Women and Gender in international development at the Office of
International Research Education development. So we host a women
and gender discussion series uh once a month we have
a speaker. Uh so we're happy you can join
us is the second one of the semester. We're
also happy that those of you from the Northern Virginia
campus on webex. We're want to start by reading
a brief statement. And that is, we would
like to acknowledge that this event is being held on
the traditional lands of the tutello and Moroccan people who
are the original custodians of this land. Um okay
, so we have a sign up sheet. I
saw a lot of people signing up in the back
. Please be sure you sign up. It's really
important to us to know. You can add your
email and check if you want to be on our
listener. You don't have to, if you're already
on it, just check that you're already on it
. Um and we'll be passing that around as well
. It will be in the back, but it
will also come around so please do fill that up
. Yeah, If you're on the list of what
you get is announcements of our monthly events. We
don't send other things out unless it's specifically the intersection
of gender, international and development. People. Tell
me several times, they said the international doesn't go
out. Gender domestic doesn't go out. Okay,
so you won't get spammed. Okay, so if
you want to know about these discussions, please go
ahead and sign up. Uh, so I wanted
to say, we have a unexpected speaker next week
. We have a person from Syria who was invited
to come to Virginia Tech and she will be speaking
on the state of women in Syria, Past,
present and Future. So that's not part of our
monthly once a month discussion. But she will be
speaking next thursday at org. It's just across the
prices for is on the corner has Big international on
the front is where the study abroad? Have you
going to study abroad stuff? That's where that is
. It's on our website and I'm not going to
report on sex. Okay, so her name is
China Alibaba. All right then. The next regular
presenter is a colleague of mine from Guatemala, whose
international conservation expert he will present on April 20 and
this talk will be called biodiversity, conservation, project
planning and gender experiences from the field. Alright,
this presentation will last about 40 minutes and we'll have
10 minutes for question and answer discussion. And then
we also have the room a little bit longer so
people want to come up and speak with Dr Simon
can still do that. So let me give you
a brief introduction to doctors. First of all,
he's our first international speaker. He traveled many,
many miles long flies to come from West Africa via
means of Portugal. Then he goes back to Uganda
. So we're keeping him out for like a month
. So doctor about americans who was born and raised
in a farming family in uh danno in the southwest
region of Burkina Faso in West Africa. He currently
works as an independent research consultant based in Burkina Faso
. After having worked with several international development organizations including
the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation where he worked in
the Access and Market Systems team of the Agricultural Development
Program on gender and socio cultural issues. He also
worked as a senior gender senior regional gender adviser at
the UN's World Food Program for the West and Central
Africa region. Prior to this position, he was
the gender adviser for the World Food Programme in Rome
. His most recent assignments include the exploration of the
economic impact and women's roles in the poultry, smallholder
poultry raising and nutrition in Burkina Faso, drafting a
gender strategy for the World Food Programme's Western Central Africa
region and assessing local governance and adaptation to climate change
among pastoralists in Southeast Burkina Faso. So here's dr
Sanjay. Please welcome him and thank you. Okay
, thank you. It is always very difficult for
me to. This is the presentation. Okay,
so I'm glad I'm here and I'm glad you can
see me because those don't see me when they receive
and give me the thing I'm a woman. Yeah
. When you know about America and I received Midway
the study, jeremy sees Catamarca because the thing is
remember should be dealing with general issues, so I
always like it and achieve those people. Okay,
so today we'll talk about deconstructing the whole notion of
agenda in order to how to make inclusive and equitable
development and this. I draw a draw the from
my experience working in international development and based in africa
. What I'll do first will be to give my
impressions on what are called the state of gender or
in the field of development. Then what I call
looking behind the defense of gender to understand better and
also interrogate on the reason why we should we should
bother about gender before suggesting some paths or pathways two
Including gender equitably. And again this is drawn from
the experience that we have in the field and then
we'll use the example to support on this. So
I was very happy to see this court that were
from the U. N. The gender and development
approach Signals three departures from women in development. First
, the focus shifts from women to gender and the
unequal power relations between women and men. 2nd,
all social, political and economic structures and development are
re examined from the perspective of gender differentials. And
third it is recognized that achieving gender equality requires transformative
change. This was drawn from the UN World survey
on women In 1999 but it's also current. It
sounds of topical today. So in the development world
and development field, everybody talks about integrating gender and
everybody talks about doing it. Everybody does it.
