you've been filming all of this? All right.
I'm sorry. I have to keep the camera.
That's okay. I uh, one of the things
I it's important to me is to create an environment
where people feel free to to not edit themselves knowing that
I'm not going to use anything that would that's okay
. So whenever you're ready, just start. Okay
, Well, you've given me some other idea question
. Okay, So that's great. Tell me tell
me who you are and your relationship to the,
to the college. I'm Ray Kass. I came
here in 1976 as a visiting artist in the Department
of Art in the very first year that it had
become part of the College of Arts and Sciences.
Before that it had been in the College of Architecture
and I worked here for a little more than 25
years. I guess teaching painting. I was the
senior painter in the program for a while. My
colleagues were Victor Huggins and Mary Ann harmon who
are both very terrific painters and then eventually Janet new
old Who is also excellent. I think I retired
in 2003 in May and that was the spring semester
before the School of Visual arts, which it was
then called, rejoined the College of Architecture and Urban
Studies. And although for the years that I was
professor at tech, I actually wasn't in the College
of Architecture and Urban Studies. A lot of the
projects that I developed a tech, particularly those of
the mountain like workshop, which is the community based
collaborative art project that I started in 1983 involved architecture
students. And in those days, especially the first
years I taught here, a strong proportion of the
enrollment in the art classes were students from the architectural
program was a lot of mixing and I think that's
in general less now at the university because students seem
to have to declare their major or make important structural
decisions about what program they're going to study in.
And when I came to check, it still resembled
my own undergraduate experiences at Chapel Hill at the University
of north Carolina where you weren't that supervised and the
faculty student ratio was very good. Most classes were
usually opened so you can follow the recommended curriculum or
you can go take a course as a freshman and
medical anthropology. Nobody was looking over your shoulder too
much. You did have the problem after four years
of being sure that you not only had enough credits
, but some of the credits were in the right
area. I think probably the, it wouldn't be
financially feasible to do that today, But at any
rate, it was a really spirited environment. The
College of Architecture at that time, I particularly was
fond of their vision. It was a vision that
was that was fostered really in the late 60's and
shared among several universities but between Dean Bertrand and Olivia
Ferrari and then the other professors in architecture, they
they saw the goals of their curriculum as as to
enhance and encourage the person's creativity. So you had
young people in architecture who were interested in film,
you had Architecture students who were really trying to be
artists like Martin Johnson is a good example of that
. He graduated in 74 2 years before I came
here went to Chapel Hill, which is where I
met him. I gave him a graduate critique.
We've stayed friends and you had people even doing modern
dance and getting architecture degrees. And I think that
that worked in the context of those times where it
doesn't work. Now of course his students want to
carry on advanced study and qualify for graduate programs.
All of that has become very competitive. And your
D. A. R. S. Has to
show the whole panoply of undergraduate preparation in these areas
of specialized study. Yeah. I often find myself
writing very good letters of recommendation for older graduates,
former graduates who want to re instigate there direction in
life in a graduate program at another university. And
they suddenly realized they're not really competitive with the applicants
because the the standards have changed so much well enough
about that. They were wonderful students to work with
art students. And we did a lot of projects
together. The mountain like workshop tended to do collaborations
with artists that would introduce the artists to a new
kind of work. And it did start with John
Cage. And it started in my psychology in 1983
which is mushroom study. I organized a mycological foray
with dr Orson Miller and his wife Hope Miller.
And Orson Miller was very distinguished mike ologists in the
United States. His field book was really the most
popular K generosity Miller had heard of each other by
reputation. John Cage was a co founder of the
new york Mycological Association and or similar certainly knew that
about him. And john had Orson's field books so
that facilitated me being able to work with Cage to
bring him down here for a conference. We did
in my psychology that had a really interesting diversity of
people at it that we did at Mount Lake Hotel
. And it was during that experience that cage made
his first watercolor paintings. We took him to a
site at ripple meet where he loved the rocks.
