Mhm. Yeah. Hello. Thank you for braving
the snow 12 30 so that we should start.
Uh, thank you for coming. This is our
part of our Women and Gender and International Development Discussion
series run by the Office of International Research Education Development
. So I read, There's a very special one
because we have a great group of students for you
to listen to and talk with. And it's a
special signature event for Women's Month. Women's month is
the month of March, and there's many events you
can go to the women's center. Look at the
calendar and in addition, um, how many of
you are aware of inclusive ET Raise your hands?
We've heard of Inclusive ET Okay, so Inclusive ET
is a program of President Sands. It's a that
has high level presidents and deans have developed three initiatives
for each of their colleges and programs. This is
one of the initiatives for outreach and international affairs.
So we are. I'm hoping to get more people
coming to our discussion, So if we move them
this semester here to the library, we have them
once a month will continue to have them. Please
be sure you signed up and we'll ask you to
the lister if you'd like to get information about them
. So today we have I'm gonna let them introduce
themselves individually. And then, uh, Dr Emily
Van Howling, who is the associate director for women
and Gender International development at our office or I D
. She'll be the facilitator for the panel. But
we have students from Yemen, Pakistan, Ecuador,
Nigeria, Mozambique. So, no, that's wrong
. No, no more big. Okay, Just
South Sudan. Because sorry for Okay, so I'm
gonna leave here. I'm gonna leave you to from
the panel. Thank you. Okay. Thank you
. I'll start by just telling you our plan for
the next hour, um, going to start by
having each of our participants introduce themselves and talk a
little bit about what they're doing now and sort of
their journey through the education system just in two or
three minutes. So people are oriented with your stories
, and then we're going to talk about the challenges
, um, and obstacles that you had to overcome
in this journey. And next, we're going to
reflect on some factors that you think contributed to your
success and then talk about your experience in education system
at Virginia Tech. And then we'll try and stop
about 15 minutes early to get questions from the audience
. So I'll start by asking each of the participants
to introduce themselves. Um, we'll talk about what
country they're from and briefly explained our journey through the
education system. My name is Rafael Daddy. I
finished my PhD from Virginia Tech in 2013 from the
College of Architecture and Urban Studies. My name is
Wafa daily. I am from Yemen. I finished
my PhD from, uh, College of Architecture and
Urban Studies in 2013 from Virginia Attack. I worked
as a senior project associated with Virginia Tech Institute for
Policy and Governance. I came to the US in
2000 and three during my master's degree and PhD degree
. I finished my master's degree from Rutgers University in
New Jersey, and I finished my PhD from Virginia
attack. Um, my journey started when I started
back in in Yemen to choose to select finishing my
higher education outside of Yemen, especially in the US
, which was very hard at that time in 2013
, especially after the 9 11 happened in in the
US Everything was messed up and also in the Arab
countries. And the attitude was You're going to enemy
country for us. Why are you going there?
So I said there was, like, several factors
that made me to choose the US Great country,
great education, great diversity in there. So I
can choose to be part of this, um,
of this education in the US, so Okay.
Oh, my name is Vanessa. Carry on.
A young from Ecuador. I am a PhD candidate
in department of Agricultural and Applied economics. Uh,
my journey started going. My husband was admitted here
at Virginia Tech for a PhD, and I decided
to come with him. And, of course,
I wanted also to pursue higher education and get out
, uh, master's degree at that time. And
then I decided to continue and get a PhD degree
. I am close to finish, and, well
, it has been a very wonderful experience. And
, uh, well, it wasn't that difficult to
come here, since with my husband, we have
these ideas of what we want for our life together
. And he has always been very supportive. So
as well. My family and we are here,
close to finishing very open to unhappy and waiting to
see what the war has for us. Hi.
My name is Natasha. Say it. I am
from Pakistan. Um, so I am a master
student. Uh, second, I'm in my second
year, and I will be graduating this May.
Um, my journey started actually from the U.
S. Because I was born here. But then
, um, because my family was from Pakistan.
I ended up going back, Um, when I
was about nine or 10 years old, Um,
I I studied and, um, private schools,
but then also government schools in Pakistan for most of
the part. And I did my undergrad from Pakistan
in anthropology. Um, and then I started working
, but I have been trying to ever since I
graduated. Um, from undergrad. I have been
trying to come back to the U. S to
get a master's degree, but, uh, I
wasn't able to, um, because of certain factors
which we'll talk about data, but but, yeah
, I'm here, and I will be graduating.
And, um, I'm pretty excited about, you
know, the opportunities that I can get in the
U. S. Um okay. Thank you.
My name is Flora Johanna Sobrino. I'm from South
Sudan. I'm a PhD student in the Department of
Mining and Mineral Engineering. Um, my journey actually
studied from down in Africa, in south Sudan.
