalonians 2:11 and 12 also speaks of this,

00:52:22.195 --> 00:52:25.180
sin is fun but just because it is fun and

00:52:25.180 --> 00:52:28.345
natural doesn't mean that it is necessarily right.

00:52:28.345 --> 00:52:30.310
We can rationalize our ways into

00:52:30.310 --> 00:52:32.230
or out of anything and ultimately,

00:52:32.230 --> 00:52:35.290
it doesn't really matter how man views homosexuality.

00:52:35.290 --> 00:52:38.245
The most important aspect is how God views it.

00:52:38.245 --> 00:52:39.880
Mr. Alvarez, let us encourage

00:52:39.880 --> 00:52:41.545
you to consider this last point.

00:52:41.545 --> 00:52:44.500
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes but

00:52:44.500 --> 00:52:47.680
the Lord ponders the heart, Proverbs 21:2.

00:52:47.680 --> 00:52:49.945
Mary Siewert, Junior, Biology.

00:52:49.945 --> 00:52:52.975
Betsy Green, Sophomore, Family and Child Development.

00:52:52.975 --> 00:52:56.180
Roseanne Gunter, Junior, Biology.

00:52:56.510 --> 00:52:59.655
January 16th, 1979.

00:52:59.655 --> 00:53:03.825
Point counterpoint on Denim day and day awareness.

00:53:03.825 --> 00:53:06.570
Editorial, "Gays Subject to

00:53:06.570 --> 00:53:09.960
Repression and Discrimination," by Sherry Wood.

00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:12.210
The question most people are asking about

00:53:12.210 --> 00:53:13.830
the gay student alliance is Denim day

00:53:13.830 --> 00:53:15.825
on Wednesday is, why denim?

00:53:15.825 --> 00:53:17.654
Denim is the tech uniform.

00:53:17.654 --> 00:53:18.840
Why not wear something like

00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:21.300
a red scarf to show you support gay rights?

00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:23.280
I believe that the GSAs reasoning

00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:25.365
lies somewhat deeper than the obvious.

00:53:25.365 --> 00:53:27.390
Appearances indicate that the GSA

00:53:27.390 --> 00:53:28.680
is trying to take advantage of

00:53:28.680 --> 00:53:30.750
the tech inclination to wear denim so that on

00:53:30.750 --> 00:53:31.890
Wednesday it will look like

00:53:31.890 --> 00:53:33.645
a lot of people support gay rights.

00:53:33.645 --> 00:53:36.465
But I do not think this is the GSA's purpose.

00:53:36.465 --> 00:53:39.795
I think the GSA is trying for a more profound point.

00:53:39.795 --> 00:53:42.240
The majority of tech students wear denim.

00:53:42.240 --> 00:53:44.370
It seems that many students resent

00:53:44.370 --> 00:53:46.800
the GSAs ability in this case to stifle or

00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:48.180
alter their prerogative to wear

00:53:48.180 --> 00:53:51.449
jeans and expect an accepted part of their lifestyle.

00:53:51.449 --> 00:53:53.445
I think the GSAs point is this.

00:53:53.445 --> 00:53:55.890
If the tech community is upset because for

00:53:55.890 --> 00:53:59.129
one day its wardrobe choices stifled by the GSA,

00:53:59.129 --> 00:54:00.690
how should gay students feel when

00:54:00.690 --> 00:54:03.540
every day their sexuality choice is stifled?

00:54:03.540 --> 00:54:06.030
Wardrobe choice is a trivial matter

00:54:06.030 --> 00:54:08.175
when compared to choice of sexuality.

00:54:08.175 --> 00:54:10.410
One day of repression is trivial when

00:54:10.410 --> 00:54:12.630
compared to countless days of oppression.

00:54:12.630 --> 00:54:14.430
I think the GSA is trying to

00:54:14.430 --> 00:54:16.395
make students get a taste of oppression.

00:54:16.395 --> 00:54:18.725
From the looks of the letters to the editor we've gotten,

00:54:18.725 --> 00:54:20.210
tech students don't like it.

00:54:20.210 --> 00:54:22.025
Well, think, people, think.

00:54:22.025 --> 00:54:25.340
You are persons human beings who do not enjoy repression.

00:54:25.340 --> 00:54:27.050
Gays are persons, human beings

00:54:27.050 --> 00:54:28.945
who also do not enjoy repression.

00:54:28.945 --> 00:54:31.020
Most of us are undeniably repressing

00:54:31.020 --> 00:54:32.580
gay person's rights to express

00:54:32.580 --> 00:54:34.515
even nominally their sexuality.

00:54:34.515 --> 00:54:35.850
You don't like repression.

00:54:35.850 --> 00:54:37.890
You don't like being told what to wear.

00:54:37.890 --> 00:54:39.660
What can I say? You want to

00:54:39.660 --> 00:54:41.520
have freedom, but you don't want to share it.

00:54:41.520 --> 00:54:43.830
That's just plain ignorant and unfair.

00:54:43.830 --> 00:54:45.585
Even the Bible says it best,

00:54:45.585 --> 00:54:47.280
"Do unto others as you would have them do

00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.815
unto you." Sherry Lynn Wood.

00:54:49.815 --> 00:54:53.580
I don't really remember protest per se,

00:54:53.580 --> 00:54:57.690
but what I did notice when I went to class that day

00:54:57.690 --> 00:55:02.820
was that there was a noticeable absence of denim.

00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:05.745
In fact, I would say that

00:55:05.745 --> 00:55:10.050
maybe 20 or 30 percent

00:55:10.050 --> 00:55:13.065
of people wore denim instead of 90 percent.

00:55:13.065 --> 00:55:17.200
That was a pretty big statement in and of itself.

00:55:18.380 --> 00:55:20.520
Speaking of fashion, do you happen to

00:55:20.520 --> 00:55:22.215
remember what you wore on Denim Day?

00:55:22.215 --> 00:55:25.919
I do. I wore jeans because it was January,

00:55:25.919 --> 00:55:28.965
so it was cold and I had a denim vest.

00:55:28.965 --> 00:55:32.025
I had two pieces of denim on.

00:55:32.025 --> 00:55:35.205
My first-class that day was

00:55:35.205 --> 00:55:39.110
philosophy class, existentialism, and phenomenology.

00:55:39.110 --> 00:55:40.850
I walked into the class,

00:55:40.850 --> 00:55:42.835
sat in my usual seat, took off my coat.

00:55:42.835 --> 00:55:45.180
A guy who had been sitting across

00:55:45.180 --> 00:55:47.670
from me through most of the other classes came in.

00:55:47.670 --> 00:55:48.930
He takes off his coat,

00:55:48.930 --> 00:55:50.295
he sits down next to me.

00:55:50.295 --> 00:55:53.010
He takes one look and he had been

00:55:53.010 --> 00:55:57.105
smiling at me before he took a closer look.

00:55:57.105 --> 00:56:00.135
His whole face transformed into this

00:56:00.135 --> 00:56:05.445
really contemptuous, angry, disgusted look.

00:56:05.445 --> 00:56:07.395
He actually snorted.

00:56:07.395 --> 00:56:09.045
He made a [NOISE] sound.

00:56:09.045 --> 00:56:12.180
Got up, picked up his books and jacket and walked off,

00:56:12.180 --> 00:56:13.905
and moved to the back of the class.

00:56:13.905 --> 00:56:15.375
He wouldn't even sit next to me.

00:56:15.375 --> 00:56:17.055
So it did have impact?

00:56:17.055 --> 00:56:18.240
It did have impact.

00:56:18.240 --> 00:56:20.115
I was really again,

00:56:20.115 --> 00:56:22.365
maybe it has to do with being 20

00:56:22.365 --> 00:56:24.810
and like a positive, upbeat person.

00:56:24.810 --> 00:56:26.550
It was a good lesson for me though,

00:56:26.550 --> 00:56:29.640
I was like I had this very minor encounter in

00:56:29.640 --> 00:56:31.680
my everyday life with somebody

00:56:31.680 --> 00:56:34.230
who ostracized me in a way.

00:56:34.230 --> 00:56:36.015
A very minor way, obviously,

00:56:36.015 --> 00:56:38.295
because of a statement

00:56:38.295 --> 00:56:40.995
I was making about my political views.

00:56:40.995 --> 00:56:43.710
That was an eye-opener for me.

00:56:43.710 --> 00:56:45.075
I didn't think anybody would

00:56:45.075 --> 00:56:47.100
pay that much attention really.

00:56:47.100 --> 00:56:49.080
So in hindsight, would you call

00:56:49.080 --> 00:56:51.165
the event itself a success?

00:56:51.165 --> 00:56:55.080
It was a success because so many people paid

00:56:55.080 --> 00:56:56.490
attention to it and I think

00:56:56.490 --> 00:56:59.565
more people than the GSA anticipated.

00:56:59.565 --> 00:57:01.410
Certainly as evidenced by

00:57:01.410 --> 00:57:03.630
the flood of letters to the newspaper.

00:57:03.630 --> 00:57:07.935
The other thing that came out of that for me,

00:57:07.935 --> 00:57:10.350
as far as the Virginia Tech Community,

00:57:10.350 --> 00:57:12.645
was after that editorial appeared,

00:57:12.645 --> 00:57:15.570
I was contacted directly by a number of

00:57:15.570 --> 00:57:18.660
people who were in the administration

00:57:18.660 --> 00:57:20.760
or teachers who were

00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:23.820
closeted gay people who

00:57:23.820 --> 00:57:27.340
wanted to have one-on-one meetings and just talk.

00:57:28.100 --> 00:57:30.840
Again, everything was off the record.

00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:32.655
This was a personal meeting.

00:57:32.655 --> 00:57:36.215
This was not about something I was writing for the paper.

00:57:36.215 --> 00:57:39.080
One of the people I met with for lunch,

00:57:39.080 --> 00:57:40.430
he was a professor.

00:57:40.430 --> 00:57:41.720
He was in his late 30s

00:57:41.720 --> 00:57:44.390
and told me that he lived every day

00:57:44.390 --> 00:57:48.485
in fear that he would be outed and would lose his job.

00:57:48.485 --> 00:57:50.780
He was quite convinced he would have no support in

00:57:50.780 --> 00:57:52.580
the Virginia Tech Community to keep

00:57:52.580 --> 00:57:55.520
his job if it were revealed that he were gay.

00:57:55.520 --> 00:57:57.605
Another person worked in

00:57:57.605 --> 00:58:00.840
administrative support at Burruss Hall,

00:58:00.980 --> 00:58:03.210
not in the president's office,

00:58:03.210 --> 00:58:05.790
but that whole administrative complex there.

00:58:05.790 --> 00:58:07.905
We met at a bar for a drink.

00:58:07.905 --> 00:58:09.090
One thing I noticed he had

00:58:09.090 --> 00:58:11.190
very nicely manicured fingernails,

00:58:11.190 --> 00:58:13.305
his hair was long.

00:58:13.305 --> 00:58:15.344
As we were talking,

00:58:15.344 --> 00:58:17.730
he started telling me these stories about

00:58:17.730 --> 00:58:20.190
how at that time it was called cross-dressing,

00:58:20.190 --> 00:58:22.650
obviously, not the correct term now,

00:58:22.650 --> 00:58:25.320
but that was what it was called in 1979.

00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:27.090
How he had these encounters.

00:58:27.090 --> 00:58:28.725
He would go down to Roanoke,

00:58:28.725 --> 00:58:30.735
which was the closest gay bar,

00:58:30.735 --> 00:58:32.925
and dressed as a woman.

00:58:32.925 --> 00:58:37.560
How he'd had some really near scary experiences

00:58:37.560 --> 00:58:39.210
because sometimes these guys would hang out,

00:58:39.210 --> 00:58:40.530
rednecky guys,

00:58:40.530 --> 00:58:42.630
wait for people to come out late at night from

00:58:42.630 --> 00:58:44.010
the bar because everybody knew it was

00:58:44.010 --> 00:58:46.680
a gay bar and harass people.

00:58:46.680 --> 00:58:49.950
On one case, he said he only didn't get assaulted because

00:58:49.950 --> 00:58:51.270
he could outrun these guys

00:58:51.270 --> 00:58:54.120
in high heels. He had high heels on.

00:58:54.120 --> 00:58:56.250
That's funny in a way,

00:58:56.250 --> 00:58:58.965
but it's also speaks to the times.

00:58:58.965 --> 00:59:01.080
I mean, people were prepared to beat

00:59:01.080 --> 00:59:03.180
you up when you came out of the gay bar

00:59:03.180 --> 00:59:05.145
in Roanoke which was the only gay bar

00:59:05.145 --> 00:59:07.770
that I knew of when I was a Virginia Tech student.

00:59:07.770 --> 00:59:10.605
So fast forward to 2019.

00:59:10.605 --> 00:59:13.560
Talk a little bit about where you are now in

00:59:13.560 --> 00:59:17.220
your life 40 years later and [NOISE]

00:59:17.220 --> 00:59:19.620
anything about your life now

00:59:19.620 --> 00:59:24.360
that relates to this experience from 40 years ago.

00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:27.540
Well, probably personally the biggest event

00:59:27.540 --> 00:59:30.750
related to me about

00:59:30.750 --> 00:59:33.495
gay rights was having my own son

00:59:33.495 --> 00:59:35.370
come out when he was 16 years old

00:59:35.370 --> 00:59:36.870
and now that's been 18 years.

00:59:36.870 --> 00:59:40.530
He's 34 now. Even though I thought I was

00:59:40.530 --> 00:59:45.000
a relatively open-minded, sensitive,

00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.185
sensitized mom on the issue of gay rights,

00:59:49.185 --> 00:59:53.460
it still was a shock to me and he

00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:57.750
later told me that he was disappointed in my response.

00:59:57.750 --> 01:00:00.525
I wasn't negative, but I was just quiet.

01:00:00.525 --> 01:00:02.400
I didn't really say that much.

01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:04.980
My primary concern and you hear this from

01:00:04.980 --> 01:00:07.890
a lot of parents of gay children is,

01:00:07.890 --> 01:00:10.110
I was worried about his health,

01:00:10.110 --> 01:00:11.850
I was worried about his safety.

01:00:11.850 --> 01:00:15.300
I wanted him to have a normal, safe life.

01:00:15.300 --> 01:00:20.160
The biggest revelation for me is I suddenly

01:00:20.160 --> 01:00:22.230
understood he was 16

01:00:22.230 --> 01:00:25.980
and at that time I had an 11-year-old daughter,

01:00:25.980 --> 01:00:27.810
that's when it really came into

01:00:27.810 --> 01:00:31.605
my consciousness that there is no such thing.

01:00:31.605 --> 01:00:34.905
You can't control your children's lives.

01:00:34.905 --> 01:00:37.380
You have to open yourself up [NOISE]

01:00:37.380 --> 01:00:40.680
to what their experience is.

01:00:40.680 --> 01:00:45.075
So that was a personally politicizing moment.

01:00:45.075 --> 01:00:48.060
I did become more involved locally

01:00:48.060 --> 01:00:51.615
in [NOISE] the whole issue of gay rights.

01:00:51.615 --> 01:00:53.760
In fact, the moment I'm

01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:57.150
involved with local historical society,

01:00:57.150 --> 01:00:58.170
I've been involved with forever,

01:00:58.170 --> 01:01:01.815
but we're doing a gay rights-oriented exhibit

01:01:01.815 --> 01:01:05.085
that opens this May of 2019,

01:01:05.085 --> 01:01:08.190
related to [NOISE] this region we live,

01:01:08.190 --> 01:01:09.300
that I live in, in Seacoast,

01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:12.810
New Hampshire and so that particular gay experience,

01:01:12.810 --> 01:01:14.220
but also it coincides with

01:01:14.220 --> 01:01:15.450
the 50th anniversary of

01:01:15.450 --> 01:01:17.880
the Stonewall riots in New York City.

01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:19.545
That'll be 50 years in June.

01:01:19.545 --> 01:01:22.335
We're doing a whole bunch of stuff during Pride Month,

01:01:22.335 --> 01:01:25.470
which is in June, all sorts of events related to that.

01:01:25.470 --> 01:01:27.945
So it did radicalized me,

01:01:27.945 --> 01:01:30.855
I'm not marching around with signs or anything,

01:01:30.855 --> 01:01:33.930
but I quietly and

01:01:33.930 --> 01:01:39.180
consistently try to find ways to support the whole issue.

01:01:39.180 --> 01:01:40.455
I know gay rights,

01:01:40.455 --> 01:01:43.020
it's LGBTQ, and more.

01:01:43.020 --> 01:01:44.550
I understand that, but you

01:01:44.550 --> 01:01:46.350
have to make allowances for my age

01:01:46.350 --> 01:01:49.680
so gay is the operative word that I grew up with.

01:01:49.680 --> 01:01:56.200
[NOISE] It is part of my daily consciousness.

01:02:00.210 --> 01:02:04.540
January 19th, 1979.

01:02:04.540 --> 01:02:07.700
Sherry Lynn Wood, Editor in Chief.

01:02:07.710 --> 01:02:11.350
Student awareness of Gay Awareness Week began with

01:02:11.350 --> 01:02:12.760
a very small article on

01:02:12.760 --> 01:02:14.740
the bottom of page two in the Tuesday,

01:02:14.740 --> 01:02:17.155
January 9th issue of the Collegiate Times.

