WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.439 --> 00:00:06.320 A:middle L:90% Well thank you for participating in history makers. Would 2 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:09.029 A:middle L:90% you like to introduce yourself? Um I'm Sharon 3 00:00:09.029 --> 00:00:12.779 A:middle L:90% Smaldino and I hold an endowed chair position. I 4 00:00:12.789 --> 00:00:14.460 A:middle L:90% held the L. D. And Ruth G. 5 00:00:14.470 --> 00:00:17.510 A:middle L:90% Mortgage endowed chair for teacher education which is a little 6 00:00:17.510 --> 00:00:21.789 A:middle L:90% different than most I. T. And I'm at 7 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:24.390 A:middle L:90% northern Illinois in the College of Education. How many 8 00:00:24.390 --> 00:00:26.289 A:middle L:90% years have you been there? This is my 10th 9 00:00:26.289 --> 00:00:28.460 A:middle L:90% year time flies when you're having too much? Wasn't 10 00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:31.910 A:middle L:90% what universities were you working with before? Prior to 11 00:00:31.910 --> 00:00:34.740 A:middle L:90% that? Uh For I spent a long time at 12 00:00:34.750 --> 00:00:37.929 A:middle L:90% Northern Iowa, you never see northern Iowa. And 13 00:00:37.929 --> 00:00:40.159 A:middle L:90% so it was kind of an interesting transition because I 14 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:43.960 A:middle L:90% went from you and I and I went from being 15 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:48.560 A:middle L:90% yes molino at 12 small dino s at the other 16 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.710 A:middle L:90% and it just got really crazy crazy in my emails 17 00:00:51.710 --> 00:00:54.299 A:middle L:90% and trying to remember where I was. So everything 18 00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:59.090 A:middle L:90% is northern whatever and I go from here. What 19 00:00:59.090 --> 00:01:02.469 A:middle L:90% is your primary focus of your work? I have 20 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:03.870 A:middle L:90% , Well I have two venues that I'm really interested 21 00:01:03.879 --> 00:01:07.859 A:middle L:90% but my primary responsibility right now tends to be in 22 00:01:07.859 --> 00:01:11.810 A:middle L:90% teacher education and looking at what we're doing in terms 23 00:01:11.819 --> 00:01:17.310 A:middle L:90% of preparation of educators in terms of looking at how 24 00:01:17.310 --> 00:01:22.280 A:middle L:90% we're integrating or bringing technology into the schools in ways 25 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:26.930 A:middle L:90% in which we're changing education. Hopefully changing the way 26 00:01:26.930 --> 00:01:29.790 A:middle L:90% in which teachers are interacting with the technology, but 27 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:33.590 A:middle L:90% interacting with the Children and the learning and trying to 28 00:01:33.590 --> 00:01:36.549 A:middle L:90% see how the technology can be used in unique and 29 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:41.859 A:middle L:90% and really basically innovative ways. Is that your primary 30 00:01:41.870 --> 00:01:44.459 A:middle L:90% area of research focus as well? That and my 31 00:01:44.459 --> 00:01:48.549 A:middle L:90% other area is looking at online learning or distance education 32 00:01:48.549 --> 00:01:49.719 A:middle L:90% . I'm really looking at how it is. We 33 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:55.500 A:middle L:90% go about structuring the learning environment and I'm really right 34 00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:57.930 A:middle L:90% now focusing in on some of those decision processes that 35 00:01:57.930 --> 00:02:02.349 A:middle L:90% we go through as instructor designers and what are some 36 00:02:02.349 --> 00:02:06.540 A:middle L:90% of the things that we're choosing to do as we 37 00:02:06.540 --> 00:02:09.009 A:middle L:90% design and because we can do a variety of different 38 00:02:09.009 --> 00:02:12.530 A:middle L:90% kinds of things. How are we making these decisions 39 00:02:12.530 --> 00:02:17.729 A:middle L:90% to make these design decisions to implement online? How 40 00:02:17.729 --> 00:02:21.110 A:middle L:90% did you get interested in the field? It's a 41 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:22.900 A:middle L:90% long story, but I've been around for a long 42 00:02:22.900 --> 00:02:25.930 A:middle L:90% time and we walked in here. I actually uh 43 00:02:25.939 --> 00:02:30.139 A:middle L:90% have always been interested in how Children interface with the 44 00:02:30.139 --> 00:02:32.750 A:middle L:90% materials and for a long time. I, well 45 00:02:32.750 --> 00:02:36.900 A:middle L:90% I started off in a totally different field, but 46 00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:39.509 A:middle L:90% when I was working with a group of deaf Children 47 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:43.389 A:middle L:90% actually, they were arranging, they were probably adolescence 48 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:50.590 A:middle L:90% and they had difficulty using regular classroom materials, the 49 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:54.120 A:middle L:90% whole structure of their language system and what they understood 50 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:57.539 A:middle L:90% and how they could read, how they could write 51 00:02:57.550 --> 00:03:00.819 A:middle L:90% , how they could communicate was not the same as 52 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:05.319 A:middle L:90% the traditional child interfacing with these same materials. And 53 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:07.370 A:middle L:90% so I felt like there was a real disconnect not 54 00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:10.550 A:middle L:90% from the perspective that these kids weren't capable of doing 55 00:03:10.550 --> 00:03:14.180 A:middle L:90% this, they were very smart Children. The problem 56 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:15.949 A:middle L:90% was is that the materials weren't right for them. 57 00:03:16.539 --> 00:03:21.580 A:middle L:90% And so my interest became one of how do you 58 00:03:21.590 --> 00:03:27.009 A:middle L:90% redesign materials to really need the individual learning needs of 59 00:03:27.020 --> 00:03:30.460 A:middle L:90% these kids? So I started off in special end 60 00:03:30.939 --> 00:03:31.460 A:middle L:90% , I was in special and I mean I had 61 00:03:31.460 --> 00:03:34.860 A:middle L:90% a background in special, if I started off kind 62 00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:38.979 A:middle L:90% of teaching or taking courses and teaching in the context 63 00:03:38.979 --> 00:03:40.569 A:middle L:90% of special ed. And so I was working my 64 00:03:40.569 --> 00:03:46.060 A:middle L:90% way through coursework and I reached that moment in your 65 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:49.680 A:middle L:90% scheduled courses. I was a student at large. 66 00:03:49.689 --> 00:03:51.479 A:middle L:90% You reach that point where it's like, okay, 67 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:53.770 A:middle L:90% you have to become a matriculating student, you have 68 00:03:53.770 --> 00:03:54.860 A:middle L:90% to get in a program, And it was like 69 00:03:55.539 --> 00:03:58.949 A:middle L:90% , do why I just want to keep taking horses 70 00:03:58.949 --> 00:04:00.729 A:middle L:90% . But the university had this policy that you couldn't 71 00:04:00.729 --> 00:04:03.560 A:middle L:90% just accumulate a Brazilian hours, you actually had to 72 00:04:03.569 --> 00:04:06.360 A:middle L:90% get to be a matriculating student in a program. 73 00:04:06.939 --> 00:04:12.129 A:middle L:90% And I was looking through the catalog, kinda everybody 74 00:04:12.129 --> 00:04:13.460 A:middle L:90% thought I was going to go into special ed. 75 00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:14.389 A:middle L:90% And I went, no, you know, I 76 00:04:14.389 --> 00:04:15.639 A:middle L:90% think I'm gonna go up and talk to those media 77 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:17.759 A:middle L:90% people. And they were like, why? And 78 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:19.420 A:middle L:90% I said, because I think that's really where I'm 79 00:04:19.420 --> 00:04:24.639 A:middle L:90% interested. And just about that same time, the 80 00:04:24.649 --> 00:04:29.569 A:middle L:90% desktop computer came out on that just about that time 81 00:04:29.579 --> 00:04:32.470 A:middle L:90% , you know, they had the uh, or 82 00:04:32.470 --> 00:04:35.730 A:middle L:90% not the laptops, desktop computers where you actually had 83 00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:39.139 A:middle L:90% floppy disks that were eight inches in, in what 84 00:04:39.139 --> 00:04:41.110 A:middle L:90% not, But they came out and it was like 85 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:44.620 A:middle L:90% , okay, that looks to me like the perfect 86 00:04:44.629 --> 00:04:46.920 A:middle L:90% tool. And I was looking at this thing, 87 00:04:46.930 --> 00:04:50.490 A:middle L:90% thinking we really need to know how to use this 88 00:04:50.500 --> 00:04:53.220 A:middle L:90% , and we need to know how to use this 89 00:04:53.220 --> 00:04:57.430 A:middle L:90% in creative and innovative ways to help my students who 90 00:04:57.430 --> 00:05:00.100 A:middle L:90% are these decades, because I thought it was the 91 00:05:00.110 --> 00:05:02.930 A:middle L:90% perfect instructional tool, I thought you could make it 92 00:05:02.939 --> 00:05:06.740 A:middle L:90% do things and at that point in time, the 93 00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:11.050 A:middle L:90% only way I could do that was to take programming 94 00:05:11.050 --> 00:05:14.819 A:middle L:90% languages. And so I learned to program in basic 95 00:05:14.819 --> 00:05:17.490 A:middle L:90% and super basic and pascal, and I learned a 96 00:05:17.490 --> 00:05:20.350 A:middle L:90% little assembly, but that wasn't what I wanted. 