I was born there. I had my primary education
in South Sudan. All the other education until,
uh, the bachelor degree I headed from Department of
Geology and Mining, University of Cuba. And then
I did my masters in petroleum engineering in University Petronas
Technology. That's in Malaysia. So it was a
nice journey being supported by good parents, lovely parents
. And I was lucky to have also very good
colleagues who are always supportive. So though it was
a bit challenging, uh, if you can see
in one of these photos, you can see students
working on the road. That was what exactly I
did when I was in my primary. So I
had to work long distance three miles every day,
going and coming. So it's like six miles working
to get education. Thank you. Hi. My
name is no Morocco. I'm from Lagos, Nigeria
. Um, say my experience compared to the maybe
the stereotypical Nigerian experience is very different. I've been
very lucky um my I went to a government run
primary school, which had a lot of flaws.
Um, particularly pretending to female sanitation. Um,
but I think that's the extent of the difficulty I
can say. I really had, um I went
to a private owned boarding school, which is a
much different experience, and I'll talk about that in
the course of the panel. Um, but I'm
in my junior year here now. Very supportive parents
as well, Much like many people in this panel
, Um, and I will be graduating next year
, 2016. So thank you. So you can
see we've been very lucky to have these five women
spend some time with us and talk with us more
about their experiences. Um, now we're going to
try and create a bit more of a free flowing
discussion. The next question I'd like our Panelists who
addresses thinking about some of the challenges and obstacles they
had to overcome in their journey through higher education and
maybe how their journey is different or similar to other
people in their country and how their community and family
viewed their choices and some of the general perceptions about
education and women in in your country and and how
those perceptions might vary by region or by different groups
within your country. So there's some guiding questions,
but feel free to take it wherever you want.
Anyone can start if I talk about the difficulties to
come to the U. S. The first barrier
was the acceptance of the family within the family and
the society the entire family was against going out of
the country. It's against going having higher education and
against going out of the country and against going to
the U. S. So it was like three
steps. So my dad, he said, This
is your choice. And if you wanted to pursue
your education, I don't care. You have.
You don't have to care about anybody. Just do
whatever you feel comfortable with. And at that point
, he had to go to the court to issue
a statement to allow me to leave the country,
which is the regulation back in Yemen. Any female
, she has to have the signature of her that
just to allow her to leave the country. So
this is like a document allowing the girl to leave
the country So she is responsible enough to to go
abroad. And he went to the court and the
judge was asking him, Are you sure you want
to to allow your daughter to go outside? He
said, Yes, I am sure. And I
trust my daughter. She can pursue her education and
I have a great dream about her and she can
pursue her dreams and she can be something in the
society. Then he said, Well, this is
really odd and I just wanted to recommend you if
you can change if you wanted to change your mind
but go ahead and sign the statement. He signed
the statement. I get my passport and I came
here to the US based on the agreement of my
dad and the agreement of the court to allow me
to go out of the country. This was one
of the biggest challenges to go out of the country
. Well, I think Ecuador, we still have
a lot of stereotypes, and what are the roles
that women need to fulfill? You are expected to
be a mother. You are expected to take care
of the Children. And even when I was in
college, I was I took this class in macroeconomics
and we had one professor that you If you do
, you don't do well. If you didn't do
well in his class, he will tell you something
like, Well, maybe this is not for you
. Maybe you should look for a husband, get
married, and then take care of your Children.
This is too much. Maybe it's not for you
. And I think we still have not just in
universities, in the food, in the family.
