WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:02.419 A:middle L:90% go ahead and get started. So we're recording now 2 00:00:04.250 --> 00:00:09.400 A:middle L:90% I'm gonna ask you questions and I cut myself out 3 00:00:09.410 --> 00:00:12.099 A:middle L:90% . So if you can sort of restating something as 4 00:00:12.099 --> 00:00:14.460 A:middle L:90% I say, when did you come here? You 5 00:00:14.460 --> 00:00:17.399 A:middle L:90% say I came here, that kind of thing and 6 00:00:17.410 --> 00:00:20.769 A:middle L:90% just talk to me, not the camera and we're 7 00:00:20.780 --> 00:00:28.100 A:middle L:90% good. Actually, there's an out. Can I 8 00:00:28.109 --> 00:00:32.350 A:middle L:90% shift you sure this way? Do you want me 9 00:00:32.350 --> 00:00:37.539 A:middle L:90% to move to the chair? So you never see 10 00:00:37.539 --> 00:00:42.250 A:middle L:90% those things to the last one? Okay. Mhm 11 00:00:42.939 --> 00:00:50.039 A:middle L:90% . This chair. Yeah. Yeah. Actually let 12 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:52.359 A:middle L:90% me slide you back. We'll just kind of split 13 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:54.420 A:middle L:90% the difference between those two positions. Maybe I can 14 00:00:54.420 --> 00:00:56.439 A:middle L:90% block out the outlet. Exactly. That's what I'm 15 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:02.880 A:middle L:90% thinking. Okay. Okay. Can I get you 16 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:15.859 A:middle L:90% a little bit more that way? Okay. Excellent 17 00:01:15.340 --> 00:01:23.609 A:middle L:90% . Okay, great. So have you already done 18 00:01:23.609 --> 00:01:26.180 A:middle L:90% Jean Egger? Yes, I did, Jean and 19 00:01:26.180 --> 00:01:29.920 A:middle L:90% I talked for two. I'm sure that was amusing 20 00:01:29.930 --> 00:01:32.000 A:middle L:90% . It was great. Well, I actually was 21 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:36.069 A:middle L:90% here as a freshman in 95. Okay. And 22 00:01:36.069 --> 00:01:38.359 A:middle L:90% then I left and went to communion and okay. 23 00:01:38.739 --> 00:01:41.239 A:middle L:90% Went into film and left architecture. So I remember 24 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:44.670 A:middle L:90% jean from way back. So we, yeah, 25 00:01:44.670 --> 00:01:49.700 A:middle L:90% that's good that you want to close this door before 26 00:01:49.700 --> 00:01:53.750 A:middle L:90% you start because it could be saved. Somebody coming 27 00:01:53.750 --> 00:02:17.590 A:middle L:90% through there just making noise. Mm. I have 28 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:20.870 A:middle L:90% interviewed the marshall. Oh, have you? Okay 29 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.599 A:middle L:90% . Good. Yeah. Great. That he is 30 00:02:23.610 --> 00:02:27.150 A:middle L:90% , He's amazing fellow. Great stories. Yeah, 31 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:30.560 A:middle L:90% bringing virtual here. Right. Well, he did 32 00:02:31.539 --> 00:02:34.960 A:middle L:90% . He basically, I asked, I heard that 33 00:02:35.539 --> 00:02:38.990 A:middle L:90% . Yeah. He said to virtue word, I 34 00:02:38.990 --> 00:02:40.780 A:middle L:90% want to top architecture school, do whatever you need 35 00:02:40.780 --> 00:02:44.349 A:middle L:90% to do. And then they had the money. 36 00:02:46.150 --> 00:02:49.979 A:middle L:90% All right, we'll start off just with you as 37 00:02:49.979 --> 00:02:52.860 A:middle L:90% a student. So what brought you to target check 38 00:02:52.860 --> 00:02:54.860 A:middle L:90% your school here? Well, I came, um 39 00:02:55.539 --> 00:03:00.259 A:middle L:90% , two tech in 19 in the fall of 1965 40 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:05.280 A:middle L:90% and I had since very early on in life decided 41 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:07.199 A:middle L:90% that I wanted to be an architect not knowing fully 42 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.199 A:middle L:90% what that meant. But it turned out that what 43 00:03:10.210 --> 00:03:15.210 A:middle L:90% architecture was was something I thoroughly enjoyed. And so 44 00:03:15.210 --> 00:03:16.819 A:middle L:90% that's how it all got started. And White White 45 00:03:16.819 --> 00:03:20.860 A:middle L:90% Tech. Well, we had the best school in 46 00:03:20.860 --> 00:03:24.189 A:middle L:90% the state at the time. So this was 65 47 00:03:24.189 --> 00:03:29.479 A:middle L:90% . That was prior to Ferrari. I think Ferrari 48 00:03:29.490 --> 00:03:32.669 A:middle L:90% perhaps came maybe the year. Well, no, 49 00:03:32.669 --> 00:03:35.560 A:middle L:90% I think he was here when I was a freshman 50 00:03:35.590 --> 00:03:38.689 A:middle L:90% . Okay. Yeah. Yeah. As a matter 51 00:03:38.689 --> 00:03:40.199 A:middle L:90% of fact, I remember in the, some of 52 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:45.330 A:middle L:90% the design labs, you put your projects out there 53 00:03:45.330 --> 00:03:46.939 A:middle L:90% and uh, we have, you know, the 54 00:03:46.949 --> 00:03:50.680 A:middle L:90% faculty would walk around and then, you know, 55 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.379 A:middle L:90% we didn't have facilities like we have today. I 56 00:03:53.379 --> 00:03:54.949 A:middle L:90% think we were in the basement of what was in 57 00:03:54.949 --> 00:03:59.050 A:middle L:90% the old military building and you had to carry your 58 00:03:59.050 --> 00:04:02.259 A:middle L:90% drawing board and everything with you to class every time 59 00:04:02.259 --> 00:04:05.169 A:middle L:90% you didn't have a permanent desk, even so, 60 00:04:05.180 --> 00:04:08.629 A:middle L:90% particularly in the winter when you were walking across the 61 00:04:08.629 --> 00:04:11.520 A:middle L:90% drill field, you felt like a sailboat because the 62 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:13.560 A:middle L:90% wind was so much, it would take your drawing 63 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.519 A:middle L:90% board and sort of blow it out perpendicular to where 64 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:19.439 A:middle L:90% you were walking. Quite a different scene than what 65 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:23.480 A:middle L:90% we experienced today. So Koga was built while you 66 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.170 A:middle L:90% were here. Yeah. We moved into Kogel probably 67 00:04:27.170 --> 00:04:30.060 A:middle L:90% in my fourth year of architecture or something like that 68 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:31.750 A:middle L:90% . And I remember there was not enough money to 69 00:04:31.750 --> 00:04:34.129 A:middle L:90% finish the building. So the ground floor where the 70 00:04:34.129 --> 00:04:38.350 A:middle L:90% shops and things were, I was left as dirt 71 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:41.129 A:middle L:90% because there was not enough money to even put the 72 00:04:41.129 --> 00:04:44.019 A:middle L:90% bottom floor in. So wow. But it was 73 00:04:44.019 --> 00:04:46.879 A:middle L:90% still a big improvement compared to what we had before 74 00:04:46.889 --> 00:04:49.009 A:middle L:90% . So what a nice opportunity to get to see 75 00:04:49.009 --> 00:04:55.269 A:middle L:90% that. Oh, sure, Absolutely. So from 76 00:04:55.269 --> 00:04:58.899 A:middle L:90% everyone I've spoken to and that really seems like the 77 00:04:58.899 --> 00:05:01.939 A:middle L:90% heyday of the school where there were just seemed like 78 00:05:01.939 --> 00:05:05.689 A:middle L:90% they were incredible things happening with Burchard and Ferrari and 79 00:05:05.810 --> 00:05:09.680 A:middle L:90% when curry. Well, I certainly think the school 80 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:12.689 A:middle L:90% has subsequently gone on to do some extraordinary things. 81 00:05:12.689 --> 00:05:15.959 A:middle L:90% But I think I was lucky to come at a 82 00:05:15.970 --> 00:05:20.759 A:middle L:90% period where there was a sort of renaissance going on 83 00:05:21.139 --> 00:05:26.360 A:middle L:90% and we had extraordinary faculty from all over the world 84 00:05:27.019 --> 00:05:29.629 A:middle L:90% . And when you're just beginning, we didn't, 85 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:33.839 A:middle L:90% I didn't really realize the a level of talent that 86 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:36.970 A:middle L:90% I was exposed to as a student, but we 87 00:05:36.970 --> 00:05:43.240 A:middle L:90% had David Greene and Michael Webb from the Arche Graham 88 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.310 A:middle L:90% group had Herbert crumble from the th we had Ferrari 89 00:05:46.310 --> 00:05:49.100 A:middle L:90% from the Home School of Design, Miguel Gaston, 90 00:05:49.110 --> 00:05:55.449 A:middle L:90% people like that who were also young but extraordinarily dynamic 91 00:05:55.459 --> 00:05:58.060 A:middle L:90% teachers. And for me, it was just a 92 00:05:58.060 --> 00:06:02.089 A:middle L:90% wonderful experiences. It's difficult to describe how exciting it 93 00:06:02.089 --> 00:06:03.889 A:middle L:90% was. And the fact that, you know, 94 00:06:03.899 --> 00:06:08.060 A:middle L:90% on saturday nights we were in the design. Hello 95 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:12.250 A:middle L:90% , So exit. It also seems like that was 96 00:06:12.250 --> 00:06:15.870 A:middle L:90% a change in sort of education. One of how 97 00:06:15.870 --> 00:06:19.379 A:middle L:90% it kid an architect, Well ours was not the 98 00:06:19.379 --> 00:06:23.829 A:middle L:90% conventional one. Mm you know, we didn't do 99 00:06:23.829 --> 00:06:28.329 A:middle L:90% a lot of copying of greek columns and poaching walls 100 00:06:28.329 --> 00:06:30.490 A:middle L:90% and whatever else. It was really not only a 101 00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:32.949 A:middle L:90% change in terms of what you did, but it 102 00:06:32.949 --> 00:06:36.360 A:middle L:90% was a change in the paradigm of architectural education. 