But the results are not always what they spent.
They often get mitigated results. And one question that
I wanted to ask is why that. And what
I observed in the field was that there is a
lack of coherence in the understanding of what we mean
by gender. And like as I like saying sometimes
when we talk about gender, even without doing an
analysis, we start counting remain and we could stand
spending time counting the man and even miss the substance
that those men that were counting get into the program
that they're involved. So we also noticed that stuff
at the field level are not always qualified. And
most of the time it's gonna be funny. What
I see is that the focal the jennifer people are
most of the time the youngest women in the team
that that it points at the identified person without prior
training of prior guidance. They just take care of
it. And you know, somebody Bostick says because
probably the donor has requested that. So the gender
analysis, as uh we noticed is not always carried
off and some issues about gender are assumed they are
not, you know, the other found out based
on clear analysis. So what we decide to suggest
is that we try to understand, I mean to
break down the hole notion of gender and look behind
the face of gender, what we mean by doing
so what I have here, I probably asked real
lisa and two other people in the room not to
participate in this little crazy test. How many people
do you have? Do you see on this uh
behind the fence here? What you see? What
one person good now why don't we go behind the
fence and look closely? Mhm. So it wasn't
one person. There were one of the more than
one person. However, we could only see the
tallest person. Okay. So what this means is
that the top person and the less tall ones have
different realities. They have different realities, different capabilities
and capacities and probably different needs and priorities. Now
if you don't analyze to know that it's not just
one person and if you have to devote resources,
what do you do? The resource or the amount
of resources we devote will be for one person instead
of those that you don't see automatically. That's one
of the reason why gender analysis is very important because
from what we see in this uh behind the defense
here, we see that tall person and somebody who
looks a little bit like a disabled person, somebody
who's kenya, a woman or a child, a
man. So the different needs are different. Although
there is a community somewhere congregating somewhere converting somewhere,
but depending on these positions, access to resource is
not the same or control to resource is not the
same. That's why we need a clear analysis of
gender. So the gender approach is needed and when
uh, you know, it's not just about equality
because if we put the resources at the same level
to those three people in the first line, I
mean the previous uh slide, I'm not sure that
we could have still seen the shortest people. So
you intervene based on the knees in order to allow
most people, all of them to have, you
know, uh relatively equitable access. So when you
do that, when we do such an analysis,
what we gain, either we capture a category of
the context, a good idea of the context which
allows us to take into consideration the vulnerabilities or the
very vulnerabilities and inequities that exist. And then it
allows a more equitable and meaningful impact at the end
of the day. So all in all this results
in also better reporting. Because sometimes because of the
lack of analysis prior to starting the project, we
end up achieving results that may not have been foreseen
in the indicators at the beginning and then for if
it is and it's a beautiful comes that person will
talk about unexpected results. Yeah, they were they
were accidental. Although those are issues might have been
relevant design level, but we're not technically consideration.
So it's clear that with all this we shouldn't even
we don't even need to ask the question why bother
about gender because it's clear that we need to take
care of gender because a large number of actors are
invisible without the analysis and unconsciously unconsciously. For example
if we talk about agriculture where I most of my
work is focused when people talk about agriculture, they
tend to forget about women except when they want to
think about labor. So it looks like the women
are the the labor providers and I went to a
field somewhere where after the the filled the impression I
had and the confirmation through interviews and interacting with people
in the field was that women farm but they are
not farmers. So men were the farmers but women
were like you know they contribute to help for the
farming activities. So if you have this uh unconscious
perception it results negatively somewhere because we know the role
, the important role that women play, especially us
in some household that may be led by women.
And when a woman leaves a household, it means
that the challenges she has two get results may not
necessarily be the same as those of men. And
it's good to have a clear idea about all this
. And of course there can be uh this can
influence negatively on the performance of agricultural agent. For
example, if we are not, we don't have
a clear idea. And it's not surprising most of
the time to go to meetings where you see that
they invited the man and they forget about the women
. It's not and it's interesting. It's in all
good faith that the women were forgotten on the assumption
that when the men go home, they would tell
them. However, if we're talking about extension,
uh, or techniques, agricultural techniques or application of
those techniques, it is always better to have a
first hand communication. Not a second hand, especially
as we know that from observation that most of the
time in the farm, women apply more hugely the
the rules of the guidance. So I said that
it's not just about counting. Women are talking about
women when we talk about gender. I said it
and repeated, uh, generally larger than this.