Parents just generally are very supportive. But if you
get married and you have a husband that want you
to be at home, probably he's not going to
encourage you to to go further and further in your
education, it's easier to have a if you are
not educated. If you don't have a career,
well, you don't have any challenge. You will
stay at home you want and look for a job
is what happened. And even when in the law
is guarantee that women are equal that men, we
still have that problem in the in the mindset of
, uh, of the family and men, I
am the lucky one as well, because my husband
has always encouraged me and he always see See me
as a peer. Okay. But it's not always
the case. So, um, some of the
challenges that I faced I think we're, uh first
of all. I mean, I I have a
very supportive mother. I lost my father when I
was very young, but she stood up in front
of the entire family to say, I want my
daughters to get educated and I want them to make
a career and to be something in life. Um
, but I even though, you know, I
had a very supportive mother, the culture, um
, in those societies, um, really affects the
way you function. Um, and it affects mostly
women a lot. Um, I, um,
initially wanted to do my, uh, N b
A. But, uh, I wasn't allowed to
do it because, um because my brother had to
go to a better school. So it was kind
of, you know, I mean, it was
preferred that he goes to a better school and gets
much better education because men, like she said,
are supposed to work and are supposed to have a
career. Women are supposed to stay at home,
do housework Um, and that's, you know,
the typical stereotype. Um, so, yeah,
that's one of the things that I I, uh
, I faced, um, and then moving on
, um, when it came to career choices,
uh, there were things that I, you know
, wanted to do. Like, I want to
get into theater and other things, but I wasn't
allowed to, so I wasn't allowed to pursue that
degree. So the only thing that I I ended
up doing was anthropology because it meant that I could
stay close to home and I could stay in the
city, and I didn't have to go out of
the city. Um, so it definitely affected my
career choices. But then I got into, uh
, you know, anthropology and development and, um
, and, you know, just, uh,
wanting to come here after I graduated. Uh,
but again, um, I wasn't allowed to do
that because I was always told, you know,
if you want to, I like my mother always
told me and other relatives as well and you know
, in that part of the world's relatives, uh
, and outsiders matter a lot. They shape a
lot of what you know happens within your family and
, uh, they really affect their opinions. And
their suggestions affect the way, uh, basically affect
your career choices and your life in general. Especially
girls. Um, so I was told that no
, you should not. You cannot go abroad because
, you know, I have put you through undergrad
. And now, if you want to go abroad
, you get married. Do your PhD, do
your masters do whatever you want, but after you're
married. So that was the you know, the
first response from everybody you know, get married and
do whatever you want. Um, so yeah,
that took kind of it took me about 67 years
to fight my way through. Finally, you know
, coming here, uh, and getting a getting
enrolled. And that was that actually happened because I
did not tell my family that I had applied and
and I got in and I came here. But
it was quite a struggle to just convince my family
and my mother and the entire extended family that I
wanted to do this. And I really wanted to
without them being, you know, scrutinizing me for
not being married, which still happens and will happen
until I am married, so yeah. Oh,
yeah. Ladies or girls in South Sudan? Um
, not very much different from girls in other countries
, as I have heard from my colleagues here.
So, uh, there are so many challenges and
obstacles which are actually in common, I think in
many societies, um, in South Sudan. Uh
, the perception about ladies is that, uh you
don't need to go to school because you will be
married to another family. And so we are not
going to benefit from that school if we invest on
Europe. But I can see people still send their
girls to school, and, uh, that happens
a lot in the rural area where when they reach
a certain age, which is like, the thing
is formatted, like, 18 years or 15 years
, they marry them of, uh because they said
, uh, number one is like some people,
Some group of people get diary from that, and
they see, uh, it's good for them to
marry off the girls and educate the boy because the
boy would be the pillar of the house. But
I was so lucky and other girls that we have
good parents who would like to see their girls educated
whatsoever. The cultures are saying so. I heard
some obstacles, including my career. Um, my
bachelor degree was in geology and mining, in which
so many people have been asking me. But you
have to choose this main career. You will be
in the field. What type of woman is always
in the field? He's supposed to be in the
house. Uh, but I didn't get that from
my family, So it gave me really courage that
, uh, let me make my decision. So
I took that decision, though later on I realized
this is field work. There is no office working
. Geology is tough, but I like it.
And so the same. Other girls also and girls
also used to have so many obstacles, especially those
ones who are in rural areas. They have to
move long distance and on the way they might have
encountered. Or they may encounter so many risk or
issues regards with safety. Uh, since there are
girls and sometimes you know when they get boys which
are not good or men which are not good or
animals on the road, it's a bit difficult.
So those are some of the challenges and obstacles ladies
or girls are getting in South Sudan. And this
thinking of women office is kitchen, which I don't
think it's a good idea. So, yeah,
this is how ladies in South Sudan are sometimes facing
problems of, but they are doing fine. Um
, and I'm gonna come back to the topic of
getting something going wrong along the way. Because if
you're familiar with some of the things that were going
on in Nigeria recently, you know that in certain
parts of Nigeria it's not safe to be a girl
going to school. Um, but I'm gonna run
through a quick chronologically and talk about my grandmother and
my grandmother got married at 15, um, to
my grandfather, who was kind of a credit Robert
, because he was about 30 35. Yeah,
but she she completely standard six, which is,
uh, the former British equivalent of somewhere between your
middle school. Kind of, um and what that
did for her was that it allowed her to be
able to trade know the basics of business, the
basics of currency, the basics of finance, but
not be able to hold an office job. My
grandfather was extremely educated. My grandfather was a minister
, um, in the eastern region and in a
political party. So he was really, well,
well educated. And my grandmother was not, um
and my grandfather passed relatively early. Um uh,
when he was about 60 but they had a number
of kids and my grandmother was left to support this
. You don't know how she was able to do
so because she knew these kind of basics and her
daughters had been to school. Um, and she
was very adamant about her daughter's going to school and
things like that. And it's I don't think that's
necessarily contingent on having to understand its six because there's
a lot of women who did they get an education
. They realized how hindering that that is. And
then they're like, Okay, my daughter's most go
to school regardless, and there's a lot of if
you study show that, like if your mother went
to university, you're more likely to go to university
because you've seen the benefits. I just kinda wanted
to throw that in there. But many times,
um, it really comes down to your region.