I'd arranged an exhibition of his work at Squire Student
Union and in that exhibition where a particular suite of
drawings called where R equals real angie that were about
tracing around stones that he would use chance operations to
place on the paper. The number of stones used
were in correspondence with the rock formations in the Rio
and zen dry garden in kyoto that it was a
delicate torrey peace. It was like an homage and
I thought he might enjoy doing something with watercolor with
bigger stones. So we took him to this great
place and he spent an entire day selecting rocks which
we brought to him in new york. Let me
ask you this. I know you're not an architect
. Uh but I'm curious in your opinion, do
you? And just know I cut myself out of
it. So kind of restate your Yeah, that's
too much on john cage. Right. Uh huh
. But I'm curious from your perspective, in your
opinion, that program, the way you're describing it
under Burchard and Ferrari, do you think that produced
better and whatever sense of the word that means better
architects than maybe a program now, that's more focused
on practice. Um the program under Dean Burchard and
you know, with the inspiration of Olivio Ferrari as
sort of the guiding light of the architecture faculty in
that period had its moment. It was a very
important moment and I think that it's almost impossible to
compare that period reasonably with the conditions today because again
, the shifting and changing standards, I do think
that in academic life, um there's a tendency for
it change to take longer than it should. I'm
not using the business world as an ideal model,
but things turn around a lot faster in corporate America
when something's working or not working. I think that
what they were doing attack when I arrived here was
effective and was beneficial to the students and working very
well and they've always had a certain percentage of the
students who pursue real careers in architecture and design as
well as other areas, you know, but I
can't compare it to how things are today because I
think that program has changed as inevitably it would need
to change to correspond not just internal conditions at the
university, but to social conditions it took to the
standards of the profession. I'm aware of him wide
number of very successful graduates. They have, I
was just in London last week visiting with Michael Laviano
who is designing completely designing the hockey stadium for the
olympics. That will be in London. I just
bought a house there now that he's married and settled
down. I mean he's a, he goes back
to the period of my 1988 Mountain Lake Workshops and
was active in most of them at that time,
but he's an architect. Architect. I mean,
Peter Lougheed, who corresponds roughly to that time,
maybe graduates a year later, is Is the project
manager for the Qatar Foundation and the 60 skyscrapers they're
building in Doha. So I get to see him
in London periodically does does Michael, because he's busy
with so many things on, they're both products of
the broader university. So the College of Architecture at
that time was more distributed. But I think the
opportunity to do those things is up to the students
. I used to invite students to participating, week
long critical symposiums or art workshops, collaborative workshops.
And it seems to me they had less trouble in
those days talking to their professors and simply being released
to do this. So we did things that I
think are harder to do, at least informally,
just professor to student in class. A lot of
this was uncredited study. You know, we went
back and forth state like up into new york all
the time. We will be bringing back things back
and forth from my loft. I've always had a
place in new york. So then we visit cage
or we visit Allen Ginsberg or we would, we
would, we'd see I. M. PEI and
he would take us through some shows or stuff like
that. So it's a different kind of university.
That flexibility was there. I think that the students
are very mm curriculum and class centered now it's harder
to pop them out of that situation. Maybe maybe
that's right. I'm not the person to ask.
I only had my experience. That's wonderful. He
said, I mean, I think you're right.
I think it's it's situational and at that time that
was the right way to do it and maybe now
different for better, for worse. It's how it
is. It's the necessity of the yeah, I
felt implicitly encouraged to do these types of extracurricular activities
, like the collaborations of the workshop, because it
seemed to me the university itself was wide open to
inviting different kinds of activities and for the professorial to
undertake different kinds of research. My goal at that
time was to move the idea of the studio art
program away from a quasi recreational activity just about self
expression into something that was implicitly research that had important
parallels with with other, more prestigious research programs at
Virginia Tech. I think that I think a lot
of the things we accomplished over the years, which
usually resulted in exhibitions immediately and then became published events
and providing frankly the basis for other people's scholarship.
