WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en 00:00:02.400 --> 00:00:11.000 [Music] 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:16.320 Okay, good afternoon. Thank you everyone for coming. 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:19.119 This is the women and gender and international development discussion 00:00:19.119 --> 00:00:23.279 series and this is the first event of our spring series 00:00:23.279 --> 00:00:25.680 and this is the first time in this beautiful new room and we're really 00:00:25.680 --> 00:00:28.560 excited to be here. 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:32.719 OIRED, the office of international research education and development, 00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:36.880 has been hosting these events for several years and it's a way that we 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:41.600 bring in different perspectives of women and gender and we also raise 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:46.719 awareness in the community and campus about international events. 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:51.039 I'd also like to mention before I introduce our speaker that next month 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:55.520 on March 5th we will be having a special panel discussion in the same room 00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:59.199 at 12 o'clock where we're going to be talking about cross-cultural 00:00:59.199 --> 00:01:03.359 perspectives on women's education and we're going to have international 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:07.520 students from different regions talking about their experiences in 00:01:07.520 --> 00:01:10.880 education in their home countries and perhaps some 00:01:10.880 --> 00:01:13.280 of the gender-based challenges they faced 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:17.280 and comparing those to their experiences at Virginia Tech. 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:20.479 So please feel free to join us for that event and 00:01:20.479 --> 00:01:24.159 if anyone hasn't signed up we have sign ups in both corners here please do that 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:27.680 before you leave. And now it's my privilege to introduce 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:34.159 our speaker today, Pallavi Raonka, who is a first-year doctoral student in sociology. 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:38.479 She got her master's from Tata institute of social science 00:01:38.479 --> 00:01:43.200 in India in social work, and she studied under jean dries a well-known Indian 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:46.799 academic and she spent many years working for 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:51.280 different grassroots organizations in chalkland India and she's also 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.079 associated with the right to food campaign and her research 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:59.119 here will feed back into that campaign. And today she'll be discussing with us 00:01:59.119 --> 00:02:03.119 on the impacts of this pension plan from a grassroots perspective 00:02:03.119 --> 00:02:06.880 and especially looking at its impact on single women and elderly 00:02:06.880 --> 00:02:10.560 so it's my privilege to introduce you. [Applause] 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:24.319 [Pallavi Raonka] So hi everyone, thank you OIRED friends from there for 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:30.400 organizing this. So today I'm going to present 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:35.200 one of my research study that i did back in 2013 00:02:35.200 --> 00:02:40.640 february in india the place that where i conducted the study is the place 00:02:40.640 --> 00:02:46.160 where i spent almost two years and living and staying with the tribals 00:02:46.160 --> 00:02:49.840 or what we call in india's adiwasi 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:53.120 and this is the place where currently ongoing 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:57.519 maoist movement which is uh sort of one of the big 00:02:57.519 --> 00:03:04.560 rebellions that we see in India um is currently going on over there 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:11.440 so um before i start discussing about my study 00:03:11.440 --> 00:03:17.840 um i would give you a little background on this field setting because 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:22.159 this has been conducted in a area which is very poor 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:25.440 where the sub uh the malnourishment deaths 00:03:25.440 --> 00:03:28.799 are more than sub-saharan african countries 00:03:28.799 --> 00:03:36.319 and this is 90 percent rural and tribal area um so this study was 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:43.840 conducted in nine villages and um we interviewed around 81 people 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:49.519 this was conducted in kuti district and 00:03:49.519 --> 00:03:57.360 um like you have cities in you us we call them um districts in india 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:01.840 and then one district has like one um districts 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:05.120 have blocks and blocks have panchayats and punjabs have villages and every 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:08.640 panchayat has like 14 000 people which is equal into the 00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:14.480 radford population over here um this pen this uh this research was 00:04:14.480 --> 00:04:18.880 about look was looking into the implementations of the pension schemes 00:04:18.880 --> 00:04:22.560 now these pension schemes are a part of food program in india 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:26.960 they are the pension schemes which helps 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.960 kind of people to sustain they are not like the pensions 00:04:30.960 --> 00:04:34.560 that you get like after retirement these are pension schemes that you get if you 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.000 are under below poverty line in india as we 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:42.080 as i proceed i will talk more about my research 00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:46.000 currently there is like an ongoing debate in india and not just in india 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.240 you see it across the world that there's like a debate on cutting down on 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:53.919 welfare schemes and one of the major arguments given for 00:04:53.919 --> 00:04:57.600 that is it doesn't reach to the intended the 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:00.960 poor it should reach because there's so much of corruption 00:05:00.960 --> 00:05:04.880 and everything involved in it uh but what we found 00:05:04.880 --> 00:05:08.960 in this study was very interesting apart from other schemes that were 00:05:08.960 --> 00:05:13.199 we were monitoring at that time we found this particular scheme pension scheme 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:16.960 was doing quite well and this was a surprise for us 00:05:16.960 --> 00:05:20.960 because this is a place which is known known for its um 00:05:20.960 --> 00:05:25.280 failure in governance it's ops there's so much of corruption over there 00:05:25.280 --> 00:05:30.400 so this scheme doing well was altogether surprised and then we conducted a 00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:34.000 study to know why it is like this and also 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:40.000 um there is a debate in india kind of going on to 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.280 kind of universalize these pensions for everyone 00:05:43.280 --> 00:05:48.400 so this study is kind of was used for advocacy work to support this 00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:52.560 look this is going to the intended and it is serving its purpose 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:58.400 um i would start with a brief case study 00:05:58.479 --> 00:06:02.720 kolavati devi is an old widow from munda tribe 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:06.160 who lives with her son in jikhi village of siladon 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:11.759 panchayat we asked her do you receive pension every month 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:16.080 because you don't receive pension every month it comes once in four months 00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:22.960 she said yes i receive 6.66 a month