01:02:17.155 --> 01:02:18.640
When we ran the article as

01:02:18.640 --> 01:02:19.690
a routine report on

01:02:19.690 --> 01:02:21.565
a commission on Student Affairs meeting,

01:02:21.565 --> 01:02:23.470
we had no idea we'd be unleashing

01:02:23.470 --> 01:02:25.240
a flood of opinion that started with

01:02:25.240 --> 01:02:27.190
a trickle of letters and culminated in

01:02:27.190 --> 01:02:29.515
our record setting editorial response.

01:02:29.515 --> 01:02:31.600
In the past four years, the only topic to

01:02:31.600 --> 01:02:33.460
elicit more response was a letter in

01:02:33.460 --> 01:02:36.160
1977 about two male tech

01:02:36.160 --> 01:02:37.420
students whose past-time was

01:02:37.420 --> 01:02:39.115
kicking the guts out of cats.

01:02:39.115 --> 01:02:42.160
The cat kickers got about 50 letters, all abusive.

01:02:42.160 --> 01:02:44.500
Awareness Week, most particularly Denim Day,

01:02:44.500 --> 01:02:46.945
got about 30 letters some were abusive,

01:02:46.945 --> 01:02:49.900
some were favorable, but all had strong points of view.

01:02:49.900 --> 01:02:52.330
"I am disgusted" began one letter.

01:02:52.330 --> 01:02:55.000
"It would be a cold day in hell before I let a gay or

01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:58.090
anyone else influence my dress. " another letter said.

01:02:58.090 --> 01:02:59.890
"I personally find it hard to

01:02:59.890 --> 01:03:01.840
believe that people are so willing to brand

01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:04.030
any segment of society as abnormal or

01:03:04.030 --> 01:03:05.530
unequal on the basis of

01:03:05.530 --> 01:03:07.720
their sexual preference, religion, etc.

01:03:07.720 --> 01:03:10.710
For those who are so quick to pass such moral judgments,

01:03:10.710 --> 01:03:12.720
I cross my fingers and pray that you are

01:03:12.720 --> 01:03:14.730
not the people who will one day run my country."

01:03:14.730 --> 01:03:18.775
One letter read, and so on.

01:03:18.775 --> 01:03:21.115
But whatever the individual opinions,

01:03:21.115 --> 01:03:23.500
there were definitely opinions about "Gay Week",

01:03:23.500 --> 01:03:24.970
as most students called it.

01:03:24.970 --> 01:03:26.920
We didn't expect this kind of response,

01:03:26.920 --> 01:03:29.005
a member of Tech's Gay Student Alliance said.

01:03:29.005 --> 01:03:32.019
We figured the week would go by pretty much unnoticed.

01:03:32.019 --> 01:03:33.670
There have been other gay awareness weeks

01:03:33.670 --> 01:03:35.215
at other schools in this country.

01:03:35.215 --> 01:03:36.970
Rutgers University in New Jersey

01:03:36.970 --> 01:03:38.500
has a Gay Awareness Week and Denim Day

01:03:38.500 --> 01:03:41.800
every year so do many other Eastern West Coast schools,

01:03:41.800 --> 01:03:44.170
the GAS spokesperson said.

01:03:44.170 --> 01:03:45.880
"If this sort of thing happened in New York,

01:03:45.880 --> 01:03:48.160
people would probably yawn." The spokesperson said.

01:03:48.160 --> 01:03:50.260
"But they didn't yawn at Virginia Tech.

01:03:50.260 --> 01:03:52.330
Is your world going to come crashing down if you

01:03:52.330 --> 01:03:54.490
don't wear blue jeans one day out of the year?"

01:03:54.490 --> 01:03:57.220
Another CT reader wrote, and so it went.

01:03:57.220 --> 01:03:58.750
But whatever the side taken,

01:03:58.750 --> 01:04:01.465
there was plenty of sound and fury and response.

01:04:01.465 --> 01:04:03.460
For a generation, college goers with

01:04:03.460 --> 01:04:05.290
a reputation for comfortable silence

01:04:05.290 --> 01:04:07.000
and settled apathy this

01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:09.190
response to notice that Gay Awareness Week,

01:04:09.190 --> 01:04:12.800
whatever its implications hit close to the Hokie heart.

01:04:15.300 --> 01:04:20.440
I didn't date at all in high school either sex,

01:04:20.440 --> 01:04:23.950
either gender, either identity.

01:04:23.950 --> 01:04:26.605
At one point my father said,

01:04:26.605 --> 01:04:29.785
"Why don't you take the car and get a date and go out?"

01:04:29.785 --> 01:04:31.480
I said, "Well, I've got studies

01:04:31.480 --> 01:04:32.770
to do" or something like that.

01:04:32.770 --> 01:04:34.600
He said, "What are you? Some kind of queer?"

01:04:34.600 --> 01:04:36.625
And I thought, "Oh my gosh.

01:04:36.625 --> 01:04:39.250
There goes my college tuition."

01:04:39.250 --> 01:04:42.850
[LAUGHTER] At that point then I

01:04:42.850 --> 01:04:48.355
became even more withdrawn,

01:04:48.355 --> 01:04:52.240
and internalized, and chose to,

01:04:52.240 --> 01:04:54.220
instead of going to the University of Nebraska

01:04:54.220 --> 01:04:55.240
to go to a small college,

01:04:55.240 --> 01:04:56.680
where didn't know anyone.

01:04:56.680 --> 01:04:58.330
Because a lot of high school kids would

01:04:58.330 --> 01:04:59.620
have gone to Nebraska,

01:04:59.620 --> 01:05:02.275
also went to high school in Omaha.

01:05:02.275 --> 01:05:05.140
That was an escape mechanism,

01:05:05.140 --> 01:05:07.930
but it was also interesting that

01:05:07.930 --> 01:05:10.945
you had to deal with your own internal struggles.

01:05:10.945 --> 01:05:14.545
I think Denim Day was sort of that for many people.

01:05:14.545 --> 01:05:19.960
Just the idea that you had to make a decision.

01:05:19.960 --> 01:05:21.970
To wear it on the outside.

01:05:21.970 --> 01:05:24.460
To where it on the outside,

01:05:24.460 --> 01:05:27.085
and if you were wearing denim,

01:05:27.085 --> 01:05:31.585
people might not think,

01:05:31.585 --> 01:05:35.125
"Oh, he is gay or she is a lesbian."

01:05:35.125 --> 01:05:43.520
But oh, they identify, okay.

01:05:47.550 --> 01:05:50.290
One of the strange things,

01:05:50.290 --> 01:05:53.920
and I know I didn't create this,

01:05:53.920 --> 01:05:56.545
I've talked with at least one other person about it.

01:05:56.545 --> 01:05:57.700
There were some students who wore

01:05:57.700 --> 01:05:59.740
toothbrushes around their neck.

01:05:59.740 --> 01:06:01.195
We've heard that, yeah.

01:06:01.195 --> 01:06:02.395
Okay. Have you heard that?

01:06:02.395 --> 01:06:03.535
Yeah.

01:06:03.535 --> 01:06:05.710
I'm not sure, were they going to just

01:06:05.710 --> 01:06:07.330
brush away the bad stuff or what,

01:06:07.330 --> 01:06:09.850
but it was ridiculous

01:06:09.850 --> 01:06:12.400
to walk around campus and there weren't a lot of them.

01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:14.890
I'm not sure exactly which religious group it was.

01:06:14.890 --> 01:06:17.320
I've got an idea, but to see

01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:20.605
students wearing toothbrushes around their neck,

01:06:20.605 --> 01:06:23.180
sort of an anti-statement.

01:06:24.990 --> 01:06:27.760
I don't remember if there was anyone in class who

01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:30.650
had a toothbrush around their neck that day.

01:06:35.130 --> 01:06:41.455
January 12th 1979, Collegiate Times to the editor.

01:06:41.455 --> 01:06:43.660
The idea of a Denim Day is

01:06:43.660 --> 01:06:47.005
an outrage to any thinking student on this campus.

01:06:47.005 --> 01:06:50.215
Such a demonstration severely lacks originality,

01:06:50.215 --> 01:06:51.730
even indicating an absence of

01:06:51.730 --> 01:06:53.980
careful thought among its originators.

01:06:53.980 --> 01:06:56.590
Since almost 70 percent

01:06:56.590 --> 01:06:59.095
of Tech students wear blue jeans every day,

01:06:59.095 --> 01:07:01.480
a visitor to the Tech campus on Wednesday

01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:04.045
will be amazed at the scarcity of denims,

01:07:04.045 --> 01:07:06.370
because the majority of Tech students we

01:07:06.370 --> 01:07:09.270
hope are not homosexuals.

01:07:09.270 --> 01:07:12.000
We sympathize with those people whose college

01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.450
wardrobe consist of nothing but blue jeans.

01:07:14.450 --> 01:07:16.000
Therefore, to keep these students

01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:17.290
from being inflicted with

01:07:17.290 --> 01:07:18.880
the social embarrassment of

01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:21.370
association with the gay community,

01:07:21.370 --> 01:07:23.305
we propose that straight students

01:07:23.305 --> 01:07:24.880
who must or wish to wear

01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:28.765
jeans carry a toothbrush with them all day Wednesday.

01:07:28.765 --> 01:07:30.790
The authors of Denim Day are afraid to

01:07:30.790 --> 01:07:32.920
be different and be seen with their beliefs.

01:07:32.920 --> 01:07:34.690
However, we are not afraid to

01:07:34.690 --> 01:07:36.880
be different in show that we are straight.

01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:39.355
Eric harder, freshman biology.

01:07:39.355 --> 01:07:41.875
Diane Chase, freshman computer science.

01:07:41.875 --> 01:07:45.114
David Fadaley, sophomore Electrical Engineering.

01:07:45.114 --> 01:07:48.500
Jeff Feamster, freshmen business.

01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:56.935
Fall quarter, so in the sophomore year,

01:07:56.935 --> 01:08:01.779
he came out to me and

01:08:01.779 --> 01:08:07.720
invited me to go to a talk that his boyfriend was giving.

01:08:07.720 --> 01:08:10.060
He was dating the President

01:08:10.060 --> 01:08:11.710
of the Gay Student Alliance at the time

01:08:11.710 --> 01:08:13.300
and he was going to be on

01:08:13.300 --> 01:08:16.585
a panel talking to a human sexuality class.

01:08:16.585 --> 01:08:23.215
I went to go see Leroy's boyfriend talk to this class.

01:08:23.215 --> 01:08:26.485
It was one of these big lecture halls,

01:08:26.485 --> 01:08:29.605
like a 100 students or whatever and

01:08:29.605 --> 01:08:33.250
three gay men on

01:08:33.250 --> 01:08:36.320
this panel sitting down in front of the room.

01:08:38.820 --> 01:08:43.780
It was great, just listening to their interaction with

01:08:43.780 --> 01:08:45.940
the class and then being honest and

01:08:45.940 --> 01:08:48.730
open about who they were and telling their story.

01:08:48.730 --> 01:08:51.175
But the one thing that I felt like was

01:08:51.175 --> 01:08:53.650
missing was the fact that all three of

01:08:53.650 --> 01:08:56.320
them were men and

01:08:56.320 --> 01:08:59.695
they were missing the women's perspective.

01:08:59.695 --> 01:09:02.290
I thought to myself

01:09:02.290 --> 01:09:04.780
that next time they do one of these classes,

01:09:04.780 --> 01:09:06.460
I am going to be there to

01:09:06.460 --> 01:09:09.580
present the lesbian side of the story.

01:09:09.580 --> 01:09:13.070
Keep in mind, I had not at this point come out.

01:09:14.700 --> 01:09:20.830
That was another step in my journey and even that day,

01:09:20.830 --> 01:09:22.870
even though I had

01:09:22.870 --> 01:09:24.910
that realization and I

01:09:24.910 --> 01:09:26.800
was there with my best friend Leroy,

01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:30.050
I didn't say a word to Leroy about it then.

01:09:32.010 --> 01:09:34.510
I think it was a few weeks later that I

01:09:34.510 --> 01:09:36.550
did and and sure enough,

01:09:36.550 --> 01:09:38.275
next time one of those classes came up

01:09:38.275 --> 01:09:40.420
I was indeed on the panel

01:09:40.420 --> 01:09:45.410
and one of the people sharing my story.

01:09:45.570 --> 01:09:49.910
So cool and so powerful.

01:09:50.070 --> 01:09:52.390
It's an interesting thing for

01:09:52.390 --> 01:09:53.980
me to have chosen to do because I

01:09:53.980 --> 01:09:59.710
am not somebody who craves the spotlight.

01:09:59.710 --> 01:10:03.070
I shy away from it as much as possible.

01:10:03.070 --> 01:10:05.680
It's a little odd that I'm even doing this interview,

01:10:05.680 --> 01:10:09.850
but I think that

01:10:09.850 --> 01:10:12.025
I really saw how important

01:10:12.025 --> 01:10:14.140
that was and how meaningful it could be.

01:10:14.140 --> 01:10:17.110
I mean, that panel

01:10:17.110 --> 01:10:20.230
that I went to had an effect on my life,

01:10:20.230 --> 01:10:22.960
and if I could help ease

01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:25.840
the way for just one other gay or

01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:28.495
lesbian student that would be worth the

01:10:28.495 --> 01:10:30.430
fear of getting up

01:10:30.430 --> 01:10:33.050
in front of a crowd of people and talking.

01:10:33.390 --> 01:10:36.145
Honestly for me it's like a phobia,

01:10:36.145 --> 01:10:37.900
a public speaking phobia.

01:10:37.900 --> 01:10:39.550
I'm a little better now than I was then,

01:10:39.550 --> 01:10:43.255
but talking in front of any class was hard for me,

01:10:43.255 --> 01:10:45.490
reading a book report or something in front of a class,

01:10:45.490 --> 01:10:48.280
and yet I was going into this classes

01:10:48.280 --> 01:10:51.730
in Virginia in the seventies

01:10:51.730 --> 01:10:54.490
where people were not

01:10:54.490 --> 01:10:58.330
necessarily very supportive of gay and lesbian students.

01:10:58.330 --> 01:10:59.770
I was getting up there and saying,

01:10:59.770 --> 01:11:03.170
this is who I am and this is my story.

01:11:07.080 --> 01:11:10.600
It was an amazing and powerful thing for me,

01:11:10.600 --> 01:11:12.190
very empowering for me,

01:11:12.190 --> 01:11:14.920
and I definitely felt

01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:17.080
like I was doing a good thing for other people.

01:11:17.080 --> 01:11:19.435
The feedback that we got from

01:11:19.435 --> 01:11:22.659
the students that were in the class,

01:11:22.659 --> 01:11:24.850
they would come up to us afterwards or would

01:11:24.850 --> 01:11:27.720
call a week later and say,

01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:31.890
hey, I went to this class and now I know.

01:11:31.890 --> 01:11:33.600
It turns out I'm gay too.

01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:36.780
I mean, we had those experiences all the time and it

01:11:36.780 --> 01:11:40.625
was or somebody would come up and say,

01:11:40.625 --> 01:11:42.970
my brother came out last year and I

01:11:42.970 --> 01:11:44.980
haven't known how to talk to him about it,

01:11:44.980 --> 01:11:48.710
and this has really helped me.

01:11:50.940 --> 01:11:55.060
I don't even know most of the people

01:11:55.060 --> 01:11:57.400
what influence that may have had

01:11:57.400 --> 01:12:00.385
that we were all willing to come and and talk like that.

01:12:00.385 --> 01:12:02.350
Kids that were in those classes that are

01:12:02.350 --> 01:12:05.420
parents now and their kids come out.

01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:09.625
That's something people connect with and remember.

01:12:09.625 --> 01:12:14.990
It's something I'm proud of having been a part of.

01:12:15.240 --> 01:12:18.800
I'm also very proud of you.

01:12:21.110 --> 01:12:24.550
Can you talk about Denim Day?

01:12:24.620 --> 01:12:29.445
Yeah, Denim Day was a pretty significant event.

01:12:29.445 --> 01:12:33.400
Well, the whole week was significant really.

01:12:35.150 --> 01:12:38.925
It was Gay Awareness Week.

01:12:38.925 --> 01:12:43.440
It was not Gay Pride Week. We weren't there yet.

01:12:43.440 --> 01:12:48.960
I think that the first step that anyone needs to

01:12:48.960 --> 01:12:51.510
take towards having any kind of equal rights

01:12:51.510 --> 01:12:54.390
is just for people to be aware that you even exist.

01:12:54.390 --> 01:12:58.440
We were pretty much an invisible minority at that point,

01:12:58.440 --> 01:13:03.940
particularly at Virginia Tech or other places similar.

01:13:06.230 --> 01:13:10.275
Outside of New York or San Francisco,

01:13:10.275 --> 01:13:16.890
there wasn't a lot of visibility for LGBTQ folks.

01:13:16.890 --> 01:13:20.440
We didn't even have all those letters then.

01:13:22.280 --> 01:13:24.690
Like I said, even the phrase

01:13:24.690 --> 01:13:26.190
gay pride, we weren't quite there yet,

01:13:26.190 --> 01:13:29.010
it was just making

01:13:29.010 --> 01:13:33.190
people aware that we even existed was that first step.