There are other markers either of identity and age and
uh, what their social socioeconomic status now. White
. Do I focus mostly on women or why do
we usually focus on women? I want to make
it clear that I'm not making a contradiction. I
say that generally is not just women. However,
the reality is that historically more inequities have been applied
on women, which makes it that they are not
just historical but perpetrated even now. So that women
most of the time, especially in the agricultural domain
and many other domains, they tend to be at
the lower level of the equity scale. Now,
what is important is that or the reason why I
insist here either don't just assume. We cannot just
assume that if you know the the imbalance is against
women naturally. If this is the reality. However
, if you if you do an analysis you will
understand better why they, you know, the subtleties
that are underpinning these investments and uh this helps a
lot in project implementation. So based on my little
experience, I have felt of sharing uh some steps
or some approaches that we use to integrating gender in
the program we've done and you know, I work
in development as well as monetary in. Thank you
. So from concept note to life improved here is
uh we see a photo of women with rice and
a little notebook somewhere. Don't pass somewhere. This
hide, you know, the the arrow here hides
a lot of the site of the other aspect of
the cycle of the project. We see the beginning
, which is the note pad and the end with
the people, the women with the rice. So
if you're thinking of designing the program or a project
to improve food production, to improve food security or
to improve agricultural incomes, you have to think of
how you can integrate everybody from the beginning and thinking
about this allows you or forces you to also think
about the roadblocks the challenges that may not help you
to get there. And if you think about those
challenges and you start acting on them, you will
help you not only to have a better results,
I would say. And also in the design of
the indicators you have more realistic indicators rather than developing
indicators just to please the donner. This is some
problem too because most of the time the donors have
requirement and you have you know the grantees want to
satisfy the requirement and there is a fool and push
somewhere and at the end of the the dollar doesn't
feel that happy because the gravity did not was not
that bold to say that this has been the reality
of the country at the beginning. So yes,
from design to implementation implementation monitoring evaluation, we have
to be very careful, especially when it's a big
grant and the evaluation is external. So what I
think is that we can define dimension of empowerment and
of course the US that have done a great job
about uh dimension of uh women and employment agriculture,
even if I think that the indicators there are huge
and that if you want to apply some to apply
them is not always realistic to all of them.
You can pick some of them and apply otherwise.
It's not it's not realistic, especially as farmers have
the construct of time and project people also have the
consent of stuff and time and resources. Yeah,
and again, I think being uh honest and bold
and stating the reason why you're making such or such
a choice is always better. Probably, you know
, it also shows personality and I'm saying this also
as a person, as a person has, you
know, who was sitting in some rooms and board
and making grants. Yeah. So you can think
of three dimensions and one is the social empowerment and
in this, depending on the challenges are the issue
that the assessment help you to understand. You could
choose and put whatever aspect you think. But one
thing is uh the development of self confidence most of
the time, because in at least in the area
where I interviewed a lot, but the public,
I mean, women do not usually intervene a lot
in public. So if you want to we can
push this. I mean, it's not, you
know, it's not just cultured people like saying that
the culture that is like that, it's not the
culture, it's the lack of habit. So if
we push a little bit without forcing and respecting of
course the cultural realities they could, you know,
we could empower them with some leadership skills and self
confidence that will help. We could also focus on
the economic dimension of empowerment to see how we can
access uh markets. And for example, when I
was at the World Food Programme, one of the
efforts of the program, if we're working was to
connect farmers with buyers, including World Food Program,
that is a huge buyer. So farmer groups were
, you know, the contract uh says with WSB
or through other, you know, at some providers
, another one could be capacity building. We we
know that most of the best way we work there
is a problem of capacity. And I were talking
about the dude little to lack of qualification of gender
focal people. I remember I went to the DRC
in GoMA and I saw this young woman who was
the gender focal person. She had no clue of
what she should do, but she was supposed to
report to her boss, they just told her you
are the, you are the jennifer person. So
when you get there, she doesn't know what to
say. She is a little bit embarrassed because she
wasn't equipped with the minimum tools to do the work
for which he was supported. And by the way
, it's never a full time job. It's another
, it's an addition to whatever you were doing.
