[Nathan Hall] Try again. Alright. If somebody wishes to say, I don't want to have a recording that prevents anyone from saying anything challenging. So if you feel like there's a point where you want to stop the recording, you can absolutely ask to do so and we will stop the recording so that we can have a more private conversation. We're still in a group here and I can't control what people recording on their from their phone behind the scenes, but not to make anyone paranoid about each other. I'm sure we're all we're all here as a community. And so I think I just wanna be able to protect everyone's right to privacy because but I also want to make this accessible to people who are, who are also interested in the project. So do raise your hand and ask if you wish the recording be turned off. [Mike Foreman] Looks like we're good, Nathan. [Nathan Hall] Alright. [Mike Foreman] Thank you very much. I wanted to give Alex Kinnaman, Alex, if you're within earshot, if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself as a assistant staff with Nathan's, ma'am, on this project? [Alex Kinnaman] Absolutely. I'm Alex Kinnaman. I'm the Digital Preservation Coordinator here at the Virginia Tech Libraries and I work under Nathan. I'm sorry, I missed last week, but I will be here for the rest of the sessions. My role in this grant has largely been preservation based. So when we receive content, making sure that it is preserved in multiple places with redundancy so that it, hopefully it never goes away. I'm a professional hoarder, if I may say so. But I will be helping facilitate a little bit in the breakout sessions and you'll be hearing from me in a presentation in another session, I believe. But I'm happy to meet you all and happy to be here. [Mike Foreman] Thank you Alex very much. A quick introduction of IEN staff, I'm Mike Foreman, I've been with IEN is 2018 after I retired from Virginia State Government and excited to be with all of you during these sessions and facilitating some breakout rooms as well. Selena, would you introduce yourself once more? [Selena Cozart] Good afternoon. I'm Selena Cozart, I'm in Charlottesville, affiliated with IEN as well as a facilitator. We've been living in Charlottesville for the better part of 30 years now. I was two when I moved here. [Mike Foreman] Thanks, Selena. Kelly? Thank you. [Kelly Altizer] Hi everyone. I'm Kelly Altizer. I'm excited to see those of you again who were here last Friday and to meet those of you who weren't. And today I will be mostly behind the scenes managing logistics and breakout rooms. [Mike Foreman] Thanks, Kelly. Speaking of breakout rooms, we'd like to now move. We're gonna go through a series of discussions and a presentation from Nathan and Alex and then engage with them and with each other in breakout rooms about the presentation around some of the functional requirements for a robust digital archive. But we'll turn now to first to some small group breakout rooms with a couple of questions for you and Kelly they're in the agenda, participants agenda as well. And also maybe you can place them in the chat if you don't mind doing that before we go to some breakout rooms. So the first question, what is your organizations role in preserving, documenting, maintaining regional heritage? And second, what kinds of things do you envision your community, your organization, being able to contribute to this proposed digital archives. So beginning types of questions for, for all of you and we look forward to a bit of discussion afterwards. While you all talk these questions out a little bit, we've scheduled about 10 minutes for this discussion. And look forward to some great responses. And Kelly, please, if you would, move us to break out rooms where we can get to know each other and entertain these questions a little bit. [Kelly Altizer] Yep, I just opened the rooms. You should see a pop-up of some kind on your screen. If you could just accept that and it will move you to your breakout space. [Mike Foreman] Welcome back everybody. My good colleague, Selena, will lead us in a little bit of a group debriefing. Thank you, Selena. [Selena Cozart] Absolutely. You guys had a chance to talk with each other about these two questions. First of all, what your organization's role is in preserving, documenting, maintaining regional heritage. And then the second question, if, if you all knew each other and kinda got through that very quickly, you might have gotten to the second one, which is, what kinds of things do you envision your organization being able to contribute to this proposed digital archives? So in this, in this quick debrief, I just like to hear from each group like what were some highlights of your conversations. So if someone wants to delegate or volunteer as the spokesperson for your group, we'd love to hear just a quick highlight of what you all discussed and what you heard. Who'd like to go first? [Speaker 1] This is [speaker 1] of the [unintelligible], I see my partner in our break outt meeting. [participant] is unmuted, is muted at this point. So I can't I can't nominate him to be the spokesperson for us. So I would assume that role if it's time to go. We both of us were confused as to whether we were the only two supposed to be in that breakout session. And so we mostly chatted with each other trying to figure out who we were and who we represented. And then we're just at the end, began to talk about the role of my group and Blue Ridge Heritage in the in the region as it might pertain to this project. So. End of report. Sorry. [Selena Cozart] Thank you. Thank you. The groups were two or three folks, and I'm glad you all got a chance to know a little bit about each other's organizations. Who would like to go next. [Speaker 2] Hi I'm [speaker 2], I'm not actually [participant] she is not here, from the Museum of the Middle Appalachians. I'm just a volunteer, but I talked with the ladies from Floyd County Library and we were also confused at first, but then we thought we'd better get to it whether there was anyone there to help us or not. And they mentioned that they have things like year books and local newspaper that's been around for a long time that they keep on record and available and things that people give them in genealogy like family stories. And here at the museum, we have a room that's called our library. And it's not open to the general public. And there's lots of things in there that need to be gone through and made available for people, thinks that it won't necessarily make it out on the museum showcase. And so things like we have geologists' notes from projects they do digs, and we have newsletters, books, all sorts of things that I have only seen at a glance so far, I've only been here a few months. But [participant] will be able to tell you more when she's back. Thanks. [Selena Cozart] We're glad you're here and volunteers are the lifeblood of so many organizations. So thank you for speaking up and doing what you do. [Speaker 2]Thank you. [Speaker 3] I'll go next. We spent a decent amount of the time just dealing with an audio glitch with one of our members, but I worked for the Town of Blacksburg and my breakout room partner also worked for the Blue Ridge Heritage or volunteered with, I'm not sure, Blue Ridge