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thank you so much for coming for the open access

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edition of the digital discussions speaker series and I'm super

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excited to introduce two of my friends and colleagues from

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the University of Michigan libraries. Um Emily Puckett Rogers

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is a special collection of special projects librarian for the

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operations research and learning and teaching units. And at

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some point Emily I'm gonna ask you to decode that

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, because is there a lot of units at the

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University of Michigan library? She received a. B

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. A. In anthropology from the University of Arkansas

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and an M. S. I. From the

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Masters of Science of Information from the University of Michigan

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Schools School of Information. In 2010, she assists

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the University of Machine Library decision makers with major initiatives

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and projects including assessment and evaluation of services and collections

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. Prior to this position, Emily served as the

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Open educational coordinator for the University of Michigan's Medical schools

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, open michigan initiative. And in this position she

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focused on building a community of scholarly and academic resource

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creation and sharing. Um She facilitated training, outreach

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and workshop activities to inform the academic community about open

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educational practices, tools, resources and legal considerations.

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Emily is currently serving on the open access committee for

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the University of Michigan library. Emily. Is it

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a larger committee? Is it for the University of

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Michigan larger is it the michigan libraries? Um Right

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now it's just librarian, but we want to possibly

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next year and open it up to faculty and students

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and staff members as well. Oh cool, thank

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you. And Sarah Barbara is also a special projects

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library in for. Um but she's for the library

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administration at the University of Michigan Library. She has

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a B. A. From Princeton University and ecology

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and evolutionary biology and a master's of Science and ecology

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and evolutionary biology from the University of Michigan as well

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as an M. S. I. From the

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School of Information at the University of Michigan Sarah support

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sardine and executive associate director of the library and the

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research project management and process improvement needs. And I'm

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really excited to introduce them both as a student at

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um we went to school together and both Sarah and

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Emily are extremely influential in my thinking about open access

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and scholarly practice. So thank you both so much

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for doing this for open educational, open access week

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. Sorry, I'm like merging my acronyms and so

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I have your slides and I'm gonna sit and turn

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it over to you guys. I think I have

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yourself a great thanks so much. Yeah, this

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is so exciting to sort of be here with you

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in this awesome room by the way. I am

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so jealous industry has faced like this, it's really

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, really neat. Uh Yeah so this is a

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bill that I think is a round table event,

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so feel free to interrupt us at anytime with questions

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. Um If I don't hear you for whatever reason

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, like wait while we have the camera and then

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you know I can say what? So we also

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have some question questions for you people throughout our presentation

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. Um So so yeah, but if we hear

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crickets when we post something we'll just move on.

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But if we start a discussion that's ready to um

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so next blood. Um I wanted to start off

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with a great introduction to some open access initiatives and

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programs company at the University of michigan library where Emily

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and I are and uh we have a wing of

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our library called Michigan publishing and they have a really

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long and wonderful history of publishing, open access journals

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and developing open access models. I really encourage you

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to check that out if you, I have heard

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heard them before. They have a couple of books

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series that are open access. They have a scholarly

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monograph series that's open access. And it's really quite

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cool some of the initiatives they're doing. Another thing

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is we sort of have a blanket creative commons license

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for all of our sort of web content on our

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website. Um Deep Blue is our institutional repository and

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that's fairly well used actually, we have a very

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long history of involvement with high trust. Um How

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do you trust is a large scale collaborative repository for

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digital content. Um And University of Michigan was a

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family member. Um and in collaboration with indiana University

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, we sort of administered the repository. So we

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have some of our library staff are heavily involved with

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high trust. Um Also the our administration, we're

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very lucky to have very supportive administrator. So our

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our previous team who just stepped down in august,

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he was uh, well pardon me, he was

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a provost at the University of michigan who was very

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instrumental in the google book scanning project. And also

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how do you trust and getting that started? Um

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Well, and as he was dean of our library

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, he was on the board of this digital public

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library of America, and also how do you trust

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our current dean James Hansen? Um We got on

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the board of Euro Space Internet too, and the

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Digital preservation Network. So okay, we've got really

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supportive administrators there, they've been very interested in opening

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up intellectual property and things like that. Um That's

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been very exciting explaining place to work in that ground

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. Um Also we wanted to mention chi this is

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sort of a university of michigan as a whole effort

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were major contributor. District high, which is an

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open source learning management. It's kind of like blackboard

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by open source um and it's used across the country

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, so like if you sort of the lay of

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the land at you and then with in terms of

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our open access initiatives and projects, um so if

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you go to the next blood, um now we

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get into sort of uh we are starting to meet

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at this time or veggie burger vegetarian. Um the

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sort of motivation, we wrote this white paper with

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this summer um and our boss, associate university librarian

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for research at our library, Elaine Westbrook's uh email

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. That's one day I was like, hey,

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I'm really interested in all metrics and thinking about how

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all that you're expecting with libraries. We have started

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to hear a little snippets of, I don't know

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if it's about all measures and libraries and she wanted

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us to sort of look into it for her to

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think strategically about how it fits in with our sort

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of whatever is going on with our research unit at

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the moment. Um So we looked into the landscape

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um and and wrote this paper and the link there

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as a link to the paper in our digital in

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our repository institutional repository. We're still looking into our

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sort of next steps of the library. We'll get

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into that a little bit later on presentation. Um

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But yeah, so this is so we wrote this

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white paper and now we're talking to you a little

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bit about it. Um So if you go to

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the next slide, um I just wanted to start

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off talking a little bit about what metrics he didn't

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mean. I think a lot of times people say

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it's all about how many times with my paper tweeted

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, right? Like who's heard that? Like I

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heard that looks like that's like the first thing that

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comes to mind. Um, but we wanted to

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really emphasize the definitions that are emerging around having an

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emphasis on the open, often social web, but

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really the open web um, sort of the aspects

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about measurement of scholarly impact and influence and measurement at

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the article or really artifact level. Right? Um

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, so those are some of the critical aspects to

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this definition that makes it more than just how many

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times was my paper tweeted? And I would mention

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that a lot of times you read uh, oh

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all countries, it was first defined in the tweet

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. And this is that tweet on the slide.

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This is that tweet that they're talking about. I

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don't actually know if that's true. Jason korean is

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a PhD student at the University of north Carolina Chapel

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Hill and he tweeted this and he's very involved in

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all metrics and researcher on all metrics. Um But

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one thing I like about this tweet is it really

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gets at that article level or artifact level and that's

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a big aspect of all. Net. Um So

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even next slide. So I guess a little guy

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in the next slide, I just wanted to step

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back once more before getting back in the all metrics

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. Looking at the um our University of michigan libraries

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investment in aspects that are sort of related to or

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tangential to or supportive of all metrics. But are

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we're not doing anything tools or service lives right now

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on all the others. But here are some sort

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of other things that are sort of related. Um

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Within the recent there's a wing called research Data services

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uh unit. Um, and they are very involved

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in public researchers, say developed data management plan or

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promote tools for faculty to use. Um, We

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have started to implement use of both orchid and data

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site, which are tools to create the identifiers for

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researchers and also data set. Um, we've had

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vendors come by people from big share plum analytics,

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which is an all metrics company, which we'll talk

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about more later um, to have conversations with them

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about this. We have a research guide that sort

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of mentioned all the tricks. So, so we're

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not, we don't have any specific electric services or

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tools that we're developing at the moment, but this

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was sort of the landscape as we were writing this

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. And uh, okay. So if you go

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to the next slide, um, I wanted to

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talk a little bit about the whole landscape and really

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I think a couple of things really enable all metrics

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to take off. The first is around scholarly communication

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in general and the changing ways of scholarly creation.

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So researchers are producing artifacts in their scholarly process,

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um, that are not just journal articles and books

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. They may be doing that too, but they're

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also producing, um, patents and uh, blog

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post, the defect source code, you know,

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the also figures grants and it's a range of artifacts

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are coming out of scholarly research and an electric stove

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. You can sort of measure impact on each of

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those. Right? And we can't, we couldn't

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, you know, you can't really do that before

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. I suppose you can, but it's sort of

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all ventures really can take into account any of those

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another thing that's happening feed. Right? So scholarship

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can be pretty quickly put on the open web,

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right? You can researchers, not at all,

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but a fair shot people are starting to, you

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know, discuss ideas on their blogs or share,

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you know, have conversations in these open arenas where

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you can track that and you can track the impact

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that's having also scale. Right? So one of

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these Jason Priem who was cited in the two sides

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ago about the tweet, um, he, he

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really argues journal impact factor is not the scale we

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should be looking at when we're talking about assessing impact

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of someone's research, right? You want to get

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down to that artifacts level. Um, and so

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all metrics really capitalizes on these three aspects of the

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open web and also the shipping stands of how scholarly

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communication happening these days. Um, I want to

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plant the seed of a discussion question or a question

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for you all and then I'm not going to have

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you answer this yet then a phenomenal talking about concerns

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and then we'll get the answers. But I wanted

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to ask, um, for you to think about

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is what have I missed from this List of concerns

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and almost two. Um, and so what kind

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of discussions and conversations using libraries need to be called

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in? Um, what kind of questions do we

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need to be racing in these conversations? So getting

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back to what the concerns that we have listed.

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We see to sort of big issues that we think

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batteries need to be in the room when those conversations

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are having first of all, um, there is

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an issue of standardization. So in what cases might

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a download from an institutional repository mean the same thing

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or more or less impact wise than a view of

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the presentation on slide share. Right. So you

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have a presentation you put in your eye, are

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you put it on the slide share? Like how

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are those equating or does it tweet ever mean the

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same or or more than say a a traditional playstation

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. And you know, the answer is it's probably

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different by discipline. It's probably different by researcher by

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maybe research topic open maybe over time. Um this

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summer ability was a very exciting separations of all metrics

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. Um, There was an organization that national um

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information standards organization. Nice. So um put out

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, announced a study we're gonna study proposed to develop

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community based standards or recommended practices in the field of

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alternative metrics. So they're really paying attention to the

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energy issue. Um So that's one concern that we

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think libraries that's going to be in the room in

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those conversations. Another thing is something that's always been

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true when you think about Beverly metrics or anything around

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citation um metric values. So all measured values.

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Traditional metric values, they don't necessarily impact doesn't necessarily

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equate quality. Right? You think about a retract

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paper that make it a lot of maybe a lot

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of conversation about that, right? And so you

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might get a lot of high numbers in your metric

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, whatever you're measuring. But that doesn't necessarily need

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that that artifact is of high quality research lies or

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scholarship wise. So that's just something to be aware

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of. So now I want to return to that

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question and I just wonder, you know, if

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you have any other sorts of ideas about conversations in

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this arena where we as libraries need to be in

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the room or we as universities need to be in

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the room and informing that discussion. Yes, I

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have two questions that came up for me. Um

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11 is first is do you think there is a

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way to measure quality? Because before we even think

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about doing so you have to think media about possible

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that's in the first place because everything has been called

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about quantity. But do you really think there is

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a measure quality? Take that into? Yeah.

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Um So I heard your question is it summarizing it

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isn't really any way to measure quality wasn't right?

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Yeah. I'm not trying to see that there isn't

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but just getting clear on that question for you.

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Sure. Yeah. And I think that's a really

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good question. I mean libraries historically are sort of

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you go there for trusted information, right? Or

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you go there because there's been some level of selection

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right? Of the resources that are in the library

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. But I don't know. I I think that

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you know, Oh wait, oh no, I'm

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hearing my own so I hope that was saying.

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But I think aspects of peer review in an ideal

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world have that measures have that element of assessment of

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quality. Um but I don't know if we have

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any one, a perfect way to do that right

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now. What are people in the room thing?

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Yeah, I'm sorry, my computer went to sleep

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and so the slides will be back up in just

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a minute. Um Actually, Sarah, I think

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that's a really great point. And you made a

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great point to about measuring quality. And it's sort

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of prompted me to remember that one of the concerns

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that I tend to have about libraries and all metrics

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is is there? And this is a question I'm

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not sure how to answer. Is there an impetus

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or incentive for the library to help scholars better articulate

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the value and influence of their own work through both

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traditional metrics as well as alternative metrics. And I

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think that the library is in a position that can

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help lend a bit more value to the question of

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all metrics? Uh Yeah. All right. So

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one thing today, so we actually had a blank

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bushman from plum analytics come talk to us as our

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closing keynote speech for open access speak today. And

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one of two of the things that he mentioned um

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in terms of new models of uh scholarly communication is

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not really dissemination. Are the concept of is the

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concept of portable peer review. So you mentioned rubric

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and periods for science. So those are new constructs

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where um pure view is happening in a space where

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you can you can take that experience with you so

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that um if you have an article that you want

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to publish, it doesn't get pure reviewed individually each

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time from scratch every time you want. It has

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to go to another publisher, another journal, for

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example. And he made the point. And I

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think we've also had this discussion on campus that um

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, also metrics or article level metrics are not necessarily

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replacing the standard values and the standard metrics, but

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there's something that's going to live alongside and augment the

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landscape of scholarly communication research, communication and dissemination.

