WEBVTT 00:02.080 --> 00:07.600 Hello everybody! I'm Dr. Maria Elisa Christie. I'm the Director of Women and Gender in International   00:07.600 --> 00:12.720 Development at the Center for International  Research, Education, and Development (CIRED), at   00:12.720 --> 00:17.600 Virginia Tech. Welcome to our virtual Women and Gender in International Development   00:17.600 --> 00:25.200 Discussion series. We are so happy that you  could all join us. Please note that our event   00:25.200 --> 00:30.240 is being recorded and will be available on our  website later. You can turn off your camera if   00:30.240 --> 00:36.320 you don't want your image to be recorded and by  staying on you are consenting to being recorded,   00:36.880 --> 00:40.960 but again you can turn off your camera and  your image won't be there. So before introducing   00:40.960 --> 00:45.520 our speaker I would like to read the  following land and labor acknowledgement   00:45.520 --> 00:53.440 statement. Virginia Tech acknowledges that we live  and work on the Tutelo/ Monacan people's homeland   00:53.440 --> 00:56.880 and we recognize their continued  relationships with the lands and   00:56.880 --> 01:04.160 waterways. We further acknowledge that legislation  and practices like the moral act of 1862 enabled   01:04.160 --> 01:09.120 the commonwealth of virginia to finance and  found virginia tech through the forced removal   01:10.960 --> 01:15.360 of native nations from their lands  both locally and in western territories.   01:16.640 --> 01:19.680 We understand that honoring  native peoples without explicit   01:19.680 --> 01:23.440 material commitments falls short of  our institutional responsibilities.   01:24.400 --> 01:28.880 Through sustained, transparent, and meaningful  engagement with the Tutelo/ Monacan peoples,   01:29.440 --> 01:35.200 and other native nations, we commit to changing  the trajectory of Virginia Tech's history by   01:35.200 --> 01:41.760 increasing indigenous students staff and faculty  recruitment and retention, diversifying course   01:41.760 --> 01:46.560 offerings and meeting the growing needs of all  Virginia tribes and supporting their sovereignty.   01:47.280 --> 01:52.480 We must also recognize that enslaved Black  people generated revenue and resources used   01:52.480 --> 02:00.240 to establish Virginia tech and were prohibited  from attending until 1953. Their inclusive VT,   02:00.240 --> 02:05.840 the institutional and individual commitment to Ut  Prosim (that I may serve) in the spirit of community,   02:05.840 --> 02:11.760 diversity, and excellence, we commit to advancing  a more diverse equitable and inclusive community. 02:13.840 --> 02:18.560 So the full calendar and any updates for this  year's Women and Gender Development Discussion   02:18.560 --> 02:26.320 Series can be seen on our website I think.  uh Maybe you can put in the chat the website.   02:26.320 --> 02:31.520 So some housekeeping uh this discussion  will last approximately 40 minutes.   02:31.520 --> 02:36.480 Our speaker's presentation will last around 20  minutes followed by 20 minutes of discussion   02:36.480 --> 02:43.440 and Q&A. All dial-in participants will be muted to  enable the speaker to present without interruption.   02:44.800 --> 02:49.840 You're welcome to post any question you would like  in the chat box and you can post them at any time   02:51.840 --> 02:54.640 and I will read them to our speaker  at the end of a presentation.   02:55.680 --> 02:59.680 If we have time and there are more questions  after those in the chat people can raise their   02:59.680 --> 03:04.880 hand in the webinar control and we will unmute  you so that you can ask Dr. Colverson a question   03:04.880 --> 03:09.200 or make your comment directly after the end  of the session. Towards the end of the session   03:09.920 --> 03:14.880 in order for our discussion to be as rich as  it can be we need everyone to be respectful   03:14.880 --> 03:19.680 and to treat all participants with kindness and  consideration without discriminatory behavior.   03:21.040 --> 03:25.200 As I said the webinar is being recorded and  you will have access to it via our website.   03:26.000 --> 03:32.560 At the end we will be sending a link to  a survey and please do answer it as it is   03:32.560 --> 03:38.720 very important for us to get our feedback and  then if you could tweet us those of you who   03:39.440 --> 03:47.440 are on twitter by tagging us at wgd_vt so somebody could put that in the chat .  03:47.440 --> 03:54.560 Now I'm going to introduce our speaker Dr.  Kathy Colverson is an Associate Research Scientist   03:55.200 --> 03:59.680 with the University of Florida's Animal  Science Department and Institute of Food and   03:59.680 --> 04:05.680 Agricultural Sciences, IFAS. Dr. Colverson  also serves as Senior Gender Specialist   04:05.680 --> 04:11.920 Gender Specialist for the USAID funded Feed  the Future Innovation Lab for livestock systems   04:11.920 --> 04:18.400 and has over 30 years of experience with gender  analysis assessments publications and evaluations   04:18.400 --> 04:25.200 in East Africa, Central America, the Caribbean,  Middle East, Southeast Asia, and the United States.   04:25.760 --> 04:32.240 In addition, she has over 25 years of experience  working with small and limited resource farmers   04:32.240 --> 04:40.880 and communities to create sustainable practices  in production marketing food safety and gender   04:40.880 --> 04:46.080 equitable project planning with an emphasis on  livestock production and value chain development.   04:46.720 --> 04:53.280 Currently she is also a Co-PI on an ongoing DFID-  IDRC funded agricultural research for development   04:53.280 --> 05:00.480 program called "Advancing women's participation in  livestock vaccine value chains in Nepal, Senegal   05:00.480 --> 05:07.040 and Uganda". And the title of her talk today  is engaging men in supporting maternal and   05:07.040 --> 05:14.640 child consumption of milk and other animal source  foods in Rwanda. Please welcome Dr. Kathy Colverson!   05:16.640 --> 05:21.280 Thank you very much Maria Elisa, that's a  lovely introduction. I'm going to go ahead and   05:21.280 --> 05:25.280 start screen sharing here but delighted  to have everybody join us today. 05:31.840 --> 05:33.760 All right hopefully everyone can see that 05:35.920 --> 05:40.960 Is that visible for everyone? okay very good.  Thank you well for those of you folks who may not   05:40.960 --> 05:48.560 have uh seen this type of illustration in the past.  Let me see if I can get this a little bit larger, I   05:48.560 --> 05:54.720 think hopefully that will work. This is actually  a graphic illustration of a value chain and for   05:54.720 --> 06:00.160 those of you who may never have really discussed  or decided what a value chain is in the past this   06:00.160 --> 06:06.320 is what it looks like if it's actually been drawn  and a value chain is anything from the production   06:06.320 --> 06:11.520 all the way to the consumption of an animal  source food product or a crop or anything that   06:11.520 --> 06:16.960 is associated with an agricultural commodity but I  just thought this was a particularly illustrative   06:17.600 --> 06:24.080 picture of what an African dairy value chain  looks like as we will be discussing this in   06:24.080 --> 06:28.640 today's presentation. So I'm delighted  to be here and as Maria Elisa has said   06:29.200 --> 06:36.160 I will be talking about engaging men in supporting  maternal and child consumption of milk and other   06:36.160 --> 06:40.960 animal source foods in Rwanda. I've been doing  quite a bit of work in Rwanda associated with   06:40.960 --> 06:47.040 the USAID funded livestock systems innovation lab  where I'm the senior gender scientist and we've   06:47.040 --> 06:51.680 been having a lot of fun with that uh the project  work that we're doing there but I'm going to talk   06:51.680 --> 06:56.960 particularly about one that has had a great  deal of impact on women and children in Rwanda. 