that is what 00:06:22.960 --> 00:06:30.560 she gets um although not sure about her age she is aware that she receives 6.65 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:35.520 66 cents every one and she showed her updated pass book to us 00:06:35.520 --> 00:06:39.919 now uh like it's a very common thing if you go 00:06:39.919 --> 00:06:44.080 in like villages in india and you ask them about their age people 00:06:44.080 --> 00:06:48.000 people won't know their age because the birth certificates are not made 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:52.080 they don't know how old they are so it's very difficult to say 00:06:52.080 --> 00:06:55.759 who gets pension and who doesn't get pension but 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:59.759 you don't know your age but you do you do know how much amount you get like 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:04.080 this was a very positive thing and then when she showed her her pass 00:07:04.080 --> 00:07:09.120 book which was updated updated was like a very um 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:12.479 like empowering thing for all of us to see because 00:07:12.479 --> 00:07:16.000 if you have your password then there is a surety that you're getting your money 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.120 if you don't have your password then there are a lot of questions 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:22.720 there might be someone else taking your money so 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:26.319 it's like a common thing like you find villagers and religious people don't 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.680 have the password they're with someone else who gets the money for them 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.960 and distributes to them and just takes some amount for getting 00:07:32.960 --> 00:07:38.479 that money out um essentially the person is the middleman 00:07:38.479 --> 00:07:43.680 however she said she goes to the bank only once in three or four months 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:48.000 as it does not make any sense to go every month to collect a meager amount 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.319 of six dollars my son accompanies me and in the process 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:57.280 he loses a day's wages too now this is important like because the 00:07:57.280 --> 00:08:00.720 banks are so far and she's so old that she can't go alone 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.319 so the the son accompanies her and he loses his daily 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:07.120 wage and we are talking about the people 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:10.879 whose lives actually depend on what they earn the whole day that is 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:14.960 what decides what me hum if they would get meal that day or 00:08:14.960 --> 00:08:19.199 not so a day wage in india is around um 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:24.879 two dollars round about like two or maybe less than that at times 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.479 we have to walk a long distance to find transport 00:08:28.479 --> 00:08:32.320 and it's it cost us because each of us like my 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:39.039 my son and me um around six um sorry around one dollar and 20 cents 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:43.680 the queue is in the bank is very long and my son stands for me 00:08:43.680 --> 00:08:48.800 as i am unable to do so as the bank is overcrowded the clerks do not have the 00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:53.760 time to explain me about the amount in my account now this is very important 00:08:53.760 --> 00:08:56.399 because you're talking about people who cannot 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:59.760 read and write how do you ensure that they are getting them 00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:03.200 entitlements if you go to the if i go to the bank 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:07.760 like like leave them even i am quite new to the american banking system and i go 00:09:07.760 --> 00:09:10.959 and ask the banker what happened to my bank account and if 00:09:10.959 --> 00:09:14.560 he is not he doesn't explains me and he's not well 00:09:14.560 --> 00:09:17.440 behaved with me well behaves how do i confront that 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:24.640 person how do i talk to that person um i have to ask my son every time to 00:09:24.640 --> 00:09:27.680 explain this to me like she's talking about the amount she has a 00:09:27.680 --> 00:09:31.600 hazard in a bank with the money received i managed to buy 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:36.800 rice oil and soap for myself and if any money is left over i buy some 00:09:36.800 --> 00:09:41.360 clothes so she's talking about how this is this 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:47.279 the amount that she gets it's crucial for her for you know she's buying things 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:51.519 which are like just helping her to uh helping her to i mean these are 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:54.080 things which you require for subsistence like rice 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:59.120 like oil and soap um and that time some money is left then 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:03.040 she buys some um if if there's any money left she'll 00:10:03.040 --> 00:10:06.000 buy clothes for her 00:10:06.079 --> 00:10:11.120 and kolavathi's stories illustrate both the value of social security pensions 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:14.560 for many widows an elderly person in rural india 00:10:14.560 --> 00:10:18.079 and the hurdles they face in securing these meager payments 00:10:18.079 --> 00:10:22.880 we met her in the course of the study conducted in february 2013 to understand 00:10:22.880 --> 00:10:25.440 the working of two social security schemes 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.880 the indra gandhi national old age pension and indra gandhi national widow 00:10:28.880 --> 00:10:32.000 pension scheme i'll discuss more about these schemes 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:36.720 what exactly they are as we proceed um 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.839 so now uh when we conducted this study the good part is it's reaching to the 00:10:41.839 --> 00:10:44.880 intended but the bad news is of course it's 00:10:44.880 --> 00:10:48.240 irregular the transaction cost is very high there 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:52.240 is ambiguity in the whole procedure to apply if you 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.880 apply there's no clarity when you will get 00:10:54.880 --> 00:10:58.839 when it will get sanctioned so all those things are there 00:10:58.839 --> 00:11:03.600 um now first i'll discuss the positive findings of this how do we know that 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.800 people who are getting these pensions are actually poor 00:11:06.800 --> 00:11:10.560 how do we know this because if you look at not everyone who 00:11:10.560 --> 00:11:14.959 is below the poverty line is poor and not everyone who is above the poverty 00:11:14.959 --> 00:11:19.040 line is not poor in developing countries if you see 00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:23.440 especially in india the way the below poverty line is defined as all 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:28.480 is on the basis of calorie intake but what happens is actually when you 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:32.240 look at uh the whole procedure of selecting 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:36.000 people for um below poverty line is like okay 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:39.839 government comes up with saying oh this is the money we have this is the 00:11:39.839 --> 00:11:42.880 budget we have let's see how many people we accommodate 00:11:42.880 --> 00:11:46.240 a government school teacher would go to your place in summers and every five 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:48.720 months to find out whether you have luxury 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.959 goods like electricity or motorbike and stuff like that at home 00:11:52.959 --> 00:11:56.399 and that decides basically you fall in that category or not 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:03.600 um but it involves a lot of corruption um so not everyone who's poor it will be 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:06.800 in this thing