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Okay, good morning and this morning we are very

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pleased to be here with Dr. Roy Morgan in Albuquerque

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New Mexico. Good morning, Roy. Good morning. Well,

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I'd like to begin by asking you could you provide

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an overview of who you are and where you work

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or don't and the primary focus of your work either

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past or present. Sure my name is Roy Morgan

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native New Mexican, I live in Albuquerque, New

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Mexico and I am retired. Um my work career

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in instructional media is long and varied actually. I

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started working part time at the Audiovisual center at New

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Mexico State University when I was an undergrad, working

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for Phil Dillard who was at that point working on

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his doctorate at Indiana University um I had become interested

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in instructional media and technology from, a friend of

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mine who was a high school friend actually Alamogordo high

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school when I was we youngster and he was a

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student at Arizona State in the studying instructional media and

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he used to talk to me about that. He

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was a couple years older than I when he was

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back from college. So when I was an undergrad

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in New Mexico State University, I kind of checked

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out the Audio visual center. Uh later when I

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was a junior or something And met Phil Dillard and

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he actually hired me to work there during two summers

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. Well as it turns out Phil needed to go

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back to Indiana to do his dissertation. So he

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hired me as acting director of the Audio Official Center

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for a year and a half while he was back

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at Indiana. Then I went to Indiana to do

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my doctoral work. And after I finished that,

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then I went to work at the agency for instructional

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technology in bloomington, which is a large nonprofit producer

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distributor of instructional video materials, primarily broadcast television.

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But I was hired as the manager for non broadcast

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materials, which means film and video. And I

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worked there from 1973 until 1988 and then I was

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, did a number of things, but one of

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those that was very enjoyable was as an adjunct faculty

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member at indiana University in the instructional systems technology department

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. And I taught the overview media course which was

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required for all graduate uh students at in the I

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. S. T. Department as well as for

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students in the library science college that we're going through

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uh certification to become a school library. When we

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moved back to New Mexico, I was hired by

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access innovations, which is a local database company.

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I worked at Nice um for 4.5 years and then

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I, because I had become so enamored of the

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uh, computer database field, which was kind of

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adjunct to instructional media and technology. I worked for

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a couple of years for related company here in Albuquerque

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called Essick, which was accompanied that catalogued literature in

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the field of psychology and that was fascinating uh field

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and I worked with the president and ceo of that

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company here in Albuquerque. Um and then I decided

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to retire. So that was kind of the end

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of my career and instructional media and technology remind us

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what does Nice Nice. Um stands for the National

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Information Center for Educational Media. And I can talk

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more about what we did if you like for me

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to. Okay. Um Nice. Um was established

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about 1966 at USC, the University of southern California

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. Um and uh was established as a national and

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later international database of educational media and materials. What

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that means is that they catalogued started out as a

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cooperative catalog, but then later became a catalogue of

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all producers and distributors, um, extent materials that

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existed that were available to schools and libraries and universities

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into corporations and businesses. Um and the database was

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purchased by access innovations in the late 70s and was

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moved here to Albuquerque. And when I was working

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at Nice, and it It contained somewhat over 400,000

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individual biblical graphic records, cataloging somewhat over 600,000 individual

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media items. And our job was to keep that

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up to date to continually add items. And we

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did that from distributor catalogs. Um, and then

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, uh, the original form of its distribution was

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in print catalogs. And in the old days,

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some of you may remember our balcony published catalogs and

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they were multi volume, huge catalogs of print descriptors

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of these media items, and school libraries and media

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directors would use these indexes to find extent materials.

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So if you were looking up science materials for third

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grade and you wanted filmstrips, you wanted films or

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videos or whatever you'd look in these catalogs, you

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would find a descriptor and then you would find out

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who distributed that material and then you go to that

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distributor to get access to them. And actually when

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access innovations purchased the cattle of the database, one

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of the first catalogs they published with our balco was

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in association with the fact um well eventually these catalogues

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became so massive that it became more cost effective to

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distribute them on cd and online. And that's one

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of the things that access innovations did and what I

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continued to do. Um uh One of the highlights

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of the work that access innovations did was to work

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on the indexing system. And to do that you

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need a sarah's. Most people don't think much about

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indexing when you're dealing with a database, but in

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order to search for materials really need accurate logical system

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of descriptors. And that's why you have uh indexers

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and you have editors who not only write these descriptors

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based on catalogs from the from the producers and distributors

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, but you have people who then assign these descriptors

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. Well you need to have a logical set of

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descriptors that is uniform across the database. And most

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specialized databases have these and these are called Sarai Fassero's

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is not like roaches the SARS but these are these

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are asses. And one of the things that I'm

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most proud of is that we created the nice of

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the serous which is a uh a set of descriptors

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which are assigned to the nice um database. And

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this is a highly organized uh systematic um set of

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words, terms that are assigned to these These$400,000