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But one of the things that I'm going to talk

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about a little bit more. When we were looking

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into this um, work over the summer, we

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had some lightweight interviews with researchers and they're really thinking

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about Chunking out what 11 researcher called chunking out his

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research and packaging the research in different ways to different

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audiences. So those audiences are going to find a

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different value um, in the research. So a

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scholarly audience might find a different value in the research

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findings and say the public or say high school students

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or something like that. And the conversation around all

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metrics and article electrics are prompting some researchers to think

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about that aspect of their work and that specific interaction

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with different communities, some care, some of them

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. Um that's that's another point. And then I

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would just been um actually, if you want to

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move to the next slide, this this kind of

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gets at your uh question for them. Um I

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think I think a lot of people would say libraries

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are in a place where this can be the people

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for raising the profile of these kinds of measures um

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amongst the faculty. Um so Lewinsky people are in

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Korea, have a paper in college and research libraries

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where they say that, you know, librarians can

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provide support by informing these kind of emerging conversations right

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getting, getting in these spaces where we're talking about

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the issues that are coming up and um but also

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supporting experimentation with emerging tools. And particularly I'm going

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to give you an example of that in a slider

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too, but particularly around engaging with faculty and researchers

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on campus um to educate them about metrics whether we're

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talking traditional or all metrics um and providing that outreach

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to raise that profile. So so actually and I

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just have one, you know, just another special

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questions. Just it's actually just for my own interest

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, have any faculty come to you all asking you

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about all the tricks. So so we have a

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mix in the room of both faculty students and librarians

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. And I know that Yeah, I raised my

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question, librarians, Faculty member faculty. Have you

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thought about it all and students, have you thought

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about this for your own research or for following other

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people's research or assessing other people's research when you're writing

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a paper that they come across. Okay. But

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so one of the fascinating things for me, because

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part of my job titles for the digital humanities where

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a lot of this discussion is sort of um taken

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for granted that people are thinking about all metrics.

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And I have realized that that's only true in the

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library. At least my experience in talking with faculty

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right now, that the idea of alternative metrics or

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even not even at a metric level, but articulating

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the value of digital work, that conversation is being

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had, but it's not being paired with all metrics

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. So I find a really interesting disconnect. It

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could be useful in tenure promotion considerations, but you

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have to establish the value of before you can actually

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apply it, right. And that's what the concern

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is that I've been hearing from junior faculty saying I'm

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not sure I can make this case yet with this

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, but with tenured faculty it's a little different.

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Well, initially humanity has always been a promotion.

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Mhm. I'll speak as a faculty member. I

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think that it depends a lot on the field of

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scholarship also. So I'm in history where the whole

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idea of impact factor just does not, I'm not

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a big issue. The last time I checked the

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journal in history that had the highest impact character was

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literally, but I think there there's a slightly different

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issue and I'd be curious how the all metrics fits

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in, which is a lot of scholarly journals still

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are published by professional associations. And access to those

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journals requires either a library subscription or in many cases

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a personal membership. And so, you know,

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an article can't be tweeted, you can tweet the

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citation, but unless you have access to the library

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of our personal membership, you may only be able

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to get to the title or an abstract. And

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so I think that we had a good discussion yesterday

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, you know, about posting your own research and

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so on. But you know, if I were

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to go back for five years for the american american

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historical review, you know, I wouldn't have access

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to those articles except to the library. And so

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I couldn't repost them or retweet them. So I

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think that really needs to be to be factored into

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consideration in terms of what's the source of the of

412
00:23:53.490 --> 00:23:57.250 A:middle L:90%
the scholarly work and there how does that affect the

413
00:23:57.250 --> 00:24:03.289 A:middle L:90%
possibility of um being reposted or otherwise kind of circulated

414
00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:06.359 A:middle L:90%
in ways that the all the metrics are captured.

415
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:11.509 A:middle L:90%
I've had experience as a library with badly um contacted

416
00:24:11.509 --> 00:24:15.000 A:middle L:90%
me. He was in the International affairs and he

417
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:18.849 A:middle L:90%
was actually trying to get his battle in his college

418
00:24:18.849 --> 00:24:22.980 A:middle L:90%
, his school, um enthusiastic about all metrics because

419
00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:25.759 A:middle L:90%
he's an urban planning and urban affairs and he feels

420
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:26.630 A:middle L:90%
like so much of the work they do has an

421
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.849 A:middle L:90%
impact on the public, that it's important to hear

422
00:24:30.849 --> 00:24:33.599 A:middle L:90%
what they have to say to recognize their comments.

423
00:24:33.609 --> 00:24:37.079 A:middle L:90%
And he was he brought together people from the library

424
00:24:37.089 --> 00:24:41.680 A:middle L:90%
from the graduate school and taking lane, who is

425
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.160 A:middle L:90%
the one that's working on electronic faculty activity reports here

426
00:24:45.170 --> 00:24:48.359 A:middle L:90%
so we can think about how to incorporate those theirselves

427
00:24:51.740 --> 00:24:53.009 A:middle L:90%
. Yeah, I really like that example um,

428
00:24:53.019 --> 00:24:56.309 A:middle L:90%
of involving the public in the discussion and that's one

429
00:24:56.309 --> 00:25:00.589 A:middle L:90%
of the nice aspects it is tied into the previous

430
00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:03.859 A:middle L:90%
uh, point. You know, when you can

431
00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:06.380 A:middle L:90%
, when you can have these conversations out in the

432
00:25:06.390 --> 00:25:08.380 A:middle L:90%
open, you can really involve the public who don't

433
00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:14.299 A:middle L:90%
have individual memberships to these society publications or may not

434
00:25:14.299 --> 00:25:17.230 A:middle L:90%
have access actually to an academic library. Right.

435
00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.539 A:middle L:90%
A public library may not have access, it may

436
00:25:19.539 --> 00:25:22.539 A:middle L:90%
not subscribe to those kind of resources. So I

437
00:25:22.539 --> 00:25:26.410 A:middle L:90%
really like um that example that you just brought up

438
00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:29.599 A:middle L:90%
and yeah, I was you know, the serious

439
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:32.500 A:middle L:90%
on this point, I would I would say that

440
00:25:32.509 --> 00:25:36.430 A:middle L:90%
is difficult when things are closed, right? It

441
00:25:36.430 --> 00:25:38.710 A:middle L:90%
really limits the discussion that you can have. And

442
00:25:38.710 --> 00:25:44.349 A:middle L:90%
then that limits then with yeah, the measurement of

443
00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:47.859 A:middle L:90%
any discussion. I think. I think that's an

444
00:25:47.859 --> 00:25:51.890 A:middle L:90%
important point where I'm just going to talk a little

445
00:25:51.890 --> 00:25:53.849 A:middle L:90%
bit later too about this is an example of not

446
00:25:53.859 --> 00:25:56.829 A:middle L:90%
if open access is happening by how open access is

447
00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:02.529 A:middle L:90%
happening in scholarship. Um and what we're seeing with

448
00:26:02.529 --> 00:26:04.880 A:middle L:90%
all metrics are the ability for us to start engaging

449
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:08.799 A:middle L:90%
with open access and open access journals and open access

450
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:12.349 A:middle L:90%
dollar scholarship and principles. Um So the materials that

451
00:26:12.349 --> 00:26:15.609 A:middle L:90%
are accessible now, we're seeing the use of those

452
00:26:15.609 --> 00:26:17.759 A:middle L:90%
materials and I think that's gonna be interesting to see

453
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:23.119 A:middle L:90%
how um closed publish publishing companies um that are sort

454
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.849 A:middle L:90%
of experimenting with open access levels but not totally shifting

455
00:26:26.849 --> 00:26:30.730 A:middle L:90%
over to completely over. That's not all like wiling

456
00:26:30.740 --> 00:26:33.019 A:middle L:90%
um like l severe and things like that. How

457
00:26:33.019 --> 00:26:37.069 A:middle L:90%
they start thinking about all metrics when they start seeing

458
00:26:37.069 --> 00:26:38.740 A:middle L:90%
what you can do with open API. S.

459
00:26:38.740 --> 00:26:41.440 A:middle L:90%
And open systems where you actually can get at that

460
00:26:41.450 --> 00:26:45.509 A:middle L:90%
article level information. Some of them I know are

461
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:48.769 A:middle L:90%
opening up some of their our articles to be able

462
00:26:48.769 --> 00:26:51.369 A:middle L:90%
to be pulled into larger systems where you can start

463
00:26:51.369 --> 00:26:55.279 A:middle L:90%
to display this but not everything. So that's going

464
00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:56.269 A:middle L:90%
to be an interesting trends to watch in the future

465
00:26:56.269 --> 00:27:00.160 A:middle L:90%
I think. And there was a question or a

466
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.910 A:middle L:90%
comment. I can see you you're wearing blue accordingly

467
00:27:03.910 --> 00:27:11.420 A:middle L:90%
with I'm a graduate student and I must admit that

468
00:27:11.430 --> 00:27:15.460 A:middle L:90%
this is this uh access week is the first of

469
00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:19.289 A:middle L:90%
my remote anything including digital rights and then great about

470
00:27:19.299 --> 00:27:25.009 A:middle L:90%
open access and so I also want to see them

471
00:27:25.009 --> 00:27:30.349 A:middle L:90%
in a discipline that is just as close. I'm

472
00:27:30.349 --> 00:27:34.460 A:middle L:90%
in philosophy where there doesn't seem to be so much

473
00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:42.769 A:middle L:90%
uh huh Outside because society so sort of that's open

474
00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:49.559 A:middle L:90%
, more open exorcists and yeah, this is obviously

475
00:27:51.339 --> 00:27:56.119 A:middle L:90%
a tentative assumption but my impression is that my department

476
00:27:56.119 --> 00:28:00.720 A:middle L:90%
doesn't really no much think about all pressures and we

477
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:04.690 A:middle L:90%
have improvement attention to go. So it can also

478
00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:14.200 A:middle L:90%
be the nature culture and then this right here aware

479
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:25.579 A:middle L:90%
or willing to much too guards do you need do

480
00:28:25.579 --> 00:28:26.200 A:middle L:90%
you need me to repeat that a little bit?

481
00:28:26.210 --> 00:28:29.519 A:middle L:90%
Um So yeah, I think that actually your point

482
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.140 A:middle L:90%
brings up sort of similar to what tom was saying

483
00:28:32.150 --> 00:28:36.700 A:middle L:90%
that some disciplines have really oh been on the cutting

484
00:28:36.700 --> 00:28:40.569 A:middle L:90%
edge of all metrics in part because of government initiatives

485
00:28:40.579 --> 00:28:42.630 A:middle L:90%
. So like the National Science Foundation requires that some

486
00:28:42.630 --> 00:28:45.650 A:middle L:90%
data is made available. So by the nature of

487
00:28:45.650 --> 00:28:48.630 A:middle L:90%
having the funding you have to you have to you

488
00:28:48.630 --> 00:28:51.869 A:middle L:90%
know whether you want to or not but then other

489
00:28:51.869 --> 00:28:53.710 A:middle L:90%
disciplines and many of the humanity is not all,

490
00:28:53.710 --> 00:28:56.039 A:middle L:90%
but many of the humanities and social sciences tend to

491
00:28:56.039 --> 00:29:00.460 A:middle L:90%
be a little slower um to consider how their research

492
00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:03.410 A:middle L:90%
maps to one in online environment, how it maps

493
00:29:03.410 --> 00:29:07.059 A:middle L:90%
to an open environment and then how you begin to

494
00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:10.880 A:middle L:90%
assess it because it's a different kind of assessment in

495
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:11.980 A:middle L:90%
the humanities, So and your background, if I

496
00:29:11.980 --> 00:29:17.559 A:middle L:90%
remember is computer science and philosophy, Right. Parents

497
00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:22.849 A:middle L:90%
. Mhm. But my masters, Yeah. Mhm

498
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:27.859 A:middle L:90%
. That's very different. Oh, okay. So

499
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:33.009 A:middle L:90%
uh immediate in the interest of time, we move

500
00:29:33.009 --> 00:29:34.910 A:middle L:90%
on to the next slide. Right? So when

501
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:37.680 A:middle L:90%
when we were thinking about this, you know,

502
00:29:37.690 --> 00:29:41.700 A:middle L:90%
a few of them were not doing anything right now

503
00:29:41.710 --> 00:29:45.130 A:middle L:90%
with saying all metric company or are rolling or not

504
00:29:45.130 --> 00:29:47.490 A:middle L:90%
rolling out any services running right now, we're just

505
00:29:47.569 --> 00:29:48.549 A:middle L:90%
studying the lay of the land. So we wanted

506
00:29:48.549 --> 00:29:53.970 A:middle L:90%
to get um some stories from some someone who was

507
00:29:53.980 --> 00:29:57.539 A:middle L:90%
doing something so truly this there, so I happen

508
00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:00.849 A:middle L:90%
to be in Pittsburgh today, but because of the

509
00:30:00.849 --> 00:30:02.750 A:middle L:90%
same family, this does not have to do with

510
00:30:02.750 --> 00:30:04.650 A:middle L:90%
the fact that this is a micro case study about

511
00:30:04.650 --> 00:30:08.369 A:middle L:90%
the University of Pittsburgh, so they're totally separate.