103 00:06:38.139 --> 00:06:40.019 A:middle L:90% And I think that was the part that was the 104 00:06:40.019 --> 00:06:44.480 A:middle L:90% most stimulating in the part that sustains our graduates over 105 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:46.759 A:middle L:90% time as they move forward in their careers and that 106 00:06:47.540 --> 00:06:51.439 A:middle L:90% that still exists today. Oh, yes, I 107 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:54.720 A:middle L:90% think, you know, we had the ideas which 108 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.420 A:middle L:90% perhaps we're not as well developed at the time, 109 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.180 A:middle L:90% but we didn't have the facilities to go along with 110 00:07:00.180 --> 00:07:03.149 A:middle L:90% them. And if you take, for example, 111 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:04.199 A:middle L:90% you know, what are we, what are we 112 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:08.129 A:middle L:90% trying to do? What we're trying to educate all 113 00:07:08.129 --> 00:07:11.540 A:middle L:90% dimensions of the intellect of our students. And so 114 00:07:11.540 --> 00:07:13.990 A:middle L:90% in addition to reading and writing and whatever, the 115 00:07:13.990 --> 00:07:18.370 A:middle L:90% experiential process, the tactile nature of materials and all 116 00:07:18.370 --> 00:07:24.649 A:middle L:90% that were key to developing architects whose talent would sustain 117 00:07:24.649 --> 00:07:27.250 A:middle L:90% them over time. But of course when I started 118 00:07:27.250 --> 00:07:29.819 A:middle L:90% , I think our entire shop facilities consisted of a 119 00:07:29.819 --> 00:07:32.490 A:middle L:90% table saw and a screwdriver. And we have nothing 120 00:07:32.490 --> 00:07:35.500 A:middle L:90% that compares to other students have today. So now 121 00:07:35.500 --> 00:07:41.439 A:middle L:90% with the computer uh controlled machine tools and all that 122 00:07:41.449 --> 00:07:44.459 A:middle L:90% , what we're able to do in architecture and industrial 123 00:07:44.459 --> 00:07:47.220 A:middle L:90% design or whatever is quantum leap over what students could 124 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:50.660 A:middle L:90% do before Now. Since you mentioned industrial design, 125 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:56.079 A:middle L:90% uh, I've heard from several people that Ferrari in 126 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:59.000 A:middle L:90% particular would be very would have been very excited to 127 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:01.389 A:middle L:90% see that come to fruition. Right. Maybe some 128 00:08:01.389 --> 00:08:05.620 A:middle L:90% of those other programs and how well I think we 129 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:09.240 A:middle L:90% always viewed design education in a holistic manner, whether 130 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:13.040 A:middle L:90% it was from the scale of the individual object all 131 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.350 A:middle L:90% the way up to urban design. But still, 132 00:08:16.350 --> 00:08:18.910 A:middle L:90% when you look at what we've been able to achieve 133 00:08:18.910 --> 00:08:22.250 A:middle L:90% an industrial design today, there is a certain in 134 00:08:22.250 --> 00:08:26.689 A:middle L:90% significant technical component to it that we didn't have before 135 00:08:26.689 --> 00:08:30.189 A:middle L:90% . So when I was dean, we started the 136 00:08:30.189 --> 00:08:31.889 A:middle L:90% industrial design program. These things take a while to 137 00:08:31.889 --> 00:08:35.620 A:middle L:90% get them through the bureaucracy and whatever else. But 138 00:08:35.620 --> 00:08:37.870 A:middle L:90% we always had the roots of that scale of design 139 00:08:37.870 --> 00:08:41.419 A:middle L:90% activity and the appreciation of materials and the elegance of 140 00:08:41.419 --> 00:08:45.570 A:middle L:90% operation and all that that was embedded really and the 141 00:08:45.570 --> 00:08:50.159 A:middle L:90% aesthetic of the curriculum as it moved forward. I'm 142 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:56.159 A:middle L:90% curious about just sort of what with the educational model 143 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:58.379 A:middle L:90% was like me. I keep hearing about these these 144 00:08:58.389 --> 00:09:03.039 A:middle L:90% personalities that were seemingly larger than life. Can you 145 00:09:03.049 --> 00:09:05.179 A:middle L:90% can you talk to me about you know, what's 146 00:09:05.179 --> 00:09:09.899 A:middle L:90% your memory of your studio classes and having these people 147 00:09:09.899 --> 00:09:13.799 A:middle L:90% as professors? Well, they all had and they 148 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:16.440 A:middle L:90% were different in personality, but all had very strong 149 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:26.399 A:middle L:90% personalities and had this enormous ability to uh find what 150 00:09:26.409 --> 00:09:31.679 A:middle L:90% motivated the individual student in terms of asking the right 151 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:33.009 A:middle L:90% question. They would never as we don't today, 152 00:09:33.019 --> 00:09:35.110 A:middle L:90% they would never come in and say, well that's 153 00:09:35.110 --> 00:09:39.610 A:middle L:90% wrong, do it this way. Their approach was 154 00:09:39.610 --> 00:09:41.669 A:middle L:90% really to help you to learn how to think and 155 00:09:41.669 --> 00:09:45.730 A:middle L:90% how to explore on your own with some guidance when 156 00:09:45.730 --> 00:09:48.429 A:middle L:90% it's appropriate to come up with the solution. And 157 00:09:48.429 --> 00:09:52.230 A:middle L:90% so you had people who had these qualities but they 158 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.840 A:middle L:90% manifest themselves in different ways. For example Herbert Cromwell 159 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:00.350 A:middle L:90% who was my principal professor when I was in the 160 00:10:00.350 --> 00:10:05.029 A:middle L:90% second year was very much focused on design methods and 161 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:09.659 A:middle L:90% logical ways of problem solving. Whereas Olivio Ferraro is 162 00:10:09.659 --> 00:10:13.139 A:middle L:90% much more intuitive in nature. They both resulted in 163 00:10:13.139 --> 00:10:18.139 A:middle L:90% their students doing wonderful work but they went about it 164 00:10:18.139 --> 00:10:22.549 A:middle L:90% in different ways and that's really that diversity made it 165 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:24.889 A:middle L:90% interesting and then you had you know Dave Green and 166 00:10:24.889 --> 00:10:30.639 A:middle L:90% others who were sort of iconoclastic folks who challenge the 167 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:35.779 A:middle L:90% existing establishment, the idea of plug in city that 168 00:10:35.779 --> 00:10:37.570 A:middle L:90% cedric price and all these people. So you had 169 00:10:37.570 --> 00:10:41.669 A:middle L:90% those guys having input to you as well. And 170 00:10:41.669 --> 00:10:43.940 A:middle L:90% the challenge was of course As you know 18 or 171 00:10:43.940 --> 00:10:46.360 A:middle L:90% 19 years old is trying to figure all this out 172 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:48.690 A:middle L:90% . What did you really mean? And how did 173 00:10:48.690 --> 00:10:52.759 A:middle L:90% you incorporate those kinds of perspectives into your own design 174 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:56.759 A:middle L:90% philosophy? Yeah. And if you're drawn to to 175 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:03.360 A:middle L:90% 1/1 method over another, Working all right. Um 176 00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:09.539 A:middle L:90% Well let me let me see that I'm very curious 177 00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:13.149 A:middle L:90% about, since you did end up coming back 16 178 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.759 A:middle L:90% , I've I've heard the this has almost become like 179 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:18.919 A:middle L:90% a saying, a lot of people have said it 180 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:20.870 A:middle L:90% the same way that you couldn't have had Ferrari without 181 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.669 A:middle L:90% birch tree. And after talking to the martial heart 182 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:26.559 A:middle L:90% , all it seems like you couldn't have maybe had 183 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:31.509 A:middle L:90% burchard without a strong president. Um So from your 184 00:11:31.509 --> 00:11:37.200 A:middle L:90% perspective as a former dean and current president, would 185 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:39.750 A:middle L:90% you did you see that? Is that accurate? 