so to find out whether these 00:12:06.800 --> 00:12:10.320 people are poor or not we kind of ask them 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:15.040 questions and uh the data is like this that uh 00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:20.399 the 81 people we interviewed out of which 71 percent were women 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.720 86 percent were illiterate 58 percent were 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:29.200 widowed 94 percent belong to the schedule tribes 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:36.800 um all of them lived in mud mud houses 47 of them um had no electricity in 00:12:36.800 --> 00:12:40.639 their house 90 19 percent had a mobile phone one 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:44.480 person had piped water none of them had fan television 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:49.920 motorcycle luxury not pressure cooker 72 percent were self-employed on their 00:12:49.920 --> 00:12:54.160 own agriculture land with the majority owning land of around one acre or less 00:12:54.160 --> 00:12:57.920 so essentially what they were doing is subsistence agriculture 00:12:57.920 --> 00:13:03.200 um the general profile of the respondent is one of the subsistent tribal farmers 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:06.959 living and working in difficult circumstances 00:13:06.959 --> 00:13:13.200 so the second thing that we found out uh was this that they were actually 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.240 getting exact amount that they were entitled to 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:21.760 which is a a big big positive thing in india because all 00:13:21.760 --> 00:13:24.880 the other schemes that we were monitoring which were employment schemes 00:13:24.880 --> 00:13:29.120 or food programs etc none of them actually were getting exact 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:32.880 amount if you're entitled to get two dollars you might get like one 00:13:32.880 --> 00:13:37.519 dollar 50 cents or something like that so 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:40.639 getting the exact amount was a very good thing 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:45.120 a very positive thing almost all 98 percent were in possession of the bank 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:49.440 pass book and were aware of this amount 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:53.360 a large 86 percent of the respondent also reported that they 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:56.800 went themselves to collect the pensions from the bank 00:13:56.800 --> 00:14:02.399 further 59 said that the attitude of the bank official was helpful 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:08.399 um so um what is happening currently in india that government is trying to 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:13.920 convert most of the food programs into cash like instead of getting food grains 00:14:13.920 --> 00:14:18.399 you're supposed to get get cash now if the banks are not in 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:24.160 your reach and the bank officials are not somewhere who are not like who's 00:14:24.160 --> 00:14:28.399 whose behavior is not good towards you then how do you approach them 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:32.800 so it's very crucial in these things that the bank should be enough 00:14:32.800 --> 00:14:38.639 uh sensitive towards people uh third positive thing that we found was 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:43.199 75 percent of reported 75 percent reported that the pension amount is 00:14:43.199 --> 00:14:47.279 shared with the family now it's it's it becomes very important 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:50.639 in context of india that when you say you share it with your 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.480 family that means it gives you a bargaining power in the family 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.240 like imagine you staying with your brother um with your like son 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:02.160 and you have three for grandchildren and if you can buy the small 00:15:02.160 --> 00:15:05.440 things for yourself that gives you that bargaining power you're not 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.360 entirely dependent on your son or daughter for that so that most of the 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:13.519 people 82 percent of them said that this gives us bargaining power in the 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:17.680 family um now what are the causes of concern 00:15:17.680 --> 00:15:21.440 because this is like the positive things which says okay 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.399 this is doing well but what are the causes of 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:28.720 concerns and i feel the causes of concerns are not big enough because 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:33.839 they just need a little political will a little more work from 00:15:33.839 --> 00:15:37.440 administration to kind of fix these things 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.680 now the causes of concerns are i'll start with 00:15:41.680 --> 00:15:47.440 um how this firstly this amount is very little very little and there should 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:51.040 be an increase in that which government of india can actually do it's 00:15:51.040 --> 00:15:55.839 not difficult for them and it is it just like 00:15:55.839 --> 00:16:01.040 instead of um like like the way we get salary every month like 00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:04.880 suppose i'm supposed to get my salary 15 and 30th of every month 00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:08.079 i get it once in say three months or four 00:16:08.079 --> 00:16:11.120 months and i don't know when is it coming 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:17.680 so the unpredictability is a big concern so i remember meeting a couple 00:16:17.680 --> 00:16:23.920 ram mahatma they had no land they lived in belahati village of the la 00:16:23.920 --> 00:16:28.160 villa panchayat they could barely walk let 00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:32.880 alone walk on anybody's field they did not have children uh who could 00:16:32.880 --> 00:16:35.759 support them this sepsis mainly on ram mahatma's 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:40.639 meager pension of rupees 400 um that's dollar six imagine like you 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.759 meet a couple and they are both old only one person is 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.639 getting a pension and both of them they depend on that 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:50.959 pension amount because they have no one to support them 00:16:50.959 --> 00:16:55.920 with this they managed to buy some rice potatoes oil and soap 00:16:55.920 --> 00:17:00.399 the old man asked us anxiously will the pension amount we receive 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:05.199 increase as a result of the study we can barely manage with this amount 00:17:05.199 --> 00:17:08.480 it is very low we cannot buy even medicines 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:14.480 from this money so i mean you cannot buy except buying rice 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:17.520 to eat you can't even think of buying medicines 00:17:17.520 --> 00:17:23.199 or anything else majority of the respondents 72 percent said there was no 00:17:23.199 --> 00:17:28.799 specific pattern in the timing of these payments 13 percent were unclear as to 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:32.160 when their pensions were deposited into their account 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:38.640 so what happens is generally um how it works is these tribals have 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.240 something called community meetings that they um 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:46.160 have it like every thursday morning 6 a.m 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.440 which is like where everyone in the village has to come together and discuss 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.559 whatever issues they have and it's a mandatory thing if you don't 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.360 do go through they kind of punish you and there's like some amount that you 00:17:55.360 --> 00:17:57.919 have to give for community development for that 00:17:57.919 --> 00:18:01.280 so if one person out of them goes to the bank and checks oh 00:18:01.280 --> 00:18:04.480 there's some money that has come that will tell to the rest of the people 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:08.160 in the village and that's how they will know and that's how the news will go to 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.880 other villages and that's how they'll gather together and go 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:14.559 and take their wages uh take their pensions out of the bank 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:18.400 so that's how it was working so they they generally went once in three four 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.640 months because the amount was too meager and b not 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:25.440 necessarily you spend so much of money and time to go and 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:30.559 to get it and you you then find that oh it's not there in your bank account only 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:34.480 so to actually find out um when does it comes like 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:38.080 what is the pattern of the pen amount being deposited 00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:41.600 uh we kind of filed um 00:18:41.679 --> 00:18:45.440 application with the government office over there which is known as right to 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:50.799 food a right to information act in india which says that your you can you you 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:53.679 have access to all the public information 00:18:53.679 --> 00:19:00.160 so generally in india if you on like it's the way it works is the minute you 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:03.039 file a rti you would that's a right to 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.000 information application either you have a phone call 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.600 coming which will be like a call saying oh this will happen to you 00:19:09.600 --> 00:19:13.919 please withdraw your application or you would never get ever uh answers 00:19:13.919 --> 00:19:16.400 and this area particularly where the study was 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:19.760 conducted it is very very difficult to even get 00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:25.280 a basic like information about the fact that when is the money deposited in your 00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:33.520 bank account so uh what we got was um 00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:38.400 that what we got from there was when we submitted this to the block office 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:41.919 they clarified us that the administration has had transferred 00:19:41.919 --> 00:19:44.960 pensions pension money to the bank regularly 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.160 every month however there is no record of any fixed data of 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.520 this month transfer the circle officer added that any 00:19:51.520 --> 00:19:54.480 further delay in transferring money to individual pensioners 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.320 would be the responsibility of the bank the bank refused to provide any 00:19:58.320 --> 00:20:02.320 information on it it was like we first went to the 00:20:02.320 --> 00:20:05.919 government office they said we do it we just send it to the bank you ask the 00:20:05.919 --> 00:20:09.600 bank people we just send like the whole amount to the bank together for like 00:20:09.600 --> 00:20:13.360 six months we went to the bank and asked them and bank refused to us 00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:16.799 now this is the state of affairs like this was with we 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.919 like i was working with like whole right to food campaign which had so many 00:20:19.919 --> 00:20:24.559 activists and academicians involved um and we were like educated enough we 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:28.480 knew our rights but what about the people who do 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:32.080 not know their rights if they want to ask how do they ask 00:20:32.080 --> 00:20:35.760 so that's the question uh high transaction 00:20:35.760 --> 00:20:43.520 cost was another concern um sita devi 00:20:43.520 --> 00:20:47.520 whom we met in one of the villages 70 years old has three sons and one 00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:50.720 daughter her son have migrated in search of work 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:55.360 and her daughter is married she lives alone and has not gone to 00:20:55.360 --> 00:20:57.840 collect her pensions for the past seven months 00:20:57.840 --> 00:21:03.840 as she had not been able to save enough money to pay for the transport cost 00:21:03.840 --> 00:21:07.760 she complained that the bank is always overcrowded the last time she went to 00:21:07.760 --> 00:21:10.320 the bank she was unable to withdraw money for 00:21:10.320 --> 00:21:14.720 for this reason and had to return empty-handed so she didn't go for seven 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:16.880 months because she didn't have enough money to 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:21.360 go um so what's interesting is um we asked 00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:23.679 people how much do they travel to go to the 00:21:23.679 --> 00:21:28.880 bank and how much time they spend so what we got was this um 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:36.240 the average distance to to what they traveled was 22.5 kilometers 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:43.039 to reach a bank and that was one way uh average time taken by them was 10.7 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:47.039 hours round trip to go to the bank and dollar 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:51.600 one for the round trip um even then sixty 00:21:51.600 --> 00:21:55.280 percent of this pensioners reported that they had to 00:21:55.280 --> 00:21:58.240 come back empty-handed and make more than one trip 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:03.679 to collect their pensions so yeah so this was the thing i mean 00:22:03.679 --> 00:22:08.320 this was the condition and now we want to convert like there's 00:22:08.320 --> 00:22:11.600 a lot of pressure from the world bank at the moment to 00:22:11.600 --> 00:22:15.679 convert other food programs also into like the 00:22:15.679 --> 00:22:20.480 cash like instead of food you get cash so this is the state of affairs and this 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:25.760 is uh um yeah i mean um 00:22:25.760 --> 00:22:30.960 now i'll talk about ex the problem of exclusion how people get 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.520 excluded and what are the reasons like how 00:22:33.520 --> 00:22:37.280 why does this exclusion takes place 00:22:38.840 --> 00:22:42.720 um the most serious issue is the large 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.880 numbers of widows and elderly person being excluded from the pension scheme 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:51.039 there are two possible forms of exclusion the person may not be 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:54.240 on the bpl list that is the below poverty line list 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:57.679 which is a official exclusion or he or may 00:22:57.679 --> 00:23:00.960 may be deprived of pension in spite of being 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:06.799 on bpl list which is arbitrary exclusion so what happens is every time there are 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:10.720 elections in this particular state it never had uh stable governments 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:14.559 every time a government comes and there's a new below poverty line 00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:17.280 list so there are like five below poverty line list 00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:20.720 and they're like different different names so how do you know who is in the 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:24.159 list now this is again a important reason for 00:23:24.159 --> 00:23:28.480 concern because um if if if you go and say oh i 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.840 am below poverty landless and i meet the age criteria i should get 00:23:31.840 --> 00:23:34.799 pension they will the government official will tell you no 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:40.240 your name is not there so how do you do so that opens more more 