01:13:34.220 --> 01:13:36.915
We plan this whole week.

01:13:36.915 --> 01:13:40.110
The centerpiece of the week was Denim Day.

01:13:40.110 --> 01:13:43.740
It was something that had been done in other places.

01:13:43.740 --> 01:13:46.035
It wasn't our idea,

01:13:46.035 --> 01:13:50.295
but I'm pretty sure it had never been done in

01:13:50.295 --> 01:13:57.880
State of Virginia or anywhere within a huge radius.

01:13:58.940 --> 01:14:02.070
The whole idea was,

01:14:02.070 --> 01:14:04.410
on Wednesday, you should wear

01:14:04.410 --> 01:14:07.630
denim to show your support for gay rights.

01:14:09.380 --> 01:14:13.860
The concepts went over

01:14:13.860 --> 01:14:17.010
most people's heads which was pretty interesting.

01:14:17.010 --> 01:14:22.090
I mean, it ended up that on Denim Day,

01:14:23.540 --> 01:14:27.570
practically no one wore denim and denim was

01:14:27.570 --> 01:14:31.780
pretty much the uniform for all college students.

01:14:34.790 --> 01:14:38.440
That was really the whole idea,

01:14:39.070 --> 01:14:43.170
was to make people something

01:14:43.170 --> 01:14:46.935
that would come so naturally to everyone.

01:14:46.935 --> 01:14:49.740
Just slipping on a pair

01:14:49.740 --> 01:14:51.660
of jeans in the morning that they had to

01:14:51.660 --> 01:14:53.835
stop and think twice about

01:14:53.835 --> 01:14:55.410
whether that was something

01:14:55.410 --> 01:14:57.165
that they wanted to do that day,

01:14:57.165 --> 01:15:02.820
that to have this fear that people would think they

01:15:02.820 --> 01:15:04.590
supported gay rights if they

01:15:04.590 --> 01:15:07.320
just were themselves and

01:15:07.320 --> 01:15:09.820
dress the way they always dressed.

01:15:10.910 --> 01:15:14.250
There's multiple levels there

01:15:14.250 --> 01:15:17.325
of what that's doing because first of all,

01:15:17.325 --> 01:15:18.960
why should anyone be afraid

01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:21.360
of showing support for gay rights?

01:15:21.360 --> 01:15:23.670
It doesn't necessarily mean you're gay, except that,

01:15:23.670 --> 01:15:27.910
that is what [LAUGHTER] everyone would think.

01:15:30.230 --> 01:15:32.790
That’s what people were

01:15:32.790 --> 01:15:35.280
thinking that if you support gay rights,

01:15:35.280 --> 01:15:38.850
it could only be [LAUGHTER]

01:15:38.850 --> 01:15:40.560
Basically, the whole point was to

01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:42.360
make people have to stop and

01:15:42.360 --> 01:15:45.270
think twice about doing something that was

01:15:45.270 --> 01:15:46.830
just as natural to them as

01:15:46.830 --> 01:15:48.840
slipping on a pair of jeans in the morning.

01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:50.820
Having that fear that if you did

01:15:50.820 --> 01:15:53.190
that thing that came perfectly natural to you,

01:15:53.190 --> 01:15:56.385
that people would have a negative opinion of you.

01:15:56.385 --> 01:15:59.920
They would think that you were supporting gay rights.

01:16:01.490 --> 01:16:05.430
Then there's that level 2 of just the whole idea that

01:16:05.430 --> 01:16:09.150
supporting gay rights is somehow a bad thing.

01:16:09.150 --> 01:16:12.390
That people would automatically think that you were gay,

01:16:12.390 --> 01:16:13.530
which was even worse.

01:16:13.530 --> 01:16:17.340
But these are all things

01:16:17.340 --> 01:16:20.100
that would be running through people's minds and this is

01:16:20.100 --> 01:16:25.470
what caused most everybody at Virginia Tech to

01:16:25.470 --> 01:16:30.780
come dressed in khakis and corduroys, anything but denim.

01:16:30.780 --> 01:16:34.980
People totally avoided them and people got really mad.

01:16:34.980 --> 01:16:37.260
People wrote tons of letters

01:16:37.260 --> 01:16:39.345
to the editor and then they're all like,

01:16:39.345 --> 01:16:40.530
why did you pick this?

01:16:40.530 --> 01:16:43.350
You should have realize

01:16:43.350 --> 01:16:46.200
that this was what everybody wore.

01:16:46.200 --> 01:16:48.600
Yeah. That's the point.

01:16:48.600 --> 01:16:58.035
[LAUGHTER] Totally out of work, although like I said,

01:16:58.035 --> 01:17:01.550
I always was and I get

01:17:01.550 --> 01:17:03.050
this part of me that

01:17:03.050 --> 01:17:05.420
I've asked myself this question like,

01:17:05.420 --> 01:17:09.365
why is it that I always was so out?

01:17:09.365 --> 01:17:11.465
When you balance that out with being

01:17:11.465 --> 01:17:13.820
someone who doesn't crave the spotlight,

01:17:13.820 --> 01:17:18.770
doesn't like to call attention to myself really.

01:17:18.770 --> 01:17:22.355
Yet I always felt compelled to be very out.

01:17:22.355 --> 01:17:24.960
That was important.

01:17:25.070 --> 01:17:27.600
I think part of it relates to one of

01:17:27.600 --> 01:17:29.400
the things that I used to always say in

01:17:29.400 --> 01:17:33.330
the introduction to when

01:17:33.330 --> 01:17:35.205
we would do those panel discussions.

01:17:35.205 --> 01:17:36.915
One of the things I always said was,

01:17:36.915 --> 01:17:39.000
I'm here because I don't want to be.

01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:41.850
That I don't want

01:17:41.850 --> 01:17:45.600
for this one aspect

01:17:45.600 --> 01:17:48.210
of my life to be considered so abhorrent to

01:17:48.210 --> 01:17:51.420
so many people and so weird

01:17:51.420 --> 01:17:55.095
and different that it's something that they

01:17:55.095 --> 01:17:59.535
need somebody to come in and talk on a panel

01:17:59.535 --> 01:18:04.960
about this strange thing that nobody really understands.

01:18:07.370 --> 01:18:10.710
I think that society has

01:18:10.710 --> 01:18:16.035
changed over time where it is much less of an issue.

01:18:16.035 --> 01:18:20.955
I've seen that in being always very

01:18:20.955 --> 01:18:23.040
out all through my life that

01:18:23.040 --> 01:18:26.770
now it's like nobody even gives it a second thought.

01:18:27.350 --> 01:18:31.530
I always was out at work.

01:18:31.530 --> 01:18:36.240
But now where I work,

01:18:36.240 --> 01:18:39.750
I march with my contingent of

01:18:39.750 --> 01:18:43.905
co-workers in the annual gay pride parade

01:18:43.905 --> 01:18:48.060
in my Park Service uniform with my rainbow

01:18:48.060 --> 01:18:54.120
Boa and it's an amazing and wonderful thing.

01:18:54.120 --> 01:18:57.720
I remember in 2016,

01:18:57.720 --> 01:18:59.790
the first year we

01:18:59.790 --> 01:19:03.870
had the Park Service in the pride parade here in

01:19:03.870 --> 01:19:07.410
Seattle and I was so

01:19:07.410 --> 01:19:10.950
happy because you were so happy. [LAUGHTER]

01:19:10.950 --> 01:19:12.930
I was phenomenally happy.

01:19:12.930 --> 01:19:24.285
[LAUGHTER] Yeah.

01:19:24.285 --> 01:19:26.040
I think you said you never

01:19:26.040 --> 01:19:28.780
thought that you would get to do that.

01:19:29.140 --> 01:19:31.410
Yeah.

01:19:38.660 --> 01:19:45.240
January 16th, 1979 Collegiate Times. To the editor.

01:19:45.240 --> 01:19:47.460
Having read all the articles

01:19:47.460 --> 01:19:49.260
degrading the Gay Awareness Week in

01:19:49.260 --> 01:19:51.000
the letters to the editor section of

01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:53.775
the January 12th issue of the Collegiate Times,

01:19:53.775 --> 01:19:56.730
I would like to humbly congratulate all the writers in

01:19:56.730 --> 01:20:00.475
an extremely effective display of their ignorance.

01:20:00.475 --> 01:20:03.260
Tony Pirrone, in your letter you seem to be

01:20:03.260 --> 01:20:06.080
quite worried about how you appear to other people.

01:20:06.080 --> 01:20:08.780
I'm pleased that you are wearing corduroys to show

01:20:08.780 --> 01:20:11.935
everyone where you stand on the view of gay rights.

01:20:11.935 --> 01:20:14.220
However Mr. Pirone, I believe you missed

01:20:14.220 --> 01:20:15.360
the point in your question

01:20:15.360 --> 01:20:17.040
addressed to the gay community.

01:20:17.040 --> 01:20:18.990
Where you trying to get people to dress

01:20:18.990 --> 01:20:20.745
like they supported the gay cause?

01:20:20.745 --> 01:20:21.810
Where you that worried that

01:20:21.810 --> 01:20:23.655
you wouldn't get enough support?

01:20:23.655 --> 01:20:25.110
I feel that the purpose of

01:20:25.110 --> 01:20:28.515
the Gay Awareness Week is not to gather support,

01:20:28.515 --> 01:20:30.780
but rather broaden the closed mind

01:20:30.780 --> 01:20:32.955
of individuals like yourself.

01:20:32.955 --> 01:20:34.830
The fact that denim was picked as

01:20:34.830 --> 01:20:37.705
a material to wear seems to deeply concern you.

01:20:37.705 --> 01:20:40.865
Perhaps drawing this concern was the intended purpose.

01:20:40.865 --> 01:20:42.290
After all, the fact that you

01:20:42.290 --> 01:20:44.030
took the time to sit down and write

01:20:44.030 --> 01:20:45.080
your letter proves that

01:20:45.080 --> 01:20:48.095
Gay Awareness Week touched at least one person.

01:20:48.095 --> 01:20:52.420
You Mr. Brown, are a victim of your own ignorance.

01:20:52.420 --> 01:20:55.605
As for the writers of Watch Out for Bare Feet,

01:20:55.605 --> 01:20:57.510
I'm elated to find four people

01:20:57.510 --> 01:20:59.400
who believe they are normal.

01:20:59.400 --> 01:21:03.450
[LAUGHTER] According to their letter,

01:21:03.450 --> 01:21:05.280
one can infer normal people have

01:21:05.280 --> 01:21:06.720
the instinctive ability to

01:21:06.720 --> 01:21:09.390
condemn others who don't act as they would.

01:21:09.390 --> 01:21:11.490
God I'm glad this world is not

01:21:11.490 --> 01:21:14.220
strictly comprised of normal people.

01:21:14.220 --> 01:21:17.100
Finally for the writers of Bring Your Toothbrush,

01:21:17.100 --> 01:21:18.300
in your letter you state,

01:21:18.300 --> 01:21:20.250
"The authors of Denim Day were afraid to

01:21:20.250 --> 01:21:22.275
be different and be seen with their beliefs."

01:21:22.275 --> 01:21:25.170
Where in actuality, it is you who are afraid of

01:21:25.170 --> 01:21:28.260
appearing as if you support any gay cause,

01:21:28.260 --> 01:21:29.790
or you would never advocate

01:21:29.790 --> 01:21:31.590
carrying a toothbrush to prevent

01:21:31.590 --> 01:21:33.630
the social embarrassment of

01:21:33.630 --> 01:21:35.985
association with the gay community.

01:21:35.985 --> 01:21:38.490
I feel sorry for all of you.

01:21:38.490 --> 01:21:40.530
Mark Erikson, finance.

01:21:40.530 --> 01:21:45.120
[APPLAUSE]

01:21:45.120 --> 01:21:49.365
February 13th, 1979 Collegiate Times.

01:21:49.365 --> 01:21:52.200
Note; the following letter was written by

01:21:52.200 --> 01:21:55.110
a member of the Virginia Tech Gay Student Alliance.

01:21:55.110 --> 01:21:57.314
If the author's name were revealed,

01:21:57.314 --> 01:21:59.610
it could threaten his job and

01:21:59.610 --> 01:22:02.925
CT does not print unsigned letters,

01:22:02.925 --> 01:22:06.705
so I am submitting his letter under my name.

01:22:06.705 --> 01:22:10.125
To the editor and the Virginia Tech community.

01:22:10.125 --> 01:22:12.990
Some of us are your parents, children,

01:22:12.990 --> 01:22:15.315
brothers and sisters, friends,

01:22:15.315 --> 01:22:18.165
teachers, employers and athletic heroes.

01:22:18.165 --> 01:22:19.770
We were burned at the stake by

01:22:19.770 --> 01:22:21.945
the thousands during the Middle Ages.

01:22:21.945 --> 01:22:23.670
We were the second largest minority

01:22:23.670 --> 01:22:25.770
exterminated at Buchenwald in Auschwitz,

01:22:25.770 --> 01:22:27.090
although history books seldom

01:22:27.090 --> 01:22:28.890
mentioned as in those contexts.

01:22:28.890 --> 01:22:30.900
We are still the butt of jokes and

01:22:30.900 --> 01:22:33.240
the target of violence in America today.

01:22:33.240 --> 01:22:35.460
Many of us have contributed to the arts,

01:22:35.460 --> 01:22:38.250
sciences and all of the other areas of human ingenuity,

01:22:38.250 --> 01:22:42.105
but most of us are ordinary people living ordinary lives.

01:22:42.105 --> 01:22:45.075
We aren't sexual perverts or lost sinners.

01:22:45.075 --> 01:22:46.950
The professional, psychological and

01:22:46.950 --> 01:22:50.040
psychiatric associations have stated that we aren't sick.

01:22:50.040 --> 01:22:52.020
An increasing number of theologians

01:22:52.020 --> 01:22:53.940
are beginning to re-evaluate their positions

01:22:53.940 --> 01:22:56.340
on the basis of more accurate understandings

01:22:56.340 --> 01:22:58.155
of scripture and cultural history.

01:22:58.155 --> 01:23:01.215
We aren't any more promiscuous than anyone else.

01:23:01.215 --> 01:23:03.030
Some of us have had partners with whom we've

01:23:03.030 --> 01:23:05.100
shared our lives for 30 years or more.

01:23:05.100 --> 01:23:07.380
We aren't lonely because we have children,

01:23:07.380 --> 01:23:08.670
relatives and friends who

01:23:08.670 --> 01:23:10.770
love us and accept us for who we are.

01:23:10.770 --> 01:23:13.530
We don't often conform to your stereotypes of us,

01:23:13.530 --> 01:23:15.900
so you probably wouldn't recognize us if you saw

01:23:15.900 --> 01:23:17.250
us walking across the drill field

01:23:17.250 --> 01:23:18.735
or shopping in Kroger's.

01:23:18.735 --> 01:23:21.090
Because we are people first though we happen to be

01:23:21.090 --> 01:23:23.850
gay and because human beings have the right to life,

01:23:23.850 --> 01:23:25.665
liberty and the pursuit of happiness,

01:23:25.665 --> 01:23:27.420
we feel justified and expecting

01:23:27.420 --> 01:23:29.475
the rights to which we are thus entitled.

01:23:29.475 --> 01:23:31.200
We aren't asking for anything that

01:23:31.200 --> 01:23:32.850
Americans don't take for granted.

01:23:32.850 --> 01:23:35.775
We simply want to live without fear for our dignity,

01:23:35.775 --> 01:23:37.500
our jobs, our lives.

01:23:37.500 --> 01:23:38.910
We want people to acknowledge

01:23:38.910 --> 01:23:40.110
that those who are different from

01:23:40.110 --> 01:23:42.825
the majority aren't acting immorally or illegally,

01:23:42.825 --> 01:23:44.775
only differently from the rest.

01:23:44.775 --> 01:23:46.830
A few of you wore denim on Wednesday to

01:23:46.830 --> 01:23:49.530
indicate your support of our struggle for human rights.

01:23:49.530 --> 01:23:51.180
On behalf of the gay community

01:23:51.180 --> 01:23:52.620
of Blacksburg and of Virginia,

01:23:52.620 --> 01:23:54.060
I thank my straight brothers and

01:23:54.060 --> 01:23:55.890
sisters for their help in our struggle.

01:23:55.890 --> 01:23:57.720
But many more of you had to search

01:23:57.720 --> 01:23:59.970
your wardrobes for something other than jeans.

01:23:59.970 --> 01:24:01.770
Most of you are straight, but some are

01:24:01.770 --> 01:24:04.230
gay or unsure of your sexual orientation.

01:24:04.230 --> 01:24:06.570
Some of you hate us irrationally,

01:24:06.570 --> 01:24:08.700
others are ignorant and still others were

01:24:08.700 --> 01:24:11.275
afraid of the remarks which might be directed at you.

01:24:11.275 --> 01:24:14.630
I understand you all because I once felt as you do.

01:24:14.630 --> 01:24:16.460
I'm sorry if you felt oppressed,

01:24:16.460 --> 01:24:18.020
but my gay sisters and

01:24:18.020 --> 01:24:19.550
brothers and I feel oppressed every

01:24:19.550 --> 01:24:21.080
day by a straight society

01:24:21.080 --> 01:24:23.179
which forbids us to be ourselves.