07:00.080 --> 07:07.280 All right let me see if I can get this to behave  itself here all right okay we'll get this from   07:07.840 --> 07:12.640 the beginning here the project background I'm  going to be talking about is really based on the   07:12.640 --> 07:17.040 needs that we decided and determined through  some initial research through a much larger   07:17.680 --> 07:22.800 livestock innovation lab funded project and  it really looked at what are the issues around   07:22.800 --> 07:28.400 maternal and child nutrition specifically as  they relate to the dairy value chain in Rwanda   07:29.040 --> 07:33.360 so many of you will be aware of the fact when  we think about gender issues we're talking   07:33.360 --> 07:38.880 about not only women but about men and boys and  young girls and so when we think about issues   07:38.880 --> 07:44.080 associated with nutrition particularly  maternal and child nutrition practices   07:44.080 --> 07:48.160 we need to understand that for most countries  in the world particularly low and middle   07:48.160 --> 07:54.000 income this is considered the sole responsibility  of women. So again when you think about household   07:54.000 --> 07:59.280 nutrition when we think about feeding children  it's predominantly women that we are considering   08:00.240 --> 08:05.920 but something to be aware of is that men can  actually influence the nutrition in their   08:05.920 --> 08:10.640 household not only if they're involved in joint  decision making and we're going to talk about   08:10.640 --> 08:15.520 decision making later because this is very  important but also control of resources such   08:15.520 --> 08:21.520 as the income that's generated from animals food  products as well as the actual products themselves   08:21.520 --> 08:27.280 the meat the milk the eggs that are generated  from the livestock but they can also be a form of   08:27.280 --> 08:32.720 social support for their wives and their daughters  who are involved in the dairy value chain   08:34.640 --> 08:40.960 but despite the roles and the importance of men in  influencing nutrition it's important to recognize   08:40.960 --> 08:45.680 that most governments and most extension and  non-profit organizations that work particularly   08:45.680 --> 08:51.680 in Rwanda target women because the men are not  comfortable in participating in these programs as   08:51.680 --> 08:58.160 they perceive it to be a woman's role. So there's  very little evidence really that has been found on   08:58.160 --> 09:03.840 ways to more effectively involve men in maternal  and child nutrition particularly because of their   09:03.840 --> 09:11.040 role in influencing how the products are consumed  or sold so this project was created specifically   09:11.040 --> 09:16.880 to look at ways that we could create strategies to  more effectively engage men in household nutrition   09:18.480 --> 09:22.320 as in all international development projects  there's usually a large interdisciplinary   09:22.320 --> 09:28.640 team involved and Dr. Emily Ouma who is an  aggregate agricultural economist associated   09:28.640 --> 09:33.840 with the International Livestock Research  Institute is based in Uganda but works very   09:33.840 --> 09:40.080 frequently in Rwanda and she basically led the  charge on this project Dr. Valerie Flax who's a   09:40.080 --> 09:46.880 nutritionist and is based in North Carolina worked  with us along with a very excellent non-profit   09:46.880 --> 09:52.720 organization called Three Stones International  with Jesse and Mary-Ann who are based in Kigali   09:52.720 --> 09:57.680 and we're our in-country coordinators as well  as our in-country staff and then of course I   09:57.680 --> 10:03.200 was involved as well as Dr. Alessandra Galie who  is a gender scientist associated with ILRI   10:03.200 --> 10:08.720 and is based in Nairobi, Kenya. So a little  bit more on this project to understand why   10:08.720 --> 10:12.880 this was important and the kinds of things that  that we did in the strategies that we created.   10:13.760 --> 10:18.960 We basically were interested in developing,  implementing and evaluating an intervention   10:18.960 --> 10:25.040 that would be involved in helping men to engage  more actively in maternal and child nutrition   10:25.040 --> 10:30.160 particularly around milk and animal source  food consumption and specifically around milk   10:30.880 --> 10:36.240 and this project is part of a much larger  livestock systems innovation lab funded project   10:36.240 --> 10:41.440 calling enhancing milk quality and consumption  for improved income and nutrition in Rwanda   10:41.440 --> 10:47.280 that Dr. Emily Ouma also head up as the primary  investigator and the link to that project is   10:47.280 --> 10:51.280 here because there are a number of different  reports and project briefs that are associated   10:51.280 --> 10:57.280 with that project that you can review at your own  leisure and this project was involved in targeting   10:57.280 --> 11:03.200 women with young children in households that  have received a cow usually a holstein through   11:03.200 --> 11:09.360 the government of Rwanda's one cow per poor family  program which is also known as the Girinka program.   11:09.360 --> 11:15.360 This program was created after the genocide  about 25 years ago and um the product actually   11:15.360 --> 11:20.080 the project was created about 15 years ago but  the genocide occurred about 25 years ago because   11:20.080 --> 11:25.120 many of the cows that were in the country were  slaughtered during the genocide as were many of   11:25.120 --> 11:32.400 the men associated with those that were involved  in in living in Rwanda. Very horrible time but the   11:32.400 --> 11:37.360 government was trying to make amends by helping  to improve the nutrition through giving a cow to   11:37.360 --> 11:44.400 the poor families that it identified in Rwanda. The  interesting to understand about this program and   11:44.400 --> 11:48.640 I've actually done some work specifically on  this at looking at the Girinka program from a   11:48.640 --> 11:53.280 gender lens and if you are interested there are  references at the end of this presentation that   11:53.280 --> 11:59.200 will direct you to the papers that I've written  on this is that the program did have many benefits   11:59.200 --> 12:04.720 particularly associated with community cohesion by  bringing together people that had not been brought   12:04.720 --> 12:10.480 together in the past as well as in improving  actually income within the household and there was   12:10.480 --> 12:17.200 an indication that household nutrition had been  improved. However, the actual direct measurements   12:17.200 --> 12:21.680 of this improvement in nutrition had never been  measured so we were very interested in looking   12:21.680 --> 12:26.080 at what the government said and what actually had  happened particularly associated with women and   12:26.080 --> 12:31.040 young children. So the initial project that Ii mentioned previously this larger project   12:31.040 --> 12:36.480 decided to focus not only on looking at the  consumption of household produced milk but to work   12:36.480 --> 12:42.080 with the families through the government using  community health workers to provide training as   12:42.080 --> 12:48.160 well as collect documentation on how the milk that  was being produced through the Girinka program was   12:48.160 --> 12:54.640 being used and I'll just give you a spoiler  alert most of it was sold, it was not consumed.   