Heritage. And I offered that I feel like we don't have a role. And then of course remember Nathan's admonition that in doing the work of local governmenting, we hold a great deal of artifacts and record public records that might seem not that important at the time, but give us a window into who we are, particularly as time passes. And I won't speak on behalf of my my partner, But I did hear a little bit about what the Blue Ridge Heritage group does and is trying to do. [Selena Cozart] Awesome. Thank you, [speaker 3]. Who's next? [Speaker 4] I can go. I'm [speaker 4]. I spoke with [speaker 7] and a little bit with [speaker 10] although [speaker 10] was in transit, so we didn't get as much from him. And we talked about the tension between the kinds of things that we are focused on collecting and preserving versus what the community around us wants to give us. How to deal with that, how to deal with intake or refusal? [Selena Cozart] Yeah. [Speaker 5] My group there were three of us and we were talking about a couple of things that have already been brought up. We had a representative from the Museum of the middle Appalachians, which has a great deal of information about the history of the Saltville region, and of the extractive industries in the area, extracting salt and the chemical industry associated with that. And we also had a representative of a, if I recall correctly, a museum that's under development, African American Heritage Museum. I'm with Blue Ridge Heritage. And we're in the process of trying to create a program focusing on Floyd and Patrick counties. Initially I think we would be having more of a parasitic relationship with the community archives than contributing to it because we're a very young organization. But I think we could also, since our goal is to interpret historical change in these counties are guiding theme as a Century of Change in the 20th century from semi-subsistence to globalization we'll be gathering these materials together and also developing online educational programs and tours through the counties. Part of our goal was economic enhancement. The tours, we get people off the Blue Ridge Parkway and out into the counties. We would eventually be able to contribute these educational resources developed in part through the archival information that could then be connected back to the archives if if that would be of interest to Nathan and friends. [Selena Cozart] Thanks [speaker 5]. Did we hear from all the groups? I think there might be one left. Maybe I lost count. I don't see anybody stepping up, but thank you all for sharing a little bit, giving us a little window into your conversations. I'm going to pass it now to Nathan and Alex to talk about the functional requirements. [Nathan Hall] Thank you, Selena. Oh, that was Michael. I was I was I heard I thought was an echo of my own voice for a second. I'm going to share my screen for a little bit. Excuse me. This is going back to when I was a graduate student. I did my library degree and my PhD at the University of North Texas. And this is the first program that I worked on. When I said earlier that this is not how libraries traditionally collect that that was true, but I'm not the first person to do this. This is just what distinguishes me from other people who have made regional archives is that I'm trying to identify a model for how it's done or how it could be and should be done. So this is one that kinda grew organically as the Portal to Texas History is based at the University of North Texas. When I started working with them, there was maybe five contributing partners. And now there's now there's about 400. And let's see if I can find the list. Okay. 468 partners from across the state of Texas and there's other university libraries, there's a kind of museums, there's news archives. And some of these institutions, they entered an agreement with UNT to either digitize their collections and put them online or to take digitize already digitized collections that they held and move them into this library. And sometimes that happened, like in 2000, as far back as 2005. And some of these are small institutions and they've had maybe two directors who have come and gone and at time, so some of these partners that are on this list may no longer be aware that they that they had that history of contributing some materials. So that's to say that this has grown up for a long time and of these 468 partners, not all of them are actively contributing right now. It's just that they might have contributed something in the past. And I don't, I've never been to this particular collection, but it tells you where it is. It gives a little map, provides all the contact information, tells you about the institution, and then has the items in the collection. So they've got a, here's the different ways that you can view. The different ways you can browse what they hold. They might have, it says they have seven languages. Here's what. I've just clicked on the Hebrews that we've got a looks like a piece of the Torah here. And they have, I'll try Spanish language. So here's a map from a, from a, from an explorer who led an European expedition into present day Texas in 1690. So this is all just what this one partner, which is another university library in Texas that's contributing. So there's lots of ways to browse this. And people have made contributions over time. I'm trying to get to the, there's also a Digital Newspaper Program. Um, so this is all from across different collections, but there's 1,732 titles. Those are not just issues, those are 1,732 like titles of newspapers. So the Brownsville Herald, some of these might've stopped existing more than 100 years ago. And so they have a means of browsing newspaper issues. And I can actually search within this. So I'll search for Brownsville. When I search inside, they've got the OCR, that's the optical character recognition marked up in a way that maps it to individual images. So it will find me exactly on the image where it says Brownsville in each of these. And I can see all the places that Brownsville is labeled in this particular issue. So I'm not saying that this is a functional, this is one of their functional requirements is being able to find words that happened in a document. So when we talk about functional requirements here, I'd like to just say there's a functional requirement is one that makes the library usable to the person using it. So ability to search, to search in a way that reflects your needs. Ability to browse the collections, and browse in a way that reflects your needs. How the collections are structured based on the way that we want to work together. Presumably, we want a way to say, here's the things that came from the Floyd County Historical Society. Here is that things that came from the West Virginia Mine Wars Museum and so that we'd see that institution and what they hold and what they've brought to this particular project. And other functional requirements might be around what kind of transparency we offer with documentation. So you might be interested or maybe not interested in how in the technology and how this works. And there might be that might be a particularly uninteresting thing, but we also have to make that visible for certain kinds of partnerships