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Geographic Records. Um Now you would think well why

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can't you just do a blunt force um Keyword searching

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? Well you can do that but if you have

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these descriptors and you're more likely to come up with

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logical results and search engines use these. You just

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don't know that. And so often what is done

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. And one of the things that access innovations did

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is to create computer programs that use machine aided indexing

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. And these are complex algorithms which actually used these

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sorry with these computer algorithms that use computers to do

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the indexing so that humans don't have to do all

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the indexing. These are often reviewed by humans but

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the indexing is sometimes done by computers along with human

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health. Um So that was a great fun project

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when I was nicer. Mhm. One of the

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other things that I'm most proud of when I was

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with with a I. T. The agency for

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instructional television later in technology. Um Just a brief

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word, A I. T. Uh in its

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day in the sixties, seventies and eighties was the

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premier largest uh producer and distributor of instructional video materials

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. And some of you may remember what that was

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, but in those days Um 90 of the schools

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had video equipment in their classrooms, in their buildings

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And it is estimated that 30 of teachers used instructional

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video on a regular basis, and a. IT

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. was the primary distributor of those materials to those

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teachers and classrooms. Yes, there were other major

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distributors like Great Plains out of Lincoln Nebraska and others

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. Um And this is not material that is uh

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that you think of like electric. Uh Now the

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name is casing by Sesame street and so forth.

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This is the material that's broadcast directly into the classrooms

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during the day. Um, and in those days

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there were huge networks uh, that were established and

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maintained by states and those who were organized into regional

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networks, um, particularly east of the Mississippi on

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the west Coast. And they were particularly strong in

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areas like the South East states, where those states

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found that it was very cost effective to have instructional

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television materials broadcast into the schools that could supplement their

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teachers, who may not have been especially adept at

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teaching subjects, all the subjects such as science and

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mathematics and social studies and um, language and all

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the, all the subjects that are expected in the

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classroom. Um, an it provided a huge catalog

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of all of these materials, but they were also

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innovators in creating consortium of, in states that could

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gather funds and agree on projects that needed to be

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provided that had not been provided here to fore.

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And so they would gather sons, usually in the

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in the area of hundreds or even a few million

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dollars, create the projects to the demands of these

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consortia and then provide them to those consortia states,

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I think more importantly, and why I was very

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proud of is that a I. T. Was

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at the forefront, in fact, was the first

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producer distributor that allowed off air recording rights. And

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so we were uh, very influential and influence in

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helping to craft the copyright laws that allowed for off

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air recording. Uh, we allowed all of our

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products to be off air recorded. So that led

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to really a mushrooming of uh, schools demanding VcRS

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in those days so that they could time shift programs

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and use them when they wanted to record them during

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the night or record them at one time during the

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day and then have teachers use them later. One

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of the things we did in celebration of a.

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I. T. S. 25th anniversaries was to

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hire bob Carlisle To go to 106 locations in 12

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different states and to survey how instructional television was being

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used in those different locations and bob. This was

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an anecdotal survey, but it showed how important um

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programming equipment and support was and showed how important this

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was not only to teachers and administrators but to students

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and how vastly uh influential instructional television was in that

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period. And this is really before computers became so

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um uh integral to education today. But this was

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the era when video was replacing film and became much

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easier to use than film and much more widespread.

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So those are the kind of the things that I

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did in my career and things that I was most

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proud of. How did you get interested in this

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field? Well, as I mentioned, I had

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a friend, frank smith who was a classmate of

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mine at Alamogordo High School and who went to Arizona

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State and was studying educational media there and he used

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to come home during a couple of summers uh,

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and he was talking to me about educational media.

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And so I, I explored that, visited the

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audiovisual center at New Mexico State University and thought,

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hey, this is neat stuff. And so,

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uh, talking to Phil Billard, who is the

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director of the Audiovisual Center at New Mexico State about

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his experiences at indiana University. Um, just convinced

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me that was the area for me and I've never

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regretted it for a minute. Um, so I

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moved from New Mexico across country to indiana, never

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having been there, never having visited Indiana University and

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absolutely fell in love with the people there, the

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faculty, the campus. And I have loved every

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minute of my career. This is not on the

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list. But who were some of your faculty mentors

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at indiana? Uh, two in particular? Um

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, uh Denny Pet was one of the dearest men

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I ever ever knew, especially in the courses dealing

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with photography, but others as well. And then

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he was a friend. He and his wife jean

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invited all of us over for meals at their house

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and other social gatherings. And another person who was

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extremely inferential was harvey fry, who was a master

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an artist in graphic arts and graphic design. And

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I think my love of, Of the printed page

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, my love of images on two and 3 dimensional

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surfaces. My love of anything that has to do

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with design ethic comes from Harvey who always said that

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it's not the equipment you use but it's the thought

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that goes into how you create that that thing that's

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more important. He came before the days of computer

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. I can only imagine what he would have done

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with a computer because his artistry with a pen and

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a ruler and a razor blade was absolutely phenomenal.