I think it was successful at the time. I
would have retired. Most of the projects we were
doing were interdisciplinary with other science disciplines or science disciplines
. Starting as early as Orson Miller with my psychology
. In 83 we did programs in anaerobic microbiology with
Greg Ferry when he was here and we had a
premier program and anaerobic microbiology. We did that with
mary Lederman, Youkilis and she was the official artist
and residents of the new york sanitation department. We
introduced her essentially to mm recumbent DNA study on the
activity of anaerobic microbiology and waste remediation and the global
carbon cycle. Jackie Matisse's projects were done really in
computer science and physics. They were they were in
supercomputing, engineering and virtual reality. So we used
our cave and we produced a piece with her that
was shown all over the world. And he asked
, So you actually you said the whole time you
were here? It was yes school of art was
separate College of Architecture. We were in the College
of Arts and Sciences for that 25 years. Do
you think can you anything you can speak to about
that since this is really about the College of Architecture
? Do you think that? And I certainly hope
so for the sake of the film. Do you
think it's a good thing that it's back in the
College of Architecture? How do you feel at the
outset? I was not sure that it was a
good idea because I wasn't sure that my colleagues in
the art department with the exception of one or two
of them knew very many of the architects are worked
very closely with the faculty and Architecture. I had
worked continuously very closely with them and it's a different
culture and I think they were thinking about it too
much for for advantages that it might have to be
in a more prestigious college. For some reason they
felt won the College of Arts and Sciences was was
too large, too hard to administrate. It became
essentially to colleges after that retrospectively. And uh it's
clear that I think it was a good idea for
the School of Visual Arts to be in the College
of Architecture and Urban Studies. And I think this
has been especially clear that it was a good idea
in light of the Center for Creative Technologies they're developing
, which I'm very happy about. I think that
that's very important. I think that there are other
design disciplines and programs like interior design that are now
in the College of Architecture and Urban Studies and there's
always a friction between these things. I mean I
remember when the architects would call interior design inferior design
, but then half of their working graduates in the
field, we're actually doing interior design because that's where
the money was. And you know, when they
when they weren't designing, they were having from scratch
to learn product and merchandise to deal with doing the
interiors of the buildings that they were working on.
So there are always at each other's throats. Maybe
that's less so now. I mean, I always
admired interior design because as an artist, you can
specialize, for instance in art and interior decoration and
interior design and you're on both pieces of the deal
, you're on both sides of the deal. In
other words, you're getting a commission from the gallery
of the agency that you're buying the painting from and
you're getting paid and you're getting a commission basis from
your client. Well, that's sweet. It was
mostly girls in it, then I would encourage boys
to be on it more, I'd say, you
know, it's like, this is the right way
to be the middleman. And if you're interested in
art, you're interested in the design, you're going
to get to do plenty of that. I haven't
always agreed with their concepts of and color and interior
decoration, formats and things like that. I've always
believed in contrasting situations in an interior, say,
the provost's office or something, right? You you
create an analogous color scheme for formatting certain of the
design elements in the room and then you have change
often they stay within two analogous arrange. But at
least that was the trend back in the late 90s
, but that's two particular, you know, I
think the fact that the students are all in one
college now the ideal thing will be they will cross
pollinating so industrial design and design, architecture, building
construction and interior design and the School of Visual Arts
and well the students will all create a new language
of culture and create a new synergy between themselves.
Like the bauhaus had. I mean people forget that
there was some of the most important programs at the
bauhaus were based were in theater, music based on
the annual masquerade balls and things that they would do
. Got Oscar Schlemmer was in charge of really that
lots of things happened in the bauhaus that were theatrical
. I don't think you can take those things out
of design and stay on a creative path. And
I think that the idea of bringing the the School
of visual arts back in as well as these other
programs was about promoting that kind of synergy perfect.