where we need to demonstrate our trustworthiness to a larger community that say this is the resource that we put into this and here's the standards that we follow so that you can tell that this is a trustworthy endeavor. And also, as we've talked about last week, the rights that are associated with the relationships that we enter into. So if you are contributing a collection, what rights do you have over what you contribute? Whose intellectual property is it? As I mentioned last week, my assumption is that you had maintain intellectual property rights over the collections you doing. I'm just asking for a license to make something shareable. But do we want to put that language into the digital library? So those are some of the functional requirements that I think about. Alex, do you want to add anything? [Alex Kinnaman] Sure. You might also be thinking about ways we want people to access it, access your content. So things like being able to download or just being able to view. You might want to explain with what kind of permissions there are for the content and what it is intended to be used for. We're building in what we're calling ancillary pages with a full page dedicated to specific permissions information. And that I think is fairly unique for a digital library to have, at least from my experience. You might also be thinking like what might we want to store but not make visible? And that's my role is just getting everything preserved and where you want it to be. But there might be things that it would be good to keep a separate location from where it currently is, but maybe you don't want public access. Just a couple of other thoughts in there. [Nathan Hall] And I'll also share my screen again. This time. This is a document that Alex has mostly put together based on functional requirements that were identified through a few interviews that another colleague led, a Metadata Librarian here named Kara Long. And so here's when we design our digital library for our internal stakeholders is how we eventually formalized these requirements. So here's a user story. So for the people who are managing the content, they want to. This person and asked for human readable version of how we organize data in a centralized location along and other relevant documentation. I want to be able to download metadata for an item or collection for research purposes. So these are things that were asked for that that have been articulated in into the into functional requirements. So I'm not asking people to fill this out, but I'm showing you what we'll do with what we learned. And we basically turn it into a set of requirements for how we are going to design a digital library in the future. Or in this case, right now. Are there any questions about the functional requirements? Are what they are, what the process is? [Mike Foreman] You can put your questions in the chat or you can just speak up right now with any questions on Alex and Nathan's presentation? Yes, I have one. Nathan, if Alex, is that is there anything that the potential agreement has to have a functional requirement or is there anything that's particularly, I don't know what the right word is. Like a have-to kind of requirement for all of you at Virginia Tech? [Nathan Hall] I mean something that we would require of participants or? [Mike Foreman] Yeah, exactly. I'm sorry. It wasn't very articulate. [Nathan Hall] Yeah. I think we are required to follow state law and certain standards. And that doesn't put any burden on the participants hopefully, it's more about making things, meeting minimum accessibility guidelines. Minimum standards for content and preservation. So those are the kinds of requirements that we have to follow. [Mike Foreman] Thank you. I see. I see [speaker 6], you had your hand up. [Speaker 6] Yes. I really like Alex's idea of the ability perhaps to store but not make visible or i.e. no public access. Some data, for instance, a good bit of the work that we do at the Greene County Historical Society does have to do with genealogy and sometimes it can get into families' sensitive areas, shall we say. There's probably a lot of genealogical research we've done that is openly shareable. But if there's a way of categorizing it, that some elements of data or some genealogies that would just not be in public view but would be basically stored and maintained. That's a good idea. [Alex Kinnaman] Yeah, that's especially relevant to collections we want to keep altogether. But there are those certain portions that just don't require public asset access. [Nathan Hall] So we've got a bit of a history of that. In the there's there's two sides of this for how Virginia Tech's handle it, and one is that if there's, if it contains certain kinds of information, we are not allowed to put it online. So in the past, when we first started digitizing theses and dissertations here, and we're one of the first universities to do electronic theses and dissertations. But when we started digitizing the really old ones, they all had social security numbers on them that was used as a student ID. And then some of these dissertations contained those and they were in the middle of the digitization process. I don't know that those are put online and they found out or if they were in the middle scan and then they realized, uh oh, we're scanning all of these and we're copying people's social security numbers and we have the intent to put them online, but we can't obviously can't do that. So how are we going to handle that information? In some way, in some, for those cases, they actually deleted that part of the document for that contain that. So that's us making a change to something. And we want to avoid changing things because this is a historical document. So we don't want to edit things out. But that was how we were forced to handle that particular case. So that's that's one way of handling it. Another way is to be selective about what goes in. So if these things here, we might say here's a particular set of, here's a document set of documents that's interesting. But there's a subset of them that we shouldn't put online. And recently, I was, we were digitizing materials, this was probably two years ago, from the Blacksburg Episcopal Church, and this is one of the older churches in Blacksburg and it's filled with a lot of their registries of the church membership is full of a lot of the names that are on our street signs and road signs and neighborhood names. And It's basically a history of who is in the Episcopal church over the last 200 years or more. And we put the older ones in this workflow to put them online. But for the newer ones, we decided let's not do that yet. We had, we still digitized them so that we can return the original. But we basically put an embargo on it and saying, we won't release this until the people, we're going to time it with the with the same rules that they use for census records. So I can't remember if it's 51, 57 years, whatever it is. But when people who are born before 1950, right now their census records might be publicly available. That census, that the 1950s census might be publicly available. So I basically what we're not putting in things, we're not ingesting materials that show information that's not already public. So that's