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So the tool was insignificant. It's what you did

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with that tool that was important and that's what I

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learned from Harvey and we'll never forget. Are there

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any other people who had an impact on your professional

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growth? Um Yeah my years, my 14.5 years

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at A. I. T. The agency for

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instructional technology uh were very important. Ed Cohen,

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who is executive director, he founded a. I

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. T. Um was the executive director while I

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was there. Um was a monument in the field

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of instructional technology, instructional television technology. Um Have

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great respect for Ed. He was a tough taskmaster

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but a brilliant man in shaping what instructional television technology

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was in that period. Um formed an incredible board

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of directors of state Superintendents of education state um Secretaries

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of education who came together to direct this agency was

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able to get people to to fund their money's pull

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their monies to fund projects brought in brilliant producers and

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directors to create materials. And I think helped change

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american education. By the way instructional television was created

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and produced and then distributed. Um So working for

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Ed was a great honor um that people I worked

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with were obviously an influence but he was he was

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probably the greatest. Um This may sound boastful but

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it's not meant that way I most of my career

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has been at the national level. Um I think

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I decided late in my career working on my doctorate

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and um I must say I finished my my academic

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program and started to work at it before I finish

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my dissertation. And it was very generous after I

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had received notice that I better finish my dissertation or

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else to finish my dissertation while I was at it

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. And so by then it was pretty much decided

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that I would not go into academia. I had

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already been working at I. T. For three

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or four years and I think going into academia at

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that period after having worked in industry so to speak

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was probably going to be awkward. And and by

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then I was really I guess kind of spoiled because

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I had been working and I feel that I really

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liked and going into teaching full time. Working in

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that environment didn't seem right for me. Plus I

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was seeing what it was like working as I said

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in a national arena, working for a I.

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T. Which was an american Canadian company um influencing

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policy that had national dimensions uh creating distributing materials that

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had an effect on Children across uh North America,

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both Canada United States um really was it was fun

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but it was it seemed very important. It was

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very important Later on as I became director of marketing

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, not just of audio visual marketing but of of

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marketing for the whole company. And then later I

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was director of marketing and creative services, which meant

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that the editors, the writers of all the pre

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materials, the teacher's guides worked under me as well

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. Um So the work that we were doing on

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behalf of Children in America of teachers and administrators and

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media and instructional television administrators throughout America, North and

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North America was very heavy stuff and that's kind of

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hard to, to shake. And I really love

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that kind of work. And when I was at

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nice, um the same thing applied here, we

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were working on a database that catalogues materials from mainly

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North America, but from really all around the world

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. But this database was being used by people,

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you know internationally and we were helping teachers and librarians

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and media professionals and all kinds of environments to find

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materials that they wouldn't have found otherwise. And that's

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the great feeling. It's a great sense of accomplishment

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when you can help other professionals find materials that help

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them do their job better and more importantly help kids

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or other learners learn better uh and and how professionals

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do their job better and there's no better feeling than

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that. So that's you know that's the accomplishments that

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I'm very proud of. How do you want to

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be remembered within this profession? Well if you haven't

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found by now I think what I what I want

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to be remembered by is what I've already said.

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I I'm very proud of the work I did at

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a I. T. Very proud of the work

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I did at at Nice. Um um I guess

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I want to be remembered. Buy in a very

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small way. The the influence that I've had on

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helping uh influence how media and materials have been used

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in american education whether it's through policy getting instructional video

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recorded and used um getting it priced well so that

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it's uh Affordable when we were at eight um getting

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it available uh in terms of uh information when I

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was at Nice um um Just getting that knowledge out

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there and making it accessible and available to everybody.

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Yeah destroyed. I have one final question that's no

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on here that I want to ask you earlier what

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was your involvement in the during your career? My

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involvement is A U. C. T. Is

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I was always a member. Uh And and when

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I was both at A. C. T.

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I'm sorry when I was at A. I.

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T. And at Nice um we always exhibited at

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um A. C. T. And the conferences

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I was always there, I always went to special

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events when I you sponsor them at A. C

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. T. Um uh E. C. T

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. Actually relocated to the building shortly after I left

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A. I. T. So I was very

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proud of that kind of connection which although happened after

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I left A. I. T. I was

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very excited about that. Um So I felt a

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great affinity to A. C. T. It

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was my professional organization and uh very proud of the

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work it did. Mhm. Can you last words

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you'd like to leave us with? Uh I don't

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think so. I'm very pleased to have this opportunity

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to talk. Hope. It's provided some insight to

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uh maybe some entities such as A. I.

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T. And Nice um that you may not have

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known much about hope. I've provided some insight but

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thank you for this opportunity. Thanks. Okay.