okay, We're filming. And so just I'm going
to ask you questions, and we'll just have a
conversation. But I cut myself out of this.
So if I were to say, you know,
the view would like to know what the question.
Well, so if you can sort of restate it
a little bit, So if I say when did
you come here? When I came here? Oh
, okay. Yeah. And I just talked to
me and not the camera. Yeah, anywhere else
. Set. All right, so why don't we
start with that? Uh, when did you come
to? I came here in the 4th. 1965
. It's a long time. And when they retired
two years ago, I served the college for 44
years, and I enjoy every bit of it.
And so what? And so what? Tell me
what your role. What did you What did you
teach? What did you Yeah, It's an interesting
, very interesting question. I came here to teach
first year, second year, Then later on,
I move on to fourth year fifth year graduate.
You're an image. Finally, I think my final
few years we're teaching 30. I think that's the
year. Most important with with all the integration of
technology design. If you like the history involved in
that, it's very exciting. You only tell you
what I was doing. Absolutely. Actually, I
was working at the Skidmore Owings Merrill in Chicago after
I graduate from from school, architecture or environmental design
. Berkeley, California. Getting really tired of the
routine. You know that the Skidmore Owings Merrill is
very systematic, like a machine. You know,
they have detail. We have to follow all the
high, right? So, you know, all
kind of components are standardized more or less, I
think after three some years I got from the tires
. So I told my wife, I want to
experimented with in my life, So I apply for
schools. It's kind of late already, April or
May, and send out some of the letters for
the attack. Urbana, Illinois. Oklahoma Steel,
Stillwater, Oklahoma. Those responded favorably. It's amazing
. Getting a job at that time is not difficult
at all. You don't have to go through screaming
and interview and re interview this county. So I'm
glad that I chose to begin to take S o
. M. You know, it sounds like you
had a pretty pretty impressive background between Berkeley and so
on. Well, I think life is a lot
of chances, and I know that the people who
graduate in the West Coast let it go east in
the five verse. So I like Chicago and enjoy
quite a bit of learning. Quite a bit,
to be honest about architecture as a start. So
I came here. Charles Bircher was brand new.
The deed. He came here at the recommendation of
the former department head, then Curry. They were
friends at Harvard Grad School, Lisa. So he
came here and I think I was among the first
group of recruits. It is the most such a
small team. I would say that all together,
the faculty, maybe about 16 or no more than
20. There is no demarcation about department. It's
a program later on was divided to two divisions ones
architecture and environmental design. The other urban study,
that's the beginning to split to grow. So at
that point you were telling me that was it was
the Department of architecture? No, just a program
architecture. I remember. We ventilate at about three
months before I came, you heard about Olivia Ferrari
. Yeah. Now he was here. You've got
a young man who graduates of the year. I
think there was a Dick Miller. He was invited
to stay home for a year. Then we have
a Canadian born architect. Joseph brewed in. Probably
he just freshly graduated me and my team at that
time. Young Holt, you have you heard a
young home? Yeah, actually. Just graduated the
year. And he went somewhere else to maintain that
, probably for a year before he joined the new
Economy at the you know, the Pennsylvania while.
So the small team work very well, intimately,
harmoniously. That's when I think Ferrari made his impact
. He brought up the idea is to really you
could say revolution arised to prevent, in fact,
the change. The curriculum had such impact. A
controversy, I think. One or two longstanding faculty
members protests and the resign to that extent. That's
my understanding that I interviewed to Marshal Haunt. And
what he said was he he had to sort of
chase Virtue convinced him to come here. And what
he told him was, I want a top architecture
school. Do it. You have carte blanche.
You do what you need to do. And then
he brought in a Ferrari and you and, uh
and then just changed everything. It sounds like.
In fact, I think Marshall Hans was such a
supporter of architecture. We used to joke that whatever
child Russia wanted, you will get it from Marshall
, huh? It's really amazing at the time,
really. The growth and yeah, in many ways
, I think, you know, the old tradition
. We were a step child in a college engineering
, So I'm sure to celebrate the freedom to do
with what the faculty that he wants. Yeah,
I remember that. That's VP one again. And
the school as a whole is very small altogether,
I would say, I don't know precisely the number
. Maybe about 7000 students all together on campus,
and the cadets was We're much more disciplined. I
think they walk in straight line and turning or right
angle. And good morning, sir. You know
, uhh. As compared to nowadays, they just
like, of course, you know, the cadet
course really growing quite a bit. Yeah, that
was a shift. I interviewed GT Ward and he
talked to me about those early early days. Um
and he I guess I didn't realize this at one
point. You had to be in the quarter to
come to the school. This I'm not sure.