97 00:05:20.740 --> 00:05:24.740 A:middle L:90% I wanted to be able to adapt the materials that 98 00:05:24.740 --> 00:05:27.560 A:middle L:90% adapt the programs to meet the needs of my students 99 00:05:28.339 --> 00:05:30.610 A:middle L:90% . And so I started really digging around deeper and 100 00:05:30.610 --> 00:05:33.370 A:middle L:90% deeper and deeper into this. And that's why I 101 00:05:33.370 --> 00:05:36.720 A:middle L:90% ended up in the field of it. I mean 102 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:40.439 A:middle L:90% , it just literally was because I wanted to meet 103 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:43.120 A:middle L:90% the needs of these students. Now, I haven't 104 00:05:43.129 --> 00:05:46.160 A:middle L:90% worked with those students ever since. So I have 105 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.689 A:middle L:90% no idea in the bigger picture whether or not this 106 00:05:48.689 --> 00:05:53.639 A:middle L:90% really did become an innovative tool for them. But 107 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:55.819 A:middle L:90% I saw it in the context of an innovative tool 108 00:05:55.829 --> 00:05:58.259 A:middle L:90% for all students to learn. And so it didn't 109 00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:00.079 A:middle L:90% matter whether they were hearing impaired or whether they were 110 00:06:00.089 --> 00:06:04.980 A:middle L:90% language um learners or whether they were in fact brilliant 111 00:06:04.980 --> 00:06:09.860 A:middle L:90% kids. This struck me as being the one thing 112 00:06:09.870 --> 00:06:12.470 A:middle L:90% that you could use across all venues, whether they 113 00:06:12.470 --> 00:06:15.490 A:middle L:90% have special needs or whether they are creative and innovative 114 00:06:15.610 --> 00:06:19.259 A:middle L:90% and gifted. Somewhere in that continuum of kids. 115 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:23.589 A:middle L:90% This was the thing you could use, you mentioned 116 00:06:23.589 --> 00:06:27.170 A:middle L:90% distance education, where did you get your interest in 117 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:29.279 A:middle L:90% distance education? When did that happen? How did 118 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:30.759 A:middle L:90% that come about? That was a funny one too 119 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:38.569 A:middle L:90% . I actually started off working with Michael Apple two 120 00:06:38.569 --> 00:06:41.720 A:middle L:90% E and my husband and I decided that it might 121 00:06:41.730 --> 00:06:44.569 A:middle L:90% be kind of fun and funky if we could communicate 122 00:06:44.569 --> 00:06:46.930 A:middle L:90% with family because we were living quite a distance away 123 00:06:46.930 --> 00:06:48.620 A:middle L:90% from her as the family. So we bought a 124 00:06:48.629 --> 00:06:54.560 A:middle L:90% motive A 300 broad rape modem which today would be 125 00:06:54.569 --> 00:07:00.370 A:middle L:90% deemed to be so. And we bought this. 126 00:07:00.379 --> 00:07:01.550 A:middle L:90% Nobody else in the family had ones. So we 127 00:07:01.550 --> 00:07:04.610 A:middle L:90% had to kind of teach everybody how to do this 128 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:06.959 A:middle L:90% . And I took the motive into the office one 129 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:09.660 A:middle L:90% day and I said to the secretary I want to 130 00:07:09.670 --> 00:07:13.990 A:middle L:90% do some some email stuff. So the only line 131 00:07:13.990 --> 00:07:15.240 A:middle L:90% I could plug into, the only phone line I 132 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:18.240 A:middle L:90% could plug into was her phone line because it was 133 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:23.459 A:middle L:90% the only one that was a type of wine phone 134 00:07:23.459 --> 00:07:26.259 A:middle L:90% line that I could actually connect my computer too. 135 00:07:26.740 --> 00:07:30.459 A:middle L:90% So it was rather amusing because of course we didn't 136 00:07:30.459 --> 00:07:32.459 A:middle L:90% have computers in our offices. We didn't have wifi 137 00:07:32.459 --> 00:07:33.990 A:middle L:90% , we didn't have any of that at that point 138 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:40.089 A:middle L:90% I'm really than and so I would say now lois 139 00:07:40.089 --> 00:07:42.050 A:middle L:90% whatever you wanna do, you just go and work 140 00:07:42.050 --> 00:07:44.779 A:middle L:90% and do your own thing because guess what? I'm 141 00:07:44.779 --> 00:07:46.860 A:middle L:90% going to be using this for the next hour. 142 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:48.370 A:middle L:90% And I actually started off doing the whole thing in 143 00:07:48.379 --> 00:07:54.350 A:middle L:90% email and the first online course I ever taught was 144 00:07:54.350 --> 00:07:59.079 A:middle L:90% it was totally done by email. Yes. The 145 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.949 A:middle L:90% whole thing we did that all the students communicated with 146 00:08:01.949 --> 00:08:05.439 A:middle L:90% each other. I would send out my prompts for 147 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:09.139 A:middle L:90% discussion and then we would have all these reply alls 148 00:08:09.139 --> 00:08:11.740 A:middle L:90% and we would have all these discussions and the students 149 00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:15.040 A:middle L:90% hated it. Not because they didn't like the course 150 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:16.449 A:middle L:90% and they didn't like the opportunity and the experience. 151 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:20.100 A:middle L:90% What they hated Was the fact that they would log 152 00:08:20.100 --> 00:08:24.160 A:middle L:90% into their emails and have 60, 70, 80 153 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.680 A:middle L:90% new email messages because there was all this interactivity and 154 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.660 A:middle L:90% communication amongst and between. So it was kind of 155 00:08:31.660 --> 00:08:33.980 A:middle L:90% an interesting adventure. So I really wanted to get 156 00:08:33.980 --> 00:08:37.440 A:middle L:90% into more of how do you design courses to accommodate 157 00:08:37.450 --> 00:08:41.899 A:middle L:90% the needs of students from variety of locations and how 158 00:08:41.899 --> 00:08:43.830 A:middle L:90% do you design courses in the context of the tools 159 00:08:43.830 --> 00:08:46.759 A:middle L:90% and resources map? It was a lot of fun 160 00:08:48.740 --> 00:08:50.870 A:middle L:90% , particularly because we didn't have course management tools. 161 00:08:50.870 --> 00:08:54.460 A:middle L:90% We didn't have those kinds of free flowing types of 162 00:08:54.470 --> 00:08:58.620 A:middle L:90% things. Uh the internet was, I have been 163 00:08:58.620 --> 00:09:01.159 A:middle L:90% teaching for several years before we actually got an internet 164 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:05.070 A:middle L:90% and the web was even further down the road from 165 00:09:05.070 --> 00:09:07.259 A:middle L:90% that, the whole idea of having a web based 166 00:09:07.730 --> 00:09:11.110 A:middle L:90% interface was just a whole brand new thing. Yeah 167 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:15.679 A:middle L:90% , I am not against. It's a fascinating story 168 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.159 A:middle L:90% . Can I ask another question about that? What 169 00:09:18.169 --> 00:09:20.830 A:middle L:90% what is something that worked well about that approach or 170 00:09:20.830 --> 00:09:24.490 A:middle L:90% was there something that worked well that you would that 171 00:09:24.500 --> 00:09:28.179 A:middle L:90% some technique is still used today? I think what 172 00:09:28.179 --> 00:09:30.950 A:middle L:90% worked well was I had to learn the economy of 173 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.379 A:middle L:90% questions. I had to learn the economy of prompts 174 00:09:33.389 --> 00:09:37.200 A:middle L:90% . So that because otherwise if I, you know 175 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.720 A:middle L:90% when I first started doing it at the beginning of 176 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:41.610 A:middle L:90% the semester, I would put out a prompt and 177 00:09:41.610 --> 00:09:46.799 A:middle L:90% then that I would keep keep that discussion going by 178 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:48.549 A:middle L:90% continuing to add prompts to the whole thing. And 179 00:09:48.549 --> 00:09:52.110 A:middle L:90% I had to learn how to make it economical because 180 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.679 A:middle L:90% as I said, we were all logging on with 181 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.389 A:middle L:90% 50, 60, 70 new email messages daily. 182 00:09:58.389 --> 00:10:01.610 A:middle L:90% And it was just, it was crazy. So 183 00:10:01.610 --> 00:10:03.809 A:middle L:90% I had to learn how to post my prom or 184 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:07.259 A:middle L:90% submit my prom or prepared in such a way that 185 00:10:07.269 --> 00:10:11.370 A:middle L:90% it was economical for everyone to be able to then 186 00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:15.860 A:middle L:90% respond to it in a way that didn't lay out 187 00:10:15.870 --> 00:10:20.470 A:middle L:90% these horrendously huge number of emails. So, and 188 00:10:20.470 --> 00:10:22.940 A:middle L:90% that's something that I've tried to work with over the 189 00:10:22.950 --> 00:10:24.529 A:middle L:90% time. Learning how to pose questions or learning how 190 00:10:24.529 --> 00:10:28.549 A:middle L:90% to to direct prompts in ways that makes sense. 