512
00:30:08.380 --> 00:30:12.309 A:middle L:90%
Um But in any case um we heard through our

513
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:15.329 A:middle L:90%
A. U. L. For research that the

514
00:30:15.329 --> 00:30:18.359 A:middle L:90%
University of Pittsburgh was experimenting with plum analytics and all

515
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.960 A:middle L:90%
metrics company. So we spoke with Tim de Laurentiis

516
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:27.150 A:middle L:90%
, who is the director of the Office of scholarly

517
00:30:27.150 --> 00:30:32.559 A:middle L:90%
Communication and Publishing and the head of information technology at

518
00:30:32.569 --> 00:30:37.369 A:middle L:90%
their university library. Um They partnered with plum to

519
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:41.180 A:middle L:90%
um and by the way, I just love this

520
00:30:41.180 --> 00:30:42.049 A:middle L:90%
and I feel like they may have missed a marketing

521
00:30:42.049 --> 00:30:48.569 A:middle L:90%
opportunity because it's plum analytics and Emily sure work and

522
00:30:48.579 --> 00:30:51.609 A:middle L:90%
like University of Pittsburgh pictures left a pit of the

523
00:30:51.619 --> 00:30:55.880 A:middle L:90%
plum, I love it, I don't know that

524
00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:59.460 A:middle L:90%
they have used that to their advantage as much as

525
00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:03.079 A:middle L:90%
I think they could. Um So plump and they

526
00:31:03.089 --> 00:31:06.839 A:middle L:90%
did that for several reasons, it was right for

527
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:10.920 A:middle L:90%
them they were interested in, they were really looking

528
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:14.450 A:middle L:90%
for opportunities, put themselves in faculty spaces. They

529
00:31:14.450 --> 00:31:18.900 A:middle L:90%
were revamping their library liaison program. Um And they

530
00:31:18.910 --> 00:31:21.759 A:middle L:90%
really wanted to get a deeper understanding of scholarly communication

531
00:31:21.769 --> 00:31:25.220 A:middle L:90%
issues facing their particular faculty. So the time was

532
00:31:25.220 --> 00:31:27.289 A:middle L:90%
really right. They also um the creators of plum

533
00:31:27.289 --> 00:31:30.289 A:middle L:90%
out on there were people who had built a product

534
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:33.269 A:middle L:90%
that they also work that they also used. That

535
00:31:33.269 --> 00:31:37.789 A:middle L:90%
they have um a different context and so they had

536
00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:41.819 A:middle L:90%
to build up trust in them. So it all

537
00:31:41.829 --> 00:31:42.539 A:middle L:90%
seemed to work out great for them and they haven't

538
00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:45.829 A:middle L:90%
lessons learned. Um But the way this worked was

539
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:52.910 A:middle L:90%
um They identified some charging faculty um 32 researchers across

540
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.720 A:middle L:90%
nine schools 18 departments. Um and they asked for

541
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:00.619 A:middle L:90%
current TV um which you know if they didn't get

542
00:32:00.630 --> 00:32:01.200 A:middle L:90%
current C. D. S. You know if

543
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:05.339 A:middle L:90%
they're missing some recent stuff that wasn't going to end

544
00:32:05.339 --> 00:32:07.609 A:middle L:90%
up getting counted. So they asked for currency.

545
00:32:07.619 --> 00:32:13.019 A:middle L:90%
They had students enter data from the seat into their

546
00:32:13.029 --> 00:32:17.009 A:middle L:90%
um institutional repository and then the plum tool wouldn't mind

547
00:32:17.009 --> 00:32:21.019 A:middle L:90%
that. And then got and search the web for

548
00:32:21.019 --> 00:32:23.480 A:middle L:90%
metrics about each of those artifacts. If you go

549
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:29.170 A:middle L:90%
to the next slide uh you can kind of see

550
00:32:29.180 --> 00:32:35.470 A:middle L:90%
um some of the a little bit of the indicates

551
00:32:35.470 --> 00:32:39.920 A:middle L:90%
that the researchers so you'll notice the top bubble is

552
00:32:39.930 --> 00:32:45.359 A:middle L:90%
an artifact summary. So uh first of all the

553
00:32:45.369 --> 00:32:49.420 A:middle L:90%
plumbing tool you know allows a whole array of different

554
00:32:49.420 --> 00:32:52.210 A:middle L:90%
kinds of artifacts. These include papers, book chapters

555
00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:55.559 A:middle L:90%
, books but also a blog post, grants,

556
00:32:55.569 --> 00:33:00.880 A:middle L:90%
figures, datasets, clinical trials, source code.

557
00:33:00.890 --> 00:33:04.950 A:middle L:90%
A dissertation Work here More More Than one Reservation.

558
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:08.730 A:middle L:90%
Levitt letters, patent these sorts of things. So

559
00:33:08.740 --> 00:33:12.950 A:middle L:90%
um you can have any number of different kinds of

560
00:33:12.950 --> 00:33:16.799 A:middle L:90%
artifacts and be mind across the web. Um Then

561
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:21.369 A:middle L:90%
they have a whole lot of metrics on usage.

562
00:33:21.380 --> 00:33:25.180 A:middle L:90%
And they group these metrics different countries. So they

563
00:33:25.180 --> 00:33:30.910 A:middle L:90%
have metrics that usage which are things like um views

564
00:33:30.910 --> 00:33:34.569 A:middle L:90%
, clicks, downloads. So anything anything viewed or

565
00:33:34.569 --> 00:33:38.500 A:middle L:90%
downloaded from their institutional repository. Um There any any

566
00:33:38.509 --> 00:33:43.359 A:middle L:90%
figure views on fixed share or text you got plus

567
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:47.109 A:middle L:90%
or holdings World Cat. Um even the kind of

568
00:33:47.109 --> 00:33:51.329 A:middle L:90%
thing. Um You have something called captures which are

569
00:33:51.329 --> 00:33:55.319 A:middle L:90%
things like um favorites. And how many times you

570
00:33:55.329 --> 00:33:59.950 A:middle L:90%
your artifacts has been put into a mental a group

571
00:33:59.950 --> 00:34:01.809 A:middle L:90%
or a site you like group the number of readers

572
00:34:01.819 --> 00:34:07.170 A:middle L:90%
on Mandalay for a particular artifacts. How many actors

573
00:34:07.170 --> 00:34:15.429 A:middle L:90%
you have get hub mentioned are things like how many

574
00:34:15.429 --> 00:34:20.679 A:middle L:90%
links does your artifacts have from Wikipedia? Or how

575
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:24.539 A:middle L:90%
many sort of uh blog accounts do you have on

576
00:34:24.550 --> 00:34:29.510 A:middle L:90%
research flogging or? Um I don't know those sort

577
00:34:29.510 --> 00:34:31.530 A:middle L:90%
of things. Uh Social media is again that think

578
00:34:31.530 --> 00:34:34.630 A:middle L:90%
that everybody thinks of, how many times was your

579
00:34:34.630 --> 00:34:38.050 A:middle L:90%
paper tweeted or shared on facebook or even a plus

580
00:34:38.050 --> 00:34:43.349 A:middle L:90%
one on the cool plus um or or what score

581
00:34:43.349 --> 00:34:46.889 A:middle L:90%
doesn't have I read it. And then citation.

582
00:34:46.900 --> 00:34:50.730 A:middle L:90%
They still they have you know some traditional metrics as

583
00:34:50.730 --> 00:34:53.550 A:middle L:90%
well. So they look at cross raft Microsoft Academic

584
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:57.579 A:middle L:90%
Research, Pub Med scopus and then also the U

585
00:34:57.579 --> 00:34:59.369 A:middle L:90%
. S. Patent Office. And let's get citations

586
00:34:59.380 --> 00:35:01.969 A:middle L:90%
. So they're capturing that information as well. Um

587
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:07.130 A:middle L:90%
Now for all of this data they have they display

588
00:35:07.130 --> 00:35:09.030 A:middle L:90%
it in sort of a table form and you can

589
00:35:09.030 --> 00:35:13.900 A:middle L:90%
tweak what whether you're looking at a particular artifact or

590
00:35:13.909 --> 00:35:16.019 A:middle L:90%
a set of artifacts or a set of types of

591
00:35:16.019 --> 00:35:21.800 A:middle L:90%
metrics and take any good export all of that Cst

592
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.630 A:middle L:90%
files what you can manipulate however you need to um

593
00:35:24.630 --> 00:35:29.750 A:middle L:90%
and assessed however you need to. But they also

594
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:34.210 A:middle L:90%
display this information visually and something that's a little bit

595
00:35:34.210 --> 00:35:37.309 A:middle L:90%
overwhelming If you have not seen this kind of interface

596
00:35:37.309 --> 00:35:40.639 A:middle L:90%
before. Um, something called the numbers and it's

597
00:35:40.650 --> 00:35:43.780 A:middle L:90%
on the next slide and I'm just going to describe

598
00:35:43.780 --> 00:35:45.059 A:middle L:90%
it before me go to the next slide. Um

599
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:50.559 A:middle L:90%
you'll see these okay or are you okay? So

600
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:54.559 A:middle L:90%
concentric circles and in the very middle is the name

601
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:58.750 A:middle L:90%
and I write it out today and this is actually

602
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:02.619 A:middle L:90%
a similar centers because the next concentric circle you see

603
00:36:02.619 --> 00:36:06.510 A:middle L:90%
a whole uh, like a doughnut. Um and

604
00:36:06.510 --> 00:36:08.710 A:middle L:90%
it says you probably can't see a teeny tiny this

605
00:36:08.710 --> 00:36:15.150 A:middle L:90%
is presentation now in a more comprehensive circle. This

606
00:36:15.150 --> 00:36:17.500 A:middle L:90%
is like a personal researchers output. So it will

607
00:36:17.500 --> 00:36:22.030 A:middle L:90%
have that first concentric circles, presentations and articles and

608
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:25.070 A:middle L:90%
book chapters and it will be different places of that

609
00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:28.329 A:middle L:90%
. And I just clicked on presentation so you can

610
00:36:28.329 --> 00:36:32.440 A:middle L:90%
see the impact of just the presentation. The next

611
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:37.000 A:middle L:90%
most concentric circle is are the actual presentation. So

612
00:36:37.010 --> 00:36:39.469 A:middle L:90%
I clicked on the thing that I have boxed in

613
00:36:39.469 --> 00:36:43.880 A:middle L:90%
green and a pop up window comes up and it's

614
00:36:43.889 --> 00:36:45.820 A:middle L:90%
that pop up window that's up to the upper left

615
00:36:45.829 --> 00:36:50.449 A:middle L:90%
and that's sort of a summary of that actual presentation

616
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:55.219 A:middle L:90%
. Plus the big metrics today that they found on

617
00:36:55.219 --> 00:36:58.849 A:middle L:90%
it. Like the numbers fill you with that presentation

618
00:36:59.329 --> 00:37:01.099 A:middle L:90%
. Um I don't really know how useful this centers

619
00:37:01.110 --> 00:37:06.119 A:middle L:90%
interface is but one thing I'm trying fascinating about this

620
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:07.349 A:middle L:90%
and this is what I wanted to even raise this

621
00:37:07.730 --> 00:37:13.400 A:middle L:90%
with plums shows you two kinds of numbers. This

622
00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:16.050 A:middle L:90%
is the default numbers book, they have another one

623
00:37:16.050 --> 00:37:20.679 A:middle L:90%
you can collect default or you can click Impact and

624
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:22.489 A:middle L:90%
it's an impact numbers. And what that does is

625
00:37:22.489 --> 00:37:29.230 A:middle L:90%
it wakes the slice of the circle based on its

626
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:32.880 A:middle L:90%
impact. Which gets back to our issue about standardization

627
00:37:32.889 --> 00:37:37.420 A:middle L:90%
of quality, right? Because it's saying uh this

628
00:37:37.429 --> 00:37:42.050 A:middle L:90%
this presentation was viewed 294 times on flight share,

629
00:37:42.130 --> 00:37:45.400 A:middle L:90%
download it twice. Favorited once and was tweeted ones

630
00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:46.820 A:middle L:90%
. Well, okay, so it's downloaded twice and

631
00:37:46.820 --> 00:37:52.519 A:middle L:90%
tweeted one. The weight of that circle of that

632
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:55.780 A:middle L:90%
particular paper or presentation or whatever would change if it

633
00:37:55.780 --> 00:38:00.739 A:middle L:90%
was tweeted choice and downloaded one based on some algorithms

634
00:38:00.750 --> 00:38:02.940 A:middle L:90%
, they've decided for how to wait eight different metrics

635
00:38:02.949 --> 00:38:06.940 A:middle L:90%
. So it's really fascinating. And that's something that

636
00:38:06.940 --> 00:38:08.809 A:middle L:90%
both 10 million eighties that pick and Emily and I

637
00:38:08.809 --> 00:38:12.719 A:middle L:90%
are agree there's like an issue there, right?

638
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.380 A:middle L:90%
Like what is that algorithm? And it darn well

639
00:38:15.380 --> 00:38:20.050 A:middle L:90%
, might very uh the weight of each of those

640
00:38:20.050 --> 00:38:22.619 A:middle L:90%
measures might vary across disciplines, across individual researchers or

641
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:27.199 A:middle L:90%
whatever. So that's that's fascinating. Yeah. You're

642
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:29.360 A:middle L:90%
gonna jump in, you speak up. I can't

643
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:32.610 A:middle L:90%
quite hear you on my end. Yeah, I

644
00:38:32.619 --> 00:38:37.949 A:middle L:90%
wanted to know if there's a way to yeah,

645
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:45.389 A:middle L:90%
find out of what the different disciplines Do because my

646
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:51.250 A:middle L:90%
work actually could spend three yeah distant points. And

647
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:55.610 A:middle L:90%
I wondering if there's a way to get that information

648
00:38:55.619 --> 00:39:01.210 A:middle L:90%
about, About what each Yeah. Are you asking

649
00:39:01.210 --> 00:39:06.650 A:middle L:90%
about that impact algorithm? So I think so.