Not? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Of
course you don't. Language university, Three components.
You must have agriculture, military and engineering. So
Virginia Tech started the language in this way. I
remember also had two cadets in my design classes.
They did not last very long because by a certain
time of the evening, they had to go back
to the camp dormitory. Remember that when I was
a fresh, there were two cadets and, uh
, my freshman class, and it was just impossible
for them, and they couldn't They couldn't put in
the, uh you know, we slept here.
I think they were a little bit uneasy. And
they're always nervous and look at the watch all the
time. Anyway, things changed so much. I'm
glad. So tell me about the the I'm.
Really? I'm curious about sort of what the program
was, and then what? You all you know
through with Burchard and Ferrari? Your group? How
you how you changed the educational model? Yeah,
in fact, that the program, you know,
It's a little bit of modified version of the bar
house that will say more discipline, the multi dimension
. So I think the emphasis are now number one
. If I remember what the all the discussion to
simplify curriculum, reduce horses, you don't have enough
drawing class. You don't have a perspective of the
class. You don't have introduction to architecture class.
It's all kind of using a design studio as kind
of melting kind of ground. Yeah, hopefully,
to some extent, we were successful in design classes
. Some theories and history will be discussed. Rather
than rely on history courses, some structural basic structure
will be articulated. And so in this way,
I think you would really force fact would be very
multi, multi, multi talented. That's why the
Gropius wrote a letter to Charles Birch. You read
that and he said, You know, the program
is exciting, but you need a patent to carry
it out. So I think that that time is
another easy. But I think the students all get
excited. You can tell I think anybody from the
street to talk to any student without the country that
what to say. I think in most places very
enthusiastic, very excited and very engaging in the program
. Very proud, so that this is the kind
of cover. Very nice stuff. I only regretted
a bit, I think. And now the new
faculty. Younger one, I'm sure. Probably they
I have no idea how we started. So I
talked to Scott Pool, who just left here.
I think I'm going to mention to be Galloway.
Perhaps that the 1965 a I A journal? No
. Used to be a general. Now it's an
architect, but yeah, published purchase article about his
vision of the curriculum. I think that article should
be reread, in my view, the spirit of
that one. At the moment, I will say
that change is going back to a little bit about
more tradition. You have more courses, independent study
, special topics and this and that. I think
the number of courses are on the rise instead of
producing. Well, that's part of the hope of
doing the film is I think I think you're right
. I don't think there's a strong connection to the
history of the the program that there, I think
, would be beneficial for people to understand where this
came from in that pedagogical model because I think that
has to change over time, right? Sure can't
stay exactly the same. But I think that,
you know, all those people are gone. And
so it's harder. I know Virginia type likes to
hire people who graduated through the program, and I
think that's why to help sort of carry on that
tradition. But I agree. I think it's I
don't think your average student has any idea who Ferrari
was virtue was or what their idea of education for
an architect was. Of course, you know,
no history. We're not the, you know,
greatly increased their learning and so on. But I
believe that it's important that we still have a very
vibrant, very happy, I would say, very
happy kind of learning environment in design. Uh huh
. In fact, the black spirit went like him
. You know, I I love concert every year
. The whole year we had only four community community
concerts and they were all second rate of third rate
. And now I think every night at making my
choices were to go what to do Well, a
case in point. Yesterday I was so excited,
so happy that the music department invited James Galway,
the flutist on campus, to conduct a Mastic.