Yeah. So you see this these different dimension,
architect connected. They are not, you know,
they don't stay by themselves. So if you act
on the social aspect, it could influence the economic
aspect that at the same time, I mean it's
, you can Sprinkle and the capacity is the capacity
is such as in business training, they could use
some of the crops or they could use that training
or that those skills to improve their economic generational activities
. I mean uh intergenerational activities and here we are
the alco here towards the improvement of women's situation which
can result in empowerment. So I am using this
uh diagram to just, it's not something that happened
. But I got this from a conversation last last
week during a meeting where we had in Portugal,
we were talking about a researcher who did a group
of researchers who created a full kit, uh solid
quality death kit or toolkit. And we were very
excited about it, especially from Saharan countries like ourselves
were destroyed so poor. He thought it would be
really good tool to test the sort and guided farmers
to use it and improve their production. Now somebody
in the room asked the there is one of the
researcher so what is the state of adoption of the
tool case? And he took a brief moment and
said actually we didn't think about, okay. Which
I like, okay. Not that I don't I
don't like the father didn't think about it, but
you will see here like that. However, and
by the way we were talking about social issues and
the whole work that is being done. So in
the room many people were saying, oh no we
don't have skills in social science and I said you
don't need to be trained to help the skill before
you do those things anything you do anything you do
in life at the end of the day. It
is how does it impact society? Anything we do
? Anything you create, you don't created just for
the sake of creating it. Maybe it could be
a hobby at the beginning, But when you get
to such a level you want, you know it
you'll self society or the community in which you are
. So I took this example and said that we
could look at the gender dimension of this tool case
and forget anything in the middle. Just see the
salt circuit and the end at the end we see
men and women and helpful Bennett benefit. So now
the process in the middle, if the soil is
used well and efficiently, it will guide farmers,
you know, in the car six of their stores
, which would allow to use their seats in a
very rational manner and effective minor, which would result
, I believe very optimistic. Richard is that in
food, uh, increased food production and when food
is available for the family nutrition and for household food
consumption, it is likely that they could have a
surplus to sell which will give them income and wants
to have income. You can use the income to
improve health and nutrition and even uh expand the opportunity
or the options for household foods. And finally,
all these results in a better situation of the household
. I mean the men, the women, the
Children, I mean the household. So this is
a very quick gender analysis that I made of this
target. I am not sure that the guy who
said that he did not think about it. He
wasn't there wasn't being me. He really didn't think
about it and he's not alone. And that's why
I say I liked the answer. And it does
not take it. Do not take two minutes for
me to detect this. And I'm not sure that
the lady that I saw who was appointed would have
done this analysis here. However, unfortunately, it
is a fact. At least this is my impression
in the in the field. People believe that,
you know, it's gender. Just do it and
count the number of women. That's it. Okay
. They don't they don't tell me this, but
this is just an impression. So some examples that
I've seen in the course of her work, like
especially at the World Food Program and get the Gates
Foundation, we try to do gender analysis first,
and I still believe that a bad gender analysis embedded
in them. Yes, I think it gives you
an idea, and the good thing is that if
you don't understand some aspects, it forces you to
pay attention to those aspects. And a case that
I saw in DRC again in Congo was, you
know, intervening to improve gender equity equality and most
of the time because we we know or we think
that man in this homogeneous uh uh homogeneous masculine context
, always benefit compared to women. We assume that
in the refugee camp the girls are more vulnerable than
the boys in this case. UNICEF did a study
and realize that the boys were more disempowered than the
girls. Why? Because the boys were socialized in
the communities in the in the families to not doing
certain things. Not looking for, for for for
for would not doing any activity. There were there
were beneficiaries in the natural communities are natural habitat.
If I could say that now with the displacement and
the in the refugee camp, it became difficult because
they have no skills. So they were they needed
more support than the girls. So by four,
an analysis, an intervention could have just gotten there
and start intervening on the on the girls based on
the assumption that women are disadvantaged girls more disadvantaged.
So it's always good to have a to have an
analysis. And again, in Senegal and South Killing
them, we noticed that there was there was a
community where w we were doing a an intervention to
develop assets and developing infrastructure for rice production. And
in the community, there were some people who belonged
to a low caste, well, they don't call
it cast, but it is like that. And
those people normally could not have lands in normal circumstances
. But during the assessment, one of the because
the people who actually saw a person uh an adventure
age who was doing certain things and he looked a
little bit were to them. Because, you know
, in most african places, when you when you
grow your adding more status to yourself, people respect
you more and they couldn't understand why this older guy
would do certain things that case normally should do.
