the book and the article still maintain their place in
the discipline. But who knows With, um,
with changing technologies, we have new opportunities, and
there's possibilities of new forms, which we're seeing
happen all the time and open education. And I
end with just this. So one of the biggest
publishers, um, in the education world is Pearson
. And two years ago, they had their largest
loss. Um, in history, they lost
2.34 billion pounds that year. Last year they
had they had to come back. But what we're
seeing is commercial publishers that we're doing. We're doing
educational work. We used to do the textbooks trying
to shift over now to kind of all of the
materials around, um, textbooks. And it's unclear
yet how that's gonna work out. But they're trying
a company like trying to control the entire, um
, education market. And, um, and I've
heard discussions lately about maybe some of the big communication
publishers like Elsevier may buy Pearson for some of the big
, in which case there would be consolidation.
So I don't think any of us really want to
see that's so for how many of you is the
the words open access, new or newish sort of
new new box. Okay, that that's helpful.
Um, something that Peter did not talk about.
What? The declaration on open access. And I
want to point out that there are some similarities between
, uh, what we call open access and what
we call open educational resources. Um, license on
this slide that has a little person and has a
C.C. Uh, this is a creative
Commons license, and it very closely mirrors the
text in the Berlin Declaration. So one of my
questions, uh, is whether there overlap between open
access and open educational resources. Are these roughly the
same things? Um, when we talk about,
sometimes we talk about the ability to copy and shape
sometimes, uh, about the ability to get something
online. And so I would That's no different.
Um, because open educational resources are by definition
licensed with creative allowed copied, it'll be remixed,
uh, to be adapted. Shared. Um,
how many of you are currently [inaudible], uh
so sometimes? Well, materials don't quite fit your
class. Probably most of the time, you'll have
course materials that don't quite fit and do you want
to provide the best for the learning objectives in your
course, you may want to change some examples in
course materials. You might want to change the pictures
. Maybe you want to add a chapter or remove
something, um, license material items with these kinds
of licenses to adapt materials and to customize them so
they fit your course so they fit what your students
needs to fit your objective. Uh, it's different
Building a course around a textbook or around, um
, of a set of readings. Your course around
a set of learning objective. Um, so you
think about what? What would What is important for
my students to learn And what do we need to
do to get there? Create play since is,
uh eh month essentially five permissions. And these are
things that are just to tell you is this,
uh so you can ask. Can anyone retain it
? Can you keep it? It's rental. That
expires. Um, can you repeat? Um,
is this something that over and over Can you revise
? Can you remix it so you can combine it
with something else? And can you share it?
Um, so these are and then the the force
instances and the two public domain market that you see
on the left are the sort of visible indicators of
kinds of resources. Well, what are we talking
about? Um, if you look in the back
, there's a a display textbook, um, have
a Creative Commons license on them. They're available in
print for$50. The electronic version is freely available
online, and then, since that allows it should
be edited. One of our members in Pamplin adapted
the book that you see on the screen, um
, from another open textbook and uses it in in
the course that he teaches, the course has over
700 students in the fall. So, you know
, um, this is a great benefits of students
, but it's also very interesting for this faculty member
. He's continued changes. He's continued to add things
he's continued to to experience with the format and to
see what else. What else could he do with
it to make um, look better for his students
? Another sample and this is very excited. A
faculty member Young university has a group of graduate students
adapt a book on project management and customize it for
instructional designers. How many of you are the program
? Anybody here? Instructional design? No. Okay
. Uh, so this book is, uh,
several semesters of students improving it. And now it's
freely available online with an open license, and people
are using it in their instructional design courses as a
sort of product. Um, since you're writing and
you're, uh, doing graduate level work, you
could probably ask What kind of what? To adapting
somebody else's work to make it relevant for a particular
discipline. Lots of writing, lots of review,
lots of analysis. Lots of really hard work.
Right. Uh, so these these students took this
on a project, Um, that was related to
their their, um, achievement in their course.
Um, other people have together public domain materials.
So materials are out of cops, right? Because
of their age or their out of copyright, because
, uh, they were donated to the public domain
because they were created by someone in the U.
S. Government as part of their official duty.
Uh, and they've replaced things like, uh,
for different kinds of literature. Um, so we're
thinking Okay, well, free online. That's nice
. That's really nice. Um, but but where
are you going? So we've been talking a lot
of content. We're talking about snacks to journal articles
we're talking about, but, uh, videos,
things that you can modify. Um, I want
to push us just a little bit further into talk
about the process of teaching and how we the process
of teaching a little bit more parents a little bit
more relevant. So you're not writing papers that end
up in a trash can, But you're doing work
. You're creating things that are useful in the real
world. So I want to just leave you with
, um, some ideas about been pedagogic e.
And I hope this comes up in our conversations.
It's been a big part of today, um,
symposium. Uh, but my my argument is that
by, um, changing the student to, um
, teacher relationship giving students more freedom, more responsibility
, um, in in their learning, uh,
and connecting the real world. So doing work that
matters in the real world that students are engaged on
a deeper level. Um, they're more motivated to
, um, to go deeper, more curious about
what they're studying. Um, this kind of learning
produces and equity among students because it's not reliant on
who can afford what? Uh, and it produces
value for the real world. So, um,
I hope that you're able to make some connections between
all of the different opens. Um and, um
, I'll turn this over to Peter for, um
, the rest of our discussion, so thank you
for your time. Um, any questions about any
of that? Yep. Okay. Just work.
Okay. Um, so as far as open goes
, I know there's a lot of open proceeding a
bunch of different topics. So when it comes to
differentiating between each open, are we differentiate on.
That is kind of makes sense. Um, anybody
wanna tackle that one? As you guys to us
involved on that. Okay. Alright, this is
strange. Um, um, it's a really good
question, and it feels like open is used as
a modify anyways, right? Um, but it
is different. So? So one of the things
that's not explicitly on our agenda today, for example
, would be open science. And so open science
practices really speak to a range of practices. So
I think you're talking about really quite different things.
Uh, like when you're comparing registering your hypotheses,
for example, or your analysis plans is quite different
than openly licensing. Um, educational materials, some
of them as practices are more similar to each other
than others. And so I think that's where your
question to me, uh, really arises from when
you look at open access for your publishing materials with
an open license, uh, or open educational resources
for your publishing things with an open license. Uh
, in some cases with different applications. Um,
I will just add that sometimes there is overlap,
and I need to sort of pointed to that.
So if you think about, let's say you teach
an upper level costs for which there is no text
photos taken one, um, and your instructor or
you, if you're the instructor puts together articles,
Chapters is a bit of a cost back. Um
, give a bunch of those articles for being assigned
as teaching and learning resources. In this case,
I happen to be open access, published journals or
from open access Public Journal. Then you've got the
real overlap between open access, and we are.
But in most cases they're they're different practices. What's
similar, though other values that underpin them. And
so that's probably one of the things I imagine we're
gonna talk about. Yes. Hm. Because open
. Open it. I didn't understand what open educational
resources are, but, uh, and she pointed
out certain examples. But then how we differentiate that
this is I get the APP, But then what
is exactly open access and then this overlap is not
like if you imagine the exam and what is open
access, open education, resources and overlap. It's
a very good question. I feel like I need
to turn it over to my life. I think
it's generally when we talk about open access. We're
talking about the results of research, so that would
be a differentiation with we are, which are really
teaching materials. So, um, it'd be pure
reviewed scholarly articles. You can also have open access
books, books. Um, so that's the main
difference. And, um, in terms of definition
, um, it means, um, you can
have access to it on the internet. You can
get to it and read it. Um, but
also that, uh, license as well that uhm
creative Commons license, which allows you to distribute it
. You could host it on your own site.
You can borrow figures and tables or photographs from that
, as long as you attributed to the information in
advance to use. And so, um, I
think the research. Okay, so important. Answer
your question. Okay, I just I would like
as we begin to, um I'm not gonna answer
the question. I'm gonna ask the question, um
, what is open science If you can give some
examples of open science because that's different than open access
. And I mean, it involves more of a
process, um, and open data. And I
know we're supposed to be on open, and,
uh, but I think it would be good to
have that kind of background. One of the things
I was trying to point out of my comments of
open in the academy started around open access questions of
access because there was this fear with the coming on
the Internet, with libraries in particular, going digital
and getting rid of print copies. It was this
idea that you might lose our heritage. So how
do we How do we preserve these? So there
was then access the idea that the Internet and technology
allows more global access to this material, and then
, over time, the the concept of open is
really expanded to include many of these other things.