So what? The opportunity. So I spent 3.5
hours as a violinist myself. But Flute is talking
about music. I wish that the more architecture student
over there, you know, I think that everything
is all subtly related. Okay, so we are
quite different, despite the fact that still the back
backward location that the airport is 45 minutes away driving
to big cities like Washington. Still, four or
five hours so that did not stop has to interact
with outside the world. Well, let me ask
you that about music. I think that's an interesting
segue, because I think from everything I've heard I
mean, I got interested in film when I was
here as an architect. I mean, there was
sort of a an understanding that architecture was an architect
would benefit greatly from that understanding of multidisciplinary from studying
other disciplines. And I guess my question to you
is do you think the program has changed for the
students have changed and that they don't seek that or
they don't know to seek that I think it balls
. I always say that the growth change is it's
a natural process. But how much to what extends
to what way you change things? I believe that
we attract a very high quality high school graduate and
also from the graduate program. We do have an
outstanding I think reputation is one thing. For example
, where the solar house and also, if you
like it, you know, the ranking crazy about
the ranking. We were ranked very high several years
ago. I think I saw the postcard number one
. But the ranking makes me happy to indicate us
At least we are good school. I don't think
the top school is, uh is something you could
quantify, So I believe that we absorb good students
. But there was one point. Some studies show
that scholars scholastically good student good grades. Well,
another big necessarily make a good argument. So some
school will give you some extra additional testing. I
don't know. I went to school. I was
asked to draw five postures of my own hand,
and some other school would do something else. Uh
, in addition to looking at your transcript. So
I once tried to introduce the idea, too.
Chinese thinker. And he liked the idea. So
he put me in that position to interview students.
I really found that there's a lot of underdogs.
Great. And that's all great. The personality there
, you know, the talent, uh, charmed
or convinced me that they were They deserve a place
in the school. And regrettably, I did not
follow up. For example, in some case studies
the students not outstanding student, but the thriving architecture
. I head of the in mind, but I
think it's worth pursuing. Yeah, absolutely. I
think you know, I'm reading reading a lot about
Louis Sullivan right now. And Kindergarten chat. Yeah
, his autobiography. And, you know, I
don't think he graduated from me. He dropped out
of all of the schools, you know, he
wasn't interested in, you know, in that kind
of education, he wanted to get to work and
look what he did. Frank Lloyd Wright drop out
after two years. I think University Wisconsin, civil
unions. But of course, you could not say
we're dropping out with guaranteed success such as Steven Jobs
and a Microsoft at the guy. Yes. Yeah
, yeah, but I think it's a point.
I think it's an excellent point, and I think
I think Hans wrote. He was actually my thesis
advisor. I interviewed him. I thought he had
an excellent point. We really got into that a
lot. And he said that there's a focus on
practice now that they didn't used to be because there's
an expectation that you graduate, ready to jump right
into a firm and that didn't used to be there
. You could go to a firm knowing that you
would learn what you needed to learn, and then
we find that there's more of an expectation from the
firms that you have a certain level of knowledge.
So I think there's less of the spirit of sort
of exploration and more of the sort of, you
know, you need to be a good student.
You need to study. You need to to know
these specific things so that you can get a job
and I don't think that used to be as strong
as a motivation. You talk about how Hans Rock
Yeah, I bumped into him quite often. Actually
, it's kind of funny. People say why you
stay here for 44 years, giving up over to
this elsewhere. And, yeah, I could not
answer the question directly because depend on my feeling.
To be honest to myself. Try to to really
rule out the notion that I'm party or lazy.
I don't want to move here, so I really
believe that I made a very good decision for my
life. In fact, I think in the 1965
I came for interview. He, in fact,
that the magazine to get Yeah, the magazine,
Three Musketeers, I would say, Yeah, I
wrote in 19 82. Herschel Ellas, Mhm.
Charles Wehrli and the Harry Wis. It's interesting that
the were Lee went to the airport to pick me
up at that time in the airport. You know
, the terminal building was just like a farmhouse and
then rain like crazy. So and then the time
wasn't No. 81 climb the Christian Breault Hills that
took forever to get the campus. So then my
wife was with me. So I wish to whisper
to her This place is no more than three years
. Uh huh. So? So you never know
how to predict what things developed. So I really
missed those guys. They will tell the story about
the early part of Of VP of architecture. Three
distinguished person personality. They are all different. And
so I think this is the life you have the
wave move on, give the opportunity for the next
wave. Well, tell me about what do you
remember about? Yeah, I think they are very
interesting on the way back. Back to the airport
, Herschel Ella's drug B. You know, it's
a very interesting person. I asked him a question
and he will walk away. I thought, Well
, maybe he didn't want to answer my question.