So they asked the question and they understood. So
what they did was to ask the the man if
you would like to have a plot of land,
he was so happy about the prospect. And at
the end of the world he got to you got
to Portland because it an analysis again. What's that
? So in most of the analysis, what we
we see that men control the house of production and
marketing most and women have less access to credit farming
input in general and women produce. I'm paid labor
. And allow me to comment a little bit on
the notion of and play labor in many african context
. It husband you don't understand why you you're talking
about the labor when her his wife works, she
should work. So, you know, and the
problem here is that most of us development into participant
in those contexts. Most of us we buy this
notion unconsciously. Again, we tend to say that's
the norm. That's not, women should work there
. They are not paid fine. But we could
also think another way. We could say, okay
, if they have the labour scheme they have,
they're skeptical provide labor. If we're developing a massive
, how do we push to give them some leverage
? And when this start is have again in mali
this was because it's very difficult for a woman to
get land like this as an individual because, you
know, a woman marries out from her family where
she gets in, she is perceived as a stranger
. And you you become you still remain as a
stranger in terms of similar except when you are unlucky
to become a widow. Yeah. Now what the
program did was to use uh, local leaders and
community leaders, religious leaders to ask them for a
space and space for a group of women and they
got a large space which they were using for their
own productions. And here the women were using a
space for the group where the production, uh,
the harvest from this uh plot belong to everybody.
Now they puzzled the plot to give a portion to
each other. So this was a very good strategy
as what based on the again on the analysis,
on the observation of the problem and also on the
opportunity that can be tapped into. So women as
well like singing and everybody knows just like men,
it's not a more genius girl. This should be
known and agriculture is stronger than that. However,
we do not necessarily do not always acknowledge that.
So this uh what we call uh categories over man
here in Roma who says I'm a smart holder.
This plot of land is mine. Another one who
says I'm not a smallholder farmer because this property belongs
to my husband. So she has no decision making
power on that. The husband decided on this.
So this is another group group of women who are
producers uh traders, cultural products and this I should
uh give credit to where I used to work at
the the program I used to work at the program
. It is a purchase for progress P 40.
So another group of category of women was women participating
in family farming by providing the unpaid labor. So
yeah, these are different categories women producing occasional agricultural
labor. Women producers of small sellers of agricultural products
. So if you are doing an intervention in agriculture
and you do not have an idea to break this
down and intervene based on the different realities, you
may be impacting only one group and it's very likely
that you will be the truth, the one that
is that is the lesser help. Mhm. So
a few lessons have been drawn and mining in women's
hands can be a catalyst of power and voice in
the household. But there could be a catch here
if that resource is love managed skillfully in a way
that gives confidence to the head of household that is
still the man in the room. Yeah. And
this is what we like calling the the main face
most of the time. Most men like to,
they might not have a problem. If they approach
to the woman, they pushed by the woman is
no, I mean if even a route approach by
the woman is not public, so as long as
they face, the main face of uh what is
defined as being a man in the community is not
violated publicly. They can bear certain things. Yeah
and this you know we we drew this out of
the observation and conversation with remain and some really mastered
the skill of negotiations, household negotiations. So you
know when this happened they get more opportunity to the
main resource which is land context. So rural man
, I'm not necessarily against mass empowerment. This is
an observation, as long as they understand that women's
empowerment does not mean meant is empowerment. So there
is a concern there again that I want to make
sure that you know when my wife is empowered,
I am not disempowered and here is not necessarily an
issue of uh control is an issue of making sure
for example that the benefits I shit or that he
the man or the man still benefit from the from
the human uh economic empowerment for example. And here
is a case. I did research on the economic
part of chicken growing, traditional chicken farming. And
it came out that many women were successful partly because
they brought the husband to understand that whatever the game
was for the, you know, the benefit of
everybody. And when you have such a biden by
the the made by the husband, the the pursuit
of the intervention of the special of the activity is
guaranteed and the first defender becomes the husband. So
well, because I've talked about the main phase,
we need to be culturally sensitive in the approach women
empowerment, if we hope to really achieve sustainable goals
regarding gender equity and and equality. We also,
I also talked about the indicators. At some point
we have to bear in mind that we should be
realistic indicators and not overburden the staff. Sometimes,
sometimes I don't know why they are collecting some indicators
. They're just collecting and storing them, but they
don't know why. So let's be realistic and plan
in a way that whatever indicator we're collecting it is
for a purpose of measuring what we say we're going
to do. Mhm. And I'm sorry, no
matter what you do and how you do it do
no harm. Yes. I wish they were the
final uh like it's not Yeah, it's not because
in the implementation of development work that I am familiar
with. one thing I noticed is that we do
not, our sexuality is not addressed and you look
like there is an assumption that the programs are operating
in, you know, a it through a social
context and that sexuality does not is irrelevant whatever is
being done. And I'm sure that, okay,
I even heard some people say that we are hungry
. We want to stop our hunger first before talking
about this. Yeah. So again, I am
not condemning the fact that it's not addressed. I'm
saying that probably it is to respect the do no
harm approach and also two go along the the cultural
context of places where some tax are not very open
yet. Thank you. Mhm. Actually, we
have 10 most precious you moderate your own questions.