This is especially true in Nigeria. There is a
huge disparity in the way women are educated between the
North and the South. Um, in the south
, actually, in Lagos where I'm from, you
can have gained free education, primary education from which
is about ages 5 to 10. Um, regardless
of your agenda, um, in the north,
it tends to be like that. But if you
are familiar with the chibok girls, anybody has anybody
heard about that and bring back our girls that Campagna
um, what happened was on their way to school
. A bus, a couple of buses I can
imagine of Nigerian girls in north were abducted, um
, by Boko Haram and they still haven't really been
brought back, to be honest, but and I
think it's really it's really interesting that the way and
worrying that where you are even in a developing country
, especially in a developing country, rather is terribly
, could be terribly detrimental to your health as a
woman. So being in the South isn't necessarily that
, you know you're free. And if you don't
, if you walk down the street, somebody isn't
going to call you something or somebody isn't going to
tell you, you know you're a woman. So
you shouldn't be. You should you should not be
in school, which is a really common sentiment.
Still, Um, I'm here now, but sometimes
when I go back home and I got to visit
people, especially the older people or the young boys
who talked too much, you know, they say
things like, um, you know, because you're
university in America. That's why you always argue which
may or may not be true, but it's it
could really be, you know, detrimental to the
health or to the development of somebody's education, especially
if you start to take that so hard. But
it's nowhere near, you know, It's telling me
I talk too much is nowhere near, you know
, kidnapping me for the cause of education. So
I think in your region, and I think Pakistan
can speak to that as well. Um, could
really be an issue. What do you think?
You know, I I absolutely agree. I mean
, and, um, you know, I have
been I'm one of those privileged ones, unfortunate ones
who actually had a supportive mother and was born in
the city and and had exposure to the U S
. And tax. Then But, um, most
of the women in Pakistan, for example, you
might I'm sure. You know, some of you
might have heard of Malala. Uh, and the
terrorism situation especially prevalent in Pakistan. Um, I
mean, if you're if you want to get educated
and if you want, which is like a basic
right of every child, Um, you are at
a risk of either getting abducted or shot on your
way to school or or your family is being targeted
. Um, only because you want to learn.
Um, and especially for women, Um, I
mean, it's it's the general. Uh, the
general stereotype or assumption is always that women are supposed
to stay at home. Um, and, uh
, they're meant for that. Um and so So
men are always given a privilege over women. Um
, and if you look at most of the country
, uh, that's how it is. Um,
but then also, you know, in terms of
the security situation and, uh, just general obstacles
. I mean, women are not there if you
go to women institutions, Um, like the female
schools, all women schools, um, they don't
have as much choice when it comes to selecting topics
and subjects and and as compared to men, women
still, uh, pursuing degrees in engineering. And
, uh, you know, like geology, for
example, is very, uh, it's not common
. And, uh, people look at you with
, you know, like, in shock. And
they're like, you know, why are you that
That's a man's profession. That's what men are supposed
to do. You're supposed to probably do, like
food and nutrition and home economics and education. Yeah
, just become a teacher. That is the Mm
. I think that's like the ideal, um,
career for women, uh, is to become a
teacher, Um, and teach kids. Um and
so, yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean
, I think there are definitely a lot of the
similarities there. What about you? Uh, yeah
. Like in we have these issues, you know
, for women to go to higher education. They
have some problems, like the choice for the career
, the type of the field they would like to
go to. Some families have influence on that.
Just because they say you are a lady, this
is tough work. You know, they give them
that impression that you cannot do. Some families do
that and that one really have a lot of negative
impact on having girls in many, uh, specializations
, like engineering and other fields, which would like
you to be outside the house for a long time
and sometimes outside the town. And also, there
are other things which have impact on the negative impact
, actually on women carrier like the trump, very
early from schools due to unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.