12:55.600 --> 12:59.600 So a little bit more in the project background  particularly from a gender perspective.   12:59.600 --> 13:03.760 I mentioned that the community health  workers were involved in providing training   13:03.760 --> 13:09.760 which again predominantly was targeting women and  obviously young children but we were interested in   13:09.760 --> 13:12.880 finding ways to get the men more involved  in this because it's really important to   13:12.880 --> 13:17.360 consider the overall household nutrition and  not just the nutrition specifically of the   13:17.360 --> 13:22.560 women. But the problem we had was that men really  participate in the meetings due to the fact that   13:22.560 --> 13:27.680 they believe that the meetings and anything  to do with household nutrition is primarily   13:27.680 --> 13:33.520 the domain of women. So they don't consider it  appropriate to participate and also the places   13:33.520 --> 13:37.760 where the trainings were taking place mainly  health centers and community nutrition sites   13:38.400 --> 13:43.520 are largely viewed as female spaces. So this  is something to consider if you're going to   13:43.520 --> 13:48.000 be doing training in the future and you wish  to engage both men and women you need to think   13:48.000 --> 13:53.520 very carefully about location particularly how is  that location perceived from a gender perspective.   13:54.400 --> 13:59.840 However as we mentioned previously the men can  influence nutrition within the household through   13:59.840 --> 14:04.480 the decisions that are being made because in  most households particularly Rwanda, particularly   14:04.480 --> 14:10.400 in poor rural areas the men are the predominant  decision makers and they can make decisions about   14:10.400 --> 14:17.440 how and why the plants are livestock are raised,  how they are managed and how to use the income   14:17.440 --> 14:23.200 that is generated from the sale of those products  and this is really important again as I say   14:23.200 --> 14:28.320 mentioning the Girinka program because of the fact  that the milk that was produced from this program   14:28.320 --> 14:31.680 ended up primarily being sold rather  than consumed within the household.   14:33.520 --> 14:39.040 So project activities associated with a specific  project included we wanted to conduct formative   14:39.040 --> 14:45.120 research by doing separate focus group discussions  with men and women key informant interviews and   14:45.120 --> 14:51.360 then participatory workshops that looked at  issues related to gender and nutrition. We also   14:51.360 --> 14:56.960 wanted to do research specifically associated  with assessing men and women's perceptions   14:56.960 --> 15:02.480 of their roles in nutrition and the gender, the  gender dynamics that affect their roles within   15:02.480 --> 15:08.800 the household. We were also interested in looking  at ways that we can assess men's preferences   15:08.800 --> 15:15.600 on ways they would like to be engaged in maternal  and child nutrition as well as women's preferences   15:15.600 --> 15:21.200 on how they would like the men to be engaged  this was the fascinating part as far as I'm   15:21.200 --> 15:25.840 concerned of the research because they both  had very different perceptions of each other.   15:26.800 --> 15:31.280 So activities continuing we  basically use this research intervene   15:31.280 --> 15:36.560 information to develop an intervention which  included developing a training of trainers package   15:36.560 --> 15:41.360 which I did, and then I actually had to deliver  via zoom because of the COVID restrictions.   15:41.360 --> 15:45.440 uh it was actually quite successful and  and entertaining to do that as as well   15:46.000 --> 15:50.160 and that's available also on our website  for the livestock systems innovation lab.   15:50.160 --> 15:55.360 We then wanted to track the participation among  the men who were trained in this cohort as well   15:55.360 --> 16:01.840 as the work that they did with husbands and sons  in the communities afterwards by doing structured   16:01.840 --> 16:06.960 observations of the way they used the training  materials and then we wanted to conduct a mixed   16:06.960 --> 16:13.200 methods evaluation of the intervention and collect  data on the knowledge attitudes and practices   16:13.200 --> 16:18.080 related to maternal and child nutrition  specifically around milk and animal source   16:18.080 --> 16:22.560 food consumption so we did a pre and post  assessment of all the trainings and then   16:23.280 --> 16:28.160 had structured observations of the men that  were using these training materials afterwards   16:28.160 --> 16:34.880 to see how effective they were. So preliminary  results of the surveys that we did showed a lot of   16:34.880 --> 16:40.160 interesting things, number one obviously both men  and women are involved in household food security   16:40.160 --> 16:45.760 but as we mentioned previously their roles  differ significantly and we are writing up all   16:45.760 --> 16:50.000 the details associated with the research on this  which will also be made available in the livestock   16:50.000 --> 16:55.840 systems innovation lab website. Men generally  provide money to purchase animal source foods   16:55.840 --> 17:00.560 and fruits whereas women prepare the foods  and supplement the diets with vegetables,   17:00.560 --> 17:06.960 chickens and eggs, roots and tubers and for those  of you who have worked uh anywhere in Africa and   17:06.960 --> 17:11.440 particularly actually anywhere in the world  you understand that women and children usually   17:11.440 --> 17:16.400 have more responsibility for smaller livestock  such as chickens which is why they can actually   17:16.400 --> 17:22.800 control some of the income associated with the  production of both the meat and the eggs. We also   17:23.760 --> 17:27.520 were involved with working with the community  health workers as I mentioned previously in   17:27.520 --> 17:32.400 government employees who provided training on  child nutrition in the balanced diets to the women   17:33.120 --> 17:36.880 they also are the ones that are providing  these cows for the Girinka program   17:36.880 --> 17:41.280 to increase consumption of animal source food.  