650
00:39:06.650 --> 00:39:08.579 A:middle L:90%
I'm not really sure. I think plunges uses uh

651
00:39:08.579 --> 00:39:14.230 A:middle L:90%
huh. The same algorithm across all of the research

652
00:39:14.230 --> 00:39:17.090 A:middle L:90%
is and what we're saying is there like people want

653
00:39:17.090 --> 00:39:21.130 A:middle L:90%
to look at that and how they're waiting different metrics

654
00:39:21.139 --> 00:39:24.699 A:middle L:90%
by some people might feel like, well for me

655
00:39:24.710 --> 00:39:28.949 A:middle L:90%
, twitter is where all of my readers are or

656
00:39:28.949 --> 00:39:30.280 A:middle L:90%
for me my readers are going to go right away

657
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:34.449 A:middle L:90%
with my share or or mentally all the people that

658
00:39:34.449 --> 00:39:37.260 A:middle L:90%
are important to me or meddling. So we're different

659
00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:40.860 A:middle L:90%
things are done in different, different disciplines. What's

660
00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:46.510 A:middle L:90%
what they use into To pressure impact 20s? They

661
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:51.739 A:middle L:90%
use different tools more or less than others. And

662
00:39:51.969 --> 00:39:57.929 A:middle L:90%
I would like to maybe get access to that information

663
00:39:57.940 --> 00:40:00.230 A:middle L:90%
because as I said, I am, my work

664
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:06.349 A:middle L:90%
spends multiple disciplines and I I sort of want to

665
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:10.389 A:middle L:90%
know better what you can expect To go to a

666
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:15.449 A:middle L:90%
different one. That what Right, So we're not

667
00:40:15.449 --> 00:40:19.650 A:middle L:90%
there yet. I don't know that we're there yet

668
00:40:19.650 --> 00:40:24.110 A:middle L:90%
at all. And that's actually what one thing I

669
00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:29.340 A:middle L:90%
think that institutions and libraries can do if they're interested

670
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:31.329 A:middle L:90%
in engaging in this a field in all metrics in

671
00:40:31.329 --> 00:40:35.010 A:middle L:90%
general, is to do more research about that very

672
00:40:35.010 --> 00:40:38.599 A:middle L:90%
same thing. So that because that's a that's a

673
00:40:38.610 --> 00:40:42.699 A:middle L:90%
big gap right now. And even when I was

674
00:40:42.699 --> 00:40:45.139 A:middle L:90%
looking at a lot of them tools that are coming

675
00:40:45.139 --> 00:40:50.079 A:middle L:90%
out are treating treating are generally the same. You

676
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:52.429 A:middle L:90%
know, they're kind of doing a baseline assumption of

677
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.500 A:middle L:90%
where people share and how they share. And yet

678
00:40:54.500 --> 00:41:00.590 A:middle L:90%
we know from, from disciplines to individual researchers that

679
00:41:00.590 --> 00:41:05.369 A:middle L:90%
their staff strategies are very context dependent. So,

680
00:41:05.380 --> 00:41:08.800 A:middle L:90%
so yeah, I think that's something that planalytics knows

681
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:12.469 A:middle L:90%
that they don't know that either. Um and that's

682
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.050 A:middle L:90%
that's the big next step I think for the analysts

683
00:41:15.050 --> 00:41:20.010 A:middle L:90%
to progress as a field. Yeah. And so

684
00:41:20.019 --> 00:41:22.619 A:middle L:90%
now I'm just gonna close my section, say with

685
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:23.289 A:middle L:90%
that, I'm gonna pass out to Emily he's gonna

686
00:41:23.300 --> 00:41:27.130 A:middle L:90%
start to talk a little bit more about researchers on

687
00:41:27.139 --> 00:41:30.860 A:middle L:90%
on um university of michigan campus. All right,

688
00:41:30.869 --> 00:41:31.619 A:middle L:90%
past the doctor. But of course I'll jump in

689
00:41:31.619 --> 00:41:34.440 A:middle L:90%
again in the way the discussion if there, you

690
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:37.750 A:middle L:90%
know, when there is a so differently. And

691
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:38.659 A:middle L:90%
so should I, should I in the meantime,

692
00:41:38.670 --> 00:41:42.739 A:middle L:90%
as a graduate student kind of approach my library to

693
00:41:42.739 --> 00:41:45.030 A:middle L:90%
see what they can do for the for me about

694
00:41:45.409 --> 00:41:49.320 A:middle L:90%
if they are if they are interested or fighting out

695
00:41:49.809 --> 00:41:52.750 A:middle L:90%
. Yeah, I'm actually your librarian. So I'm

696
00:41:52.750 --> 00:41:55.099 A:middle L:90%
pleased on core philosophy. And so you're absolutely welcome

697
00:41:55.099 --> 00:41:59.059 A:middle L:90%
to come talk with me when it comes to waiting

698
00:41:59.059 --> 00:42:00.949 A:middle L:90%
all metrics and sort of assigning a value. It's

699
00:42:00.949 --> 00:42:04.849 A:middle L:90%
very much what Emily and Sarah are saying it's a

700
00:42:04.860 --> 00:42:07.920 A:middle L:90%
very new field and um, it's hard to wait

701
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.639 A:middle L:90%
like the discipline of philosophy. I mean, even

702
00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:17.110 A:middle L:90%
philosophy because there's everything from like almost computational logic to

703
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:21.750 A:middle L:90%
something. You know, it's a diverse field within

704
00:42:21.750 --> 00:42:23.539 A:middle L:90%
itself. It would be hard even within one discipline

705
00:42:23.539 --> 00:42:28.010 A:middle L:90%
to wait. The value of a particular all metric

706
00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:30.889 A:middle L:90%
. And so that's what sort of, well,

707
00:42:30.900 --> 00:42:32.650 A:middle L:90%
let me let me talk but then we can talk

708
00:42:32.659 --> 00:42:37.480 A:middle L:90%
for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm

709
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:42.730 A:middle L:90%
gonna Yeah, yeah, so, um, I'm

710
00:42:42.730 --> 00:42:44.510 A:middle L:90%
going to spend a little bit of time and please

711
00:42:44.510 --> 00:42:46.019 A:middle L:90%
do feel free to continue to interrupt or if you

712
00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:51.289 A:middle L:90%
have questions. But talking about when we um started

713
00:42:51.289 --> 00:42:53.400 A:middle L:90%
a research over the summer, we did a little

714
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:58.119 A:middle L:90%
bit of lightweight uh, interviews with some researchers in

715
00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:00.420 A:middle L:90%
these two units and we recognize that this is only

716
00:43:00.420 --> 00:43:04.030 A:middle L:90%
a very small start and this is not conclusive or

717
00:43:04.030 --> 00:43:06.210 A:middle L:90%
general Izabal, but I just wanted to share kind

718
00:43:06.210 --> 00:43:09.010 A:middle L:90%
of what what we found from our conversations with these

719
00:43:09.010 --> 00:43:13.030 A:middle L:90%
researchers and then what we've decided to do is next

720
00:43:13.030 --> 00:43:15.699 A:middle L:90%
steps to address this gap specifically. So, um

721
00:43:15.710 --> 00:43:19.880 A:middle L:90%
, in general, when we talked to researchers within

722
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:22.050 A:middle L:90%
the physics department and within the, what we call

723
00:43:22.059 --> 00:43:25.639 A:middle L:90%
a country, the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute

724
00:43:25.650 --> 00:43:29.860 A:middle L:90%
, we found that um, the faculty who are

725
00:43:29.860 --> 00:43:32.360 A:middle L:90%
engaging with all metrics or what we would consider early

726
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:37.309 A:middle L:90%
adopters. They are faculty who generally have some sort

727
00:43:37.309 --> 00:43:40.789 A:middle L:90%
of web presence beyond maybe their standard um, profile

728
00:43:40.789 --> 00:43:45.199 A:middle L:90%
in the university directory. They might have their own

729
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:47.389 A:middle L:90%
web page, their own profile on google scholar.

730
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:52.199 A:middle L:90%
Um there possibly using google analytics, things like that

731
00:43:52.210 --> 00:43:55.110 A:middle L:90%
. Um, so they have a sense of the

732
00:43:55.500 --> 00:43:59.610 A:middle L:90%
um for them internally, um, the value of

733
00:43:59.610 --> 00:44:01.269 A:middle L:90%
having a web presence and maintaining my web presence.

734
00:44:01.269 --> 00:44:04.760 A:middle L:90%
So that's something to consider. Um is that not

735
00:44:04.769 --> 00:44:08.179 A:middle L:90%
all faculty um use the web like this? Um

736
00:44:08.190 --> 00:44:12.889 A:middle L:90%
, but there they are again targeting, they they're

737
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:15.730 A:middle L:90%
specifically wanting to target their research on a package the

738
00:44:15.730 --> 00:44:20.840 A:middle L:90%
research to target specific audiences for specific intentions not coming

739
00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:22.980 A:middle L:90%
to that in a little bit. Um, but

740
00:44:22.980 --> 00:44:25.699 A:middle L:90%
they're also not using the same words that were using

741
00:44:25.699 --> 00:44:30.219 A:middle L:90%
it at least as librarians or in um situations where

742
00:44:30.219 --> 00:44:32.730 A:middle L:90%
we're talking about scholarly communication. So they're not saying

743
00:44:32.739 --> 00:44:36.269 A:middle L:90%
the words open access, they're not saying the words

744
00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:38.349 A:middle L:90%
all metrics. Um they're thinking in terms of citation

745
00:44:38.349 --> 00:44:42.719 A:middle L:90%
statistics or that journal that gives me a lot of

746
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:45.829 A:middle L:90%
hits even though that might be an open access journal

747
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.329 A:middle L:90%
. Um So that's something to really consider is that

748
00:44:49.340 --> 00:44:52.630 A:middle L:90%
we're using myself as a library and I'm using a

749
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:55.039 A:middle L:90%
little bit of a different language to discuss this stuff

750
00:44:55.039 --> 00:45:00.460 A:middle L:90%
and we need to um I understand that and potentially

751
00:45:00.469 --> 00:45:06.079 A:middle L:90%
reframe the conversation um in terms that are relevant to

752
00:45:06.090 --> 00:45:08.949 A:middle L:90%
researchers and scholars that we're engaging with. So next

753
00:45:08.949 --> 00:45:13.349 A:middle L:90%
five. So one of the conversations we had the

754
00:45:13.349 --> 00:45:15.420 A:middle L:90%
researcher, um he was interesting. He was he

755
00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:19.519 A:middle L:90%
said that the research should speak for itself specifically.

756
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.510 A:middle L:90%
He was against blogging, but yet he had um

757
00:45:22.889 --> 00:45:27.059 A:middle L:90%
his own mailing list for distribution of his research.

758
00:45:27.059 --> 00:45:30.949 A:middle L:90%
So he was disseminated little bits and pieces updates of

759
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:35.440 A:middle L:90%
his research to people who had asked to be kept

760
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:37.579 A:middle L:90%
in the loop over time. And then he also

761
00:45:37.590 --> 00:45:43.000 A:middle L:90%
um would distribute his research in terms of small white

762
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:45.619 A:middle L:90%
papers and things like that to media outlets. So

763
00:45:45.619 --> 00:45:49.239 A:middle L:90%
for example, our university newspaper, the record picks

764
00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:51.840 A:middle L:90%
up a lot of stuff and turn other media outlets

765
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:52.570 A:middle L:90%
pick up a lot of stuff. So he's being

766
00:45:52.570 --> 00:45:57.369 A:middle L:90%
very specific about his dissemination. So he started using

767
00:45:57.380 --> 00:46:00.059 A:middle L:90%
uh metric dot com as a way to get a

768
00:46:00.059 --> 00:46:04.710 A:middle L:90%
holistic sense of how people are engaging with this research

769
00:46:04.710 --> 00:46:08.099 A:middle L:90%
because of these strategies. Um but he doesn't necessarily

770
00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:12.610 A:middle L:90%
see the value. Yet he's experimenting. So he's

771
00:46:12.610 --> 00:46:14.710 A:middle L:90%
not saying that this is necessarily a good or a

772
00:46:14.710 --> 00:46:16.360 A:middle L:90%
bad thing. Um And again, this was one

773
00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:20.110 A:middle L:90%
of the people that we talked to that didn't know

774
00:46:20.110 --> 00:46:22.800 A:middle L:90%
the term open access, didn't know the term institutional

775
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.460 A:middle L:90%
repository, but yet he publishes it open access journals

776
00:46:25.460 --> 00:46:30.170 A:middle L:90%
and prefers them. Um When we got speaking about

777
00:46:30.170 --> 00:46:34.300 A:middle L:90%
this. And he also publishes his work in our

778
00:46:34.309 --> 00:46:37.789 A:middle L:90%
institutional repository that we call Deep Blue because he sees

779
00:46:37.789 --> 00:46:43.639 A:middle L:90%
the value in making that accessible to people for a

780
00:46:43.650 --> 00:46:45.869 A:middle L:90%
stable U. R. L. It's easier for

781
00:46:45.869 --> 00:46:50.610 A:middle L:90%
him um to put something into an institutional repository that

782
00:46:50.619 --> 00:46:52.309 A:middle L:90%
puts things into a Kia format and he can just

783
00:46:52.309 --> 00:46:53.449 A:middle L:90%
send out the D. O. S. And

784
00:46:53.449 --> 00:46:59.079 A:middle L:90%
things like that. Um But he doesn't doesn't really

785
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:00.420 A:middle L:90%
know, he doesn't know right? So that was