01:24:23.179 --> 01:24:25.010
If someone you love and respect were to

01:24:25.010 --> 01:24:26.720
tell you that he or she is gay,

01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:27.920
would your attitude toward

01:24:27.920 --> 01:24:29.705
gay people and their rights change?

01:24:29.705 --> 01:24:32.605
Remember that one of every 10 people you know is gay.

01:24:32.605 --> 01:24:35.130
Remember that as long as even one member of

01:24:35.130 --> 01:24:37.935
our society is oppressed, none of us is free.

01:24:37.935 --> 01:24:42.490
Sueann Brown, architecture member, Gay Student Alliance.

01:24:43.330 --> 01:24:46.220
We were okay but

01:24:46.220 --> 01:24:50.210
the university at that point was not very friendly.

01:24:50.210 --> 01:24:52.950
We couldn't even meet on campus.

01:24:53.780 --> 01:24:56.700
When someone would call the gay hotline,

01:24:56.700 --> 01:24:58.170
you had to go into

01:24:58.170 --> 01:25:00.090
town with at least two people and meet in

01:25:00.090 --> 01:25:01.995
a public place because you didn't know if

01:25:01.995 --> 01:25:04.485
somebody was going to beat you with a baseball bat,

01:25:04.485 --> 01:25:06.525
nor did the person calling.

01:25:06.525 --> 01:25:07.650
They were worried that

01:25:07.650 --> 01:25:09.180
maybe we were going to beat them with

01:25:09.180 --> 01:25:10.740
a baseball bat [NOISE]

01:25:10.740 --> 01:25:13.090
so you had to meet in public places.

01:25:17.060 --> 01:25:21.450
It was an interesting time. I can remember

01:25:21.450 --> 01:25:24.870
going to the first gay rights march in D. C. All of

01:25:24.870 --> 01:25:28.380
the chance we went down fourth Avenue and to all things

01:25:28.380 --> 01:25:32.205
it was more of a festive thing than it was anything else.

01:25:32.205 --> 01:25:33.660
What year was that?

01:25:33.660 --> 01:25:38.070
I don't even remember. It had to

01:25:38.070 --> 01:25:43.485
be about the same time, '79, '78 maybe.

01:25:43.485 --> 01:25:46.110
There's a bunch of stuff in there.

01:25:46.110 --> 01:25:49.680
The hotline, the purpose of that

01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:55.815
is to make contact with the GSA or what's the?

01:25:55.815 --> 01:25:58.335
Yeah. Basically [NOISE] they contact you,

01:25:58.335 --> 01:26:03.960
figured out maybe you were gay or bi and obviously,

01:26:03.960 --> 01:26:07.360
there was no way to figure out who else was.

01:26:07.730 --> 01:26:10.770
The phone numbers were put up around

01:26:10.770 --> 01:26:12.855
campus and places like that.

01:26:12.855 --> 01:26:16.180
They were put up and torn down just about as fast.

01:26:16.910 --> 01:26:20.430
If you were coming to college for

01:26:20.430 --> 01:26:23.715
the first time and you know what your persuasion was,

01:26:23.715 --> 01:26:26.970
this was a way that you could basically call and meet

01:26:26.970 --> 01:26:30.780
up and meet people like yourself,

01:26:30.780 --> 01:26:33.135
gay and lesbian at that point.

01:26:33.135 --> 01:26:35.880
I think as we gay and lesbian,

01:26:35.880 --> 01:26:37.740
there's been more accepted than the groups have

01:26:37.740 --> 01:26:40.170
splintered to become almost two separate groups.

01:26:40.170 --> 01:26:42.660
They still work together, but back in those days it was

01:26:42.660 --> 01:26:48.345
one group but you'd call and come up.

01:26:48.345 --> 01:26:53.130
At that point it was mostly a social thing,

01:26:53.130 --> 01:26:55.020
get together for drinks

01:26:55.020 --> 01:26:56.250
or parties because back then by the way,

01:26:56.250 --> 01:26:58.450
remember you could drink at 18.

01:27:00.110 --> 01:27:02.610
It was also a community.

01:27:02.610 --> 01:27:06.450
[NOISE] Occasionally people would get kicked

01:27:06.450 --> 01:27:08.070
out and their parents would find out and

01:27:08.070 --> 01:27:10.590
so everybody would make sure they had places to stay,

01:27:10.590 --> 01:27:12.180
so they had to go home.

01:27:12.180 --> 01:27:14.940
Donations were collected because back then,

01:27:14.940 --> 01:27:18.105
I think it was $270 a quarter for tuition.

01:27:18.105 --> 01:27:19.455
You could actually raise the money

01:27:19.455 --> 01:27:21.850
to keep people in school.

01:27:23.570 --> 01:27:25.710
That's largely what it was.

01:27:25.710 --> 01:27:28.660
It was a way that you actually reach out.

01:27:29.510 --> 01:27:33.660
I understand the fear

01:27:33.660 --> 01:27:37.020
that motivates this secrecy around surrounding it,

01:27:37.020 --> 01:27:41.190
but were there actual instances of someone say

01:27:41.190 --> 01:27:43.770
posting a number as bait or

01:27:43.770 --> 01:27:46.770
calling the number for reasons of.

01:27:46.770 --> 01:27:48.780
I never [NOISE] heard of

01:27:48.780 --> 01:27:50.670
anybody posting the number

01:27:50.670 --> 01:27:51.780
for making somebody getting hurt.

01:27:51.780 --> 01:27:53.895
I know it's happened in other places.

01:27:53.895 --> 01:27:55.860
I do know that we would get people to

01:27:55.860 --> 01:27:58.500
call and they would never meet us,

01:27:58.500 --> 01:28:00.330
but they would start off acting serious

01:28:00.330 --> 01:28:02.240
and then all of a sudden they would start

01:28:02.240 --> 01:28:07.400
calling funny names and then you just hang up on them.

01:28:07.400 --> 01:28:09.560
It's a shame we didn't have caller ID

01:28:09.560 --> 01:28:10.670
back then. That would have been fun.

01:28:10.670 --> 01:28:14.180
[LAUGHTER] I personally never

01:28:14.180 --> 01:28:19.950
experienced any real animosity

01:28:19.950 --> 01:28:23.415
but I will say back then, you lived two lives.

01:28:23.415 --> 01:28:25.455
I was out to my family.

01:28:25.455 --> 01:28:27.510
I was out to certain friends,

01:28:27.510 --> 01:28:29.100
but I wasn't out at work.

01:28:29.100 --> 01:28:34.050
I wasn't out in all the classes that I took.

01:28:34.050 --> 01:28:35.715
I wasn't out to my professors

01:28:35.715 --> 01:28:37.200
except for the ones that were

01:28:37.200 --> 01:28:42.855
gay because it was just a different world back there.

01:28:42.855 --> 01:28:44.910
Like for example, on Denim Day,

01:28:44.910 --> 01:28:46.965
we talked about Denim Day.

01:28:46.965 --> 01:28:49.380
I remember we sat around and we were talking about that.

01:28:49.380 --> 01:28:52.260
I don't know if it was our idea or whether we

01:28:52.260 --> 01:28:55.830
copied somebody else's idea,

01:28:55.830 --> 01:28:58.245
but I do remember the whole point of the,

01:28:58.245 --> 01:28:59.670
it wasn't really a debate,

01:28:59.670 --> 01:29:01.875
a discussion of the group where we did this

01:29:01.875 --> 01:29:04.530
was people were saying,

01:29:04.530 --> 01:29:05.820
''Well, it's going to make people uncomfortable,

01:29:05.820 --> 01:29:06.990
it's going to make them mad.''

01:29:06.990 --> 01:29:09.670
Then other people were saying, ''Well that's the point.

01:29:09.670 --> 01:29:12.710
You want to make people inconvenienced.

01:29:12.710 --> 01:29:15.260
You want to make them feel uncomfortable because

01:29:15.260 --> 01:29:17.900
as a gay or lesbian, you feel that way.''

01:29:17.900 --> 01:29:22.230
[NOISE] I think we

01:29:22.230 --> 01:29:24.790
did a really good job on that part of it.

01:29:24.790 --> 01:29:27.035
I don't think we did such a good job

01:29:27.035 --> 01:29:29.180
of getting out the word the day after,

01:29:29.180 --> 01:29:33.425
why it was done but then again, the newspapers,

01:29:33.425 --> 01:29:36.020
the Collegiate Times really didn't want to print

01:29:36.020 --> 01:29:38.570
stories about this or that because again,

01:29:38.570 --> 01:29:43.100
there was still this animosity from

01:29:43.100 --> 01:29:48.440
the university towards the whole idea.

01:29:48.440 --> 01:29:53.805
Yeah. You wore denim on Denim Day?

01:29:53.805 --> 01:29:56.250
I did, but I was in the College

01:29:56.250 --> 01:29:59.085
of Agriculture and interestingly enough,

01:29:59.085 --> 01:30:03.210
a lot of the guys from Tazewell and Grundy and

01:30:03.210 --> 01:30:06.050
Giles County wore blue jeans

01:30:06.050 --> 01:30:06.995
that day too because

01:30:06.995 --> 01:30:09.060
they didn't have anything else to wear.

01:30:09.340 --> 01:30:12.800
They just walked around with

01:30:12.800 --> 01:30:17.945
their baseball hat on. I wore.

01:30:17.945 --> 01:30:19.670
I know a lot of gay friends

01:30:19.670 --> 01:30:22.020
though that they did not wear them.

01:30:22.150 --> 01:30:25.070
My boyfriend did, and he caught hell

01:30:25.070 --> 01:30:28.215
at the engineering school,

01:30:28.215 --> 01:30:29.550
people making fun of him all the

01:30:29.550 --> 01:30:32.070
time because they thought

01:30:32.070 --> 01:30:34.050
they were making fun of him because it was like,

01:30:34.050 --> 01:30:35.700
you forget to wear green on St.

01:30:35.700 --> 01:30:37.335
Patrick's Day, where you do.

01:30:37.335 --> 01:30:39.135
They assumed he was straight

01:30:39.135 --> 01:30:41.770
and they were just making fun.

01:30:47.120 --> 01:30:52.815
I just don't think most people got it.

01:30:52.815 --> 01:30:56.145
They didn't understand what it was all about.

01:30:56.145 --> 01:30:58.980
What they remember was is,

01:30:58.980 --> 01:31:02.550
jeans support gay rights.

01:31:02.550 --> 01:31:06.390
A lot of people in that culture,

01:31:06.390 --> 01:31:08.745
I don't think they'd thought much about it at all.

01:31:08.745 --> 01:31:11.445
I don't think they weren't necessarily anti-gay rights.

01:31:11.445 --> 01:31:13.200
It's just it was something totally new.

01:31:13.200 --> 01:31:15.970
It was a whole new movement at that point in time.

01:31:18.590 --> 01:31:21.780
I'm sure you've experienced in other things,

01:31:21.780 --> 01:31:24.225
but you poke fun at your friends.

01:31:24.225 --> 01:31:26.620
You make fun of them for

01:31:27.980 --> 01:31:31.290
things that are probably not

01:31:31.290 --> 01:31:34.500
the socially most acceptable, but you do.

01:31:34.500 --> 01:31:39.130
Back then, it was largely sociable acceptable to,

01:31:40.370 --> 01:31:44.010
say, are you a fancy guy to your buddies,

01:31:44.010 --> 01:31:46.305
even though you were 90 percent sure they weren't,

01:31:46.305 --> 01:31:48.910
you just called them out.

01:31:51.940 --> 01:31:57.330
I can remember the day that the Denim Day thing was,

01:31:58.570 --> 01:32:01.100
I had to go to the bank

01:32:01.100 --> 01:32:04.770
because I worked part-time at that bank,

01:32:05.620 --> 01:32:10.260
and so at 1:30 I had to leave class,

01:32:10.260 --> 01:32:12.195
and go to the bank, and there I had to put a suit on.

01:32:12.195 --> 01:32:14.010
I didn't have a denim suit,

01:32:14.010 --> 01:32:15.765
[NOISE] and you had to wear a suit.

01:32:15.765 --> 01:32:20.470
But I can remember working in the drive-in window.

01:32:22.010 --> 01:32:26.040
I'd see friends wearing

01:32:26.040 --> 01:32:28.740
khakis walking up and down the University of Boulevard,

01:32:28.740 --> 01:32:30.945
and I had the PA mic.

01:32:30.945 --> 01:32:33.390
I'd be like, "Hey, Randy,

01:32:33.390 --> 01:32:35.190
[LAUGHTER] you're better dressed

01:32:35.190 --> 01:32:36.630
than I've ever seen you",

01:32:36.630 --> 01:32:40.440
[LAUGHTER] it would burst out over the thing.

01:32:40.440 --> 01:32:42.945
Which bank was this? Where in town?

01:32:42.945 --> 01:32:46.980
Now it's BB&T, but we were by the foundation office,

01:32:46.980 --> 01:32:50.800
and so you could see the University Boulevard.

01:32:50.810 --> 01:32:54.390
I remember one friend of mine who I know was straight,

01:32:54.390 --> 01:32:57.330
because I've noticed his girlfriend

01:32:57.330 --> 01:32:58.710
and now his wife and we're still friends,

01:32:58.710 --> 01:32:59.640
but he was walking up.

01:32:59.640 --> 01:33:01.770
I mean, he was just total

01:33:01.770 --> 01:33:04.260
civil engineer oblivious to everything.

01:33:04.260 --> 01:33:05.490
He probably didn't even know Denim Day

01:33:05.490 --> 01:33:06.960
was going on [LAUGHTER],

01:33:06.960 --> 01:33:10.150
and I've got the PA system and I'm like,

01:33:11.390 --> 01:33:16.110
"Hey, handsome," and he's looking around, "This is God.

01:33:16.110 --> 01:33:19.155
[LAUGHTER] Should you have those jeans on today?"

01:33:19.155 --> 01:33:20.700
Just doing stuff like that,

01:33:20.700 --> 01:33:22.110
and he's looking around and he's like, "You."

01:33:22.110 --> 01:33:28.275
[LAUGHTER] Even I, at that point in time,

01:33:28.275 --> 01:33:32.320
was poking fun at everything because that's what you do.

01:33:33.260 --> 01:33:37.635
Is that something you did often with the PA?

01:33:37.635 --> 01:33:41.370
Yeah. [LAUGHTER] I remember

01:33:41.370 --> 01:33:42.600
one time Arthur Squires

01:33:42.600 --> 01:33:44.880
and his boyfriend were walking from,

01:33:44.880 --> 01:33:46.995
I think it was the Holiday Inn back then,

01:33:46.995 --> 01:33:48.750
and they were walking into

01:33:48.750 --> 01:33:51.580
Kroger's or something and I'd be like,

01:33:51.800 --> 01:33:58.680
"Dr. Squires, you have a message from God, she's pissed."

01:33:58.680 --> 01:34:01.215
[LAUGHTER] Just stuff like that. I had fun.

01:34:01.215 --> 01:34:04.950
My branch manager would get annoyed at me sometimes.

01:34:04.950 --> 01:34:07.740
Yeah, I guess. [LAUGHTER]

01:34:07.740 --> 01:34:13.500
But oh, well. [NOISE]

01:34:13.500 --> 01:34:18.555
January 16th, 1979, Collegiate Times. To the editor.

01:34:18.555 --> 01:34:20.670
I must say that I got a chuckle

01:34:20.670 --> 01:34:22.470
out of the announcement of Denim Day.

01:34:22.470 --> 01:34:24.030
I got even more of a chuckle

01:34:24.030 --> 01:34:25.440
out of the letters of outrage in

01:34:25.440 --> 01:34:27.840
Friday's CT. Having been a student

01:34:27.840 --> 01:34:30.420
of movement media campaigns over the past 10 years,

01:34:30.420 --> 01:34:32.070
I think I can say with certainty

01:34:32.070 --> 01:34:34.125
that Jerry and Abbie would be proud.

01:34:34.125 --> 01:34:37.005
I'm not gay, but I am a firm supporter of gay rights.

01:34:37.005 --> 01:34:38.490
I know too well what it's like

01:34:38.490 --> 01:34:39.930
to have other people think that they can

01:34:39.930 --> 01:34:43.215
control my life by their values. It's a serious issue.

01:34:43.215 --> 01:34:45.870
Nonetheless, a little humor lightens up any movement,

01:34:45.870 --> 01:34:47.160
and the very idea of

01:34:47.160 --> 01:34:49.515
a Denim Day certainly provides that humor.

01:34:49.515 --> 01:34:51.210
I can't speak for the GSA,

01:34:51.210 --> 01:34:52.950
but if they are taking this thing seriously,

01:34:52.950 --> 01:34:55.020
they're missing the beauty of their whole idea.

01:34:55.020 --> 01:34:56.970
It's unfortunate that those people who wrote

01:34:56.970 --> 01:34:59.415
the letters feel so threatened that they miss the humor.

01:34:59.415 --> 01:35:00.900
It does my heart good to know

01:35:00.900 --> 01:35:02.160
that there are people around who

01:35:02.160 --> 01:35:03.390
are creative enough to come

01:35:03.390 --> 01:35:04.965
up with these beautiful ideas.

