Let's start over and just tell me your name,
do that whole bit. Okay, Michael Terry.
Born around Virginia from 17 1949. Michael, thanks
for being here. And I'd love for you just
to tell me your story. Tell me a little
bit about your life and about your time at ST
Lukes and subsequent experience with the Episcopal Church. And
when, uh, we first remember first Roanoke Virginia
in 1955. And my parents for all right,
everyone wants to make sure that we had a good
religious and sound uh, religious background and then handed
baptized, uh, basically going to his church,
the baptist church. Uh, dad was much is
, my mother was left this and so who love
us? My parents love us, decides which will
be baptist. Memphis possibly never came into the picture
. I met jean between Hamilton Jordan and mr Jordan
lived a block down the street from us and he
was involved in the Episcopal Church. Well, the
political church was right behind the house. I mean
, living about 20 steps behind the house and the
legal way I got involved was that he started a
cub scout troop. And the construct truth without,
I was actually about a year to young. Give
me a cup scott. True. But he knew
that all my, my friends and teammates, we're
uh, you know, we're doing sort of been
myself. So you know, if, if they
know your coach cause and I get them getting in
, it's gonna be some troubling in neighborhood. So
the lesson if I came and talked to my parents
and he didn't know them and he said that he
wanted to be getting actively involved in the sky trip
, but he also wanted to be involved in the
Episcopal Church. Well, after some dissertation, my
mother father have relented and said, okay. And
now he's going to church. Uh, you know
, I'm gonna hear his doctors methodist where the nose
is going to church. So we kind of buy
, I kept processing nice and we looked at and
we enjoyed it because he had a lot of interesting
things for us to do. And uh, in
the sculpture, it was kind of the, the
intro to it and introduced us to the church and
just did introduces to the different parts and stations of
the church. And he said, I mean,
this is a church and this is what people are
doing a lot of people. But he was a
good educational met because it kind of accounts his way
of getting us in the church and doing things because
we're at 789 years old. Just, you know
, you know, this is not bunkers and nothing
to do some stuff, you know, So he
said that he forgot that. He told us when
they're shooting the new something good, bad or indifferent
Children don't do something. So, and he got
us involved in these countries and they had some of
the best wasn't the best time because he had again
, mother and daddy Logan and this woman was a
wife of my dentist. I finally get us,
so get you just people in the sky trip can
. Then one sunday we had a little uh shorts
on and little cups, got uniforms, introduce us
to the church. Family were out there was really
impressed because there were a problem with people in,
you know, in african american community. There were
similar doctors, um, in attorney, several school
teachers, vice principals and people, you know who
this were outstanding in community. And I've been able
to members of the church and the thing that impressed
me encounter, it's a problem to, We had
a one priest and a black place and you're before
that one that I don't think that would happen in
roanoke Virginia. Do you remember their names? Woodrow
gator was the, was the news in the south
as a major leader, the guy to be a
priest. I can't remember the other priest name Uh
, because this was in 1960. So, and
then uh, I think the following sunday bishop morning
came to the church and was telling people in the
neighborhood about the church. Well, he might have
only included the young man's for cub scouts. We
include the girls too and the older sister who was
, who was the kind of, you know,
he wanted to go to church. So they buy
us going and get involved with some girls in neighborhood
, want to get involved and said, well we
had a very interesting, but he made sunday school
so much fun and you kind of trick this by
making the fun but they're learning at the same time
. So we had about I guess we're about 30
Children in the neighborhood, that one In that there
were no winter right in the 15 Guatemalan different steps
and lessons to get get back past and it was
sprinkled with Saddam I can't talk to your parents about
it. And then said well as long as they
full of baptized, you've been baptized already, so
they spring here. That's okay. But we had
we went to the confirmation uh hearing confirmation lessons and
everything but he's the only thing that he told us
showing us the books of the bible. And you
said you know in the bible it broken down and
some people did, some people did as well as
old testament, new testament. So he took us
to each book of the bible and that and we
had lessons every week on valuable have been interesting because
if you learn, if you ask the most questions
and that week before some school, well you got
a price. And sometimes the prize was a box
of um Eminem's, a whole box of them.
Holbox attention rose or bags and bags of candy.
So uh being chilling and that's probably the peak their
interest. The thing about it, he showed me
. So I want, I want you to be
um something we ought to be acolytes, I'm saying
, who's acolyte? He said, well, you
remember the actual ideas before he was accepted responsibility?
He showed us and gave us, in fact,
he said, this is what the act like.
Does these are the beauties of the acolyte? I
said, okay, so it was kind of cool
because you know the thing that most churches didn't do
was drink a little wine and the thing that kind
of was kind of finchley and kinda kinda get surprising
to that everybody drinks on the same challenge. This
was 1960 again. And I mean Dr Martin Luther
King had come to Ronald mm when I first saw
the culmination, they were mostly african americans, but
they were white families too. And that looks so
and I was like wow and then Hamas college,
we know how university had a group of women that
would come there to to work with us and teach
sunday school and then then they actually were members and
they came every sunday without fail. And that was
interesting because you know, most of you think about
being because that was the time they had, which
called white and colored water fountains now and we had
and then the SRS crushed downtown. We had a
lunch counter where african americans couldn't sit, You can
order your food to go and pay for it with
a$1 American, but you couldn't sit there and
have much. That was wrong in 19, in
the 1960s. Also the city bus system and the
SAN, which is a city ordinance on the bus
and the bus is right to the front color to
rear. Well I was, I must have been
six years old and I could read. So my
mom and dad always, let's just be adventuresome,
especially me. So I'm going to ride the bus
. My my parents were unfortunately vehicles but I want
to ride the bus and say I want to go
downtown something mom said, well okay, when I
do, if you want to ride the bus I'll
let you write to us. Well I've been dealing
with my dad was going to meet me downtown.
So I got on the bus and we know you
had a token, you got little tokens and look
horns, You put money in there, got token
. I guess the job, we wouldn't have to
get robbed, robbed the bus, you can get
these tokens. So put the token in the,
in this law and I was just banned the big
enough to come on the back seat of a car
number on the seat and back behind the driver.
And I was so small that my feet busting.
But when he, when I was speaking with you
and strung out, so we made a confirmation,
they looked at me, he said snow right here
. And she kind of smiled at me where the
bus driver was looking in the mirror. I said
something something you can't sit right there. I said
so you can see right there. That's why then
I put enough tokens in here. He said no
there's a city ordinance that said city order. And
he pointed to it. I read it. I
said wait to the front colour away at that's a
career. So and then they said leave him a
mountain. But leaving me mr baby to leaving the
money, they will sit out there. And that
job said man, he said let him sit right
there well and the rest driving to go. I
didn't know at that point that he could have been
fired because it was sitting on this when I go
downtown and letting out the bus, she got right
to the seat because I was so small. I
said thank you man, you said you work on
went down in my bed, let me. And
he said, how is Bush Ryan? I said
it was good. So not my first adventure along
city bus system. But you know it was it
was painful and exceed in there and there has because
we can in certain places we could go spend money
but your money was not welcome. Yeah, they
went to money but your mother, you're not welcome
. So we got a runner wound stone was one
place we could, we could go there and you
know where you stand and get a hot dog.
But most of the hot dogs were to go.