786
00:47:00.420 --> 00:47:04.239 A:middle L:90%
kind of a another conversations like this is kind of

787
00:47:04.250 --> 00:47:07.349 A:middle L:90%
typical of some of the conversations we're having um informally

788
00:47:07.349 --> 00:47:09.179 A:middle L:90%
with other people. And the next slide is another

789
00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:14.539 A:middle L:90%
person's perspective. Um This person was a younger um

790
00:47:14.550 --> 00:47:16.880 A:middle L:90%
faculty member who was starting to see this change in

791
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:21.579 A:middle L:90%
the way that his own students on his own researchers

792
00:47:21.590 --> 00:47:23.409 A:middle L:90%
were starting to look for information. So he is

793
00:47:23.409 --> 00:47:27.900 A:middle L:90%
noticing that people are going to google first even though

794
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:30.360 A:middle L:90%
they know how to search. Um the database is

795
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:32.980 A:middle L:90%
they know how to search their own scholarly publications in

796
00:47:32.980 --> 00:47:36.289 A:middle L:90%
their own journals, but their first steps still is

797
00:47:36.300 --> 00:47:38.510 A:middle L:90%
considerable and finding what they can find that's completely open

798
00:47:38.510 --> 00:47:42.809 A:middle L:90%
access and free to download and use without a log

799
00:47:42.809 --> 00:47:45.400 A:middle L:90%
in even. Um so so there's that ease of

800
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:49.460 A:middle L:90%
access, but starting to impact people's research habits and

801
00:47:49.460 --> 00:47:52.110 A:middle L:90%
search habits in general. Um again this is somebody

802
00:47:52.110 --> 00:47:54.429 A:middle L:90%
who is using the web very actively to promote their

803
00:47:54.429 --> 00:48:00.070 A:middle L:90%
own work um or to engage in different communities for

804
00:48:00.070 --> 00:48:04.599 A:middle L:90%
this, but they're still seeing um the they're trusting

805
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:07.630 A:middle L:90%
the value of traditional metrics for impact. So um

806
00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:10.579 A:middle L:90%
the H index and the general impact factor, Those

807
00:48:10.579 --> 00:48:14.250 A:middle L:90%
are the things that they still look forward to illustrate

808
00:48:14.260 --> 00:48:16.059 A:middle L:90%
for them the value. But they are starting to

809
00:48:16.059 --> 00:48:22.159 A:middle L:90%
experiment and supplement with all metrics. And again they

810
00:48:22.170 --> 00:48:27.329 A:middle L:90%
this person was specifically interested in um what when trying

811
00:48:27.329 --> 00:48:29.849 A:middle L:90%
to phrase is matching the perception of their work to

812
00:48:29.860 --> 00:48:31.449 A:middle L:90%
this in the nation venues. So that's the person

813
00:48:31.449 --> 00:48:35.829 A:middle L:90%
who wanted to chunk the research into different formats for

814
00:48:35.829 --> 00:48:37.369 A:middle L:90%
different people. So how can you package it in

815
00:48:37.369 --> 00:48:40.980 A:middle L:90%
different ways? Um And again that's, he mentioned

816
00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:44.119 A:middle L:90%
that some scientists that he has worked as in the

817
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:45.469 A:middle L:90%
past, I feel like when you disseminate to the

818
00:48:45.469 --> 00:48:47.989 A:middle L:90%
public you're dumbing down your research. But he felt

819
00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:52.130 A:middle L:90%
very strongly that there was a value to disseminate his

820
00:48:52.130 --> 00:48:54.860 A:middle L:90%
research to um to the public or parts of his

821
00:48:54.860 --> 00:48:58.880 A:middle L:90%
research to the public. And this person was actively

822
00:48:58.889 --> 00:49:01.889 A:middle L:90%
um putting the research out to end their data out

823
00:49:01.900 --> 00:49:07.409 A:middle L:90%
as well too, provide opportunities for people to look

824
00:49:07.409 --> 00:49:08.590 A:middle L:90%
at it and say, oh, that's a cool

825
00:49:08.590 --> 00:49:10.369 A:middle L:90%
project, I might want to work with you.

826
00:49:10.369 --> 00:49:13.690 A:middle L:90%
So to showcase the cool stuff that this person is

827
00:49:13.690 --> 00:49:15.460 A:middle L:90%
doing, um so that potentially there are graduate students

828
00:49:15.460 --> 00:49:17.960 A:middle L:90%
who might come to the program to partner with this

829
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:22.039 A:middle L:90%
researcher to do work or um in this case,

830
00:49:22.050 --> 00:49:23.789 A:middle L:90%
this is a group that has to attract a lot

831
00:49:23.789 --> 00:49:25.929 A:middle L:90%
of outside funding sources. So this was a way

832
00:49:25.929 --> 00:49:31.989 A:middle L:90%
to potentially engage um grant, um, foundations or

833
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:36.010 A:middle L:90%
federal agencies in um looking at the type of research

834
00:49:36.010 --> 00:49:37.239 A:middle L:90%
they're doing so that they can get more money for

835
00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:39.809 A:middle L:90%
future work. So, so that that is we

836
00:49:39.820 --> 00:49:43.280 A:middle L:90%
we discussed this, but that is a question um

837
00:49:43.869 --> 00:49:45.429 A:middle L:90%
that I would be interested in learning from you,

838
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:50.679 A:middle L:90%
how, how y'all are engaging in this kind of

839
00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:52.110 A:middle L:90%
stuff yourself, or if you're engaging in at all

840
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:54.780 A:middle L:90%
if these kinds of tools are useful, do you

841
00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:57.900 A:middle L:90%
think they're useful to you and your own discipline?

842
00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:07.469 A:middle L:90%
I think that conversation is still beginning here attack.

843
00:50:07.469 --> 00:50:10.809 A:middle L:90%
I think there's definitely interest, but we're still beginning

844
00:50:10.820 --> 00:50:15.510 A:middle L:90%
to kind of map out the the entire research environment

845
00:50:15.510 --> 00:50:17.940 A:middle L:90%
. That that's something that we haven't yet. We've

846
00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:21.440 A:middle L:90%
started discussions about it. We have this really interesting

847
00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:23.820 A:middle L:90%
Center for Digital Research and Scholarship that's working very hard

848
00:50:23.820 --> 00:50:28.130 A:middle L:90%
at kind of mapping, who's working where and in

849
00:50:28.130 --> 00:50:31.929 A:middle L:90%
what ways with digital research. And it's still,

850
00:50:31.940 --> 00:50:35.840 A:middle L:90%
I think we are beginning of our second year,

851
00:50:35.849 --> 00:50:37.880 A:middle L:90%
is that correct? I think so. Yeah.

852
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:43.719 A:middle L:90%
Well, no, just cedars work in general sort

853
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:49.349 A:middle L:90%
of thinking through what services and tools digital researchers need

854
00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:52.099 A:middle L:90%
. Um but cedars is a year just a year

855
00:50:52.099 --> 00:50:55.489 A:middle L:90%
old, so we're still at that initial stage.

856
00:50:55.500 --> 00:51:00.030 A:middle L:90%
Um Mhm. Yeah, I mean I think that's

857
00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.019 A:middle L:90%
that's what we're finding is like even the people that

858
00:51:02.019 --> 00:51:07.670 A:middle L:90%
we would consider early adopters are not considering themselves that

859
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:10.030 A:middle L:90%
and they're not thinking of best in terms of shifting

860
00:51:10.030 --> 00:51:13.360 A:middle L:90%
the way that they think about their research and their

861
00:51:13.369 --> 00:51:15.159 A:middle L:90%
dissemination fundamentally. It's just a new set of web

862
00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:21.079 A:middle L:90%
tools that they're experimenting with right now. So um

863
00:51:21.090 --> 00:51:22.659 A:middle L:90%
I think you can go to the next slide if

864
00:51:22.659 --> 00:51:24.579 A:middle L:90%
you want. Okay. Um so one thing I

865
00:51:24.579 --> 00:51:27.940 A:middle L:90%
just wanted to point out is that I see this

866
00:51:27.940 --> 00:51:29.750 A:middle L:90%
, but I think other people see this as the

867
00:51:29.750 --> 00:51:35.019 A:middle L:90%
way um of illustrating what we can actually start doing

868
00:51:35.019 --> 00:51:37.329 A:middle L:90%
with open access. I mentioned this before. Um

869
00:51:37.340 --> 00:51:38.559 A:middle L:90%
but it's not a matter of if open access is

870
00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:40.239 A:middle L:90%
going to happen anymore. I think it's a matter

871
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:45.190 A:middle L:90%
of how it is already happening and this is important

872
00:51:45.190 --> 00:51:49.730 A:middle L:90%
to consider in terms of publication models as well as

873
00:51:49.739 --> 00:51:52.289 A:middle L:90%
the tools that people are starting to build on top

874
00:51:52.289 --> 00:51:57.019 A:middle L:90%
of these open systems to engage in scholarship or make

875
00:51:57.019 --> 00:52:00.239 A:middle L:90%
visible the work and scholarship in different ways. And

876
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:02.210 A:middle L:90%
that's where all metrics is coming in. So it's

877
00:52:02.210 --> 00:52:05.679 A:middle L:90%
kind of the things that you can do that we

878
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:09.079 A:middle L:90%
can start doing now that open access is becoming slightly

879
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:15.360 A:middle L:90%
more um stable in certain places. I mean if

880
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:16.860 A:middle L:90%
you look at the world of scholarship, this is

881
00:52:16.860 --> 00:52:21.409 A:middle L:90%
definitely not. We haven't shifted to the full adoption

882
00:52:21.409 --> 00:52:22.099 A:middle L:90%
rate yet. But um, I think we have

883
00:52:22.099 --> 00:52:29.309 A:middle L:90%
enough open access opportunities within, with institutional repositories with

884
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:30.980 A:middle L:90%
journals, certain generals and certain disciplines that we can

885
00:52:30.980 --> 00:52:35.869 A:middle L:90%
start seeing these interesting things happening with the tools like

886
00:52:35.869 --> 00:52:37.869 A:middle L:90%
all metrics. Um, so I think that that's

887
00:52:38.449 --> 00:52:44.059 A:middle L:90%
an interesting next phase of open access, even though

888
00:52:44.070 --> 00:52:45.289 A:middle L:90%
that we're not still is not as we haven't reached

889
00:52:45.289 --> 00:52:49.150 A:middle L:90%
that saturation point just yet, but I would like

890
00:52:49.150 --> 00:52:52.480 A:middle L:90%
to stress that all of this is built on ideas

891
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:54.900 A:middle L:90%
of transparency, participation and collaboration. Um And this

892
00:52:54.900 --> 00:52:59.340 A:middle L:90%
is kind of a fundamental perspective with a lot of

893
00:52:59.340 --> 00:53:00.960 A:middle L:90%
open movements in general, with open software, with

894
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:05.230 A:middle L:90%
open education with open access. Um and now with

895
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:07.639 A:middle L:90%
, you know, thinking about pulling in um the

896
00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:12.739 A:middle L:90%
different ways that people are engaging with your work or

897
00:53:12.750 --> 00:53:15.369 A:middle L:90%
examining your work or sharing your work. Um and

898
00:53:15.369 --> 00:53:20.670 A:middle L:90%
so that's that's just something that I think will be

899
00:53:20.670 --> 00:53:22.000 A:middle L:90%
really interesting in the next couple of years to see

900
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:25.030 A:middle L:90%
this next step of what we can start really doing

901
00:53:25.030 --> 00:53:28.119 A:middle L:90%
the interesting things and the fun things you can start

902
00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:30.429 A:middle L:90%
doing now that we have open access, um some

903
00:53:30.429 --> 00:53:35.800 A:middle L:90%
some resources to play with. So I just wanted

904
00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:37.860 A:middle L:90%
to point that out and then I'm thinking, move

905
00:53:37.860 --> 00:53:39.530 A:middle L:90%
to the next slide. Um This is what we're

906
00:53:39.530 --> 00:53:43.219 A:middle L:90%
actually looking to do at the university of michigan,

907
00:53:43.230 --> 00:53:47.000 A:middle L:90%
so kind of what we've been discussing um throughout this

908
00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:51.599 A:middle L:90%
whole conversations that we need to learn more about our

909
00:53:51.610 --> 00:53:54.480 A:middle L:90%
own community here at the University of michigan. Um

910
00:53:54.489 --> 00:53:55.849 A:middle L:90%
And I know y'all are, I think you're all

911
00:53:55.849 --> 00:54:00.599 A:middle L:90%
about of time, but we're gonna be having conversations

912
00:54:00.610 --> 00:54:02.230 A:middle L:90%
um and we're gonna be developing case studies with several

913
00:54:02.230 --> 00:54:06.960 A:middle L:90%
different groups um with both within the library and without

914
00:54:06.969 --> 00:54:09.239 A:middle L:90%
the library. So potentially looking at um what does

915
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:12.820 A:middle L:90%
that metric seems to help finance is what does it

916
00:54:12.820 --> 00:54:15.010 A:middle L:90%
mean to faculty development, What does it mean to

917
00:54:15.010 --> 00:54:16.289 A:middle L:90%
our collection? Um And these are some of the

918
00:54:16.289 --> 00:54:19.630 A:middle L:90%
questions that we might be asking about that. So

919
00:54:19.630 --> 00:54:22.039 A:middle L:90%
that's something that we intend to do in the next

920
00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:24.550 A:middle L:90%
several months to set those up based on interests based

