WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:06.610 A:middle L:90% so if you will just tell us your name and 2 00:00:06.610 --> 00:00:08.869 A:middle L:90% where you're at and just a little bit of biographical 3 00:00:08.869 --> 00:00:12.779 A:middle L:90% information to get us started, okay. Dave Johnson 4 00:00:12.779 --> 00:00:17.239 A:middle L:90% . I'm a curator's distinguished professor at the University of 5 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:23.280 A:middle L:90% Missouri in Columbia, Missouri. I've been I've had 6 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:28.320 A:middle L:90% previous positions at at the Pennsylvania State University and the 7 00:00:28.329 --> 00:00:31.949 A:middle L:90% University of Colorado in Denver and University of North Carolina 8 00:00:31.949 --> 00:00:36.429 A:middle L:90% , Greensboro. Ironically enough, it was with a 9 00:00:36.429 --> 00:00:39.929 A:middle L:90% part time job. I was undergraduate at the University 10 00:00:39.929 --> 00:00:42.579 A:middle L:90% of Delaware, working my way through school. I 11 00:00:42.579 --> 00:00:45.060 A:middle L:90% worked summers and worked during the year and worked in 12 00:00:45.060 --> 00:00:48.000 A:middle L:90% the library, worked in registration, so on those 13 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:51.829 A:middle L:90% became somewhat boring. So one day I respond to 14 00:00:51.829 --> 00:00:54.539 A:middle L:90% an advertisement in the placement office for a job of 15 00:00:54.539 --> 00:00:58.500 A:middle L:90% a television cameraman. Uh huh. And for the 16 00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:02.310 A:middle L:90% Educational Television Network, we were producing a lot of 17 00:01:02.310 --> 00:01:04.980 A:middle L:90% educational television programming in those days. Mainly courses official 18 00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:08.980 A:middle L:90% formal courses, way different setup. We used to 19 00:01:08.980 --> 00:01:11.459 A:middle L:90% have a big studio. 15,000 lots of lights, 20 00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:15.459 A:middle L:90% um, two inch quadruple x tape, uh, 21 00:01:15.469 --> 00:01:18.299 A:middle L:90% you know, control room, the whole thing like 22 00:01:18.299 --> 00:01:21.219 A:middle L:90% that. I did lighting. I did television camera 23 00:01:21.219 --> 00:01:25.819 A:middle L:90% work. I did directing a got involved More video 24 00:01:25.819 --> 00:01:29.099 A:middle L:90% work with Television Repertory Workshop, and we started a 25 00:01:29.099 --> 00:01:32.170 A:middle L:90% campus radio station. So I became kind of a 26 00:01:32.170 --> 00:01:34.920 A:middle L:90% media hog as it were, and had a good 27 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:38.290 A:middle L:90% friend and a mentor at the university there who had 28 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:42.680 A:middle L:90% just two, received a master's in educational media. 29 00:01:42.689 --> 00:01:46.260 A:middle L:90% And so I thought that was a pretty cool nothing 30 00:01:46.260 --> 00:01:49.780 A:middle L:90% to do. I knew that ultimately that I would 31 00:01:49.780 --> 00:01:53.950 A:middle L:90% need, uh, some educational experience because I was 32 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:56.700 A:middle L:90% my undergraduate degree. Of all things was in finance 33 00:01:56.700 --> 00:02:00.159 A:middle L:90% , had having nothing to do but with with media 34 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:01.500 A:middle L:90% . But so I I went off and got a 35 00:02:01.510 --> 00:02:05.819 A:middle L:90% masters in elementary education and taught for two years, 36 00:02:05.829 --> 00:02:08.539 A:middle L:90% uh, as an elementary middle school reading language arts 37 00:02:08.539 --> 00:02:14.659 A:middle L:90% teacher all the time continuing to work on, uh 38 00:02:14.669 --> 00:02:16.530 A:middle L:90% , media projects and also beginning to take courses in 39 00:02:16.530 --> 00:02:21.389 A:middle L:90% psychology, which I'd never had. As an undergraduate 40 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:24.930 A:middle L:90% in the middle of my master's program, I sort 41 00:02:24.930 --> 00:02:28.120 A:middle L:90% of became acquainted with the job of a professor and 42 00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:30.349 A:middle L:90% thought that might be a really neat thing to do 43 00:02:30.740 --> 00:02:36.099 A:middle L:90% . And so I, after my complete my master's 44 00:02:36.099 --> 00:02:38.729 A:middle L:90% degree and then working for a couple of years as 45 00:02:38.729 --> 00:02:40.560 A:middle L:90% a teacher, decided to enroll in a doctoral program 46 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:46.520 A:middle L:90% at Temple University in Philadelphia, where I began studies 47 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:47.409 A:middle L:90% . I took a year off from that program to 48 00:02:47.409 --> 00:02:52.460 A:middle L:90% work on an educational television program for the Office of 49 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.930 A:middle L:90% Migrant Education in New Jersey during television product, primarily 50 00:02:55.930 --> 00:03:00.090 A:middle L:90% television production, uh, and then went back and 51 00:03:00.090 --> 00:03:06.830 A:middle L:90% pursued my my remainder of my doctorate at Temple University 52 00:03:06.830 --> 00:03:08.539 A:middle L:90% . And so those days were really quite different. 53 00:03:08.550 --> 00:03:12.599 A:middle L:90% Uh, those were the days of media, media 54 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:15.419 A:middle L:90% studies and media comparisons. We were looking at a 55 00:03:15.430 --> 00:03:20.169 A:middle L:90% lot of television work, educational, television, work 56 00:03:20.180 --> 00:03:22.599 A:middle L:90% . Radio is still a little bit in. Their 57 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:25.620 A:middle L:90% films were being used a little bit, but the 58 00:03:25.629 --> 00:03:30.360 A:middle L:90% dominant media and those particular days was educational television. 59 00:03:30.210 --> 00:03:36.009 A:middle L:90% And so I worked with that through that for considerable 60 00:03:36.009 --> 00:03:38.860 A:middle L:90% period of time. After graduating, I took a 61 00:03:38.860 --> 00:03:42.250 A:middle L:90% job at the University of North Carolina Greensboro and a 62 00:03:42.250 --> 00:03:45.719 A:middle L:90% library science and educational technology department, and one of 63 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:47.379 A:middle L:90% the reasons I got the job was they wanted someone 64 00:03:47.379 --> 00:03:52.479 A:middle L:90% to teach educational television, which I had done extensively 65 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:54.810 A:middle L:90% . But, uh, in the early days, 66 00:03:54.810 --> 00:03:59.389 A:middle L:90% actually, I started doing a lot of text design 67 00:03:59.389 --> 00:04:02.349 A:middle L:90% research. Um, probably because it was cheap. 68 00:04:02.939 --> 00:04:05.389 A:middle L:90% All you needed was a mimeograph machine and or a 69 00:04:05.389 --> 00:04:09.639 A:middle L:90% Xerox machine and you could actually administer, uh, 70 00:04:09.650 --> 00:04:12.129 A:middle L:90% lots of treat, different treatments. I I suppose 71 00:04:12.129 --> 00:04:16.029 A:middle L:90% I was born empiricist. I started doing empirical studies 72 00:04:16.029 --> 00:04:19.040 A:middle L:90% almost immediately, continue to do a little bit of 73 00:04:19.050 --> 00:04:24.660 A:middle L:90% of video work and video research, but mainly moved 74 00:04:24.939 --> 00:04:28.879 A:middle L:90% over into more instructional design, text design, kinds 75 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.329 A:middle L:90% of research, sort of in that period of time 76 00:04:31.329 --> 00:04:33.500 A:middle L:90% , I suppose. I, you know, I 77 00:04:33.500 --> 00:04:36.170 A:middle L:90% learned that I was always a constructivist and always, 78 00:04:36.180 --> 00:04:39.600 A:middle L:90% uh, interested more in the kinds of things that 79 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.250 A:middle L:90% people do with media rather than from media. The 80 00:04:43.259 --> 00:04:45.329 A:middle L:90% study that I did one of my first studies I 81 00:04:45.329 --> 00:04:46.240 A:middle L:90% did at the University of North Carolina, Greensboro is 82 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:49.819 A:middle L:90% looking at the effects of video self confrontation. Look 83 00:04:49.819 --> 00:04:54.029 A:middle L:90% at yourself on video for a period of time and 84 00:04:54.029 --> 00:04:56.850 A:middle L:90% the effect on self concept