Sometimes that was bigger and bigger as a big size
room and the guy can never loved what I understand
And as the time that was awesome. But in
the in the 60's and I promise market and people
bring all kinds of problems and stuff into the market
and their fortunes. Fish market, a lot of
different things. But you know what I liked about
it was that week ago downtown and for the most
part the places we were welcome. But all the
parts we deeply couldn't go because they had separate combinations
, separate but not equal because the schools were concept
within an equal as well. So that was that
was a big challenge. But you know, I
just meant that bombing because I knew that, you
know, somehow that all this would be limited Church
, those are respite. Because when the church must
, we got black people, white people and people
were came up. Yeah, even David, uh
, to everyone that wow. And I think people
at church and I didn't tell him. I said
, well, my church, So I went to
church going to is going to say, oh,
that's where the guy gives you because you gave yourself
I say yeah, I said but you got to
know the bible, he said okay, so whether
incentive but we take people church with us and they
were just kind of amazing and surprising. You can
white people in the church do Yeah. Yeah.
Do you remember some of the names of the people
who were at the church? And the second question
is was it bishop marmee and doing the lessons?
The bible lessons and giving you the candy or was
it it was Mr Jordan was one being a godfather
to the church. Uh Milton. Jordan was my
godfather, you know what I mean in Jordan?
And he was the one who was doing the Bible
Lesson. Huh? And he was the lay reader
who, you know, and he was also a
senior warden at the church and um at the range
there are mr mr Ragsdale, Wonder if our family
is in there. Um It was fair somebody Logan
back to Logan was a dentist Because we all know
the name of the game to come. Stick horse
James Washington. He was about six ft 18 when
talking to people I have ever seen. They come
to stick horse because he was a real tall man
had Wilbur and Matilda Lightfoot, They were members of
the church um uh goody and Grubby Coleman and George
Coleman, her husband, he was the vice principal
of a high school and mr Evan phillips, his
wife and he was a personal in high school.
They're both were from New Orleans and creo. So
they brought up in the stocks catholic church in the
parishes of Louisiana. So they were, they accepted
them Episcopal Church because people called Episcopalians. So you
got a pistol, can give you a rich catholic
. Uh I never thought about it, but as
the years went by, mama pissed things, I
mean you know I can promise, you know I
was a good man but I have a fair amount
of money so but this morning and then with man
in his, the only way he can just like
we were out there like his own Children or grandchildren
and never made any infant. Mhm. Or we
don't need the distinction between asking anybody else because so
bad, you know that God loves all Children and
they said you all doing a wonderful thing here,
you wouldn't be by by their blue kinda and that's
this of the church for the neighborhood because almost all
of the Children in the church where this and the
neighborhood and the neighborhood was basically a mixed neighborhood.
Me an italian, we had posters, we had
seven of your group african american caucasian and I was
I wouldn't have taken anything for the neighborhood because we
had to bring the best hard parts of people.
So we had all kinds of people and all kinds
of ethnic groups and so heretofore had been stopped um
mm uh in the in the poorest church. I
mean the Great Church, we got that church in
the uh mhm peaceful church and the catholic church and
then you want to be something that came there because
they wanted a small small congregation sometimes they felt like
they got lost in the big congregations because the same
. Andrews had a big congregation and people feel like
they would get lost in the catholic church. Yes
and people didn't really, you know they feel like
the police didn't know them and they there wasn't that
closer and and I was at the church would always
have coffee and we have, they have hot chocolate
and marshmallows. They've done this for the kids.
So they may make sure that the kids were always
felt welcome and always felt that they wanted to come
back the ball. I was talking and tell us
about different things in church. They tell us and
live fish in their stories and do that. And
I'm being, there was no, don't call me
a businessman. The people never heard I love cutting
their grass, showing you smell like Kimberly large and
to keep the during the sunday months and then went
two months as well. So I can't handle this
as much on the side president. But before I
wouldn't know these people and they knew us because their
Children came up with us to the church and in
the church. So that was really interesting. And
and so when you have a big contest every Sundays
who's gonna know the most and don't say you know
it's ok when you're done on saturday nights, we
always get our bob's on the stubborn books on and
the studies. Okay. At this point husbands eight
so An assistant about 10 years old, 1960 60
62. Let's see. You were born in 49
12. Oh yeah, I'm ok. Yeah,
because bishop came in 57 58 57, 58 59
, maybe that year about Muslims 57-57-58. Because because
I was uh the movie made longer than 50 I
think 55 Fellow with six months when pressed by the
house run of Virginia. And tell me about the
neighborhood. Tell me about what where the neighborhood was
and where the church was. The name of the
Romney boulevard, which is uh the 10th street stuff
was. And the neighborhood was every day. I
don't answer older setting neighborhood because the new there there
are possible about six or seven african american families.
Devils were again uh on the 10th to mark your
ugly, that were Greek. They were polish,
they were telling the families and on up the street
there were people from Syria Lebanon because the same Mackley
and he was Lebanese. And now we always hear
these different numbers in their blood pours talking and singing
and I made his name is is not the problem
. That's a model, is mr marketing somebody again
and then you get to somebody on the store as
well. Uh Sam Macklin and you're in the store
called Rugby grocery. So he uh and anxious to
go to the store from my parents. And you
know sometimes I have a note and because because the
navy grocery store was anything because We had one chroma
store was 11 street and uh love street without the
infamous, but in the name of grocers were they
, there was a staple of the communities. So
I'm going there and salmon always talked to me.
He smoked a cigar can kind of have shooting cigar
and he said, you got to have some good
and you know, they were sliced baloney and slice
your meat and you know, and do it the
first several things just like you would go and have
a big store. But he always had the rico
soldiers and you know, very good meats and the
fresh fruits and vegetables. So we could do that
until we sometimes went to the grocery store to make
your major grocery. So we asked them when they
, and I found out to look for him in
the store. Yeah. I asked him, I
said all right. He was just kind of sweeping
in and taking care of the store and uh make
sure things kind of neat and tiny sleeping outside.
So I think I have no outside to ask my
parents. That's my man. He said what?
And I said like I talked to anybody. So
one day I met you can bring them even the
band. Uh that's me. And then when said
I'm here to talk, he said they came in
the house and my dad was really uh he was
kinda procured by people won't come to your house being
on the man. He said and talk to have
a conversation. He said, I think your son
is most of the young man is nice. Clean
credit. Yes ma'am. No ma'am. Yes sir
, No sir. And he said no, that's
that's always good to him when I got him a
job and I said, let's be opinion job is
he coming? Every Sandy? It's A Good 10
9 A Week. That's what the man said.
Also, we'll move up the hand. Yes.
And that's 100 days and we see this a couple
days a week, couple two days we can see
okay, I guess. Okay. That's funny because
you want to get a special room because the big
one was too big for me. So and I
go there and he hadn't seen them. They kind
of bubble. But Barbara was treating came training to
build each other and to tickle so he ran the
rest of him and his brother Sam. So I
said okay then beat them. But then there's still
across the street from him. Call johnson store.
Yeah. Johnson is an older man. And his
wife was his wife was we were your fragile.
Johnson was about six ft 2. And yeah,
and I was kind of like that Mr johnson,
you got you got attention nick. But they still
call him johnson's name. Mr Johnson. I say
his name is Johnson. That's awfully$15 a week
. So I think uh I can look for sam
you know in those days and I can work for
johnson. I love your face. But that's it
. So I didn't tell my dad that. So
I wouldn't work the same magic. I want to
feel like, you know, fathers and Saturdays because
they went open on Sundays because the blue laws in
Virginia. So I mean there's a fine, he
said. And skin sweeping everything. And he always
wanted to just uh put johnson out of business because
he was your competition right across the street. He
would look funny for his competition. That's an older
store. But it's nice frequent store. So Powerful
saying for about three days where I can sneak over
johnston and I work inside. Yeah. I said
what what what what what kind of what I'm gonna
do for him, johnson? He said well and
we have you here, you can be my store
security. That's the store security there. So keep
your kids from putting stuff in the parking lot at
that store. So we're about to embark around one
day. And so I said to myself, I
just I'm tired. So he he was my I
came to the next saturday. It's like the bubbly
, this big chill is like a big heart here
. Big deal with the big arms and things and
just say you're sorry thing you got make sure you're
gonna be like you can go to sleep and leave
him alone. So you have them let them let
them have a person to sit. But you know
, and in Hebrew and the papers are every saturday
. How would you pay my announce? But I
didn't have them. I get paid from seven.