01:35:04.965 --> 01:35:06.750
There's nothing more healthy than to

01:35:06.750 --> 01:35:08.250
be confronted with something that makes

01:35:08.250 --> 01:35:10.680
us draw a sharp breath before we burst out

01:35:10.680 --> 01:35:11.700
laughing at ourselves and

01:35:11.700 --> 01:35:13.545
the silliness we've created around us.

01:35:13.545 --> 01:35:16.210
Carol Hall, Senior, HNF.

01:35:17.570 --> 01:35:21.240
She was the one who outed me to Mark,

01:35:21.240 --> 01:35:23.650
she blew my cover.

01:35:23.930 --> 01:35:28.210
How did that go? What's the story there?

01:35:28.340 --> 01:35:32.280
She was looking for a place to live,

01:35:32.280 --> 01:35:35.940
and I just met up with some lesbians,

01:35:35.940 --> 01:35:38.220
and we were going to rent a house,

01:35:38.220 --> 01:35:39.930
and so I felt,

01:35:39.930 --> 01:35:44.850
for whatever reason, the need to let her know,

01:35:44.850 --> 01:35:46.080
to be honest,

01:35:46.080 --> 01:35:48.780
that there were going to be lesbians living there,

01:35:48.780 --> 01:35:50.160
and if that bothered her,

01:35:50.160 --> 01:35:51.990
I wanted her to know ahead of time.

01:35:51.990 --> 01:35:53.880
But please, don't tell my brother.

01:35:53.880 --> 01:35:59.040
I'm not out. Yeah. Well, that didn't work.

01:35:59.040 --> 01:36:00.840
It was at midnight, I think,

01:36:00.840 --> 01:36:04.110
after one of his night shows,

01:36:04.110 --> 01:36:06.135
and I get this call.

01:36:06.135 --> 01:36:09.400
I was in Ambler Johnston.

01:36:10.040 --> 01:36:17.100
Which is hilarious because my father, Ambler Johnston.

01:36:17.100 --> 01:36:18.855
Sixth floor.

01:36:18.855 --> 01:36:21.180
Was girls only.

01:36:21.180 --> 01:36:22.650
Virgin vault, they called it.

01:36:22.650 --> 01:36:24.870
The virgin vault. [LAUGHTER]

01:36:24.870 --> 01:36:26.340
The top two floors.

01:36:26.340 --> 01:36:28.469
My father.

01:36:28.469 --> 01:36:29.820
Yes.

01:36:29.820 --> 01:36:32.640
Put her in there specifically to keep her away from boys.

01:36:32.640 --> 01:36:38.160
[LAUGHTER]

01:36:38.160 --> 01:36:41.610
The irony. [LAUGHTER]

01:36:41.610 --> 01:36:43.980
He was worried about them boys getting a hold of you.

01:36:43.980 --> 01:36:45.240
Yes.

01:36:45.240 --> 01:36:47.220
So he put you in the virgin vault.

01:36:47.220 --> 01:36:51.360
[LAUGHTER] Exactly, which was perfect.

01:36:51.360 --> 01:36:53.160
Yeah. Perfect.

01:36:53.160 --> 01:36:55.860
Perfect.

01:36:55.860 --> 01:36:58.950
Mark wasn't too happy about it.

01:36:58.950 --> 01:37:02.385
Pretty upset about it.

01:37:02.385 --> 01:37:06.270
What? No, come on, be fair.

01:37:06.270 --> 01:37:09.630
Oh, because of, "It's going to kill our mother.

01:37:09.630 --> 01:37:11.055
You're going to kill our mother.

01:37:11.055 --> 01:37:13.365
This is going to kill her, it's going to kill her.

01:37:13.365 --> 01:37:17.865
How can you do this to your mother?" Blah, blah, blah.

01:37:17.865 --> 01:37:20.760
Yeah, that's true. I didn't care.

01:37:20.760 --> 01:37:25.245
I didn't have an opinion about your sexuality.

01:37:25.245 --> 01:37:27.660
I mean, I was scared.

01:37:27.660 --> 01:37:29.985
I was only concerned about our mother,

01:37:29.985 --> 01:37:31.860
that's all, handling it.

01:37:31.860 --> 01:37:35.770
Right. No, but you scared me that night.

01:37:36.170 --> 01:37:38.700
It was like, damn, that was my first

01:37:38.700 --> 01:37:40.440
coming out experience, really,

01:37:40.440 --> 01:37:43.920
in terms of [LAUGHTER].

01:37:43.920 --> 01:37:45.540
Yeah. It was like, "Fuck."

01:37:45.540 --> 01:37:48.720
[LAUGHTER] I don't know if I can handle this or not.

01:37:48.720 --> 01:37:50.010
[LAUGHTER]

01:37:50.010 --> 01:37:52.995
Yeah, I was just being protective of mom,

01:37:52.995 --> 01:37:57.975
but I never once tried to change your mind.

01:37:57.975 --> 01:37:58.560
Right.

01:37:58.560 --> 01:37:59.310
Criticize you.

01:37:59.310 --> 01:37:59.410
True.

01:37:59.410 --> 01:38:02.490
For being gay or whatever.

01:38:02.490 --> 01:38:03.405
True.

01:38:03.405 --> 01:38:06.010
Because it really was

01:38:07.970 --> 01:38:11.190
the '70s were still the leftover '60s.

01:38:11.190 --> 01:38:13.800
It was live and let live,

01:38:13.800 --> 01:38:18.610
and I believe that everybody should be happy.

01:38:18.950 --> 01:38:21.270
Just don't mess with my mother. [LAUGHTER]

01:38:21.270 --> 01:38:29.440
Right.

01:38:29.440 --> 01:38:32.510
That was interesting.

01:38:32.510 --> 01:38:34.970
Losing the family dynamic,

01:38:34.970 --> 01:38:44.270
losing that Christian family was quite a bit,

01:38:44.270 --> 01:38:46.520
and really the only group that really stuck with me

01:38:46.520 --> 01:38:49.925
was the women I met at Women's Space.

01:38:49.925 --> 01:38:54.320
They were my community.

01:38:54.320 --> 01:38:57.810
So they really did step up.

01:38:58.210 --> 01:39:06.230
They originally engaged you as the sister of [LAUGHTER]

01:39:06.230 --> 01:39:09.950
Mark Barroso. [LAUGHTER]

01:39:09.950 --> 01:39:12.110
Did that actually require

01:39:12.110 --> 01:39:17.254
any getting over or was it just an observation?

01:39:17.254 --> 01:39:20.555
I think they thought it was just hilarious.

01:39:20.555 --> 01:39:20.790
Yeah.

01:39:20.790 --> 01:39:24.690
That Mark Barroso would have a lesbian sister,

01:39:25.960 --> 01:39:30.230
and I had heard stories of him

01:39:30.230 --> 01:39:35.465
and in the activism, in the CT.

01:39:35.465 --> 01:39:36.995
What stories?

01:39:36.995 --> 01:39:39.320
I guess stuff he must have written. I don't know.

01:39:39.320 --> 01:39:45.070
That's what I remember was that you had made it known.

01:39:45.070 --> 01:39:48.430
For Denim Day, there were some of

01:39:48.430 --> 01:39:52.450
the guys who wore skirts and protested.

01:39:52.450 --> 01:39:55.620
Or in support?

01:39:55.620 --> 01:39:58.490
Wearing a skirt on Denim Day, hell no.

01:39:58.490 --> 01:40:00.110
You're supposed to wear your denim.

01:40:00.110 --> 01:40:03.290
No. What? [LAUGHTER]

01:40:03.290 --> 01:40:05.165
I'm trying to rewrite history here. Come on.

01:40:05.165 --> 01:40:05.690
I see that.

01:40:05.690 --> 01:40:06.245
Work with me.

01:40:06.245 --> 01:40:07.640
No, not this one.

01:40:07.640 --> 01:40:10.790
[LAUGHTER] I'll give you

01:40:10.790 --> 01:40:14.300
a lot but not this one [LAUGHTER]

01:40:14.300 --> 01:40:22.950
So I learned a lot about my brother [NOISE] from them.

01:40:23.440 --> 01:40:27.530
Mark, what did you write?

01:40:27.530 --> 01:40:30.800
You were at Tech for Denim Day.

01:40:30.800 --> 01:40:34.190
Lisa came after, just after in the fall after.

01:40:34.190 --> 01:40:34.970
Just after.

01:40:34.970 --> 01:40:38.090
But it was still a thing people were talking about,

01:40:38.090 --> 01:40:40.835
the women's collective, the GSA, the campus.

01:40:40.835 --> 01:40:45.770
So how did you get that reputation that Lisa encountered?

01:40:45.770 --> 01:40:51.580
Well, Tim Chase actually wrote,

01:40:51.580 --> 01:40:55.180
there was a pro and con editorial on Denim Day,

01:40:55.180 --> 01:40:56.350
which I want to emphasize.

01:40:56.350 --> 01:40:59.320
It was not pro or con gay rights.

01:40:59.320 --> 01:41:06.260
It was about the validity of the protest or the action.

01:41:09.420 --> 01:41:12.055
I may have written something.

01:41:12.055 --> 01:41:14.260
I was just churning out copy,

01:41:14.260 --> 01:41:17.530
so I don't know specifically what I wrote.

01:41:17.530 --> 01:41:29.120
[LAUGHTER]

01:41:29.120 --> 01:41:30.560
[NOISE] We all wanted to be a Hunter S.

01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:33.095
Thompson rolled into John Belushi,

01:41:33.095 --> 01:41:34.985
rolled into Carl Bernstein.

01:41:34.985 --> 01:41:41.105
So it was a real schizophrenic persona I had.

01:41:41.105 --> 01:41:44.990
I might be writing an investigative piece one week.

01:41:44.990 --> 01:41:48.570
In the next week, I'm writing some off-color humor.

01:41:48.700 --> 01:41:52.205
The off-color humor was probably what got me in trouble.

01:41:52.205 --> 01:41:53.105
Probably.

01:41:53.105 --> 01:41:54.215
With your friends.

01:41:54.215 --> 01:41:55.160
I could see that.

01:41:55.160 --> 01:41:55.535
Yeah.

01:41:55.535 --> 01:41:56.450
I could see you doing that.

01:41:56.450 --> 01:41:58.820
But I know in our editorial meetings,

01:41:58.820 --> 01:42:01.460
we would all discuss the position

01:42:01.460 --> 01:42:04.279
the paper was going to take and it was a split.

01:42:04.279 --> 01:42:05.810
I agreed with Tim.

01:42:05.810 --> 01:42:10.370
I thought Denim Day was a dumb idea because to me,

01:42:10.370 --> 01:42:14.825
it was like saying if you support gay rights, wear shoes.

01:42:14.825 --> 01:42:19.010
Why don't you do pink

01:42:19.010 --> 01:42:22.040
shirt or something that

01:42:22.040 --> 01:42:26.190
identified you as a supporter of gay rights?

01:42:26.560 --> 01:42:31.265
So it was more of a technical objection I had.

01:42:31.265 --> 01:42:34.145
Picking denim jeans.

01:42:34.145 --> 01:42:34.495
Yes.

01:42:34.495 --> 01:42:35.960
That's called normal.

01:42:35.960 --> 01:42:37.985
Yes, that's mine.

01:42:37.985 --> 01:42:39.230
You can't take my clothes.

01:42:39.230 --> 01:42:41.840
[LAUGHTER]

01:42:41.840 --> 01:42:44.150
I get it now. All right.

01:42:44.150 --> 01:42:47.045
Like the pink ribbon for breast cancer thing.

01:42:47.045 --> 01:42:47.345
Yeah.

01:42:47.345 --> 01:42:49.580
Don't link those two together.

01:42:49.580 --> 01:42:55.130
Yeah. I didn't get

01:42:55.130 --> 01:42:59.370
it that the point was to start a dialogue.

01:43:00.100 --> 01:43:02.850
If I understand correctly,

01:43:02.850 --> 01:43:06.670
the point was [NOISE] to start

01:43:06.670 --> 01:43:11.810
a discussion between supporters and maybe non-supporters.

01:43:11.810 --> 01:43:12.890
Just get people talking

01:43:12.890 --> 01:43:16.430
about these invisible people among us.

01:43:16.430 --> 01:43:17.240
True.

01:43:17.240 --> 01:43:17.810
Right?

01:43:17.810 --> 01:43:18.080
Right.

01:43:18.080 --> 01:43:20.120
Which is a good thing. I didn't understand that at

01:43:20.120 --> 01:43:22.880
the time but that was the point.

01:43:22.880 --> 01:43:24.270
Right.

01:43:24.280 --> 01:43:28.260
I thought the point was to make a show.

01:43:29.560 --> 01:43:35.300
I was wrong. But Sherry Wood,

01:43:35.300 --> 01:43:37.159
who was the editor,

01:43:37.159 --> 01:43:41.690
wrote the pro-Denim Day editorial

01:43:41.690 --> 01:43:43.640
and I think she's going to be here.

01:43:43.640 --> 01:43:44.960
I think so.

01:43:44.960 --> 01:43:46.550
I think you're all going to interview her

01:43:46.550 --> 01:43:47.990
via Skype or something.

01:43:47.990 --> 01:43:53.460
[OVERLAPPING] She was ahead of her time.

01:43:54.490 --> 01:43:59.390
Except for not keeping my request.

01:43:59.390 --> 01:44:04.550
[LAUGHTER] Just saying.

01:44:04.550 --> 01:44:06.545
[OVERLAPPING] Okay, got it. Connecting the dots.

01:44:06.545 --> 01:44:07.940
Just saying.

01:44:07.940 --> 01:44:10.380
Let her know.

01:44:11.800 --> 01:44:17.330
Anyway, that was my take on Denim Day.

01:44:17.330 --> 01:44:18.710
Does that make sense?

01:44:18.710 --> 01:44:23.660
Yes. Was it Sherry's argument that helped to

01:44:23.660 --> 01:44:25.655
evolve your understanding of what

01:44:25.655 --> 01:44:26.990
they were attempting to do or is

01:44:26.990 --> 01:44:30.245
that something you came upon later after the fact?

01:44:30.245 --> 01:44:33.080
Well, I'm a slow learner.

01:44:33.080 --> 01:44:35.570
You have to plant an idea in my head,

01:44:35.570 --> 01:44:37.610
and it has to be fertilized,

01:44:37.610 --> 01:44:39.860
and watered before it spreads.

01:44:39.860 --> 01:44:44.210
I think Denim Day and Sherry's article,

01:44:44.210 --> 01:44:47.705
made me begin thinking about it more.

01:44:47.705 --> 01:44:50.825
Of course, having a gay sister,

01:44:50.825 --> 01:44:53.045
made me think about it more.

01:44:53.045 --> 01:44:56.160
Now, I think I understand why she told you.

01:45:02.830 --> 01:45:05.330
She probably did out me just

01:45:05.330 --> 01:45:08.405
because it would help you, maybe.

01:45:08.405 --> 01:45:09.935
I don't know. You know what I'm saying?

01:45:09.935 --> 01:45:10.865
Right?

01:45:10.865 --> 01:45:11.570
Okay.

01:45:11.570 --> 01:45:13.385
Like, "Hey, Mark.

01:45:13.385 --> 01:45:16.430
You're such a jerk about queers.

01:45:16.430 --> 01:45:20.180
Guess what? Your sister is queer, Mark Barroso."

01:45:20.180 --> 01:45:22.055
I was not a jerk about queers.

01:45:22.055 --> 01:45:24.575
I was really a live-and-let-live guy.

01:45:24.575 --> 01:45:28.445
I just didn't understand gay.

01:45:28.445 --> 01:45:37.700
But you have a way of speaking with gruff. [NOISE]

01:45:37.700 --> 01:45:40.070
What am I, Mr. McGruff or something?

01:45:40.070 --> 01:45:45.230
Maybe. [LAUGHTER]

01:45:45.230 --> 01:45:47.810
[NOISE] Oh, my goodness. This would

01:45:47.810 --> 01:45:50.600
be that counterpoint to Sherry Wood's op-ed

01:45:50.600 --> 01:45:53.210
written by Tim Chase aka

01:45:53.210 --> 01:45:56.915
possibly also Mark Barroso. We're not sure.

01:45:56.915 --> 01:46:00.620
Tomorrow, much to the chagrin of many students,

01:46:00.620 --> 01:46:03.020
the Gay Student Alliance will sponsor Denim Day.

01:46:03.020 --> 01:46:04.370
Judging from the flood of mail

01:46:04.370 --> 01:46:06.950
we have received in opposition to this day,

01:46:06.950 --> 01:46:08.600
we must conclude that a great number of

01:46:08.600 --> 01:46:11.180
students find the whole concept very disturbing.

01:46:11.180 --> 01:46:13.010
They should, not that

01:46:13.010 --> 01:46:15.350
some gay awareness day is bad and no doubt

01:46:15.350 --> 01:46:17.510
few people would have cared if gay supporters were

01:46:17.510 --> 01:46:20.270
supposed to wear red bandanas or straw hats.

01:46:20.270 --> 01:46:23.000
The disconcerting aspect of the whole incident

01:46:23.000 --> 01:46:26.030
is the choice of denim as the medium of recognition.