and got some wildly, 85 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:00.379 A:middle L:90% uh, significant results. Uh, my early career 86 00:05:00.389 --> 00:05:02.660 A:middle L:90% was a little slow in getting started publishing, although 87 00:05:02.660 --> 00:05:05.509 A:middle L:90% I have always been a writer. And so I 88 00:05:05.509 --> 00:05:08.959 A:middle L:90% started I started doing some publishing. I was not 89 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:12.040 A:middle L:90% mentored, uh, in my doctoral program, nearly 90 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:14.089 A:middle L:90% as well as what we do for students now in 91 00:05:14.089 --> 00:05:16.290 A:middle L:90% terms of the publication process. However, in those 92 00:05:16.290 --> 00:05:19.600 A:middle L:90% days, it wasn't as imperative. Nowadays, if 93 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.160 A:middle L:90% you want to be successful in academia, either published 94 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.860 A:middle L:90% or literally or you perish. And so, um 95 00:05:27.540 --> 00:05:30.379 A:middle L:90% , I, you know, continue to do a 96 00:05:30.379 --> 00:05:33.439 A:middle L:90% little bit of research on video as a self as 97 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.160 A:middle L:90% a modelling and self confrontation tool, which was really 98 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:40.899 A:middle L:90% , really fascinating stuff. But then again moved move 99 00:05:40.899 --> 00:05:44.230 A:middle L:90% more directly into the text design research where I published 100 00:05:44.230 --> 00:05:46.759 A:middle L:90% a couple of books and conducted a number of studies 101 00:05:47.139 --> 00:05:50.560 A:middle L:90% . So our next question is, could you please 102 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:56.500 A:middle L:90% describe how your interests and aspirations have evolved and changed 103 00:05:56.620 --> 00:05:59.680 A:middle L:90% ? Right. Okay, um, that was kind 104 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:01.990 A:middle L:90% of that's an interesting question. Again, I started 105 00:06:01.990 --> 00:06:04.980 A:middle L:90% doing the text design research and doing, um, 106 00:06:04.990 --> 00:06:10.850 A:middle L:90% uh, doing more traditional instructional design work and trying 107 00:06:10.850 --> 00:06:14.949 A:middle L:90% to learn learn the field of instructional design better than 108 00:06:14.949 --> 00:06:17.759 A:middle L:90% I had been taught. Um, and I moved 109 00:06:17.769 --> 00:06:23.709 A:middle L:90% . Um, I suppose I moved well again most 110 00:06:23.709 --> 00:06:25.870 A:middle L:90% of the 19 eighties I I spent with the text 111 00:06:25.870 --> 00:06:27.990 A:middle L:90% design research, and in the late 19 eighties we 112 00:06:27.990 --> 00:06:30.259 A:middle L:90% had these funny little machines called microcomputers that began to 113 00:06:30.269 --> 00:06:34.160 A:middle L:90% show up in the in the building. We actually 114 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:38.300 A:middle L:90% started out with some old CPM machines, saw less 115 00:06:38.300 --> 00:06:41.910 A:middle L:90% 100 microbus machines that had came stuck with four kilobytes 116 00:06:41.910 --> 00:06:44.399 A:middle L:90% of Ram and four kilobytes of Ram. And we 117 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.110 A:middle L:90% can install for four kilobyte RAM board so we could 118 00:06:47.110 --> 00:06:49.519 A:middle L:90% bump it up to 16 kilobytes and thought we were 119 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:51.480 A:middle L:90% pretty invincible. There wasn't much we couldn't do with 120 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:56.930 A:middle L:90% 16 kilobytes, which which is humorous, obviously, 121 00:06:56.930 --> 00:07:01.000 A:middle L:90% in today's in today's. But that began you certainly 122 00:07:01.009 --> 00:07:03.769 A:middle L:90% computers change the nature of our discipline. A great 123 00:07:03.769 --> 00:07:09.410 A:middle L:90% deal of forced the issue. I designed various curricula 124 00:07:09.410 --> 00:07:13.389 A:middle L:90% around how to use microcomputers. I developed, like 125 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:15.430 A:middle L:90% 20 to 1 hour one credit hour courses to meet 126 00:07:15.430 --> 00:07:17.860 A:middle L:90% the needs of a whole wide variety of people within 127 00:07:17.860 --> 00:07:21.660 A:middle L:90% the college. It was really at that point that 128 00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:26.009 A:middle L:90% I began to think about the computer not as a 129 00:07:26.019 --> 00:07:29.240 A:middle L:90% teaching medium, because in the early days of computer 130 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:30.870 A:middle L:90% race instruction, that was that was the norm. 131 00:07:30.870 --> 00:07:35.100 A:middle L:90% We tried to embed the knowledge in the computer and 132 00:07:35.110 --> 00:07:38.290 A:middle L:90% and asked the computer to do the teaching Well, 133 00:07:38.300 --> 00:07:41.750 A:middle L:90% computers are really lousy teachers. Uh, and so 134 00:07:41.750 --> 00:07:44.079 A:middle L:90% I began to think about better uses and sort of 135 00:07:44.089 --> 00:07:46.250 A:middle L:90% , uh, in the in the mid to I 136 00:07:46.250 --> 00:07:47.279 A:middle L:90% guess, the mid 19 eighties too late, 19 137 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:49.279 A:middle L:90% eighties, sort of, uh, came up with 138 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:53.540 A:middle L:90% this notion of mine tools that compelled my work for 139 00:07:53.540 --> 00:07:56.240 A:middle L:90% a number of years. The idea of using computer 140 00:07:56.250 --> 00:08:01.860 A:middle L:90% off the shelf computer tools as knowledge, representation tools 141 00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:05.589 A:middle L:90% , thinking tools, critical thinking tools. Uh, 142 00:08:05.589 --> 00:08:07.579 A:middle L:90% and so I ended up publishing a three different editions 143 00:08:07.579 --> 00:08:11.800 A:middle L:90% of, uh, books on mine tools, and 144 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:13.040 A:middle L:90% we did lots of research, and I went around 145 00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:18.310 A:middle L:90% preaching that particular gospel all over the world, and 146 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:20.870 A:middle L:90% I still think it's a powerful medium. Unfortunately, 147 00:08:20.870 --> 00:08:22.790 A:middle L:90% in the late 19 nineties, this thing called the 148 00:08:22.790 --> 00:08:26.560 A:middle L:90% Internet came along, and that's that's sort of that 149 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:30.199 A:middle L:90% sort of took the interest away from that sort of 150 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:31.259 A:middle L:90% thing. People now are. I mean, certainly 151 00:08:31.269 --> 00:08:35.429 A:middle L:90% . Certainly virtually everything we do is so Internet based 152 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:39.389 A:middle L:90% , with particularly with Internet, too. And soon 153 00:08:39.389 --> 00:08:43.129 A:middle L:90% , Internet three. Um, we're looking at how 154 00:08:43.129 --> 00:08:48.860 A:middle L:90% to to to utilize that that particular technology more effectively 155 00:08:48.740 --> 00:08:52.159 A:middle L:90% . Uh, and it wasn't until the mid 19 156 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.289 A:middle L:90% nineties, when I was at Penn State teaching there 157 00:08:54.289 --> 00:08:56.799 A:middle L:90% that had dawned on me. That and the entire 158 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.000 A:middle L:90% instructional design literature. There was virtually no discussion of 159 00:09:01.009 --> 00:09:03.669 A:middle L:90% problem solving. I think in all of the instructional 160 00:09:03.669 --> 00:09:07.370 A:middle L:90% design textbooks, there was perhaps one chapter devoted to 161 00:09:07.370 --> 00:09:11.899 A:middle L:90% problem solving. And so for whatever reason and whatever 162 00:09:11.899 --> 00:09:13.980 A:middle L:90% compelled me, I don't know. But except the 163 00:09:13.980 --> 00:09:16.539 A:middle L:90% absence, I suppose, of any literature in that 164 00:09:16.539 --> 00:09:18.539 A:middle L:90% area, I decided that that would be something I 165 00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:22.879 A:middle L:90% would I would tackle. And so, for literally 166 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:26.629 A:middle L:90% the past 15 or so years, I've I've virtually 167 00:09:26.629 --> 00:09:30.590 A:middle L:90% all of my research has been focusing around what problem 168 00:09:30.590 --> 00:09:33.389 A:middle L:90% solving is what kinds of problems there are, how 169 00:09:33.389 --> 00:09:37.159 A:middle L:90% to support, engage and assess different kinds of problem 170 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:41.789 A:middle L:90% solving. And so that's that's That's probably gonna be 171 00:09:41.789 --> 00:09:43.279 A:middle L:90% my legacy to the field if there is one, 172 00:09:43.289 --> 00:09:48.740 A:middle L:90% because I've pushed. Although although one of the other 173 00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:50.929 A:middle L:90% phenomenon that occurred beginning in the early 19 nineties, 174 00:09:50.929 --> 00:09:54.250 A:middle L:90% my my friend and colleague Tom Duffy from Indiana University 175 00:09:54.250 --> 00:09:56.919 A:middle L:90% and I started pushing the instructional design field in a 176 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:00.590 A:middle L:90% constructivist direction, we had a lot of time. 177 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:01.259 A:middle L:90% We had a lot of fun perturbing the field, 178 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:03.929 A:middle L:90% and and you could tell, over a period of 179 00:10:03.929 --> 00:10:07.340 A:middle L:90% a decade that the issues and the topics of they 180 00:10:07.340 --> 00:10:13.610 A:middle L:90% had conferences like a C T. Was rapidly changing 181 00:10:13.620 --> 00:10:16.710 A:middle L:90% the nature of the questions that were being asked rather 182 00:10:16.710 --> 00:10:20.429 A:middle L:90% than looking at instructional methods or instructional media. We 183 00:10:20.429 --> 00:10:22.360 A:middle L:90% were beginning to look more at not only computers, 184 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.450 A:middle L:90% but all technologies as tools for helping students, you 185 00:10:26.450 --> 00:10:28.759 A:middle L:90% know, construct their understanding of the world. And 186 00:10:28.769 --> 00:10:31.940 A:middle L:90% so that kind of orientation still compels me. Yeah 187 00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:35.620 A:middle L:90% , you know, in the in the seventies, 188 00:10:35.620 --> 00:10:37.059 A:middle L:90% it was we were looking at media and looking at 189 00:10:37.059 --> 00:10:43.009 A:middle L:90% the effectiveness of media as conveyors, the dominant paradigm 190 00:10:43.009 --> 00:10:45.940 A:middle L:90% than was what we call message design the ideas. 191 00:10:45.940 --> 00:10:48.960 A:middle L:90% And we could design a message more effectively to communicate 192 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:52.639 A:middle L:90% an idea than students would learn better. Uh, 193 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:56.299 A:middle L:90% and that's what we are essentially were doing was trying 194 00:10:56.299 --> 00:10:58.889 A:middle L:90% to refine the age old method of direct instruction where 195 00:10:58.889 --> 00:11:01.480 A:middle L:90% the teacher tells you about the world. Well, 196 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:03.889 A:middle L:90% the teacher tells you more effectively using a variety of 197 00:11:03.899 --> 00:11:09.570 A:middle L:90% instructional strategies than, uh than the effectiveness of the 198 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:11.860 A:middle L:90% learning. What should be more should be more effective 199 00:11:11.860 --> 00:11:15.019 A:middle L:90% . I began to think a lot with the mind 200 00:11:15.019 --> 00:11:18.269 A:middle L:90% tools work about learning strategies rather than instructional strategies. 201 00:11:18.269 --> 00:11:24.110 A:middle L:90% What can the learner do to better understand things, 202 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:28.549 A:middle L:90% irrespective of what's being taught? And so those media 203 00:11:28.549 --> 00:11:33.350 A:middle L:90% days, uh, the message design media days really 204 00:11:33.350 --> 00:11:35.519 A:middle L:90% pretty much, I think, went through the 19 205 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.399 A:middle L:90% eighties, and then it was really beginning in the 206 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:41.970 A:middle L:90% early 19 nineties that we begin and with the advent 207 00:11:41.970 --> 00:11:45.129 A:middle L:90% of the microcomputer as a more of a personal tool 208 00:11:45.230 --> 00:11:46.480 A:middle L:90% that students could use that we began thinking in a 209 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:50.799 A:middle L:90% much more constructivist direction. And clearly I think a 210 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:56.360 A:middle L:90% lot of people are are convinced that in fact knowledge 211 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:00.460 A:middle L:90% is constructed whether or not you believe it's true. 212 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:03.049 A:middle L:90% The major misconceptions that have occurred, of course, 213 00:12:03.049 --> 00:12:07.779 A:middle L:90% is relates to the notion of constructivist instruction, which 214 00:12:07.779 --> 00:12:09.840 A:middle L:90% is an oxymoron. Uh, yeah, you know 215 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.899 A:middle L:90% , you people, regardless of what happens regardless of 216 00:12:13.899 --> 00:12:16.639 A:middle L:90% what you do, people will construct whatever meaning they 217 00:12:16.649 --> 00:12:20.620 A:middle L:90% can from a particular situation. Oftentimes, irrespective of 218 00:12:20.620 --> 00:12:22.809 A:middle L:90% what it is you do to them. Uh, 219 00:12:22.820 --> 00:12:26.350 A:middle L:90% they've got their own personal experiences and personal needs, 220 00:12:26.350 --> 00:12:28.490 A:middle L:90% and they're going to make sense out of out of 221 00:12:28.490 --> 00:12:31.350 A:middle L:90% what they experience in their own way, regardless of 222 00:12:31.350 --> 00:12:33.759 A:middle L:90% what we do. Uh and so I think, 223 00:12:33.769 --> 00:12:37.039 A:middle L:90% you know, with the with the advent of the 224 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:41.279 A:middle L:90% Internet and sort of ubiquitous sources of knowledge or excuse 225 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:43.549 A:middle L:90% me, ubiquitous sources of information. And now, 226 00:12:43.549 --> 00:12:48.710 A:middle L:90% with the new mobile technologies, you've got ubiquitous access 227 00:12:48.710 --> 00:12:50.990 A:middle L:90% to information. I think the nature of the of 228 00:12:50.990 --> 00:12:56.029 A:middle L:90% the questions are changing substantially. And certainly with the 229 00:12:56.029 --> 00:13:00.370 A:middle L:90% advent of social networking, really, as as a 230 00:13:00.370 --> 00:13:03.240 A:middle L:90% communication tool, uh, is having profound effects, 231 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.610 A:middle L:90% I think, on on the world witnessed. The 232 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:11.259 A:middle L:90% recent revolutions in Northern Africa, which are which were 233 00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:16.450 A:middle L:90% mediated by social networking, just shows the phenomenal impact 234 00:13:18.340 --> 00:13:22.700 A:middle L:90% . Um, and so I think there are other 235 00:13:22.700 --> 00:13:24.860 A:middle L:90% issues that are possibly good or possibly bad. I 236 00:13:24.860 --> 00:13:28.669 A:middle L:90% don't regard around social networking. Um, that are 237 00:13:28.669 --> 00:13:31.389 A:middle L:90% not necessarily. I mean, I think I'm concerned 238 00:13:31.389 --> 00:13:37.139 A:middle L:90% about the social psychology of identity and and responsibility and 239 00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:41.360 A:middle L:90% issues like that in certain social networking environments. I 240 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:48.580 A:middle L:90% think technology is Technology has provided instantaneous access to two 241 00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:50.320 A:middle L:90% different, uh, different support systems, like mom 242 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:54.299 A:middle L:90% or Dad or friends or whatever. And that, 243 00:13:54.309 --> 00:13:56.519 A:middle L:90% unfortunately, has made a lot of people unwilling or 244 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:00.200 A:middle L:90% unable to actually take responsibility for their own activities in 245 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:01.690 A:middle L:90% their own charge. And that can have fairly serious 246 00:14:01.690 --> 00:14:07.889 A:middle L:90% impact. But But the reality is that the Internet 247 00:14:07.889 --> 00:14:13.039 A:middle L:90% and social networking has have become so dominant that it's 248 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:15.879 A:middle L:90% going to change our society in a in a significant 249 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.990 A:middle L:90% way, and that's probably going to be the future 250 00:14:18.990 --> 00:14:20.740 A:middle L:90% of research for some time to come. Heaven knows 251 00:14:20.740 --> 00:14:24.559 A:middle L:90% what else You know what else may come along? 