And that is simply because I think there is no
sex education, uh, in my country being introduced
in the school. So when they reach that age
, which they can conceive the end up because they
are not being, oh, enlightened of how to
actually protect themselves team themselves. And some families don't
have the chance to talk to the girls. So
the girl ended up when she's in secondary or high
school. She ended up pregnant, and when she
is pregnant, the boy might be a small egg
. Not responsible, not walking, maybe her colleague
. So that becomes an issue whereby, uh,
the girl drops from school. And that is why
we don't have a lot of girls in the,
uh, sitting curious or even in higher education.
A lot of them. So yeah, I would
say about the early marriage is one of the main
factors in Yemen to drop out of school. For
example, my mom, she got married when she
was seven and my dad was 25 she was very
supportive. She has four girls, and she was
like, No way that they can get married at
early Asia, she was behind us. Push us
to finish at least our undergrad degrees. Then we
can. We can continue in rural areas, families
. They prefer their girls to get married area because
school are not available for them in their areas.
They have to travel long distances, which is risky
, and they are subject to harassment, violence,
even if they go to schools. They are mixed
schools because they don't in rural areas, they don't
have the financial support for building a new school for
girls only. So families they become really worried about
their girls to go to go to these schools since
they are mixed and another factor that has been developed
lately in 20,000 since 2010, which is the ongoing
armed conflict in Yemen and the presence of so many
records groups including Al Qaeda, al Fatih and all
these crazy people who come to the country and just
, uh, create a big mess in the country
. So families they are not feeling safe. Even
if they are willing to send their daughters to schools
, they will not feel safe to do so.
They keep their girls at home and just sit home
, help the mother do something at home. So
that was one of the factors and lack of,
um, teacher female females in schools. We have
a very few teachers in medical schools. Also parents
. They don't prepare their daughters to be teached by
teacher means. So they said this is not allow
This is not acceptable. We will not allow our
daughter to just go and receive education from a male
teacher, which is an issue in there as well
. So these are very common in my in my
country. I think also the issue of female teachers
in school also have some contributions to having girls in
school because you know, when you see a model
girl, so it encourages the young girls like I
want to be like Mrs Ex Mrs X. So
if they go to school. They find old men
. They also feel like it seems like it's not
an environment for girls. Since we don't see any
girl teacher, you know, it gives that impression
in their minds, and it has some impact.
So you find most communities which I do not have
female teachers. There are some issues, sometimes with
girls being continuing in school. Some of them they
, as she said, is that the, uh
, the parents who will feel like it's not a
good environment and others also will be the girls themselves
. They will see like that's a place for men
only. I don't see any female teacher, so
why should I be there sometimes? So they need
to be encouraged in different ways. We'll look at
like my country. We don't have those types of
conflicts conflicts going on, so I don't have any
experience like that. But I will agree with you
guys. A big problem is some wanted pregnancies and
early ages, because once that you have a baby
, um and you might have or might have no
the support of the father, then you don't have
any choices for your life. You And even if
you if you get married and you have a husband
you didn't experience. Wadi is to have a career
, how to go to college and maybe think about
what you want to do with your life. Because
if you don't you have a Children. This is
difficult to go to school and to have education.
A. Obviously. It also depends of the husband
and how willing he is to share the the house
responsibilities with you. Because I have seen many cases
when you, if you want to do, if
you want to go to college, that's fine.
But it doesn't mean that I'm going to help you
to take care of the Children. You will have
to find the way to do it. So better
talk with your mom. And yes, I have
seen men that are not able to see, uh
, take the food and, you know, putting
a play to feed themselves. They are waiting.
Yes, that's true. And it's in my family
. It's not something that is happening just in low
income families is happening old whole level in No,
he's waiting. You even see it in the table
just waiting for your wife, too. Serve your
Yeah, So it's It's sad. So it's sad
. I think one of the things present in my
country is, uh is how boys are raised.
Um, and I know that that tends to be
a very pervasive thing, even here in America.
But one of the stories I heard about when I
was growing up was when my mom went to primary
school and she had this. She used to do
really well at math, and she used to surpassed
the former genius. Who was this boycott? Patrick
. And if you're interested in the story, I
must tell you really funny. He would tell her
every day that she passed him. She if she
got 97 he got in 96 he is, uh
, she's a woman, and it's because the teacher
is the man. And so she's seducing him.
This is a seven year old girl, by the
way. She's seducing him, and that's why he's
letting her, you know, pass. And so
, at the end of the school term, uh
, and this is Luckily, this is lighthearted because
in many areas this is a much deeper issue.
Um, but at the end of the school year
, she came first and the guys that he came
second. And so he cannot her and told her
that, uh, they have to fight because it's
the only meaningful wish he can. He can prove
that he's a man, she's a woman, and
her place is not in the class anyway. Long
story short, my mom, one that she puts
down his mouth. But story, I promise.