01:46:26.030 --> 01:46:28.415
On an average day, according to James Dean,

01:46:28.415 --> 01:46:31.730
Vice President for Student Affairs here at Tech,

01:46:31.730 --> 01:46:34.235
some 7,000 students are wearing denim.

01:46:34.235 --> 01:46:37.580
Why not say, everyone who supports gays wears a shirt?

01:46:37.580 --> 01:46:39.590
The net result would be the same.

01:46:39.590 --> 01:46:41.510
Actually, there may be more support

01:46:41.510 --> 01:46:43.280
for gay rights than most people believe.

01:46:43.280 --> 01:46:44.900
A recent poll by the Post

01:46:44.900 --> 01:46:46.580
indicated that nearly 50 percent

01:46:46.580 --> 01:46:48.110
of the population of New York would

01:46:48.110 --> 01:46:50.060
support gay rights legislation.

01:46:50.060 --> 01:46:52.115
Time, July 1978.

01:46:52.115 --> 01:46:54.695
The issue of gay rights is not the question.

01:46:54.695 --> 01:46:56.240
It would be difficult to justify

01:46:56.240 --> 01:46:58.550
legalized discrimination against gays.

01:46:58.550 --> 01:47:00.710
While one might not be willing to ask for

01:47:00.710 --> 01:47:02.810
legalized discrimination against gays,

01:47:02.810 --> 01:47:05.210
he could draw the line when this group attempts to

01:47:05.210 --> 01:47:07.910
impose its ideals on the general public.

01:47:07.910 --> 01:47:10.100
Reverend Ron Ballard of Emporia,

01:47:10.100 --> 01:47:12.305
Kansas may have put it best when he said,

01:47:12.305 --> 01:47:13.820
"We are not advocating

01:47:13.820 --> 01:47:16.820
any new laws to persecute them, gays.

01:47:16.820 --> 01:47:19.460
If their sexual preference is kept to themselves,

01:47:19.460 --> 01:47:22.130
that is within the range of what we can accept."

01:47:22.130 --> 01:47:24.740
Time, May 1978.

01:47:24.740 --> 01:47:29.570
This is the major point that the GSA had kept to itself,

01:47:29.570 --> 01:47:31.340
rather than drawing attention to

01:47:31.340 --> 01:47:33.305
itself in the manner that it has,

01:47:33.305 --> 01:47:35.960
this whole issue would never have come up.

01:47:35.960 --> 01:47:39.320
Instead, students are now forced to make

01:47:39.320 --> 01:47:40.940
a decision concerning their stand

01:47:40.940 --> 01:47:42.650
on gays before Wednesday.

01:47:42.650 --> 01:47:45.050
This type of publicity may not be

01:47:45.050 --> 01:47:47.555
particularly beneficial to the GSA.

01:47:47.555 --> 01:47:49.430
The GSA's stand on

01:47:49.430 --> 01:47:52.010
sexual behavior may be fine for them but

01:47:52.010 --> 01:47:54.170
they should refrain from forcing the issue

01:47:54.170 --> 01:47:57.420
on other people, Tim Chase.

01:47:58.480 --> 01:48:01.400
I'm so calling the Gay Student Alliance.

01:48:01.400 --> 01:48:06.185
I'm ready for this because I was not out to anyone.

01:48:06.185 --> 01:48:08.285
So I called the Gay Student Alliance

01:48:08.285 --> 01:48:09.920
and Leroy answers and I'm like,

01:48:09.920 --> 01:48:11.120
"Leroy, is that you?"

01:48:11.120 --> 01:48:12.140
He goes, "Helen, is that you?

01:48:12.140 --> 01:48:14.750
Come on down." So downstairs, I went.

01:48:14.750 --> 01:48:17.930
There was Leroy and Owen and he said,

01:48:17.930 --> 01:48:21.410
"Let me call Nancy Kelly" and she

01:48:21.410 --> 01:48:25.145
was Assistant President of GSA. We've got another one.

01:48:25.145 --> 01:48:28.355
Let me call Nancy Kelly. I'd have to think, Oh my God.

01:48:28.355 --> 01:48:30.110
I've never met a lesbian before.

01:48:30.110 --> 01:48:32.105
I wonder what she looks like.

01:48:32.105 --> 01:48:34.040
All this internalized homophobia

01:48:34.040 --> 01:48:35.765
we're raised with at that time.

01:48:35.765 --> 01:48:37.340
She walks through the door.

01:48:37.340 --> 01:48:42.830
She doesn't look gay or odd.

01:48:42.830 --> 01:48:44.870
I don't know what I was expecting,

01:48:44.870 --> 01:48:47.600
Medusa with snakes coming out of our head.

01:48:47.600 --> 01:48:51.650
I realized my own internalized homophobia. This is crazy.

01:48:51.650 --> 01:48:56.570
So [NOISE] all of a sudden, I had 15,

01:48:56.570 --> 01:49:04.610
20 friends and my roommates

01:49:04.610 --> 01:49:06.170
were wondering where did

01:49:06.170 --> 01:49:07.760
you get all these friends all of a sudden?

01:49:07.760 --> 01:49:09.860
[LAUGHTER] Hush.

01:49:09.860 --> 01:49:15.305
One of them was gay also and she knew I was gay,

01:49:15.305 --> 01:49:18.515
but I found my tribe.

01:49:18.515 --> 01:49:20.960
Oh my goodness. I had found my tribe

01:49:20.960 --> 01:49:25.085
and I'd found people who spoke my language.

01:49:25.085 --> 01:49:31.230
We called ourselves chosen family way back then.

01:49:32.920 --> 01:49:35.990
I was high for months.

01:49:35.990 --> 01:49:37.970
I'd finally found people that were

01:49:37.970 --> 01:49:40.770
like me, that I could relate to.

01:49:40.780 --> 01:49:44.570
It was a social thing at that time,

01:49:44.570 --> 01:49:46.980
[NOISE] more of a social thing.

01:49:47.020 --> 01:49:49.895
I'm sorry. What year was that?

01:49:49.895 --> 01:49:51.830
That was 1978.

01:49:51.830 --> 01:49:55.460
I came here 1978, '79, '80, '81.

01:49:55.460 --> 01:49:57.810
I took my time.

01:49:58.910 --> 01:50:00.900
Took your time finishing.

01:50:00.900 --> 01:50:02.610
I took my time finishing because I

01:50:02.610 --> 01:50:06.105
was a work-study student.

01:50:06.105 --> 01:50:09.960
I worked on the experimental farms here at Virginia Tech.

01:50:09.960 --> 01:50:12.975
I was an animal science major, of course.

01:50:12.975 --> 01:50:17.910
I was interested in all different things.

01:50:17.910 --> 01:50:19.995
I wanted to take my time.

01:50:19.995 --> 01:50:24.670
I was part of the Block and Braudel Club.

01:50:28.160 --> 01:50:32.730
I love the animal science side of things and I

01:50:32.730 --> 01:50:36.780
threw myself into the whole meat science.

01:50:36.780 --> 01:50:38.310
I had a hard time with

01:50:38.310 --> 01:50:42.480
it slaughtering animals and I became vegetarian.

01:50:42.480 --> 01:50:49.740
Anyway, Nancy,

01:50:49.740 --> 01:50:54.105
she took me under her wing and she was an instigator.

01:50:54.105 --> 01:51:02.190
She used to use the term consciousness raising.

01:51:02.190 --> 01:51:03.210
It's the first time I ever heard

01:51:03.210 --> 01:51:04.965
the term consciousness raising.

01:51:04.965 --> 01:51:08.650
We got to raise your conscious. I was like, "Okay."

01:51:08.990 --> 01:51:11.505
One day she calls me up, she goes,

01:51:11.505 --> 01:51:16.620
"I need for you to be on this panel of gay and lesbians."

01:51:16.620 --> 01:51:19.725
It's not an animal science quad because

01:51:19.725 --> 01:51:21.420
the thought of coming out in

01:51:21.420 --> 01:51:23.730
the animal science quad just freaked me out.

01:51:23.730 --> 01:51:29.190
It was across the quad

01:51:29.190 --> 01:51:32.220
and it was a deviance in society class.

01:51:32.220 --> 01:51:33.915
She goes, "I want you to be part

01:51:33.915 --> 01:51:35.400
of a panel of deviants in society."

01:51:35.400 --> 01:51:36.150
I said, "What's a deviant?"

01:51:36.150 --> 01:51:38.235
She goes, "You're a deviant and you're coming."

01:51:38.235 --> 01:51:40.980
I said, I really don't like that word

01:51:40.980 --> 01:51:43.380
deviant and I've just

01:51:43.380 --> 01:51:45.465
finally embraced the word lesbian

01:51:45.465 --> 01:51:48.195
and I do not like deviant.

01:51:48.195 --> 01:51:51.420
What the heck, they're calling us deviance now?

01:51:51.420 --> 01:51:54.630
What is going on? She goes,

01:51:54.630 --> 01:51:56.400
"I need you to be on this panel

01:51:56.400 --> 01:51:58.410
and it's going to be five of us.

01:51:58.410 --> 01:52:00.330
Come on, do it." I said, "Okay."

01:52:00.330 --> 01:52:02.610
She says, "Nobody in animal science is going to be there.

01:52:02.610 --> 01:52:04.920
This is a different college

01:52:04.920 --> 01:52:07.560
and this is more like sociology-psychology."

01:52:07.560 --> 01:52:13.530
I had a sense of somebody is got to do it.

01:52:13.530 --> 01:52:14.925
Somebody's got to show their face.

01:52:14.925 --> 01:52:18.300
We got to start coming out to some people because we are

01:52:18.300 --> 01:52:22.810
not these monsters, we're not crazy.

01:52:23.000 --> 01:52:26.250
I got on that panel and I look

01:52:26.250 --> 01:52:29.055
over and people start talking and asking you questions.

01:52:29.055 --> 01:52:31.110
Then it dawned on me, was like, that Nancy Kelly,

01:52:31.110 --> 01:52:32.220
she got me out here because I'm

01:52:32.220 --> 01:52:34.750
the only virgin on this panel.

01:52:37.220 --> 01:52:40.335
She was smart, she had everybody represented.

01:52:40.335 --> 01:52:41.985
There was the bisexual

01:52:41.985 --> 01:52:46.510
and all these different diversity, and I was the virgin.

01:52:46.520 --> 01:52:49.800
You would engage with the students and it was

01:52:49.800 --> 01:52:51.180
funny because you'd get some funny

01:52:51.180 --> 01:52:52.620
little questions and, of course,

01:52:52.620 --> 01:52:54.300
they would come to me and they're like, "Well,

01:52:54.300 --> 01:52:57.720
how can you be sure you're gay, you're a virgin.

01:52:57.720 --> 01:52:59.985
You've never even slept with anybody?"

01:52:59.985 --> 01:53:03.450
At that time in 1978,

01:53:03.450 --> 01:53:06.630
'79, there was a lot of virgins on campus.

01:53:06.630 --> 01:53:10.320
What I said was, is there any virgins here in this class?

01:53:10.320 --> 01:53:12.045
My goodness, how do you all know you're straight?

01:53:12.045 --> 01:53:13.935
You'd come back with those kind of things.

01:53:13.935 --> 01:53:16.950
By the end of the class,

01:53:16.950 --> 01:53:19.695
you had become buddies with them,

01:53:19.695 --> 01:53:22.005
friend with them. They liked you.

01:53:22.005 --> 01:53:24.930
Some of them were angry about it.

01:53:24.930 --> 01:53:26.880
But you were able to calm people

01:53:26.880 --> 01:53:28.815
down and make them think.

01:53:28.815 --> 01:53:32.970
You could tell you had some light bulbs go off.

01:53:32.970 --> 01:53:35.039
I did about three of those classes

01:53:35.039 --> 01:53:39.105
and that was good for me.

01:53:39.105 --> 01:53:41.955
Mostly those were positive experiences?

01:53:41.955 --> 01:53:45.810
Positive experiences but I

01:53:45.810 --> 01:53:48.915
felt like I couldn't not do it in animal science.

01:53:48.915 --> 01:53:51.990
I was like walking two different worlds.

01:53:51.990 --> 01:53:54.720
I was totally in the closet when it came

01:53:54.720 --> 01:53:57.555
to animal science and my animal science fraternity.

01:53:57.555 --> 01:54:01.080
I was on the meat and meat judging teams.

01:54:01.080 --> 01:54:06.970
I loved being there.

01:54:08.000 --> 01:54:12.310
I walked within two different worlds.

01:54:12.530 --> 01:54:18.280
As gay people at the time you had to put your mask on.

01:54:20.990 --> 01:54:23.580
Through your participation in those panels,

01:54:23.580 --> 01:54:25.080
you were making some kind of

01:54:25.080 --> 01:54:27.270
a difference in folk's perception?

01:54:27.270 --> 01:54:37.110
Yes. Well, it's the first time

01:54:37.110 --> 01:54:40.810
people stood up and said, "I'm gay."

01:54:42.410 --> 01:54:46.620
I would wish would wake up one day

01:54:46.620 --> 01:54:51.120
and everybody that was gay had

01:54:51.120 --> 01:54:53.010
different colored hair or a dot on

01:54:53.010 --> 01:54:55.800
their head and that would identify

01:54:55.800 --> 01:54:58.260
them who they were and people would just have to get

01:54:58.260 --> 01:55:01.170
over it because there was so many of us.

01:55:01.170 --> 01:55:04.570
We were all amongst everybody.

01:55:06.340 --> 01:55:09.890
So somebody had to start putting a face on it.

01:55:09.890 --> 01:55:11.280
Yeah.

01:55:14.110 --> 01:55:19.015
January 19th, 1979 to the editor.

01:55:19.015 --> 01:55:20.580
I'm sitting here in the middle of

01:55:20.580 --> 01:55:24.285
my 11 o'clock class this fine Wednesday, Gay Day,

01:55:24.285 --> 01:55:25.710
writing this letter because

01:55:25.710 --> 01:55:28.590
the intense scrutiny and attended loathing I'm

01:55:28.590 --> 01:55:30.840
receiving makes it infeasible for me to

01:55:30.840 --> 01:55:34.080
consider anything but getting this letter written.

01:55:34.080 --> 01:55:37.440
Look, I'm going to the garage after this class.

01:55:37.440 --> 01:55:39.150
Do you want me to get oil and grease or

01:55:39.150 --> 01:55:41.070
something on my good pants?

01:55:41.070 --> 01:55:42.600
No. Me neither.

01:55:42.600 --> 01:55:44.415
So I'm wearing jeans.

01:55:44.415 --> 01:55:47.010
So what? Screw you all.

01:55:47.010 --> 01:55:49.500
Anybody wearing no jeans today on purpose is

01:55:49.500 --> 01:55:52.845
obviously insecure about his or her own sexuality.

01:55:52.845 --> 01:55:55.090
Kevin FC bring.

01:55:55.880 --> 01:55:59.970
Same day, Collegiate Times to the editor.

01:55:59.970 --> 01:56:02.610
I wish I had worn jeans today.

01:56:02.610 --> 01:56:04.530
Looking around me at the rows of

01:56:04.530 --> 01:56:06.210
corduroy and skirted legs,

01:56:06.210 --> 01:56:08.595
I feel a growing embarrassment.

01:56:08.595 --> 01:56:11.460
How hard we try to show how straight we are.

01:56:11.460 --> 01:56:13.170
The individual has left each

01:56:13.170 --> 01:56:15.090
one of us, venomless at that.

01:56:15.090 --> 01:56:18.420
Did you walk around on campus today gawking at the jeans?

01:56:18.420 --> 01:56:20.310
Did you women who will graduate to

01:56:20.310 --> 01:56:22.440
higher salaries and greater opportunities

01:56:22.440 --> 01:56:24.225
know that behind those jeans

01:56:24.225 --> 01:56:26.895
is one of the major forces behind your rights?

01:56:26.895 --> 01:56:29.625
I don't know about you, but I was embarrassed.

01:56:29.625 --> 01:56:30.960
Embarrassed to be part of

01:56:30.960 --> 01:56:32.700
any movement and there is a movement

01:56:32.700 --> 01:56:36.090
behind our cords against freedom, any kind of freedom.

01:56:36.090 --> 01:56:38.580
I wish I had worn jeans and a jean jacket

01:56:38.580 --> 01:56:41.710
and jean shoes. Diane Dolton.

01:56:42.470 --> 01:56:48.640
Did you meet any form of persecution here in Blacksburg?

01:56:48.770 --> 01:56:51.360
I don't think it was any different

01:56:51.360 --> 01:56:53.460
than I would have encountered anywhere

01:56:53.460 --> 01:56:56.325
else in America except for maybe gay havens like

01:56:56.325 --> 01:56:58.680
San Francisco or Fire

01:56:58.680 --> 01:57:02.025
Island or whatever, [LAUGHTER] Key West.

01:57:02.025 --> 01:57:07.660
I didn't feel particularly put upon being here.

01:57:07.790 --> 01:57:13.500
I've never felt comfortable anywhere [LAUGHTER] to

01:57:13.500 --> 01:57:15.360
the degree where I could completely let down

01:57:15.360 --> 01:57:18.750
my guard and always feel safe.