Now it sounds to me from talking before you have
a very you have an affinity see people's person recalling
people uh in their personalities. And I'm just curious
if you could talk about Ferrari and Burchard and your
interactions with right those people and because my understanding is
they were both fascinating individuals and the stories I've been
getting for everybody really interesting. Well Ferrari was a
charismatic professor, at least when I arrived here,
he was still really fully engaged I think after moving
to Switzerland and all and during that transition period he
became older, changed maybe a little bit. We
were not personal friends, we knew each other and
we admired each other. We had we often shared
students like Laviano and he encouraged students to take my
courses. And he when we first did the Works
with Cage and things, he was in europe and
saw some of the first exhibitions and he was interested
in in work like that as was lucy Ferrari.
She was very important part of things to and there
were a number of them as john holt, he
was tremendous. I was very close to halt.
He built that whole alexandria center. I loved the
fact that he was a two fisted master builder.
You know and Reagan, they were the principles in
those days working around Olivia. So that's it was
a perfect complement. Olivio Ferrari was a perfect complement
to Dean Burchard because Burchard was a political man.
I knew him even less but he could go out
to national meetings and mm forward the cause of the
college of Architecture and being members of national associations and
convening and all that. I think he definitely put
the college on the map. You have a very
wonderful history. There. All their names are escaping
me right now. This wonderful scholarship and their honor
. And I knew both of them who was the
first sort of director of architecture at Tech prior to
prior to virtually hurry. Yes, yes. I
really liked Leonard curry and he was also like Van
Halt and a designer who built things Dennis Gilbert did
that. I mean, I think it's very important
for the students that people make, make things be
what they say they are. They don't all have
to do that because you can be theoretical, but
you can't be too theoretical. I mean, it's
not it's not just an attitude you sort of have
to get dirty with. I brought out in Greenburgh
down here once, who's very conservative, not anti
modernist, but yeah, essentially anti modernist architect.
I think he was a Yale at the time.
They had a little reception for him in the Dean's
office and a faculty member asked him Alan Greenberg if
it was possible in his estimation to be an architect
in theory, without building. And Greenberg just said
, no, that's ridiculous. That was the end
of the reception. Within, within, within one
minute the room was virtually empty. I don't know
why, I'm not reading too much into that.
I thought it was funny, I mean, you
know, he liked, he liked Georgian architecture and
he used examples of it as in England for instance
, as you know, the, the working man
lives in this smaller type of road building house and
the mercantile people live in these bigger houses and then
they're the official buildings and right up to the palace
and he was designing a house at that time that
was based on Mount vernon, but it was four
times the size of Mount vernon. Right. He
believed as I think prince Charles at that time,
believed, I've always admired prince Charles for even putting
his, put his opinion on the line. He's
a watercolor too. So that's another reason. But
he has, you know, he had anti modernist
sentiments about architecture and expressed them for better or worse
, but he is a positive environmentalists. That's good
. Well, I'm not sure that. Mhm.
You know, there's a certain social utility and having
an architecture that brings a society together through kind of
universal format, universal form. But what we have
in America is much more like what Van Tori was
describing. It's more of just a mishmash of all
different things I intend or by I embrace the idea
of an art of a kind of archaeological layering of
form that happens in culture. So when you're in
new york city, your looking at a chinese theater
that's next to the standard roman ized architectural facades.