191 00:10:28.940 --> 00:10:33.210 A:middle L:90% And you're not putting a lot of time into people 192 00:10:33.220 --> 00:10:35.649 A:middle L:90% trying to figure out what it is you're trying to 193 00:10:35.649 --> 00:10:39.679 A:middle L:90% ask or coming up with minuscule answers that then you 194 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.009 A:middle L:90% have to re probe or you have to redirect so 195 00:10:43.009 --> 00:10:43.879 A:middle L:90% they come into deeper. So how do you put 196 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:48.870 A:middle L:90% the prompt together to immediately engage them in the deep 197 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.850 A:middle L:90% thought questions that you want them to be engaged in 198 00:10:52.860 --> 00:10:54.159 A:middle L:90% ? So, it was an interesting step forward for 199 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:56.259 A:middle L:90% me to learn how to ask questions. Well, 200 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:00.700 A:middle L:90% well, it's a wonderful story. Thank you for 201 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:05.330 A:middle L:90% sharing. Could you describe your career path? Well 202 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:05.740 A:middle L:90% , I think I sort of did, but I 203 00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:09.789 A:middle L:90% started off, I never, ever, ever, 204 00:11:09.789 --> 00:11:11.679 A:middle L:90% ever, ever, ever, ever wanted to be 205 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:13.750 A:middle L:90% a teacher, never wanted to do that. In 206 00:11:13.750 --> 00:11:20.250 A:middle L:90% fact I wanted to be an architect. But um 207 00:11:20.940 --> 00:11:22.820 A:middle L:90% at the time, uh well, there are two 208 00:11:22.830 --> 00:11:26.750 A:middle L:90% variables that fell into place at the time. Architecture 209 00:11:26.750 --> 00:11:30.259 A:middle L:90% was not considered to be a woman's career path. 210 00:11:30.740 --> 00:11:33.730 A:middle L:90% I am really pretty old. Um the, what 211 00:11:33.730 --> 00:11:39.019 A:middle L:90% happened was that pretty much most women went into nursing 212 00:11:39.019 --> 00:11:43.600 A:middle L:90% or teaching and my mother who was a person who 213 00:11:43.710 --> 00:11:46.250 A:middle L:90% would have loved to have gone to college but didn't 214 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:50.850 A:middle L:90% would that all wanted all of her daughters to go 215 00:11:50.850 --> 00:11:54.830 A:middle L:90% to college, but they didn't. So I was 216 00:11:54.830 --> 00:11:58.850 A:middle L:90% this child and I was obligated to go to college 217 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:01.309 A:middle L:90% and I had a choice of one of two careers 218 00:12:01.309 --> 00:12:03.500 A:middle L:90% because those are the two careers my mother wanted, 219 00:12:03.509 --> 00:12:05.850 A:middle L:90% one was nursing And the other one was teaching. 220 00:12:05.529 --> 00:12:09.179 A:middle L:90% Now nursing totally turned me off. I mean it 221 00:12:09.179 --> 00:12:11.019 A:middle L:90% was the whole thought of doing some of those things 222 00:12:11.019 --> 00:12:13.759 A:middle L:90% that nurses have to do is just not on my 223 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:16.590 A:middle L:90% list of things to do. So I chose to 224 00:12:16.590 --> 00:12:18.299 A:middle L:90% go into education, but I didn't want to be 225 00:12:18.299 --> 00:12:20.370 A:middle L:90% a classroom teacher, so I chose to go into 226 00:12:20.370 --> 00:12:24.580 A:middle L:90% speech pathology, I'd still be in the schools, 227 00:12:24.590 --> 00:12:28.860 A:middle L:90% I'd still be working with Children, but I wouldn't 228 00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:31.240 A:middle L:90% be doing it on a daily basis of the same 229 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:33.029 A:middle L:90% normal grind. In my mind, it was the 230 00:12:33.029 --> 00:12:35.620 A:middle L:90% same normal grind. And here I am now in 231 00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:39.399 A:middle L:90% teacher education, working with pre service teachers going, 232 00:12:39.409 --> 00:12:41.980 A:middle L:90% I can't believe I'm doing this because I never wanted 233 00:12:41.990 --> 00:12:45.100 A:middle L:90% to be there to start with, but I got 234 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:48.840 A:middle L:90% into it and what I found was a world of 235 00:12:48.850 --> 00:12:52.210 A:middle L:90% working with Children who had hearing loss is and I 236 00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:56.730 A:middle L:90% began to really look at learning from the perspective of 237 00:12:56.740 --> 00:13:01.470 A:middle L:90% how do we overcome this, this disability, this 238 00:13:01.470 --> 00:13:05.049 A:middle L:90% problem, How do we still engage these Children in 239 00:13:05.049 --> 00:13:07.970 A:middle L:90% learning? Because they're not stupid, they just don't 240 00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:13.070 A:middle L:90% have this normal audio vehicle of the learning process. 241 00:13:13.070 --> 00:13:15.389 A:middle L:90% So how do I work forward into this? So 242 00:13:15.389 --> 00:13:18.129 A:middle L:90% I actually started getting into teaching, which was not 243 00:13:18.129 --> 00:13:20.679 A:middle L:90% where I was going to go in my initial phase 244 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:22.200 A:middle L:90% of this. Okay, so I was in teaching 245 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.769 A:middle L:90% and I was doing all of that stuff in the 246 00:13:24.769 --> 00:13:26.659 A:middle L:90% last place in the world I ever wanted to do 247 00:13:26.659 --> 00:13:28.779 A:middle L:90% was go back to school after I got my bachelor's 248 00:13:28.779 --> 00:13:31.240 A:middle L:90% degree and somehow I ended up in the Master's program 249 00:13:31.250 --> 00:13:33.549 A:middle L:90% in elementary education, which was not where I wanted 250 00:13:33.549 --> 00:13:35.759 A:middle L:90% to go, uh except that it was the logical 251 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.720 A:middle L:90% next step. So I did that I taught school 252 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.789 A:middle L:90% , I, we moved a lot as part of 253 00:13:43.789 --> 00:13:46.779 A:middle L:90% my husband's early career. And so I just kept 254 00:13:46.779 --> 00:13:50.289 A:middle L:90% moving around and getting new jobs and sort of reinventing 255 00:13:50.289 --> 00:13:52.850 A:middle L:90% myself in the field. And because I had this 256 00:13:52.850 --> 00:13:56.519 A:middle L:90% speech path background where I was an itinerant going from 257 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:58.169 A:middle L:90% building to building the building, and I had this 258 00:13:58.179 --> 00:14:03.250 A:middle L:90% elementary degree where I taught Children, I managed to 259 00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:07.289 A:middle L:90% sort of evolve it into becoming the itinerant deaf teacher 260 00:14:07.299 --> 00:14:09.309 A:middle L:90% who would go from building to building the building to 261 00:14:09.309 --> 00:14:11.840 A:middle L:90% work with kids individually or in small groups on their 262 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:15.029 A:middle L:90% learning tasks and doing those kinds of things. So 263 00:14:15.029 --> 00:14:18.210 A:middle L:90% I went from there to ending up in a situation 264 00:14:18.210 --> 00:14:22.419 A:middle L:90% where I was working in a school for socially and 265 00:14:22.419 --> 00:14:24.659 A:middle L:90% emotionally disturbed youth. It was a residential school. 266 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.919 A:middle L:90% So these are the kids who are the rejects of 267 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:30.149 A:middle L:90% public schools. And they were truly wonderful kids. 268 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.100 A:middle L:90% Even bigger challenges than my regular special population. They 269 00:14:33.100 --> 00:14:37.080 A:middle L:90% were now even huge challenges because in addition to having 270 00:14:37.090 --> 00:14:39.460 A:middle L:90% a hearing laws, they also had some social emotional 271 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:46.259 A:middle L:90% lack of performance. So I ended up going back 272 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:48.190 A:middle L:90% to school to take courses and to learn about this 273 00:14:48.190 --> 00:14:50.409 A:middle L:90% stuff and also to kind of learn about this technology 274 00:14:50.409 --> 00:14:54.809 A:middle L:90% stuff. And then I got talked into going to 275 00:14:54.809 --> 00:14:56.909 A:middle L:90% adopt program. The rest is kind of history. 276 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:01.240 A:middle L:90% From that point on, I ended up in working 277 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:07.679 A:middle L:90% in a program and that we have this service course 278 00:15:07.690 --> 00:15:11.399 A:middle L:90% for teachers and pre service teachers. And I started 279 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.450 A:middle L:90% teaching this course and going, okay, this works 280 00:15:15.940 --> 00:15:20.309 A:middle L:90% . And I kept saying to my colleagues and I 281 00:15:20.309 --> 00:15:22.539 A:middle L:90% kept I kept going down to the Dean's office and 282 00:15:22.539 --> 00:15:26.919 A:middle L:90% saying, you know, this computer thing is really 283 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.440 A:middle L:90% a big deal and we don't have them and I 284 00:15:30.450 --> 00:15:35.860 A:middle L:90% can't teach these people to become good teachers without having 285 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.570 A:middle L:90% these things. And so I was able to convince 286 00:15:39.570 --> 00:15:41.129 A:middle L:90% them to redirect funds. And we bought computers for 287 00:15:41.129 --> 00:15:45.120 A:middle L:90% the for the college and we bought labs and we 288 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:46.289 A:middle L:90% had, you know what not. And his laptops 289 00:15:46.289 --> 00:15:48.460 A:middle L:90% came out, we, you know, I was 290 00:15:48.470 --> 00:15:50.620 A:middle L:90% back down in the office going, hi, it's 291 00:15:50.620 --> 00:15:54.700 A:middle L:90% me again, um, just being a little pest 292 00:15:54.710 --> 00:15:56.889 A:middle L:90% . So we kept trying to, you know, 293 00:15:56.889 --> 00:15:58.779 A:middle L:90% to explain that these are the, you know, 294 00:15:58.779 --> 00:16:00.090 A:middle L:90% in order for us to prepare good teachers, we 295 00:16:00.090 --> 00:16:03.529 A:middle L:90% have to be doing the right thing. And so 296 00:16:03.539 --> 00:16:07.730 A:middle L:90% , um where I am now, it's kind of 297 00:16:07.730 --> 00:16:10.559 A:middle L:90% an interesting situation. Was a few weeks ago, 298 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.809 A:middle L:90% I was invited to apply for this endowed chair position 299 00:16:15.809 --> 00:16:18.860 A:middle L:90% in Teacher Education with the idea that I come in 300 00:16:18.860 --> 00:16:22.620 A:middle L:90% with this background of understanding, trying to understand learning 301 00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:26.580 A:middle L:90% and how do you facilitate learning in their process? 