921
00:54:24.550 --> 00:54:28.050 A:middle L:90%
on people want to um in the library want to

922
00:54:28.050 --> 00:54:30.909 A:middle L:90%
take up those research questions that you against the next

923
00:54:30.909 --> 00:54:36.139 A:middle L:90%
guy. We're also looking at potentially building some infrastructure

924
00:54:36.139 --> 00:54:38.329 A:middle L:90%
to support these things. Um, we don't necessarily

925
00:54:38.329 --> 00:54:39.579 A:middle L:90%
, we have, we have a long history of

926
00:54:39.590 --> 00:54:44.019 A:middle L:90%
building things ourselves here at michigan. So this is

927
00:54:44.030 --> 00:54:45.929 A:middle L:90%
kind of falls in line with that tradition. Um

928
00:54:45.940 --> 00:54:51.110 A:middle L:90%
we might engage and we probably will engage in some

929
00:54:51.110 --> 00:54:52.699 A:middle L:90%
vendor solutions, but I think one thing we want

930
00:54:52.699 --> 00:54:57.150 A:middle L:90%
to really look at um for ourselves is how we

931
00:54:57.150 --> 00:55:00.250 A:middle L:90%
can start capturing some of those nontraditional assets that are

932
00:55:00.250 --> 00:55:02.099 A:middle L:90%
being developed by our own faculty members and our own

933
00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:06.719 A:middle L:90%
students and our own staff members even, that are

934
00:55:06.730 --> 00:55:08.869 A:middle L:90%
part of the solidly process that have not traditionally been

935
00:55:08.869 --> 00:55:15.289 A:middle L:90%
captured and thought about in um the scholarly world,

936
00:55:15.289 --> 00:55:16.960 A:middle L:90%
so not just the outcome of the product of research

937
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:20.800 A:middle L:90%
, but the process of research itself to. Um

938
00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:23.349 A:middle L:90%
so that's where our research data services group is working

939
00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:27.989 A:middle L:90%
on the data side to to really think about how

940
00:55:27.989 --> 00:55:30.849 A:middle L:90%
we're capturing and storing and making available to re use

941
00:55:30.860 --> 00:55:34.969 A:middle L:90%
different types of data sets. Um for example,

942
00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:37.570 A:middle L:90%
and then these are two questions that we might ask

943
00:55:37.579 --> 00:55:42.409 A:middle L:90%
when we think about potentially building onto the infrastructure we

944
00:55:42.409 --> 00:55:45.400 A:middle L:90%
have are augmenting the infrastructure we have, like our

945
00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:47.920 A:middle L:90%
institutional repositories for us, what do we want to

946
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:52.570 A:middle L:90%
focus on that would be our multi metric. Um

947
00:55:52.570 --> 00:55:53.739 A:middle L:90%
and then it's also a chance for us to take

948
00:55:53.739 --> 00:55:58.309 A:middle L:90%
a pause and kind of imagine what we think the

949
00:55:58.309 --> 00:56:00.969 A:middle L:90%
future status scholarly communication and research should be and how

950
00:56:00.969 --> 00:56:04.420 A:middle L:90%
we at the university michigan library should engage with that

951
00:56:04.420 --> 00:56:06.889 A:middle L:90%
specifically. So kind of look at that big picture

952
00:56:06.889 --> 00:56:09.360 A:middle L:90%
kind of guy and um start building something toward that

953
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:14.469 A:middle L:90%
vision that we have. So um I think the

954
00:56:14.469 --> 00:56:16.210 A:middle L:90%
next slide is the last slide and these are just

955
00:56:16.210 --> 00:56:21.079 A:middle L:90%
some challenges we know we've got coming up. I

956
00:56:21.090 --> 00:56:22.539 A:middle L:90%
think we'll just open it up to compensation for anybody

957
00:56:22.539 --> 00:56:31.650 A:middle L:90%
who wants to stick around. I see that you

958
00:56:31.650 --> 00:56:35.809 A:middle L:90%
guys are raising challenges and concerns and I guess I'm

959
00:56:35.809 --> 00:56:39.110 A:middle L:90%
one of those people who have used like google metrics

960
00:56:39.110 --> 00:56:43.530 A:middle L:90%
for a scholar and a U. Analytics but not

961
00:56:43.530 --> 00:56:45.719 A:middle L:90%
really thinking about them in terms of all metrics.

962
00:56:45.730 --> 00:56:47.880 A:middle L:90%
And one thing that I'm kind of observing for your

963
00:56:47.889 --> 00:56:52.110 A:middle L:90%
presentation is that the focus, the ways in which

964
00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:55.590 A:middle L:90%
these kinds of things are determined seem to be oftentimes

965
00:56:55.599 --> 00:57:00.969 A:middle L:90%
based on how things are accessed and how often versus

966
00:57:00.969 --> 00:57:05.030 A:middle L:90%
how things are actually used. And so that is

967
00:57:05.030 --> 00:57:07.269 A:middle L:90%
kind of a concern for me as a faculty member

968
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:09.070 A:middle L:90%
, especially if these kinds of tools are being used

969
00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:14.019 A:middle L:90%
to uh determine the value of persons work um for

970
00:57:14.019 --> 00:57:15.469 A:middle L:90%
things like tenure promotion. And so I wonder are

971
00:57:15.469 --> 00:57:19.909 A:middle L:90%
there any steps being taken toward measuring the use of

972
00:57:19.909 --> 00:57:22.159 A:middle L:90%
the particular artifacts as opposed to how much glasses?

973
00:57:22.230 --> 00:57:24.210 A:middle L:90%
Because you know, I mean if we download them

974
00:57:24.219 --> 00:57:27.469 A:middle L:90%
, we could just immediately delete it because we find

975
00:57:27.469 --> 00:57:32.030 A:middle L:90%
it not useful. So I think I missed the

976
00:57:32.030 --> 00:57:35.039 A:middle L:90%
last little bit of that, but I think that's

977
00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:37.150 A:middle L:90%
a really, really excellent question. And again,

978
00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:42.150 A:middle L:90%
another reason why librarians and faculty members need to be

979
00:57:42.150 --> 00:57:44.650 A:middle L:90%
in the room of these discussions. Um I will

980
00:57:44.650 --> 00:57:49.780 A:middle L:90%
say I do think that some of the um metrics

981
00:57:49.780 --> 00:57:53.469 A:middle L:90%
that you know, all metrics cover um do point

982
00:57:53.480 --> 00:57:57.050 A:middle L:90%
to you. Um you know, I would say

983
00:57:57.059 --> 00:57:59.829 A:middle L:90%
a tweet is not necessarily using it. Like I

984
00:57:59.829 --> 00:58:01.780 A:middle L:90%
could retweet or just tweeted out about people, but

985
00:58:01.780 --> 00:58:02.949 A:middle L:90%
I haven't really read, but I kind of know

986
00:58:02.949 --> 00:58:06.239 A:middle L:90%
about the top. It is a topic that's not

987
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:08.300 A:middle L:90%
used, that sort of like maybe shouting out about

988
00:58:08.300 --> 00:58:12.880 A:middle L:90%
it. Um, I think that when you look

989
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:15.559 A:middle L:90%
at downloads that gets a little bit more to it

990
00:58:15.570 --> 00:58:16.900 A:middle L:90%
, but you don't know if I'm a PhD student

991
00:58:16.900 --> 00:58:20.820 A:middle L:90%
might download like 100 papers one day and then step

992
00:58:20.829 --> 00:58:22.889 A:middle L:90%
through 50 of them or all 100. But um

993
00:58:22.900 --> 00:58:25.659 A:middle L:90%
, it's, you know, I might not actually

994
00:58:25.659 --> 00:58:30.190 A:middle L:90%
reading that I download. Um I wonder if more

995
00:58:30.190 --> 00:58:35.940 A:middle L:90%
in the citation reference management for some of those metrics

996
00:58:35.940 --> 00:58:37.690 A:middle L:90%
might get a little bit at it, but I

997
00:58:37.690 --> 00:58:39.409 A:middle L:90%
guess it's a sort of an unsatisfying answer. But

998
00:58:39.409 --> 00:58:42.559 A:middle L:90%
I think ultimately you're right like this is something that

999
00:58:42.570 --> 00:58:45.130 A:middle L:90%
is definitely a challenge that something we need to address

1000
00:58:45.139 --> 00:58:47.840 A:middle L:90%
. Because it's not necessarily clear. We're not,

1001
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:51.489 A:middle L:90%
we don't really have something that's like this is a

1002
00:58:51.489 --> 00:58:53.239 A:middle L:90%
metric that says how much of your artifact was,

1003
00:58:53.250 --> 00:58:59.840 A:middle L:90%
you know, truly consumed by a reader or a

1004
00:58:59.849 --> 00:59:02.539 A:middle L:90%
like another scholar or a member of the public,

1005
00:59:02.550 --> 00:59:06.340 A:middle L:90%
whatever, you don't really have that magic metric.

1006
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:08.579 A:middle L:90%
Yeah, I I agree with you. I think

1007
00:59:08.590 --> 00:59:13.469 A:middle L:90%
this is a big sticking point right now in the

1008
00:59:13.469 --> 00:59:15.900 A:middle L:90%
world about metrics um in the world, I think

1009
00:59:15.900 --> 00:59:20.460 A:middle L:90%
actually a metrics in general. Um and that's something

1010
00:59:20.469 --> 00:59:23.670 A:middle L:90%
in with my head on a former Open Education coordinator

1011
00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:27.829 A:middle L:90%
that we worked really hard to address and deal with

1012
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:30.889 A:middle L:90%
this factor of the use of materials and how you

1013
00:59:30.889 --> 00:59:36.389 A:middle L:90%
can make visible the chain of innovation that can happen

1014
00:59:36.389 --> 00:59:37.739 A:middle L:90%
or the chain of, you know, um adap

1015
00:59:37.750 --> 00:59:43.449 A:middle L:90%
adaptations that can happen um by making your content available

1016
00:59:43.449 --> 00:59:45.039 A:middle L:90%
to be reused. And a lot of this has

1017
00:59:45.039 --> 00:59:51.880 A:middle L:90%
to do with packaging material and then setting up systems

1018
00:59:51.880 --> 00:59:54.929 A:middle L:90%
that allow you to to kind of track that chain

1019
00:59:54.940 --> 01:00:00.510 A:middle L:90%
of um that the downstream use the chain and chain

1020
01:00:00.510 --> 01:00:02.849 A:middle L:90%
abuse. Um Further one of the things that and

1021
01:00:02.849 --> 01:00:05.980 A:middle L:90%
so that's that's something we're thinking about with with our

1022
01:00:05.980 --> 01:00:07.760 A:middle L:90%
own institutional repositories, right? Is like how can

1023
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:12.889 A:middle L:90%
we um put put stuff in there so that is

1024
01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:15.539 A:middle L:90%
easily reusable and then how can we figure out ways

1025
01:00:15.539 --> 01:00:19.630 A:middle L:90%
to encourage the the um backwards kind of citation of

1026
01:00:19.630 --> 01:00:22.119 A:middle L:90%
that, say, or the attribution of that,

1027
01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:23.860 A:middle L:90%
I should say. Um uh when you re using

1028
01:00:23.860 --> 01:00:27.769 A:middle L:90%
works for example, example, you know, on

1029
01:00:27.769 --> 01:00:30.969 A:middle L:90%
this slide, I reuse this image that would license

1030
01:00:30.980 --> 01:00:34.380 A:middle L:90%
so that I was able to legally reuse it and

1031
01:00:34.380 --> 01:00:37.730 A:middle L:90%
I give attribution to the person and I told you

1032
01:00:37.730 --> 01:00:38.599 A:middle L:90%
worry about it, but I didn't necessarily feel that

1033
01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:43.150 A:middle L:90%
person like I can leave a comment on their site

1034
01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:47.150 A:middle L:90%
and that's what we sometimes you um but that that

1035
01:00:47.150 --> 01:00:51.150 A:middle L:90%
is a sticking point. Um and I think that's

1036
01:00:51.150 --> 01:00:52.679 A:middle L:90%
something that a lot of, I think that might

1037
01:00:52.679 --> 01:00:54.829 A:middle L:90%
be another one of those kind of next down the

1038
01:00:54.829 --> 01:00:58.880 A:middle L:90%
road of trying to figure that out. And I

1039
01:00:58.880 --> 01:01:02.710 A:middle L:90%
think that's also part of a culture of shifting the

1040
01:01:02.710 --> 01:01:07.460 A:middle L:90%
way we think about production consumption in general in an

1041
01:01:07.460 --> 01:01:12.769 A:middle L:90%
academic environment. So that's a habit issue, as

1042
01:01:12.769 --> 01:01:15.489 A:middle L:90%
much as an infrastructure issue to. Um So we

1043
01:01:15.489 --> 01:01:16.090 A:middle L:90%
need to figure out some tools to make it easy

1044
01:01:16.090 --> 01:01:19.630 A:middle L:90%
for people to do that, but we also um

1045
01:01:19.710 --> 01:01:23.260 A:middle L:90%
need to have conversations with people out why it's important

1046
01:01:23.269 --> 01:01:25.260 A:middle L:90%
to think about that too. And one of the

1047
01:01:25.260 --> 01:01:30.610 A:middle L:90%
things that I think that for example plumbing Alexis thinking

1048
01:01:30.610 --> 01:01:32.119 A:middle L:90%
of is trying to this gets a little bit I

1049
01:01:32.119 --> 01:01:36.929 A:middle L:90%
used is looking at still Alive and if your book

1050
01:01:36.940 --> 01:01:39.929 A:middle L:90%
or your article is put into a syllabus, so

1051
01:01:39.929 --> 01:01:42.900 A:middle L:90%
what does that mean? What does that look like

1052
01:01:42.909 --> 01:01:45.780 A:middle L:90%
? Um So that's another, it's not kind of

1053
01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:51.239 A:middle L:90%
another circulation statistic, but it's something interesting. I

1054
01:01:51.239 --> 01:01:53.630 A:middle L:90%
think that's interesting part of that conversation. Part of

1055
01:01:53.630 --> 01:01:55.360 A:middle L:90%
the thing that I mean what you just said,

1056
01:01:55.360 --> 01:01:59.940 A:middle L:90%
I think brings up for me is the issue of

1057
01:02:00.300 --> 01:02:04.190 A:middle L:90%
how much technological literacy is going to affect people's ability

1058
01:02:04.199 --> 01:02:06.730 A:middle L:90%
to have their work behind impact. You think that

1059
01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:10.949 A:middle L:90%
an issue or not so much? Can you rephrase

1060
01:02:10.949 --> 01:02:14.849 A:middle L:90%
that a little bit? Sure. Well, I

1061
01:02:14.849 --> 01:02:16.190 A:middle L:90%
guess I was just wondering if we are teaching or

1062
01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:19.320 A:middle L:90%
you guys are teaching people how to kind of package

1063
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:21.909 A:middle L:90%
their work so that it can be transportable. That's

1064
01:02:21.909 --> 01:02:23.130 A:middle L:90%
what you were saying, right? You're standing.