And then there's a a building that clearly has a
an avant garde modern edge to it, next to
an Egyptian facade on something. And I like the
idea of the languages of all those different cultures being
compounded and built up, layered and put on removed
, changed like the billboards and things that used to
be more ubiquitous in new york, people smoking cigarettes
and blowing smoke out. Yeah, that's the way
ancient world cities are there just built on top of
each other. But we don't have homogeneity. We
we have diversity kind of from the get go and
I think they all find a way to speak to
each other which is remarkable. I think that's the
strength. Yes. Yeah. It's the city as
a place where there is architectural form in evidence becomes
like an exhibition and and theater even to some degree
they interact. I'm guest curating an exhibition for the
Taliban Museum now that I'm calling met um psychosis,
not to be confused with madame psychosis. Met um
psychosis and the citation I'll have on the entry board
is from ulysses where molly bloom is talking to Leopold
bloom and they're having a discussion. And the out
take I'm using is she says matter who and leah
paul says who's really speaking for Stephen Douglas? He
says Madam psychosis and she says who is he when
he's at home. And Leopold bloom says something like
it means the transmigration of souls reincarnation. The exhibition
I'll be doing called Madame psychosis will take about a
six or 700 year range of objects from all different
cultures and all different stylistic idioms. And put them
in an exhibition where my instinct about them is they'll
create relationships. I'll have to write something about each
of the relationships. But you put Albert's next to
Navajo blankets and Yurok and karaoke, indian baskets and
pomo baskets and put those next two helmet masks from
the pen day and West Nigeria and put put those
things next to Enzo paintings from japan, you know
, meditative objects and maybe a real tibetan mandala or
two. I think people will see formalism for me
. I'm also using an Truett and Barnett, Newman
George Berlin and Ad Reinhardt Albers. So mixing them
up with those objects to me will be interesting.
I'm trying to use things that are either promised gifts
or in the permanent collection of the taliban. That's
what I'm charged with. But I'm we're partnering with
the Greg Museum in Raleigh north Carolina, which is
the museum of north Carolina state in their design program
. And between the two places, we have wonderful
selection of objects. So you'll get a Newman blue
zip and you'll get a ralph griffin, an african
american artist whose work was involved with very judo inspired
. Yeah, like root art, black painting and
burned route art and yet metaphysically there's a real kinship
. These things talk together. I mean, I
think norman clearly not, you know, would talk
about its stations of the cross in terms of this
level of minimum reduction has has these connotations, but
certainly not tribal Barnett Newman's case. But it's going
to be interesting mixing up with these cultural artifacts from
five or six continents, outsider art, particularly african
american outsider art. There will be people like howard
finster and things to with hi reductive minimalism, formalism
, which we don't have a lot of. So
I'm going to have to use that as more of
an idea entry. You mentioned you this season,
it just got me thinking this isn't for the film
, this is for me. And perhaps another film
I want to ah I'm very interested and to me
this relates completely to architecture And our anyway, you're
talking about two, I've been I've gotten very interested
in just the idea of a classical education and especially
having kids. It's on my mind, you know
, I assume they didn't have. Yeah and but
there still are people, I don't know if you
were educated that way, but there are still people
you know who worked like educated with the classical education
and I find from my studies and talk people that
architecture and I would imagine art to the same degree
are almost incomprehensible. The concepts the if you don't
have that kind of an education and no one's regular
sees anymore, no one reads that, you know
, like No one Reads The Classics, Nobody.
And I just feel like we're losing our ability to
have this kind of conversation and to understand what came
before us. And I'm just again, this is
for the film. It's for another idea I have
. But do you have any thoughts on that,
the loss of the classical education and how that relates
to? So you feel a classical education? I
didn't have a classical education in any formal way.
Public school did quite a bit of that. You
know, like you would read homer Or you would
read 10nison. So you would become acquainted with King
Arthur and things. It's painful because often the room
would have to read it aloud kid by kid and
you would just get a stomachache as it got nearer
to you. I became very interested in poetry as
a I guess when I was in junior high school
or so and I was a little bit of a
poet then I thought I wanted to be a playwright
and I was interested that you had talked about documentary
work. I was in New York doing sit ins
in 1959 at the Woolworth's. I was and a
little club in high school called the Searchers and we
were proactive in civil rights, which became a much
more serious business when I went down to north Carolina
and became proactive in civil rights. I think that
because of the people I met that determined my reading
. I mean I just reread ulysses and I realized
I was reading a copy of the book I bought
when I was 19 years old and I see notations
and things in it. So I must have read
it or read at it or read most of.