302 00:16:26.659 --> 00:16:30.480 A:middle L:90% But also that I advocate for using the tools and 303 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.690 A:middle L:90% the resources that are appropriate to facilitate learning in any 304 00:16:33.690 --> 00:16:37.230 A:middle L:90% trial. And so it was a natural fit for 305 00:16:37.230 --> 00:16:41.210 A:middle L:90% me and I was able to move segway into a 306 00:16:41.210 --> 00:16:44.669 A:middle L:90% different level of position. So I have a lot 307 00:16:44.669 --> 00:16:45.759 A:middle L:90% of fun in my current position because I can do 308 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.980 A:middle L:90% what I want and how I want and I can 309 00:16:48.980 --> 00:16:51.759 A:middle L:90% work with kids in the schools and teacher education. 310 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:56.500 A:middle L:90% Um faculty, I can work with pre service candidates 311 00:16:56.500 --> 00:16:57.990 A:middle L:90% , I can work with classroom teachers and I can 312 00:16:57.990 --> 00:17:00.649 A:middle L:90% do lots of, there's definitely a lot of breath 313 00:17:00.649 --> 00:17:03.019 A:middle L:90% in the fields. Oh definitely. You hear that 314 00:17:03.019 --> 00:17:06.059 A:middle L:90% in your stores as well. Thank you for sharing 315 00:17:06.539 --> 00:17:07.089 A:middle L:90% . We've touched on this a little bit, but 316 00:17:07.089 --> 00:17:11.019 A:middle L:90% I'll circle back. How would you describe your research 317 00:17:11.029 --> 00:17:12.869 A:middle L:90% , your research interests when you first started your career 318 00:17:12.869 --> 00:17:17.269 A:middle L:90% and how they've changed? I first started, I 319 00:17:17.269 --> 00:17:19.000 A:middle L:90% think what I was trying to do initially was to 320 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:26.170 A:middle L:90% demonstrate that the computer tools because we were just we 321 00:17:26.170 --> 00:17:27.559 A:middle L:90% were really at the forefront of a lot of these 322 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:30.859 A:middle L:90% things that you all take for granted at this point 323 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.470 A:middle L:90% . But we were initially trying to get through this 324 00:17:33.470 --> 00:17:37.710 A:middle L:90% and trying to show that there were differences in the 325 00:17:37.710 --> 00:17:41.190 A:middle L:90% ways in which Children interface with this and interacted with 326 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.400 A:middle L:90% this. I started off with my special ed populations 327 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:45.289 A:middle L:90% because those are the ones in hand. You tend 328 00:17:45.289 --> 00:17:48.119 A:middle L:90% to go with a convenience sample. So it was 329 00:17:48.130 --> 00:17:49.190 A:middle L:90% like these were the kids were convenient so we'll work 330 00:17:49.190 --> 00:17:52.579 A:middle L:90% with them. But what I did was I also 331 00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:56.420 A:middle L:90% started trying to look at what we were doing in 332 00:17:56.529 --> 00:18:02.049 A:middle L:90% actual practice with preparation of educators, both in service 333 00:18:02.049 --> 00:18:03.670 A:middle L:90% educators and because they were in the same boat at 334 00:18:03.670 --> 00:18:06.880 A:middle L:90% the same time, they were also trying to learn 335 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:08.609 A:middle L:90% this stuff. I remember one of my workshops that 336 00:18:08.609 --> 00:18:11.789 A:middle L:90% I did, I came in, I schlepped all 337 00:18:11.789 --> 00:18:15.500 A:middle L:90% this stuff in the data projector, slept in the 338 00:18:15.509 --> 00:18:19.980 A:middle L:90% data projector and slept in the, the laudable and 339 00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:22.160 A:middle L:90% hooked it all up, got everything running and I 340 00:18:22.170 --> 00:18:25.710 A:middle L:90% put up my power point slide and hey, you 341 00:18:25.710 --> 00:18:27.930 A:middle L:90% know, welcome to all learned who they all were 342 00:18:27.930 --> 00:18:30.690 A:middle L:90% and you know, and then hit the next, 343 00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:33.220 A:middle L:90% hit the arrow button and the next slide came up 344 00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:34.490 A:middle L:90% and I started to talk about what we were going 345 00:18:34.490 --> 00:18:37.150 A:middle L:90% to be doing in this workshop and they wait, 346 00:18:37.150 --> 00:18:37.890 A:middle L:90% wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 347 00:18:37.890 --> 00:18:41.140 A:middle L:90% wait. And I said, what, what did 348 00:18:41.140 --> 00:18:45.049 A:middle L:90% you just do? They had never seen power point 349 00:18:45.059 --> 00:18:47.339 A:middle L:90% . They had no idea what I had in terms 350 00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:48.819 A:middle L:90% of all this stuff. And so I had to 351 00:18:48.819 --> 00:18:52.630 A:middle L:90% take about 10 minutes out of my workshop just to 352 00:18:52.630 --> 00:18:56.869 A:middle L:90% explain it wasn't the purpose of this workshop. I 353 00:18:56.869 --> 00:19:00.119 A:middle L:90% had to explain what it was and then they wanted 354 00:19:00.130 --> 00:19:03.859 A:middle L:90% more of that. So it was like, okay 355 00:19:03.869 --> 00:19:04.680 A:middle L:90% , so when I first started off, we were 356 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.849 A:middle L:90% teaching people the word process. We were teaching adults 357 00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:11.420 A:middle L:90% , teachers to word process, to use spreadsheets, 358 00:19:11.420 --> 00:19:15.509 A:middle L:90% to how to build databases. We're building power points 359 00:19:15.509 --> 00:19:17.559 A:middle L:90% and teaching them how to do this. This stuff 360 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:18.640 A:middle L:90% we teach kids to do now. But at the 361 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:22.589 A:middle L:90% time even the educators didn't have it. So it 362 00:19:22.589 --> 00:19:26.400 A:middle L:90% opened up a whole world of possibilities. And a 363 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.369 A:middle L:90% lot of my early work is done in how do 364 00:19:29.369 --> 00:19:32.920 A:middle L:90% you work with educators, both pre service and in 365 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.299 A:middle L:90% service educators to learn to use these things and now 366 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:41.089 A:middle L:90% we learn to use these things, but to change 367 00:19:41.089 --> 00:19:42.319 A:middle L:90% the learning environment at the same time, which is 368 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.019 A:middle L:90% really what I wanted to do. But it's hard 369 00:19:45.029 --> 00:19:49.349 A:middle L:90% because that's a major mental step to go from. 370 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.670 A:middle L:90% I can put together a power point and use it 371 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.539 A:middle L:90% to show my kids two. I'm going to have 372 00:19:56.549 --> 00:20:00.049 A:middle L:90% my kids use power point in this creatively different way 373 00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:03.970 A:middle L:90% and moving them from there over that. That's, 374 00:20:03.980 --> 00:20:07.490 A:middle L:90% that was a lot of my early work because, 375 00:20:07.490 --> 00:20:11.309 A:middle L:90% and it's the same with online learning when we started 376 00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:14.339 A:middle L:90% in distance at taking them from where they were to 377 00:20:14.349 --> 00:20:18.789 A:middle L:90% rethinking and re engaging them in a different type of 378 00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:23.170 A:middle L:90% thinking on how you engage your learners at this level 379 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:26.369 A:middle L:90% . When we first in Iowa was one of the 380 00:20:26.380 --> 00:20:30.150 A:middle L:90% first states who had a major um statewide fiber optic 381 00:20:30.809 --> 00:20:33.049 A:middle L:90% And they had 800. Now they have about 800 382 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:37.140 A:middle L:90% video classrooms. And when we first started, we 383 00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:42.109 A:middle L:90% were teaching the teachers how to use these major video 384 00:20:42.109 --> 00:20:45.390 A:middle L:90% classrooms and they were beautifully done. I mean they 385 00:20:45.390 --> 00:20:48.220 A:middle L:90% were really well organized multiple cameras, lot uh, 386 00:20:48.230 --> 00:20:52.740 A:middle L:90% computer interface control panel for it, lots of resources 387 00:20:52.740 --> 00:20:56.059 A:middle L:90% right at their fingertips and so on. Um, 388 00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.140 A:middle L:90% interestingly enough when we were training them to use this 389 00:21:00.140 --> 00:21:03.240 A:middle L:90% , I mean it takes you about Maybe 10 minutes 390 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.240 A:middle L:90% to train them how to use all the parts because 391 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.960 A:middle L:90% it's pretty, it's not only intuitive, but it 392 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.420 A:middle L:90% says, you know, teacher camera, student camera 393 00:21:11.420 --> 00:21:12.470 A:middle L:90% , overhead camera. Okay. You know, you 394 00:21:12.470 --> 00:21:15.029 A:middle L:90% can read, you can push the right button and 395 00:21:15.029 --> 00:21:15.630 A:middle L:90% there you are. So it takes you just a 396 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.410 A:middle L:90% few minutes to learn to use the appropriate different buttons 397 00:21:18.410 --> 00:21:22.059 A:middle L:90% on this screen. But what I, what we 398 00:21:22.059 --> 00:21:26.309 A:middle L:90% had to do was get them to understand that you 399 00:21:26.309 --> 00:21:30.230 A:middle L:90% couldn't just be the talking head. So how do 400 00:21:30.230 --> 00:21:33.009 A:middle L:90% you take good classroom practice that you engage in in 401 00:21:33.019 --> 00:21:37.710 A:middle L:90% face to face all the time? How do you 402 00:21:37.710 --> 00:21:41.099 A:middle L:90% take good classroom practice and translated into this tool into 403 00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:47.190 A:middle L:90% this resource that you're not comfortable with? So getting 404 00:21:47.190 --> 00:21:49.289 A:middle L:90% them to think about how do you create interactivity between 405 00:21:49.289 --> 00:21:52.630 A:middle L:90% multiple sites? How do you create interactivity in ways 406 00:21:52.630 --> 00:21:56.579 A:middle L:90% of getting the learners to be in multiple sites or 407 00:21:56.579 --> 00:22:00.960 A:middle L:90% different sites and still work collectively together as groups. 