At least that's the way I see it kind of
happening. Um, so these kind of other opens
of all part of become part of the same discussion
. I don't know how others feel about that.
If you see it the same thing, I think
it's so what? What would I call up?
And I will call up and science the We now
have the ability with the Internet to your whole process
, maybe have the infrastructure. That's awesome to do
it yet. But you can say to yourself So
previously before the Internet exists, all you're gonna see
is the publication at the end. You see this
nice narrative. It's really, you know, nice
and tight. There were no dead ends whatsoever,
no problems to get these conclusions, conclusions and all
this wonderful stuff that happened that just it's so simple
, right? And that's the way all the girls
research projects going right really straight and narrow, right
? So in this case with the Internet, I
could share that. I'm doing my research, my
background section, meteorology. I'm doing research. I
have this new research questions like Just go and put
it up on the Internet right away. Um,
actually mentioned this idea of pre registering, registering studies
. I have a high processes. Let's put up
the high processes right away. Here's my research design
for how I'm going to do this, All this
stuff to be captured and share publicly if we wanted
to. This makes a lot of people nervous when
we talk about doing this, but people are starting
. Researchers are starting to Some researchers are trying to
move in this direction. Just do everything and share
it openly. Put it on a block, put
it on the open science. Spring work is one
place to do this and just make it all available
. We were trying to thing. We use this
technique. It didn't work. We're trying to We
we switched off. It still doesn't work. We're
bending this research project. We're publishing this thing.
That's kind of related because we found something interesting that
way for being open about what we were trying to
accomplish and what we actually found. Where previously you're
just seeing the stuff that is published and the other
heart problem with that is you have this issue with
publication by us. If you guys have heard this
before, essentially. So the only stuff that gets
published in high quality journals or in journals of any
kind are the good results, the stuff that that
the your your hypotheses. So what about those things
where it didn't work out well, And, uh
, I can tell you, I know a couple
of people When I was doing the graduate research,
the reason they stopped working on what they were working
on it started working on something else is because they
had this conversation with somebody at the conference and they
were like, Oh, I'm gonna work on someone
said like, Oh, you you just start working
on that. We tried that three years ago and
here all the problems without that area of work at
the time. But I never figured it out unless
they unless the results of the public somewhere else So
the whole science process is made available. Uh,
we can see there's no results as opposed to this
. All the shiny, happy results else out there
a little bit. I feel like I need to
supplement what you just said as well um, because
when you talked about the the sort of motivation of
the open access, even working, um, the
open access, uh, movement coming from the field
that we will lose access to I feel like the
open access, Uh, the open science movements been
in part motivated by a response. So in my
field, psychology may have We're dealing with a slightly
produce ability issue right now. Um, quite fun
to watch. Um, but what's been interesting is
there's quite a gap between how we know science or
to be practiced and how it really is practiced.
And you've touched on a couple of examples of that
. But there's a fair number of people hypothesizing after
the results are known, or what you might call
harking. And if you preregistered hypotheses in your analysis
plans, that's a that's a solution against that.
That's a force against that. There are people engaging
in in every field. That's add a few more
, uh, you know, participants ourselves of the
roles of the data set until we get that magical
, uh, in a p value that we're looking
for that magical effect size right. So that's,
uh, that's again something that we can prevent by
by sharing data and open repository. Because you've done
that. Uh, and you preregistered. It's very
hard. Uh, it's very hard. We've had
a few high profile cases of data application, for
example, Um, there's a couple of researches of
thinking about one in the Netherlands. It was found
out because open data need possible and, uh,
and, uh, sort of post talk analysis of
this data set that revealed some clear copying and pasting
back in the sales. Uhm, you know,
and then, of course, you go further when
you're dealing with the reproduce ability problem. And it's
clearly been, uh, tradition in the field to
engage in these kinds of questionable research practices. Uh
, reproduce abilities only supported when you share not just
your data, but your research materials to instruments publicly
, Uh, and doing that is strengthening reproduce ability
. So So for me, yeah, it's about
access. Absolutely. But a lot of this has
to do with bigger and transparency, and along the
way it ends up costing quite a bit of collaboration
. Um, so the last thing I'll say here
is, uh, sent of open science was mentioned
. One of the things that that project has managed
to do is host what I called many labs projects
. So part of this idea is, let's revisit
the so called canonical findings Classic findings in our discipline
for that call and multi institutional research teams are looking
at the same set of studies classic studies to test
across 25% institutions at the same time using the same
preregistered plans. The same code the same, uh
uh, methods. Uh, and we're really making
the feel a lot more rigorous. But without the
framework of pre registration open data, open research materials
, this kind of seriously rigorous many labs work would
be impossible. So for me, it Yeah,
it's It's not just access. It's also about transparency
. We say we're open sciences. You mean the
the center? Yes. Oh, at the I
had them to know where it is. Yeah.
So, University of Virginia. Yeah. Yeah.
So, Brian is the the personal championship happens to
be a psychologist, which is handy when you're dealing
with the facility problem, but yeah. Thank you
. Um, I had a question about remixing and
the idea of I assume that with open access,
the journals and and books are um, peer reviewed
to some extent, but then when things start getting
remixed and you know the examples that, um,
I need to give on a couple of textbooks,
how do you assure that? Continued quality of those
materials if they're being used freely, anybody want to
tackle that one I'm happy to question. Oh,
God. Alright, well, I guess education is
a little bit more with where where I work.
Um, it's a really good question. So,
um, I'll give you an example. So there
was a a research methods. It's like all the
chi book that was published in the United States under
an open license, permitted revising and remixing. Uh
, I work with a colleague in Canada to create
a Canadian addition to reflect laws governing research. Um
, with human participants in Canada that since then,
demented, updated, improved by faculty and Texas in
Washington State College, it keeps rolling on. One
of the great things about this is first of all
, there are groups like the open textbook network,
which you happen to be a part of, uh
, which are host a repository for open textbooks like
the ones I'm talking about. And these repositories also
host, uh, open and transparent reviews from faculty
so you can go and then you can read reviews
of what? The book of you know what people
think of the book. You're looking at various criteria
. Not all of the books reviewed yet, especially
if you're talking about, like, a recent addition
. But, uh, you can certainly trace reviews
of existing books. And you can also trace what
changes have been made from one addition to the next
. Because that's one of the obligations of publishing.
A revised book is being very transparent about that.
Um, but at the same time, um,
uh, one of the interesting things about quality is
I think you can define it in many ways.
Uh, you can define it in terms of what
faculty think. And like I said, you can
find faculty reviews. Uh, you can define it
in terms of, uh, you know, context
. So if you're able to, for example,
in bed, local examples and statistics make it more
relevant, so you don't have to tell your students
. Don't reach out to five. Take that out
. If there's something missing, you can write it
in. If there's something that needs updating you can
make that change. In a sense, I would
say that the ability to revise and remix allows to
contextualize and improve the quality of the resource instead of
waiting for the next addition of a cycle that you
have no input on. But, uh, more
broadly, I will also, uh Yep. Can
I remember we mix it and just use it for
their class and not publish it again. Um,
the latter, you're absolutely free to devise remix without
publishing more widely for the Internet. Yes, but
of course, to the extent that using it in
your classes it's outside of your office computer. Anyway
, um, and one of the nice things that
even comes from the open source software movement is that
given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow. It's
very hard to hide with inaccurate content. When you
publish open access, you will be found out quick
. Um, do we have anybody in the classes
in, um, more on the humanity social science
side? Alright, so one of the things we're
dealing with now, I would give it sort of
the other side of the remixing arguments, and that
is so we Virginia taxes participating in a open book
initiative. 12 universities and we're giving grants to faculty
members$15,000 they can get. And if they publish
their book with the University Press and the university presses
willing to make it open, they get this grant
and they can. Then the book immediately becomes open
. So we're dealing with the licensing for these books
. And many of these are books by historians by
English language scholars or literature. Scholars and historians in
particular, are very nervous about making their books available
with a creative Commons. Say no derivatives. Um
um, part of the license because you're working on
an area like if you're working on, say,
Nazi Germany, you don't want people messing with your
very careful language. So that's a That's the kind
of thing that you know is why it's not a
simple discussion. Um, it really does bring up
issues that in many cases is kind of divides along
disciplinary boundaries. I think the sciences quite a bit
different than the social sciences in the in the humanities
. So I think that that's one of the places
where that's why there is granularity within the licenses.