So it's very important to have them involved   17:41.280 --> 17:47.600 in the qualitative surveys and the results. Some  of the interesting things that came out of these   17:47.600 --> 17:53.120 surveys and I mentioned previously is what do  women want men to know about nutrition and how   17:53.120 --> 17:59.200 can they be helpful in the household when it comes  to household nutrition. Number one, the women were   17:59.200 --> 18:05.440 interested that men should actually be trained by  professional nutritionists or village elders who   18:05.440 --> 18:11.120 have been trained by the community health workers  about how to prepare balanced meals for children.   18:12.080 --> 18:17.680 They are also interested in having the men being  trained on the importance of milk consumption   18:17.680 --> 18:22.240 for children in the household instead of  automatically selling the milk for income   18:22.240 --> 18:26.640 because we can't be guaranteed that the income  that is being generated is going to be used on   18:26.640 --> 18:31.120 household nutrition. The other thing they were  really interested in and I thought this was   18:31.120 --> 18:35.360 fascinating because I'm involved in a couple of  food safety projects in Ethiopia where we are   18:35.360 --> 18:41.360 looking at food hygiene and particularly  food pathogens and food-borne diseases   18:41.360 --> 18:45.600 is that men should be trained on milk  hygiene and safe handling of dairy products   18:45.600 --> 18:51.040 especially the dangers of raw milk due to  lack of pasteurization and what I have seen   18:51.040 --> 18:56.480 in different countries associated with raw milk  is that basically when the milking takes place   18:56.480 --> 19:02.080 it's usually the woman that does the milking. She  may or may not clean the animal's udder prior to   19:02.080 --> 19:08.240 milking, she may or may not attempt to pasteurize  the milk and if she does attempt to boil the milk   19:08.240 --> 19:12.800 there is no thermometer gauge and there is  no timing as far as how long the milk boiling   19:12.800 --> 19:17.920 takes place so there's no indication whether or  not the foodborne pathogens that are associated   19:17.920 --> 19:23.840 with uh the raw milk that is being consumed have  been destroyed. So this is a really big big issue.   19:24.400 --> 19:29.600 We also looked at the most effective places and  methods of sharing nutrition information with the   19:29.600 --> 19:35.200 men and this was looking at things like media  such as newspapers, radio messages, posters and   19:35.200 --> 19:40.960 sms messages through their cell phones we looked  at different locations that weren't perceived as   19:40.960 --> 19:46.560 exclusively women domains such as churches, market  centers and and cooperatives particularly farming   19:46.560 --> 19:53.280 cooperatives, and they also were interested in the  fact that women can transmit information better   19:53.280 --> 19:57.680 than the community health workers if they are  trained well. So we're actually considering now   19:57.680 --> 20:03.680 whether or not we should create training for the  women specifically around nutrition to educate   20:03.680 --> 20:08.320 their husbands that's going to be another whole  discussion at some point. We're also obviously   20:08.320 --> 20:12.320 always looking at ways that we can train men and  women together and considering some of these other   20:12.320 --> 20:18.560 items that I've just mentioned those are important  to to factor into the equation so following the   20:18.560 --> 20:22.480 survey results we did a variety of different  things after we got the information that I just   20:22.480 --> 20:29.440 presented, I created a series of virtual workshops  on strategies to engage men in household nutrition   20:29.440 --> 20:34.320 and trained both three stones international and  the ILRI partners. Again this was a virtual   20:34.320 --> 20:38.720 workshop so these materials are available on  our livestock systems innovation lab website.   20:39.760 --> 20:44.960 Then three stones international took the  information from this workshop and the materials   20:44.960 --> 20:49.920 and basically nuanced it to be able to turn it  into stuff that would be useful for the local   20:49.920 --> 20:55.440 facilitators and translated the final messages  into Kenya, Rwanda so they could actually use   20:55.440 --> 21:04.320 this out in the field very appropriately. They then  took the the facilitators that were trained and uh   21:04.320 --> 21:09.040 did training in two different districts with  a variety of different community environmental   21:09.040 --> 21:15.440 health officers, 21 model fathers along with two  additional district representatives in each one of   21:15.440 --> 21:21.200 these these districts in Rwanda. The participants  that were involved in these trainings did a   21:21.840 --> 21:27.440 pre and post knowledge assessment and in  general they learned quite a lot about nutrition   21:27.440 --> 21:32.560 but the issue that we discovered is that they did  not get enough information on safe handling of   21:32.560 --> 21:37.440 milk products and so obviously when we go back  and consider revising the training materials   21:37.440 --> 21:42.880 in the future this is something we're going to be  looking at. I mentioned that we did do a variety of   21:42.880 --> 21:46.800 different things with model father facilitators  who then went out into the communities   21:47.360 --> 21:53.200 and they conducted an activity to reach these  intervention fathers and community members using   21:53.200 --> 21:58.800 key messages and some of this was done through  SMS messaging on cell phones. I'm just going to   21:58.800 --> 22:04.960 give you some quick numbers here. We were able  to reach 224 men and 38 women with the CEHO uh the   22:04.960 --> 22:12.880 community health uh workers and the model fathers  and in Nyabihu, we reached 370 men and 210 women   22:13.520 --> 22:19.200 and we delivered one key message weekly by SMS  to each of the intervention fathers to follow up   22:19.200 --> 22:24.480 on the training that they had received. Overall  the facilitators in these different regions and   22:24.480 --> 22:29.040 I'll put this up, receive fairly high ratings  on their information related to nutrition,   22:29.040 --> 22:35.280 their facilitation skills and their attitudes but  as you see when we get into technical information   22:35.280 --> 22:40.960 particularly around milk safe handling practices  they were rated fairly low. So we're going to   22:40.960 --> 22:46.080 have to go back and revisit our training materials  specifically around these areas because then that   22:46.080 --> 22:50.080 was not a high area of focus and obviously  that was important particularly to the women.   22:51.120 --> 22:54.560 So obviously we had some challenges  throughout this entire project.   