Yeah. So I'll be very happy to take any
comment. Question Yes provision. Um one person that
I had was with regards to measuring within success in
agriculture and whether or not they're producing up to their
capacity or abilities. Is that it also the inheritance
cycle measuring humans participation. It's just money is just
profit and a lot of smallholder farmers, I think
is kind of when before important for the nutritional.
So then you don't measure health. Mhm. You
don't take their food market, take this week's market
, you don't get much money. So how is
that incorporated into your program and also to your last
life? It's kind of an unusual question, but
I kind of pushed back a bit with the need
to include everything in every situation. Right? How
is that going to evidence? So, but if
it is how it's a difficult question, but it's
something that Mhm. Very good. Thank you very
much. I'll start with the last question. Mhm
. I don't know that the answer and I would
not say that. It is not just, I
don't know, but I won't say it's not because
if probably if we have uh some people who feel
or who leave the situation, they could feel that
either they are included or excluded, depending on,
on the groups. So, uh, you're right
. It's a difficult question and that's what I said
in the slide, uh, what they will say
and you answered, you repeated it. I will
say in that it's not relevant here. But the
answer to your question, I don't really know the
process. That's true. That's true. Bringing into
the organization. What is that? That is Yeah
, that's a good point. And it's actually,
I'm raising this because, you know, most of
the funds that go in go in in places where
these attacked publicly too. So, you know,
I'm raising it to attract the attention on the fact
that there is a power relationship here that should be
considered. Oh, that needs to be considered.
Let me not forget your first question. You are
. So right. Most of the time, what
the measure is the income and by the way,
they cannot even trace it very well. And it's
not family. Don't just put an emphasis on the
nutrition. They also put an emphasis on the food
security and for many families, especially if you're talking
about women for a woman when her kids have eaten
that she achieved all of her goals. Unfortunately,
it's not always measured in terms of how do you
say in terms of for figures? I did.
Uh I was part of uh an evaluation team recently
where this question were asked and they asked, do
you okay, have you improved your your access to
food over the past 12 months? Over the past
six months? So it's not probably probably not perfect
yet. But you know, people have apparently realized
that these are the questions about the non monetary benefits
need to be addressed. And by the way it's
not just those, there are also what are called
the negotiation opportunities because ask some that or aspect of
the harmony we can see in the family can depend
on if the member of the family have eaten and
if the mayor in the house for example have done
enough effort has contributed enough so that you know food
is assured, then he will get more studies and
more respect within the household. So these are subtleties
that are not always captured. Yes. Um First
, thank you for the presentation. You seem to
be focused a lot on and permanent women through economic
growth. Is that the only motivation behind this?
Just increasing growth in that area through movies, empowerment
? Or is the motivation itself simply women's empowerment and
equality. And so is there any other method other
than economic growth? They couldn't Okay, I don't
know if economic empowerment and economic growth are synonymous to
child. I don't know. But I was talking
about economic empowerment and in the in what I call
the dimension of empowerment, I did not just take
economic aspect. Also talked about the social aspect.
I talked about the capacity building and they are interrelated
. It's not just the economic but at the first
uh you didn't see your name? So. Yeah
. Yeah. She said. Mhm. You know
when we talk about the economy or the economic aspect
, there is an assumption that the production has been
positive and there is the assumption that from there you
can sell and once you have the money you have
more options in the use of that production. You
can even diversify the consumption within the household and at
the same time it can increase the social capital and
in other capitals as well. So it could be
a starting point. But it's not the point.
It's not the only point. But it can be
the most of the work. I'm involved in.