You know, the C C. O license would
not necessarily apply to a field before would probably be
a better fit. Yeah, that's a perfect example
. Sciences typically can be remixed, reproduced and very
easily because that's more objective, so to speak.
Well, well, for example, you would not
want to have a book. But that's, um
, that's exactly why they're a different creative Commons licenses
. And when you're publishing your work, a book
or a journal, think about which one would apply
best to your field. If you're going to remix
or not, the idea being that you want to
share your work, you want as many people as
possible to put on your work, not necessarily switch
it up. And that, And that's one of
the things here at the library we're very good at
. Um, we have a lot of people in
the library. We deal with these issues, and
if you have questions about it when you're publishing something
and you wanna know what's the right license, we
can't tell you what license, but we can kind
of advise you on here are the here the reasons
why you might want to use this one as opposed
to that one. So Um, yes, Michael
. No, as long as you can. Um
, so you just mentioned the, um, like
a specific creative Commons licenses? Um, and I
was worried. I mean, not worried. Sorry
. Um, I was wondering if you could talk
a little bit about, like, the specific case
of, like, a thesis or dissertation, Um
, that is published and can be published under creative
Commons license. But that even though it's published as
an E T. D. You would still want
you. You still might want to be able to
publish stuff from that document. Um, and,
like how? That's, uh I just feel like
it's a little bit of a different or unique case
because you don't want to put it completely out there
, right? Because then yeah. Can you talk
? Are you talking about using the manual type of
dissertation and then trying to bring that in to your
dissertation into a journal? Right, Right. Yeah
. So I'll just local library in here. But
, um, I believe that it's going to depend
on the journal that you're going to publish Electra addresses
. I've been working with electronic education for 20 years
, so I have a little bit of experience.
And there have been studies done that have shown that
having your E t. D available online publicly,
openly accessible is not going to affect whether the,
um, publishers will accept your article that you you
know, the chapter you write for your dissertation is
usually very different from the article that you would write
for publication. It's going to go through an entirely
different period. You process. So those are things
that that publishers take into consideration. But the other
side of the coin that that you were bringing up
is when you publish an article before you've completed your
dissertation, you want to be sure that you don't
give away your copyright because then you have to ask
the publisher for permissions to put your own article in
your own dissertation. So that's something. Um,
a lot of people are afraid that, um when
they submit an article and they get that letter of
acceptance back and the publishers just now, give me
your right arm or give me all of your copyright
, and you just just so thrilled to have your
article accepted and you know that you need to get
published if you're especially if you're going to be an
academia that you're you're willing to give anything practically and
you don't wanna do that. Once you've had an
article accepted by a publisher, you are in the
best negotiating position you could possibly they want your article
. They're planning on having your article to publish.
And if they're still publishing and paper, they're already
thinking about how many pages that's gonna take up and
what part of the journal it's going to be in
. So don't be afraid to negotiate with the publisher
to ask to retain your rights, but give the
publisher some rights as well so that they can do
what they need to do. Okay, Hope I
answered questions about and copyrights let me know. Hold
on that. And if you don't know what rights
you need right now, those are the publishing association
. I don't know. There we go. Um
, their website has an annual that basically listed reach
out to your publisher regarding what rights you want to
keep when you put out your yes, and also
agenda. Other questions. Alright. We touched on
a little bit about disciplinary differences between maybe the community
and social scientist and, um science is, I
wonder in which ways holding open as a value devalues
interpretive methods of data analysis. Right, So,
like, I really appreciate it when you kind of
the different licenses. But in which was saying letting
data be open is a more rigorous form of analysis
, devalues other types of scholarship, more interpretive forms
of humanities and social science work. Does that make
sense? And I hate like That's a medical question
I don't know, like I'll take sure So,
yeah, I do qualitative research, and I've interviewed
people for basically. So I can't just go ahead
and share my interviews on the Internet because then there's
are identifiable and the person that that recipe identified for
whatever they said, which is held in privacy between
me and the interview person so I can't share my
data. However, that does not mean that I
can't work with other data. That does not mean
that I can't be open in other parts of my
research. Um, it is a way of I
don't think that it's the only way of rigor,
particularly in qualitative research. So, um yeah,
I think that it comes from a bit of a
paradigm shift, especially if you come from more The
americal sciences and kind of like, yeah, you
know, there's only one way to do an American
qualitative. It really just depends on the way to
view the world. So the way that the the
conversations that I've seen happen is be as open as
possible and as closed. So I share as much
as I'm allowed to share. And if that means
keeping my interviews in my own private, she'll be
it. So what? Sort of push this a
little bit and say, What would you recommend then
? I've talked to graduate students who have data sets
. They might eventually wanna make them open, but
they want to hold on to them until they can
get out of them what they want to get out
of them because they're afraid that maybe somebody will step
in and scoop them to scooping. Exactly. And
it happened. So how do people feel about that
whole issues You haven't thought? Yeah. Yeah,
So I think Yeah, I've I've been quite for
a while thinking about all of this and from the
point of view, from a research point of view
and from somebody who came from a different culture and
then interactive American way research. And I can check
, you know, I can share my, um
the thing I was the thing that I was thinking
about as the parking is linking all of this,
you know, you start with knowing and understanding and
applying, then synthesizing, evaluating and creating a And
to me, if we've logged this on the actions
and on the white access, you have the need
for open access. It looks like a bill shape
, maybe a different shape. But the point is
, it's not. It's not equal in all of
this. Because if you are sharing knowledge, then
of course, outsourcing becomes very important. And we
do that as a social network and other other means
. And, you know, it becomes very valuable
to open this the whole thing, right, and
collect the data and share the data and share everything
and your phone as well. Uh, if you
come to understanding, um, then maybe, you
know, the sharing here is not that people.
You're trying to understand something and, you know,
maybe at the end, your results you can you
can share your understanding. Applying. Uh, I
could see a lot of need for it, because
maybe I'm applying something, um, you know,
in my field, but that you coming open access
open science, maybe you can add to that application
. Or maybe you can take my box and of
white, and you feel that we help each other
. And so so that I haven't seen discuss as
much. And I think there is a room to
move. Um, that's that's one side of it
. I guess the other sign is scooping and and
and to me, that's the big issue that we
haven't talked about. The thing that I don't like
actually about doing research in the United States, um
, is that fact that they are always looking for
getting paid during the summer? You know, I
don't know how many of you notice, but you
know, like to get paid nine months and the
other three months they have to fight to get funding
to pay their salary. And not only that,
but also paying the salary of the graduate students,
which keep us awake at night. If we don't
have enough funding for, um, that makes it
, you know, two contradicting forces on one side
you want to share the whole thing, your whole
frame with everyone and get the benefit of others.
But at the same time, those others include your
competitors who are going to fight, you know,
on the scoop, some of your stuff. And
, you know, these two different things are not
really very much compiling with each other. And I
think there is a bigger issue that needs to be
a Anybody here have a data sort of A with
the data from the U. S. D.
A. At the research station in Colorado and,
well, we are not actually the owners of the
data, So they are letting us yesterday to,
but we have to stay in the whole agreement that
we're not gonna share this. And basically, the
main research objective is like to milk this data as
long as we can. So, so far,
they said that probably in the next seven years they
are going to participate and not right now. So
But I can imagine that in seven years, probably
there will be only a few people interested in while
we are working right now, So that produces a
little bit of how can I say this people will
lose interested and probably them. Accountability will not be
as if they don't listen to that right now,
which is what we're working right now. I mean
, I I will look to you for the to
open the database. No, I like to call
the state of mining. Your data is mine,
and my dad is mine. This is, uh
I called this regards. It's a classic collective action
problem, and in general, so So we already
actually mentioned that there's some some day that we can't
make available. It's there's it's your brief. You're
breaching the confidentiality of human subjects from which could be
value vulnerable populations we don't want to contact. So
we can't make everything open. We can make a
lot more open because we have the Internet. But
if I as the one researcher, nobody else is
sharing their data. But I'm like, I'm gonna
share my data. This is a great idea.