408 00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:04.049 A:middle L:90% And a lot of our early work that I did 409 00:22:04.059 --> 00:22:07.930 A:middle L:90% we I worked very closely with a gal who's still 410 00:22:07.930 --> 00:22:11.119 A:middle L:90% in Northern Iowa, we actually spent a lot of 411 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:17.220 A:middle L:90% time doing workshops and writing about creating interactivity and creating 412 00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:19.880 A:middle L:90% that kind of learning environment that you know as best 413 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:27.660 A:middle L:90% practice in this world, that's totally mediated. And 414 00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:30.259 A:middle L:90% so how do you transition over? And then at 415 00:22:30.259 --> 00:22:33.869 A:middle L:90% that point we're also starting to look at online learning 416 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.660 A:middle L:90% and how do you create those kinds of inter activities 417 00:22:37.660 --> 00:22:40.670 A:middle L:90% ? How do you create those kinds of learning experiences 418 00:22:41.430 --> 00:22:45.009 A:middle L:90% in this mediated world? That's for all intents and 419 00:22:45.009 --> 00:22:48.950 A:middle L:90% purposes, not a world that everybody is comfortable in 420 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:52.380 A:middle L:90% ? So that was that's kind of how I evolved 421 00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:53.900 A:middle L:90% from what I was doing with the computer stuff to 422 00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:56.720 A:middle L:90% evolving into my online work. And really it's all 423 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.619 A:middle L:90% still the same stuff because it's how do you use 424 00:23:00.630 --> 00:23:07.890 A:middle L:90% these resources to reinvent learning opportunities? How do you 425 00:23:07.890 --> 00:23:10.710 A:middle L:90% take these things and make it possible for learning to 426 00:23:10.710 --> 00:23:14.500 A:middle L:90% occur? And so that's that's sort of in my 427 00:23:14.509 --> 00:23:17.579 A:middle L:90% history in terms of my research and how it's evolved 428 00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:19.559 A:middle L:90% . And and actually right now, my current peace 429 00:23:19.569 --> 00:23:23.200 A:middle L:90% is looking at a lot of us who are sort 430 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:25.500 A:middle L:90% of, I know what it calls pioneers, I 431 00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:26.720 A:middle L:90% guess I could call myself a pioneer, a lot 432 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.190 A:middle L:90% of us who worked in this long enough and are 433 00:23:30.190 --> 00:23:33.250 A:middle L:90% very comfortable with this are people who are also designing 434 00:23:33.250 --> 00:23:37.690 A:middle L:90% our own instructions. So we're really designer instructors or 435 00:23:37.690 --> 00:23:41.980 A:middle L:90% instructor designers. But we have both worlds. We 436 00:23:41.980 --> 00:23:45.380 A:middle L:90% have the instructional design world in our in our repertoire 437 00:23:45.390 --> 00:23:48.599 A:middle L:90% of our thinking. And we also have the educational 438 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.289 A:middle L:90% world in our repertoire of thinking. But there are 439 00:23:52.299 --> 00:23:56.849 A:middle L:90% people out there who are designing online learning who have 440 00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:03.789 A:middle L:90% their content and there potentially good instructional practice. They 441 00:24:03.789 --> 00:24:07.950 A:middle L:90% don't have the design world as part of their thinking 442 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.460 A:middle L:90% . So I'm really starting to look at the instructor 443 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:14.410 A:middle L:90% designer who is not a designer, the non designer 444 00:24:14.410 --> 00:24:17.799 A:middle L:90% , instructor designer and what kinds of thinking they're going 445 00:24:17.809 --> 00:24:21.019 A:middle L:90% through Or are there things we need to be doing 446 00:24:21.029 --> 00:24:23.460 A:middle L:90% to facilitate that process, to getting them thinking about 447 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:29.359 A:middle L:90% these same things we think about as we intuitively do 448 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.279 A:middle L:90% as members of the field. So it's kind of 449 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.700 A:middle L:90% looking at it from a different perspective but it's still 450 00:24:34.700 --> 00:24:41.269 A:middle L:90% creating quality online learning experiences but outside my venue of 451 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:47.119 A:middle L:90% it or any kind schooling stuff. So definitely a 452 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:48.210 A:middle L:90% lot of bridges. Yeah there's lots of places you 453 00:24:48.210 --> 00:24:49.849 A:middle L:90% can go with this. I think that's the part 454 00:24:49.849 --> 00:24:55.140 A:middle L:90% that makes it so much fun. I expect you 455 00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:56.210 A:middle L:90% can't get bored with this field. That's the one 456 00:24:56.210 --> 00:24:59.960 A:middle L:90% thing I did learn very early on. It sounds 457 00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:03.049 A:middle L:90% like you've taken. Mhm. What were some of 458 00:25:03.049 --> 00:25:06.549 A:middle L:90% the major ideas or approaches that stimulated your professional growth 459 00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:11.039 A:middle L:90% ? Um Oh golly. I think probably for me 460 00:25:11.049 --> 00:25:15.660 A:middle L:90% one area or one thing was just learning about this 461 00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:18.569 A:middle L:90% thing called instructional design. It had never really been 462 00:25:18.569 --> 00:25:22.400 A:middle L:90% given to me in that sense, never understanding all 463 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:26.950 A:middle L:90% of the nuances and the layers and the levels of 464 00:25:26.950 --> 00:25:30.430 A:middle L:90% your thinking within the context of designing instruction. I 465 00:25:30.430 --> 00:25:32.849 A:middle L:90% was just real lesson plans and did what I did 466 00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:36.000 A:middle L:90% and and I had a couple of methods courses, 467 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.839 A:middle L:90% so I kind of knew how to teach a little 468 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.309 A:middle L:90% of this and I love that little something else and 469 00:25:40.940 --> 00:25:42.910 A:middle L:90% it's there's but there's a deeper layer of thinking and 470 00:25:42.910 --> 00:25:47.680 A:middle L:90% it was that whole instructional design stuff that I I 471 00:25:47.690 --> 00:25:52.559 A:middle L:90% really began to understand now what I didn't know before 472 00:25:52.230 --> 00:25:55.490 A:middle L:90% . The other one was as part of my dissertation 473 00:25:55.490 --> 00:25:57.779 A:middle L:90% work, I got into looking at really delving into 474 00:25:57.779 --> 00:26:03.990 A:middle L:90% the learner and looking very specifically at learners and looking 475 00:26:03.990 --> 00:26:08.529 A:middle L:90% at how you understand the learners and and what are 476 00:26:08.529 --> 00:26:11.630 A:middle L:90% some of the characteristics that the learners bring to the 477 00:26:11.630 --> 00:26:12.190 A:middle L:90% table. And I was working with adults as part 478 00:26:12.190 --> 00:26:15.440 A:middle L:90% of my dissertation. So looking at it, what 479 00:26:15.450 --> 00:26:18.519 A:middle L:90% do adults bring to the table in terms of their 480 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:22.500 A:middle L:90% own preconceived notions, their own approaches to problems that 481 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:26.500 A:middle L:90% you're asking them to solve? What are the things 482 00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:27.700 A:middle L:90% that I need to know about them? So I 483 00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:32.450 A:middle L:90% got really, really very fascinated by all the learner 484 00:26:32.450 --> 00:26:34.140 A:middle L:90% research that was being done. And looking at the 485 00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:37.089 A:middle L:90% way in which I then that took me back to 486 00:26:37.089 --> 00:26:38.339 A:middle L:90% my special end days where I went well, yeah 487 00:26:38.349 --> 00:26:41.500 A:middle L:90% , some of these kids would handle it this way 488 00:26:41.500 --> 00:26:42.460 A:middle L:90% and some of these kids would handle it that way 489 00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:45.859 A:middle L:90% well, duh, now I understand it, but 490 00:26:45.859 --> 00:26:48.380 A:middle L:90% I didn't understand it at that point. So I 491 00:26:48.380 --> 00:26:51.200 A:middle L:90% think that was one of the major things that as 492 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:52.640 A:middle L:90% I got into this field, that was one of 493 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:56.269 A:middle L:90% the major things that really started to move me forward 494 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.359 A:middle L:90% . The other one was looking at the medium itself 495 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.859 A:middle L:90% , looking at the media and looking at these things 496 00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:07.359 A:middle L:90% and how do we construct the environment? How do 497 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:10.059 A:middle L:90% we deal with? And that was a lot of 498 00:27:10.059 --> 00:27:14.240 A:middle L:90% the early work of Popeye Nick and and Mike Melinda 499 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:17.400 A:middle L:90% and Jim Russell, who I actually ended up working 500 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:21.400 A:middle L:90% with in terms of that there book. But it 501 00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:22.440 A:middle L:90% became one of those things as I looked at this 502 