But I have an unnamed student that is working for
me is very much more literary than I was at
that age. I mean I did become editor in
chief of the Carolina quarterly, which is the oldest
university literary magazine. I was the last undergraduate editor
. But that's because my friends were people like William
Matthews and Russell Banks and robert morgan have all won
awards and all kinds of things. Everybody I'm roomed
with Jeff MacNelly. Everybody on my staff became a
famous something. It's like the Bermuda Triangle. Does
that? You know, it seems inexplicable to me
now. But that's what happened. I also got
fired by the north Carolina publications board after the Kerouac
visit just on the rumor that I was going to
publish a piece that he never got organized to send
me on the diamond Sutra which was to pornographic for
barney rosset to publish a Grove Press and I hadn't
even seen the piece. But news like that gets
downtown before you do. And so I was I
was removed although my staff went on to glory,
you get a certain satisfaction out of that. I
think that bob Siegel for instance here is interested in
a book like ulysses and teaching it. And I
really liked bob Siegel and you know we'll have coffee
and he'll talk about the students reading D. H
. Lawrence which they consider now an old literature,
it's too conversational. And I suggested why don't you
teach ulysses but teach it with a student. You
know, let's recruit a capable student, give them
the book and they can read it once or read
it twice, take as long as you want.
That's the way to read it. And then team
teach it With a 20 year old because I think
it's in the case now. It might help to
have read the odyssey, you know, And the
Iliad. But we used to do that in the
7th grade. Not anymore, but that was just
in public school. You know, my parents didn't
finish high school so we'd come home from school and
as long as everything was going all right, there
wasn't even a big inquiry about how we were doing
. My brother and I never had any trouble with
school. I was a real hookey player. Things
that would get caught occasionally at that. Then I'd
have to have the tension and things. The crime
and punishment part of it. So I didn't really
want to go to college. But I went,
the Vietnam war broke out. So I stayed and
then I quit, then I went back and I
quit again and they went back. I don't ever
remember having a discussion when I was an undergraduate about
what we would do professionally after college or about using
college to get a job. It just never happened
. Yeah, I think the university used to be
a university, think, yeah, yeah, you
were supposed to go through a rite of passage,
like a transition in life and get an education.
I major in philosophy and my notions about philosophy were
, oh, probably very, very romantically inclined.
I I didn't get it really. I mean,
it was all post british empiricism, emerging language,
philosophy and things at the time. I had no
interested in that at all, I was much more
interested in a kind of Nietzschean context or dramatic kind
of metaphysics. Dr Falk, who was the head
of the philosophy department, which only had 45 majors
in which I graduated as the anchor person. I
mean, I just barely got through it. I
had to rewrite my paper on day car five times
because I couldn't construct a logical argument. You know
, I kept reading things into the material that wasn't
there, which is a big no, no well
academic practice and academic scholarship. What a PhD in
dissertation represents is a kind of dress rehearsal for how
to treat information facts, material, the proper documentation
of things. It's not supposed to be the only
book you ever right, It's supposed to be the
, you know, the the piece that you write
, the prove to your committee that you can do
it and then you go forth into the world.
I never expected to write anything and the things I
have written were the consequences of the work that I
did in the projects. I mean john Ashbury was
going to write for Morris Graves book originally and then
he became critically ill and at the last minute I
, as curator of the show, had to write
and it was hard. I hadn't written anything since
college. I had to rewrite it five times.
Then I found out the benefits of a copy editor
and I had very good copy editor at that time
, as it did recently for the Cage Book.
But if I didn't do the complete water colors of
john cage, who was going to do it,
you know, addis pointed that out to me.