Actually get paid for Mr Johnson. So what was
your nickname? Oh you gotta beat businessman. A
businessman, he said. So when I was growing
on Sandy, we have the movies sand and we
have one theater we could go to, it's called
the Virginia Theatre. Was the one who called hinder
street was his first street Warmack. You know how
they have a bridge. The martin Luther king can
get your statue there for students, colleagues become humorously
and back in the day in games, rural areas
. Some what I would do is that you have
about my colleagues from my little job. So we
get my knowledge for us for make up a bed
and watching this and clean up. Come along and
get the money from Mr necklace, getting money for
Mr johnson. I'm sad. And I was negotiated
deal with my dad. That's dad 10. Let's
make a deal with. He's so I think I'm
gonna short in this deal, I'm gonna pay you
and said, you know, I want to go
to the movies and have like this about five buddies
in the neighborhood. I said there always have been
in Scout troops and they're saying they're telling you the
jukebox and stuffy, it's stinky. That's it.
There has been done. You want to go to
the movies? He said, mm my brothers,
one if you met me in in your neighborhood with
them with the car and members always kept a move
vehicle to, He said, so what I'm gonna
do something to give you$3.00 I guess. So
$3 mm Well to go to a million was only
15 cents. So, but you see you're paying
for all your brothers. That's it. He was
always nice to play for anybody to go to the
means. I said, but we got to be
there at 12:00 PMclock because that that she had been
working for an essay. You know, I'm not
walking in there. He said I'm not working for
building that working day. I said, yeah,
I call them, tell them I'm sick today.
So you say today, but then you can go
to the movies today. That's what I said.
That's all we do, is it? That's not
the way you do with you guys. You got
to tell them what you gonna do because next thing
somebody having a job. So he let me go
to the store and tell him that. I want
to really say that I was about to movies.
So his napkins was gonna, he wouldn't, what
happened with both. Okay. But you just make
a one week and johnson was fine with it.
He said, when you go to the movies,
I think you don't got to build. He said
, you mean you actually many, I know we
got many good movies. Why be extra 5?
Cause for one of your brothers, wow. So
I have about$35. So Maria. Okay.
Panel on the car and one seat belt one across
about three of us. And what goes on in
the industry? So what you gonna do? So
there's a place on the interesting coach, charlie hot
dog hot dogs were five cents. We got hot
dogs and we got some your pop one about that
long. For a nickel. We ate, ate
, ate, ate we can eat anymore. Well
given the moon was fascinating. So everything was 10
cents a lot of the movie Go two million and
cyber 12. And when I was over sometimes therefore
we see how becoming attractions and all the different things
. one movie we could go to because then a
David downtown called american theater. Well what time you
can see african americans considering the balcony but then they
sit there and let him die in. The battle
was closed. So they'll sign uh huh in medicine
, why? It's in the main theater colour.
And exactly what year was this? This was 15
, about 15, about 60. So in number
61. But it is always, it's heartening to
see that. So we decided we have decided without
knowing without really knowing that we must spend my money
because when I met somebody felt welcome the law in
the theater at the Virginia Theatre, the only black
uh on Saturdays from 12 to about four, the
cartoons and uh long ranging all the good stuff that
we want to seem. So you got to lose
on saturday and that's that that's how they function in
the in the 2nd and 3rd in the movie.
But you don't even must go to me was a
absolute treat for even for adults because the money was
hard to come by there. So making money.
I was making a week. I was making as
much money as the most adults were then that my
dad said you know I got a lot of money
for a guy like you. I don't even let
me take them, but so much to the movies
with me and I put it and I have to
put it in the bank. You take him downtown
. The first national exchange back when I first got
my first bank account and they want to do and
they gave us little toy banks but the combination on
it I thought that was the coolest thing and said
that they make you want a safe. So it
was down to us and we see people on the
buses and they were born love probably what people saw
in Alabama from the salmon lines. And then we
it depends like that doing the side but we didn't
ever think about the sound because we didn't have any
of those civilians the marches to protest. Yeah it
is kind of silent protest because people just spend their
money in other places. We would spend our money
the person we want to welcome and people in downtown
to go go shop at the A. M.
P. Or the liquor mac. Then the downtown
city market. Um you see hundreds of people down
. And the only thing, especially at the M
. P. Uh and I almost I was wondering
is different, what's the mp? That's what's the
M. P. And so my dad said,
looking at my mom, dad said, you know
, word look it up. If you do nothing
, look what I'm saying. So I found the
Mp and other people, you know, even to
this day it's the great atlantic and pacific tea company
. They won was subsidiary thing. It was the
Mp was a food store and they and they were
always located in the multi communities and they don't care
where the diamonds came from. All they were interested
in green. So the downtown was not really a
minority community but a lot of not just shot there
and feel comfortable there. They didn't try along like
you're going to steal something. He went down there
and you shop and then for the ninth street called
the fourth and fish market. You got you in
new york city because they had fish with the heads
running the house on. They cut the first like
you know they had a machine and I may have
found out was the first machine that are being um
Most people think that IBM you think computers, the
first machine that have been made that millions of dollars
on was a meat slicer and I don't understand international
business machine. That was the business machine. And
I hope you know he said Mikey, he said
my hand about how about tomorrow night and I think
you might like that. And they said the gaze
in and run, the blonde blonde came in.
Those bomb come in packs, you can go with
this one and they love mama and this slice it
slice it and my dad's let's say, I think
that's pretty Yeah. And we get a whole pack
of blankets and they put on a white bitches paper
. Sometimes they slice it and maybe we have to
abide by the role love bologna and cheese the same
way to switch. You are not switches but you
know, again I remind you got she's got home
Malcolm's 10 years. Does you know what those holes
came from? Not here has a noise here.
That's believe it the trying times for a while.
But that's not to play arrest not being there because
I also went after cheese. So back in democracy
. Mm hmm. Problems with but we go down
there and get the money chief hand fish Turkey.
That was the big, that was the big thing
because they go downtown. You felt welcome. He
had mobility Brooke and in the promised market, people
coming from north and south Carolina to sell the canucks
visit summertime, Kamloops, water moon pears, apples
. And then my man on that mountain. So
my dad knew apples, but we would never buy
apples because we want to not get our apples were
running. So he's got a good times, bad
times because they tend, because people feel most long
, long, you can't transcend it that the race
bearing and show them around and make sure desire because
sometimes we didn't go, I guess because we never
, we had called the names just because you know
, people come to our movie, but sometimes call
me, let's get any wrong thing to do because
these kids come out and on the bicycles who cost
any olympic, Oh man. We'll be doing like
once or twice you get once and got away with
it the next time they did that we saw him
coming. But I said we got part of this
rocks and stones, that dog sit down on everything
. But there's only those, one of the few
times that we've had mm nation around because again,
and I think it was totally anybody, Well,
as many caucasian as we had in the news because
some of those people are there also, they felt
like they were stuck curriculum. You can visit them
. The boomer. Some of the older people have
grandparents, probably great grandparents, but some women that
say 2,000,008, 19 years old, it's about four
years old is old. But remember for is maybe
reflected late 40s and 50s. Well I was talking
with, we play with the kids. I was
the newspaper of the newspaper boy for two years.