22:54.560 --> 22:59.760 We have had to receive a project extension because  of the coveted restrictions that we had throughout   22:59.760 --> 23:05.280 the entire project. We had difficulty obviously  accessing the the villages and the communities we   23:05.280 --> 23:09.840 were going to work in accessing the people we were  going to be collecting initial survey data from   23:10.400 --> 23:16.080 but we've been able to do it slowly but surely  and conduct the visits that we wanted to and   23:16.080 --> 23:21.840 we have continued to provide the SMS messages  on a weekly basis and we also have a telephone   23:21.840 --> 23:26.640 hotline that remains open particularly for the  people that we trained and for the intervention   23:26.640 --> 23:31.360 fathers as well. So I'm going to post a couple  of other little items that are available for you.   23:31.920 --> 23:37.120 There was a video that was created specifically  for talking about the the training that took   23:37.120 --> 23:41.520 place from the three stones international  facilitators to the intervention fathers in   23:41.520 --> 23:46.320 the different villages and that's available on  YouTube and as I mentioned previously we also   23:46.320 --> 23:51.760 have uh more reports and information available  on the livestock systems innovation lab website   23:51.760 --> 23:56.800 particularly associated with the larger project  and if you're really interested in the papers   23:56.800 --> 24:02.160 that I wrote on looking at the Girinka project  from a gender lens you can find that link at   24:02.160 --> 24:17.840 the very bottom of the page and I think that's  all I have to say. So happy to take questions 24:20.560 --> 24:21.060 okay 24:23.360 --> 24:31.840 Okay so um let's see we have a couple of questions 24:34.400 --> 24:38.960 I think we need to somehow mute there's noise  coming in I don't know if we can mute the people   24:38.960 --> 24:45.280 um or I mean ask anybody to mute themselves  that is not muted um because we're getting   24:45.280 --> 24:51.600 some interference. Okay well let's see let me start  with a question from uh Dr. Larry Vaughn here at   24:51.600 --> 24:57.600 Virginia Tech. He says was there consideration  of teaching both boys and girls about   24:57.600 --> 25:02.400 nutrition in school so that they will have this  knowledge when they become fathers and mothers?   25:03.600 --> 25:08.320 That is an excellent question and I wish we would  have had the funds to do something like that   25:08.320 --> 25:12.640 because we have had discussions about that  associated with other projects in the past   25:12.640 --> 25:16.480 and I actually have been involved in previous  projects where we have done that where we've   25:16.480 --> 25:22.560 actually worked in schools particularly to train  young children about nutrition and some of the   25:22.560 --> 25:26.960 concerns that they might have around balancing  nutrition in their households but I'm afraid   25:27.600 --> 25:29.680 on this project we didn't have the funds or the or   25:29.680 --> 25:32.800 the time available to do that but a  great great suggestion for the future. 25:35.920 --> 25:43.840 Okay let's see so um just want to say um Lumbini,  could you look up the did you see Maggie wrote the   25:43.840 --> 25:49.040 question about um what is the link of your gender  training package? maybe if you could go to the    25:49.040 --> 25:55.840 to the um or Daniel if you can go to the  innovation labs page and look for that   25:56.560 --> 26:00.320 Okay it should be listed  hopefully under the the last   26:00.320 --> 26:06.880 um link on that last slide I presented  that specifically looks at what we call our   26:07.680 --> 26:13.600 gender and youth page so hopefully if you click  on that link that should be able to bring it up   26:13.600 --> 26:18.240 and if it's not posted at this point it's  probably because our communications person   26:18.240 --> 26:23.840 has been overwhelmed but I will double  check and make sure it gets posted okay um 26:28.000 --> 26:32.960 let's see um all right so Daniel you had a question.  First of all I say thank you for your great   26:32.960 --> 26:39.520 presentation. uh for those model fathers trained  by three stones how do you think their status   26:39.520 --> 26:44.800 with other men changed after the intervention? What  did other men in the community think about their   26:44.800 --> 26:51.680 messages and model behaviors? That is a superb  question I'd love that um I don't know to be   26:51.680 --> 26:56.720 honest with you if they have followed up on that  but I think that they probably will be because I   26:56.720 --> 27:02.160 know three stones international is very interested  in how they can scale up this training to larger   27:02.160 --> 27:08.320 numbers of model fathers but I will specifically  mention that to them um as I say I'm sure that   27:08.320 --> 27:12.800 they're going to do this but I know that Rwanda  is still having massive amounts of restrictions   27:12.800 --> 27:19.840 associated with COVID, but I think that's an  excellent excellent suggestion for a follow-up. 27:20.480 --> 27:25.120 Okay I'm gonna combine, I had two questions and  and I'd like to encourage people to put some more   27:25.120 --> 27:33.840 questions in the chat because um this is the last  question that I have but so I'm interested in uh   27:35.120 --> 27:41.920 the experience of reaching people despite covid  using these alternative methods like SMS and you   27:41.920 --> 27:46.560 know different information communication  technologies now we usually are like   27:46.560 --> 27:50.080 trying to get more women involved because there  are less women involved in this case you're   27:50.080 --> 27:54.560 trying to get more men involved so things are  different but I'm wondering if you've reflected on   27:55.680 --> 28:02.080 you know how does this use of information and  communication technologies um what are the pros   28:02.080 --> 28:07.920 and cons or what are the you know have you thought  about you know how does it increase participation   28:07.920 --> 28:13.360 or decrease participation of men and women  specifically because of that kind of approach?   28:13.360 --> 28:17.600 That's an excellent question and I've been  thinking about this not only just related to   28:17.600 --> 28:22.480 this project but also related to everything  we've been doing over the past two years   28:22.480 --> 28:27.520 is that are we seeing increased numbers of people  being able to attend different functions because   28:27.520 --> 28:33.360 they are on zoom and on internet and in some  instances yes I would say that is indeed the case.   28:33.360 --> 28:39.280 The biggest challenge that we are facing um is  associated with internet connectivity and many   28:39.280 --> 28:44.480 of the places that we're working are extremely  rural and unless we can bring people into places   28:44.480 --> 28:49.600 where they have good internet connectivity to be  able to do these uh workshops and these seminars   28:49.600 --> 28:53.840 and these trainings that we're trying to do  it's really challenging and COVID obviously   28:53.840 --> 28:58.240 has made that much more difficult because we are  only allowed to have a certain number of people   28:58.240 --> 29:02.880 together in a room. I can't remember what the  exact number is but it varies depending on the   29:02.880 --> 29:08.880 organization that we're working with and obviously  they have to wear masks etc etc um so in some   29:08.880 --> 29:12.960 instances yes I would say we're seeing increased  numbers of attendance from both men and women.   