00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:26.119 A:middle L:90% , they really were not talking so much about the 503 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:27.910 A:middle L:90% actual tools as much as they were. How do 504 00:27:27.910 --> 00:27:33.069 A:middle L:90% you create the venue to make it possible for the 505 00:27:33.069 --> 00:27:36.150 A:middle L:90% learner to take the learning experience and actually make it 506 00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:38.150 A:middle L:90% meaningful for them? And so that became an important 507 00:27:38.150 --> 00:27:41.849 A:middle L:90% aspect of what I was learning to sew between looking 508 00:27:41.849 --> 00:27:44.140 A:middle L:90% at the learner themselves, but also looking at how 509 00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:47.250 A:middle L:90% the medium can in fact influence the way the learner 510 00:27:47.250 --> 00:27:51.259 A:middle L:90% interfaces with information. It was also important for me 511 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:53.210 A:middle L:90% and so out of them, I think I've grown 512 00:27:53.210 --> 00:27:56.809 A:middle L:90% into more of who I am today, I think 513 00:27:56.819 --> 00:28:02.069 A:middle L:90% thank you for sharing what were some of the most 514 00:28:02.069 --> 00:28:04.170 A:middle L:90% important trends in the field during their career? Well 515 00:28:04.170 --> 00:28:06.809 A:middle L:90% , as I said, I started off before we 516 00:28:06.809 --> 00:28:10.619 A:middle L:90% all had desktops. Mhm I started off before we 517 00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:12.920 A:middle L:90% I actually the first two years I taught the media 518 00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:15.400 A:middle L:90% course, I had to teach the kids how to 519 00:28:15.410 --> 00:28:18.940 A:middle L:90% throw in the 16 millimeter projector and how to flip 520 00:28:18.940 --> 00:28:22.769 A:middle L:90% a slide over in the slide train so that this 521 00:28:22.769 --> 00:28:27.460 A:middle L:90% slide was right side up. Uh That's very embarrassing 522 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:36.420 A:middle L:90% . I actually um started off looking at how do 523 00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:41.990 A:middle L:90% you use the overhead projector in a constructive and creative 524 00:28:41.990 --> 00:28:44.230 A:middle L:90% ways? I mean I was teaching kids how to 525 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:45.940 A:middle L:90% teach with an overhead projector. I was teaching with 526 00:28:45.940 --> 00:28:48.950 A:middle L:90% an overhead projector. So a lot of the stuff 527 00:28:48.950 --> 00:28:53.009 A:middle L:90% that you take naturally now wasn't around them or if 528 00:28:53.009 --> 00:28:56.960 A:middle L:90% it was around, it was not something that we 529 00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:59.690 A:middle L:90% could afford. Uh, in schools of education, 530 00:28:59.690 --> 00:29:00.950 A:middle L:90% they tended to be an engineering schools or they tended 531 00:29:00.950 --> 00:29:04.049 A:middle L:90% to be in the high science areas or computer science 532 00:29:04.049 --> 00:29:07.369 A:middle L:90% areas. They weren't in schools, they weren't in 533 00:29:07.369 --> 00:29:10.880 A:middle L:90% colleges of education. So we didn't have a lot 534 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:12.730 A:middle L:90% of that fun stuff. And it wasn't until I 535 00:29:12.730 --> 00:29:17.259 A:middle L:90% actually was in the business of teacher education that we 536 00:29:17.259 --> 00:29:18.680 A:middle L:90% actually started getting some of those fun tools and some 537 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.660 A:middle L:90% of those fun things. Um, I started teaching 538 00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:29.740 A:middle L:90% , um, logo and I started teaching hyper card 539 00:29:29.740 --> 00:29:32.910 A:middle L:90% and, uh, some of those other earlier languages 540 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:34.150 A:middle L:90% . I, one of my first experiences and, 541 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:37.150 A:middle L:90% and the big chuckle on this one is my current 542 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.769 A:middle L:90% university president. Was one of the people who was 543 00:29:41.779 --> 00:29:44.569 A:middle L:90% at the University of Illinois at the time. I 544 00:29:44.569 --> 00:29:47.599 A:middle L:90% was using tutor language, which was part of the 545 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:49.259 A:middle L:90% old plato system. Okay, that's long before your 546 00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:53.640 A:middle L:90% time. Um, and they had a plasma screen 547 00:29:53.650 --> 00:29:56.450 A:middle L:90% interface. It was a touch screen interface. It 548 00:29:56.450 --> 00:30:00.759 A:middle L:90% was really very, very basic, but they used 549 00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.349 A:middle L:90% a special language called tutor. It's the only programming 550 00:30:03.349 --> 00:30:07.509 A:middle L:90% book I ever kept. Ironically, my current university 551 00:30:07.509 --> 00:30:11.660 A:middle L:90% president was one of those graduate students on the backside 552 00:30:11.660 --> 00:30:15.359 A:middle L:90% of the machinery, so to speak. He was 553 00:30:15.369 --> 00:30:19.670 A:middle L:90% one of those who was working on designing the code 554 00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.269 A:middle L:90% for tutoring. And I just, when he mentioned 555 00:30:23.269 --> 00:30:26.619 A:middle L:90% that I just about fell off the chair laughing because 556 00:30:26.619 --> 00:30:27.990 A:middle L:90% I was probably the only person in the room who 557 00:30:27.990 --> 00:30:30.660 A:middle L:90% knew what he was talking about. So he was 558 00:30:30.660 --> 00:30:33.160 A:middle L:90% coding tutor. I was trying to use tutor. 559 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.240 A:middle L:90% It was just one of those, it was another 560 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:37.960 A:middle L:90% one of those programming languages I learned, but I 561 00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:41.200 A:middle L:90% learned a lot about uh, in the process that 562 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:42.849 A:middle L:90% I was, one of the things I learned was 563 00:30:42.849 --> 00:30:45.240 A:middle L:90% never get comfortable with any of it because tomorrow is 564 00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:48.609 A:middle L:90% a whole new day and a whole new thing is 565 00:30:48.609 --> 00:30:49.619 A:middle L:90% going to come down the pike and a whole new 566 00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:53.059 A:middle L:90% way of doing things with these tools is going to 567 00:30:53.059 --> 00:30:56.539 A:middle L:90% happen. So you have to build into what you're 568 00:30:56.549 --> 00:30:57.509 A:middle L:90% doing, no matter who you are and no matter 569 00:30:57.509 --> 00:31:00.630 A:middle L:90% where you are, you have to build flexibility into 570 00:31:00.630 --> 00:31:04.279 A:middle L:90% your thinking constantly. But the underlying pieces, learning 571 00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:07.920 A:middle L:90% is learning, Learning is there. We still haven't 572 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.829 A:middle L:90% solved all the questions we have with regard to it 573 00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:14.140 A:middle L:90% , but the ultimate fundamental thing that we're looking at 574 00:31:14.140 --> 00:31:19.950 A:middle L:90% is improving learning experiences. So, um I think 575 00:31:19.950 --> 00:31:22.950 A:middle L:90% that's kind of where I was going to that question 576 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.049 A:middle L:90% , but who are some of the people who have 577 00:31:26.059 --> 00:31:29.660 A:middle L:90% had the most impact on your professional growth? Why 578 00:31:29.789 --> 00:31:30.750 A:middle L:90% I never met some of these people? Or I've 579 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:34.319 A:middle L:90% met them in very brief ways. But then there 580 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.859 A:middle L:90% are those who I have, I think I have 581 00:31:36.869 --> 00:31:41.000 A:middle L:90% two genres of people. I think early on it 582 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:44.750 A:middle L:90% was Leslie, Briggs and robert gagne because that was 583 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:47.970 A:middle L:90% the school of thought was working on in terms of 584 00:31:47.970 --> 00:31:49.700 A:middle L:90% my id back. They were the ones who were 585 00:31:49.700 --> 00:31:53.210 A:middle L:90% presented to me as being the, the experts. 586 00:31:55.099 --> 00:31:57.799 A:middle L:90% Walter Dick was another one. I met him years 587 00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:00.210 A:middle L:90% later and it was like, oh, you're walter 588 00:32:00.210 --> 00:32:01.869 A:middle L:90% Dick. I would never have picked him out of 589 00:32:01.869 --> 00:32:06.019 A:middle L:90% a crab because he wasn't who I thought. I 590 00:32:06.019 --> 00:32:07.720 A:middle L:90% mean, I had these sort of pinnacle views of 591 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:09.819 A:middle L:90% these people, but those were early on. They 592 00:32:09.819 --> 00:32:13.170 A:middle L:90% were books that I read. Those were the people's 593 00:32:13.539 --> 00:32:15.009 A:middle L:90% materials that I read. Those were the, the 594 00:32:15.019 --> 00:32:17.470 A:middle L:90% sort of the authority figures at that point when I 595 00:32:17.470 --> 00:32:22.920 A:middle L:90% started. But as I evolved along, I ran 596 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:27.450 A:middle L:90% into people like Mike Hanifin and charlie Rangel. Ooh 597 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:32.049 A:middle L:90% , you know, David Jonathan, others in that 598 00:32:32.049 --> 00:32:37.309 A:middle L:90% same era of people who are doing fantastically amazing things 599 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:42.880 A:middle L:90% with this field that I hadn't thought about. So 600 00:32:42.890 --> 00:32:45.190 A:middle L:90% I moved from the old classics into sort of the 601 00:32:45.190 --> 00:32:49.609 A:middle L:90% modernists as it were in terms of the field. 