186 00:11:41.940 --> 00:11:43.309 A:middle L:90% I didn't, you know, as a beginning student 187 00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:46.379 A:middle L:90% , I had no idea, but later on I 188 00:11:46.389 --> 00:11:50.460 A:middle L:90% do think it's an accurate statement because when I looked 189 00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:54.159 A:middle L:90% at, you know, I got to know all 190 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:56.559 A:middle L:90% of these people very well became my Ferrari and Burchard 191 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:00.519 A:middle L:90% and how all of my friends and I got to 192 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.889 A:middle L:90% know them very well. The thing was, I 193 00:12:03.889 --> 00:12:07.309 A:middle L:90% think Olivia was one of the most extraordinary basic design 194 00:12:07.309 --> 00:12:09.139 A:middle L:90% teachers I have ever encountered anywhere in the world. 195 00:12:09.139 --> 00:12:11.669 A:middle L:90% And I've been, I've been most every place to 196 00:12:11.669 --> 00:12:16.409 A:middle L:90% schools of architecture and he did not fit the normal 197 00:12:16.409 --> 00:12:24.080 A:middle L:90% mold. So he needed someone to create an environment 198 00:12:24.220 --> 00:12:26.889 A:middle L:90% where he could function. And I think two things 199 00:12:26.889 --> 00:12:30.580 A:middle L:90% were present there. one uh, he had to 200 00:12:30.580 --> 00:12:33.820 A:middle L:90% have the intellectual vitality and the capacity to make it 201 00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:35.409 A:middle L:90% work and to motivate the students in which he was 202 00:12:35.419 --> 00:12:41.799 A:middle L:90% extraordinarily gifted. But also Burchard was able to understand 203 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:43.809 A:middle L:90% the pedagogical model and certainly contribute to it. But 204 00:12:43.809 --> 00:12:46.389 A:middle L:90% you know, Burchard had taught with Gropius at Harvard 205 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:50.279 A:middle L:90% and Han brought him in to, he was the 206 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:54.460 A:middle L:90% first dean of Architecture to really shake things up. 207 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.809 A:middle L:90% And he was extraordinarily skilled uh, in the, 208 00:12:58.809 --> 00:13:01.370 A:middle L:90% you know, the diplomacy of being a deem and 209 00:13:01.370 --> 00:13:05.039 A:middle L:90% interacting with the central administration and being able to project 210 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:07.309 A:middle L:90% an image of the institution across the country. I 211 00:13:07.309 --> 00:13:11.659 A:middle L:90% mean, we were, you know, famous after 212 00:13:11.659 --> 00:13:13.549 A:middle L:90% he was only there a couple of years when in 213 00:13:13.549 --> 00:13:16.690 A:middle L:90% fact, you know what he was talking about having 214 00:13:16.690 --> 00:13:18.919 A:middle L:90% , he didn't exist yet. He was building it 215 00:13:18.929 --> 00:13:24.639 A:middle L:90% , but it built enough enthusiasm and excitement that enabled 216 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.419 A:middle L:90% him then to continue to attract other gifted faculty and 217 00:13:28.419 --> 00:13:31.279 A:middle L:90% the reality took care of itself. And then of 218 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:37.129 A:middle L:90% course Marshall Han who was also a very gifted President 219 00:13:37.129 --> 00:13:39.429 A:middle L:90% . You know, he was president of tech in 220 00:13:39.429 --> 00:13:43.100 A:middle L:90% his early 30's while the youngest presidents of any major 221 00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:46.210 A:middle L:90% university in America. And he was extremely good at 222 00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:50.350 A:middle L:90% working with state government with hiring the right people and 223 00:13:50.350 --> 00:13:54.389 A:middle L:90% helping them to realize their vision and without the resources 224 00:13:54.399 --> 00:14:00.059 A:middle L:90% and the tolerance really that he provided the college couldn't 225 00:14:00.059 --> 00:14:03.960 A:middle L:90% have flourished. Burchard always went over his budgets by 226 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.490 A:middle L:90% january here. So you know, and han always 227 00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:11.320 A:middle L:90% helped them now today, that simply is not possible 228 00:14:11.330 --> 00:14:13.159 A:middle L:90% . You know, the resources are not there for 229 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.039 A:middle L:90% that to happen. So that style of operation. 230 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.840 A:middle L:90% But Burchard was able to articulate the vision of the 231 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:22.850 A:middle L:90% school in a way that very few people could. 232 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:28.279 A:middle L:90% And so uh, he understood what Ferrari was doing 233 00:14:28.289 --> 00:14:31.129 A:middle L:90% . He really served as a translator to the outside 234 00:14:31.129 --> 00:14:33.980 A:middle L:90% world and managed the whole thing. And Ferrari of 235 00:14:33.980 --> 00:14:35.590 A:middle L:90% course, uh, was the guy on the line 236 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:37.110 A:middle L:90% , the classroom we had, as I say, 237 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:39.759 A:middle L:90% Cromelin other gets a lot of very gifted faculty, 238 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:43.649 A:middle L:90% but Olivia was the leader later tom Reagan, Jean 239 00:14:43.649 --> 00:14:46.659 A:middle L:90% , Egger, Bill Brown and all those people, 240 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:50.899 A:middle L:90% I'll contributed to that. So yeah. Well, 241 00:14:50.269 --> 00:14:54.940 A:middle L:90% I think there's their seemingly right people said that there's 242 00:14:54.950 --> 00:14:58.309 A:middle L:90% really a tradition of strong beans and that's been critical 243 00:14:58.309 --> 00:15:03.620 A:middle L:90% and noise talks about here. Well, it was 244 00:15:03.620 --> 00:15:07.179 A:middle L:90% interesting. I'll tell you a little story about this 245 00:15:07.539 --> 00:15:11.350 A:middle L:90% when Charles burchard decided that he was going to retire 246 00:15:11.529 --> 00:15:16.149 A:middle L:90% and I think 12 or 13 years as dean, 247 00:15:16.940 --> 00:15:18.769 A:middle L:90% uh, and john Wilson, who was the provost 248 00:15:18.769 --> 00:15:22.009 A:middle L:90% when I was appointed Dean, told me this years 249 00:15:22.009 --> 00:15:24.139 A:middle L:90% later, but he said he's walking across the drill 250 00:15:24.139 --> 00:15:28.059 A:middle L:90% field with Burchard. And he said, well, 251 00:15:28.070 --> 00:15:30.679 A:middle L:90% he said, Charles, do you, you know 252 00:15:30.690 --> 00:15:33.279 A:middle L:90% , is there anybody in the college you think maybe 253 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.990 A:middle L:90% it could be your successor? And so Bircher told 254 00:15:35.990 --> 00:15:39.740 A:middle L:90% them that I possibly could do that. And Wilson 255 00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:41.019 A:middle L:90% told me, he said, I thought the man 256 00:15:41.019 --> 00:15:45.980 A:middle L:90% had lost his mind because I was only 29 years 257 00:15:45.980 --> 00:15:48.379 A:middle L:90% old or something like this. I had just come 258 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:50.470 A:middle L:90% back to the tech after being in practice for a 259 00:15:50.470 --> 00:15:52.820 A:middle L:90% while, but Wilson said, I thought he lost 260 00:15:52.820 --> 00:15:56.740 A:middle L:90% his mind. But later, of course, a 261 00:15:56.750 --> 00:16:00.019 A:middle L:90% couple of years later I was appointed and oh and 262 00:16:00.019 --> 00:16:03.649 A:middle L:90% well, yeah, I got the GT award. 