29:13.760 --> 29:18.480 It depends on again where the location  is that they're able to access internet   29:18.480 --> 29:22.800 but um I think in the future as we move  forward I think there's going to be greater   29:22.800 --> 29:28.640 use of this technology because it reduces  the cost tremendously for uh having to bring   29:28.640 --> 29:34.400 people together and you know face-to-face  workshops but of course we lose um some of   29:34.400 --> 29:39.120 the the value obviously of face-to-face as  well but I think in the future we're going   29:39.120 --> 29:42.400 to see a great deal more of this is my sense  and I don't know what your experience has been   29:43.040 --> 29:48.640 Maria Elisa but um I think uh just thinking about  the CG gender platform meeting for those of us who   29:48.640 --> 29:55.440 attended that last week I was in shock how many  people had registered because I've done a couple   29:55.440 --> 30:01.200 of face-to-face conferences with them in the past  where we maybe get if we're lucky a hundred maybe   30:01.200 --> 30:07.840 150 people show up face to face they had 1100  people registered as participants so that just   30:07.840 --> 30:13.600 shows you that there was a tremendous amount of  interest and availability using this technology 30:18.320 --> 30:22.720 I'll come back to that when we get to  discussion but I'd like to read Maggie's um   30:22.720 --> 30:28.640 question she asked will the gender training Maggie  Zen ask will the gender training materials be used   30:28.640 --> 30:33.520 by and shared with local organizations  and other organizations in the country   30:33.520 --> 30:38.080 and the region after your project ends. Absolutely,  well three stones international has already taken   30:38.080 --> 30:44.320 it and run with it and they are a local non-profit  organization based in Kigali and um I am sure that   30:44.320 --> 30:48.560 ILRI, the international livestock research  institute which has a very strong presence   30:48.560 --> 30:53.280 in Rwanda will be using them as well because  they were very interested in ways to engage   30:53.280 --> 30:59.040 men more actively in household nutrition  so I think we will definitely be using them   30:59.040 --> 31:03.280 certainly in Rwanda with the partners that we  have been working with but I have a suspicion   31:03.280 --> 31:07.120 that we may take these and adapt them to other  locations that the livestock systems innovation   31:07.120 --> 31:12.720 lab is working with as well and we work a lot  with not only universities but also government   31:12.720 --> 31:17.840 as well as nonprofit organizations in  about half a dozen different countries. 31:20.720 --> 31:25.920 Okay here's another question that I want to be  able to come back to in discussion but Ali Wilson   31:25.920 --> 31:31.360 wrote what are more examples of spaces to have  meetings or trainings that are not considered   31:31.360 --> 31:36.720 female oriented that might bring in more public  turnout? That's an excellent question because   31:36.720 --> 31:41.360 you know I'm just thinking about the trainings  I've done in the past where I frequently will   31:41.360 --> 31:48.320 use schools but again that's often considered to  be a female space because of women's involvement   31:48.320 --> 31:54.800 with their children's education. Churches are a  little bit more neutral because usually men and   31:54.800 --> 32:00.400 women will go to churches as we mentioned  in this slide presentation. Cooperatives   32:00.960 --> 32:06.320 particularly associated if we're looking at male  farming cooperatives which you know usually is is   32:06.320 --> 32:11.760 where you're going to find a lot of men but one of  the things I've been talking to Dr. Emily um about   32:11.760 --> 32:19.680 is where do men go? They go to bars and we're  actually considering kind of an innovative way of   32:19.680 --> 32:25.440 thinking about maybe creating some posters or some  messages that we could target men where they go.   32:26.880 --> 32:31.360 So that hasn't been tried yet but I think  we're going to start looking at some innovative   32:31.360 --> 32:35.440 methodologies because certainly if you if  you're trying to find gender-neutral spaces   32:36.000 --> 32:40.720 that is challenging in some of the areas  that we're working in but I would say   32:40.720 --> 32:48.240 you know schools maybe but definitely churches,  cooperatives um possibly uh community buildings   32:48.240 --> 32:53.360 within the the villages uh it's just  really thinking carefully about what   32:53.360 --> 32:57.360 might be considered to be a gender-neutral space  where both men and women feel comfortable going. 33:00.560 --> 33:02.880 Let's see do we have any  more questions or shall we   33:03.600 --> 33:08.880 Oh here's a question. Okay this question from  Daniel um Kathy could you elaborate on the   33:08.880 --> 33:14.000 work you did with the Girinka team to reflect  upon their own perspectives of gender norms   33:14.000 --> 33:20.800 and attitudes before working to shift attitudes  with livestock razors in Rwanda? oh that's a   33:20.800 --> 33:27.280 great question Daniel. Well let me tell you right  now that that was a rather interesting project   33:29.120 --> 33:33.840 and the reason I say this is because the initial  paper that came out on that the government of   33:33.840 --> 33:39.760 Rwanda refused to allow me to publish it and that  was due to the fact they didn't like the numbers   33:40.720 --> 33:45.600 and so it took me about a year but I had to  go back and forth and massage the numbers   33:46.160 --> 33:50.480 and use their statistics before they  would allow us to publish the paper   33:52.080 --> 33:56.080 we have subsequently you know presented that  information that's been published in a journal   33:57.120 --> 34:02.800 and we've presented both the government  as well as the USAID mission in Rwanda but   34:03.760 --> 34:08.480 it's an interesting thought to think  about when you're doing research in other   34:08.480 --> 34:16.160 countries what is the process to actually get the  information released that hasn't been manipulated   34:17.440 --> 34:24.160 and for those of you who are publishing using uh  other countries statistics we had it was a very   34:24.160 --> 34:27.840 strong learning experience for us in the  livestock lab and we have subsequently   34:27.840 --> 34:31.840 discovered that other countries that we're  working in have some of the same restrictions   34:31.840 --> 34:37.040 that you need to actually make sure that your  your initial draft of your paper goes through   34:37.040 --> 34:44.640 the government officials first before it's allowed  to be published so that's all I can say is that we   34:44.640 --> 34:49.840 we released the information, it was presented  to the government, we got the publication out.   34:51.360 --> 34:55.280 I would say they recognize that there are  issues associated with the fact that the   34:55.280 --> 35:00.320 milk is being sold rather than consumed and  they are making efforts to try and change   35:00.320 --> 35:04.320 that and they're very interested actually  in the way that Emily Ouma's project has   35:04.320 --> 35:09.280 unfolded and the possibilities of actually  trying to increase household milk consumption. 35:11.360 --> 35:12.880 So I hope that answered your question Daniel. 