So uh, my birthday christmas, you know,
how does that give me extra money or give me
, give me a dress and stuff. So it
was a good times. This was a good time
. Bad time. Good time because the way that
we were treated in our own neighborhood, bad time
because we were treated outside our neighborhood and we were
being in the treasury. I grabbed his arm was
out, was out. But it is a place
we can always go and school. Uh, school
called loud in school. I'm glad monument. I'll
be thinking there was no bus and investors that design
. Well, uh huh. I'm worth more than
one. From one through six. Well nine school
was when it was used to be, people say
used to be uh, a hospital. It was
in the hospital. It was the hospital able to
call Bull Memorial Hospital for one hospital that we could
go to. And the school and we had several
uh, excuse, we could get the ones that
live in school on long navigation Harrison school give my
school gangs bro. And looking test that was written
in the black neighborhoods so we could go to and
I went to Loudon the beautiful school people, white
school blowing the claim was born and never been here
. Big, big thing for us was walking to
school because there was no buses where the only best
whatever city buses, the kids from the county.
You know what we're talking about. Kind of the
ugly ugly banana buses. We've come, all you
want is rugby banana buses. We hate those things
because they were real mom. I was just so
scared. Right? And then the black kids will
bust the black school that will go right past the
high school most close to them Well. But sometimes
three or 4 miles away could black school. The
thing that was bothering me was, and I was
conscious than that because you see, I'm thinking like
why did you go to your school? Because my
parents didn't because she said like and why don't mix
? That's what jimmy is my friend day and we
live with lenses today. But kids before you got
10 kids in the room, what's the parents?
Those kids were communists. They find a ball or
truck or something. Only when they fight them.
They want the same toy. But then look at
the color of skin. You're always in the same
way like King said, content of character. The
first thing you say, hi, you got kids
when I was in the belt man. What people
ask my kids how you got kids who are your
kids. All they wanna do is get the kids
off the program. You can, what it looks
like when you're kidding the board or whatever. So
kids playing uh you even have a very valuable lesson
because they didn't care about policy payments are the ones
who influenced him. Don't touch them, don't don't
go with them. Don't they told him what matter
? Is this it? No, it's not sick
. Why not? I wonder why you can't come
up with a dr answer. And other than that
he's a different, she's a different color and that
was saying that and that was for years that the
color would rub off and that I heard for a
lot of years I'm thinking like so me and you
know our restaurant was the church because we could go
to two scouting memories. Never had responsible one.
And then the colorado there there is no too late
than National Scout Boy Scouts Association. There's no too
late kind of convenient. You know our neighborhood was
rather behind us where we need if we want to
go to a jamboree what's up cookies, tens of
cookies, crispy cream doughnut was probably the premier uh
, sponsor and that's why I love chris green today
. I thought people you know history christmas green.
Well I was elementary school and cups comes with,
they get fundraisers. We said doesn't burn us with
me but 87 I would give it was real cheap
hot oil burners and people back home We have like
about 30 cents programs, high school in Virginia.
We went to Canada in Chicago and you are protected
because of crispy cream. Mm good. And yourself
christian came to us to the neighborhood. We're not
going there. Excuse me Miss bazooka. Uh how
can you do? How much we got? We
got that can finish it. How much are they
? A dollar. Okay give me two boxes.
That's where I went on the basket on the basket
And I said I'm doing this because you think number
seven. Okay. Like how much is it?
Yeah it was something because well then you know that
was our neighborhood and that's our community. People stayed
there till they die. Mm And then the houses
got so then african merchants came in because the houses
remains houses they were in this housing someone older houses
we'll take care of but now has a romantic your
iron man at this time. And they were they
were really really uh proud of that in the neighborhood
, proud of the hatches And we ate more italian
food and drink food and I had back Levar I
had all kinds of different food with every ethnic group
in there except chinese. Because you know in the
movies when they're the mother start cooking it was like
uh the numbers for the Yankees there. Huh.
And that mr malhotra was greek and she noticed the
baklava. Well yeah just kind of, what is
that? I said I said that I just got
some baklava said no it's back up and we come
home and say almost joseph and James said something joe
joe was addressed it so and gathered next to him
looking pudgy. He was polish and we don't think
about the polish sausage we love because it's uncle to
come in there and build this polish sausage and the
early no branch has been like that one because that
was and that was fun because more of the gas
. Okay come on man. Did you come back
to it? People the church, But when they
came there there's all white, black greek, italian
a second. Mhm Yeah, because that word we
said, we drink out of the chalice. This
challenge, this is a simple challenge. Her mother
drinks are the same, same covers. Mm Okay
, let me say, is that not to modernize
? I'm never going to get the service. And
I said, you know, silver actually cleanses jams
that up yourself and say no. I said yes
. Yeah. And they take them out. That's
it. I don't think it's real wine is not
great juices, real wine. They were like,
okay. And I even I got older, I
was wrong and I arrived at my church. Well
that's um that's what we talk about it. You
know, they have received the bread and wine.
It's real wine. Mhm. He's on a van
Gogh churches us, it what do you mean?
He said, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I
think that that I said, you know what,
maybe you dip it, maybe it's different, that's
because and I thought my encounter, I know I
felt going to bother us because we're coming at college
, no more than one drink away from being back
on it, you know, that's the only way
. And ultimately, I'm saying, wow, I
thought aware, but I appreciate it and why,
and you know that our neighborhood was this thing epitome
of what neighborhood should be and how they should function
. The neighborhood can get it as a neighborhood.
The parents of the time, you said the church
was in your backyard behind me, It was one
thing to be divided. The church for me was
one, it was an alley, and I looked
at the input can pick up alcohol, right,
Kirsten Alley? And I was on the church grounds
. Was it in a church building in ST louis
was just uh, is now uh daycare. Yeah
. And they've got to be one of the first
one, The first one is the church and the
other one they built subsequently. So that was the
which is now the daycare. But all of that
was were playing and playing when we had a basketball
growing up here that I love the church. Put
that up or not. Basketball, basketball going in
my football place. We play football during the meeting
meeting meeting on Grayson Man because it from the street
was gross and avenue and the back was Yeah,
I mean when the baby was boulevard, because if
I would walk still out there and then he took
me three minutes to get the church, I could
get up to instantly about quarter eight and I will
be church. They're not so happy just as well
. Have been acting like, uh we got the
act like they oh man. And let's end up
being teenagers. And we got probably and drinking real
100 that said mom's okay. I'll let you stay
out. You got to go to church and we
did that. But that's, that's the only thing
to divide it. The church must have used to
camp out. They have tents. Mom said a
scotch would be careful and I had to uh,
so they can I got finally got tense. He
was, he was the most industrious man. He
was like my Gara. He came one stuff and
he'd get get anybody to do anything about. Got
some clubs, guys, we need to get some
attention this and he went down to a place that's
so intense and they gave us the 10 for the
weekend, right? We stayed intense. That's a
big thing camping out because I'm about 50 ft from
from my back door. But we had and some
this one guy wanted me to stay with his son
because he had this 10. I got a 10
. I hope that they could be here. He
tasted like it was some of the worst are staying
. Well he had a tent that he brought from
more and more to and having this basement out of
the temple was awful. Yes. You know like
, you know, it's gonna get once you tied
the knot with 10. Well, I think that
I can think of. So you guys came out
here and I knocked on the back door. My
parents came by. My dad mom came to this
is it. Hello camper. I can't stand the
10 mistakes just within here. I said that he
was a Pink Tech. I would say that's a
big 10 states all the time with this, you
know, check it. Can can there be So
I said Chucky Chucky Patterson Danny and we stand at
10. He's gonna I don't trust anyone. The
other times. That's ok. We'll do it.