263 00:16:03.850 --> 00:16:07.259 A:middle L:90% Okay. He said that you know, that they 264 00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:10.370 A:middle L:90% were all quite sure that you well, I was 265 00:16:10.370 --> 00:16:14.470 A:middle L:90% very fortunate to have the opportunity. I think I 266 00:16:14.470 --> 00:16:17.299 A:middle L:90% was the youngest dean of Architecture in America at the 267 00:16:17.299 --> 00:16:22.029 A:middle L:90% time, but it couldn't have succeeded without the support 268 00:16:22.029 --> 00:16:25.230 A:middle L:90% of everybody there. You know, it's it's uh 269 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:26.950 A:middle L:90% it's a team effort and I was lucky to have 270 00:16:26.950 --> 00:16:32.250 A:middle L:90% these wonderful faculty and alumni like GT board who really 271 00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:34.029 A:middle L:90% helped me in every endeavor. And the college went 272 00:16:34.029 --> 00:16:37.720 A:middle L:90% on to do extremely and is doing extremely well. 273 00:16:37.730 --> 00:16:38.850 A:middle L:90% So I'm very proud of what everybody has done. 274 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.279 A:middle L:90% Was that strange to come back and I'll be Dean 275 00:16:42.289 --> 00:16:45.679 A:middle L:90% over your. It was, it was, but 276 00:16:45.690 --> 00:16:51.330 A:middle L:90% I came back to get my PhD here and I 277 00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:56.529 A:middle L:90% taught and then I was department had for a little 278 00:16:56.529 --> 00:16:57.610 A:middle L:90% while and then dean. So, you know, 279 00:16:57.610 --> 00:17:00.659 A:middle L:90% I've been around a couple of years before all that 280 00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:00.919 A:middle L:90% happened. But yeah, it was a little bit 281 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:03.119 A:middle L:90% of a change of pace, but it was fun 282 00:17:03.670 --> 00:17:06.990 A:middle L:90% . I have no regrets. There seems to be 283 00:17:06.990 --> 00:17:11.559 A:middle L:90% a strong interest in education from the people that were 284 00:17:11.140 --> 00:17:14.839 A:middle L:90% students during that time. And I think, I 285 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:18.789 A:middle L:90% mean it seems clear that these people were so innovative 286 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:22.170 A:middle L:90% and exciting that you couldn't help but maybe get interested 287 00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:25.720 A:middle L:90% . Is that what got you interested in coming back 288 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:27.000 A:middle L:90% in teaching or was it just sort of a store 289 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:33.460 A:middle L:90% your pathway well? And it was only after I 290 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:37.880 A:middle L:90% came back and was teaching that others? I mean 291 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:38.890 A:middle L:90% I taught as an adjunct for a little bit before 292 00:17:38.890 --> 00:17:41.710 A:middle L:90% that, but it was, my class was like 293 00:17:41.710 --> 00:17:44.130 A:middle L:90% friday nights after I finish up on a project or 294 00:17:44.130 --> 00:17:48.890 A:middle L:90% something, but I'd always had the intellectually the interest 295 00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:52.160 A:middle L:90% in the whole teaching learning process and you know, 296 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.700 A:middle L:90% what goes on in the university, but the thing 297 00:17:56.700 --> 00:18:03.269 A:middle L:90% that differentiated our college from others and is present today 298 00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:07.230 A:middle L:90% , you're looking at a holistic model of education which 299 00:18:07.230 --> 00:18:08.849 A:middle L:90% we try to promote in the university as a whole 300 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:11.670 A:middle L:90% . You know, you not only want to graduate 301 00:18:11.670 --> 00:18:15.410 A:middle L:90% students with high competence in their profession, but they 302 00:18:15.410 --> 00:18:19.029 A:middle L:90% have to you want people who have a broader view 303 00:18:19.029 --> 00:18:22.559 A:middle L:90% of the world, who are able to integrate knowledge 304 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:26.710 A:middle L:90% and who developed a set of values and concepts and 305 00:18:26.710 --> 00:18:30.450 A:middle L:90% the capacity to think critically, that will enable them 306 00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:33.880 A:middle L:90% to be productive citizens of democratic society. So, 307 00:18:33.890 --> 00:18:37.220 A:middle L:90% you know, one of the things that characterizes what 308 00:18:37.220 --> 00:18:40.200 A:middle L:90% we do is that within the disciplines or in a 309 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:44.190 A:middle L:90% profession there is the generation of new knowledge and that's 310 00:18:44.190 --> 00:18:47.410 A:middle L:90% very important in biology or whatever else. And in 311 00:18:47.410 --> 00:18:52.799 A:middle L:90% a professional school, the there is the obligation uh 312 00:18:52.809 --> 00:18:55.779 A:middle L:90% to be prescriptive in that there is a problem and 313 00:18:55.779 --> 00:18:59.470 A:middle L:90% as a professional architect or whatever you have to decide 314 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:00.359 A:middle L:90% , prescribe what to do about it, you know 315 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:03.700 A:middle L:90% ? And but then we had something beyond that, 316 00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:07.599 A:middle L:90% which is a synthetic component of how to integrate knowledge 317 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.319 A:middle L:90% from these various disciplines. And so you have this 318 00:19:11.329 --> 00:19:15.859 A:middle L:90% synthetic and prescriptive role of the person that we're graduating 319 00:19:15.859 --> 00:19:18.180 A:middle L:90% , which is not always present in every other place 320 00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:22.319 A:middle L:90% around the country. And so you see that happening 321 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.450 A:middle L:90% from the very first days in the basic design lab 322 00:19:25.940 --> 00:19:29.220 A:middle L:90% , you know, you're looking at it holistically but 323 00:19:29.230 --> 00:19:32.410 A:middle L:90% the circle is small and it's really not a circle 324 00:19:32.410 --> 00:19:33.940 A:middle L:90% , it's sort of a growing helix says each time 325 00:19:33.940 --> 00:19:40.140 A:middle L:90% you cycle through the design process of analyzing and coming 326 00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:42.980 A:middle L:90% up posing some solution, the complexity grows over time 327 00:19:42.980 --> 00:19:45.380 A:middle L:90% . So you get this sort of helix that grows 328 00:19:45.390 --> 00:19:49.359 A:middle L:90% and the students learn how to integrate and they learn 329 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.430 A:middle L:90% how to use different dimensions of their intellect. Because 330 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.210 A:middle L:90% in working through designs, you know, you can't 331 00:19:56.210 --> 00:19:59.819 A:middle L:90% sort of draw every possibility you would be here till 332 00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:00.859 A:middle L:90% the end of the universe literally if you did that 333 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.329 A:middle L:90% . So you have to develop other types of intellectual 334 00:20:04.329 --> 00:20:10.660 A:middle L:90% abilities and that is to recognize patterns and in complex 335 00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:12.950 A:middle L:90% settings where there's high uncertainty. These are the types 336 00:20:12.950 --> 00:20:15.079 A:middle L:90% of skills that make it give a designer of the 337 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:19.819 A:middle L:90% capacity to synthesize and integrate and then therefore, and 338 00:20:19.819 --> 00:20:22.779 A:middle L:90% be able to prescribe, you know what's going on 339 00:20:22.779 --> 00:20:23.480 A:middle L:90% . You can't know everything but you got to know 340 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.890 A:middle L:90% what those critical structuring variables are and they change depending 341 00:20:26.890 --> 00:20:30.150 A:middle L:90% on the problem. So yeah hans talk about these 342 00:20:30.150 --> 00:20:34.720 