35:15.680 --> 35:21.200 Okay we have two more questions here. One from  Elizabeth Dennis. She says you mentioned that some   35:21.200 --> 35:26.480 wives had proven to be more effective at teaching  the material. Is there a little apathy or other   35:26.480 --> 35:32.560 perception challenge due to potentially perceived  outsiders presenting to workshops? Will any of the   35:32.560 --> 35:37.840 men be trained to present the information to  other men? Well currently there are men that are   35:37.840 --> 35:43.520 being trained that are trained they're um what  we call the the intervention fathers and they   35:43.520 --> 35:48.640 are the ones that are training community fathers  at this point um and again the desire is to scale   35:48.640 --> 35:54.400 this project up to affect many more communities  than we currently have but why do they prefer to   35:54.400 --> 35:59.360 have their wives, I think it's probably because  it's the information that's being presented is   35:59.360 --> 36:04.480 more nuanced to the household uh I don't know  that specifically but that's what I'm assuming   36:04.480 --> 36:10.560 um what's fascinating is I had somebody bring  this up um on another conversation I had about   36:10.560 --> 36:16.640 this idea of actually creating training materials  or training uh specifically for the wives and how   36:16.640 --> 36:22.240 they could then relay this information to their  husbands if that's a more effective mechanism for   36:22.240 --> 36:25.920 getting the husbands to participate in household  nutrition. So that's something we're going to   36:25.920 --> 36:29.680 consider in the future but I think it's  probably because they say the wives take   36:29.680 --> 36:33.920 the information that they've learned and they  nuance it more specifically to their household. 36:38.080 --> 36:43.200 Let's see, I have another one from Maggie. um  Can you provide more details how model father   36:43.760 --> 36:49.120 works? how model fathers work in this project? It  seems a very effective way to encourage men to   36:49.120 --> 36:54.240 engage and participate and change gender norms  as men can influence each other's behaviors. What   36:54.240 --> 37:00.000 can be learned for adapting to other countries  contexts? no I'd say that's an excellent question   37:00.000 --> 37:04.880 as I mentioned I think at the beginning  of the presentation there isn't a lot of   37:04.880 --> 37:10.240 material out there on ways of engaging men and  boys particularly in household nutrition there   37:10.240 --> 37:16.320 are other uh programs and particularly thinking  about reproductive health that have looked at   37:16.320 --> 37:21.760 ways to engage men and boys more actively in  that particular arena and um I think we're going   37:21.760 --> 37:27.360 to start actually trying to adopt some of the  practices that have been used that are effective   37:27.360 --> 37:34.880 in particularly reproductive health but um the  idea of getting men to um you know to to step   37:34.880 --> 37:40.800 up and to actually be viewed as something that is  valuable as opposed to being viewed by their peers   37:40.800 --> 37:47.920 as somebody who is is weak is really um is really  important and again looking at ways to do this   37:47.920 --> 37:54.080 that will encourage them and that will allow them  to um feel supported by their peers as opposed   37:54.080 --> 37:58.800 to being ridiculed is something that we're we're  definitely looking at because that's going to be   37:58.800 --> 38:04.000 an issue that we're going to face across all the  countries that we work in but again if you want to   38:04.000 --> 38:09.040 um again if I haven't uh yet mentioned please  take a look at our links on the livestock systems   38:09.040 --> 38:14.720 innovation lab because we will be posting all the  materials from this project since we basically   38:14.720 --> 38:18.480 got an extension until the end of last month and  so they're writing up all the reports this month. 38:21.120 --> 38:26.400 Okay I'm going to read Lumbini's note there  because I think uh well I'd love to ask you   38:26.400 --> 38:32.320 a lot of more things about gendered space. My  favorite thing and the ICT, I want to read here   38:32.320 --> 38:37.120 what Lumbini wrote so you can use the raise your  hand feature to ask any question directly. We can   38:37.120 --> 38:45.840 help unmute you so we can I think go on to more  conversation if anybody would like to speak so 38:51.760 --> 38:56.640 Lumbini do you do you can you say where the  raise your hand I'm looking for it myself.   38:56.640 --> 39:02.320 Is it under reactions? Yes it's under  reactions yeah yeah so here I'm gonna   39:02.320 --> 39:07.840 I'm gonna show you. There! I am raising my hand  but um and I even changed the color of my hand   39:07.840 --> 39:13.200 yesterday I was playing with this feature, I didn't  like that the yellow hand. So interesting you can   39:13.200 --> 39:18.800 change they have several skin tones but um so  I'll let I'll let uh anybody else want to speak up 39:26.720 --> 39:30.400 anybody else contribute any projects that  they're on that they'd like to talk about   39:31.040 --> 39:37.200 related to this. Okay Daniel, go ahead you have  the mic. Yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna be selfish and   39:37.200 --> 39:42.080 and and ask my time. kathy I really I really appreciated that because this focus I think   39:42.080 --> 39:45.680 come you mentioned the other conference recently  the cultivating equality which brought together   39:45.680 --> 39:52.000 researchers from across the CG centers from from  in in the us and elsewhere this this theme of   39:52.000 --> 39:58.640 moving I think still from theory to practice  and engaging men so I think it's it's really   39:58.640 --> 40:04.800 great to see these these target approaches  are being utilized um I guess is there any   40:05.760 --> 40:11.920 elaborate any more kind of negative um feedback  that has come through from from men engaging with   40:11.920 --> 40:16.640 this project or any kind of unintended that  you've that that the Girinka team has had to   40:16.640 --> 40:21.680 address and kind of develop messages or developing  that the outreach training for the model farmers   40:22.320 --> 40:27.520 that was addressed. Now that's an excellent  question Daniel, at this point. I am not aware   40:27.520 --> 40:33.680 of any but I also haven't been in country  in Rwanda in a while um and I don't know   40:34.320 --> 40:39.440 exactly if Emily's been in country or not but I  have not heard anything along those lines. I mean   40:39.440 --> 40:45.760 I've heard it from other projects in the past  when we try to intervene in household nutrition   40:45.760 --> 40:49.200 and I should put in a plug right now you  guys for one other project that I was on   40:49.920 --> 40:53.680 that was did a lot of work associated  with integrating gender and nutrition into   40:53.680 --> 40:58.400 agricultural systems it's called the ingenious  project integrating gender and nutrition into   40:58.400 --> 41:05.600 agricultural extension systems and i-n-g-e-n-a-e-s  and i can send out the link to that as well   41:05.600 --> 41:12.400 but we created a number of different uh exercises  interactive participatory work associated with not   41:12.400 --> 41:17.920 only integrating men more actively into household  nutrition but also looking at ways that we can   41:19.040 --> 41:23.760 kind of assess the power dynamics that are going  on within a household when it comes to nutrition   41:23.760 --> 41:29.840 and that's a whole other discussion um but uh  and so that's that's that's another seminar but   41:30.400 --> 41:36.720 definitely there um there can be blowback Daniel  that's a that's a really good question it's really   41:36.720 --> 41:41.840 important to understand the local context and  even the household context to make sure that   41:41.840 --> 41:46.560 you don't create those kinds of situations.  