how we handle that. We can put an embargo and say this will be released this information will be released on this particular day because that's when that census will be released. If there's something that's, that should never be viewable, then we might say, maybe this shouldn't go into digital library at all because of whether we're protecting the, the history of the people who are and the privacy of the people who are involved, or if it's just or for some other reason. And there's plenty of institutions that make those choices. So maybe there's some things you want to, for us to ingest [speaker 6] and other things that you don't. We don't have to do 100% of anyone's collection. We can be, we can pick and choose. We'd like to be able to ingest as much as you'd like to share. And we'd like to be able to provide that means of controlling what's viewable and have it still be useful to you. But the tools we have, if you were to put those things in and we were to embargo them, your ability to access them yourself is still, within our system as it is today, too limited to provide much value to you other than preservation. However, we can also provide preservation services without putting things online. I've offered maybe five different options of dealing with that. And maybe that's more than, it's easy to think about it once because I'm only able to talk about them in very limited amounts without going on a very long tangent. So I hope this is helpful. [Alex Kinnaman] I would also add that if something is mistakenly ingested if you like, accidentally include something that really shouldn't have been up, there are mechanisms for taking that down and deleting its record and making sure it's not only just not viewable, but not physically or digitally in the repository at all. So there's there's fail safes for those occurrences. [Speaker 1] May I ask a question, please? One of the things that I would suspect every one of the contributors to this digital library would want, is the ability to, for lack of a better word, proofread what you all put up there, and editorial oversight on that. So that's one of the things that, for what it's worth, I contribute. [Mike Foreman] Comments, Alex and Nathan? [Nathan Hall] I guess I'd like to hear more detail about what you mean [speaker 1], by 'approved.' So if you mean like if Blue Ridge Heritage is providing some kind of content that before it goes online, you'd want to review it to make sure it looks right, or are you talking about sort of governance over the whole collection over, basically a governance body that would oversee how all the collections that went in. [Speaker 1] I'm basically a suspicious person. I want to make sure you did it right. [overlapping voices] [Alex Kinnaman] Fair enough! [Nathan Hall] Okay. Yes. So I've got a collection and I pointed to it last week, but I've got the Salem Fire Department behind me, or rather, not the department but their archives, part of their archives and I doubt there are many people alive who know what's in the photographs. And so, yeah, my ability to do it right, is limited by my ignorance. And so what I hope to do is bring that forward to them after the digitized and meet with, they've got a retirees breakfast and I want to meet with them and say, Hey, tell me about these pictures. Then we'd have a session where we can start filling out the, what's in there. But there's all sorts of due process for everything where, where we have three versions of a digital library before it becomes public. And the second-to-last is basically the stakeholders sees it. And it says, yes, this is accurate or no, this needs more work. [Alex Kinnaman] Can I follow up with to that? [Mike Foreman] Please, Alex. Yeah. I was gonna get you. Go ahead. [Alex Kinnaman] Sorry. So, before you specified what exactly you meant, I was thinking about the ancillary pages I was, I mentioned, and if it's okay, I'm going to share my screen just really briefly. So this is one of our collections, the International Archive of Women in Architecture. And when you were talking and make sure we did it right and make sure all of the information is there, we have a page for each collection that kinda looks like this. It has the contact information and all of that. So is that also something that you were thinking or am I just jumping the gun? [Speaker 1] Well, I was vague on purpose. In our work with change of the 20th century, we have become privy to stories that could be in incriminatory or embarrassing to the people that we're trying to feature. Try to give an example without giving anything away. We've heard stories of most rural areas where medical help was not available in the early 20th century, of a father of a boy who had come down with rabies, euthanized his son to avoid the suffering? No. That's it. That's embarrassing. That's maybe not something that somebody want to share or learn about or their family to have other people say, oh, that family had a murderer in there. Well, in fact it did. But that's also historical. So areas like that that would embarrass, or in one case, one another case where somebody found out their great uncle committed suicide and they found it scandalous. Their word, I don't know, but those are the kinds of things that it's historical, it may be worth knowing about if you're trying to learn about the culture of the Floyd and Patrick county peoples in the 20th century and how it's changed. And with a lot of that change came technology, which should, in my opinion, kind of create a statute of limitation when things were done that now could be done differently according to our today's standards. [overlapping voices] [Speaker 1] All that to say is, [Mike Foreman] Please continue. [Speaker 1] Thank you. [Mike Foreman] Okay. Alex, or Nathan, any? [Alex Kinnaman] I suppose my initial response, and Nathan can correct me or follow up, would be that we probably wouldn't, we at the libraries, wouldn't decide how the information is or what information is represented, more how it's displayed. So I think when we were collecting information about each item in your collection, we would go with what you provide us and we would leave that up to your discretion. And I think we could offer some consultation if like there's some really finicky items that you just aren't sure about. But we would generally leave that to the stakeholders rather than add anything ourselves. And as Nathan mentioned, our, we call it the pre-production, so before it goes public, when we have folks review to make sure it looks right, that's something that would be visible, that you'd be able to check. [Mike Foreman] Thanks, Alex. [Speaker 6], are you going to bring up the rear regarding our last question for this period of time. Thank you, sir. [Speaker 6] Basically, the only thing I would add is on the proofreading. There's a lot of issues when you scan stuff in with OCR. It does not necessarily scan correctly. Given the type of document. I've been working with Virginia Chronicles, which has a lot of Virginia newspapers in there. And there's a way to do text correction in there and it's it's really pretty convenient. [Nathan Hall] Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. [Speaker 1] I guess my reason for even asking questions in the first place, is