A:middle L:90% core principles. Key. Yeah. Well I can 343 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.839 A:middle L:90% save me now that I have Children. Yeah, 344 00:20:38.339 --> 00:20:42.279 A:middle L:90% I can't think of anything better than no matter what 345 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:45.109 A:middle L:90% they want to do right, make them good architecture 346 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.119 A:middle L:90% , right? You know? Well people have asked 347 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.759 A:middle L:90% me, he said well how did you know being 348 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.460 A:middle L:90% an architect prepare you to be president of the university 349 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.289 A:middle L:90% and I said I use it every day because your 350 00:20:56.289 --> 00:21:00.410 A:middle L:90% face, you know you're not necessarily dealing with particular 351 00:21:00.410 --> 00:21:03.559 A:middle L:90% buildings or spaces or whatever but you're dealing with creative 352 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:07.230 A:middle L:90% problem solving where there is high uncertainty, you don't 353 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:11.099 A:middle L:90% know all the variables and yet you have to make 354 00:21:11.099 --> 00:21:15.779 A:middle L:90% decisions and so you have to learn develop to develop 355 00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:18.069 A:middle L:90% not only the your deductive skills and whatever, but 356 00:21:18.069 --> 00:21:22.420 A:middle L:90% your intuition and intuition is not just sort of what 357 00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:26.400 A:middle L:90% you dreamed of last night. It comes from experience 358 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.779 A:middle L:90% over time and the insight that you gain from that 359 00:21:29.779 --> 00:21:30.960 A:middle L:90% experience and you have to bring them all to bear 360 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:33.650 A:middle L:90% . Because some days you can't you can't wait three 361 00:21:33.650 --> 00:21:37.079 A:middle L:90% weeks, you have to decide today. And so 362 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:40.920 A:middle L:90% you need every uh capacity for insight that you have 363 00:21:40.930 --> 00:21:44.500 A:middle L:90% to arrive at those decisions in a creative way because 364 00:21:44.500 --> 00:21:47.519 A:middle L:90% often you have constraints that you sometimes can't live with 365 00:21:47.529 --> 00:21:49.420 A:middle L:90% and yet you know, go on and survive for 366 00:21:49.420 --> 00:21:53.609 A:middle L:90% another day. Yeah. I mean I think I've 367 00:21:53.619 --> 00:21:57.430 A:middle L:90% gotten very interested in classical education because it just doesn't 368 00:21:57.430 --> 00:22:03.059 A:middle L:90% exist anymore. And again with Children, these things 369 00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:04.460 A:middle L:90% start to, but if you do it right, 370 00:22:04.940 --> 00:22:10.289 A:middle L:90% if you sparked that curiosity and you helped the student 371 00:22:10.289 --> 00:22:15.099 A:middle L:90% understand that it's not the sort of one way transfer 372 00:22:15.099 --> 00:22:19.019 A:middle L:90% of information that that is your eye obligation. If 373 00:22:19.019 --> 00:22:22.059 A:middle L:90% you don't know something to find it out, then 374 00:22:22.069 --> 00:22:26.000 A:middle L:90% the dimensions of understanding architecture, history and theory and 375 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.220 A:middle L:90% whatever else, you know, you have to put 376 00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:30.789 A:middle L:90% out a lot of efforts yourself. I spent years 377 00:22:30.789 --> 00:22:36.099 A:middle L:90% reading books and architectural history and theory because it was 378 00:22:36.099 --> 00:22:37.970 A:middle L:90% something I didn't know enough about. Uh, and 379 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:40.900 A:middle L:90% it, but it helped me to understand other things 380 00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:42.549 A:middle L:90% . I also went through the philosophy program at the 381 00:22:42.549 --> 00:22:45.119 A:middle L:90% same time and that was a great tool for me 382 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:49.200 A:middle L:90% and learning how to think. That's why I had 383 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.849 A:middle L:90% a similar went from architecture to film and philosophy, 384 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.660 A:middle L:90% philosophy and then who's making films for years. And 385 00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:00.170 A:middle L:90% I mean this is the strongest endorsement to the squad 386 00:23:00.170 --> 00:23:03.380 A:middle L:90% and you have And I was here for a year 387 00:23:03.390 --> 00:23:07.460 A:middle L:90% when I was 18 Have to go to cooper and 388 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:10.869 A:middle L:90% then took a strange different path. And when I 389 00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:12.569 A:middle L:90% decided I wanted to go back, I missed, 390 00:23:12.670 --> 00:23:15.470 A:middle L:90% I really felt like that was an open loop in 391 00:23:15.470 --> 00:23:17.750 A:middle L:90% my life. This is the only place I wanted 392 00:23:17.750 --> 00:23:19.259 A:middle L:90% to come. You miss it. And you know 393 00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:22.859 A:middle L:90% , when that spark is struck, you love it 394 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.880 A:middle L:90% . You know, there's nothing more that you'd rather 395 00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:26.960 A:middle L:90% do than to do what you're doing. You know 396 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:30.119 A:middle L:90% , and that's a great situation to be in. 397 00:23:30.490 --> 00:23:33.740 A:middle L:90% There's something very special about Virginia tech. You know 398 00:23:33.740 --> 00:23:36.009 A:middle L:90% , I know that there are other programs that maybe 399 00:23:36.009 --> 00:23:38.769 A:middle L:90% you have similar models, but I think maybe part 400 00:23:38.769 --> 00:23:41.200 A:middle L:90% of it is geography. There's not a lot around 401 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.380 A:middle L:90% here. I think that's true that you focus in 402 00:23:44.380 --> 00:23:45.960 A:middle L:90% orderly and I think it has to do with the 403 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.849 A:middle L:90% culture of the school and the culture of the institution 404 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.640 A:middle L:90% . Yeah. There's a lot of shared values and 405 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:57.160 A:middle L:90% a lot of commitments and students amongst their colleagues, 406 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.849 A:middle L:90% They always set the bar higher than anybody else. 407 00:24:00.339 --> 00:24:03.059 A:middle L:90% They keep raising what they and we have very good 408 00:24:03.059 --> 00:24:06.269 A:middle L:90% students and they can do well, it's not, 409 00:24:06.269 --> 00:24:07.740 A:middle L:90% you know, they raise the standard, but they 410 00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:10.740 A:middle L:90% can meet it. And some remarkable what they've been 411 00:24:10.740 --> 00:24:14.349 A:middle L:90% able to accomplish. Talking to GT Award was really 412 00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:17.519 A:middle L:90% very interesting because he was here when I forget the 413 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:18.180 A:middle L:90% number. He said how many students were here, 414 00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:22.180 A:middle L:90% but it was nothing. That's right. He was 415 00:24:22.180 --> 00:24:23.849 A:middle L:90% here in the 50s and then hearing him talk about 416 00:24:23.859 --> 00:24:26.079 A:middle L:90% how it grew and grew and grew. And I 417 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:30.089 A:middle L:90% just think that's something again, maybe not unique, 418 00:24:30.099 --> 00:24:33.910 A:middle L:90% but something special about tech. Well, if it 419 00:24:33.910 --> 00:24:37.490 A:middle L:90% weren't for GT Ward and Tia carter and Henry's driver 420 00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:41.240 A:middle L:90% and lots of folks like that, we wouldn't have 421 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.089 A:middle L:90% the european studies centre in Riva san vitale. They 422 00:24:45.089 --> 00:24:47.599 A:middle L:90% are the folks, I mean, we remember putting 423 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:52.640 A:middle L:90% together this advisory committee which every college has one now 424 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:53.700 A:middle L:90% , but we were really one of the first to 425 00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:57.180 A:middle L:90% do that. And we had our first meeting at 426 00:24:57.190 --> 00:25:00.839 A:middle L:90% bus feel that europe outside of Zurich where they would 427 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.359 A:middle L:90% take the students in the summer. And we talked 428 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:07.380 A:middle L:90% about acquiring a place and in all that, which 429 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:10.900 A:middle L:90% then we had no money. We had a vision 430 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.150 A:middle L:90% . But if it weren't for those guys it wouldn't 431 00:25:14.150 --> 00:25:17.019 A:middle L:90% have happened. They were a great force. Can 432 00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:18.839 A:middle L:90% you imagine, you know, telling the president of 433 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:21.660 A:middle L:90% the Governor that we want to buy a villa in 434 00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:26.269 A:middle L:90% Switzerland when they were cutting the budgets, literally. 