1065
01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:28.889 A:middle L:90%
So to my understanding, can the question is sort

1066
01:02:28.889 --> 01:02:32.329 A:middle L:90%
of like this techno technological skill bias, a particular

1067
01:02:32.329 --> 01:02:37.250 A:middle L:90%
scholar in favor of having a higher measure of influence

1068
01:02:37.250 --> 01:02:39.710 A:middle L:90%
through different all metrics? Yeah, so one of

1069
01:02:39.710 --> 01:02:46.010 A:middle L:90%
the things that when you head to their long pilot

1070
01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:51.789 A:middle L:90%
, um, they surveyed their faculty afterwards and they

1071
01:02:51.800 --> 01:02:57.019 A:middle L:90%
noticed the faculty of mixed reviews around the value of

1072
01:02:57.030 --> 01:03:01.079 A:middle L:90%
the pilot project, but it tends to fall um

1073
01:03:01.090 --> 01:03:05.230 A:middle L:90%
, sort of along generational lines, which you might

1074
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:08.619 A:middle L:90%
suspect correlates with the number of different aspects. Right

1075
01:03:08.619 --> 01:03:13.150 A:middle L:90%
? So, um, more early career scholars were

1076
01:03:13.150 --> 01:03:15.400 A:middle L:90%
sort of more into the all metrics pilot than later

1077
01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:19.010 A:middle L:90%
career scholars and there's a number of reasons for that

1078
01:03:19.019 --> 01:03:22.309 A:middle L:90%
surely will generate that. But maybe one also has

1079
01:03:22.309 --> 01:03:25.309 A:middle L:90%
to do with like the early career scholars just are

1080
01:03:25.320 --> 01:03:29.510 A:middle L:90%
out there on the over web and are more kind

1081
01:03:29.510 --> 01:03:32.769 A:middle L:90%
of uh excited about these discussions in these more open

1082
01:03:32.780 --> 01:03:37.119 A:middle L:90%
areas. I don't know if that at all yet

1083
01:03:37.130 --> 01:03:39.210 A:middle L:90%
, So there's that factor, but I I kind

1084
01:03:39.210 --> 01:03:42.139 A:middle L:90%
of disagree with that. I don't think that we

1085
01:03:42.150 --> 01:03:45.940 A:middle L:90%
necessarily need to make everybody super coefficient. Um and

1086
01:03:45.949 --> 01:03:47.579 A:middle L:90%
people have different reasons for wanting to have a lot

1087
01:03:47.579 --> 01:03:51.039 A:middle L:90%
of presents and it is becoming more of a normal

1088
01:03:51.039 --> 01:03:52.570 A:middle L:90%
, I know that um we're at the University of

1089
01:03:52.570 --> 01:03:55.139 A:middle L:90%
michigan teaching students a lot more about the importance of

1090
01:03:55.150 --> 01:03:59.679 A:middle L:90%
having, maintaining a presence, are being cautious about

1091
01:03:59.690 --> 01:04:02.630 A:middle L:90%
her thoughtful about it. Um but I do think

1092
01:04:02.630 --> 01:04:05.099 A:middle L:90%
that's one of the things that libraries potentially can do

1093
01:04:05.099 --> 01:04:08.869 A:middle L:90%
and institutions can do is figure out ways to make

1094
01:04:08.869 --> 01:04:11.769 A:middle L:90%
it easier for people to engage in this stuff without

1095
01:04:11.769 --> 01:04:15.599 A:middle L:90%
having to um pay a lot of attention to this

1096
01:04:15.610 --> 01:04:18.230 A:middle L:90%
. So because we're seeing people that are playing around

1097
01:04:18.230 --> 01:04:21.409 A:middle L:90%
with these tools are the ones that already have the

1098
01:04:21.409 --> 01:04:24.880 A:middle L:90%
web page that they maintain actively or at least in

1099
01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:27.369 A:middle L:90%
profile, that they maintain actively and they're very thoughtful

1100
01:04:27.369 --> 01:04:29.380 A:middle L:90%
and they put a lot of effort and attention into

1101
01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:32.920 A:middle L:90%
that already. So I think um that's something that

1102
01:04:33.789 --> 01:04:40.380 A:middle L:90%
that this can potentially bring, we know that there's

1103
01:04:40.380 --> 01:04:43.269 A:middle L:90%
less Matthew factory, like the rich get richer kind

1104
01:04:43.269 --> 01:04:44.699 A:middle L:90%
of thing, We know there's this kind of closed

1105
01:04:44.699 --> 01:04:47.349 A:middle L:90%
environment right now, people that are using all metrics

1106
01:04:47.349 --> 01:04:50.440 A:middle L:90%
and that are engaging in this space and we need

1107
01:04:50.449 --> 01:04:53.340 A:middle L:90%
to figure out how to level that playing field a

1108
01:04:53.340 --> 01:04:57.369 A:middle L:90%
little bit more without totally requiring that everybody become,

1109
01:04:57.380 --> 01:05:00.199 A:middle L:90%
you know, then everybody gets a twitter profile or

1110
01:05:00.199 --> 01:05:05.320 A:middle L:90%
whatever, whatever it is. Does that answer your

1111
01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:09.110 A:middle L:90%
question? Really? But we're thinking about that too

1112
01:05:09.489 --> 01:05:11.309 A:middle L:90%
. It's good to know that you're working on it

1113
01:05:11.889 --> 01:05:17.460 A:middle L:90%
. Yeah. Has there been a conversation about opening

1114
01:05:17.469 --> 01:05:23.960 A:middle L:90%
access to the pieces that make an artifact and what

1115
01:05:23.969 --> 01:05:27.679 A:middle L:90%
I consider an artifact on your screen and also access

1116
01:05:27.679 --> 01:05:31.610 A:middle L:90%
to the process of making purified. So right,

1117
01:05:32.309 --> 01:05:33.840 A:middle L:90%
in other words, if you have a paper for

1118
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:38.139 A:middle L:90%
instance and we talked about open access papers, a

1119
01:05:38.150 --> 01:05:42.280 A:middle L:90%
papers is a combination of many different points, as

1120
01:05:42.280 --> 01:05:45.409 A:middle L:90%
you said, datasets or conversations or specific research access

1121
01:05:45.889 --> 01:05:50.369 A:middle L:90%
. But very often one thing I'm curious about is

1122
01:05:50.380 --> 01:05:53.809 A:middle L:90%
what is the process, What's the assembly line that

1123
01:05:54.190 --> 01:05:56.800 A:middle L:90%
happened to get to that point where you have a

1124
01:05:56.809 --> 01:06:00.590 A:middle L:90%
paper we spent disseminates into these different ways of talking

1125
01:06:00.789 --> 01:06:02.500 A:middle L:90%
to twitter or facebook, whatever it might be,

1126
01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:05.460 A:middle L:90%
but there's a process that happens before that. And

1127
01:06:05.460 --> 01:06:08.079 A:middle L:90%
I'm curious to know if there's a way to sort

1128
01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:11.989 A:middle L:90%
of understand this causes any that's a place I think

1129
01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:15.230 A:middle L:90%
some sort of cross disciplinary where it starts to happen

1130
01:06:15.230 --> 01:06:16.820 A:middle L:90%
because you want to sort of take a part of

1131
01:06:16.829 --> 01:06:20.900 A:middle L:90%
that and say, I want to get into this

1132
01:06:20.909 --> 01:06:25.309 A:middle L:90%
part of the assembly chain and collaborating on this part

1133
01:06:25.309 --> 01:06:28.539 A:middle L:90%
of the process to address my issue in a completely

1134
01:06:28.539 --> 01:06:32.559 A:middle L:90%
different field. That question makes sense. Yeah.

1135
01:06:32.570 --> 01:06:35.909 A:middle L:90%
And I think that that's what we want to start

1136
01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:40.260 A:middle L:90%
thinking about. If we're going to build any anything

1137
01:06:40.260 --> 01:06:45.500 A:middle L:90%
into our existing infrastructures of our institutional repositories or um

1138
01:06:45.079 --> 01:06:47.769 A:middle L:90%
what we can capture, because we we want to

1139
01:06:47.769 --> 01:06:50.219 A:middle L:90%
start looking at some of those nontraditional assets that are

1140
01:06:50.230 --> 01:06:54.989 A:middle L:90%
part of the process of research and scholarship. Um

1141
01:06:56.179 --> 01:07:00.989 A:middle L:90%
, we there's the question of the level of granularity

1142
01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:05.920 A:middle L:90%
um, around this and and the practices around that

1143
01:07:05.929 --> 01:07:10.159 A:middle L:90%
, but I think that's something that this whole our

1144
01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:12.980 A:middle L:90%
university is starting to shift toward in general, even

1145
01:07:12.980 --> 01:07:16.110 A:middle L:90%
less than the education is. Um starting to share

1146
01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:19.880 A:middle L:90%
some of the process of learning in the classroom processes

1147
01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:26.409 A:middle L:90%
, starting to share um those like drafts of student

1148
01:07:26.409 --> 01:07:30.019 A:middle L:90%
work or drafts of certain pieces of research, um

1149
01:07:30.019 --> 01:07:32.760 A:middle L:90%
sharing the data sets that you built at a certain

1150
01:07:32.769 --> 01:07:36.730 A:middle L:90%
phase in your research or sharing, you know,

1151
01:07:36.730 --> 01:07:42.780 A:middle L:90%
if you're collecting um images or if you're collecting sound

1152
01:07:42.780 --> 01:07:45.329 A:middle L:90%
bites or things like that and storing them. Um

1153
01:07:45.340 --> 01:07:46.570 A:middle L:90%
But one of the things that we I think we

1154
01:07:46.570 --> 01:07:48.969 A:middle L:90%
need to figure out is how to how to mark

1155
01:07:48.969 --> 01:07:53.039 A:middle L:90%
those as pieces of the process um and how to

1156
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:55.949 A:middle L:90%
link those then up with the final private products so

1157
01:07:55.949 --> 01:07:58.599 A:middle L:90%
that you see that. Um So again on the

1158
01:07:58.610 --> 01:08:01.269 A:middle L:90%
flip side of the re use is the pro pro

1159
01:08:01.269 --> 01:08:03.539 A:middle L:90%
to use, I don't know. Um And like

1160
01:08:03.539 --> 01:08:06.670 A:middle L:90%
the re use of those kind of proto materials or

1161
01:08:06.670 --> 01:08:14.099 A:middle L:90%
this process materials um That's that's something actually um I'm

1162
01:08:14.099 --> 01:08:15.780 A:middle L:90%
not trying to be a pitch for a vendor,

1163
01:08:15.780 --> 01:08:17.659 A:middle L:90%
but some of the stuff that is on being thrown

1164
01:08:17.659 --> 01:08:20.539 A:middle L:90%
up on a fake share and get hub. Those

1165
01:08:20.539 --> 01:08:24.010 A:middle L:90%
are two places where people are starting to put drafts

1166
01:08:24.020 --> 01:08:27.159 A:middle L:90%
of things and um, wanting to figure out how

1167
01:08:27.159 --> 01:08:29.460 A:middle L:90%
to version of them or fork them. That's a

1168
01:08:29.460 --> 01:08:31.789 A:middle L:90%
term that comes from open source software. And those

1169
01:08:31.789 --> 01:08:34.699 A:middle L:90%
are some really interesting, um, emerging practices of

1170
01:08:34.710 --> 01:08:38.170 A:middle L:90%
people who are starting to deal with that right now

1171
01:08:38.300 --> 01:08:40.869 A:middle L:90%
to put their scholarship or the process of the scholarship

1172
01:08:40.869 --> 01:08:42.489 A:middle L:90%
up on the hope of lab, um, and

1173
01:08:42.489 --> 01:08:45.119 A:middle L:90%
make it available for comments. And most of the

1174
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:48.850 A:middle L:90%
time it's people within their discipline were commenting or engaging

1175
01:08:48.850 --> 01:08:50.229 A:middle L:90%
with that, but it is, but it's done

1176
01:08:50.229 --> 01:08:54.000 A:middle L:90%
in a completely open setting where like I can see

1177
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.189 A:middle L:90%
it even if I'm not a physicist or whatever.