01:57:18.750 --> 01:57:20.700
It's just something that gave people don't get

01:57:20.700 --> 01:57:22.680
to experience, I think.

01:57:22.680 --> 01:57:25.830
At least people at my age are just

01:57:25.830 --> 01:57:27.660
aware of the possibilities of what

01:57:27.660 --> 01:57:30.520
could happen if you were too open.

01:57:31.580 --> 01:57:33.990
As nice as it is,

01:57:33.990 --> 01:57:35.955
[LAUGHTER] as good as it's gotten,

01:57:35.955 --> 01:57:38.100
I always have the lingering,

01:57:38.100 --> 01:57:40.815
lurking suspicion, I guess.

01:57:40.815 --> 01:57:43.125
I think I'll always have it.

01:57:43.125 --> 01:57:47.850
I'm not constantly up nervous and feeling in danger,

01:57:47.850 --> 01:57:50.325
but I'm just aware.

01:57:50.325 --> 01:57:53.369
There were episodes and events here in Blacksburg

01:57:53.369 --> 01:57:57.435
that fed that that could have happened anywhere.

01:57:57.435 --> 01:57:58.485
Yeah.

01:57:58.485 --> 01:58:01.215
Harassment, just personal harassment,

01:58:01.215 --> 01:58:04.320
violence against people I knew and things like that.

01:58:04.320 --> 01:58:06.150
Did you experience violence?

01:58:06.150 --> 01:58:06.825
Myself?

01:58:06.825 --> 01:58:07.925
Yeah.

01:58:07.925 --> 01:58:12.975
No. But I had friends who were killed, murdered,

01:58:12.975 --> 01:58:20.535
beaten here in Blacksburg. That was enough.

01:58:20.535 --> 01:58:21.010
Yeah.

01:58:21.010 --> 01:58:22.180
Yeah.

01:58:25.010 --> 01:58:29.265
What was the nature of your involvement with them?

01:58:29.265 --> 01:58:33.525
Well, the meetings, of course.

01:58:33.525 --> 01:58:34.770
It's how I got to know everybody.

01:58:34.770 --> 01:58:37.575
They had regular weekly meeting or something like that.

01:58:37.575 --> 01:58:39.300
Maybe every other week.

01:58:39.300 --> 01:58:43.005
My involvement immediately really

01:58:43.005 --> 01:58:47.560
started to focus around public speaking.

01:58:49.190 --> 01:58:51.930
The first time I did it, I did it with Nancy.

01:58:51.930 --> 01:58:55.290
We spoke to some humanities class.

01:58:55.290 --> 01:58:58.570
Anthropology, which I don't think they offer anymore.

01:59:00.020 --> 01:59:02.715
They were looking for volunteers.

01:59:02.715 --> 01:59:06.630
Some professors and instructors were asking for

01:59:06.630 --> 01:59:10.200
people to come and be available to talk to classes,

01:59:10.200 --> 01:59:14.490
answer questions, and not really give a presentation,

01:59:14.490 --> 01:59:15.960
but just be available.

01:59:15.960 --> 01:59:17.580
I said, "Well, I'll do that.

01:59:17.580 --> 01:59:18.930
Yeah, that sounds interesting."

01:59:18.930 --> 01:59:21.270
[LAUGHTER] It was.

01:59:21.270 --> 01:59:23.700
The first one was pretty horrible.

01:59:23.700 --> 01:59:26.580
The professor was really

01:59:26.580 --> 01:59:31.020
hostile and pretty much encouraged some of the guys

01:59:31.020 --> 01:59:34.770
in the class to attack us verbally

01:59:34.770 --> 01:59:40.240
and make it difficult to carry on the presentation.

01:59:41.000 --> 01:59:45.720
I have a friend today who was in that class,

01:59:45.720 --> 01:59:47.880
who I did not know at the time.

01:59:47.880 --> 01:59:49.710
We've had a friendship now for

01:59:49.710 --> 01:59:51.750
over 40 years and it's all based on that one

01:59:51.750 --> 01:59:53.865
experience [LAUGHTER] of him being

01:59:53.865 --> 01:59:56.565
embarrassed at what was going on,

01:59:56.565 --> 01:59:58.725
the situation for us when we were in the class.

01:59:58.725 --> 02:00:02.490
But Nancy took care of it by bringing

02:00:02.490 --> 02:00:04.260
up an incident that she'd been

02:00:04.260 --> 02:00:07.005
involved with before she came out of the closet.

02:00:07.005 --> 02:00:09.390
She had a roommate who was in a class that was

02:00:09.390 --> 02:00:12.645
also inviting gay people to come and speak.

02:00:12.645 --> 02:00:14.670
Nancy pointed out that when she went,

02:00:14.670 --> 02:00:15.810
she was the one that was making

02:00:15.810 --> 02:00:19.140
these nasty remarks to the guests. [LAUGHTER]

02:00:19.140 --> 02:00:20.085
She told us that story.

02:00:20.085 --> 02:00:24.750
Yeah. The best defense is a good offense.

02:00:24.750 --> 02:00:27.180
That shut him up, but it

02:00:27.180 --> 02:00:30.150
also was an educational experience for me too.

02:00:30.150 --> 02:00:33.790
Don't take the bait and don't give it back.

02:00:34.040 --> 02:00:36.630
That worked pretty well after that.

02:00:36.630 --> 02:00:38.340
We did it dozens,

02:00:38.340 --> 02:00:39.420
I did over 100 of them,

02:00:39.420 --> 02:00:42.450
I'm sure, these presentations over several years.

02:00:42.450 --> 02:00:47.100
Not just here, but in Roanoke College, Hollins,

02:00:47.100 --> 02:00:52.840
Ferrum, Radford, for eight or nine years like that.

02:00:54.110 --> 02:00:57.510
That was great. I loved that. [LAUGHTER]

02:00:57.510 --> 02:00:58.920
Going around to different colleges, yeah?

02:00:58.920 --> 02:01:00.375
It was fantastic.

02:01:00.375 --> 02:01:01.215
Why?

02:01:01.215 --> 02:01:03.090
Very effective. I mean,

02:01:03.090 --> 02:01:05.325
people would come up after the class

02:01:05.325 --> 02:01:07.740
sometimes in a state of shock.

02:01:07.740 --> 02:01:10.470
They couldn't believe that they had been so stupid.

02:01:10.470 --> 02:01:11.940
[LAUGHTER] It was just

02:01:11.940 --> 02:01:15.495
so unaware and it was a revelation.

02:01:15.495 --> 02:01:18.120
It was some really emotional encounters

02:01:18.120 --> 02:01:21.010
sometimes with people like that.

02:01:21.470 --> 02:01:25.110
Is it that they're

02:01:25.110 --> 02:01:28.680
unaware of the existence of gay people?

02:01:28.680 --> 02:01:30.930
They had never encountered gay people.

02:01:30.930 --> 02:01:34.545
They had only encountered the popular conception,

02:01:34.545 --> 02:01:39.360
which was really negative, extremely negative.

02:01:39.360 --> 02:01:41.385
People have no idea now,

02:01:41.385 --> 02:01:44.260
what it was like.

02:01:44.360 --> 02:01:46.560
I mean, the subject wasn't even

02:01:46.560 --> 02:01:48.135
discussed when I was growing up.

02:01:48.135 --> 02:01:51.285
There were no homosexual people,

02:01:51.285 --> 02:01:54.540
basically, or maybe Liberace.

02:01:54.540 --> 02:01:58.390
[LAUGHTER] That was it.

02:01:58.790 --> 02:02:03.315
The popular image was limited to a few caricatures.

02:02:03.315 --> 02:02:06.795
There was no ongoing open discussion

02:02:06.795 --> 02:02:10.270
about gay people that involved gay people.

02:02:10.520 --> 02:02:13.230
I think it was a shock to a lot of people to

02:02:13.230 --> 02:02:15.450
find out that gay people were human beings.

02:02:15.450 --> 02:02:18.810
I'll tell you there was one incident we had.

02:02:18.810 --> 02:02:21.870
In those days, Squires Student Center had

02:02:21.870 --> 02:02:27.730
an overhanging roof on the front toward College Avenue.

02:02:29.630 --> 02:02:32.775
There was space up above it and everything.

02:02:32.775 --> 02:02:34.020
It's changed so much.

02:02:34.020 --> 02:02:35.460
But anyway, every year they would have

02:02:35.460 --> 02:02:40.320
a student organizations fair

02:02:40.320 --> 02:02:41.550
under the tables from

02:02:41.550 --> 02:02:43.470
all the student organizations on campus.

02:02:43.470 --> 02:02:44.670
Then you'd come and look at them,

02:02:44.670 --> 02:02:46.590
pick up their literature

02:02:46.590 --> 02:02:48.270
and see if you were interested

02:02:48.270 --> 02:02:49.905
in joining any of these groups.

02:02:49.905 --> 02:02:51.930
We were for the first time,

02:02:51.930 --> 02:02:54.375
I believe it was in '80 probably

02:02:54.375 --> 02:02:58.110
or maybe the fall of '79, we had a table.

02:02:58.110 --> 02:03:00.405
I think it was Nancy and I,

02:03:00.405 --> 02:03:03.795
and I'm not sure who else,

02:03:03.795 --> 02:03:06.015
but we did it for a couple of days,

02:03:06.015 --> 02:03:08.010
might have been Sueann Brown.

02:03:08.010 --> 02:03:10.530
Our job was just to sit there and hand

02:03:10.530 --> 02:03:13.050
out literature to people who are interested.

02:03:13.050 --> 02:03:16.995
You have no [LAUGHTER] idea what that was like.

02:03:16.995 --> 02:03:20.880
It was as if two little aliens had come

02:03:20.880 --> 02:03:24.660
down and sat down their chairs there underneath the roof,

02:03:24.660 --> 02:03:26.130
like, what the hell is this?

02:03:26.130 --> 02:03:27.780
I mean, people were looking at us like we

02:03:27.780 --> 02:03:31.815
were not from this earth. It was amazing.

02:03:31.815 --> 02:03:33.180
Not thinking you were serious?

02:03:33.180 --> 02:03:33.620
[OVERLAPPING] Couldn't believe you'd step out there?

02:03:33.620 --> 02:03:35.400
Not thinking we were human. Not thinking

02:03:35.400 --> 02:03:36.840
we were human beings.

02:03:36.840 --> 02:03:40.725
I mean, they were looking at us like, what is this?

02:03:40.725 --> 02:03:43.035
How can this be in public?

02:03:43.035 --> 02:03:45.150
How can there be people here

02:03:45.150 --> 02:03:49.080
talking about this or exposing it to my eyes?

02:03:49.080 --> 02:03:52.260
How can this be? It was a shock for them.

02:03:52.260 --> 02:03:56.505
Interestingly, and we don't know who did this,

02:03:56.505 --> 02:03:59.070
but we were placed between the Baptist Student Union

02:03:59.070 --> 02:04:01.545
and the Campus Crusade for Christ.

02:04:01.545 --> 02:04:03.930
In between was the Gay Student Alliance?

02:04:03.930 --> 02:04:09.630
[LAUGHTER] They couldn't even look at us.

02:04:09.630 --> 02:04:12.825
It was as if there was a wall between us.

02:04:12.825 --> 02:04:15.495
That time, there was a lady who

02:04:15.495 --> 02:04:21.400
many Old Blacks burge-rs knew and loved, Emily Stewart.

02:04:21.770 --> 02:04:24.150
I don't know if she was the founder, but she was

02:04:24.150 --> 02:04:25.680
the major force behind

02:04:25.680 --> 02:04:29.505
the YMCA here on campus for many, many years.

02:04:29.505 --> 02:04:34.740
I had met her on a Y-hike in 1971,

02:04:34.740 --> 02:04:36.045
when I first came here.

02:04:36.045 --> 02:04:38.220
She and her husband lead the hike.

02:04:38.220 --> 02:04:41.250
Bob Stewart, he just recently died, 100 years old.

02:04:41.250 --> 02:04:48.914
But I had met Emily and we were acquaintances,

02:04:48.914 --> 02:04:50.280
becoming friends over the years,

02:04:50.280 --> 02:04:52.390
but she didn't I was gay.

02:04:52.430 --> 02:04:55.590
She happened to be walking into

02:04:55.590 --> 02:04:57.000
Squires that afternoon while

02:04:57.000 --> 02:04:58.290
we were sitting there at the table.

02:04:58.290 --> 02:05:01.800
[LAUGHTER] She looks at me, looks at the table,

02:05:01.800 --> 02:05:05.730
and just, "Wow, I didn't know that."

02:05:05.730 --> 02:05:07.470
Then she could see, that she saw we were

02:05:07.470 --> 02:05:09.585
chatting and she saw the situation,

02:05:09.585 --> 02:05:13.035
the people on either side of us, ignoring our existence.

02:05:13.035 --> 02:05:15.630
She went up to each of them and introduce them to me.

02:05:15.630 --> 02:05:21.930
[LAUGHTER] Just to be an agitator for good.

02:05:21.930 --> 02:05:25.230
But I guess what I remember about that most is

02:05:25.230 --> 02:05:27.960
just the shock that

02:05:27.960 --> 02:05:30.930
people experienced when they saw actual living,

02:05:30.930 --> 02:05:35.295
breathing homosexual people in public being normal.

02:05:35.295 --> 02:05:37.530
It was an absolute shock.

02:05:37.530 --> 02:05:40.500
I mean, when I think about it,

02:05:40.500 --> 02:05:44.445
I can't even believe that it was like that at anytime.

02:05:44.445 --> 02:05:52.680
It wasn't born of malice,

02:05:52.680 --> 02:05:55.065
It was born of ignorance.

02:05:55.065 --> 02:05:58.230
I think I'm just kinder to

02:05:58.230 --> 02:05:59.520
people who are ignorant than

02:05:59.520 --> 02:06:00.990
I am to people who are malicious.

02:06:00.990 --> 02:06:11.280
[LAUGHTER]

02:06:11.280 --> 02:06:13.290
If you were doing some outreach,

02:06:13.290 --> 02:06:19.500
feel you're making some positive accomplishments,

02:06:19.500 --> 02:06:23.940
and also taking this tack

02:06:23.940 --> 02:06:26.220
of forgiveness and addressing

02:06:26.220 --> 02:06:28.140
ignorance in a constructive manner,

02:06:28.140 --> 02:06:32.220
is that the the context within which you participated in?

02:06:32.220 --> 02:06:33.450
How much did you participate in

02:06:33.450 --> 02:06:36.150
the planning of the Denim Day?

02:06:36.150 --> 02:06:39.330
I guess as much as anybody in terms

02:06:39.330 --> 02:06:44.475
of us trying to come up with something,

02:06:44.475 --> 02:06:47.490
everybody contributed their thoughts and ideas.

02:06:47.490 --> 02:06:49.380
I can't remember that I had

02:06:49.380 --> 02:06:53.160
any particular specific suggestion to make or anything,

02:06:53.160 --> 02:06:55.020
or if I went along with what I

02:06:55.020 --> 02:06:58.215
thought were really good ideas.

02:06:58.215 --> 02:07:03.220
It intrigued me. I definitely wanted to do something.

02:07:05.270 --> 02:07:08.460
But I think Nancy and some of the others who

02:07:08.460 --> 02:07:11.220
were in there before me,

02:07:11.220 --> 02:07:16.680
who had brought this group together earlier than, I mean,

02:07:16.680 --> 02:07:18.450
not long before I joined it,

02:07:18.450 --> 02:07:21.150
but originally they were the real dynamos

02:07:21.150 --> 02:07:24.240
in the Denim Day and Gay Awareness Week.

02:07:24.240 --> 02:07:28.365
I mean, Nancy and several people.

02:07:28.365 --> 02:07:29.865
I don't know how many of them,

02:07:29.865 --> 02:07:31.260
some of them aren't still alive,

02:07:31.260 --> 02:07:34.050
but I don't know who will be here that you'll meet,

02:07:34.050 --> 02:07:37.390
but there's quite a few people.

02:07:37.640 --> 02:07:39.810
I wasn't on campus,

02:07:39.810 --> 02:07:42.490
I wasn't really a student,

02:07:43.070 --> 02:07:46.980
but I was as much as anybody,

02:07:46.980 --> 02:07:49.305
I guess, I was part of it.

02:07:49.305 --> 02:07:53.520
Did you have expectations as to how it would go?

02:07:53.520 --> 02:07:55.890
I think it went exactly as I expected It would go.

02:07:55.890 --> 02:08:02.954
[LAUGHTER] Outrage, stupidity, more ignorance,

02:08:02.954 --> 02:08:07.770
reaction, which was really what we were after.

02:08:07.770 --> 02:08:09.465
We were after a reaction.

02:08:09.465 --> 02:08:12.420
We were after getting

02:08:12.420 --> 02:08:13.830
people to think about

02:08:13.830 --> 02:08:16.430
it for the first time in their lives.

02:08:16.430 --> 02:08:18.410
Maybe actually be able to think about

02:08:18.410 --> 02:08:21.305
it in the context of real human beings.

02:08:21.305 --> 02:08:25.265
So that they would meet in the course of this exposition,

02:08:25.265 --> 02:08:28.265
this week of exposing ourselves to the community.