602 00:32:49.609 --> 00:32:52.369 A:middle L:90% And I think in some ways they were also very 603 00:32:52.369 --> 00:32:54.789 A:middle L:90% influential in my thinking about what are some of my 604 00:32:54.809 --> 00:32:58.029 A:middle L:90% , my thoughts. I love some of the work 605 00:32:58.029 --> 00:33:00.160 A:middle L:90% that the work that David was doing in particular with 606 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:05.049 A:middle L:90% regard to looking at problem solving in complex, simple 607 00:33:05.049 --> 00:33:07.049 A:middle L:90% and simple to complex problems. And how do you 608 00:33:07.049 --> 00:33:12.809 A:middle L:90% develop problems for Children to solve? Use and have 609 00:33:12.809 --> 00:33:16.339 A:middle L:90% them interface with the tools and technologies to as resources 610 00:33:16.339 --> 00:33:20.839 A:middle L:90% that they can use. So basically moving them into 611 00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:24.670 A:middle L:90% learning but moving them into learning by giving them problems 612 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:29.970 A:middle L:90% as the way of approaching the learning. And that 613 00:33:29.970 --> 00:33:31.880 A:middle L:90% was a major the ah ha moment for me in 614 00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:35.539 A:middle L:90% terms of the, I changed my style of teaching 615 00:33:35.549 --> 00:33:37.609 A:middle L:90% at that point. So instead of telling people about 616 00:33:37.609 --> 00:33:43.309 A:middle L:90% stuff, I started creating scenarios for them and presenting 617 00:33:43.309 --> 00:33:45.430 A:middle L:90% situations for them that they then had to delve into 618 00:33:45.430 --> 00:33:50.079 A:middle L:90% the work and into the information to be able to 619 00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:53.849 A:middle L:90% solve that problem. And so my whole way of 620 00:33:53.859 --> 00:33:58.460 A:middle L:90% approaching teaching changed because of some of that work. 621 00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:00.190 A:middle L:90% I I think there are, you know, I 622 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:02.779 A:middle L:90% just went to a very interesting session with a young 623 00:34:02.779 --> 00:34:06.990 A:middle L:90% man who kept talking about his dissertation and I he 624 00:34:06.990 --> 00:34:07.599 A:middle L:90% said he's a newbie in the field, so to 625 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:10.170 A:middle L:90% speak. And a lot of what he was saying 626 00:34:10.170 --> 00:34:13.230 A:middle L:90% it was like well, that's that's very interesting. 627 00:34:13.230 --> 00:34:15.530 A:middle L:90% And I should make a mental note to myself to 628 00:34:15.530 --> 00:34:17.289 A:middle L:90% go and look more at his work, but also 629 00:34:17.289 --> 00:34:20.289 A:middle L:90% to kind of delve a little bit deeper into some 630 00:34:20.289 --> 00:34:22.599 A:middle L:90% of the references and the resources he was using. 631 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:24.510 A:middle L:90% Because it was it was a good curiosity. So 632 00:34:24.510 --> 00:34:28.320 A:middle L:90% I think it's it's all along the continuum of, 633 00:34:28.329 --> 00:34:30.030 A:middle L:90% you know, the classics, some of the people 634 00:34:30.030 --> 00:34:34.360 A:middle L:90% who I would like to call contemporaries, hopefully they 635 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:36.849 A:middle L:90% would call me a contemporary. And then I think 636 00:34:36.849 --> 00:34:38.039 A:middle L:90% there's the new people out there who are doing some 637 00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:43.059 A:middle L:90% really neat, good stuff that I think is also 638 00:34:43.059 --> 00:34:45.869 A:middle L:90% very important. And I think my students have also 639 00:34:45.869 --> 00:34:47.719 A:middle L:90% been very important to me in terms of influencing me 640 00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:52.559 A:middle L:90% to think not just my doc students, but even 641 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:54.289 A:middle L:90% my master students, the teachers I work with, 642 00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:58.869 A:middle L:90% but also the undergraduate students, because they asked me 643 00:34:58.869 --> 00:35:00.840 A:middle L:90% the why would I want to do that question? 644 00:35:00.849 --> 00:35:02.519 A:middle L:90% And it's like, well, that's a very good 645 00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:06.710 A:middle L:90% question because I said, so isn't sufficient used to 646 00:35:06.710 --> 00:35:09.260 A:middle L:90% be, but it isn't anymore. So it's getting 647 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:14.719 A:middle L:90% to understand that one of the beauties of this field 648 00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:15.599 A:middle L:90% , but one of the things that I like most 649 00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:19.559 A:middle L:90% about what I do is I seem to be able 650 00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.250 A:middle L:90% to move around within all of the people in the 651 00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:25.469 A:middle L:90% field and be able to, I find snippets of 652 00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:30.079 A:middle L:90% what everybody has been a factor in terms of my 653 00:35:30.090 --> 00:35:32.500 A:middle L:90% thinking, what do you think was the greatest accomplishment 654 00:35:32.500 --> 00:35:37.199 A:middle L:90% of your career? Why? I kept looking at 655 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:38.250 A:middle L:90% that court, She sent me these questions before, 656 00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:43.000 A:middle L:90% I kept looking at that question going, I don't 657 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:46.360 A:middle L:90% know, I don't honestly know if I have the 658 00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:49.880 A:middle L:90% greatest accomplishment. I'm sure people would say, oh 659 00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:51.820 A:middle L:90% , you've done this and you've done this. And 660 00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:54.090 A:middle L:90% in fact, when I got invited to be part 661 00:35:54.090 --> 00:35:58.260 A:middle L:90% of this video sequence, I said to Barbara, 662 00:35:58.940 --> 00:36:00.960 A:middle L:90% I really don't know why you would be asking me 663 00:36:01.429 --> 00:36:04.860 A:middle L:90% . And her comment was, and she started ticking 664 00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:07.510 A:middle L:90% off all these things. Um I think among other 665 00:36:07.510 --> 00:36:13.510 A:middle L:90% things, I've been able to perhaps provide some leadership 666 00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:15.340 A:middle L:90% to the association, I am a past president. 667 00:36:15.730 --> 00:36:20.860 A:middle L:90% Um it's going to be proud of, I think 668 00:36:20.869 --> 00:36:24.800 A:middle L:90% I've uh done some things within my writing. A 669 00:36:24.809 --> 00:36:28.960 A:middle L:90% couple of text books that are out there have been 670 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:32.420 A:middle L:90% , I think important, particularly the, the instructional 671 00:36:32.429 --> 00:36:36.340 A:middle L:90% technology and media from learning book is one that I 672 00:36:36.340 --> 00:36:39.210 A:middle L:90% think has evolved since I joined the writing team, 673 00:36:39.210 --> 00:36:43.469 A:middle L:90% but it's also a book that I when I meet 674 00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:45.949 A:middle L:90% undergraduate or graduate students ago. Oh yeah, I 675 00:36:45.949 --> 00:36:47.579 A:middle L:90% used that book when I was, I think it's 676 00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:51.570 A:middle L:90% a book that has influenced them in some ways, 677 00:36:51.579 --> 00:36:54.250 A:middle L:90% so, and perhaps I've influenced teacher educational level, 678 00:36:54.630 --> 00:37:00.179 A:middle L:90% but I think probably my greatest accomplishment as I watch 679 00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:05.460 A:middle L:90% them walk around and have a factorial positions and present 680 00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:08.469 A:middle L:90% and right, are my students, um because I've 681 00:37:08.469 --> 00:37:10.889 A:middle L:90% somehow been able to touch a little bit of them 682 00:37:10.900 --> 00:37:14.380 A:middle L:90% in a way that's made them be able to move 683 00:37:14.380 --> 00:37:17.739 A:middle L:90% forward in their own careers and been able to become 684 00:37:17.750 --> 00:37:22.719 A:middle L:90% important in their own venue. And I think that 685 00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:24.460 A:middle L:90% that's an important aspect of, I think probably if 686 00:37:24.460 --> 00:37:27.869 A:middle L:90% I had to pick an accomplishment, I think it's 687 00:37:27.869 --> 00:37:34.260 A:middle L:90% my students, I hope it's my students, How 688 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:37.349 A:middle L:90% do you want to be remembered within this profession? 689 00:37:37.230 --> 00:37:38.849 A:middle L:90% Uh, you know, that was the other question 690 00:37:38.849 --> 00:37:43.760 A:middle L:90% I kept going. You know, it's it's kind 691 00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.280 A:middle L:90% of an interesting puzzle I would like, and this 692 00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:47.900 A:middle L:90% makes you feel like, you know, you're old 693 00:37:47.900 --> 00:37:51.050 A:middle L:90% and gray and you're in the nursing home or even 694 00:37:51.059 --> 00:37:52.630 A:middle L:90% past that point and people like, oh yeah, 695 00:37:52.630 --> 00:37:55.230 A:middle L:90% I remember her, she was the lady who was 696 00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:58.869 A:middle L:90% , you know, I think what I would like 697 00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:02.070 A:middle L:90% most for people to remember, oh, in terms 698 00:38:02.070 --> 00:38:05.880 A:middle L:90% of things that I've tried to contribute is that I'm 699 00:38:05.889 --> 00:38:10.070 A:middle L:90% trying to get people to think about what it is 700 00:38:10.070 --> 00:38:14.679 A:middle L:90% that we are doing and how can we do them 701 00:38:14.690 --> 00:38:17.849 A:middle L:90% differently? Because what we're doing is what we used 702 00:38:17.849 --> 00:38:22.280 A:middle L:90% to do. I don't want to think about today 703 00:38:22.289 --> 00:38:23.000 A:middle L:90% . I don't even want to think about tomorrow. 