because that would be something very important to me as a stakeholder. To kind of know how my stuff's going to be, what opportunities I have to protect the sensitivities of the stuff that I might offer that's interesting, but not necessary. [Nathan Hall] So I think as Alex was saying there's, there's the sort of these different previous site. sections and what I'll just add to that is that all this applies to any archive, is that there's there's tremendous power that comes with, and responsibility, that comes with including or not including something in an archive. And you can highlight a story and you can, or you can erase the story by choosing whether it's part of that or not. I'm not talking about what we what choices that we make. But I mean, what choice has happened in any archive just as a matter of archival practice. So this is a choice that has to happen at a local level. And by choosing to include it within this project, is basically choosing to highlight it. So if something should not be included or highlighted, then that's something that that's not a decision that I'm going to make. That's a decision that I'm going to empower the participants to make and empower them hopefully to correct as well. If something is, is if there's a, a strong ethical reason not to share something that's already been made public than we would have the ability to take it down or if there's a legal reason to take it down, we would. [Mike Foreman] Well, thanks everybody. Some great questions. [overlapping voices] [Mike Foreman] Go ahead, please. [Speaker 1] I was just gonna say in most places that I've had experience with, there are ways to represent something without claiming it to be factual. For example, my wife makes homemade soap. We know it has certain capabilities and features. The Food and Drug Administration does not like those non-scientifically proven claims. And you're able to get around that by saying, 'some people say' or 'we've heard it said that' or 'it has been my experience that this soap removes the smell of skunks' or something like, this as an example. Is, are there, I don't know, the word hedge fund comes to my mind, but that's why they're standard hedges that you can hide behind in this archival stuff. [Speaker 5] It would seem to me that this is something that would be worked out during the process of deciding what is given to Nathan to put online. And basically, if someone does not want it ever to be seen, a simple way to deal with that is to not give it to Nathan. [Mike Foreman] Thanks, [speaker 5]. Yeah. Okay. Great. [overlapping voices] [Speaker 1] What's interesting to Blue Ridge... [Mike Foreman] I'd like to move toward a break [speaker 1] , if I could with you, sir, and we can bring this back up and just a few minutes again, if you'd like, but great set of questions and comments for Nathan and Alex's presentation. We're about halfway through. We'd like to take a short break, 5 minutes or so, come back about 02:06 and pick up our larger breakout rooms. It's really great question. So don't don't leave us on a Friday afternoon. Come back and we'll pick up the conversation once again in 5 minutes. Thank you all. [Kelly Altizer] Welcome back, everyone. We'll get started in just a moment. [Speaker 1] From me, whoever called this break. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [Kelly Altizer] That was Nathan's request to make sure we built a break into the agenda. So all thanks to Nathan for that. So Mike will be back in just a moment. But I did want to point you all towards the Google Doc, the same one that where you found the sign-in sheet. I'm going to put the link in the chat again. We will be using this for our breakout rooms which are coming up next. If you are able to navigate to that document, you'll be able to see the questions there and to type in your answers if you're so inclined. But if you're not able to access the document or if you prefer just t, if you're more of a visual interacter then your group facilitator can help walk you through those questions. But if you're able to pull it up on your end, please do so. That would be great. [Mike Foreman] Kelly, were you describing the Google Doc did I missed something. [Kelly Altizer] I was describing the Google doc and just to say to anybody who is new to Google Docs, I will, I want to share something with you, which is just I'm gonna do. I'm gonna share my screen really quickly and show you the Google Doc. So we'll all be working on the same document. And if you're inclined to type in your answers, you need to pull it up on your end. I know when you're looking at it like this, it looks like you should be able to just click on the screen and type, but in order for it to work, you have to pull it up on your end and type into it so you'll see others perhaps typing at the same time as you. Sometimes things will shift a little bit. Hopefully we've created enough space where it won't be jumping around. But when you're typing, you show up as an anonymous animal of some kind. Google puts the funniest names on them, so it will not show up as your name. You'll be like an anonymous antelope or something like that. So that's a quick synopsis of Google Docs and I will be available via chat if you have any problems, I'm happy to answer questions. [Mike Foreman] Thanks, Kelly, would anybody have a Google Doc technical question for Kelly before we move to our breakout rooms. Anybody? Okay, Super. Thank you. Kelly, if you don't mind putting the questions in the chat for us, we can look at them for a moment, for our breakout rooms, that'd be great. We're gonna move to really the core elements of our work today with all of you to draw out some of the answers to these questions based on Nathan and Alex's good presentation about functional requirements of a digital archive. So the questions are over in the chat now and they're also of course on the Google doc. So, one, what functional requirements jump out at you; two viability of a community driven description; three, what protocols would be needed for your organization to contribute to the archive; four, what concerns do you have about consent and privacy with unique and at-risk media? Lastly, what is your balance between open knowledge values with community control and individual privacy? So just getting at some of these requirements from all of you and Alex, Selena, and I will be leading the three rooms and for facilitators. So five questions, we have about 25 minutes of time. So of course that means 4 or 5 minutes per question. So Kelly, you're welcome to put us into rooms and we'll get going on our work today. [Kelly Altizer] Great, thank you. I'm going to open the rooms now. [Nathan Hall] One question. Do we have a, Kelly, are you going to be doing the technical lead for this? So yeah, room you're gonna be able to put them back in. [Kelly Altizer] That's right. I'll be in the main space if anybody gets kicked out, I'm here to help. [Nathan Hall] Great. Thank you. [Selena Cozart] I'm not the content expert on what he just presented, so I am not able to summarize that. [Nathan Hall] I just jumped in. So if somebody has a question, I'm going to try to jump through. If there's some question on clarity. What was the, I just missed what was asked? [Selena Cozart] Yeah. Nathan, [speaker 