And the a day later he would catch me that
he will give his answer. This is almost without
exception. He's very deliberate, very gentle and thoughtful
person, Actually, I think he's from Lincoln,
Nebraska area and very thoughtful architect. He was second
when the second place the Rome competition. The wrong
price. Yeah, and he actually saw Does it
work? He went to Mitt and the I think
he went to Paris to study. So before he
graduates coming And it was a little boy and he
believed that the we should pay attention to human beings
relationship to the environment. You know very much.
Kind of like a like a pearl Pearl Buck's good
earth, you know you live on, you depend
on you take care of the good Earth. So
with happy and friendship and relationship, Hank wish.
Actually, there's a group called The Vanquish Center of
History. Ah, I think they meet once a
month to talk about different subjects. He actually has
a very large estate at the skirt and again the
street. That area. It's a really beautiful landscape
. That's where I think all the cultural student usually
paid annual side visit over there. He was very
hospitable to his international student. In particular, he
had a technique, and he's a romantic category.
He talked about his bedroom next to a big windows
landscape, and how nice. Wake up in the
morning to see that the springtime in the summer and
fall and then winter. It's such a romantic in
the God really a study with Ms Vendor Roy.
The A. I T. Of course, as
expected, the more rational. His house is very
rectangular in shape. I think they exposed order necessary
skeleton, the structures, or so she's the three
guys really came. I came here to be involved
with these three guys. I think I was very
fortunate. Yeah. Wow. Very fortunate. That's
fine. I thought, you know, I should
not let the memory go. I proposed and I
was accepted by the editor. I want to record
their contribution two, but I don't like to cover
for this. Maybe we can Maybe we should ask
. Maybe Can reprint that on the website or something
for their Well, I haven't done anything. Anything
that Yeah. So were those three here before Berkshire
before birth. Yeah. Searching, inherited, inherited
these Three Musketeers. That sounds like a perfect fit
. Yeah, very, very kind of a everything
. The ego of the same. We so boring
. And it's amazing, Henry, which was my
first teaching partner, but we started off in patent
hole in around drill field. I remember that the
virtue had a tiny office smaller than this conference.
Really like that. A small business, you know
, from Pattern and the 1968. I think this
building will complete, and that's a year. I
did not have a chance to work in this building
because I sailed to England, took to do my
graduate studies, so I just Somebody told me this
the other day. Maybe you can tell me if
this is right. I heard that there wasn't enough
money when they finish the building to pour the floor
on the first floor. And it was just a
dirt floor. I heard that, but I could
not comfort because you confirmed that. Yeah. Okay
. Anyway, this is by Henry. Sorry about
the memory. Who just passed away last month?
The architect in virtue, of course, was the
honor. The child birch. The school is quite
good to me. And the let me keep the
office for five years in retirement. So this happened
to be a bad thing to do because I'm so
tardy and thinking that I had 55 years to do
it to clean out. So I try to do
a little bit in the to make room for Well
, it's such a wonderful thing to have that you
did stay and that you're a resource for architecture students
. And I think that's a tremendous And I understand
why you would stay. I think you grew the
town grew. Uh, and these Yeah, there
seems to be a link of the architecture school sort
of blossoming and the town blossoming and some of these
, you know, like you said, There's great
music and there's there is good Get good food.
Yeah, it's there's something kind of nice. I
think about black. Start being off the beaten track
, especially for a student into it forces you.
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I'm not a badge
full. And I had to be honest, you
know, during that the years spent here, Although
I don't like the word I teach. I work
with two. And in fact, I learned so
much from them. A liniment. So much from
the secretaries as well. Learn from my colleagues is
not a cliche, but I really believe that.
Yeah. Did this. You know, it's the
facts of life. No. No matter how smart
, how resourceful you are, you always pick up
things. Particular technology You have to say I realized
how much of a graduate student the secretary will tell
me what we'll teach me. What? Yeah,
Yeah. The school will be subject to another accreditation
next and what's coming up? You know, I
think one comment from maybe eight years ago was number
one. I think history, contact History of architecture
should be strengths. Mm, all sort of mentioned
about versatility. Diverse? Diversify, I think.
You know, of course, European tradition. It's
so marvelous. So I think, to be extended
to other parts of Africa. Asia. I think
it's important that we have a wonderful student body,
very diversified faculty from Bangladesh, in the Germany,
France and, of course, China. And what's
the Middle Eastern countries? I think pottery from Iran
. Structure Professor. Yeah, than Guatemala. You
know, I think she should be a little more
kind of diversifying. Yeah. Many years ago,
I started experimentally to introduce the traditional in the vernacular
architecture of China. I thought that the course for
56 years, it's a reasonably well received. He
graduated to pick up. Continue. I think I'm
encouraged. Nothing to do with my background. I
will say that China could. You cannot just say
China do not exist or architecture do not exist.