1178
01:08:56.270 --> 01:08:59.600 A:middle L:90%
Um, so, so some of those conversations that

1179
01:09:00.270 --> 01:09:02.430 A:middle L:90%
are used to be dark and dark social webs,

1180
01:09:02.430 --> 01:09:05.000 A:middle L:90%
like on listeners and things like that are starting to

1181
01:09:05.369 --> 01:09:10.670 A:middle L:90%
the house and open spaces where you see the conversation

1182
01:09:10.680 --> 01:09:13.750 A:middle L:90%
attached to the artifact too. So those are two

1183
01:09:13.760 --> 01:09:16.399 A:middle L:90%
places that are playing around with that and they're probably

1184
01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:19.109 A:middle L:90%
more um, that we kind of should just start

1185
01:09:19.109 --> 01:09:21.970 A:middle L:90%
uncovering and looking at that are pretty interesting. Yeah

1186
01:09:21.979 --> 01:09:25.180 A:middle L:90%
, Emily I'd add to that the Git hub and

1187
01:09:25.180 --> 01:09:27.090 A:middle L:90%
picture I think are the two most prominent. But

1188
01:09:27.090 --> 01:09:29.960 A:middle L:90%
then there's some really interesting work in weird spaces like

1189
01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:32.779 A:middle L:90%
tumbler where I'm losing the historians name. He is

1190
01:09:32.779 --> 01:09:35.750 A:middle L:90%
working on, he's an art historian, so he

1191
01:09:35.750 --> 01:09:41.300 A:middle L:90%
is posting on tumbler an artifact and his analysis.

1192
01:09:41.310 --> 01:09:43.979 A:middle L:90%
So it's like a piece every couple of days and

1193
01:09:43.979 --> 01:09:45.270 A:middle L:90%
that's a really neat space. And some of the

1194
01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:48.489 A:middle L:90%
dissertation blogs that are happening. Um, and in

1195
01:09:48.489 --> 01:09:51.210 A:middle L:90%
the sciences there's like open science notebook, um,

1196
01:09:51.210 --> 01:09:55.979 A:middle L:90%
sort of movement, but in the humanities are several

1197
01:09:55.979 --> 01:10:00.479 A:middle L:90%
different like, Wordpress type blogs that are documenting the

1198
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:02.210 A:middle L:90%
process of writing a dissertation or something, which are

1199
01:10:02.210 --> 01:10:04.420 A:middle L:90%
harder I think, than fiction or get hub because

1200
01:10:04.420 --> 01:10:09.079 A:middle L:90%
there's limited track ability for those kinds of things.

1201
01:10:09.090 --> 01:10:12.680 A:middle L:90%
But they're really interesting, odd examples, you know

1202
01:10:12.680 --> 01:10:15.359 A:middle L:90%
, kind of growing up in addition to the more

1203
01:10:15.369 --> 01:10:19.310 A:middle L:90%
sort of stable versions um vendor. Yeah, I

1204
01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:21.970 A:middle L:90%
would, yeah, those are really great examples.

1205
01:10:21.979 --> 01:10:25.310 A:middle L:90%
I would also say that reminds me that sort of

1206
01:10:25.319 --> 01:10:30.300 A:middle L:90%
connects that concept of say we're working through your dissertation

1207
01:10:30.300 --> 01:10:33.579 A:middle L:90%
on a blog or putting up art artifacts on tumbler

1208
01:10:33.579 --> 01:10:36.369 A:middle L:90%
and sort of doing some analysis out there on tumbler

1209
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:41.079 A:middle L:90%
reminds me that there's sort of an effort going on

1210
01:10:41.090 --> 01:10:43.369 A:middle L:90%
a little bit of a movement and say, just

1211
01:10:43.369 --> 01:10:46.119 A:middle L:90%
in the undergrad world of helping undergrads get to get

1212
01:10:46.130 --> 01:10:48.930 A:middle L:90%
pulled together sort of e corp folios, right?

1213
01:10:48.939 --> 01:10:53.430 A:middle L:90%
And starting to document all of the work that they

1214
01:10:53.430 --> 01:10:57.079 A:middle L:90%
have this time in the underground education as well,

1215
01:10:57.159 --> 01:11:00.020 A:middle L:90%
where they're starting to get in the mindset, or

1216
01:11:00.020 --> 01:11:01.489 A:middle L:90%
at least I don't know if this is more universal

1217
01:11:01.489 --> 01:11:03.539 A:middle L:90%
that I know. At the University of Michigan Library

1218
01:11:03.550 --> 01:11:08.479 A:middle L:90%
, we have an initiative to help train our undergrad

1219
01:11:08.859 --> 01:11:13.250 A:middle L:90%
uh huh, to build their build successful e portfolios

1220
01:11:13.250 --> 01:11:15.859 A:middle L:90%
that as they're going through their underground education and they're

1221
01:11:15.859 --> 01:11:19.189 A:middle L:90%
building up skills and doing projects their their aggregated all

1222
01:11:19.189 --> 01:11:23.380 A:middle L:90%
in one place and getting this sort of literacy um

1223
01:11:23.859 --> 01:11:27.279 A:middle L:90%
around that. And and it strikes me that there's

1224
01:11:27.279 --> 01:11:30.329 A:middle L:90%
a connection there that could be made uh the undergrad

1225
01:11:30.329 --> 01:11:31.819 A:middle L:90%
level, right? You think about like a faculty

1226
01:11:31.819 --> 01:11:35.359 A:middle L:90%
member of the public, however, a distributor going

1227
01:11:35.369 --> 01:11:39.390 A:middle L:90%
through that, but it's been it could start even

1228
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:42.779 A:middle L:90%
earlier, right? Yeah. It already has started

1229
01:11:42.779 --> 01:11:44.430 A:middle L:90%
, I think. And this is where there's a

1230
01:11:44.430 --> 01:11:46.819 A:middle L:90%
lot of pockets of, um, different little communities

1231
01:11:46.819 --> 01:11:49.890 A:middle L:90%
of practice at all stages that are formal and informal

1232
01:11:49.890 --> 01:11:53.449 A:middle L:90%
, researchers are formal and informal scholars that are doing

1233
01:11:53.460 --> 01:11:55.829 A:middle L:90%
really interesting things right now on the web. So

1234
01:11:55.829 --> 01:11:58.340 A:middle L:90%
it's also just kind of uh, finding those and

1235
01:11:58.340 --> 01:12:00.350 A:middle L:90%
looking at those models. And I'm not looking a

1236
01:12:00.350 --> 01:12:02.439 A:middle L:90%
little bit outside of maybe your discipline to you to

1237
01:12:02.449 --> 01:12:05.210 A:middle L:90%
find some of that stuff. So yeah, I

1238
01:12:05.210 --> 01:12:10.529 A:middle L:90%
totally agree. I think it may it may be

1239
01:12:10.529 --> 01:12:13.470 A:middle L:90%
important if you're looking at maybe the workflow, the

1240
01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:17.130 A:middle L:90%
process of how some of these articles or research gets

1241
01:12:17.130 --> 01:12:20.119 A:middle L:90%
published, saying, for instance, and institutional repository

1242
01:12:20.130 --> 01:12:23.579 A:middle L:90%
, that the library has taken a very active role

1243
01:12:23.579 --> 01:12:28.560 A:middle L:90%
in that entire workflow. And especially this department are

1244
01:12:28.760 --> 01:12:31.880 A:middle L:90%
the Center for Digital Resource Research and Scholarship has a

1245
01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:38.149 A:middle L:90%
long history of taking taking an active role in getting

1246
01:12:38.149 --> 01:12:41.390 A:middle L:90%
someone's research and making it available online ads, for

1247
01:12:41.390 --> 01:12:45.130 A:middle L:90%
instance, and for for graduate students. And then

1248
01:12:45.140 --> 01:12:47.380 A:middle L:90%
for professors, E K G B itself was of

1249
01:12:47.380 --> 01:12:50.550 A:middle L:90%
course part of DR Fox Research in Computer science.

1250
01:12:50.550 --> 01:12:54.689 A:middle L:90%
So I myself worked with lots of computer science students

1251
01:12:54.689 --> 01:12:58.260 A:middle L:90%
over the years into mm and helping them to understand

1252
01:12:58.260 --> 01:13:00.760 A:middle L:90%
because they're building citation, for instance, maybe a

1253
01:13:00.770 --> 01:13:03.369 A:middle L:90%
tool that will take citations and find all metrics in

1254
01:13:03.369 --> 01:13:06.470 A:middle L:90%
itself to show other people how often something has been

1255
01:13:06.470 --> 01:13:11.000 A:middle L:90%
sighted. Well, they're very interested in how to

1256
01:13:11.010 --> 01:13:15.189 A:middle L:90%
get that original products so that they can mind and

1257
01:13:15.199 --> 01:13:16.640 A:middle L:90%
link those citations together. And now we've all seen

1258
01:13:16.640 --> 01:13:21.289 A:middle L:90%
these cyber like various tools that are available. So

1259
01:13:21.300 --> 01:13:24.380 A:middle L:90%
that process, the library has been very active.

1260
01:13:25.649 --> 01:13:29.050 A:middle L:90%
So I think you can just contact my director,

1261
01:13:29.060 --> 01:13:31.350 A:middle L:90%
Bill Macmillan. Yeah, it's Gilly has been very

1262
01:13:31.350 --> 01:13:34.310 A:middle L:90%
actively involved in that for years. That workflow is

1263
01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:42.130 A:middle L:90%
making things available on making research about. I think

1264
01:13:42.130 --> 01:13:44.220 A:middle L:90%
a big part of the challenge of this is that

1265
01:13:44.220 --> 01:13:47.250 A:middle L:90%
we want to wait until this stuff is stable and

1266
01:13:47.250 --> 01:13:49.569 A:middle L:90%
it's not gonna be stable for quite a while,

1267
01:13:49.569 --> 01:13:54.050 A:middle L:90%
I think. And so that's not the attitude I'm

1268
01:13:54.050 --> 01:13:55.970 A:middle L:90%
trying to take and I think I'm trying to think

1269
01:13:55.970 --> 01:13:58.270 A:middle L:90%
we're both there and I'm trying to foster and our

1270
01:13:58.270 --> 01:14:00.710 A:middle L:90%
library is just to start playing around with this a

1271
01:14:00.710 --> 01:14:02.840 A:middle L:90%
little bit. If there are some low risk things

1272
01:14:02.840 --> 01:14:06.140 A:middle L:90%
that we can do um to build some pilots out

1273
01:14:06.149 --> 01:14:10.489 A:middle L:90%
at the same time that were um trying to better

1274
01:14:10.489 --> 01:14:14.680 A:middle L:90%
understand and engage with our community. Um Specifically then

1275
01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:16.329 A:middle L:90%
I think that that will be valuable and figuring out

1276
01:14:16.329 --> 01:14:19.590 A:middle L:90%
how to share that with other libraries or other institutions

1277
01:14:19.590 --> 01:14:20.880 A:middle L:90%
, I think that that will be valuable to the

1278
01:14:20.880 --> 01:14:24.899 A:middle L:90%
whole process. Um So so that's a it's a

1279
01:14:24.899 --> 01:14:28.260 A:middle L:90%
big its desire to kind of hesitate, hesitate.

1280
01:14:28.270 --> 01:14:30.569 A:middle L:90%
Um Wait a little bit. But I think that

1281
01:14:30.569 --> 01:14:31.630 A:middle L:90%
actually now is a good time for all of us

1282
01:14:31.630 --> 01:14:33.420 A:middle L:90%
to start just playing around with us a little bit

1283
01:14:33.420 --> 01:14:35.939 A:middle L:90%
more if we have um if we can do something

1284
01:14:35.939 --> 01:14:38.949 A:middle L:90%
that's lightweight enough, that's not a huge burden on

1285
01:14:38.949 --> 01:14:41.829 A:middle L:90%
all of us um and we can do some really

1286
01:14:41.829 --> 01:14:44.869 A:middle L:90%
interesting things to push this along and to really figure

1287
01:14:44.869 --> 01:14:45.800 A:middle L:90%
out what's working and what's not working and ask some

1288
01:14:45.800 --> 01:14:47.949 A:middle L:90%
of those hard questions and maybe get a couple of

1289
01:14:47.949 --> 01:14:55.890 A:middle L:90%
answers to those hard questions. Mhm. Well thank

1290
01:14:55.890 --> 01:14:57.630 A:middle L:90%
you so much, Emily and Sarah, I really

1291
01:14:57.630 --> 01:15:00.520 A:middle L:90%
appreciate you taking time to chat with us. And

1292
01:15:00.529 --> 01:15:02.460 A:middle L:90%
it's interesting because it's at least for me there's all

1293
01:15:02.460 --> 01:15:06.010 A:middle L:90%
of these um overlaps and metrics and open access and

1294
01:15:06.010 --> 01:15:09.699 A:middle L:90%
sort of data curation, data management. So I'm

1295
01:15:09.699 --> 01:15:12.489 A:middle L:90%
really fascinated to see like what those next steps will

1296
01:15:12.489 --> 01:15:14.270 A:middle L:90%
be. You know, thank you so much for

1297
01:15:14.270 --> 01:15:17.170 A:middle L:90%
joining us. Thank you.