But that's it. You're getting up, you're gonna
see. But your next one business. I think
I'm coming up. So he's got the last night
except Ryan all the last night. The bananas on
the bus. I had everything. He had scars
and I was a close call from right. I
went back over as I step in the tent with
other people. I said they check it was stepped
up and said he was he was crying because he
slipped into. But it was thinking so the next
morning. Mhm. We make a campfire right there
. She didn't supervise everything they can find. Who
do you have? Really? Rose? Yeah.
Well some works for him. We've been hot dogs
and I did mother was loving or make her some
small ones, but I've never had someone should get
these graham crackers rehearsal bar with the marshmallow when we
put on my own with that kind of remark O'Hagan's
and want to make money. Yeah, it was
the best thing I ever had. Or did you
see ginger snaps and apple cider? Every couch is
coming and we had some snacks. They were just
absolutely just, well we've never had before. So
she was, she was the wife of your dentist
. And were they african american? Yes, that
loan was Pump one of the best dentist in Ronald
And I would never say that because he could,
most things wouldn't put up 2000 abscess. He put
2000 websites and get a gig. What did your
father did? My father worked for Epilepsy and Power
Company. He stand off in the 50's in the
garage, he didn't want the mechanic in me.
But when he did he was in charge of the
vehicles and they watched the we didn't make sure they
would maintain but because of him. But all these
were the president of the company, the vice president
executive and put all the people on them. These
are the offices of the Appalachian rano. So who's
uh it wasn't in charge of first but then later
on he became in charge of the whole garage.
Then he became a fleet service manager. Uh This
article written about him point before he um mom before
he passed he was gonna be, was the first
african american that was was elevated to management john terry
and you have a some great education. He's determined
he's gonna get his G. E. D.
He was 65 when you complete the G. D
. And at that time he were about the high
schools that was made in the state of Virginia and
then you took college courses and associate the way The
whole time he is 9 to play the guitar guitar
lessons and told himself with them and then they go
down lessons on playing guitar keyboards. Um the G
. D. All the same year. I was
like God I believe it's easy studying, are you
playing like that? We'll be playing every studying playing
the same time but and mama's uh she was in
the living Ohio long time of the Youngstown University.
Mhm. And my mom is uh my pension unique
because they would let us, they never had a
bedtime for you know, so the bedtime now I
was to have been made to every, every summer
the family took one for vacation. We went to
the world's fair, we don't have any more in
the 1965 or 66 because that was something that they
had the riots up in new york and Harland but
her sister's and guns giving young son around so she
could go, we go back at the user every
summer for two weeks and visit and be the Transition
from from Mason Dixon. one side of Nixon.
Nixon was um you know, we go when we
would go to, we had the love with Virginia
had part of uh Indiana because of your brothers on
interstate that you wanna tell people there can imagine pre
81. Huh? I think I wonder what's taking
down. That's all we got real love in north
and you have to go wine. You know what
? You got to go through a part of indiana
, A part of Kentucky to get to the pennsylvania
. Turn back. Okay. And then you found
the pennsylvania turnpike. I think we got chip in
the mail into because these bridges you have to go
through but when she depends on trump and it's like
, well this is seven heaven. You have a
personal major back to the Ohio turnpike. We stop
in um going to Ohio we're stopping howard johnson was
in korean ho jo's we stopped there and we get
these big old buttermilk pancakes and the way people treat
his name was unreal because you got the best you
can tell me I didn't South can't you? What
are you doing this morning? So people are speaking
because like with long lost friends that you guys use
guys from Virginia And maybe I was getting I was
having a nice vehicle. Just got your travel and
said, well we look forward to seeing you because
you're coming everywhere. We dated for 30 years I
guess. Well we have just the food was good
. And then you get the pancake, the pancake
make the big as a plate. They have a
so michael tummy a little bit. What what you
may recall about the integration and in the closing of
saint Lukes. If you recall that time I do
because they told us that the church would be closing
and it would be absorbed to the other churches.
I was from the medicine about that because it was
, but it wasn't because whenever we would uh have
to go to and they asked us encourage us to
go visit other pistol churches. And they mentioned churches
ST john saint lesbians Saint paul is saying, so
there's all sister churches in the diocese. Well,
and then see what church do you think you like
it? And your church was closest to you.
Well, the thing that did, I was like
about the church was that my sister was in the
hospital million years ago for something. She had a
minor surgery. Well, people found her, she
was in the hospital and they came to visit her
or flowers or a fruit basket and she said,
I don't know these people, I see it all
. They knew you're Episcopalian. And she said,
as soon as I get out of church, I
got a hospital, I'm going to go to the
church. And that's when she went to, because
I'm going to visit the church. Let's go visiting
ships with the ST James because people found out that
the people who bought the food baskets both live from
ST James church, You know, 2nd ST James
Shit. I said, you know, because I've
gone to ST Elizabeth, being there for about 15
years with the ST john's a couple of times.
And you know, I always felt like, did
you know, I didn't necessarily uncomfortable there, but
they feel the most comfortable and ST john's was,
it was really touted as the money church because all
the problem with business leaders, the a matter of
fact, the ceo of the north, uh,
southern Northwestern time, he and the executive vice president
. But there a lot of people, business people
and running With the ST John's. and then,
you know, when people say you pass play around
, if you can put$1,000 in the collection plate
, you can be a member. So, you
know, I heard those wives, they'll listen.
Yeah. So I want to say this was for
a number of years. It runs an old friend
by the end of uh tom mustard and it was
erected in and we just, we stopped talking after
I felt the kinship right away and then that's a
charm left. He went to, went to Georgia
. His wife passed and traumatic things happening. I
think his son and the source they have and it
was just a, but the tragic things happen to
town in a space of probably a couple of years
then. Uh, well I asked that that kind
of went to another church and okay, I'm arrested
going, I would come back in front of cameras
. Never had been going a long time at all
. So start going and start visiting the church that
I went to visit ST James with my sister And
on the whole time I was there when I said
, oh man, that's it. And it was
closer to my, my community where I live and
you have old friends and some of people I didn't
know, but some of the people who are there
who brought their food baskets and brought the cards and
flowers to my sister and denounced them all, they
knew that she was a Prisca pain, remember at
that church, but just in the same diocese,
I thought that was awesome. What year was this
that you were doing this? This problem? About
85 86. Okay. So long after integration.
Yeah, Okay. But you know the thing that
, and that's what it was. I thought about
two hours a day, You know what? Congress
has been integrated for years and people from the ladies
from Holland who came over and who participated in our
church. You know, the years, they just
gave me a kind of sense of like, you
know, and if I go and the thing about
it, which we didn't try that, but we
talked to and then amongst ourselves in the congregation at
ST louis, so we didn't go to church.
So I kind of like saint looks, I mean
ST ST john's okay, I kind of like ST
Elizabeth, okay, my godfather going mr Jordan and
I'm going to ST Elizabeth. He was a junior
warden there. So when you asked me because uh
college, just like um, you still want physical
choose. I said, yeah, I wanna go
because of the time I had, the guy got
married, my wife was baptist, but I'd always
go to pistol shrimps first and then we got there
and then we go to check from here. So
, but I think the fiscal church especially, no
, no saint Lukes was, they had been at
the forefront and integration and backward. It wasn't,
it wasn't chic, it was involved to be the
integrated that said that between 11 and 12 o'clock on
some of the most segregated out on the week.
I believe that because you know, it was all
things that many people, white choices, black people
in my choices and some people said they wanted that
black experience, they wanted the find brimstone preaching,
They wanted the something wanted to shouting, I want
the good music. Well, I think people that
church, I said, no, you're not gonna
get all the music, you know, the bang
on PM, you just music or something like,
you know, like I said, you know,
I've been like a heart moving with it. I
said no, but your music and I said it
would be something you probably heard of. Never heard
that. He said about the draft of the movie
. Well, okay. I said, but I
wasn't meaning to it. That's it. Yeah.