So I would say that that's it only regret that
Shanghai is beginning to look like Chicago. But countryside
is still marvelous for vernacular. You know, the
outskirt Mongolia and tea bags Also really wonderful architecture.
Great. Yeah, I would take that class.
Yeah, well, actually Tongji University in Shanghai.
One of the what are the best? That was
a I would say that even could be considered enmity
of China. So many talented professor, top notch
students and chunky. And our school got the assistant
school relationship. So I let her the group the
program for about five years, we had quite a
few exchanges. Faculty in the studio. Now,
landscape architecture is linking up with the air landscape Architects
, Right. I'm very pleased that things develop in
that way. What? You're coming in. But
you're retired 209 So just reason. Yeah. Okay
. Reach them. Yeah, and I still like
to sit in some lectures. In fact, I
was invited to give a electorate landscape architecture next week
and having it rather I aim to cut off the
the link entirely. I don't like that. So
tell me, when I was here the first time
, it was 95 Ferrari had passed away the year
before, so I missed Ferrari. But my what
I've heard is that, you know, his influence
was still very much, uh, present. I
was here. I've certainly heard about him. I
mean, there was every a lot of talk about
Ferrari, was he? It seems to me from
talking to people that Ferrari was the great personality that
really kind of tied tied a lot of this pedagogy
together. Would you say that? Oh, yes
, certainly. I think the Berkshire really rely on
Ferrari to push for the Revolution if you like.
They actually work together on the article with a journal
talk about 1965. We should have copies as a
librarian. Where are we? Did all the joints
in the birth shoot composed over the world stage?
I think it's worth looking at, although a little
bit of utopia to actualize kind of easy for me
. It's kind of fun person, and in fact
, we can allow so well. In the beginning
I was living in the apartment with my wife.
We didn't have a car, so he didn't live
too far away for the whole year. First year
he picked me up in the morning, and that
took me back in his beetle so that our relationship
so close and we socialize that we we no talk
. Talk about the curriculum discounting. Yeah, it's
really unfortunate the heated time that no life is cut
short. In fact, he's a very smart guy
. In many ways, I could say that.
I don't know. Should be optimistic. Yeah.
You know what? He used his. Yeah.
Foreign language. 2nd, 2nd, English. Second
language has a wonderful excuse. And all the committee
work. He said, I don't want to be
in there. I don't know English, you know
, maybe then, but actually he wants to a
point as assistant Dean, you know, we got
to do the division nurture and to assistant Dean.
He I think he hated administrative work. But of
course, to enjoy this height, or, you
know, I could understand he didn't like to write
a memorandum. I don't know how many times he
asked me. So this is the idea. Why
don't you write a And he was signed, so
he really knows how to uh huh. Share on
the use ability or whatever of others. Uh,
he didn't want to bother him side with the chores
, which he disliked, but and carefully now,
now as an n o. W or N O
. So I don't know something to this day.
I don't know what he was talking about. Yeah
. Second. Yeah, actually talked about so many
interesting things. Yes, the first time we went
to a Chinese restaurant. You know, in the
end, they gave you a fortune cookie. He
probably never had Chinese food before. He spotted the
whole fortune cookie, including the slip of paper.
And he always wore that both high. And he
never use the money, because Lucy, the wife
is treasure. I've never seen him and even touch
money or credit card. So very interesting. Kind
of. Okay, well, his philosophy, I
mean, everything I've heard it just it makes so
much sense. And it's like you said, you
know, learning from the students as well. It
sounds like he was very much a life about lifelong
learning. And and there's a forget the exact quote
that there's something that has come up several times that
he said about, You know, the students come
here with certain gifts, you know, the educators
responsibility to, you know, to to promote those
gifts. And not necessarily. You know, if
you're not the best perspective drawer, then maybe that's
not important. Maybe you do this really well,
This other thing, all right? It just sounds
like a wonderful environment to learn architecture. Yeah,
Go back to the same same comment again. I
still believe this school is a wonderful grant for discovery
and learning relearning and to uncover your hidden talents because
the school allows you to, rather than say,
do 1234 if they're already used to t speed.