435 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:30.640 A:middle L:90% I remember we were in the midst of trying to 436 00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:36.710 A:middle L:90% get a facility over there and the governor was the 437 00:25:36.710 --> 00:25:41.190 A:middle L:90% budgets are being cut next president at the time. 438 00:25:41.190 --> 00:25:42.339 A:middle L:90% And I understood his political dilemma. It wasn't that 439 00:25:42.339 --> 00:25:44.529 A:middle L:90% he didn't want to do it, but he said 440 00:25:44.529 --> 00:25:45.789 A:middle L:90% , you know, I know you've worked hard on 441 00:25:45.789 --> 00:25:48.920 A:middle L:90% this, but we just can't go forward. Can 442 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.779 A:middle L:90% you imagine the problems we have spending money in Switzerland 443 00:25:52.779 --> 00:25:55.769 A:middle L:90% and whatever else? So I understood that. So 444 00:25:55.769 --> 00:25:56.630 A:middle L:90% I said, what if I can keep this thing 445 00:25:56.630 --> 00:26:02.240 A:middle L:90% alive? Not using any resources from the state of 446 00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:04.240 A:middle L:90% course, or the Foundation. So I call the 447 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.769 A:middle L:90% same people. I just mentioned. Bill Jamerson was 448 00:26:07.769 --> 00:26:10.630 A:middle L:90% another one and said, look, you know, 449 00:26:10.630 --> 00:26:14.809 A:middle L:90% I need I forget what it was 35 or$40,000 450 00:26:14.809 --> 00:26:18.269 A:middle L:90% to by a purchase option on this property. And 451 00:26:18.740 --> 00:26:21.970 A:middle L:90% and not a single person turned me down. I 452 00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:25.019 A:middle L:90% put up money to do it. And we kept 453 00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:27.390 A:middle L:90% the thing alive until the politics improved and then we 454 00:26:27.390 --> 00:26:30.859 A:middle L:90% could renew our efforts and otherwise we would have lost 455 00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:32.920 A:middle L:90% . And those are little things, you know, 456 00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:34.509 A:middle L:90% that most people never hear about because you don't want 457 00:26:34.509 --> 00:26:37.569 A:middle L:90% anybody to know that. I'm really kind of going 458 00:26:37.569 --> 00:26:41.720 A:middle L:90% around what what was the prescribed thing? But that's 459 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.049 A:middle L:90% the way some of these things happen. You say 460 00:26:44.049 --> 00:26:45.220 A:middle L:90% you had a vision. I mean, I think 461 00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:48.470 A:middle L:90% that's that's amazing piece that, you know, you 462 00:26:48.470 --> 00:26:52.470 A:middle L:90% really you all understood, you had an idea of 463 00:26:52.470 --> 00:26:55.950 A:middle L:90% what needed to happen to make better architects. Well 464 00:26:55.950 --> 00:27:00.440 A:middle L:90% , it's so important for students to experience. Yeah 465 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:03.220 A:middle L:90% . The changes, you know, the nature of 466 00:27:03.220 --> 00:27:04.349 A:middle L:90% the space and the texture of the materials and the 467 00:27:04.349 --> 00:27:08.579 A:middle L:90% landscape and be able to understand operate and read a 468 00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:11.470 A:middle L:90% different culture. If they can't do that, they're 469 00:27:11.470 --> 00:27:15.039 A:middle L:90% not going to be very good architects. And so 470 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.400 A:middle L:90% it's really essential to their education to make these opportunities 471 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:21.799 A:middle L:90% possible for them and today's global society, it's even 472 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:26.910 A:middle L:90% more important than it was then great. Um and 473 00:27:26.910 --> 00:27:30.509 A:middle L:90% you wanted the only stories about any of these folks 474 00:27:30.509 --> 00:27:34.170 A:middle L:90% that you want to share, any, I don't 475 00:27:34.170 --> 00:27:40.319 A:middle L:90% know. It's if I tell about one, I 476 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:41.450 A:middle L:90% have to tell about all of them probably in the 477 00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:48.650 A:middle L:90% process. one of the things that we did accomplish 478 00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:53.720 A:middle L:90% that has set the foundation for the solar decathlon accomplishments 479 00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.769 A:middle L:90% and all that is that when we started, when 480 00:27:56.769 --> 00:28:00.869 A:middle L:90% I started, we research and architecture pretty much didn't 481 00:28:00.869 --> 00:28:04.829 A:middle L:90% exist. And yet we knew that in order to 482 00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:07.940 A:middle L:90% advance the state of the art, there had to 483 00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:11.130 A:middle L:90% be a lot of you had to move the compass 484 00:28:11.140 --> 00:28:15.420 A:middle L:90% , move the needle so that new types of knowledge 485 00:28:15.420 --> 00:28:18.049 A:middle L:90% could come in to help us understand new materials. 486 00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:22.720 A:middle L:90% For example, even in accounting principles, you know 487 00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.160 A:middle L:90% how you depreciate the difference between equipment and the building 488 00:28:26.230 --> 00:28:30.069 A:middle L:90% , changed what got built. And I didn't think 489 00:28:30.069 --> 00:28:32.880 A:middle L:90% it was very good to have accountants making design decisions 490 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:34.539 A:middle L:90% , but the fact that they were so we were 491 00:28:34.539 --> 00:28:37.559 A:middle L:90% able and we did a lot of work and into 492 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.980 A:middle L:90% our air quality and with the masonry materials are, 493 00:28:41.990 --> 00:28:45.410 A:middle L:90% you know, research demo facility months that was donated 494 00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:49.059 A:middle L:90% by the masonry industry and the space, the frame 495 00:28:49.059 --> 00:28:52.700 A:middle L:90% space frameless, there was donated to us and everything 496 00:28:52.339 --> 00:28:56.460 A:middle L:90% . So we move from really not being a player 497 00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.539 A:middle L:90% to probably, I think second or so in terms 498 00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:04.000 A:middle L:90% of research of all architecture schools in America and it 499 00:29:04.009 --> 00:29:07.029 A:middle L:90% it did create sort of a cultural change. And 500 00:29:07.029 --> 00:29:08.670 A:middle L:90% I think a lot of the things that we enjoy 501 00:29:08.670 --> 00:29:11.619 A:middle L:90% today with a tremendous success of the solar decathlon, 502 00:29:11.619 --> 00:29:14.319 A:middle L:90% I mean really, you know, that was a 503 00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:15.430 A:middle L:90% little bit of the foundation they built upon and they've 504 00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:18.960 A:middle L:90% taken a much farther and they've done a wonderful job 505 00:29:18.539 --> 00:29:21.789 A:middle L:90% . But it was those sorts of things that often 506 00:29:21.789 --> 00:29:23.809 A:middle L:90% don't get