So, and people in the UK change people's upbringing
. But do you know, they didn't introduce them
to different things because I'm not trying to force the
government institutions to treat that's never been to into a
greek greek, Orthodox church. No, nothing,
nothing. Religion. No, But I heard,
you know, that your bedroom, I see you
have the privilege. And I said, this would
be a privilege to go to a synagogue. She
said, oh, God, no. I said
, you know, you don't need a tour.
But you know, I said, if you don't
get to just go and voted in one of the
services, if you have a good one and see
how either do you think you feel you fit in
or how far removed that you think you are as
you better way positive attitude. He said uh I
said man does not want to 11 time in West
Virginia where they handle snakes. I said let me
tell you we are all educated simulation. But then
there are different variations of the same thing and I
still this year's I said just like and so there's
arab but this year there's a Sunni, there's a
Hanafi, there's all different, they're all Arabs,
there are muslim but they're different sects are the same
sect. He said okay lets you know S.
E. X. S E C. T.
That's a religious sect, that's the so but they
are the same set but they have just a little
different sway on their on their religious things and what
they think of what they do. So but the
wrong kind of led the forefront because when mama he
came here, he wanted to come to, he
heard about saint Lukes, how he had about saying
things I don't know he needed, but because it
was from Holland were always, they were the ones
who pushed that, but he heard about the same
books and they integrated uh koji and integrated uh combination
because I guess that was not, that was not
impaired, that's almost it was like you do it
, you know, you go just where but you
know nobody the people, they're just saying, hey
we're all God's Children and I believe that from a
long, long time ago. So did he come
to ST louis? Did do you remember it?
Because I don't think I was like wow, could
we sit down on the floor? And I just
talked to him just like we all kind of gathering
and sit down and we're talking in this influence had
seats and just talking about different things and we're talking
about the Montgomery boycotts and how people had fought for
equality. I think this is what people are fighting
for. They said, yeah, we have,
you know, have achieved what people are thinking for
. We all had to come together in there because
we all had company that great awakening great day because
we're all God's Children. You said that you remember
what year this was the women who she was.
I had to google. It seems he he was
here because that was during the time they had to
go the freedom riders when they were going through the
different doing the south china and make people say you
have two big people up just to hang up,
just don't take any more. You know, it's
wrong. You see how long you say, I
think that's an atrocity speak up speak for because if
you look around and say personally want stanford were far
for does it stand for something? You'll fall for
anything. So and people lost their lives, you
know, it was a scary time. Do you
remember who the priest was at that at that time
? I would go gator. He was the president
. I can't think that. I wish I could
think the other generals name because uh was the white
priest with black priest priest and then there was a
white right and they were there every sunday together or
did they take turns deterrents and in the long term
because one go around and then it please well many
whites as blacks and when the other piece of rituals
went black square. So one thing like this is
black week, this is one week. You know
, it was just, so why did bishop money
and clothes, saint Lukes? I know, you
know, I didn't get a look because I think
the, because we had the families, we have
the, uh, the people, How many people
do you remember? What was your sense of it
? About 100 and then not that many came every
Sunday, but 100 altogether. And then, or
maybe 100 church on Sundays, but because you're a
big church. Yeah. And then seven people came
all the time and with the kids and the grandkids
and uh, it was just a sunday school coffee
with chocolate marshmallow. Like we're participating everywhere. It
was like, I was like interesting in front and
you miss churches like this church out and you feel
like, man, I miss my hot chocolate and
do snaps and marshall. But before you miss something
because it was a lesson they give you a lesson
about. And he said, because instead of sometimes
you preach that's fine, that's good stuff. And
some of them I'm gonna chase a rabbit and said
, what is he talking about? Because I'm a
kept it short and sweet because once you, once
your chicks in the city, once he starts,
when you start shifting weight, your minds isn't,
that's that's uncle that got the Stovall and the partners
, They want to keep it short and sweet and
people in the house and that's what the album liked
about the physical changes even today. And uh,
45 Mr. Now with community, I tell people
that go to eight o'clock says, yeah, We're
in their swelling music. 8:00, that's about um
, they're out there for if I missed the hour
and we're done. Yeah, I said, you
love this person. Summertime message. But you know
because at one time I got out and I had
been cleaned up a building and this one would be
cleaned up late at night and we had our workhorse
zone. I said I can't look just like they
said gotta take you just like you are good work
. Hold on. Well from that job to the
church, the church. And then when I'm mrs
oh my Because he was a cameraman at the t
. v. 10 that inside the t. v
. 10 then he has some other part time job
. He was much in Jordan so it was and
the interesting time because people, it just never was
a bump in the road for us at ST Lukes
when you go to church. I think also missed
this band, the church but a lot of people
just feel disjointed and didn't have felt that they fit
into the other church. The saint jean at the
ST James is the same. Uh, ST Elizabeth
, ST john's Yeah. Some staying power industry gets
fragmented. The church goes well if people felt that
they had commonality or new or another person, school
teacher, whatever the co worker and the church,
they went there and so the church got counted.
Just just for a minute now I talked to some
people would say, yeah, I want to I
am going to this church of this church that I
went back to. I want to go back to
my baptist church. My parents roots. Is it
? Hmm. So that was that to me a
big below never. They're trying out and maybe it
was uh, I was like now teenager, no
defender. Why there was not any reason given.
But you knew it had something to do with integration
. Or did you not know that? I didn't
know because they know that that was the furthest thing
from because because you were already integrated. Think of
yourself as a black church. What about him Lock
haven? Do you have any memories of him?
Like cave in? They want their once I think
once, um, when Canadians warrants? Well tell
him I can, but that was a long time
ago and experience was was okay. But you know
, again, you know, it's like anything you
guys want. You see, you see familiar faces
like, oh, it's like putting on the old
shoe. It's like, oh man, you know
, Yeah, there isn't it? And that's where
people go to, that's how it makes them feel
. I can make them feel like they're at home
against it. See one person that you've seen.
Yeah, three years and you notice, oh man
, this is great. So I'm going back home
because no, I did I saw people that I
knew but I didn't I didn't see anybody that and
then it's like it was it was different, it
was fun. Um You go for summer camp,
do you remember? No one wanted up there to
visit for a full day. So it was like
it was it was like in the woods. Yeah
it is in the deep woods. Did you go
with a church group with youth group or went with
with the youth group, church group going to church
group from ST louis and the whole A group of
teenagers went up or uh quite a few point because
it was a Muslim about 10 hours and girls that
when you guys got to get outside, she saw
a snake and she needs is an idea. I
think I'm like well what do you want something with
us? They're ready to go throw up there.
You want to walk around, you didn't go for
a dance or something. Uh, just went up
and it was the place. And that's it because
we had heard about him like, hey, we'll
be right back to where they had to go fishing
. There's a big, big like over in a
, the guy starts to say that's a d playground
goes from over there. So where did you visit
? Do you remember had been in the early 60's
Because I was in high school in 64 high school
, Lucy Addison High School Ensusiasm Marching 100. Did
you get a look at you look at the Washington
, which is right down the street on Douglas Avenue
. That's good. Uh, let's see. So
you went from ST luke's when it closed and they
just came in and said ST luke's clothes and pick
another church, right? And so you went to
see Elizabeth and stay there for a number of years
, 15 years? Uh 15 years. Okay,
so that's where and then did you go off to
, you went off to college? I was in
college, they say, yeah, I was remember
ST Elizabeth allowed to college and no, no,
no Dominion. Did you go to church when you
were in college once? Because there was not Episcopal
church clothes from the catholic church? Uh not too
far from where I lived because I didn't have a
car when I first went down there because the freshman
Connecticut then I gotta call my second year. But
then I lived out in the Virginia beach fire department
without Virginia beach, which was like 20 miles,
30 miles when I was what the catholic church?