Because a graduate master degree with from Berkeley at that
time, you know, Christopher, Crystal and Alexander
have heard that I thought he was forgotten, But
so I brought some idea from the design method movement
here had a class that design methodology. What?
So he said, Oh, Joe Wang is 1234
See, without accepting what is being but anyway,
I think, you know, to be systematic is
the one thing to be romantic and undisciplined in the
make a drawing up. So you have a few
drinks because that's another way to do it. Yeah
, and Christian browser. And it's romantic and discipline
. Yeah, Yeah. I like to school that
says everything. The wire stay for body appointed,
and still I'm still here. Okay. Are there
any other stories that your stories are wonderful? You
have any other stories you want? Actually, you
see that? My late wife and Uhh Mrs Bircher
. Connie High School. And she was a librarian
, My late wife teaching business department. So I
think a long day. Well, and through Mrs
Berkshire, I think she reveals such an interesting story
about virtue about her husband. She was very I
was both a woman. You know that during at
the time we were very close in discussing curricula or
whether our school batters, deeper sharing, is aware
Jack Davis is sitting. So I was chairman of
graduate program for about seven years in 17, So
I went to see him, and about a quarter
to four o'clock. He always looked at the watch
. That's what it was. Rather impolite, huh
? He said, I gotta go. I have
a an appointment. So that happens so often.
Mhm. Later on, I'll discover Discover why it's
not a medical appointment is not business support is that
he must watch soap. Mhm in particular, I
think. Mrs Burke, you mentioned that one Chuck
muffs So opera. All my Children, whatever.
I don't even know the name. But all my
Children, I lately that there's a series closed.
Yeah, well, so that kind of thing.
Nobody new? No. Yeah. Approaches fire,
neighbor. Fine person. Yeah, I think you
know the Bostonian years spent with the group years.
So And can you tell me about Lenny Curry?
Because he hasn't come up a whole lot. And
I understand you. Len Curry was the head of
department. I think he passed on to Persia.
Uh, actually, I don't know him too well
because he came late in my life. After his
retirement, he and the Virginia Curry they decided to
return to Blacksburg to establish your home again. So
and he's a very subtle, not really show off
kind of guy. Very humble guy. And actually
, I don't have any kind of in depth discussion
about architecture or or teaching either with him, except
that we have a common interest. And he actually
I don't know what he graduated from Harvard or not
, but he taught there with was I, M
. Pei and Berkshire. It so happened that my
oldest son graduate from Harvard, and that became our
common denominator. So every time he saw something about
the newspaper about my son, he went Give me
that tripping on a newspaper, send me by mail
. So I enjoyed the friendship. I could not
say I have a dialogue with him about tennis,
About education. Yeah, yeah, verify if I
gentlemen, but and it's a tradition that I don't
know. For me, it's almost miraculous. This
little school in the middle of nowhere has this incredible
wealth of knowledge. It's just a really special place
, I really believe so you know, many schools
, that group he has made Harvard famous. If
you like Mr Android I or Louis Kahn at the
University, Pennsylvania, Virginia Tech does not have a
star, but I had innovators such as a Ferrari
. But Ferrari you talk about, you know,
in the national convention. Maybe to this day they
don't know who is a Ferrari, but I think
we thrive on into the curriculum, the spirit and
the openness. Also, the dedication I have to
say, You know, here, besides teaching in
my year, early years, nothing, there's no
opportunity to really stop to practice. So all you
do day and night and weekend. That's amazing.
If you were here in the late sixties or seventies
, you bet every Saturday faculty members were here wrong
table or just just walk around and the in at
nine. This is, uh you can nothing imagine
this will happen, you know, in big cities
or even now. Yeah. I mean, that's
really special. That's really special. The dedication that
Yeah. So also collaboration, I hope. But
sure, you emphasize teamwork, and I like to
see more. Well, I think what's coming across
to me and all of these interviews is that that
period of time, yeah, after birth came and
Ferrari new And this whole group, this wasn't a
job for you guys. This was something much greater
than that. And I think if there's been a
shift, maybe that's the shift. Because I don't
think you could get, you know, this could
be off the record, but I don't think you
could get the faculty. Everyone sort of into their
own thing. And just the idea that you guys
would want to come together and discuss architecture and learn
from each other. That is just tremendous. And
I think that environment that was created because you guys
did that and had that desire, and that's what
really, I think drove the the program. How
could it not? Mm, Yeah. In fact
, you know the one contrast. I was at
Berkeley and Alexander was there. And But I soon
left. Uh, of course you know Charles Moore
. I knew the name. Yeah. What?