Well, I've given everybody else benefit and nobody else
is giving me. So why should I be the
first fly? Right. And and this is a
This is a serious now I think once the world
goes to where everything is mostly shared. Actually,
at the beginning, you're mentioning benefits. Okay,
so I'm doing research in meteorology, uh, for
a particular kind of sub discipline. But if I
make this data available to another person and I put
a really good documentation in it, somebody else can
use this data in some other way or my code
or some other parts of my scholarly work. An
entirely different new novel Ways maybe an entirely different discipline
if I work out making it really good. But
my personal thinking about running my career ahead, especially
as a young researcher, and we know how difficult
things can be funding it's hard to be that first
person. So I will. I'll sit in saying
that there are a couple of researchers, young,
early career researchers who have gotten tenure being as open
as they possibly can be. A couple of things
they said is they have been able to derive more
connections, more collaborations because they're making sure available.
And people like this is working on this. I
would like to work on that, too. Wow
. And they that collaboration by not have formed for
another couple of years because publications take forever to come
out. So there are some benefits making stuff available
, but it is a little scary, right?
You got this data set. That's really awesome.
And if you can hold on to it, you
can get publications. So should I give it to
other people? I don't know that it's a collective
action issue for sure. One thing I would,
um, and that, uh, has been a
response to the concern about scooping is that, um
, increasingly data sets are being viewed as their own
research object. So instead of together with the paper
, you know the paper and then you have the
data over here, especially if you have a large
, especially detailed data fit. Um, what you
can do is deposit and get it to you,
I for And so then people are signing your data
set. So one thing you need an additional publications
citations. So then you just citation for your papers
and citations for your data. Someone doesn't uses your
data, doesn't fight it, then that's you know
you're responsible, and the journal should reject their article
where where they come from, So that's been one
response to scooping is to make it public to the
date stamp on it for and then say Okay,
you want to use it, then you decide to
data is object identifier because it's just persistent, persistent
identifiers, just like the most articles. Yeah,
I know. I think that, um, a
couple of issues with open this in general open data
over here. Uh, but along with access agencies
, uh, one of the major on depending sort
of values of openness and so economy choice. It
is really important to the research and makes that choice
themselves. So I think not just in cases where
, uh it is allowed in appropriate. You think
research with indigenous communities, traditional knowledge. It has
to be handled different, for example. But making
that choice even if you sell, for example,
that's absolutely fine. Um, but the type is
turning as well. I can give you an example
of the major Are one university in my backyard,
the University of Columbia, where the top banks psychology
department in the country. Now anyone who applies for
a job that how they are incorporating if it all
open science practices, That's the question every candidate is
asked now U b c. So it is changing
. Uh, it will come to a point where
, uh it's not just the open access citation advantage
that if you published open access, people have to
be more likely the video work. Uh, but
being, uh, embracing these practices actually is a
reflection of your approach to what we claim to be
performing in the way of scholarship. So I want
to follow up on that because I like this.
And I think the the key word here is initiative
and practice, right, because I don't want to
. Also, the people that I know of someone's
case was really active open this, that I heard
he had problems with him and he had to actually
move to another university. And you look at his
work and it's a music, you know, it's
like So unless there is an initiative or the place
that you're working for is really embracing it, it
could be challenged. Hi. Um, so I
kind of have two points the first, um,
I in terms of data, the thing that I
could see is being an issue with open data is
a lot of times of researcher has a certain method
, um, applied to that data. So that
data is quality data only under a certain set of
circumstances, especially in scientific data. I can really
do that. Um, my other thing is,
actually I personally have found that what is a lot
more powerful than open data is open methods. So
there have been so many times as a researcher,
I needed to collect my own data for whatever reason
. It wouldn't matter if there was open data because
they didn't look for some certain things that I needed
. But I can't find any of the methods necessary
to reproduce anything that they did. And the issue
with this is It said, I think everything behind
because we're working on a common problem and we're all
working towards some common end, but we're not able
to access any of these things. I've encountered this
through so many different kinds of research that I've done
, and I think open methods is really I think
the future of open access more so than open data
because I think the progression of specifically scientific research would
be faster on those connections would be more interesting there
. There is some of that happening. Now there's
a site called protocols dot io that, uh,
where people contribute contribute protocols in one place where you
can look them up and see a methods that people
use. So I know that's one effort. Um
, but I'm not aware of others. I don't
know if anyone else. One of the things we
talked about here in the library, we published journals
in the library and we talked about having a,
um, a journal of negative research results. Um
and that if that would catch on, then there
would be less and incentive to just get the right
answer. You know, 11 part of the one
part of both the methods is kind of related to
data is toast. A lot of research now is
computational not, and not every not a lot of
those computational and, uh, and a lot of
cases I don't need the data if I if it's
not a lot, but so we're looking at,
I need the code and I need to know how
to use this code. And, uh, sometimes
the codes not made accessible. A lot of times
codes made accessible, and not no one put the
license on it. So especially it's copyrighted, and
you can't change it or maybe even use it.
Um, that could be a real problem there.
Are you There are many ways these days, uh
, to to share code and make it accessible and
usable for others. If you guys used to get
help for for managing your own code or also make
those and make a public and share it with other
people. Um, this is another part of the
reproduce ability issue and and being able to talking about
the methods. Well, somebody's already coded up this
wonderful statistical technique or computational modeling technique, and they've
already worked out all the bugs for it. Why
do I need to recode it again? Uh,
that's you know, it's really nice to people share
these kind of things and say, Hey, please
use this. I put it up in access.
I I put a GPL codes, uh, license
on there and make it available. Um, yeah
, that's that's another big part of of this,
and that's just as well. It is also a
sign. I really appreciate, uh, making this
point that you all these we can elevate all of
these products are also just as critical for doing research
, the code, the data, all the methods
you know, we're gonna do for a full methods
, make them all first class research projects, and
then they have to be all that publication. Yeah
, I mean, and to continue on with the
code issue. This is a huge thing that I
actually had to deal with. Kind of like the
last, like, year and a half is like
we're working with code designed by G. So essentially
working in m. R. I. You're dealing
with all of this massive information where you actually have
an entire set of code that only a very explicit
group of people in the world are actually allowed to
work with and see. But then there are,
like hundreds of people that are using that data or
that code on a regular basis. And so it's
really frustrating when you're trying to train yourself on how
to use this code. And there's a very ancient
method of doing this. But then there are maybe
100 or 200 other people in the world that have
already done this, and you can't communicate with any
of them because of licensure and a bunch of other
things, and so that puts you in a complicated
position because, like, being open would be the
best possible thing. But they these big companies won't
allow that. Essentially, um and so having open
code is would be really nice. Um, I'm
curious about the the the issues around that if if
researchers got credit for more and more of these of
the research materials and output, how does the academy
respond to that? Because it's prepared to actually give
credit for that. And that's a big issue in
this area is the credit that you get for your
for being open and talked about it. You there
, that's you're more enlightened at that university. A
lot of American universities aren't that way. And how
do we get to that point where there's, you
know, when we when we interview job candidates we
give credit for or favorite we give them, You
know, uh, a point up for having use
open research. So what do you think about that
? I think it's it's happening. Uh, one
of the things that set up open science is doing
is partnered with dozens of journals. Um, so
the issue batch digital badges to researchers who who,
uh, following open science practices. There's a batch
for pre registration, a batch open data batch open
, for example. And those are embedded in the
article itself. So within the discipline, it's actually
a real sign at all. I feel like this
is a lot more confident that this is not a
product of, um, or or something like that
. So I think the, uh the number of
journals and professional societies that have signed on there not
just the badges but what they're calling the, uh
, the transparency and open this guideline. Um uh
, and it's just sort. So I feel like
this is something that that it is catching on very
much. I think it is becoming a currency.
Uh, what you described about, um, as
soon as you upload a piece, whether it's your
questionnaire that you've developed or whether it's the data itself
, uh, separate from, uh, pre print
, for example, each of these has separate is
very excitable. And so I think it's in part
the question of, um, using the existing levels
. If you want to run with citation counts,
you certainly can. Um, so I think it
is catching on, Um, even over here.