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:43.279 like spaces for corruption so you kind of 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:46.159 have to bribe them because your name would be if 00:23:46.159 --> 00:23:49.679 it's not in this list that would be another list or he can only tell you 00:23:49.679 --> 00:23:54.880 which list your name is so that way so that 00:23:55.760 --> 00:24:05.840 um so 00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:14.400 so again if you are in the bp list again if your name is confirmed uh not 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:19.600 necessarily you'll get this pension because the pension itself the scheme 00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:23.760 itself comes with its own like criteria who should get it on who 00:24:23.760 --> 00:24:31.520 who should not so we um kind of to find out that 00:24:31.520 --> 00:24:37.120 we again further like um question people about that that how did you get 00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:39.919 your pension sentient because people who got that how 00:24:39.919 --> 00:24:45.520 did you get it um so i remember one of the women 00:24:45.520 --> 00:24:51.279 um asked me during this that not like um this study that i've applied so 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.000 many times for this pension and i never get it 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:57.600 and this actually went to and that's that was the reason why we further went 00:24:57.600 --> 00:25:01.120 and um kind of we wanted to explore why so 00:25:01.120 --> 00:25:04.799 these repeated questions spoke volumes about the confusion surrounding the 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:08.320 application process of the old age and widow pension 00:25:08.320 --> 00:25:12.240 scheme there is a confusion um about the two 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:17.600 main eligibility criteria bpl and age confusion on the later creates further 00:25:17.600 --> 00:25:20.559 confusion about the appropriate type of pension 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:24.640 or required transfer from one pension to another pension 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:30.080 so if you are for days and above and you're single and you have 00:25:30.080 --> 00:25:33.840 a bpl card you get this pension but if you don't 00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:38.559 know your age how do you prove your age how do you say how old you are no one 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:42.720 knows how old you are and from 40 if you become like so this 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:48.720 is for the single women pension but if you are um if you want to be 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.840 counted under the elderly pension and there has to be increase 00:25:51.840 --> 00:25:57.039 like once you move uh from if you're above 88 years of age 00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:01.679 from the pension that you're getting six dollars it increases to ten dollars 00:26:01.679 --> 00:26:05.840 so how do you how it is how does it takes place so no one knows your age 00:26:05.840 --> 00:26:10.159 so how do you get transferred from that 40 to 80 from 80 00:26:10.159 --> 00:26:15.039 and then 18 above so no one knows that and that's that's quite ambiguous 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:20.080 um how the government work like the administration works no one knows 00:26:20.080 --> 00:26:24.240 uh with respect to the bpl status as an eligibility criteria 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.279 there are three bpl list in the use in jharkhand 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:30.320 lack of initiative on behalf of the administration to 00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:33.840 clarify this among pensioners has not helped at all 00:26:33.840 --> 00:26:38.960 several said that the that being a bpl household was not required 00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.880 to apply for pensions 00:26:43.120 --> 00:26:47.120 none of the respondents knew the correct age this means that 00:26:47.120 --> 00:26:53.279 when they turn 80 and the pension entitlement increases from 400 to 700 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:57.039 that transition may be delayed this confusion leaves 00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:01.679 room for bank officials or middlemen to siphon off the additional rupees 00:27:01.679 --> 00:27:06.480 additional money without the knowledge of the pensioners 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:10.080 although the age of the on the water id is followed 00:27:10.080 --> 00:27:13.200 lack of clarity about one's own age led to 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:18.559 people getting wrongly included and excluded 00:27:18.840 --> 00:27:24.320 um we came across many instances where the actual age based on physical 00:27:24.320 --> 00:27:28.960 appearance was clearly not reflected in the voter id cards for instance 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:33.919 etwa munda in the jiki village was very old and could barely walk but his voter 00:27:33.919 --> 00:27:37.360 id said it he was 55 and he was not 00:27:37.360 --> 00:27:44.399 included in the pensioners list even after making repeated attempts 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:50.080 so there are other types of exclusions that also i can talk about at the moment 00:27:50.080 --> 00:27:52.720 but because the time is less i would uh 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.000 further go ahead and discuss other things that we found in the study but 00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:01.200 there are various types of um exclusions that take various reasons 00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.000 to lead to you the exclusion that why you are not being 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:08.799 part of that why you cannot like have this pension 00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:13.760 again another problem was the lack of clarity in the procedure 00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:20.240 so um uh if i apply today say 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:23.840 what is the procedure to apply like for ins in instance i'm applying for my 00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:25.919 admission in school i know these are things 00:28:25.919 --> 00:28:29.600 that are required now there is no no way that 00:28:29.600 --> 00:28:33.840 you can know what exactly what exact things you want you can only go to the 00:28:33.840 --> 00:28:36.640 government official make him said and ask that person 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.399 oh how do i apply there is no fixed time to apply 00:28:40.399 --> 00:28:44.640 there is no fixed time when it gets sanctioned there there's no fixed time 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:50.480 to know like there's no mechanism of knowing that whether you 00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:54.799 got it or not so these were the other problems 00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:58.720 that we faced and then um 00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:05.120 what i think is more important about this whole study was what we realized is 00:29:05.120 --> 00:29:11.200 generally there has been a lot of um like because we found we found that 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:14.880 there was a high awareness of entitlements like how much amount that 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:19.440 people should get and about the bank passbooks and how the 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:22.240 procedure of getting the money from the bank works 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:26.799 and that was a prime reason of this scheme working really properly in these 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:29.679 areas because when you go collectively in the 00:29:29.679 --> 00:29:33.919 bank to take out your money you know your entitlements you know your 00:29:33.919 --> 00:29:37.919 right and you can assert yourself and say oh this is the amount i want 00:29:37.919 --> 00:29:41.840 so generally these people used to go in groups and ask the bank official for the 00:29:41.840 --> 00:29:45.120 money so this leaves no space for money 00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:47.440 getting money being you know siphoned off by 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:52.000 someone else and um it's basically you can just see 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.720 it in the context of a bottom-up approach 