too much visibility, you know, I'll 507 00:29:23.809 --> 00:29:26.619 A:middle L:90% tell you one other little thing that we tried to 508 00:29:26.619 --> 00:29:30.430 A:middle L:90% do, we wanted the environment in the college to 509 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:36.380 A:middle L:90% feel like a special place where excuse me, unusual 510 00:29:36.380 --> 00:29:37.990 A:middle L:90% things happens. And one of the things that we 511 00:29:37.990 --> 00:29:41.539 A:middle L:90% did on a fairly regular basis, we had a 512 00:29:41.549 --> 00:29:45.450 A:middle L:90% chamber music group, the Autobahn Quartet at the time 513 00:29:45.140 --> 00:29:48.650 A:middle L:90% and I would arrange sometimes a year in advance for 514 00:29:48.650 --> 00:29:51.109 A:middle L:90% them to come over and give a concert. But 515 00:29:51.109 --> 00:29:52.890 A:middle L:90% there was never announced, you know, because we 516 00:29:52.890 --> 00:29:56.109 A:middle L:90% had to work it in their schedule. But when 517 00:29:56.109 --> 00:29:57.009 A:middle L:90% we did the day we did it, they just 518 00:29:57.009 --> 00:30:00.730 A:middle L:90% came in, set the risers up and You know 519 00:30:00.730 --> 00:30:03.170 A:middle L:90% , they showed up about 3:00 and played a concert 520 00:30:03.740 --> 00:30:06.200 A:middle L:90% and they would not be dressed in tuxedos but in 521 00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:07.619 A:middle L:90% their blue jeans and they would talk about the music 522 00:30:07.619 --> 00:30:11.420 A:middle L:90% and whatever in the lobby of Koga was always packed 523 00:30:11.430 --> 00:30:14.150 A:middle L:90% . There was one in the music is beautiful and 524 00:30:14.150 --> 00:30:17.440 A:middle L:90% it was always wonderful. So you enjoyed it at 525 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:19.609 A:middle L:90% that level. But my, the underlying reason for 526 00:30:19.609 --> 00:30:23.150 A:middle L:90% doing it is I wanted to create this environment that 527 00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:26.480 A:middle L:90% the college was a very special place. That unusual 528 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.220 A:middle L:90% things would happen and therefore we expect you to do 529 00:30:30.220 --> 00:30:33.410 A:middle L:90% unusual things, you know, just to kind of 530 00:30:33.410 --> 00:30:37.269 A:middle L:90% build that sense of that. That's okay. Mhm 531 00:30:37.809 --> 00:30:40.559 A:middle L:90% . That you can do something that's never been done 532 00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.789 A:middle L:90% before. Remember when john Cage died? some students 533 00:30:44.789 --> 00:30:48.279 A:middle L:90% came, they were sitting outside my office seven something 534 00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:49.940 A:middle L:90% in the morning when I came in and they said 535 00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:52.289 A:middle L:90% , K just died. And they said, we 536 00:30:52.289 --> 00:30:56.460 A:middle L:90% want to Bringing a piano and put some of his 537 00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:57.349 A:middle L:90% scores. Of course he would go for 20 minutes 538 00:30:57.349 --> 00:31:02.089 A:middle L:90% without playing a note, you know, up to 539 00:31:02.099 --> 00:31:06.220 A:middle L:90% recognize his contribution. And so I said, okay 540 00:31:06.230 --> 00:31:07.910 A:middle L:90% , we'll do that. So we paid to have 541 00:31:07.910 --> 00:31:10.910 A:middle L:90% a grand piano brought over and whatever. Now that 542 00:31:10.910 --> 00:31:14.490 A:middle L:90% in itself is fine. But what was important to 543 00:31:14.490 --> 00:31:18.380 A:middle L:90% me was that the students felt they could come in 544 00:31:18.380 --> 00:31:21.119 A:middle L:90% and make such a request and it wouldn't be considered 545 00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:22.690 A:middle L:90% or you guys are crazy. You know, why 546 00:31:22.690 --> 00:31:23.619 A:middle L:90% should you do that? You know, I said 547 00:31:23.619 --> 00:31:26.740 A:middle L:90% , okay, we'll do it. And we did 548 00:31:26.980 --> 00:31:27.480 A:middle L:90% . And so, you know, hundreds of things 549 00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.089 A:middle L:90% like that happen, not just with me, with 550 00:31:30.089 --> 00:31:32.849 A:middle L:90% the faculty, with everybody else, but we wanted 551 00:31:32.849 --> 00:31:37.829 A:middle L:90% to sort of liberation of the intellect of motivated students 552 00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:40.789 A:middle L:90% , Uh, to create this next generation of folks 553 00:31:40.789 --> 00:31:44.839 A:middle L:90% who between now 2050, The world is going to 554 00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:48.279 A:middle L:90% have nine billion people, you know, and where 555 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.119 A:middle L:90% they're going to live and what, what will the 556 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:53.599 A:middle L:90% cities look like? Energy consumption patterns can't be the 557 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:56.480 A:middle L:90% same. All this is going to change. And 558 00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:00.009 A:middle L:90% we've got to have people who have the intellectual ability 559 00:32:00.009 --> 00:32:05.170 A:middle L:90% , that professional preparation and the capacity for thinking innovatively 560 00:32:05.170 --> 00:32:07.710 A:middle L:90% in a critical way, uh, to help solve 561 00:32:07.710 --> 00:32:09.069 A:middle L:90% this problem or otherwise, the world is in for 562 00:32:09.069 --> 00:32:14.890 A:middle L:90% a disaster. Not that you did you realize all 563 00:32:14.890 --> 00:32:15.900 A:middle L:90% of these things about architecture when you're underground? I 564 00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:17.970 A:middle L:90% know the education, I think that's what's tremendous about 565 00:32:17.970 --> 00:32:21.960 A:middle L:90% our is that it's a lifelong education. You never 566 00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:23.099 A:middle L:90% stop. You do, but not at the same 567 00:32:23.099 --> 00:32:25.730 A:middle L:90% depth of understanding. I mean, after you've had 568 00:32:25.730 --> 00:32:28.920 A:middle L:90% a decade or so to think about it changes a 569 00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:31.400 A:middle L:90% little bit. Sure, but I have to say 570 00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:34.089 A:middle L:90% from my own point of view, you never lose 571 00:32:34.089 --> 00:32:37.920 A:middle L:90% your enthusiasm. You know, that's kind of the 572 00:32:37.930 --> 00:32:38.759 A:middle L:90% joy of it, you know, that's what keeps 573 00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:44.579 A:middle L:90% you going okay. I, you know, unless 574 00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:47.769 A:middle L:90% there's anything else you Yes, thank you. Right 575 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.009 A:middle L:90% . Yeah. The only other thing I'm just kind 576 00:32:52.009 --> 00:32:55.180 A:middle L:90% of curious about, it's just and you touched on 577 00:32:55.180 --> 00:32:58.190 A:middle L:90% a little bit, but just so you were here 578 00:32:58.190 --> 00:33:00.470 A:middle L:90% for your undergrad and you went into practice and then 579 00:33:00.470 --> 00:33:02.089 A:middle L:90% you came back if you can just sort of talk 580 00:33:02.089 --> 00:33:05.490 A:middle L:90% about, you know, maybe a little bit about 581 00:33:05.500 --> 00:33:07.880 A:middle L:90% practice and then, well, I was here, 582 00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:10.440 A:middle L:90% I got my bachelors and Architecture and a Masters in 583 00:33:10.450 --> 00:33:14.440 A:middle L:90% Urban design. Then I went to work for a 584 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:19.160 A:middle L:90% private firm and I was again extremely lucky to get 585 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.960 A:middle L:90% a lot of responsibility very soon, and I got 586 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:27.220 A:middle L:90% to design some pretty large projects. Um and it 587 00:33:27.220 --> 00:33:30.529 A:middle L:90% gave me tremendous experience. In fact, we were 588 00:33:30.539 --> 00:33:32.859 A:middle L:90% this was in the 60s when the environmental movement was 589 00:33:32.859 --> 00:33:36.269 A:middle L:90% really, you know, the National Environmental Protection Act 590 00:33:36.269 --> 00:33:38.420 A:middle L:90% was passed in 65. And we were doing all 591 00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:45.089 A:middle L:90% these projects and I came to the conclusion that nobody 592 00:33:45.089 --> 00:33:47.900 A:middle L:90% knew much about ecological systems and all this sort of 593 00:33:47.900 --> 00:33:51.769 A:middle L:90% stuff. And I decided to go back to get 594 00:33:51.769 --> 00:33:54.980 A:middle L:90% my PhD in environmental science, which I did not 595 00:33:54.980 --> 00:33:58.069 A:middle L:90% to be a scientist and not to be a professor 596 00:33:58.069 --> 00:33:59.849 A:middle L:90% , but to be a better architect and planner. 