Focus a lot on those. That's probably why you
have the impression that I'm just telling that. Thank
you. Everything was so clear. Okay, I'm
going to ask the question people. So you introduce
yourself as you know, you're not mrs Catamarca.
Okay, so obviously you face this challenge of being
a man in a gender field that people assume is
women's issues and women's responsibility. Even if it's an
uneducated young woman who You know, you want to
check off the box. Yes Gates Foundation. We
integrate gender here. We just hired this 18 year
old to take care of gender. Now they're gonna
count heads. So what's the issue for you?
How do people receive you as a male gender expert
? I hate the word expert. We're not special
person interested in promoting gender equality. Okay. I'm
lucky enough I enjoy being in this position and yeah
, I do. And most of the times when
they see me we laugh a lot because they expected
to see a woman and then come here a black
male. So yeah, we we and then after
conversations that they confessed that, you know, I
also thought were women, it's not a big and
this is at the level of staff, for example
, now at the level of the people I work
with the farmers, we women, most of the
time I would go with a female assistance and we
start the conversation and because I, you know,
but the whole motivation of me getting into the general
world is because I grew up in this family and
I saw what my mother used to do and I
know that it's real, it's not a theory,
it's real. I do it, I do it
with passion and when I talked with these people,
I mean the farmers sometimes they try to use what
I call it, the development gymnastics to tell me
what the thing I'm interested in and I tell them
no, come back, please, you cannot seek
electric me. And they realized that I was not
just passing by to check about to take a bus
and go on and then it creates a kind of
uh I will see a connection because they know that
I know the fields and I always say that you
know, I I'm a farmer's child and I even
feel like a farmer. So this problem is solved
and women, most women will find that finally we
have a man talking to us talking, talking the
thing that we want to talk about. So to
me it makes me feel very good again. And
I wouldn't say that I I have difficult situations in
my what I do other than the first image that
we laugh at and or like when I was at
the World Food Programme, somebody said Madam Catamarca.
And because the image was in french and whoever understand
french or maybe spanish, you know that the agreement
whether it's feminine of masculine, it can change.
So I responded but I think she did not look
at the the verb. She didn't know that I
didn't double the E. Somewhere and probably she thought
that I did a mistake, I call her and
I said this is tomorrow. Keep who Guatemala but
we laughed and that's it. Mhm. And by
the way at the Gates Foundation are so busy with
my um we've it's spanish background. She said you
west Africans, you treat me every time in my
country. If your name your name as if you
are a woman here you are. You are a
man. Yeah. It always found hilarious and yeah
, enjoy hearing those things. Last question or comment
. You may have some answers the question. Okay
. Hey. Yes. So you gave the example
of how women were given a lot together. Um
So I have inside a nutrition he studied they discuss
how women were given a lot together. They were
more they have a higher chance of being robbed.
Mhm. And being attacked because they were doing so
when you have a a plot with nothing for women
, are they evil teenagers? You know their crops
out are they subjects were forcing something being discriminated against
? No, on the contrary they hadn't status because
first, you know, it is in the community
where everybody knows everybody and they took advantage of this
come plot to give a smaller part of each other
. So it includes the opportunity for, you know
, producing for themselves. Because you should not forget
that they have the common part with their husbands at
home, but that is managed by the but in
this block, whatever comes out of this plot,
is there business? And of course they use the
extra time to work there. I say extra cool
, because there is no extra time. People are
always busy. So that's why you've been good.
So the short answer is no, there there are
rather perceived with respect. And the other women who
are not in groups could see them as, I
mean, could every them because they, you know
, they use their group to access production resources.
Okay. Yeah. So something I didn't say at
the beginning and I want to be sure to say
that I need to thank several entities on campus that
helped us bring dr tomorrow. So one we were
supported by the women and minority artists and scholars lecture
series Africa Studies, Women and gender studies and outreach
and international affairs. So we would have been able
to do without them. And that's partly why I'm
going to ask you after presentation. Thank you for
coming. But please fill out a survey. If
you gave us your emails will send you a link
to a survey. People on Webex that will get
it immediately after this and let us know what you
think. I hate surveys to I get a serious
click. Do you have anything else to say?
No, it was great. So give us just
one sense because we put it together in a report
, it helps us get funny to bring important speaker
, so just take five minutes. Okay? Help
yourselves to bagels and cream cheese, recycling for the
water bottles just outside and thank you doctor. Okay 821 --> A:middle L:90% .