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:58.559 where people are when they're aware of their entitlements 00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:02.480 they can go and assert their rights and they can get it and that leads to 00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:06.399 better implementation of these schemes in this area 00:30:06.399 --> 00:30:11.120 now the it was a very positive experience to conduct the study 00:30:11.120 --> 00:30:14.880 and uh to find out that if this scheme is working there could be other schemes 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:17.360 in that area also that can work properly if 00:30:17.360 --> 00:30:20.720 a little government uh if government is interested and 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:24.000 if there is little political will involved another 00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:27.200 at the same time because people were aware of this thing 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:31.520 so irrespective of the fact irrespective of whatever problems they were facing 00:30:31.520 --> 00:30:34.640 but because they were aware of their entitlements no matter what who 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:38.159 whosoever government it was they still knew that this is what we 00:30:38.159 --> 00:30:41.120 were supposed to get and they could ask for it 00:30:41.120 --> 00:30:46.240 so yeah okay 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.600 um 00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:59.519 um so we have another 10 or 15 minutes if anyone has any questions and we can 00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:04.399 make this more of a discussion as well yeah and yeah oh do you want to talk 00:31:04.399 --> 00:31:08.720 about the photos first no we can take questions 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:15.519 oh sorry yeah um go ahead oh sorry thank you very 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:20.000 much interesting to me i have a um sort of a public and nutrition 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.720 background and so so the delivery services stuff is something that i i 00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:29.120 take interested and one thing that struck me um earlier 00:31:29.120 --> 00:31:32.640 talk um was that this this pension program 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:36.159 although you highlighted a lot of sort of challenges to it 00:31:36.159 --> 00:31:40.799 um was at least more successful in comparison to other programs by 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:44.000 that people got more money especially in comparison to other 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.679 the food all the food programs other employment schemes 00:31:47.679 --> 00:31:51.120 um is that simply because they're they're the recipients 00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:55.519 were more educated on how much they are or what other reasons 00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:59.120 are there or this being slightly more successful 00:31:59.120 --> 00:32:02.559 at getting them delivering the money to the population 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:06.240 um there are two reasons a of course the awareness was high about the 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.200 entitlements and b because it did not involve too 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:12.080 many bureaucratic you know levels it was straight away 00:32:12.080 --> 00:32:15.840 coming from the center to the state and state was transferring 00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:22.320 uh via the uh block officer to the bank so it was just straight away transfer 00:32:22.320 --> 00:32:24.720 and so why why would you say that the population 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:30.080 was more aware of this than other uh 00:32:30.080 --> 00:32:33.760 because there were more pensioners and also because it was working 00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:37.440 um they gave us a very uh simple thing like you 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.720 have a card and this is the money that you're supposed to get so it was a very 00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:43.840 simple thing to get like 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:47.919 because other things involve like for instance um 00:32:47.919 --> 00:32:51.120 if you look at the employment schemes that you have in india 00:32:51.120 --> 00:32:57.519 so you are entitled to work say 100 days upon skilled work in rural areas now you 00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:00.640 go and do some work there would be official 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:05.039 who would be monitoring you and that would say okay you are supposed 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:08.640 to dig so much of land but i think the and 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:10.720 he might not measure properly measured 00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:15.200 properly i mean it depends on the officer and then he'll mark you and so 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:19.120 okay he's done this much of work and that work would go that the amount 00:33:19.120 --> 00:33:23.440 of work that you have done that particular firm would be deposited 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:26.960 in the uh the block office in the block office 00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:31.279 would further send it to the district office for like 00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:35.039 money and then this is this goes to the bank so when is the money going all that 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:38.399 so it's very ambiguous the rest of the things are quite ambiguous so yeah 00:33:38.399 --> 00:33:42.159 maybe clarity and simplicity 00:33:43.840 --> 00:33:47.039 could you talk a little more about the move 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:50.640 from the right to food and like food and fuel 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:57.519 distribution to the money to the cash distribution uh 00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:01.840 i understand so it's i guess it's more uh 00:34:01.840 --> 00:34:05.120 when it has cash there's more corruption possibilities 00:34:05.120 --> 00:34:08.960 i'm assuming but what i mean 00:34:09.520 --> 00:34:15.839 for food and cash so um since i mentioned before i started this 00:34:15.839 --> 00:34:19.359 presentation that the mall nourishment that's among 00:34:19.359 --> 00:34:22.960 children are more than what we see in sub-saharan african 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:28.000 countries in that context it becomes very important that you get food grains 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:32.800 because imagine you are not being paid 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:37.599 money like if you don't get money you cannot buy food grains in that case 00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:43.839 also um another problem when we talk to women because women and children 00:34:43.839 --> 00:34:46.879 are the people who will get affected whether you want food or cash 00:34:46.879 --> 00:34:50.879 they said food because they said if we have cash the higher chances 00:34:50.879 --> 00:34:54.960 that we spend it on other things like you know other important things 00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:58.800 but if we have food grains in the house that at least assures that we get like a 00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.240 meal in a day they're entitled to get some 35 like the 00:35:02.240 --> 00:35:05.200 if you're a family which falls into below poverty line you're entitled to 00:35:05.200 --> 00:35:09.440 get 35 kgs of rice so first thing was this second thing was 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:12.800 this that um of course you can spend money on other 00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.680 things then india's societal structure is like that 00:35:15.680 --> 00:35:19.920 that it's generally men who goes to the bank not the women so if i if my husband 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:22.079 goes to the bank and takes out the money that 00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:27.119 high chances that he will end up you know spending that money in like 00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:30.320 alcohol and other things which is a very common thing that happens 00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:33.760 