252 00:14:24.570 --> 00:14:28.009 A:middle L:90% I think a lot of people are looking longingly toward 253 00:14:28.009 --> 00:14:33.960 A:middle L:90% the potential of virtual reality for for engaging students in 254 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.850 A:middle L:90% ways in which ways that we otherwise cannot do now 255 00:14:37.860 --> 00:14:41.129 A:middle L:90% . Phenomenal impact. I still think we're an integration 256 00:14:41.129 --> 00:14:43.460 A:middle L:90% or two away from being able to really do that 257 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:48.250 A:middle L:90% sort of thing effectively. But I suspect within the 258 00:14:48.250 --> 00:14:50.139 A:middle L:90% next couple of decades we're going, we're going to 259 00:14:50.139 --> 00:14:52.929 A:middle L:90% see some really, really powerful environments. Well, 260 00:14:52.940 --> 00:14:56.139 A:middle L:90% you know, in the early days of structural design 261 00:14:56.139 --> 00:14:58.370 A:middle L:90% , I was studying very traditional structural design. Actually 262 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:00.379 A:middle L:90% , Dave Merrill was one of my heroes. I 263 00:15:00.379 --> 00:15:03.200 A:middle L:90% studied his stuff and actually had working models of some 264 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:07.259 A:middle L:90% of his instructional designed to ideas before he did, 265 00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:09.840 A:middle L:90% uh, so again, it was It's a very 266 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:15.440 A:middle L:90% coherent theory of instructional design. But again, really 267 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:16.340 A:middle L:90% , In the early 19 nineties, I began to 268 00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:20.110 A:middle L:90% move in a very strong constructivist direction, which sort 269 00:15:20.110 --> 00:15:22.389 A:middle L:90% of, you know, took me off in a 270 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:26.779 A:middle L:90% substantively different tangent than Dave's work or traditional instructional design 271 00:15:26.779 --> 00:15:30.259 A:middle L:90% work. Uh, but so much of my work 272 00:15:30.259 --> 00:15:31.970 A:middle L:90% has really been I think, instructional. A lot 273 00:15:31.970 --> 00:15:35.350 A:middle L:90% of The books that I've written have been basically focused 274 00:15:35.350 --> 00:15:39.559 A:middle L:90% around teaching students in the instructional design community things that 275 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:41.720 A:middle L:90% had not been articulated yet. I've done a couple 276 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:45.289 A:middle L:90% of additions of task analysis book, which is really 277 00:15:45.289 --> 00:15:46.159 A:middle L:90% the heart and soul of any kind of design. 278 00:15:46.539 --> 00:15:50.000 A:middle L:90% Unfortunately, it's a skill that's underdeveloped, I think 279 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.190 A:middle L:90% in most programs, and so students ultimately end up 280 00:15:54.190 --> 00:15:56.610 A:middle L:90% learning one or maybe two methods of instructional design. 281 00:15:56.620 --> 00:16:00.590 A:middle L:90% So which means that you know their instructions all gonna 282 00:16:00.590 --> 00:16:03.500 A:middle L:90% look, if you only have one method of analyzing 283 00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:06.230 A:middle L:90% learning, then their methods, all their methods gonna 284 00:16:06.230 --> 00:16:08.600 A:middle L:90% look the same. Um, I tell my students 285 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.190 A:middle L:90% all the time if you aren't able to articulate how 286 00:16:11.190 --> 00:16:14.210 A:middle L:90% your learners are supposed to think and you really have 287 00:16:14.210 --> 00:16:17.639 A:middle L:90% no business designing instruction for him. Uh, that's 288 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.250 A:middle L:90% not a very, you know, satisfying response for 289 00:16:21.250 --> 00:16:22.950 A:middle L:90% them, but I mean, so those kinds of 290 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.730 A:middle L:90% those kinds of skills. But again, the the 291 00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:29.269 A:middle L:90% constructive stuff really took me through most of the 19 292 00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:32.649 A:middle L:90% nineties, and then I became focused on problem solving 293 00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:37.049 A:middle L:90% as certainly one of the ultimate constructive activities. I 294 00:16:37.049 --> 00:16:38.419 A:middle L:90% mean, when you have a problem to solve and 295 00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:41.710 A:middle L:90% you've got, it's imperative that you you construct and 296 00:16:41.710 --> 00:16:45.940 A:middle L:90% understanding representation in some understanding of the problem before you 297 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:49.190 A:middle L:90% were able to solve it. And so, uh 298 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:55.039 A:middle L:90% , when you look at the many quote unquote constructivist 299 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.850 A:middle L:90% innovations, the simulations and the games and the, 300 00:16:56.860 --> 00:17:02.649 A:middle L:90% uh, the multi user inverse, uh, immersive 301 00:17:02.649 --> 00:17:04.160 A:middle L:90% environments and all of those kinds of activities at the 302 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.720 A:middle L:90% root of all of those is problem solving. That's 303 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:10.470 A:middle L:90% what they're doing in those environments. And then I 304 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.990 A:middle L:90% began to work a lot with engineers and engineering education 305 00:17:12.990 --> 00:17:17.440 A:middle L:90% , and we've done a lot of research in that 306 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.160 A:middle L:90% field. And, uh, when you go out 307 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.730 A:middle L:90% and analyze what people do, what engineers do, 308 00:17:22.730 --> 00:17:25.779 A:middle L:90% but virtually what anyone does is solve problems. Nobody 309 00:17:25.779 --> 00:17:29.119 A:middle L:90% gets paid for writing an examination booklets. Yeah, 310 00:17:29.130 --> 00:17:30.829 A:middle L:90% In fact, that's how we continue to assess student 311 00:17:30.829 --> 00:17:34.970 A:middle L:90% understanding, which is unfortunate. But so, you 312 00:17:34.970 --> 00:17:37.990 A:middle L:90% know, schools and universities, I think, especially 313 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:44.140 A:middle L:90% do a really woefully poor job of actually engaging student 314 00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:48.710 A:middle L:90% in problems all anyway, my interest in problem solving 315 00:17:48.710 --> 00:17:51.910 A:middle L:90% really from a cognitive perspective, though, has sort 316 00:17:51.910 --> 00:17:53.880 A:middle L:90% of transmogrified over under problem based learning. So we 317 00:17:53.890 --> 00:17:57.289 A:middle L:90% were working with a number of entities, organizations and 318 00:17:57.289 --> 00:18:03.289 A:middle L:90% institutions around around trying to embed or engage problem based 319 00:18:03.289 --> 00:18:07.950 A:middle L:90% learning. And they're in there in their education, 320 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.980 A:middle L:90% very problematic kind of effort because students have learned to 321 00:18:11.990 --> 00:18:15.539 A:middle L:90% do to do traditional school. And when you ask 322 00:18:15.539 --> 00:18:18.690 A:middle L:90% them to start solving problems that that really violates all 323 00:18:18.690 --> 00:18:22.220 A:middle L:90% their scripts for for learning all their schemas are about 324 00:18:22.220 --> 00:18:23.069 A:middle L:90% how do I study for the test? How