One of the godfathers of postmodern. And he was
my advisor. But not only once I went to
the appointment to see him and the secretary. Oh
, sorry. Dr. Moore is having a meeting
with a client in San Francisco. You know,
I think the business taking a precedent over teaching.
No, it's not only the criticism, but that's
that's a pattern in the urban schools. Sometimes,
you know, people having so much to do and
the life very intense schedule. Yeah, yeah,
that's an excellent point. It's sort of one of
the other. There's no opportunity to practice. And
so you're late on practice. Maybe that you're rich
on right. And Hans Hans said that as well
. And I thought that was a very nice point
that, you know, in his opinion, that
that's not the point of architecture. Education isn't practice
. It's education, and they're here to make architects
. And you know what you do with that and
how you learn to practices after here? It was
a nice way we used to have an extra ship
. You're talking about the internship External ship. You
could take a half year or one year off to
work in the office, which I think the school
approved of. But in the end, a good
report of what happened, What you learn? What
? Any comments? Uh, yeah. I think
Jack Davis, uh, organized that many years ago
and the fact that they would go to the different
offices to pay site visits to talk about the colleagues
. Yeah, principal And how our students are doing
so. So I think that require a lot of
manpower. Yeah. I remember that one time we
get about 20 or 30 students doing that. Well
, that would go to Chicago, Miami, San
Francisco, Philadelphia. Okay, of course, they
got paid for it. It's all some appearance.
He I think he used that as It's only money
. But you have to write a report. I'm
sure they will force them to think about what the
real world you learn from it. And then you
get to share that with your classmates. I think
that's very good. Yeah, I think they had
a big presentation, a complete report, and the
verbal presentation to the class. If another school,
anything. Any other question you wanna ask? Mhm
. I'm thrilled. I got more than enough.
Unless there's anything else you want to talk. Okay
, Tell me which few seconds You want to use
a problem? You will be involved in editing as
well. Yeah, this is a great skill,
a good film. Whatever. Document editing is very
important. That's it's funny that you say that because
in documentary filmmaking it's hard for me. I always
edited. I always edited my own films, and
it was hard for me to imagine somebody being a
director of a documentary and not being involved in the
editing because you make the film. And I mean
, this is just gathering, right, But,
uh, filmmaking is in the Yeah, I think
the question of sequence, What do you do?
You're chronologically with ample from the earliest. All you
want to do topical. I don't know. I
My initial thought was chronological because it seems like that
early portion of the program early years would make a
logical first act sort of bring you in. And
then this period of time that we mostly discussed a
virtual Ferrari, and that group is the largest.
So that makes the logical second act And then where
we are now and into the future kind of love
, Thankfully, because I'm I'm finishing up my thesis
. I'm graduating. Good. Okay, good.
Really? Yeah. Jack, do you have time
to do that? Well, we're gonna bring in
, um, a colleague of mine that I've worked
before. His an excellent editor is gonna gonna step
in, and you don't have much time to even
interview other people. Yeah, I'd like to get
it all done by the end of the year,
so Yeah, it's Yeah, well, it's there's
a lot but anyways, definitive. So it's only
a report up to this point, but it's I'm
really excited to do it because I think you know
, if this is something that students can see,
you know, and let them know this rich history
that they've stepped into, maybe it will drive them
to, because I think and this is probably true
forever. But, you know, 18 year olds
don't really care about what happened before that. Nothing
happened before that. Yeah. Yeah, I think
that's just really think they think they're playing. Yeah
, really. nice. A purposeful game. Yeah
, it's fun for me that, uh, to
see you. Just the difference in my attitude from
when I was doing this when I was 18 to
now. In some ways, I really miss my
attitude when I was 18 because it didn't matter.
Yeah, sure. Innocent and naive. Now,
I think you think twice before you do anything and
I was a sponge. I didn't know anything.
Now I think I know that to be a bad
thing. Well, you want to make a copy
of Absolutely Yeah. Uh, well, anyway,
thank you.