And I think it's a cultural yet that has to
happen because, um, we haven't mentioned the word
, but, um, I guess And, um
and but it's faculty who put together the tea and
see who can change the guidelines or the hiring.
And I think is more of, you know,
the future pack lt um, and more of the
existing faculty who who are becoming more familiar with and
comfortable with and understand all of the open needs.
That's not putting junk out there for anybody to consume
. But as we understand that the academy will have
to change and it is changing. Actually, we
can. I think, how many of you have
published an open access? How will you know?
Well, there's there's I meant when I talked about
open access a little earlier, I meant to talk
about the two ways that it's achieved. The one
is open access journals. There's a lot of stem
fields in particular. They're open access journals. Sometimes
they have fees associated with publishing an article in them
, which is a problem if you don't have a
grant. Um, but the other way is archiving
your work, and this is the one that a
lot of faculty and other researchers, um, often
don't seem to be aware of. Um, it's
actually in the fine print of the contract that you
signed. Get an article, accepted. Um,
And it tells you, uh, what you can
share and in what form. And so, um
, about three quarters of journals now allow you to
share your accepted manuscripts online. Um, under certain
conditions, they'll say in that institution repository. So
we have one here called Works. Um, they
may put embargo on it six months or 12 months
, but you can share. And so, um
, for journals that are paywall, once you publish
that article five or 10 years from now, it's
still gonna be behind payroll within 12 months or six
months. Whatever, you can at least make your
accepted manuscript open under the journals own rules. So
definitely look at that fine print and see what you
can make available and put in a either Virginia Tech's
repository check works or repository in your discipline. Lots
of disciplinary repositories now, and people in your field
will see your work, and you get noticed for
, and if you don't know whether or not you're
publications access or not, or whether or not you
dot com has the name of the journal, and
it'll tell you exactly when you're allowed to publish it
, whether you're allowed to publish or the final PdF
version. So there are resources out there if you
just Google it. I mean, it's such an
unusual I don't even remember what it stands for.
But if you Google it, it'll be like the
first result. And it's an aggregator site that aggregates
journal policy. And so you can put in a
journal title, and it'll tell you what the journal
permits. Also, just a quick things one is
Please remember there's no quicker way to be a widely
cited and read all the publishing open access, especially
if you think about where you once you have,
you want to have impact, not just among the
privilege, like you and I have access to the
library database subscriptions, but those it's throughout the developing
world and beyond. So if at the minimum,
your archiving a pre print legally in an open depository
, um, you have to do this a good
way to check a small blood for a nice project
, Uh, Google thing called impact story, and
that'll give you your sort of open access school.
Get that up to 100%. It is not just
good for the world is in your best interest to
be widely read impact impact story. What it is
essentially, if you can put in all of your
favors in there and if you determine for you whether
or not it is really available or not, whatever
is not really available on your personal research page,
everybody should have research. And if you determine how
not just how many times you get excited but how
people interact with your work is work downloaded your work
? Because at the end of the day, just
because your site it doesn't necessarily mean that your work
, you know, engagement with research. In many
ways, the point was one that I was gonna
take up in response to care and talking about promotion
and tenure policies I'm having been involved in, um
, university governments and various levels, um, become
very cynical about, um the evolution of of these
policies are extra, extremely slow to change. And
so I'm beginning to wonder if the culture of these
disciplines were gonna change on their own for a couple
of reasons. And the first one is what redeems
just mentioned, which is that there actually is an
advantage to having your work openly available. And this
has been documented by, um, over 70 studies
showing this majority of those studies show that there's a
citation advantage for open access works. And so this
kind of makes, um sense intuitively that people can
get your work, more people can read it,
more people can download it, and then more people
end up fighting it. The other one is the
the issue that we've been talking about, which is
research integrity. So we follow. Your materials are
out there. My work is out there. You
can get to it. Um, the data is
there, the methods are there. Um, when
you're applying for a job, everyone can see all
this That's out there. So your your work is
resilient. It's it's strong. No one has to
wonder. Well, if it's gonna be in retraction
, watch a year from now or something like that
, You know? So, um, research integrity
is is a really big deal now, still having
that available. So So, their inherent reasons for
open this. Um, aside from, um,
the pace of promotion policies just quickly, sir,
I definitely want to get to your question. I've
been showing a little love to the University of British
Columbia, and I'm gonna show a little more love
now, um, two years ago, this is
not about open access. Now, this is about
open educational resources, but this is changing. Um
, they modified the promotion policy to recognize the creation
and adaptation of open educational resources for promotion under the
educational Leadership Street. And I will say that was
actually pioneered or pushed by the student association. Uh
, which is really good. Um, are we
promoting open access to applications in the track guidelines here
, and if not, why not the word promote
? I'm not, uh, like, incentivize.
Um, I'm not sure. I don't think we
promote, and I don't think we incentivize, but
we do accept and acknowledged. I think one of
the problems that, uh, many of the guidelines
are very disciplined, disciplinary, and so we're looking
at department level on evaluation factors. Um, one
of the efforts that I was involved in on the
commission faculty affairs was, uh, changing the guidelines
to, um, focus less on the venue or
the journal that you published in and look at more
metrics related to the article itself. So article level
metrics, how many citations to this particular article get
? Um, what were the out metrics about it
? Was there news story about it, that sort
of thing, as opposed to Well, this was
published in the Journal of X. And then everyone
in their discipline has a preconception about whether that's a
good journal bedroom somewhere in the middle, and they
just judge it on that. So, um,
I think that's a problem, and that's gradually shifting
. It's mattering less, I think, uh,
what journal Researches published in, um So we did
add some language about art level metrics to the guidelines
, but yeah, that's just a little bit It
didn't feel very far. There are some, uh
, budget, because if you wanna open so there
are some diversity, but maybe enough. But some
, um, will have to pay for Prince pretty
high price for pay for open access and open.
So I'd like to kind of address what month you
said in terms of incentive perhaps we could look at
it that way. Um, for those of you
that are thinking about or have an article that's ready
to be published or ready to be submitted for publication
, the university has an open access avention fund,
and we will pay up to$1500 per article if
you will publish it in an open access journal that
has article processing charges. So, sure for Romeo
is a good place to look for a way to
publish. There's also a directory of open access journals
that you can look up your topic and and see
if there's, uh, an open access journal that
might work. But everybody in the university is eligible
. All students, undergraduates, graduates, faculty staff
, and it's will fund up to$1500 an article
and up to$3000 in a year. So if
your article, if your article doesn't cost$1500 to
publish, maybe it's only 900. You still have
quite a bit of money left, so you can
publish several articles. And there is, um,
a quick, um, kind of request form that
you can fill out online to let and I'm the
one that manages the funds so I can answer any
questions you might have about it. But, um
, it's definitely, I would say, an incentive
to publish because you won't have to pay any article
processing charges. Perhaps. Do you have questions?
Um, so I was I wanted to know.
Um, obviously, I think open access is really
important. Um, and we're talking about kind of
the ethos and getting the more people involved in publishing
their own work in an open access format. The
better it is for all of those people that do
choose to do that. Um, I was wondering
, for those of you that are in the classroom
, Um, right now, what are the things
that you do to promote that culture? What do
you think the things that we can do is future
educators to help promote that in our own classrooms.
Let me answer that. It's easy because we have
these sessions, but that's really I It's, um
, kind of a silly example, But it's not
I mean, because open access open. Oh,
we are. We haven't talked to my, um
but we talk about it in these kind of classes
, and so then it's actually a short answer.