do 325 00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:26.579 A:middle L:90% we get the right answer on the test and and 326 00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:29.789 A:middle L:90% then and then move on? So that's been a 327 00:18:29.789 --> 00:18:32.650 A:middle L:90% challenge and continues to be a challenge and will continue 328 00:18:32.650 --> 00:18:34.019 A:middle L:90% to be a challenge. Although, as I tell 329 00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:37.210 A:middle L:90% people all the time, I truly believe that problem 330 00:18:37.210 --> 00:18:40.920 A:middle L:90% based learning is the most significant pedagogical innovation in the 331 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:42.839 A:middle L:90% history of education. It's not sexy like computers or 332 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:48.190 A:middle L:90% technology, but but its substantive in terms of how 333 00:18:48.190 --> 00:18:49.670 A:middle L:90% learners are supposed to think. And that's really the 334 00:18:51.109 --> 00:18:52.829 A:middle L:90% That's the key to the whole thing. As far 335 00:18:52.829 --> 00:18:56.599 A:middle L:90% as I'm concerned, um, too many people have 336 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:59.390 A:middle L:90% always assumed, or I believe, I think believe 337 00:18:59.390 --> 00:19:02.980 A:middle L:90% that students learn from the technology and that's just simply 338 00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:04.730 A:middle L:90% not true. People learn from thinking, and if 339 00:19:04.730 --> 00:19:07.819 A:middle L:90% the technology can help people think better than so be 340 00:19:07.819 --> 00:19:12.700 A:middle L:90% it, At least that's my particular philosophy. Well 341 00:19:12.700 --> 00:19:15.329 A:middle L:90% , as I mentioned Dave Merrill earlier, I think 342 00:19:15.329 --> 00:19:17.859 A:middle L:90% he really is. I mean, in terms of 343 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:21.490 A:middle L:90% traditional theories of instructional design. His, I believe 344 00:19:21.490 --> 00:19:23.359 A:middle L:90% , has always been the most coherent. Uh, 345 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:27.160 A:middle L:90% I was also very always very enamored of very impressed 346 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:30.430 A:middle L:90% by the work of Gavriel Salomon at the University of 347 00:19:30.430 --> 00:19:33.880 A:middle L:90% Tel Aviv. Brilliant guy, done. He's done 348 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.880 A:middle L:90% just absolutely brilliant. Research has always been at the 349 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:41.549 A:middle L:90% forefront, I think of of, uh, of 350 00:19:41.549 --> 00:19:42.769 A:middle L:90% our field. And so, even though he's not 351 00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:47.160 A:middle L:90% normally associated with with the field of instructional design that 352 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:48.390 A:middle L:90% closely, I think he's probably done as much or 353 00:19:48.390 --> 00:19:52.869 A:middle L:90% more for for the field is as, uh as 354 00:19:52.869 --> 00:19:56.529 A:middle L:90% anyone. Um, after that, you know, 355 00:19:56.529 --> 00:20:00.779 A:middle L:90% I I began to read widely and situated learning, 356 00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:03.849 A:middle L:90% and I think the work of Jean Lave has been 357 00:20:03.859 --> 00:20:07.549 A:middle L:90% Barbara Rogoff has been particularly influential in my thinking. 358 00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:11.970 A:middle L:90% Uh, Jim, watch at Think you should wash 359 00:20:11.970 --> 00:20:15.960 A:middle L:90% you in ST Louis right around down the road. 360 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.660 A:middle L:90% People like that, I think, have been, 361 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:22.589 A:middle L:90% But also then by you know, by the 19 362 00:20:22.589 --> 00:20:26.859 A:middle L:90% nineties I had actually identified my own agenda and began 363 00:20:26.859 --> 00:20:32.779 A:middle L:90% to pursue it and hopefully somewhat influenced myself. But 364 00:20:32.779 --> 00:20:33.619 A:middle L:90% but historically the you know, those are some of 365 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:37.009 A:middle L:90% the people I think that have really been. Bob 366 00:20:37.009 --> 00:20:38.970 A:middle L:90% Hynek are very one of the old guys in the 367 00:20:38.970 --> 00:20:42.559 A:middle L:90% field was also very influential. He I did a 368 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.170 A:middle L:90% philosophical paper in E. C T. J back 369 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:48.859 A:middle L:90% in the early 19 eighties, and Bob was even 370 00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:49.589 A:middle L:90% though he had no reason to. He was the 371 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:53.230 A:middle L:90% editor, the general for awhile. He really mentored 372 00:20:53.230 --> 00:20:55.890 A:middle L:90% me. In a way. We went through six 373 00:20:55.890 --> 00:20:56.769 A:middle L:90% or seven iterations on the paper, and he would 374 00:20:57.140 --> 00:21:00.789 A:middle L:90% . He would write these seven page longhand letters in 375 00:21:00.789 --> 00:21:03.569 A:middle L:90% response to my latest draft, and so we finally 376 00:21:03.569 --> 00:21:07.450 A:middle L:90% got it good enough to publish. So my hat's 377 00:21:07.450 --> 00:21:10.950 A:middle L:90% off to him, and it's certainly a number of 378 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:11.809 A:middle L:90% a number. I've had a number of friends and 379 00:21:11.809 --> 00:21:15.670 A:middle L:90% colleagues in the field who have on whom I've I've 380 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.980 A:middle L:90% lent leaned a little bit, but in terms of 381 00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:26.799 A:middle L:90% intellectual stimulation, I, most recently by buy more 382 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:30.670 A:middle L:90% by the Constructivist. I'm a big fan of a 383 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.150 A:middle L:90% woman named Deanna Coon at Teachers College in Colombia. 384 00:21:33.150 --> 00:21:36.410 A:middle L:90% She's done years and years and years of work on 385 00:21:36.420 --> 00:21:40.450 A:middle L:90% argumentation, just absolutely brilliant work. So, um 386 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.259 A:middle L:90% , and so many other colleagues from whom I've drawn 387 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:48.250 A:middle L:90% inspiration and work, but not in a really consistent 388 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:49.359 A:middle L:90% manner. Well, the thing I mean, obviously 389 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:53.220 A:middle L:90% the the only part of my career will be the 390 00:21:53.220 --> 00:21:56.250 A:middle L:90% field was still dominated by direct instruction. And so 391 00:21:56.250 --> 00:21:57.799 A:middle L:90% we were trying to figure out how to get it 392 00:21:57.809 --> 00:22:00.049 A:middle L:90% done. Better, uh, and that, you 393 00:22:00.049 --> 00:22:02.279 A:middle L:90% know, that was an important one. And I 394 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:03.759 A:middle L:90% and I again I chose text designed as a method 395 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:07.359 A:middle L:90% for doing that. I spent half a year at 396 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.430 A:middle L:90% the University of Kiel with a good friend of mine 397 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:11.289 A:middle L:90% , Jim Hartley, who was really one of the 398 00:22:11.289 --> 00:22:14.440 A:middle L:90% best known text design researchers in the in the world 399 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:15.019 A:middle L:90% . And we had a lot of fun doing doing 400 00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:18.250 A:middle L:90% research and, uh, hanging out at the pub 401 00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:22.849 A:middle L:90% . Uh, that was a good time, but 402 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:26.359 A:middle L:90% then, you know, But then my work beginning 403 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:27.759 A:middle L:90% in the early 19 nineties, really shifted into the 404 00:22:27.769 --> 00:22:30.769 A:middle L:90% sort of the constructivist direction. I think I think 405 00:22:30.769 --> 00:22:33.079 A:middle L:90% people, For a while I thought I had a 406 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:36.750 A:middle L:90% big C plastered on my chest or something. Not 407 00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:37.740 A:middle L:90% so it was really more. It was really more 408 00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:41.029 A:middle L:90% fun. I don't know, uh, and and 409 00:22:41.029 --> 00:22:45.099 A:middle L:90% the purpose was not to suggest an alternative or was 410 00:22:45.099 --> 00:22:48.019 A:middle L:90% the suggestion alternative but not a replacement? I think 411 00:22:48.019 --> 00:22:52.750 A:middle L:90% we still have these immature and dualistic debates about which 412 00:22:52.750 --> 00:22:55.309 A:middle L:90% model is better right now. It's direct instruction versus 413 00:22:55.309 --> 00:22:57.569 A:middle L:90% unguided instruction, which is both are really miss numbers 414 00:22:57.829 --> 00:23:02.079 A:middle L:90% . I think that kind of dualistic thinking, it's 415 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:07.700 A:middle L:90% really destructive of our field. Clearly, you know 416 00:23:07.710 --> 00:23:12.400 A:middle L:90% , the ability to accommodate multiple beliefs and multiple perspectives 417 00:23:12.410 --> 00:23:15.160 A:middle L:90% is, I think, actually important for any field 418 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.579 A:middle L:90% of endeavor. There's no there's no unified theory of 419 00:23:18.579 --> 00:23:21.400 A:middle L:90% learning. I think a lot of people have looked 420 00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:22.640 A:middle L:90% for that, and a lot of psychologists over the 421 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.509 A:middle L:90% years have promoted their particular theories. Is that this 422 00:23:26.509 --> 00:23:29.130 A:middle L:90% is, you know, this is the theory that 423 00:23:29.140 --> 00:23:30.559 A:middle L:90% that's that's all we need to know for how to 424 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.890 A:middle L:90% design good instruction. Well, that just doesn't exist 425 00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:37.599 A:middle L:90% because the variety of learning outcomes is so vast and 426 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:41.509 A:middle L:90% so diverse that there is no single method of instruction 427 00:23:41.509 --> 00:23:45.569 A:middle L:90% that can work. And a lot of people misinterpret 428 00:23:45.569 --> 00:23:48.920 A:middle L:90% my my beliefs as I'm totally against direct instruction, 429 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.089 A:middle L:90% which is just not true. I think there are 430 00:23:51.089 --> 00:23:53.730 A:middle L:90% times there are many times during during complex problem solving 431 00:23:53.730 --> 00:23:56.029 A:middle L:90% processes that I want to learn something and that's the 432 00:23:56.029 --> 00:23:59.170 A:middle L:90% teachable moment, you know, teach me how to 433 00:23:59.180 --> 00:24:00.049 A:middle L:90% do this now and you'll save me a lot of 434 00:24:00.049 --> 00:24:03.490 A:middle L:90% time, an effort. So, you know, 435 00:24:03.490 --> 00:24:08.240 A:middle L:90% I'm not advocating. I'm not advocating any particular methodology 436 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.220 A:middle L:90% . Even with the mind tools work, I said 437 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:12.880 A:middle L:90% , This is an alternative way of actually using computers 438 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:15.779 A:middle L:90% . It's not gonna save schools. Um, it's 439 00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:18.240 A:middle L:90% not going to change the nature of the course of 440 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.109 A:middle L:90% education, but but But in fact, it's a 441 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:22.970 A:middle L:90% It's a way of, I think, more productively 442 00:24:22.970 --> 00:24:26.859 A:middle L:90% and constructively using using the technologies that we have. 443 00:24:27.740 --> 00:24:32.279 A:middle L:90% And so, um, and clearly then, over 444 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.259 A:middle L:90% the last decade and a half, um, the 445 00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:38.200 A:middle L:90% Constructivist orientation has really kind of morphed into the problem 446 00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:41.670 A:middle L:90% solving stuff. And so I'm pretty much gonna ride 447 00:24:41.670 --> 00:24:45.349 A:middle L:90% that horse until the end of my career right now 448 00:24:45.940 --> 00:24:48.349 A:middle L:90% , largely because I think I've scratched the surface in 449 00:24:48.349 --> 00:24:52.140 A:middle L:90% terms of articulating a meta theory of problem solving. 450 00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:55.279 A:middle L:90% But I don't pretend that I, you know, 451 00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.559 A:middle L:90% no near enough. There's so much we don't know 452 00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:00.289 A:middle L:90% about problem solving, and there are so many unanswered 453 00:25:00.289 --> 00:25:03.359 A:middle L:90% questions, and the outcome is so important that, 454 00:25:03.369 --> 00:25:06.920 A:middle L:90% you know, there are literally thousands of studies that 455 00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:08.230 A:middle L:90% I can conceive of that really need to be done 456 00:25:08.230 --> 00:25:11.099 A:middle L:90% . And unfortunately, we have enough years to do 457 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:15.369 A:middle L:90% those interesting question. You know, I was sort 458 00:25:15.369 --> 00:25:19.190 A:middle L:90% of hope I haven't made again. Uh, but 459 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.029 A:middle L:90% I'm not sure. Probabilistic Lee, that's that. 460 00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:25.650 A:middle L:90% That's necessarily the case. I am actually very proud 461 00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:27.089 A:middle L:90% of the book I just published on Problem solving. 462 00:25:27.089 --> 00:25:30.079 A:middle L:90% I think it's sort of a compilation of the work 463 00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:33.920 A:middle L:90% I've done over the last 15 years. Couple with 464 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:36.940 A:middle L:90% that, I would say. I edited two versions 465 00:25:36.950 --> 00:25:38.670 A:middle L:90% of the Handbook of Research on our field. They 466 00:25:38.670 --> 00:25:44.130 A:middle L:90% were both large 1500 page tomes, which I pretty 467 00:25:44.130 --> 00:25:47.390 A:middle L:90% much single handedly took on both times. Uh, 468 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:48.910 A:middle L:90% and so they were, I think, in terms 469 00:25:48.910 --> 00:25:51.400 A:middle L:90% of in terms of contributions to the field, people 470 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.539 A:middle L:90% perhaps recognize those as the most important and quite legitimately 471 00:25:55.539 --> 00:25:59.210 A:middle L:90% . So, um, you know a number of 472 00:25:59.210 --> 00:26:02.170 A:middle L:90% other books that I've done, I think that I'm 473 00:26:02.170 --> 00:26:03.960 A:middle L:90% really proud of because their tools, their handbooks, 474 00:26:04.539 --> 00:26:08.349 A:middle L:90% I really, for some strange reason focused my career 475 00:26:08.349 --> 00:26:11.519 A:middle L:90% on handbooks. Basically teaching, you know, teaching 476 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:15.900 A:middle L:90% the field things. Barbara Grabowski and I wrote back 477 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:18.640 A:middle L:90% in the early 19 nineties wrote a handbook of individual 478 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.619 A:middle L:90% differences learning instruction. It's still quite a useful handbook 479 00:26:22.630 --> 00:26:25.559 A:middle L:90% , even though it's it's significantly dated by now. 480 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:29.250 A:middle L:90% But so for some reason, you know, utility 481 00:26:29.250 --> 00:26:30.789 A:middle L:90% has always sort of compelled me for whatever reason. 