597 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:02.829 A:middle L:90% And that's why I did it and learn a bit 598 00:34:02.829 --> 00:34:07.690 A:middle L:90% about mhm Organic chemistry and microbiology and all those things 599 00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:12.619 A:middle L:90% so that I could better understand how we integrated the 600 00:34:12.619 --> 00:34:17.309 A:middle L:90% man built environment with the natural environment without destroying things 601 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:20.590 A:middle L:90% . So that was kind of the root of it 602 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.139 A:middle L:90% , the process. But I was very fortunate to 603 00:34:23.210 --> 00:34:27.550 A:middle L:90% work with some great people who were extremely kind to 604 00:34:27.550 --> 00:34:29.789 A:middle L:90% me, even when I came back to school. 605 00:34:29.789 --> 00:34:30.800 A:middle L:90% they, at the time, this is a very 606 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:34.079 A:middle L:90% high tech piece of equipment. I remember they provided 607 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:36.869 A:middle L:90% me with an IBM Selectric typewriter, you know, 608 00:34:36.869 --> 00:34:38.050 A:middle L:90% with a little ball that moved around. That was 609 00:34:38.050 --> 00:34:42.420 A:middle L:90% state of the art stuff, you know, so 610 00:34:42.429 --> 00:34:45.349 A:middle L:90% they were very understanding and very supportive and I to 611 00:34:45.349 --> 00:34:47.969 A:middle L:90% this day appreciate what they did. Some thank you 612 00:34:49.340 --> 00:34:50.500 A:middle L:90% . Just want to follow up with one of the 613 00:34:50.500 --> 00:34:52.650 A:middle L:90% question because I think this is interesting. There's a 614 00:34:52.650 --> 00:34:59.360 A:middle L:90% lot of hiring back of former graduates. It seemed 615 00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:01.460 A:middle L:90% times I thought had a nice take on this. 616 00:35:01.460 --> 00:35:06.369 A:middle L:90% I'm curious how you would describe just that, you 617 00:35:06.369 --> 00:35:08.559 A:middle L:90% know, the educational model here is so special and 618 00:35:09.210 --> 00:35:12.139 A:middle L:90% that you want to, you want to carry it 619 00:35:12.139 --> 00:35:15.840 A:middle L:90% on continuing well, I would agree with hans on 620 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:17.719 A:middle L:90% that because I know we're often in accreditation visits and 621 00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:22.309 A:middle L:90% things they raise this as an issue. But if 622 00:35:22.309 --> 00:35:25.510 A:middle L:90% you have not experienced the educational model, it is 623 00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:29.780 A:middle L:90% very difficult to understand. You can talk about it 624 00:35:29.780 --> 00:35:30.579 A:middle L:90% , but it's not the same thing as having gone 625 00:35:30.579 --> 00:35:34.159 A:middle L:90% through it. And I think having are people who 626 00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:37.559 A:middle L:90% come back and have had experience elsewhere when it's possible 627 00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:40.030 A:middle L:90% , really does strengthen that and kind of and they 628 00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:43.659 A:middle L:90% redefine it in their own way, but it's still 629 00:35:43.659 --> 00:35:46.690 A:middle L:90% the central tenets of the pedagogy are preserved in the 630 00:35:46.690 --> 00:35:51.070 A:middle L:90% process. And I'm not sure that that's true in 631 00:35:51.070 --> 00:35:52.849 A:middle L:90% lots of other places. The only other thing I'd 632 00:35:52.849 --> 00:35:55.380 A:middle L:90% mention is that we did that I thought was it 633 00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:59.829 A:middle L:90% continues to be successful, is starting the center in 634 00:35:59.829 --> 00:36:04.320 A:middle L:90% alexandria. You know, that was fun. I 635 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.500 A:middle L:90% remember going up there with john Holt and I went 636 00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:10.610 A:middle L:90% up and remember we at least a townhouse for the 637 00:36:10.610 --> 00:36:15.070 A:middle L:90% faculty to stay in and we getting facilities. And 638 00:36:15.090 --> 00:36:17.250 A:middle L:90% then we came back and talked to the provost and 639 00:36:17.250 --> 00:36:20.440 A:middle L:90% he said, well, you know, what are 640 00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:22.579 A:middle L:90% you gonna need to get these facilities on us? 641 00:36:22.579 --> 00:36:23.159 A:middle L:90% We said, well, we already leased them. 642 00:36:23.630 --> 00:36:27.980 A:middle L:90% Uh huh. Yeah. And I did it ourselves 643 00:36:27.980 --> 00:36:30.650 A:middle L:90% . And but it's turned out to be a great 644 00:36:30.650 --> 00:36:35.199 A:middle L:90% asset because it gives our students a chance to live 645 00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:37.289 A:middle L:90% and work in an urban area as well as the 646 00:36:37.289 --> 00:36:39.670 A:middle L:90% environment here. And so both of those things have 647 00:36:39.670 --> 00:36:45.150 A:middle L:90% come together to add considerable strength to the educational experience 648 00:36:45.530 --> 00:36:46.750 A:middle L:90% for our graduates were very, I'm very proud of 649 00:36:47.130 --> 00:36:51.809 A:middle L:90% . So last question, I'll ask you, where 650 00:36:51.809 --> 00:36:54.530 A:middle L:90% do you see the school going in the future that 651 00:36:54.530 --> 00:37:00.710 A:middle L:90% architecture school that is a continuation of the same pedagogical 652 00:37:00.710 --> 00:37:07.239 A:middle L:90% model that was more focused on on technological or? 653 00:37:07.929 --> 00:37:10.590 A:middle L:90% Well, I think two things 1 is the need 654 00:37:10.590 --> 00:37:15.690 A:middle L:90% for critical thinking and creative thinking is not going to 655 00:37:15.690 --> 00:37:19.300 A:middle L:90% go away in. The basic structure of the human 656 00:37:19.300 --> 00:37:22.309 A:middle L:90% brain hasn't changed that much in the last couple of 657 00:37:22.309 --> 00:37:25.250 A:middle L:90% 1000 years, You know, so that's that's set 658 00:37:25.829 --> 00:37:30.340 A:middle L:90% those skills is going to be necessary. The questions 659 00:37:30.349 --> 00:37:35.119 A:middle L:90% of society that motivate the inquiry in the desire for 660 00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.349 A:middle L:90% action and some solutions are going to change over time 661 00:37:38.030 --> 00:37:42.610 A:middle L:90% and increasingly, because of the energy problems and other 662 00:37:42.619 --> 00:37:45.840 A:middle L:90% environmental problems and things, the solutions are going to 663 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.380 A:middle L:90% be very different than what we envisioned, particularly with 664 00:37:49.380 --> 00:37:52.960 A:middle L:90% regard to technology and materials, to looking at life 665 00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.559 A:middle L:90% cycle costing of buildings, the total energetic models that 666 00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:59.329 A:middle L:90% look at the not only what the building consumes but 667 00:37:59.329 --> 00:38:00.250 A:middle L:90% the material, the energy it took to create the 668 00:38:00.250 --> 00:38:06.590 A:middle L:90% building itself and then dealing with the changing patterns of 669 00:38:06.590 --> 00:38:08.820 A:middle L:90% development and urbanization. So they're going to require us 670 00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:13.869 A:middle L:90% to rethink how we practice architecture and planet. In 671 00:38:13.869 --> 00:38:15.550 A:middle L:90% fact the whole practice model is going to change, 672 00:38:16.030 --> 00:38:21.179 A:middle L:90% but it's not going to replace the ability to think 673 00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:23.750 A:middle L:90% creatively to be able to synthesize the critical information you 674 00:38:23.750 --> 00:38:27.039 A:middle L:90% need at the time and the desire to make a 675 00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:29.599 A:middle L:90% contribution to society. So you really you have to 676 00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:34.170 A:middle L:90% be both steadfast and your desire and flexible in your 677 00:38:34.179 --> 00:38:38.320 A:middle L:90% capacity to implement it. Perfect. Okay. Uh 678 00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:40.960 A:middle L:90% huh. Super excited and happy.