Better, Uh, we do teach a online course
. Grad school data management skills 50 24. Currently
, it's 20 students in it, and we talked
a lot about data sharing open data issues surrounding open
data. Currently, it's an online course. Hopefully
involve. We'll do it in person again. I
like the interaction like this and correspondence and email,
but certainly something we talked a lot about. You
know, what I wanna say is actually just do
different things. Um, I think, um I
guess things to promote this is one of the weirdness
. Um, thank you for having that helps a
lot into it. Um, the other important thing
is getting it into the work. And that's one
of the challenges because, you know, we are
all busy. We all respond to deadlines and And
if we don't have a a workflow that taking to
, you know, take the open access into it
, it's not gonna happen. And I wonder if
there is anything that the university can do. You
know, I keep thinking about systems like that we
use for proposal that we do for the package activity
. There's so many automation that will bring. I
wonder if there is a way that people in conferences
, I think you can probably lean on the open
science stream work because they do have a stage based
protocol and you can participate in as many of those
stages as you want. But I think what's so
sort of like you as well in the classroom,
I would always at the undergraduate level, you know
, introduced the notion of open science practices and talk
about it early. I think in graduate school students
is That's the first thing about open access open science
way too late. I think you have the future
profits. I want my students to understand at the
undergraduate level what they encountering when they encounter journal articles
in the process that went behind it. But that's
kind of like why I like using our for statistics
and not PSS because there's no click click drop down
menu. They know what's going on because they have
to tell it what you, um But I will
say whether you know, I feel like we're dancing
around it still, because there are purely selfish reasons
to publish open access beside it more and that are
pro social reasons to publish open access. Right,
you'll research will be accessible. But I feel like
we're still dancing around the elephant in the room,
which is that we are living in the Matrix.
We are through the looking glass. If you had
to explain what contemporary scholarship looked like, I had
no idea they would think you are insane. Publicly
funded research. You fall your sweat into that,
okay? And then we give intellectual property to private
corporations, who then are not happy enough with that
. Then we add to that our voluntary with you
Then we add to that are voluntary additional work.
And then, if that's not enough, our university
has to pay the same subscribe to the same journal
so that anyone else at my station can subscribe to
it and read the work publicly funded. Work these
up. So can we just agree? Completely absurd
. So at some point, beyond the selfish reasons
in the pro social reasons, I think that a
wonderful reasons just in terms of logic, this is
quite ridiculous. At the right, this crop of
humanity perpetuates degree fraud, humanity. So I think
we need to do something about that. Sorry,
so I like to listen to publishers. Actually,
Teacher mentioned earlier publishers are trying to figure out how
to work in the educational resource base. So they
continue to make make a profit. They're gonna start
trying to start doing the same thing with data.
So currently they work flows right now or are generally
working with researchers working by themselves when there's some new
new new tools to help people do open things.
But maybe not so disciplinary, specific General Tool but
research to the publishing enterprise it's gonna have a harder
time making money on contents, getting getting free content
from researchers because we're just willing to give it to
them. And so they're finding other ways to get
in the workflow, and they're working in the research
research. Workflow tools find ways to to, uh
, to get researchers to use tools and their faces
they have for managing data, managing, managing the
work flows, Uh, which is something? You
know what? I'm interested in having to open data
and open workflows done. I'm concerned about this,
and, uh, there might be some things we
can work together partner in, but, uh,
it's, uh it's an interesting move by, um
, so some publishes are like moving towards data.
But I know that a lot of the publicly funded
grants, grants and see grants are now requiring that
your data public, um, so like when you're
writing proposals, you have to have a plan for
making your data accessible to the public. Whether that's
going to be able to be understood by anyone is
because they can't read your paper is another question,
but it's a good move. This is one of
those one of the things I help this research is
right Data plans. If you would like help with
one of those proposals project. That's one of the
things I do very, very happy to help you
and figure out what what might be able to be
shared. And generally, I would tell you not
everything, especially if you're doing really, really,
uh, data intensive, computational intensive work sharing terabytes
of data for the Internet is hard, and probably
nobody wants to try and download it through the Comcast
connection anyway. So probably so. We have to
carefully about what we're sharing and who we're sharing it
for. You know, uh, if we're doing
some sort of data, your qualitative research that this
involving, uh, a population of some sorts.
Maybe we wanna make our data understandable and accessible to
those particular people because it benefits them. It could
benefit them where they are. Maybe we want to
make a research. Research we're doing is is the
rest of Derek. And maybe there's only 50 people
in the world. We're gonna understand it. Well
, let's document our data's of that. Those people
can understand it without asking me a bunch of questions
, but that's always an important question. I but
I'm helping people think about data sharing. That's one
of the first things I say to myself. You're
not sharing. It brought everybody. Who are you
sharing it for? Who's your audience on the Internet
? Because that just helps no one. You need
to be precise. You need to be exact about
what you're sharing, and you need to explain what
you do in order to get the data. So
taking that would be very useful. Said something that
your fields, because I heard that so many times
, and we all it makes it makes um,
it's absurd what is happening. But it is also
absurd what is not happening. Like, why aren't
the universities having, you know, just journals and
publishing? You know, universities have all the facts
who are actually doing the reviews and editing and everything
else. So if we take that from the publishers
, you know, I think we do a better
job. The things that I wanted to add to
this was the, um it's come up the the
question of the impact factor. Um, and that
, to me, is one of the things that
this is controlled by the public by the big commercial
publishers. And you talked to a department head at
this university who's in a in the stem field about
going open access. All their caring about is what's
the impact factor of that journal? And until that
changes, the system is not going to change.
And it's It's I hear all the time here,
and you probably can pull in Germany. Good.
Good. Um, so I was just curious how
, uh, things like data use and data transfer
agreements, um can impact how you can make things
open. Access. Um, so from what I
understand, if I, um, I'm in the
field, if I collect the data set here as
a graduate student at Virginia Tech. Then in some
way, in most cases, that data, at
least partially, belongs to Virginia Tech. Um,
or at the very least, is associated with my
advisor. So I can't necessarily decide to go and
take it somewhere else or to make it open access
. So if you're collecting data at a university,
um, where you would normally need to do something
like a data user data transfer agreement to move that
data around. How do you go about making that
open access? And how can you go about figuring
out what rights you have on that side? As
a grad student? If you did wanna go the
open access through, I can I can try to
try to start. Um, this is what you're
correcting. That data that's produced a Virginia Tech Resources
is owned by First Rights are owned by Virginia Tech
. The federal government, if they fund research,
also own some rights to the data as well.
Uh, that's a general start. Concerns about data
transfers and data use agreements. I you know,
technically speaking, this is true. You go,
you go get another position at another institution and you
take your data there. Uh, without permission for
Virginia check. That's not really legal. Not prop
. Alright, I think I'm practically speaking. If
the data is not proprietary, and then I make
somebody a whole bunch of money or you're also having
some data security issues like, uh, your breach
of confidentiality moving data around that you said it's gonna
be It's your institution because of your decision review board
. Nobody's really watching this whole idea. Honestly,
now there's now there's money involved and there's labs involved
. There actually was a big lawsuit. It,
uh, Stanford and UC Davis. I think Professor
moved. They're trying to move their lab from one
of the institutions to the other. And if we're
talking about$100 billion of research and the institution that
was being left was not happy and they see,
I think they won in the end, the data
has retains at the institution was generated out. Um
, in practice, you know, if you're doing
research, where where money is not really involved,
nobody's gonna make a lot of money off other things
. It's more for academic research purposes. You have
to request permission. Is there a formal process.
You know, I don't actually know the instincts.
I don't think I don't think it's. I think
it really depends on where the data is collected.
If you're working in someone's lab that was funded by
a grant, then maybe you don't own the data
. But if you are have a research project and
you collect data, then it is your data,
just like it is your article that you write about
it. I don't think it's a flat out.
The university owns every bit of data that's collected here
. I think it's on where the funding comes from
. There is a policy 13 or one where the
University of Search right for the data if it's generated
under under, um, the offices and resources of
the institution of the power of the stage right,
if you work, if you work in a lab
, work in someone's lab and it's part of a
collaborative project that that students being different students are how
many are working on funding of some sort of Virginia
under an assistantship? How many or not probably go
the other way around who's not working under Okay,
so if you're working by yourselves, is your students
, you've actually owned the rights, and most undergrads
are in the situation doing undergrad research. And if
you're working on the grant that's different. That's there's
a distinction, and I think these individuals are just
so it's only I believe yes, it could be
, and you have to look at, too,
whether the data is actually, it's owned by someone
. But it's not copyrighted, right? So then
there's another policy that addresses copyright. And you do
own the copyright to the things that you produce,
like your thesis or dissertation, like the articles you
write, even if it's based on the research that
you do in somebody else's funded lab. And that's
policy 13,000. You want to look that one up
? Do you think that they're usually greater clarity around
this, that it's one of those things that I
think at universities? It's It's convenient to not be
very clear about it. There's a there's a fun
reason for this is because we're really data data or
not. Copy writeable There are the data or facts
, even if you years and years to get data
data are not copyrighted. Now there are people.