7] am I pronouncing your name right? [Speaker 7] It's [redacted]. [Selena Cozart] Okay. She just made the comment that she didn't actually see a list of the functional requirements. You talked through them. So nothing really stood out from that for her. And then there was a request for a summary or a recap. And that wasn't something I was able to offer. And you came in at just the right time. [Nathan Hall] Alright. So I guess there wasn't a yeah, there wasn't really a list that I provided is more just to sort of walk through of things that digital library does. Oh go ahead, [speaker 8] , did you have something to say? [Speaker 8] No I'm sorry. Go ahead. [Nathan Hall] Okay. I just thought it looked like your hand was up. [unintelligible] [Nathan Hall] Okay. That's fine. We all have lives behind the camera. I certainly do too. So the things like the ability to search or the ability to browse, the ability to browse by dates, the ability to control and restrict access as needed. Those are things that came up in the conversation. Things that the, ability to, to see how things work, the ability to, to add or edit or update collections, the ability to preview them before they're live. Those are some of the requirements that we that we discussed. So they weren't really there's not a formal list. It was more, I guess maybe I could have rephrased the question. So what jumped out at you, like what, what would be important to you in a digital library like that, or a digital project like this. [Speaker 7] So I think that's a better explanation. Thank you very much. I think for, for a lot of folks, it will be the control, having control over our content once we've, once we've handed it off to you, and being able to preview it will be, I think really important for a lot of folks. Whoops, I didn't know I gave you that document. Let's go ahead and take that one page down or whatever that is. I think some of that will be will be really important. Yeah. Thanks. [Nathan Hall] That sounds like an appraisal process is important to get an opportunity for people to review what's going in and before we put a lot of labor into it. [Speaker 1] This is [speaker 1] and I apologize to all of those who are much higher educated than I am, especially on the computer side. But one thing I have found out in the last 15 years with Blue Ridge Heritage is that it is if you're going to get people to share with you, they do not, they must feel that you are not looking down at them or talking over their head. That they can trust you. Because we're not like you all who know how to do this digital stuff. Frankly, I'm not like that. And so to get participation, you've got to establish a trusting relationship with those from whom you could get a whole lot of local stuff. [Nathan Hall] Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. That's, that's been the most significant challenge that I see. The technology is relatively easy, not because I'm good at it. It's because I have got a large team of people to work with that each have a certain skill. But leveraging that in a way that I can extend it to the community and make it useful and usable to them. And building that trust is probably one of the most significant parts of my job and the one I feel most passionately about too. It's hard to do it with, any other way than to do it one by one because I need to talk to everyone. I think differently based on it. So it's hard to talk to you a big group and make the same explanation that, and have it be, have it feel applicable to everyone involved. [Speaker 8] Nathan, what I would say echoing what [speaker 1] just said, I'm not exactly computer literate and all the new things today, what we would need assistance and would that be provided to get an understanding of exactly what it is that we have and what is up and how to assess it. And then to be able to let others in our community, communities know about this. And now, I don't know if I'm intelligent enough to talk about to talk the talk. So we might need assistance, technical assistance, I guess in the beginning until we became more fluent in process. [Nathan Hall] Well, I just wanted to say both to you and [speaker 1], I don't see this as a matter of intelligence. It's a matter of I guess, I mean, you know an awful lot about the things that you spent your time studying and I don't know about those things. And so that's why, and also as someone who, whose only lived in this region for ten years, I've met some people who are who are deeply connected and know the area very well. But I don't know the area really well myself. So I want to leverage everyone's individual strengths and bring them together in this endeavor. For, we do have a process for testing our digital library. And part of that is showing it to someone and having them, asking them to perform certain tasks with it. And it sounds like that might be useful. Basically saying, Hey, are you able to use this? And if not, how can we make it better? And then we integrate that in the design process, but we can also meet one of them by one and get a tour of how it works and how to participate. Does does that sound useful? [Speaker 8] Yes. And [speaker 1], for you as well, is that? [Speaker 1] Indeed it is because the thought just came up from [speaker 8], just talk. We're creating a digital library. If I had a room full, if this room of mine, was totally full of really interesting factual stuff, I couldn't digitize it. Are we going to get help to those who do not have the digitizing capability? For example is, will there be a place where I can bring three boxes full of documents and have them digitized? [Nathan Hall] Yeah, that's why I have the Salem Fire Department stuff right here, it's their loan to Virginia Tech for digitization. So working through the process for like, oh, how do we assess what is this? We're getting, we're learning more about that. But, um, but yeah, we have a digitization service that we can extend to the participants as needed. I want to make sure that other groups aren't struggling with the first question, the way that, that there were questions about, about the functional requirements. So I might jump to another group and let you all continue and see what else comes up when we get back together. So thank you and I will move along to another group. [Selena Cozart] Thanks Nathan for hopping in. All right. And we've got a few more. [Speaker 5] Well, here's someone who can explain it. [Mike Foreman] Please go ahead. [Nathan Hall] Was there a question? [Mike Foreman] Hi Nathan. [Speaker 2] Yeah. [Mike Foreman] Question two. Just a little bit of better definition of what you mean by community-driven description. What is the viability of that? [Nathan Hall] So if I show you a bunch of things that came from your institution and we digitize them for you. But now we're able to show them too, because before they were at and maybe a shoebox in someone's basement or maybe they were an actual archival boxes in a proper environment, but just not very accessible to people outside of the archivists. But now we can show them to a lot of people at once. And now we can ask for their feedback about what's in this. Because it's not just, it's not just the person digitized it and the archivists looking at it. It's, I