But I think a big thing is about how the
boys are raised and what they're raised to believe.
And if you raise somebody to believe that they're inherently
better, then that's how they are going to conduct
. You know, their relationships with the women around
them, their relationships. And when they get into
political office, that's how they coordinate their relationships with
, you know, subordinate subordinates of that gender.
And I think also, um, a lot of
it has to do with high responsibility, is given
out in mixed mixed schools. Um, in because
in Nigeria I know that a lot of the time
if you there's this thing called prefects, I don't
know if you guys are particularly familiar with um but
it's like appointed student government, but it's a point
that you don't really run for, um and a
lot of the time they want to give the top
roles to the guys because it's kind of believed that
, you know, women can't do these things.
And what what would it look like if there's an
assembly and a woman is talking and, well,
a girl is talking, Um, So I think
a lot of that is is a big deal to
, uh one of the issues was if you get
your education as a female outside when you come back
to, uh your country, everybody look at you
in a negative way. But if you are a
male, get your education outside and you go back
to your country. You have this social status that
you are the brilliant person that ever had goes out
of the country and come with all these education and
background skills so they can benefit out of, you
know, I just have questions regarding what you said
earlier. Uh huh. How did women are higher
education? Undergrad. There are more push to study
topics like home economics and education name. And do
you think when you and when you stress women to
, um study more education. Do you find that
there is a higher number of female teachers in the
lower primary schools? Do you think that would affect
how both girls and boys are raised because they have
? Because if women are being emphasized studying education,
you would think that there will be more female teachers
. Invest better female role models for both genders at
an early age, maybe like preventing that disturbed manipulation
of like how we should do hello, its location
. Actually, it's yeah, but it's actually very
interesting. Your question is, thank you for the
question. But the answer for that is, um
it's yes. It's true that, uh, you
know most of the government schools because I have studied
in private as well as government schools, and I've
seen that there's a lot of, uh, female
teachers. But these female teachers are you know,
you have to keep in mind that they are ones
who they're young, but then they have Children,
and they've been married at a very young age because
they didn't have any choice. They wanted to pursue
a career. They want to do something. Um
, and that was the only choice that they had
going to school and teaching because they know how to
speak English. Um Or, um, you know
, they know a little bit of math, and
so they can get into these schools and teach.
Um, but the kind of message that they are
putting across is, um, you know, they're
married, and they have Children at Young ages.
And so, girls, look at that And,
you know, even, like, unconsciously, you
, you're Yes, she is a teacher, and
she's teaching you, and you can see that.
Okay, She has a career going, and she's
doing something. But she is also married, and
she she also has kids. And, you know
, she her primary primary responsibility is her home and
her kids, and she brings kids her kids to
school. And so you know, when you see
that growing up and then when you get, like
, outside reinforcement about how, um, you should
have been married by now, you know, why
are you not married? And you should not have
a career that makes you go places or, um
, there's a certain age limit. Um uh,
what? 20? I think 25 is when they
say Okay, you're old now. You know,
you should have been married. You should have had
at least one kid by now. Um, so
when When you're looking at that, um, I
think it affects. It affects a lot of things
that affects the way. Uh, even though it's
a teacher, Um, you know, the the
overall personality or the message that she's putting across changes
everything. Does that answer your question? I'm glad
that what you say would work in that way if
teachers are conscious that the way that they were taught
and it's not right so that they have women have
many choices. But if you think that that's correct
, that is good for you to get married early
and then to have kids and that and be a
teacher, then you just you're just reinforcing that message
as a teacher. So it it would work that
like that. It would be good to have a
lot of human teachers, but they they are aware
they struggles together, and then they want more women
to to do that and do better. And But
if you think it's okay, you think and what
your husband say is right, then you just going
for that message. I think I would add something
like in my country when they first gets to go
to social science or education medicine. They forced them
to go to these measures When if they want them
to be educated once they finish their education, they
hope that they can work. Many families, they
don't above their girls to work. Yes, Yes
. You get your degree you use at home.