Do a I proprietor used to this data, and
I'm not gonna give it to you because it's businesses
straight tickets or not, But data themselves are not
. Copyright law doesn't really apply, so it makes
the fun legal legal questions about data. It makes
it really interesting in this country, they're more there's
more data, um, data rights and without around
data and Europe and Britain not so much here.
It's really So what I'm hearing is that there are
some minor nuances that we need to be aware of
. Um, when I'm working with our data and
taking it elsewhere, Um, so this is a
two part question. Um, in these instances,
when they're the small differences that matter a lot,
um where, like what resources are available to us
to get the bottom line answers that we need moving
forward to make sure that we're getting the rest that
we have, but also protecting our work and ourselves
. Um And then the second part question is connecting
this back to open access and open pedal through those
same rules still apply, Or is it a total
different ball game? I'll think the data part.
Now let people speak to the other price, uh
, for data regarding legality issues. I'm certainly happy
to do the 1st 1st stop. Uh, you
know, if I don't know the answers to things
I'm I'm always, you know, questions. Like
just asking. So, what do I have to
find a material transfer agreement? State my data?
Well, I could find out. I certainly can
find out. Talk to legal folks, find out
answers. Um, the security office. They certainly
care a lot about, uh, legality regarding surrounding
data and resources. And then we always have legal
counsel. We can always rely on. They might
not be super fast and get back, but,
uh, but those are Those are options regarding data
now, going talking about copyright with respect to education
, resources and qualifications. There are different manner.
A different, uh, animals a little bit to
that and say that if you produce a like an
open textbook or if you write a monograph, it's
yours so you can publish it. You can sign
a contract. Um, you can sign over copyright
. You can keep copyright, but it's not the
universities because we have barely touched on organ educational researches
, textbooks, yes, power points that you're doing
class P A s. If you're building your own
electricians scratch and you're okay sharing them. So the
Creative Commons license on the Internet, YouTube, videos
, activities that you care for. These are all
, I guess. I think that you can put
a license on them share. It's not just about
building, because I'm pretty sure that only a handful
in the room probably ready. Textbook one of them
so I can put my own my own power points
that I teach on the Internet and be able to
share somebody, um, culture go to my blog
. But other than that, there are many ways
that we can share the way that we teach the
information that we teach without having to write a book
. Before we moved to that question, I want
to talk about him, talk about something that he's
thanks to put me on the spot. Um,
so, yeah, I mean, basically, uh
, based off of, uh, what my role
was saying, Um, I'm currently working on a
project to create a repository that, um, instructors
here or elsewhere can post quickly content that they're creating
. Um, so I've been, uh, you
know, in talks with books at the library,
and it's still very early stages now. So there's
, you know, we have kind of a a
distant plan, but, um, the plan is
to have some centralized place to share the the materials
that you're waiting for class so that others can find
it and reuse and and and remix and all those
other good things is doing this in his role as
a, um um, doing this in conjunction with
the the role has fellow of the academy for GTA
excellent and and so that I appreciate being on the
spot because I think it's important that, uh,
everybody's aware of what is coming, and it can't
be done just by the Academy of the Grad school
. It's gotta be in conjunction with the library as
well. So talking about the impact factor of open
access. So I've seen cases that, uh,
research is, uh, they they are they avoid
open access dinners because of impact factor. But I
have also seen cases that the impact factor of is
fairly one. But there's still a wide open access
journals. Uh, and their argument is, uh
, one published in open access. Journals are associated
with, uh, do not get the same level
of attention or in terms of quality, uh,
like they associated and they associated with, uh,
lesser quality for some reason. And I never understood
that argument. So if you can make, uh
, wife that kind of thinking Well, there there
are, um there is a problem with open access
journals, especially with the model that charges on an
article basis. Um, one of the problems is
that people have formed their own journals, um,
in their own apartment and said, Hey, I
just started the journal events and$500 and no pre
appeared You happen. So some people have called these
predatory journals. So there are these deceptive journals out
there. If you're interested in open access journal in
your field, do a little background research on it
. Look for the editorial board. Um, but
for that kind of thing, we get this kind
of thing with our open access to avention find all
the time so you can come to us and ask
us. Hey, what about this journal? What
do you think? The directory of open access journals
j dot org has become increasingly strict about the journals
that accepts into this directory, So if it's in
a J, I would feel confident that it's a
legitimate journal. The issue of impact factor, I
think, is in part due to the fact that
so many open access journals or newer um, many
of them are less interior. 10 years old,
Um, and the traditional journals would have been around
for 30 or 40 years in a particular discipline.
Just have a lot of tradition around. And just
like they're talking about tradition and academia, disliked practices
and everything else changes is really slow. And so
if the journals been around and it's a society journal
in particular, then people are gonna continue publishing in
that. One of the points that I make when
I'm talking about open access is that you don't have
to choose between recesion open access because of archiving.
So even in prestigious journals will often have policies where
you can archive your accepted manage group in a repository
somewhere. So, um, if that's an issue
, uh, with your, um, advisor UPI
. Something like that says No, we have to
publish in this procedure's journal. Look at their archiving
policies. You can have it both ways you can
publish the procedures journal and have your work open access
. I think another problem with the, um with
with open access journals has been, um, sort
of related to the point about the predatory directly related
that if you are like me, you get you
go through your junk mail and you get requests from
journals all over the world saying published with us,
we have$1000 at sea and everybody gets those and
then that becomes associated with open access. And and
I talk to people, actually, members all the
time and they say, Well, open access.
They're they're not fear reviewed, are they? It's
that confusion that we're still sort of getting to understand
for everyone to understand exactly what open access needs.
That is not an issue of quality. Um,
open access, Good open access journals are period.
You just like every other journals. But there is
that problem that it is attracted to bad actors.
Um, and that's yeah. No, I just
had a couple of things. I think it's a
It's a funny little problem. In a sense,
it's almost as though imagine if you first heard about
online, uh, modality for teaching and learning and
higher. If you first learned about that through the
University of Feelings. Uh, you might think that
all kinds of online teaching and learning our garbage,
for example, um so that's certainly a bit of
a problem. What what I see. And I'm
glad that there's a younger group over here is in
psychology as well. It is, um, assistant
and in many cases, associate fact professors who are
sort of leading the charge. Uh, and the
problem is, it's early career faculty who have most
on the line, who are not the ones who
put together promotion and tenure guidelines who are on those
committees. So I think what's really necessary for the
kind of culture change we're looking for is leadership from
post fact. Um, and so that's what those
are. The conversations and hoping will happen more and
more. Um, but there are cases of the
international journal of well being would be one in one
of the pocket I work in, uh, it's
sexually high quality because the editorial board of this fully
open access journal that is zero article processing fees,
um is full of, uh, tenured faculty from
, uh, very renowned. Uh, and so
that kind of leadership is necessary, I think,
to create the kind of impression of quality Um,
that is needed. So it's not just the nice
words. And yes, let's do that and uncomfortable
with you putting your pre print my graduate student.