I always say to people when I train them   41:46.560 --> 41:50.960 the first thing is do no harm  because that is always possible. 41:56.480 --> 42:01.840 See if we have any others 42:02.960 --> 42:08.240 Otherwise I may be selfish again Kathy. Can I ask  you've kind of highlighted a lot of the great data   42:08.240 --> 42:13.360 coming out of this project. Could you elaborate  kind of in decision making kind of what good   42:13.360 --> 42:18.320 questions other methods that you use like like  qualitative or quantitative approaches that that   42:18.320 --> 42:24.480 the research that you utilize during this this  research now decision making in any household   42:24.480 --> 42:30.880 is complicated it doesn't matter which country in  the world you're in and particularly when it comes   42:30.880 --> 42:37.040 to nutrition um particularly when it comes to  animal source food products because animal source   42:37.040 --> 42:45.440 food products are the most prized piece of  consumption in a household be it meat, eggs, milk   42:45.440 --> 42:52.000 whatever um and usually those those food items are  reserved for the males and usually the oldest male   42:52.560 --> 42:58.240 and then it goes down the food chain down until  you usually get the the wife or the youngest   42:58.240 --> 43:03.440 daughter at the end of the food chain who receives  the least amount of food and the least quality of   43:03.440 --> 43:09.200 food and again in in the ingenious project we  have a number of different exercises that look   43:09.200 --> 43:14.400 at this issue because we are very interested in  helping men to understand. Number one, who needs   43:15.040 --> 43:21.440 the high quality food and particularly associated  with protein and number two what can they do   43:22.240 --> 43:27.600 to change the dynamics within the household  to provide the high quality protein and   43:27.600 --> 43:32.720 animal source foods to usually associated with  pregnant lactating women and young children   43:33.440 --> 43:37.840 um so I guess again I'll put in the plug  and I'll make sure that I send a link   43:37.840 --> 43:42.640 for that project and all the materials we  created so that people can have access to that   43:42.640 --> 43:50.160 but it's a big complicated issue around decision  making to decide particularly in a household   43:50.160 --> 43:57.600 who gets the food and sometimes to be honest with  you it's the woman who has more of the gender bias   43:57.600 --> 44:03.600 than the man does because she believes that it's  her role to feed the family and that it's her role   44:03.600 --> 44:08.640 to make sure that the men folk who are out there  doing the heavy labor get the majority of high   44:08.640 --> 44:16.080 quality food even if that's not the case. So we  also sometimes have to do a lot of gendered work   44:16.080 --> 44:22.320 with the women not just the men when it comes to  nutrition and household distribution of foodstuffs. 44:33.120 --> 44:39.360 Okay so I'm a geographer and I love  gendered space and in all the projects um   44:40.240 --> 44:42.800 that I've been involved with I'm  always you know paying attention to   44:44.000 --> 44:50.800 you know how to use how to use gendered space  and uh so so usually the problem has been in   44:50.800 --> 44:54.640 agriculture projects that I've worked in the  problem has been that there are fewer women   44:54.640 --> 45:03.840 involved than men this maternal nutrition project  and food is like more in women's area but um 45:04.720 --> 45:10.480 I don't know that there's gender gender neutral  spaces um I don't I don't think that that's I   45:10.480 --> 45:17.040 wouldn't think that that's the strategy to pursue  although I guess the only place that I have seen   45:17.040 --> 45:21.760 what I could consider gender neutral spaces is  working with the Mennonite central committee   45:21.760 --> 45:29.120 in Bangladesh with their yard meetings approach  with our IPM innovation lab where they had yard   45:29.120 --> 45:33.920 meetings you know because they had a family  approach. That's they they want men and women   45:33.920 --> 45:39.040 and children involved and so that was kind  of a semi-public space where women who would   45:39.040 --> 45:44.560 normally not really have a lot of ability  to to move in the public that yard and the   45:44.560 --> 45:50.880 neighbors within their neighborhood within their  community um that was kind of considered more of   45:50.880 --> 45:56.480 a gender-neutral space that's the only one I can  think of yeah I'm thinking with the peanut work   45:56.480 --> 46:01.680 when I was PI for a peanut crisp before it was   you know the collaborative research sport programs   46:01.680 --> 46:07.360 we created these booklets that were actually  peanut uh recipes and so it was targeting women   46:07.360 --> 46:11.200 to get women involved but then when they had  these little published books the peanut stories   46:11.200 --> 46:18.000 from Kamuli uh I went back and asked people  where they had shared the information they   46:18.000 --> 46:22.160 they all carried their book around and the men  and women shared in very different spaces and   46:22.160 --> 46:30.080 one of the things was bars in fact men sharing in  bars men were preachers and so they were sharing   46:30.080 --> 46:34.480 to men and women that like you say churches were  actually a mixed space but it was the men that   46:34.480 --> 46:40.080 were sharing in those. um I was working with NAWO,  the national association of women's organizations   46:40.080 --> 46:45.920 in Uganda so the women leaders met with women  only in in NAWO meetings throughout the country 46:48.000 --> 46:48.500 um 46:50.720 --> 46:56.160 And then in the Philippines we had a project where  I saw that the invitations to participate in our   46:56.160 --> 47:01.840 SANREM project were being delivered through  a very gendered, very masculine space of the   47:01.840 --> 47:06.960 town hall basically of the the government center  where it was men that were getting the information   47:06.960 --> 47:13.040 because they were the ones getting there where  a space that I found that was interestingly used   47:13.040 --> 47:19.440 by men and women and was a perfect place to put  a poster was the basketball courts because the   47:19.440 --> 47:25.680 women used it to dry the grains and to collect  the grain so they would frequent that space   47:25.680 --> 47:31.360 but the men used it to play basketball and so  that was a community space that was alternatively   47:31.360 --> 47:39.040 women's base and then a men's space. um so that's  interesting yeah um your wonderful presentation   47:39.760 --> 47:45.200 um I already said we're sharing a short survey  so it also helps us bring funding to uh be able   47:45.200 --> 47:50.880 to whether we bring speakers to campus or we  which hopefully in the future we will so um   47:51.600 --> 47:55.360 and then I want to let you know that our next  event is in approximately a month on November   47:55.360 --> 47:59.920 18th and that will be Dr. Mary Rodriguez  from the Ohio State University. You can find   47:59.920 --> 48:07.280 information on her on the website that was posted  earlier and have a wonderful day and we hope   48:07.280 --> 48:20.000 that you can join us for future events. So thank  you again everybody thanks very much everyone. 48:20.000 --> 48:23.680 It goes everyone excellent okay