If something happened to your husband or your dad,
your brother, then you can go ahead and earn
your income. Otherwise, you stay home. You
have the degree so you don't have the You don't
have to work just at home. So some girls
, they get disappointed. Why? I have to
waste for years in education or seven years in medicine
, then sitting home doing nothing. They prepared to
stay home, not to do anything. Just wait
for the right time when they get married and get
out of the house. And maybe their husband would
encourage them to work and finish their education. And
just, you know, on that point, especially
impacts on I feel that I've seen this plenty of
times. And among most of my friends as well
where they have medicine degrees and their doctors and they
want to practice. But as soon as they are
done with medical school, they get married. But
then their in laws. I mean, it's it's
a it's a struggle, you know? It starts
with your own family, um, the ones who
are not supportive, and then it goes on to
your in laws and then fighting with them. It
becomes a struggle for women starting from a very young
age to initially get education and for people to take
them seriously and then to move on and with their
in laws and their husbands. And, um,
um, it's it's like a running joke in my
country that, um, you know, we want
a daughter in law who is a doctor. Just
make sure that she's a doctor, but we don't
want her to practice. We just want her to
you know, um, you know, quick food
and clean the house and take care of our son
. But yeah, we want a doctor, which
does not make sense at all, but that's what
women have to go through Any other questions? Oh
, can you give us your thoughts regarding differences between
being here and being back home and you receive your
own degrees in terms of higher education, what will
be the impact? Shall you put yourself back home
and put it here so we can see both sides
of the coin in a developing countries, developed countries
and the cultural aspects, political society and family wise
? Yeah, I can say this like in South
Sudan, we have girls in higher education, but
it's not like here here. When you are a
girl in the university or pursuing your gradually studies,
it is seen like it's a necessity as far as
you like it. And, uh, nobody actually
interferes, like, why should she be here?
She's supposed to be in the kitchen. She's supposed
to be taking care of kids, but this time
is she's supposed to have kids, you know,
in South Sudan, if you go to higher education
, especially if you don't have Children, people look
at you in a different way. It's an issue
, actually. Is there? How long is she
going to go for school? She's supposed to be
having kids by now. We wonder even if she
will still have kids. So you know the bombard
the girls with these, uh, statements and it
becomes an, you know, disturbing statements in their
life. So you will be having that interest of
getting more knowledge in your career. But you don't
get that support. So it's really like for me
, it's very different. It's very different here.
I am free. I'm doing my education. I
don't see anybody asking me. Do you have kids
? Why are you not having kids up to now
? But in South Sudan, I have these questions
a lot, even being here. Yesterday, my
uncle was calling me and he said, When are
you finishing? I say, Okay, why does
that question has to come up? So it's like
they don't want you to continue staying in school for
a long time rather than they want you to be
in the social life being a wife, being a
mother and older. So there is big difference here
. It's peaceful. Uh, if you do your
education with all the peace of mind. But in
South Sudan you get those questions, and if you're
not strong, you will end up saying no and
use for higher education. I can, um,
jump in from Asia. You know Nigeria is changing
. Um, I wouldn't know so far because I'm
not seeing that. I've only been around for a
while, but, um, in in Nigeria,
there is a changing understanding of femininity and what it
means to be a woman going to school. Um
, and what that does for the country. Um
, being in the university, studying, um,
is not frowned upon not being married at 30 years
, but being in the university studying. I was
talking earlier, and I was talking about Finance Minister
, who is a woman who was a director of
the World Bank. Came back to be the finance
minister, or her Children went to Harvard. She's
just everything you want to be. Trust me.
Um, and she she kind of began to change
the game. Um, I don't know if you
guys have heard about Chimamanda, um, in Gaza
. Uh, most people know how was, like
the woman of the Beyonce tried, but she's much
more than that shit. Okay, but she it's
also really she she has billboards of her sponsored by
the Nigerian government telling girl was going right. Gonna
start writing go to school. Um, there is
numerous examples of Nigerian journalists who are women. Um
, and it's it's becoming a changing game now,
obviously, being in an urban area how it's perceived
as different from being in a rural area, being
from a certain ethnic ethnic group is different. Um
, um, so But I'll say for the most
part, it's not really the same as it as
it is in South Sudan. But there is an
expectation of marriage. Um, it's not really thrown
at you when you're university, because it's not your
battery yourself. A lot of Nigerian women are taking
by exam. It's becoming increasingly common, becoming doctors
. But you'll definitely face issues, especially surrounding marriage
. I haven't received any marriage phone calls. Yeah
, you can have 19. So they're mostly creepy
. Uh, yeah, I think I think that's
where we are right now. There is definitely a
wind of change for a Nigerian woman. I just
would like to say that I don't think it's bad
to decide to stay at home, to be a
mom. Stay at home, Mom. It's fine
. It's perfectly fine if that's your choice. So
if you have the chance to decide, I want
to be this or I want to speak with my
kids, Perfect. But the problem is that I
think I have the feeling that in many of our
countries it's not like a choice all the time.