But no, um, if you're gonna volunteer your
pure label volunteering for an open access journal is what
I would say. The Post, Any faculty and
I've heard the opposite in some fields. And they
vary by this one that the faculty have more freedom
to experiment and that often they're the ones experimenting with
open access first. And the folks on the tenure
track don't wanna from anything that's traditionally been done and
at this point so that, you know, don't
feel like they have the freedom to experiment. Full
professors still have some energy, but there certainly are
. Yeah, there certainly are, uh, increasing
number of prestigious open access journals. I'm thinking of
like claws, biology, which is probably the top
field. It's not one of the top journals,
and I think that's increasing as, um, open
access advances even more and more open access journals that
are also procedures Yes. Um, just this is
a clarification question on archiving. So does this,
um, imply that you've already published in, um
, you know, in a journal. And then
once once it's been published, then you have a
copy of it. Also in an open access,
um, general as well. That's right. Most
of the most about 75% of journals will have some
fine print in that contract, specifying you can share
where you can share it and when you can share
. So they'll say, the accepted manuscript online,
not the final pretty PdF. They'll say only on
an institutional repository, or only on your personal website
. And they'll often have embargoes. They're not all
of them. Someone allow immediate share, but they
may say six months. 12. Wait six months
or wait 12 months to post it in a repository
. And the other part of this, uh,
that I'm into mentioned earlier and receive this mention of
his pre prints, which are really changing. Uh
, journalists. They're forcing journals hands in a lot
of ways. Um, there's a copy out here
that if you have target journals, which you want
to publish in, you need to know their prepayment
policy. But for journals that do permit pre prints
, you can have it out there open access under
your own license. Um, before you even submit
it to a journal or even during submission, you
can submit it to a journal and have it as
a pre print at the same time. So this
is really taken off from the biological sciences with,
uh, uh, archive called byo archive. Um
, there's really just taken off in the last couple
of years where a lot of people are sharing preference
now, Um, and in part, this is
response to how long the process kicks can take a
year or more. Sometimes you gotta take care of
you. So you get the work out there early
as a time stamp on it. Everyone knows that
you did it. It's out there. You can
also get feedback from people that sometimes will improve the
paper. Um, so pre prints are really starting
to change journal policies. And, um, there
are even a few couple of journals in genetics that
are, um, encouraging their editors to go through
different repositories and send invitations to authors. So this
is really flipping the script when journals are shopping for
papers on repositories instead of use sending a paper to
the journal, then that's a positive change right there
. That's still just two or three journals. But
maybe that will increase all the time. So I'm
curious, um, given just to get a pole
of of you in the room, If you were
been a published an article and you had the opportunity
to go with an open access journal and a whole
, uh, subscription journal, um, equal quality
, what would with who would with anybody not go
with an open access to? So is is that
, like, because you think it's a good thing
I'm really curious as the you know, as they
say, science progresses. One funeral at the time
, You know that. Yeah. Um, it's
it is, um it's the next generation that is
going to make the difference. I think, Um
, any last comments if you wanna make her How
do I go back to the question about, um
uh, well, how do how to grad students
get the information. Um, and yes, you've
got some resources up here, but as graduating,
how can, um uh, should we have some
things on our website. Should we have, uh
, a huge Can we develop some issues? Are
they already there? We have some things relative to
, um and manuscript, but where? So I
have my culture. Where do I send these folks
to get the answers to the questions that we've had
here. And what do I need to do?
More available today? We have a number of guides
that we put together here in the libraries. So
I have one about open access. Has different tabs
about having an open access journals and different aspects of
open access. So and then, if you just
put in the term on the library website, you
should be able to retrieve that died. And then
I can tell you about the various, um,
data data together. Similar. Similar thing we have
, uh, we have a web page, data
management and collaboration services on the library website and links
for several guys to talk about Research management, data
management planning, uh, data sharing considerations for data
sharing. Uh, we have yeah, guys for
guys towards a couple of agencies links out of the
resources that are available. Uh uh. You mentioned
the spark as smart has some wonderful, uh,
resources online about agency policies, policies regarding publications and
data, uh, policies that we blink to as
well. So, um, yeah, we could
probably just provide a good number of links where we
already have the stuff existing online. Let me just
put everybody on the spot here. Um, would
you have gone to the library to get the answers
? And that's part of the reason I want to
bring it up. Okay, so now I need
to figure out. So I think that's that's That's
a statement because there are a lot of things that
are spoken about grad students as general knowledge. Everybody
, you know, they're sharing knowledge to help you
through the process. Am I right? This is
not knowledge that shared. Um, I I know
of it, you know, But I've not known
of it as being in this context like this is
something I should be, um, that I should
be doing I should be working towards, and I
don't know how many people here. Maybe I'm just
traveling in some other circles, but we're talking about
we're graduate students who are taking this course, and
therefore we're being privileged to this knowledge. I don't
know that it's general knowledge. Am I? Okay
? Good. As you're preparing to, I do
want to have the link, even though you didn't
go to the library and you probably wouldn't go to
the grad school. I'm gonna We I want us
to do some of that. Um and I don't
We don't need to. It's just a link or
somehow so that Yeah, there can be that kind
of resources as well. I was just going to
add on what she said. And, uh,
if I wouldn't have attended this class, I wouldn't
have known about resources, Not just about open access
and things discuss here. But I guess at graduate
the first year of graduate schools, people should be
thought about this. I'm not sure included in something
like just informing them that this is present, uh
, and the class I'm not taking this data management
course, but, uh, something of this that
could be introduced at the Graduate could be something people
would look forward because not every time people will come
will be coming to graduate school or to get information
about, and they reach out to members to get
information about they might want to publish that will help
them to just have an idea that I think that's
the question I have. Maybe we don't have time
to discuss right now. Maybe you guys, how
do you get information about resources that are available to
help you around the institution and that, I mean
, probably one of your advisers who knows something about
this going on, but not everything. Because,
uh, you know, data management services and libraries
, this is five years. It's been around very
new. So people have people, libraries place the
books, So getting the word out about new services
are very difficult. So where do you learn information
? Where do you learn that much? This is
very information that people get, um, people pain
in order to graduate happens informal connection into your department
. If you're not having conversations with the faculty in
your department, if you're not in some way,
shape and form having any connection with your department,
you are not going to graduate. And if you
are, it's gonna take you forever. So I'll
make this happen to this informal sources of information that
your department asked about act about publishing in general How
does this because you've heard one answer here It depends
. So happen to all of the different little short
. Go to the big college of Engineering if that's
where you're at, ask questions there or the college
education or wherever. Maybe that's where the information for
you to graduate in your graduate education is going to
come from. Not necessarily from the library, not
necessarily from the Graduate. And you have to be
proactive about it. That's the other part. They're
not gonna give you this. And, you know
, like, here's your package without, you have
to go and find it for yourself because that's what
you're being trained for. It to be an independent
. So sorry, So, so true are all
very, very independent followers I've met. A lot
of people had a chance to talk to so many
in this class. If you don't have a question
, you don't ask it. So, um,
you're there needs to be away for that information,
that is, that is key to us to be
readily available, and we do in my department orientation
every year, and they asked us to come back
, even though you know this is our 2nd 3rd
year that information is not there, and we're asking
all sorts of questions. I think it's time to
do a new start and make sure that we all
have this good information and that we all and and
I've learned so many things from my peers here.
They're willing to share, but they share what they
know. Can I shoot three quick challenges to everyone
in the group, so building on on your work
as well? So if you learn some stuff stuff
that you would know, am I feeling you've done
a bit? Yes, the question from like three
questions ago. So the question was like, Where
are we getting these resources? Do we know about
open access? And I'm in the college culture and
we have one of the coolest librarians I have ever
met, And so I like. I didn't
know a lot of this stuff. And so if
I have a question, I just email her like
, Where do I find this? And so I
think that we should we invite our life subject librarian
in for our, uh, really meetings, and
I think that would be a good approach. Are
you like talking to her. Yeah, so I'll
be happy to hear that. Unbelievable. Um,
but I will say this is B the informal network
. Right? So try to share what you've learned
this evening with at least one person. Each of
you who is not in this class was not in
the seminar. That's the first thing. Second thing
, the next conference you attend, the next meeting
you attend, that's in your discipline, and you
get the Q and ask the question. Are your
data open available in an open repository? Do you
make your code available? Are you research materials available
? Have you preregistered your hypotheses? Be that person
, right? That's what you need to do sometimes
. And when you do go on your job interviews
your your for for for academic position ask if they
support open science practices, whether there's a tradition in
the department of publishing open access, I mean,
sometimes what it takes for the people in the positions
to make these decisions is to get a sense that
the tide has turned, that they're getting it from
the people who they are trying to attract to their
department. Beyond the other forces that are pushing in
this direction, so try to do that. Alright
, It's eight o'clock. Perfect timing. Thank you
all. And please do know that in addition to
going to to the website, you can talk to
The librarians are always happy to talk to people directly
. So call us if you have any questions.
Goodbye. People online. Okay, Well, I
just making the library. Doesn't I have the classroom
? The library, So but yeah. Okay,
because those interesting deal for like, I don't like
to have people much rather have it. Thank you
. We have, um and that's what I wanted
. Okay. Great dot com. Okay.