I thought it was a piece of cake sitting there
for some, I'm going to turn this off because
I think we're good. I got more than what
I needed and we can keep, I don't turn
it off yet. But one of the things you
brought up early is the idea of a documentary approach
to things. I'm a big advocate of that.
I feel fully involved in my own studio practice my
work as an artist. If there's one thing I
learned from the collaborations, it's about paying attention,
paying attention to the work of other artists and especially
to the possibilities that work may have and being adapted
or the sensibility of that work extended to other disciplines
, to other meanings and also to other value systems
and orientations like the standard of values that might be
happening among the post doc students in anaerobic microbiology and
that might be happening in the sociological panoply of consideration
. Someone like Meryl Youkilis makes as the official artist
of the new york sanitation department that creates critical Frisian
. And if if you aren't met with resistance right
at the outset, you're not doing it right.
So you go through the two years of the resistance
and then the somewhat begrudging agreement to try it happens
and then you actually do the workshop, it changes
the culture, it creates a culture, a different
culture. What's been most satisfying for me is how
it affected the post docs and an aerobic microbiology.
They loved it or how how it worked with the
mic Ology doctoral students. You know, that's been
very satisfying. But a documentary approach requires that you
learn about all that first so that you can enact
the project which is open ended, you don't know
what's going to happen, but then after it's happened
you have such a responsibility to that material that it
may seem laconic and uncreative and all, but you
really have to in a responsible way make a record
of that. Not a retelling but a record of
, you know, and I recommended that two students
, I said it's not one of the things that
was very important to cage, which I think I'm
trying to express in this idea of the documentary approaches
. Art is not all about self expression. Sometimes
art, the most creative aspects of art are about
self alteration. He often juxtapose those two terms.
And that means you change your thinking about something and
that leads to the art. So as a filmmaker
, you were interested in that and that's the only
kind of films that we do so far. But
I have no doubt if we keep doing them well
, we'll end up making movies, if the technology
keeps changing, will be able to make movies on
my retirement pension at some point. Sky, you
know, this is a fool's we were going to
shoot up feature length film. This is, yeah
, this is where the yeah, yeah, that's
that's what we would call good enough. Yeah.
Well, I think you're right. I mean,
I think now having, you know, having done
film school and and and I got interested in film
through architect, I was not a kid who wanted
to be a filmmaker. I wasn't really exposed to
film in a way that it was compelling to me
until I was in architecture school. And then it
led me in that direction. And I think,
like I said, you know, I think I
did I had more success initially because I was thinking
like an architect and I think it's the same thing
you're saying. I think the from a pure idea
of what film can be artists making films, architects
making films as much closer that, you know,
Hollywood making, it's a different, it's two different
, completely different uses of the medium and I think
you're absolutely right, and that's something that should be
explored and promoted my experience with making what they call
digital motion capture now is a purpose driven. So
its content driven and it's because of the responsibility I
have to the material, it's like, like my
writing, I I definitely did not plan to do
that. I'm glad that I had a marginal enough
education, a decent enough education to where I could
get started. And I still have to turn all
my sentences around If you don't rewrite what you've written
that day three times, you know, the students
think, oh, I can't do this because it
hasn't worked out, it hasn't worked out the first
time you've just tried to put down what you think
you're thinking. Well, the idea is you read
it over again and you change you, you don't
erase it, you sort of move it around you
often it's just turning the sentences around. I was
quite dyslexic when I when I was a kid and
it can be learned that if you if you do
, if you create material that you will feel a
sense of responsibility toward, you will have to learn
it. So that's why I think a project orientation
is so important to education and you have to come
out of the classroom once in a while. Not
that the classroom can't provide these tasks because you know
, when I was in college we had to write
big papers and all kinds of things and those are
many versions of these tasks. But you can go
out and actually make things in the world yourself and
with other people and then have to properly document thanks
. I'm throughout this is this is perfect. Great
. Got enough. Absolutely. Yeah.