It's something that you are forced to do by your
parents or but you're by the society. And because
Marius, Marius, it's good having kids. It's
good. Having a family is wonderful, but it's
having the chance to decide. Well, I want
to do this. I have to. I want
to have it all and that women, we can
have it all. We can have a nice family
. We can have a degree. We can be
as successful of even more than our partner. So
I think that that's the difference and something that our
countries are working on. I think I also think
I'm sorry you had a question I do. In
principle, it's a personal best of questions of being
a woman. I have standards, their signature that
in your personal moment, Steve, find yourself reinforcing
the ideas important people, the ones that except you
are even smaller that essentially grown, become support.
A little means today. This is what people expect
you Exactly. Mm. So is this your part
, certainly reserved. Consider that. Accept payment.
Certainly that will, as I was supposed to serve
and you just see mhm, You know what situations
in the question and other stuff. Well, you
know, I have seen that in my family is
very close relative, and I don't think I could
have said something like that because I just feel it's
not fair. She has to be at home at
lunchtime no matter what. Because even if the food
is already prepared, he's not going to serve himself
. So she has to live whatever she's doing and
be there. So it's something I don't think it's
acceptable. Of course, circumstances vary and, uh
, but but I think it's it's the moment that
man also needs to to realize that they some roles
that they can fulfill. Why? Why a man
a man cannot take care of a kid, change
diapers, cook what? We are supposed to do
that all the time. Yeah. Is Oh,
of course, actually, the fire. You know
I can't fix this table. I can't do this
. In fact, yeah, these are these tiny
things. Yeah, but besides, yeah, um
, I think it's a constant struggle like, even
inside yourself, Um, being brought up in that
society and in in, uh, in that culture
, Um, seeing that happen, I mean,
I can speak for my family, at least that
you know, women in my family, they work
. Um, and, um, they are educated
, and they have jobs, but, um,
I've always seen them also, you know, keep
the house clean and keep the kids, like,
you know, already and everything perfect and the food
cooked and everything. So there. So it's like
a constant struggle. Um, and it's also with
regards to like, being scrutinized for not being married
and, you know, going out and being too
headstrong and, uh, stubborn. And that's what
they call women who want to pursue a career or
education. Um, it's It's just something that you
need to keep telling yourself. And you keep fighting
this battle in your own mind about No, you
know, maybe I should have been married, and
maybe I should have had a family because everybody in
my age group I mean, all of my friends
have kids and they're married, but at the same
time, like no, you know, I can't
be like that I don't want to do that.
And I want to get educated. I want to
get out, even though it means, um,
challenging stuff or people and risking stuff, Um,
in most cases risking, uh, you know,
scrutiny from your own relatives and people. But then
also from the outside and and kind of, I
mean, I've I've seen that it's a fear that
mostly women have inside, um, the fear of
not being accepted because you are more educated than other
people. And then the fear that even if you're
more educated and in in, you know the future
, if you end up getting married to somebody from
your culture, um, if he's not as educated
as you, the fear of being sort of,
you know, offensive to him because he's not as
educated and that is going to come out somewhere or
the other. Um, and so it's like it's
a constant struggle that you need to fight with yourself
and, um, in your brain and your mind
, and you just have to keep strong. It
takes it takes a lot of will and strength.
Actually, you know, it's better we ladies to
fight internally, uh, in the first place.
We have to put like, Okay, I'm a
female and I need to be good in the society
. And also I want to get educated to better
. My life, too, broadened my understanding about
so many things. So it's better on which we
would like to win the two battles in the same
body. Yeah, it's a bit like, you
know, a big battle, but I don't see
it's something very big because I can see from my
mom when she was a teacher. And when I
see the compound is like a compound. If a
woman who stays in the house 24 hours and in
her work she is perfect there, she doesn't miss
her. She's a primary teaching teachers. She doesn't
miss her classes. And she does all her.
Simon the schoolhouse, all house, I mean in
the house. So it's like how we can actually
, uh, much the to and be able to
program our programs and for those men who would like
to see and the dependence in the house would like
you to come and give them the food. I
wonder if they're hungry and I'm still in work.
What are they going to do so. It's not
like I'm making them to do my job as they
understand that serving people is women's job. But the
issue is you are hungry. You need to do
something for yourself. Yeah, instead of waiting for
me, if I come at five, you have
two meals. You have missed them. So why
don't you just go and do something for yourself?
I think that's a good note to end on.
If anyone has further questions for the Panelists, we
can continue these conversations on the side. Um,
thank you so much for sharing your personal stories and
for giving voice to these countries. And these issues
that we hear about you've really brought awareness to.
Somebody shared struggles and, like on a very positive
note, you shared with us your personal strength,
the support of your family and the role models.
And you've also shown us that, um, some
of these cultural perceptions are changing and they can be
overcome. So let's give a big yeah