then at least this amount of food is ensuring that 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:37.920 i get some food grains in my house so yeah 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:41.280 i know another problem with cash is this that the cash is not 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:45.359 linked the cash that government is trying to you know again and again 00:35:45.359 --> 00:35:49.520 like because they want to change it from food to cash so again and again the 00:35:49.520 --> 00:35:54.000 idea of supporting this is like um they are they they are doing this 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.640 because they're saying like say for instance pension is doing well 00:35:56.640 --> 00:35:59.760 so the money for like this thing can also do well but 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:03.920 if this is not linked to the inflation that is happening how do you do that 00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:07.680 and again thing is because these are so remote places there are no 00:36:07.680 --> 00:36:12.320 um shops like to buy food what the government is talking about i don't know 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.920 which world they stay in but for kilometers and kilometers you do not 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:19.520 find any food grain shop very easily most of the food grains that 00:36:19.520 --> 00:36:23.200 is used by these people is the food grains that they grow in their 00:36:23.200 --> 00:36:29.119 own small land they have that's kind of related to a question i 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:34.640 had um other kind of uh strategies for livelihood subsistence you mentioned a 00:36:34.640 --> 00:36:39.680 good portion of them have guard land um are there other kind of 00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:43.760 strategies for subsistence and are are any of those 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:49.520 uh other you know land is that is that threatened in any way 00:36:49.520 --> 00:36:53.520 by whatever interest that might have for that land 00:36:53.520 --> 00:36:56.800 yeah so the first part of the question is 00:36:56.800 --> 00:37:00.160 the subsistence practices they have apart from 00:37:00.160 --> 00:37:05.760 food grains food that they grow they grow once in a year that's paddy 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.440 and they generally rare kettles at home 00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:14.079 so that they use both for food and ceremonies and rituals whatever they 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:16.720 have and then they have something called 00:37:16.720 --> 00:37:19.520 forex forest collect that they do there's like 00:37:19.520 --> 00:37:23.359 they can go to the forest and like collect some forest produce which are 00:37:23.359 --> 00:37:26.960 like woods for making food or 00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:33.200 maybe stuff like um like um like there are what we call as 00:37:33.200 --> 00:37:36.000 tobacco leaves in india teen dupatta where you get 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:40.800 it like and they roll like cigarettes out of it and there are other fruits 00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:44.240 medicines that they grow that they have in the forest 00:37:44.240 --> 00:37:48.079 so all of that so that's the subsistence thing and the second part of the 00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:51.920 question about the land there's like of course there's so many 00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:56.720 development projects like the big dams or the mining agencies 00:37:56.720 --> 00:38:00.079 or any big project that comes in and there are chances that you lose your 00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.880 land and the millions of people who are 00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:06.880 present in india it's between around 2.5 to 3 millions of 00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:10.320 people who have been displaced because of these things so they've lost their 00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:15.440 lands and livelihood because land is the way they earn their 00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:20.960 food so yeah i just wanted to discuss about these 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:25.040 photographs a little because these photographs are about uh that i 00:38:25.040 --> 00:38:27.200 took these are about the various food 00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:29.760 programs that they are i mean that we have in 00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:33.839 india so um 00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:40.079 yeah so this picture of us is of a student who is going 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:44.240 to what we call in india's icd center integrated 00:38:44.240 --> 00:38:47.920 child development scheme which which center is almost in every 00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:51.839 village which assures not just the food but also they educate 00:38:51.839 --> 00:38:55.280 these small kids who are below one to six years who are between one to six 00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:58.880 years and they provide nutritional support to lactating mothers 00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:02.480 and pregnant mothers and educate them about it so what's 00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:07.200 interesting is to see that these these are like like free we call it 00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:10.000 pre-nursery school in india i don't know what you call 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.400 so so what's interesting is it's a very common thing not to have books but to 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:19.280 have that plate in your bag like you know but she's happy 00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:23.440 she'll get at least one meal a day this is again a 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:29.440 picture of our icd center where students are sitting and eating food 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:33.359 and this is and and and this is this thing has actually 00:39:33.359 --> 00:39:37.359 very has been very helpful in terms of cast in india because in india there is 00:39:37.359 --> 00:39:39.280 a thing that higher caste people and lower 00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:43.280 caste people don't sit together and eat but in schools they're made to sit 00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:46.560 together and eat but because irrespective of higher caste low cast 00:39:46.560 --> 00:39:50.320 you'll be poor so you're going to these public schools so you have to sit 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.520 together and eat and this is a very positive thing 00:39:53.520 --> 00:40:00.000 um currently we have a lot of um um a lot of activists in india civil 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.160 society is advocating of having eggs in the meals and this is 00:40:04.160 --> 00:40:06.880 like one of the schools we found that they were giving regular 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:12.319 like eggs once in a week so it's not in all the states but few states like tamil 00:40:12.319 --> 00:40:17.200 nadu and kerala which have higher human development index can are doing 00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:22.079 this um and now what's so exciting about this 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:26.000 is like every school in india has something like this written where you 00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:29.920 know which day what food you'll get so the students know what they what food 00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:32.400 they'll get so they go to the principal and 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:35.520 the school teacher if they don't get that food or they don't get food and 00:40:35.520 --> 00:40:39.599 like they're like we're supposed to get this food so this is mandatory this has 00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.640 to be in like every school and there's something that i found in every 00:40:42.640 --> 00:40:48.400 school which is very exciting um again this is how you 00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:51.200 distribute oil and food you're entitled to get some 00:40:51.200 --> 00:40:56.720 35 kgs of rice every month and some kerosene oil which is 00:40:56.720 --> 00:41:01.920 required for basic subsistence so this villager is just collecting