might've mentioned this earlier, but basically, if I take a collection of photographs and go to a community breakfast, for example, but it doesn't have to be that it could just be using a community board chair or some kind of someone who's organizing a session. But basically go through and look at what's in there and talk about what the history of these individual documents is. Or if we have if we have a means of, if you're able to interact with the content online and not necessarily comment in because we don't want to have a comment section necessarily because those can erupt in unexpected ways. But if, if you're able to say like, Hey, on this image 14327, I know what that is. We don't have to call it that. We can now call it Ralph's grandfather, who was a metal worker in during this period, or in this location. So being able to let people communicate back. [Speaker 2] So it's more of a functional requirement of allowing others some input for us to be able to give the better descriptions, possibly. [Nathan Hall] Yeah. Yeah. [Mike Foreman] Okay. Great, [speaker 2], would you have any thoughts on that matter? [Speaker 2] That could be very helpful since we probably have some things that we might have a general idea of what it is or some things that were not even sure what they are. And there could be somebody out there that moved out of old Saltville but still knows what it is and would have access and be able to make comment to provide information. So I think it's good to have that as a functional requirement. I think it's gonna be difficult on our level to come up with some of that ourselves before putting it online. [Mike Foreman] Yeah probably so. [Nathan Hall] So based on, you know, I'm jumping around between rooms, but based on the first room I went into and [noise] this question, it sounds like are, the questions that Alex and I provided this time are a little bit hard to interact with. There's some, they may be a bit jargony. Is that the case? [Mike Foreman] No. The first question was fine. We just got your arrival into our room was well-timed. We were just getting into question two. I think question three about protocols is fairly clear, so we'll be moving to that in just a moment. I think we're okay now. [Nathan Hall] Alright, I might jump into another room then. [Mike Foreman] Alright, very good. Any ideas around how the community can be helpful in characterizing these documents and so forth. Anything else? [Alex Kinnaman] Hey bossman. [Nathan Hall] So she calls me that all the time. That's just a casual nickname actually. [Alex Kinnaman] I forgot we're with people that don't know me. [Nathan Hall] I'm hopping between rooms and just seeing how things are going and then see if people have any questions. If you don't have a question, I since this since you're here, Alex, you can provide technical explanation of what everything means. That's been an issue for the other rooms is the jargon. [Alex Kinnaman] The jargon. Yep. We've been trying to broaden the questions a little more away from it. So like taking the question and kind of making it a little bit broader so it's more relatable. [Nathan Hall] Alright. Anything while I'm here or should I move along? [Alex Kinnaman] Nothing from me. [Nathan Hall] Alright. Well, sounds good, and I'll keep going. [Alex Kinnaman] Sounds good. Thank you. [Speaker 8] --here in the, if there are any negatives to this and all I need is just the conversation with someone could speak to that comfort and any misgivings. We were like, I think CI initially had some misgivings about that because I also was a part of that community. But as you said, we've come to trust in the process now and we're feeling a lot better about doing this. But our first concerns were we were hearing where someone was going to come in and take our archival stuff and take it off and we were going to lose control of it. But he assured us that that wasn't going to happen. So but there are still questions that I have. [Selena Cozart] So that kinda leads us into this third question which says, what protocols or what ways of doing business would be needed for your organization to contribute to the digital archive? And so some of those things have been stated, just building the trust. Are there other things that you would add at this point for this question? What needs to be in place for your organization to contribute to the digital archive. [Speaker 8] Someone to answer our questions. [Speaker 1] I would think also for those of the group that would be fearful of loss of control, loss particularly, is there a possibility to be bonded so that if something should, God forbid, get burned up in a fire, you got at least some a bonding and insurance on the value of what was lost. Maybe I'm being too cautious, but those are real concerns among people with documents that they hold dear. [Nathan Hall] So [speaker 1], are you talking about if we're borrowing something and we're digitizing it and it was damaged or lost while we had it in our Virginia Tech's possession. How would the value of those be restored to the condition was that, is that what you were saying? [Speaker 1] What I'm saying is, to that group, person, whatever to whom I've just given my 200 year history of the families named Swartz, if anybody would be interested in it. And you go on to take it, I'm gonna give it to you. Now I presume that at Tech you've got insurance, for content insurance for the fire should happen. But that's for your stuff? No. Is there an [unintelligible] sign of a bond or a insurance policy? It could be carried for stuff that I could explain to people who were on top trying to talk into giving information to say, okay, look, push comes to shove, the worst things happened. There's an insurance policy out on this. So if you go in and give it to digitize, at least take a picture of it so that the least have something left, gonna get some money to develop those pictures. [Nathan Hall] All right. Yeah. Thank you for explaining that. [Selena Cozart] We're out of time. I apologize. We didn't get to the last two questions, but I appreciate your your rich engagement. [Kelly Altizer] Welcome back, everyone. We're almost to yeah, all the rooms are closed. Mike you're muted. [Mike Foreman] I thought I'd get by with a whole week without having to be told I was on mute. Not the case late Friday afternoon! Welcome back, everybody. Thank you for the good work. Because people are still coming back, Kelly, I think. Thank you for everybody's work and, go ahead, Kelly. Sorry. Thank you, everybody for your effort in the breakout rooms session, we were designated for a few minutes of sort of larger debrief. Alex, would you like to talk about the highlights from your group and your questions for a few minutes? [Alex Kinnaman] For sure. We actually spent a lot of time deciding what the question is really meant to, to the group members and what it, how does it really apply to what's going on? The functional requirements were really interesting. We had a great conversation on that. Searchable text and OCR is the big theme. That is a highly valuable requirement for I think everyone in my group anyway that we discussed. And then also just like having the ability to have unique metadata and unique tagging and being able to find