And I felt like I found the service. I
think I went with a friend of a friend out
there and we went there and he said like,
wow, that's not too much different from the physical
church because I'm the Jersey maybe father they also serves
and everything. And then, and then go for
it, didn't go there, I would come home
. Yeah. And then, uh, at the
night I was came back home and went to second
Send some more kept growing and then and had a
disruption at the church because it wasn't because some of
the members thought that the priest was taking advantage of
the lady, that he was a widower and the
director end up man here and some people in church
that there was just out playing this go, she's
gonna be like, hey, his wife has died
and his name is David. How does a man
of means? Someone over come on. So then
I just didn't like the way that that came out
because they were like, you married her to me
and they had a lot of money to. So
, you know, I think, I think they
thought that he was an opportunity to something that whatever
. Yeah, I don't want you, but I'm
thinking I can and I like, I guess I
was personal because I like to have to make the
person a lot personally and professionally. I'm thinking like
, but so they kind of give them the sanitation
and that's kind of okay. I was kind of
drifting. I just didn't go to church for him
for a while. And my sister said, hey
, what about the ST James gas through all that
? And I was the first day I was like
, I've been kissing so much in my life,
like she don't know me. And then one idea
over there, a couple of money boots, boots
, ingram. I still love boots today. And
uh, he pretends last name. Everybody's came back
. I was like, how you doing? I
don't think like, wow, okay. This is
what I would move about. The post pictures down
like, and to this day For that, I
go to the doctor and I'm gonna go to the
10:00. Just tell my fiance get kissed in the
car. Yes. We just love Michael Lord.
They'll see you much because it's like two different congregations
. Yeah, eight o'clock, eight o'clock at 10
o'clock till I go to 10 o'clock and then 10
o'clock song. And some people were new. People
say, hi, welcome to saying the same thing
that's done. I've been working with us and that's
what you think. I know what I've been here
about 20 years. Uh I'm the eight o'clock,
Oh yeah, have been something. He's been his
old, he's been here for years, so he's
been, he's been Africa's kids came up here.
My son has the Salomon sonia in kindergarten. I
was teaching kindergarten there, qin wang crisis testicle,
but I went to the uh, to the middle
school, then the junior, there's a singer.
So I had all the kids now, they got
kids around, I'm just telling us it, How
you doing, you know, it's actually, it's
like I said, My, because I went to
10:00 about playing a couple of months ago as the
grandmother ensemble missions of people. How you doing what
I'm saying, James and I don't think Yeah,
but this sound and that's what I liked about it
and uh, not fancy, but she was like
, hey, you went to church today because you
got messing with. She was much know what I
mean? I said, I sit down. Yeah
, I stopped going. Said, I said,
you're going to see, yep. And she said
something about it. And that time I said,
you got like, you know, I think that
the same showers. I said, yeah, just
I see how germophobic are you. Did you know
, she said, okay, it's a bit cousin
to my knowledge has ever died or got sick from
, from channel saying what showers, cecilia. So
yeah, that's it. And you think about some
people were really gender farmers that we really gets to
me. You think of smart sipping on johnson bigger
and you're gonna get in there. So if you're
going to, if you're gonna do guys working,
you're going to listen to the boy, got it
, let's get sick during their legacy or something.
You know what I'm about to pass around somebody.
But as you know, but is interesting and I
wouldn't want to be anything else but Episcopalian and I
had other religious experience, is going to the church
is not just once or twice, but government,
we've had the bases of going and all churches kind
of the same except it is the experience you get
. And I always felt closer to the guy,
young people and people just watching you go out.
You know, you say your best, your food
and stuff. You know, people use this,
you know, people say, I always liked you
cause do you know what that means to say?
Do you know what that means? Is that I
do with these three fingers, I see those for
that father son and Holy Spirit. He said,
wow, that's, you know, the stations of
the cross. He said, uh, you know
the station that across, I said I said you
here but each different, you hear that at least
one game. But jesus christ, crucified is taking
the dragon across, let's deal with the stations across
it and that and only introduction to know the church
. But to religion was the guy took philosophy,
religion was in college and then my professor was standing
, why wouldn't you get all this information? That's
it. I came up in the Episcopal Church,
uh that explains your catholic, I say well the
catholic diocese, your Episcopal diocese, but we'll see
. Yeah, he said because they went back to
breaths and he made that he was uh he s
PhD post doctor in religion, philosophy relation, he
just kind of uh and I understand I stood latin
too, you know, when he was just saying
what wow in and he said yeah, and he
said, and then then you had one thing in
latin include mrs Kavita ago soon and he said,
hey, can anybody tell me what that means?
I think therefore I am. Yeah, I said
yes. I said, he said where one way
? He said, wow, you say, I
know, you know that that's it, but you
know said my country has to be in latin,
that's part of the business service is being latin and
they both get into english, that's it. And
I sit there and listen to the people and then
people yes, that's most of them. I do
. That's it. That's it was really interesting because
these are people now go to the other church and
said, where is the name? What is it
about? That? Uh that's the ultimate, he
was okay because the stations of the cross to they
like why? And that was like, how do
you know this stuff? I don't know, I
don't know. This confirmation classes in the car.
And I said, well, you confirm, you
know what, you know, that's it right now
, that this transition relation they transcend goes to church
, you probably found some ministers have probably been and
, you know, and that's and all languages have
been in church for years. Yes, the stations
of the cross, this uh, stationed across not
sadistic. Uh, because uh so it was just
that and and that experience you can't take away from
because and we were like, my sister was taking
bible study classes because she actually joined another church before
she passed mass dodge. And uh, she was
becoming teaching class. The minister was doing the teaching
, we can teach them using, it's tough.
And she's taken herself, she didn't say it's different
. I already learned 8189 years old and you practice
it every week, you know, and you do
it. So, so with them even things about
how to be an acolyte come on. Like when
you like two cans when we just let the cameras
and anything. I see the same thing that Peter's
basilica and she has become multiple as you know and
see him. I said that's the job because that's
a highly religious conspiracy and what they do okay,
dictates what to put approach dance because in a vacation
, I mean you're gonna have to go through a
training, correct, put something that we could,
you know, we could be a who's Baltimore I
see the color autoworkers acolyte because it could be an
altar girl, okay. And they know it's really
killing the killing and keenly aware of and the Children
how impacts everybody, you know, and then how
people are taking religious and be people across the head
with it. And then now people are taking religion
in just going to succumb to it, you know
? But is this an interesting is how people that
let you choose your own religious uh being and how
you how you chancing that, you know later on
in life, because some people just fall away from
the church, those things that bring up in the
world, the church and do not want to part
from it. So then you'll see people and my
son is in law enforcement, federal law enforcement.
One of the things, they're doing a background check
. That's what I said. I don't I have
to ask you to do that, but they haven't
asked them to go to church. Now people think
that I don't care what people think about me.
Yes, you do because when you run a background
check, because we do a background check for me
and my sister, because she went to families,
fell along for Susan FBI. I don't want to
know if you know how I got a person she
was. You know, you see this, you
have the other that's my grandmother, you know,
uh interviews about two hours here with Michael Cannon,
grams. It was growing up was just standing up
and asked people who were in the neighborhood who,
you know, he thought you didn't know who you
Yeah, he was he was good luck guy.
He's got my gas use this, that uh he
was a hell right, You know, So that
is something that Mhm. The kind of is with
you all your life. Even to the end when
he said, people say, well, you know
, yes, you go to church. Yeah.