704 00:38:23.010 --> 00:38:24.730 A:middle L:90% I want to think where are we going to be 705 00:38:24.730 --> 00:38:29.130 A:middle L:90% 10 years from now or 20 years from now in 706 00:38:29.130 --> 00:38:31.880 A:middle L:90% terms of education, when I'm working with undergraduates, 707 00:38:31.889 --> 00:38:35.329 A:middle L:90% I don't want to think about them in terms of 708 00:38:35.340 --> 00:38:37.599 A:middle L:90% this semester Or when you go out to student teaching 709 00:38:37.610 --> 00:38:40.659 A:middle L:90% two semesters from now, I would like to be 710 00:38:40.670 --> 00:38:44.389 A:middle L:90% remembered as someone who is trying to get people to 711 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.960 A:middle L:90% think differently out of the box is always what they 712 00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:51.519 A:middle L:90% say, but really not, you can still be 713 00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:54.389 A:middle L:90% in the box but thinking it differently. I think 714 00:38:54.389 --> 00:38:58.219 A:middle L:90% if you look at the classroom, if you look 715 00:38:58.219 --> 00:39:00.880 A:middle L:90% at it from the perspective of this is the entity 716 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:04.010 A:middle L:90% I work in, how can I work in this 717 00:39:04.010 --> 00:39:07.519 A:middle L:90% entity differently so that the Children or the students who 718 00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:13.250 A:middle L:90% are in this entity in this box come out better 719 00:39:13.619 --> 00:39:15.909 A:middle L:90% as a result of it, not just knowing the 720 00:39:15.909 --> 00:39:17.750 A:middle L:90% stuff that I'm trying to stop into their heads, 721 00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:23.570 A:middle L:90% but actually thinking better about how to continue to think 722 00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:28.090 A:middle L:90% about the stuff. So it's not ending the course 723 00:39:28.090 --> 00:39:29.519 A:middle L:90% , closing the book, taking it back to the 724 00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:31.880 A:middle L:90% bookstore, it's getting to the end of the class 725 00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:35.710 A:middle L:90% and going, wow, I have a whole lot 726 00:39:35.710 --> 00:39:37.409 A:middle L:90% more, I need to think about and I need 727 00:39:37.409 --> 00:39:39.889 A:middle L:90% to think about it in the context of this and 728 00:39:39.900 --> 00:39:45.050 A:middle L:90% this and this and I need to rethink these things 729 00:39:45.340 --> 00:39:49.159 A:middle L:90% as I rethink this stuff too. So it's it's 730 00:39:49.170 --> 00:39:51.949 A:middle L:90% I guess I would like to be remembered as someone 731 00:39:51.949 --> 00:39:55.130 A:middle L:90% who has tried to prompt people to rethink what we 732 00:39:55.130 --> 00:39:59.230 A:middle L:90% do both as and within our own profession, but 733 00:39:59.230 --> 00:40:01.289 A:middle L:90% as a grander hole of what do we how do 734 00:40:01.289 --> 00:40:05.989 A:middle L:90% we rethink what we do in education? And I 735 00:40:05.989 --> 00:40:07.230 A:middle L:90% don't know if I'll be remembered for that or just 736 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.539 A:middle L:90% being a crazy old lady who shows up periodically and 737 00:40:10.539 --> 00:40:15.730 A:middle L:90% goes, you know about that. I honestly think 738 00:40:15.909 --> 00:40:21.239 A:middle L:90% I would like to I'd like I've always wanted to 739 00:40:21.710 --> 00:40:24.260 A:middle L:90% revolutionized education. I don't think I'll be known as 740 00:40:24.260 --> 00:40:28.960 A:middle L:90% the revolutionary in education, but I think I've tried 741 00:40:28.969 --> 00:40:34.340 A:middle L:90% to make others think about how they can change and 742 00:40:34.340 --> 00:40:37.599 A:middle L:90% I guess that's more important to me. Is there 743 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:39.329 A:middle L:90% something I have an asset we'd like to shoot? 744 00:40:40.489 --> 00:40:44.230 A:middle L:90% I think what we need to do as a profession 745 00:40:44.909 --> 00:40:47.710 A:middle L:90% is stop being so damn serious about ourselves. I 746 00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:52.860 A:middle L:90% think we need to really stop dwelling on the seriousness 747 00:40:52.860 --> 00:40:54.929 A:middle L:90% of it and learn how to have fun with it 748 00:40:55.610 --> 00:40:59.030 A:middle L:90% . When I first started working with these computers, 749 00:40:59.710 --> 00:41:01.639 A:middle L:90% I had fun and my kids and my hip fun 750 00:41:02.409 --> 00:41:06.530 A:middle L:90% . Um, I got so that I was like 751 00:41:06.539 --> 00:41:08.130 A:middle L:90% , every day was a new, exciting adventure. 752 00:41:08.610 --> 00:41:12.449 A:middle L:90% I'm I'm not a gamer where I was playing games 753 00:41:12.449 --> 00:41:15.070 A:middle L:90% with the kids because I was trying to figure out 754 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:15.980 A:middle L:90% what kinds of things you can do with this. 755 00:41:16.710 --> 00:41:20.539 A:middle L:90% Um, I was trying to always explore it and 756 00:41:20.539 --> 00:41:22.199 A:middle L:90% change it and do things that and use it in 757 00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:25.780 A:middle L:90% different ways. Um, I had one day I 758 00:41:25.780 --> 00:41:30.519 A:middle L:90% had my superintendent and a bunch of visitors were walking 759 00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:32.289 A:middle L:90% through the building and I had the computer lab of 760 00:41:32.300 --> 00:41:35.960 A:middle L:90% two computers in the back of my classroom at that 761 00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:37.769 A:middle L:90% point. And um one of the kids was back 762 00:41:37.769 --> 00:41:40.079 A:middle L:90% there when he was playing frogger and he was trying 763 00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:44.050 A:middle L:90% to get this little thinking across the highway, you 764 00:41:44.050 --> 00:41:45.079 A:middle L:90% know, with all these obstacles and you know, 765 00:41:45.139 --> 00:41:47.460 A:middle L:90% you have to try over again and you turn points 766 00:41:47.460 --> 00:41:50.159 A:middle L:90% if you could jump over things or if you get 767 00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:52.489 A:middle L:90% past things and you kept turning these little points and 768 00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:55.019 A:middle L:90% the principal came, are the superintendent came up because 769 00:41:55.019 --> 00:41:57.889 A:middle L:90% you've got the kids playing games? I said, 770 00:41:57.900 --> 00:42:00.630 A:middle L:90% ask him, He said, what do you mean 771 00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:01.340 A:middle L:90% ? I said ask him what the objective is. 772 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:05.130 A:middle L:90% I used to play poker with the kids a lot 773 00:42:05.139 --> 00:42:07.309 A:middle L:90% to back on my speech therapy days. I used 774 00:42:07.309 --> 00:42:08.889 A:middle L:90% to play poker a lot with the kids five card 775 00:42:08.889 --> 00:42:13.070 A:middle L:90% draw. And one day principal came in and she 776 00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:16.309 A:middle L:90% looked at me and I said we're working on articulation 777 00:42:16.699 --> 00:42:23.829 A:middle L:90% . She said okay and we had to bet but 778 00:42:23.829 --> 00:42:29.320 A:middle L:90% the betting had was in specific to that particular trials 779 00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:34.090 A:middle L:90% speech problem. So the child with the s problem 780 00:42:34.099 --> 00:42:37.980 A:middle L:90% could only bet certain amounts or certain kinds of things 781 00:42:37.989 --> 00:42:40.980 A:middle L:90% that dealt with s. Words that began with the 782 00:42:40.989 --> 00:42:45.510 A:middle L:90% ssl I had another one within our problem and he 783 00:42:45.510 --> 00:42:49.659 A:middle L:90% could only bet with words that began with the R 784 00:42:49.659 --> 00:42:52.179 A:middle L:90% . Sound. And so we were working on our 785 00:42:52.179 --> 00:42:55.349 A:middle L:90% specific sounds but we were playing poker now I'm sure 786 00:42:55.349 --> 00:42:58.099 A:middle L:90% the parents weren't really thrilled that I was teaching them 787 00:42:58.099 --> 00:43:01.719 A:middle L:90% five card draw but engage the kids in this experience 788 00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:06.429 A:middle L:90% and I had fun to me speech therapy was the 789 00:43:06.429 --> 00:43:08.760 A:middle L:90% most boring thing anyone could do. No offense to 790 00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:10.599 A:middle L:90% S. L. P. S. But to 791 00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:13.610 A:middle L:90% me it was the most boring thing if we're sitting 792 00:43:13.610 --> 00:43:15.309 A:middle L:90% there going, okay, we've done the list. 793 00:43:15.900 --> 00:43:22.349 A:middle L:90% See Sons Sue. That's not fun. And it 794 00:43:22.349 --> 00:43:23.150 A:middle L:90% doesn't make it fun for the kids. And it 795 00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:27.179 A:middle L:90% certainly wasn't making fun for me to be able to 796 00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:30.800 A:middle L:90% take something and just have fun with it and play 797 00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:31.420 A:middle L:90% with him. And I think that's, we take 798 00:43:31.420 --> 00:43:35.019 A:middle L:90% ourselves too seriously. I think we need to learn 799 00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:37.960 A:middle L:90% to have fun and I think we need to learn 800 00:43:37.969 --> 00:43:42.019 A:middle L:90% how to take that fun and to use it in 801 00:43:42.019 --> 00:43:44.940 A:middle L:90% meaningful ways. And I don't know if you ask 802 00:43:44.940 --> 00:43:45.389 A:middle L:90% me that question before or not, but I felt 803 00:43:45.389 --> 00:43:49.340 A:middle L:90% like I needed to say that. Yes. Thank 804 00:43:49.340 --> 00:43:52.099 A:middle L:90% you the answer. Thank you so much for sharing 805 00:43:52.110 --> 00:43:54.019 A:middle L:90% today. Well, thank you, thank you for 806 00:43:54.019 --> 00:43:54.719 A:middle L:90% the invitation.