482 00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:33.880 A:middle L:90% So, you know, I suppose the hand. 483 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.099 A:middle L:90% But the big research handbooks are probably that which I 484 00:26:37.109 --> 00:26:41.509 A:middle L:90% perhaps will be most recognized for, I think the 485 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:44.180 A:middle L:90% research on problem solving the body of research that we've 486 00:26:44.180 --> 00:26:47.569 A:middle L:90% done on problem solving because I think they have provided 487 00:26:47.569 --> 00:26:51.980 A:middle L:90% a unique, unique perspective. Just as I think 488 00:26:51.980 --> 00:26:53.970 A:middle L:90% our work on Constructivism, uh, sort of push 489 00:26:53.970 --> 00:26:56.359 A:middle L:90% the field in a different direction, as evidenced by 490 00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.200 A:middle L:90% the nature of the papers that are submitted to this 491 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:06.490 A:middle L:90% conference and other conferences, I now see the problem 492 00:27:06.490 --> 00:27:10.019 A:middle L:90% solving as being much more strongly represented in the topics 493 00:27:10.019 --> 00:27:11.500 A:middle L:90% that people are researching in our field, both in 494 00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:15.230 A:middle L:90% terms of the papers that I that I review for 495 00:27:15.230 --> 00:27:19.049 A:middle L:90% publication and the conference presentations here at this conference, 496 00:27:19.059 --> 00:27:22.650 A:middle L:90% Uh, I see a lot more people looking into 497 00:27:22.650 --> 00:27:25.529 A:middle L:90% problem solving. I don't think they completely understand it 498 00:27:25.529 --> 00:27:26.390 A:middle L:90% yet. Not that any of us really do. 499 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.210 A:middle L:90% Um, but that's very gratifying, you know, 500 00:27:30.210 --> 00:27:33.000 A:middle L:90% when you know that you've had an effect on a 501 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.039 A:middle L:90% field, even in some small and subtle way. 502 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:37.450 A:middle L:90% I think that's that's a pretty good testament to your 503 00:27:37.450 --> 00:27:42.309 A:middle L:90% career. They're not all pretty. Uh, honestly 504 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:45.859 A:middle L:90% , you care to be right, Right? Right 505 00:27:45.859 --> 00:27:47.420 A:middle L:90% , right. I came from a broken home. 506 00:27:47.420 --> 00:27:49.680 A:middle L:90% My parents were divorced when I was four, and 507 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.859 A:middle L:90% we live with my mother in Southern Indiana, and 508 00:27:55.140 --> 00:27:57.960 A:middle L:90% I think What really? Mm. The most significant 509 00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:00.859 A:middle L:90% effect on our lives was the fact that we were 510 00:28:00.859 --> 00:28:03.559 A:middle L:90% all both positive and negative was the fact that we 511 00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.660 A:middle L:90% were pretty much raised as young adults. We had 512 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:14.779 A:middle L:90% to be pretty much independent and self reliant throughout our 513 00:28:14.779 --> 00:28:18.150 A:middle L:90% childhood, and we always pretty much excelled in school 514 00:28:18.150 --> 00:28:22.059 A:middle L:90% . We never caused problems. We never because my 515 00:28:22.059 --> 00:28:26.079 A:middle L:90% our mother had a difficult enough life trying to trying 516 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:27.950 A:middle L:90% to deal with that. So So I think. 517 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.380 A:middle L:90% I think the sense of of adulthood and self reliance 518 00:28:33.390 --> 00:28:36.079 A:middle L:90% Is there some negatives there as well? But perhaps 519 00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:37.329 A:middle L:90% didn't have the childhood that we could ever should have 520 00:28:37.329 --> 00:28:41.839 A:middle L:90% . But But you know that, for me, 521 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.279 A:middle L:90% is really I think the whole notion of self reliance 522 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.859 A:middle L:90% and personal responsibility is just so endemic and and my 523 00:28:47.859 --> 00:28:51.279 A:middle L:90% belief system. I think it's a real significant problem 524 00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:53.980 A:middle L:90% in our society. I think personal responsibility has just 525 00:28:53.980 --> 00:29:02.289 A:middle L:90% been mitigated so much by entitlement and and more frighteningly 526 00:29:02.289 --> 00:29:04.000 A:middle L:90% , I think the whole notion of social responsibility is 527 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:10.130 A:middle L:90% just gone by the wayside. I've I'm somewhat pessimistic 528 00:29:10.130 --> 00:29:11.769 A:middle L:90% about the future authority of the country in the world 529 00:29:12.140 --> 00:29:15.269 A:middle L:90% . Hopefully, you know, those values will change 530 00:29:15.269 --> 00:29:18.000 A:middle L:90% . But when I see the political discourse in our 531 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.670 A:middle L:90% country these days, I get I'm not giving a 532 00:29:22.670 --> 00:29:26.519 A:middle L:90% great deal of hope. Mhm, uh, for 533 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.029 A:middle L:90% me. Uh, well, I've always been physically 534 00:29:30.029 --> 00:29:32.650 A:middle L:90% active. My wife and I are very active. 535 00:29:32.650 --> 00:29:33.720 A:middle L:90% We run and we work out. And so, 536 00:29:33.730 --> 00:29:40.150 A:middle L:90% um, my passion is mountain climbing. We live 537 00:29:40.150 --> 00:29:41.190 A:middle L:90% in Colorado in the summer, and so I I 538 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:44.670 A:middle L:90% just I love to climb mountains. Uh, i'll 539 00:29:44.670 --> 00:29:48.450 A:middle L:90% do technical mountains with a guide with on rope. 540 00:29:48.460 --> 00:29:51.710 A:middle L:90% Uh, you know, or just even easy mountains 541 00:29:51.710 --> 00:29:52.970 A:middle L:90% . I There's just something for me spiritual about going 542 00:29:52.970 --> 00:29:55.559 A:middle L:90% up a mountain. I mean, if you actually 543 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:56.920 A:middle L:90% look at all the so many of the Old Testament 544 00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:00.579 A:middle L:90% and even New Testament references, they were always going 545 00:30:00.579 --> 00:30:02.579 A:middle L:90% up to the mountain, so I figured there had 546 00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:06.069 A:middle L:90% to be something good going on up there? Uh 547 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.119 A:middle L:90% , just just a spiritual refreshment that you get from 548 00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:11.480 A:middle L:90% standing on top of the mountain is just really for 549 00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.009 A:middle L:90% me, is compelling. So I love, uh 550 00:30:15.019 --> 00:30:17.099 A:middle L:90% , and and just being out in nature when I 551 00:30:17.109 --> 00:30:18.869 A:middle L:90% , uh, for 10 years I was the University 552 00:30:18.869 --> 00:30:21.099 A:middle L:90% of North Carolina at Greensboro and every chance I got 553 00:30:21.099 --> 00:30:22.000 A:middle L:90% to be up in the Blue Ridge Mountains hiking or 554 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.160 A:middle L:90% backpacking or whatever. And so I'm also compelled by 555 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.380 A:middle L:90% ski, which also requires mountains. Uh, and 556 00:30:30.380 --> 00:30:33.259 A:middle L:90% so I love to do that as well. And 557 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:36.390 A:middle L:90% other than that of the traveling, I've been blessed 558 00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:38.119 A:middle L:90% , I suppose, because of my because of whatever 559 00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:41.690 A:middle L:90% success I've had academically, I've been invited many times 560 00:30:41.690 --> 00:30:45.470 A:middle L:90% to deliver talks and workshops and activities around the world 561 00:30:45.470 --> 00:30:48.440 A:middle L:90% . And so I've visited a lot more of the 562 00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:49.670 A:middle L:90% world than most people ever get to. And and 563 00:30:49.670 --> 00:30:52.460 A:middle L:90% that's been a real blessing. And and it's been 564 00:30:52.460 --> 00:30:55.880 A:middle L:90% very eye opening. Um, I really crave those 565 00:30:55.890 --> 00:30:59.059 A:middle L:90% those kinds of otherworldly experiences. What I what I 566 00:30:59.059 --> 00:31:02.960 A:middle L:90% call you ain't in Kansas anymore. Toto experiences this 567 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:06.450 A:middle L:90% place is really different. Yeah, like going to 568 00:31:06.450 --> 00:31:07.920 A:middle L:90% Borneo or whatever. You know, it's just the 569 00:31:07.930 --> 00:31:11.589 A:middle L:90% culture is so different from anything we know that it's 570 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.579 A:middle L:90% , you know, that it's that I find I 571 00:31:15.589 --> 00:31:18.119 A:middle L:90% find it really, really compelling. Although more recently 572 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:21.829 A:middle L:90% my wife and I have really been focusing our energies 573 00:31:21.829 --> 00:31:23.470 A:middle L:90% on Italy. It's a wonderful my wife is Italian 574 00:31:23.470 --> 00:31:26.170 A:middle L:90% , and so and we love the people and the 575 00:31:26.180 --> 00:31:29.750 A:middle L:90% culture and the food. It's really a wonderful place 576 00:31:29.750 --> 00:31:32.519 A:middle L:90% to visit. Well, yeah, interesting question. 