Because some people don't go to church and they just
have to have a, your family in the chapel
. They have a preacher and neighborly love. I
can almost after saying, okay, well he's sitting
on church. To me, that's, that's always
been big. And my dad was always, my
mom told me always big on there because you need
to have a uncle. What, what, what
, what is uh, affiliation is known as you
have one And those get baptized as long as you
have one. Let me ask you a question.
That goes back to that very point. You said
that when you first started going to ST Lukes that
they wanted you to be baptized. And your father
said, well, you've already been baptized. So
were you baptized again in the Episcopal Church? Okay
. So do they call it? What do they
call it? Because maybe I acknowledge that you don't
even Yeah, because it happens because, you know
, some treasures were saying you can come to my
dad's baptism, we're gonna actually dunk in the water
, You extra virgin water. And you're about to
ask now and uh, pistol church was they Sprinkle
, they actually have a women, they put it
across there and it's very close by the whole of
the world over and the million baseball go, how
do whatever you make the sign of the cross?
So that is then. And I guess that is
there, um, yes, thanks for being baptized
. Because they always say in the book of common
prayer, you know, that you are on baptism
because in your future for your baptized, you're baptized
christ owned for life. You know, So I
couldn't, I didn't know that. I mean that
I was not thinking like I said as significant brother
and sister both of baptize. I think I know
what I think you say. Yeah, because you're
baptized. I'm thinking like, okay, so I
don't want to get baptized, you know? But
everybody I tell them they've been baptized, okay,
well I never saw anybody in the Episcopal Church get
dunked in the water, so they're always for a
Sprinkle, you know? So I think of like
mm so that was my my dad was ended by
big McShay said one of the little kids and you
never know what's gonna happen to you. But so
I was so young. I didn't remember it because
he said he was in a creek. I really
don't think my older cousin told me because my dad
told me, I think, but I never read
the details of, because my daddy passed though because
she said, oh I was there. She said
you and jan on the book I baptized, let's
say yes, yes, we're going to put you
on. That's, wow. That's something, you
know that. So, you know, that was
something that I, that we never, we never
talked about it and say we've been baptized. Yeah
. Because maybe I told the people at the church
, you've been baptized and they wanted to baptize you
again. Anyway, I guess that there's there there
, yes. The information of the baptism, I
guess there was because they, and as I can
remember, was it in the baptist tradition that you
were baptized before and they baptized you again? And
how soon after that were you confirmed? Do you
remember? It was probably shortly after that, hmm
, going to be going to all the confirmation um
, glasses and, and the biggest I learned so
much about the, the Church in general, the
Episcopal Church in particular, but Church in general,
because it was uh, you know, so many
people don't know not about the Church, they're going
to sit there and I think it's what people want
to, because that's the way, you know,
churches church, God's got. Yeah. Yeah.
But you know, if you know the different things
about church, you makes you want to have a
little deeper into religion. You know, the different
passions of the battle when you say you have something
not stop talking. So it's 23rd song, you
know, It was myself and a 2nd 1.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he started
never money passes in the bible and it's starting you
kind of users rest your life, you know,
I think, Yeah. You know, and then
some people don't know where the girl for solid,
sometimes they go to the battle. Battle hasn't changed
in all these years. You get to the new
testament, the old testament. And I tell people
. And then he took us to the Book of
Revelation that was different. I said Book of Revelation
was written yesterday because relations suppose stuff they're supposed to
be happening kind of, you know, So I'm
saying that maybe wars, rumors of wars will be
dis invent something like wow to be less. If
you're not ready for revelation, they're not read it
because it's scared. Yeah, I said but that
was hardly was written many hundreds of years ago.
So then as you know, as much economic Episcopal
Church as far as two people come out another church
because they'll just go to church. Yeah, I
want you to get back to them and they stand
but some there's no require you to know or not
. They want, you know, they want their
banks and new members mean? But remember the church
? Not much. No. double secret handshake and
like that. But you got to know some things
about the church. I kept you away long.
We've got another 30 minutes. Okay, let me
ask you 12 more questions. I keep saying that
. Okay. Any last thoughts about Bishop Marmee?
And that's one question. And are there any other
african american peers from ST luke's who were still around
that? I might want to talk to um Bishop
Mommy that he was you know, he came to
us, we open our arms and with open heart
and you know, and that's again a kind of
but I guess we were kind of let's say giving
people kind of experiments experience uh huh in southwest Virginia
in Virginia and rock in a particular because yeah,
again, I said that didn't happen in rural Virginia
. I mean, even though people didn't fighting for
us and but people just kind of, it's kind
of unspoken racism like mm he said we want another
guys, you know, and I think in our
neighborhood, our particular neighborhood we didn't okay can venture
out much. But I guess there's a lot of
people didn't have that racism. Hardhearted racism. Some
of them are on to the core, but there's
a reason by them. They don't bother us.
But the bishop is I guess trying to do this
, try to institute some change and to say sometimes
you enforce racism individual people, but you do because
that's the thing to do because God said we all
want, we're all one church and that's it was
because you get church divided. It's different. But
as far as any other people of americans in,
most of them happen, I'm saying the muslim have
passed on. Another one would have been my sister
, um, what's her name, john ella jean
military and she has passed in july, the one
sister has, there's two of us and In most
of the people in their age, their, you
know, 65-67-68 and said because there's because we grew
up with that a lot of my pants down,
some wanted to the other person, they got married
with other states and places and passed on. And
I can't think of one other person. She was
in south Carolina where no one lives here, but
she looks for the city wrong. And I don't
know if she how involved she would be, she's
been involved in the church. But then count yourself
, she end up going baptist church because again,
when that happens like exploded. You know, employed
the next day at the same time. So she
left the Episcopal Church and joined the baptist church after
ST louis was closed. I might be interested in
talking to someone who didn't stick with the Episcopal Church
. What was her name? Andrea? Andrea Haley
, Is that her name now? She was she
was Andrea Galloway and she works for the city.
Do you have her contact information? Yeah, because
yes, she was coming up About 10 paces,
nothing here to, you know, the different where
I lived. And then she's going to church members
and she had a sister lives in south Carolina.
But the other ones, uh we had a we
had a mess school of about 35-40 kids. A
lot of them are gone and gone on there like
. Well, that's the last thing about going,
I've enjoyed hearing about growing up years. And in
your neighbourhood. A ball ball. Any anything I
didn't ask that I need to ask or anything you
want to comment on. I think it's pretty kind
. I hated that that happened that I did because
, you know, I'm just, I'm like this
and I found out there is because of integration.
I just thought the church was a lot of times
you have churches, not financially, uh, they
say, okay, well, let's close this one
because it's not meaningless functions work. But I know
the people that gave nice sums of money. But
yeah, he because there because it's like, you
know, as I'm saying, we've really got to
confirm, but not bring people over there and then
we went to the other people because once you,
you know, fragment that church, that body,
you never get it back together again. So I
was like, and I think some people, and
if you get an opportunity, like the homeless students
there, then they'll come to ST look and say
, wow, it's not just with a small church
. And I guess, I guess that was the
things you look at two. But the bigness of
the building doesn't necessarily make the, the the place
it's gonna be even warmer. And then to make
it any more better religious experience because we had a
wonderful religious in that. And then the church we
have, so it's like a guess what we got
across a long time. So I should cross over
us. You know, so that's I kind of
saw that Campbell because when people are approaching you like
we can go, I mean chinese church and transfers
them. Uh, hey, apprehension was they want
, you won't get the same as the same looks
experiencing. Yeah, maybe one or two people to
know. But then you kind of go policy is
white people, black people. And when people feel
comfortable, you know what I'm getting. Some people
come from seeing people had some ice from another account
here. But you know that that's right. That's
right. And that last bit is going to end
up in dissertation, Okay?