his part of 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:07.040 oil um again because the public distribution 00:41:07.040 --> 00:41:10.079 system for food has a lot of corruption involved in 00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:15.599 india because uh what will happen is like the way money comes um but if you 00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:19.920 if you have like a truck of food coming so there are like chances and which um 00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.920 generally happens is like the food the food sacks basically gets 00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.520 stolen like what happens is the truck driver might sell it to someone 00:41:27.520 --> 00:41:31.040 or the storage people so all of that to stop all of this 00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:33.839 one of the state which was the neighboring state where i did this study 00:41:33.839 --> 00:41:36.560 again that was a marvelous hit mama's crit 00:41:36.560 --> 00:41:41.440 area and had almost nothing working over there but the food scheme worked because 00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:46.960 the state government at that point kind of made a lot of changes in this 00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:50.560 food scheme they bought brought this cooperative societies 00:41:50.560 --> 00:41:54.480 wherein people of the village or the women formed this cooperative stores to 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:58.640 store the food to reduce the the 00:41:58.640 --> 00:42:03.359 you know stealing or setting up this food grain 00:42:03.359 --> 00:42:07.040 so this was one of the very positive things and this has been like 00:42:07.040 --> 00:42:12.160 became a role model in india which other states are also trying to do 00:42:13.359 --> 00:42:17.200 and this is a school in india where um they're like 00:42:17.200 --> 00:42:20.640 multiple classes going on together in like one classroom 00:42:20.640 --> 00:42:24.079 now the positive thing is now we have schools in every village 00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:28.000 at least we have school building at least we have the midday meal that i 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:30.800 earlier showed you the picture is running 00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:34.960 but the condition of education still remains very bad because 00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:38.880 it's like multiple class multiple classes sitting together for five 00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:43.680 classes and one teacher teaching you um yeah but then at least the 00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:48.240 infrastructure has come earlier 10 years back we did not even have that 00:42:48.240 --> 00:42:54.880 um this is a photograph of um employment scheme of the unskilled labor 00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:58.560 that where you entitled to get 100 days of work so these people are working over 00:42:58.560 --> 00:43:00.640 there they're supposed to work let's say eight 00:43:00.640 --> 00:43:05.680 hours uh and then um their provisions are first aid and 00:43:05.680 --> 00:43:10.160 drinking water and the shade to sit on the worksite 00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:15.280 which is a very positive thing uh and then but then not necessarily you 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:19.839 work also you get your wages it's like it's one of those schemes where 00:43:19.839 --> 00:43:24.319 government of india is like trying to it's not supporting it it's not very 00:43:24.319 --> 00:43:29.280 supportive about and maybe we can discuss why um there's a women 00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:33.359 who has a card which is quite happy about it 00:43:33.359 --> 00:43:38.079 and then this is making a card is like full of hassles you need a water id card 00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:40.480 you need like a bpl card for everything you need a 00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:43.920 public distribution card you need a pension card you need so many cards you 00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.040 need a health card so how do you make them everything 00:43:47.040 --> 00:43:53.200 involves a lot of corruption again the office bank offices are very 00:43:53.200 --> 00:43:56.800 far from the villages at least you travel around about 30 kilometers to 00:43:56.800 --> 00:44:01.280 reach them um this is a photograph of a small um 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:05.920 center which is there in almost every village where a doctor comes 00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:09.599 not a doctor a nurse basically or a little more trained 00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:15.599 person who will do your regular checkup when you're pregnant or lactating 00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:23.839 do you guys have any questions 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:33.760 no have there um been any 00:44:35.040 --> 00:44:39.359 any attempts to do sort of like mobile banking through cell phones or 00:44:39.359 --> 00:44:43.599 even like um using biometric data to keep track of all this i know there's 00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:46.079 some organizations pushing that in india can 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:48.800 you tell me about your experience or what you think would be effective 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:54.160 um so uh the two things mobile banking and all of 00:44:54.160 --> 00:44:57.040 these things cannot work properly because there is 00:44:57.040 --> 00:45:01.599 absolutely no network in those areas for mobile companies and electricity 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:06.720 to charge your phone and biometrics the government attempted but it did not 00:45:06.720 --> 00:45:10.800 but it failed because of a lack of infrastructure problems that you have 00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:13.760 because for biometrics to get implemented you need an infrastructure 00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:18.160 enough to enroll people into it and again the same problems came the 00:45:18.160 --> 00:45:20.960 bank offices are very far government offices 00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:24.560 you don't know you don't have enough administration to administer it and all 00:45:24.560 --> 00:45:26.880 of that 00:45:28.640 --> 00:45:32.960 and also it requires a good chunk of money so um 00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:38.240 i mean because we already have a bank system in place so the 00:45:38.240 --> 00:45:42.160 people who were debating about it said why not to 00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:45.440 why do you want to separate biometric system for this 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:49.200 you know why not to put things which you already have 00:45:49.200 --> 00:45:52.960 in place and then see what happens 00:45:53.839 --> 00:46:01.359 government connected or are they um are there lots of different uh 00:46:01.359 --> 00:46:06.079 earlier till before the liberalization in 90s we had 00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:09.839 fully controlled government banks now what we have are partly government and 00:46:09.839 --> 00:46:12.560 partly private the government still have 00:46:12.560 --> 00:46:15.920 certain things like they have to open remote areas and all 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:20.079 of this but currently what is happening is which is 00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:24.480 not in the international media scrutiny at all is like 50 percent 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:28.160 of india india is under insurgency in that the case you cannot 00:46:28.160 --> 00:46:31.839 force the government to open banks in those areas 00:46:31.839 --> 00:46:34.400 so yeah 00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:40.880 like you have the maoist movement going in the central bank and this little 00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:45.119 certain then northeast part of india has other conflicts going on 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:48.160 and then the jammu kashmir is the famous like 00:46:48.160 --> 00:46:51.760 infamous thing that we all know the pakistan 00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:56.480 india thing and then you have a lot of insurgents in that area also 00:46:56.480 --> 00:47:00.400 because they want to separate kashmir 00:47:08.839 --> 00:47:11.839 now 00:47:22.720 --> 00:47:24.800 you