02:08:28.265 --> 02:08:31.515
Like, [NOISE], whether you like or not, we're here,

02:08:31.515 --> 02:08:34.500
and you can actually look at us and hear us,

02:08:34.500 --> 02:08:37.300
and talk to us if you want to.

02:08:38.300 --> 02:08:42.690
I didn't expect a wholesale change

02:08:42.690 --> 02:08:44.580
of heart and we certainly didn't get that,

02:08:44.580 --> 02:08:47.040
but there were certainly a lot of people

02:08:47.040 --> 02:08:50.830
motivated to come out and support us.

02:08:52.040 --> 02:08:54.389
It's a seed.

02:08:54.389 --> 02:08:56.890
You plant a seed like that.

02:08:57.140 --> 02:08:59.700
I think it had a tremendous effect on

02:08:59.700 --> 02:09:01.455
campus and in the town.

02:09:01.455 --> 02:09:04.140
In the town, the high school also.

02:09:04.140 --> 02:09:05.340
The kids at the high school did

02:09:05.340 --> 02:09:07.125
a Denim Day at the same time.

02:09:07.125 --> 02:09:07.410
Really?

02:09:07.410 --> 02:09:08.790
In Blacksburg High School.

02:09:08.790 --> 02:09:11.850
But of course, it was completely negative.

02:09:11.850 --> 02:09:17.790
[LAUGHTER] But it brought

02:09:17.790 --> 02:09:19.530
the subject up in a context where

02:09:19.530 --> 02:09:21.615
it would never been presented.

02:09:21.615 --> 02:09:23.790
Homosexuality and talking to

02:09:23.790 --> 02:09:26.550
high school students about it, unheard of.

02:09:26.550 --> 02:09:27.855
We didn't have to do a thing.

02:09:27.855 --> 02:09:29.700
They did it themselves,

02:09:29.700 --> 02:09:32.400
because we were in the paper, we were on TV.

02:09:32.400 --> 02:09:35.700
When people became aware

02:09:35.700 --> 02:09:38.235
of the activity that was going to be going on that week,

02:09:38.235 --> 02:09:42.070
it spread to the high school and the local community.

02:09:44.690 --> 02:09:53.125
Well, I see them now as being much more consequential.

02:09:53.125 --> 02:09:56.570
Then I thought they were at the time.

02:09:56.570 --> 02:09:59.540
I could see some immediate

02:09:59.540 --> 02:10:01.250
consequences at the time with people

02:10:01.250 --> 02:10:02.270
actually coming up to me and

02:10:02.270 --> 02:10:05.000
verbalizing how their minds were changed,

02:10:05.000 --> 02:10:06.440
or their hearts were changed,

02:10:06.440 --> 02:10:10.460
but it sneaks up on you.

02:10:10.460 --> 02:10:14.450
Before I knew it, the whole society had changed.

02:10:14.450 --> 02:10:17.060
I realized it was those little things

02:10:17.060 --> 02:10:19.235
that people did that really add up,

02:10:19.235 --> 02:10:22.430
and you don't have to be Martin Luther King.

02:10:22.430 --> 02:10:24.890
[LAUGHTER] You can be

02:10:24.890 --> 02:10:29.135
Rosa Parks and just not get up or do

02:10:29.135 --> 02:10:32.630
one little act of defiance

02:10:32.630 --> 02:10:37.590
or compassion for people's ignorance.

02:10:38.680 --> 02:10:40.970
You don't have to change the world,

02:10:40.970 --> 02:10:45.570
you just have to push it in that direction a little bit.

02:10:47.650 --> 02:10:50.870
I know we're in violation of time.

02:10:50.870 --> 02:10:54.575
This is a year later.

02:10:54.575 --> 02:10:57.680
Then we're going to have a little bit at closing,

02:10:57.680 --> 02:11:00.230
couple of minutes of Nancy Kelly.

02:11:00.230 --> 02:11:03.230
This is April 29th,

02:11:03.230 --> 02:11:07.400
1980, The Collegiate Times.

02:11:07.400 --> 02:11:09.920
The Gay Student Alliance was denied

02:11:09.920 --> 02:11:12.230
permission Thursday to sponsor Denim Day

02:11:12.230 --> 02:11:14.720
as part of its Gay Awareness Week to be held on

02:11:14.720 --> 02:11:16.040
May 5th through the 9th by

02:11:16.040 --> 02:11:18.080
the Commission on Student Affairs.

02:11:18.080 --> 02:11:20.180
This action came after James Dean,

02:11:20.180 --> 02:11:21.440
chairman of the commission and

02:11:21.440 --> 02:11:23.720
Vice President for Student Affairs told

02:11:23.720 --> 02:11:25.130
the commission that he would fight

02:11:25.130 --> 02:11:27.905
the alliances effort to sponsor the Denim Day.

02:11:27.905 --> 02:11:29.840
When Denim Day was held last year,

02:11:29.840 --> 02:11:31.520
students who supported gay rights were

02:11:31.520 --> 02:11:33.725
encouraged to wear denim.

02:11:33.725 --> 02:11:35.690
As a result, many tech students wore

02:11:35.690 --> 02:11:38.075
corduroys instead of traditional jeans.

02:11:38.075 --> 02:11:41.090
I received 25 thousand pieces of mail opposing

02:11:41.090 --> 02:11:43.010
Denim Day last year and it took me

02:11:43.010 --> 02:11:45.140
five or six weeks to answer all of it.

02:11:45.140 --> 02:11:47.525
He said, "I will not go through that again,

02:11:47.525 --> 02:11:49.730
even if it costs me my job.

02:11:49.730 --> 02:11:52.715
Dean does not have a vote on the commission."

02:11:52.715 --> 02:11:55.070
Some members of the commission said they felt that

02:11:55.070 --> 02:11:56.840
Denim Day inconvenience to

02:11:56.840 --> 02:12:00.935
many students and restricted their right to wear jeans.

02:12:00.935 --> 02:12:04.970
I wonder if any organization has the right to

02:12:04.970 --> 02:12:08.900
restrict the normal attire of so many people, said D.K.

02:12:08.900 --> 02:12:11.135
Brockett, Class of '81 President.

02:12:11.135 --> 02:12:14.210
GSA Representative Scott Beetle said that

02:12:14.210 --> 02:12:17.255
the organization's purpose was not to antagonize people,

02:12:17.255 --> 02:12:18.410
but to make them aware of

02:12:18.410 --> 02:12:20.555
the problems gay people encounter.

02:12:20.555 --> 02:12:23.390
Doug Waters, editor of The Collegiate Times said,

02:12:23.390 --> 02:12:26.075
"Whether or not your purpose was to antagonize,

02:12:26.075 --> 02:12:27.950
you did antagonize and generated

02:12:27.950 --> 02:12:29.540
the largest volume of mail written

02:12:29.540 --> 02:12:32.370
to the CT on any issue.".

02:12:33.010 --> 02:12:36.755
The alliance will sponsor instead a Gay Prayer Day

02:12:36.755 --> 02:12:38.240
in which gays are encouraged to

02:12:38.240 --> 02:12:40.129
say a prayer for their oppressors.

02:12:40.129 --> 02:12:44.045
The alliance also will sponsor a radio show on WUVT,

02:12:44.045 --> 02:12:45.500
which will discuss the problems of

02:12:45.500 --> 02:12:47.825
lesbians and Not Your Typical Blanket Night,

02:12:47.825 --> 02:12:50.525
which will be a series of educational films on gays,

02:12:50.525 --> 02:12:53.075
a panel discussion, and Tell a Friend Day,

02:12:53.075 --> 02:12:54.590
when gay people are encouraged to tell

02:12:54.590 --> 02:12:56.330
a friend about their lifestyle.

02:12:56.330 --> 02:12:58.580
Not Your Typical Blanket Night was originally

02:12:58.580 --> 02:13:00.845
to be called Not Your Average Blanket Night,

02:13:00.845 --> 02:13:02.780
but was changed after a protest by

02:13:02.780 --> 02:13:04.280
Virginia Tech Union's President

02:13:04.280 --> 02:13:05.990
Eddie Stowe who thought the title

02:13:05.990 --> 02:13:07.070
was too similar to the

02:13:07.070 --> 02:13:09.920
VTU's Not Your Average Lecture Series.

02:13:09.920 --> 02:13:11.675
In other commission action,

02:13:11.675 --> 02:13:14.120
Sigma Chi Fraternity requested permission to

02:13:14.120 --> 02:13:17.195
advertise foreign sponsor Derby Day on May 17th.

02:13:17.195 --> 02:13:18.950
The commission granted permission with

02:13:18.950 --> 02:13:20.810
the stipulation that the fraternity charge

02:13:20.810 --> 02:13:23.180
at least 25 cents for each beer served

02:13:23.180 --> 02:13:24.680
in order to control the amount of

02:13:24.680 --> 02:13:26.585
alcohol consumed at the event.

02:13:26.585 --> 02:13:28.490
The commission also requested

02:13:28.490 --> 02:13:29.960
more information on the security

02:13:29.960 --> 02:13:31.220
arrangements that the fraternity

02:13:31.220 --> 02:13:33.290
would have to set up for the event which has

02:13:33.290 --> 02:13:34.370
helped to raise money for

02:13:34.370 --> 02:13:36.810
the fraternity's philanthropies.

02:13:38.020 --> 02:13:40.940
The reason I came back was,

02:13:40.940 --> 02:13:42.785
there were several things, but one,

02:13:42.785 --> 02:13:47.840
I work with college students

02:13:47.840 --> 02:13:50.225
or graduate students primarily.

02:13:50.225 --> 02:13:53.345
Identity is very important.

02:13:53.345 --> 02:13:58.490
I started sharing some of my story with a few of them,

02:13:58.490 --> 02:14:02.420
and they were like, "Really?"

02:14:02.420 --> 02:14:05.240
[LAUGHTER] That was like, yeah,

02:14:05.240 --> 02:14:07.130
it wasn't always okay to be gay,

02:14:07.130 --> 02:14:11.495
now it's a little trendy but it really wasn't.

02:14:11.495 --> 02:14:14.660
I told them my story a little bit and that inspired me.

02:14:14.660 --> 02:14:17.930
But honestly, the biggest inspiration that I have is

02:14:17.930 --> 02:14:20.975
our current political climate where I see so many

02:14:20.975 --> 02:14:24.380
of our laws and rights are being challenged,

02:14:24.380 --> 02:14:29.270
are being rolled back or just chipped away a little bit.

02:14:29.270 --> 02:14:32.615
Those are things that have been

02:14:32.615 --> 02:14:34.490
long incoming way before

02:14:34.490 --> 02:14:38.255
me and have been very hard fought.

02:14:38.255 --> 02:14:43.160
I think it's so important that current students get

02:14:43.160 --> 02:14:47.090
that these people don't

02:14:47.090 --> 02:14:48.980
give you rights because they should,

02:14:48.980 --> 02:14:51.035
sometimes you have to stand up.

02:14:51.035 --> 02:14:52.790
It's unpopular.

02:14:52.790 --> 02:14:55.640
There's all sorts of reasons to

02:14:55.640 --> 02:14:59.345
not stand up for yourself,

02:14:59.345 --> 02:15:03.270
but we're talking basic human rights.

02:15:03.340 --> 02:15:08.780
My hope is to inspire

02:15:08.780 --> 02:15:12.230
current students to understand that

02:15:12.230 --> 02:15:16.770
these things happen very incrementally.

02:15:16.780 --> 02:15:19.550
When they start rolling back,

02:15:19.550 --> 02:15:21.320
they roll back incrementally.

02:15:21.320 --> 02:15:23.510
There's an ebb and flow sometimes.

02:15:23.510 --> 02:15:26.420
You can't stop living your life because

02:15:26.420 --> 02:15:31.460
the laws aren't to your liking.

02:15:31.460 --> 02:15:34.220
For us, is perfectly clear.

02:15:34.220 --> 02:15:35.780
We just did what we did and we

02:15:35.780 --> 02:15:38.210
navigate laws and we do things,

02:15:38.210 --> 02:15:40.955
but I think it is so important that

02:15:40.955 --> 02:15:44.030
people understand that you must pay things forward.

02:15:44.030 --> 02:15:45.635
You do things for yourself,

02:15:45.635 --> 02:15:49.385
but you must do them for the next generation.

02:15:49.385 --> 02:15:56.480
That is the reason that I felt it important.

02:15:56.480 --> 02:15:59.975
For me, I'm 60 years old.

02:15:59.975 --> 02:16:02.480
Whether or not I trans in

02:16:02.480 --> 02:16:05.045
the military doesn't matter to me personally.

02:16:05.045 --> 02:16:08.855
It matters to me emotionally but it's not my job.

02:16:08.855 --> 02:16:11.300
But I do think it is so

02:16:11.300 --> 02:16:14.610
important for all of us to stand up for each other.

02:16:17.860 --> 02:16:20.150
We still don't have a lot

02:16:20.150 --> 02:16:21.665
of [LAUGHTER] basic human rights.

02:16:21.665 --> 02:16:24.530
It's still not done, and it's never done.

02:16:24.530 --> 02:16:28.070
It's always about being more inclusive,

02:16:28.070 --> 02:16:29.990
talking about people of color,

02:16:29.990 --> 02:16:31.430
talking about trans,

02:16:31.430 --> 02:16:34.085
talking about different gender identities.

02:16:34.085 --> 02:16:38.555
Those are our concepts of that in the 1970s,

02:16:38.555 --> 02:16:42.545
wasn't even part of a conversation.

02:16:42.545 --> 02:16:45.230
I understand it intuitively,

02:16:45.230 --> 02:16:51.260
but I think that when we

02:16:51.260 --> 02:16:53.795
can deal with the underpinnings of

02:16:53.795 --> 02:16:56.795
racism and homophobia and sexism,

02:16:56.795 --> 02:17:00.859
those are the things that keep us restrained.

02:17:00.859 --> 02:17:06.350
I think I'm just talking about obviously being lesbian,

02:17:06.350 --> 02:17:08.480
but there's many more things to it,

02:17:08.480 --> 02:17:11.960
and when some of us are repressed,

02:17:11.960 --> 02:17:13.970
all of us are repressed.

02:17:13.970 --> 02:17:17.090
Maybe that's activism, but that's just my life.

02:17:17.090 --> 02:17:19.490
That's just how I feel. I am

02:17:19.490 --> 02:17:21.710
certainly much more political.

02:17:21.710 --> 02:17:25.475
I have made way many protest posters

02:17:25.475 --> 02:17:31.115
since 2016 than I ever did as a younger.

02:17:31.115 --> 02:17:41.150
But things have rolled back and that's okay.

02:17:41.150 --> 02:17:43.040
It's not okay, but we just have

02:17:43.040 --> 02:17:46.350
to not give up. It's very important.

02:17:46.390 --> 02:17:50.645
Then despite things like 2016,

02:17:50.645 --> 02:17:55.010
do you remain or are you hopeful?

02:17:55.010 --> 02:17:57.440
Is there progressive arc that you [OVERLAPPING]

02:17:57.440 --> 02:18:03.050
Yes. There it is because we have basic rights,

02:18:03.050 --> 02:18:05.045
but we also have allies.

02:18:05.045 --> 02:18:12.215
That is the single biggest difference in many ways,

02:18:12.215 --> 02:18:14.030
because people get it.

02:18:14.030 --> 02:18:15.290
It's just human rights.

02:18:15.290 --> 02:18:19.310
It's why can't you love who you want to love?

02:18:19.310 --> 02:18:21.275
Why can't you be who you want to be?

02:18:21.275 --> 02:18:23.375
That's a basic human right,

02:18:23.375 --> 02:18:27.240
and now it's just more understood.

02:18:27.600 --> 02:18:30.025
That won't roll back.

02:18:30.025 --> 02:18:32.275
There may be laws that will roll back,

02:18:32.275 --> 02:18:34.165
but that basic human understanding,

02:18:34.165 --> 02:18:35.560
I don't believe will roll back.

02:18:35.560 --> 02:19:00.080
[APPLAUSE]

02:19:00.080 --> 02:19:02.630
Many of the extraordinary people that you

02:19:02.630 --> 02:19:05.645
just saw on the screen are in this room with us,

02:19:05.645 --> 02:19:07.685
and I just want to say thank you to

02:19:07.685 --> 02:19:11.225
all of you for what you contributed to that.

02:19:11.225 --> 02:19:14.540
It is frigidly cold in here.

02:19:14.540 --> 02:19:18.560
I violated the time constraints radically.

02:19:18.560 --> 02:19:22.610
Whatever happens next is up to us collectively.

02:19:22.610 --> 02:19:26.495
It might be that we don't stay in this refrigerator,

02:19:26.495 --> 02:19:28.760
but I imagine that there are

02:19:28.760 --> 02:19:31.355
conversations that you-all would like to have,

02:19:31.355 --> 02:19:34.700
so maybe going out

02:19:34.700 --> 02:19:37.460
into the light and somewhat warmer spot.

02:19:37.460 --> 02:19:39.785
But I just have to say,

02:19:39.785 --> 02:19:43.580
I am so deeply proud to be part

02:19:43.580 --> 02:19:47.510
of this community that you all helped to build here,

02:19:47.510 --> 02:20:03.000
so thank you. [APPLAUSE]