577 00:31:32.529 --> 00:31:33.930 A:middle L:90% I mean, my wife and our Catholic and so 578 00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:38.549 A:middle L:90% that that impels you in a particular direction. But 579 00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.349 A:middle L:90% and and for me, religion. I mean, 580 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:45.099 A:middle L:90% religion is not so much about dogmas. About how 581 00:31:45.099 --> 00:31:48.910 A:middle L:90% you live your live, Um, it's it's really 582 00:31:48.910 --> 00:31:51.990 A:middle L:90% interesting when you get into church politics how petty and 583 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:55.049 A:middle L:90% vindictive people can actually be. And I just sometimes 584 00:31:55.049 --> 00:31:56.240 A:middle L:90% want to shake him and say, you know, 585 00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:57.650 A:middle L:90% aren't you listening to the Gospels? Come on, 586 00:31:57.650 --> 00:32:04.430 A:middle L:90% folks. So the most compelling to me is is 587 00:32:04.430 --> 00:32:07.339 A:middle L:90% really how you live your life and, uh, 588 00:32:07.349 --> 00:32:09.250 A:middle L:90% and the manner in which you do so in the 589 00:32:09.250 --> 00:32:13.210 A:middle L:90% manner in which you relate to other people. Uh 590 00:32:13.210 --> 00:32:15.339 A:middle L:90% , and again, that whole idea of self reliance 591 00:32:15.339 --> 00:32:17.849 A:middle L:90% and personal responsibility, I think, is just absolute 592 00:32:19.539 --> 00:32:22.230 A:middle L:90% . That's from a personal perspective. I know, 593 00:32:22.230 --> 00:32:24.740 A:middle L:90% I understand. I've been asked that question many times 594 00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:27.509 A:middle L:90% , and frankly, I don't know the answer to 595 00:32:27.509 --> 00:32:29.450 A:middle L:90% it. I guess it's just not that hard. 596 00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:32.180 A:middle L:90% Um, writing is, you know, for many 597 00:32:32.180 --> 00:32:36.339 A:middle L:90% people is a difficult endeavor. I've always been fairly 598 00:32:36.339 --> 00:32:38.839 A:middle L:90% successful and found writing to be a fairly easy task 599 00:32:38.849 --> 00:32:40.769 A:middle L:90% . Uh, and I've got a head full of 600 00:32:40.769 --> 00:32:44.299 A:middle L:90% ideas. Uh, and when I look at the 601 00:32:44.299 --> 00:32:46.460 A:middle L:90% world, I you know, I always look at 602 00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:50.609 A:middle L:90% not only the implications but also the, you know 603 00:32:50.609 --> 00:32:52.250 A:middle L:90% , the research needs. I typically, every time 604 00:32:52.250 --> 00:32:54.950 A:middle L:90% I read a paper, I I invariably come up 605 00:32:54.950 --> 00:32:59.069 A:middle L:90% with three or four other research topics related to that 606 00:32:59.069 --> 00:33:00.210 A:middle L:90% paper that really ought to be done. Could be 607 00:33:00.210 --> 00:33:05.289 A:middle L:90% done. So I'm an implication all thinker in that 608 00:33:05.299 --> 00:33:07.609 A:middle L:90% , in that sense, uh, in terms of 609 00:33:07.609 --> 00:33:09.450 A:middle L:90% advice, it's really hard to say, Um, 610 00:33:10.539 --> 00:33:13.589 A:middle L:90% I think the only advice I can give us time 611 00:33:13.589 --> 00:33:16.130 A:middle L:90% management. Uh, and by that I mean, 612 00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:20.130 A:middle L:90% as as a young academic, you've really got a 613 00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:22.160 A:middle L:90% carve out time for doing those sorts of things, 614 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:27.900 A:middle L:90% whether you whether you work in the office successfully or 615 00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:30.829 A:middle L:90% work more successfully at home. Gosh, and my 616 00:33:30.829 --> 00:33:32.710 A:middle L:90% first job at the University of North Carolina, Greensboro 617 00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:36.480 A:middle L:90% . Uh, I had a carol, a closed 618 00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.640 A:middle L:90% door academic carol in the library, and no one 619 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:43.490 A:middle L:90% ever found me there so I could go and and 620 00:33:43.490 --> 00:33:46.200 A:middle L:90% work without any kind of interruption. Um, so 621 00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:50.269 A:middle L:90% I think it's a matter of carving out significant portions 622 00:33:50.269 --> 00:33:52.400 A:middle L:90% of time where you can work. I think effectively 623 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:53.950 A:middle L:90% working on ideas is not something you can do in 624 00:33:53.950 --> 00:33:58.430 A:middle L:90% 15 or 20 minutes. Bits you've got to you've 625 00:33:58.430 --> 00:34:01.339 A:middle L:90% got you've got to apply, um, yourself over 626 00:34:01.339 --> 00:34:05.140 A:middle L:90% a longer period of time. And so and And 627 00:34:05.150 --> 00:34:08.519 A:middle L:90% fortunately, uh, in most situations, academics have 628 00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:13.960 A:middle L:90% the flexibility to be able to do that. I 629 00:34:13.969 --> 00:34:15.210 A:middle L:90% tell people all the time that I've certainly committed my 630 00:34:15.210 --> 00:34:17.519 A:middle L:90% share of mistakes in life. But career choice wasn't 631 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:21.670 A:middle L:90% one of them. I can't imagine doing or having 632 00:34:21.670 --> 00:34:22.869 A:middle L:90% done anything other than what I've done. There is 633 00:34:22.869 --> 00:34:24.360 A:middle L:90% no job in the world that is, I think 634 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:29.480 A:middle L:90% , more fulfilling. That has more autonomy. Um 635 00:34:29.539 --> 00:34:32.269 A:middle L:90% , and so I find it fulfilling press because I've 636 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:37.369 A:middle L:90% done a lot. But, you know, personal 637 00:34:37.369 --> 00:34:40.730 A:middle L:90% satisfaction is achieved in many many ways. Uh, 638 00:34:40.739 --> 00:34:43.449 A:middle L:90% and so I just felt compelled to do that. 639 00:34:43.449 --> 00:34:45.769 A:middle L:90% I suppose I'm neurotic in some sense. You know 640 00:34:45.769 --> 00:34:46.980 A:middle L:90% , at least I'm I'm impelled to do these sorts 641 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:50.809 A:middle L:90% of things and yeah, really, really stopped to 642 00:34:50.809 --> 00:34:52.389 A:middle L:90% ask why It's just there. And I do it 643 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:58.550 A:middle L:90% because I enjoy it. Um, yeah. Great 644 00:34:58.550 --> 00:35:00.900 A:middle L:90% . So the last question is just Is there anything 645 00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:04.170 A:middle L:90% we haven't touched upon that you feel you'd like to 646 00:35:04.170 --> 00:35:07.690 A:middle L:90% address? Don't, can I? You know, 647 00:35:07.690 --> 00:35:09.159 A:middle L:90% I'm sure I can think of lots of things, 648 00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:10.900 A:middle L:90% but, I mean, but I think we've pretty 649 00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:14.789 A:middle L:90% much covered covered the ballpark. Great. Well, 650 00:35:14.789 --> 00:35:15.550 A:middle L:90% thank you so much for agreeing to do.