all of the unique things without it being too granular. And then I did want to share, I won't go through all the questions I suppose. But the second question, I think really hits home the whole point of this forum series is that no one else will know the content and its value than the organization with the content. Bumper sticker. I loved that. And the other really interesting thing was, we know the kinds of questions we get about the collection so we can kind of prepare and we can give that information in the collection without causing any confusion because people will probably try to get in touch or not know where to go so it can just be there. And I really liked that answer. From this group. There was some fewer concerns with consent and privacy, mostly about the yearbook collections and having juveniles or individuals from donated family history books out there and accessible. Just some kind of curiosity about that and wondering what to do with that. And then of course, the, these are all physical locations. We want people to go to those places. So where's the balance of making objects or items accessible online, but also still getting people to actually visit the location and interact with the objects themselves. And that was kind of the gist of our conversation, but I welcome any of my group members to jump in on anything I missed. [Mike Foreman] Thanks, Alex. Anyone would like to add to in Alex's group to her comments. Well, thanks, Selena, would you mind giving you a few highlights from your conversation, from the questions? [Selena Cozart] I'd be happy to. We started with the first question. It was wasn't really clarity about what the functional requirements were. Some people said that the, the presentation went a little fast. And so so I'm really grateful because Nathan jumped in right at that time and he was able to present some things for clarity. And so one of the main things that came up in terms of what would people find important for this project, were that having control over the digital content, having an opportunity to review before publication actually occurs. providing assistance to people who need assistance on to be able to even assess what they have in hand. And orienting people to the technology and the possibilities. Another thing that would be important is having a place to digitize. Particularly if participants are organizations don't have their own equipment and that kinda leads into, well, it became up again later with question three. But with number two, this notion of the conversation about the viability of the community-driven description really brought up a conversation about the language that we use to talk about these things to make sure that it's accessible to everyone. Someone used the phrase 'make more available to common folk.' Just being aware of the word choices can be really helpful. Just in terms of how, how this could be community-driven, both taken into account the general public and the academic researchers who will be participating in the project and using the archive later. So to that end, hoping to have some tutorials and trainings, maybe some, some FAQs and templates. That would be helpful. Someone came up with the phrase, having maybe a 'digitizer mobile' to go out to communities. [Mike Foreman] We had the same idea, Selena, yeah. Traveling band, like a food truck almost, right? [Selena Cozart] Yeah. Absolutely. Like the book mobile working in conjunction with local libraries. And then it was brought up that at Calfee they had digitizing days. They were set up at local churches working in conjunction with research classes from Virginia Tech and graduate students providing service. Just a way to be able to have conversations, to go over the pros and cons, and be able to have their questions answered. The third question was about the protocols needed. What will make this work? And that first thing that came up was having someone to answer questions to build trust. The theme of trust came through with all the questions that we were able to engage. And then the comment about how to ensure any items that left the care of the organization, how would those things be covered in the case of fire damage or loss of some sort. And we had a really rich conversation on those three questions and didn't get to the last two. So I'm going to hand it back to you, Mike. [Mike Foreman] Alright. Thank you, Selena. Yeah. From my group too, functional requirements, they we talked a little bit about like a phased approach where you enter a, think of like a gateway, and there's options on your documents from how like maybe there's documents that are historically relevant and they can viewed and downloaded. Maybe there's a set of documents that only should be viewed and not downloaded and then they're the ones that are just kept for historical reference and neither downloaded, or viewed. So maybe there's a way of phased approach too, to the functional requirements that was discussed a little bit in our group. The idea of what we're going to post videos too, like movies and old timey things like that. So that idea of videos versus documents and still photographs came up in our group. Question two, about the viability of that community driven description. Nathan came in and added clarity to this question too, a little trouble like you did Selena on some of the clarity of the question. Not that it's not important or can't be figured out, but I just was so enamored with the response about perhaps the community response can be like the, the Antiques Roadshow model where you come into a central place and it can be a community event and people can respond to what they see kind of thing. I thought that was a great idea. Also the Wikipedia approach where it's maybe some of the more open documents can be distributed to the community to a certain set way and then they can respond by or for those who know about that document or that photograph can respond and add details about it that would not be otherwise known, I thought was another great response to that issue of community-driven description. Question three around protocols need, most folks thought like a formal agreement in place, retaining intellectual property rights. Aligning with copyright law and downloading. Maybe the individual organizations need to think about what their own board level policy would be, what goes in, what doesn't. So some requests, responses to that protocol issue. Question four on concerns. Again, copyright law. Is it, if it's a public event, does that make it right available right away or posted on social media or YouTube? Does that make it private thing? So there's a lot of things I think to be figured out about question four and what is consent and privacy concerns? Lastly, the idea of balance between open knowledge, values and community control and privacy. There's a sort of an age threshold here we think about if it's an older, a newspaper from 1920s or 30s, perhaps that's completely open, no worries there. But if it's later in years and more recent, but still should be in a digital archive maybe that's something to try to think around a little better. Anyway. I'll stop there and return to the larger group and take any comments, questions, or complaints about what we just did. Any ideas or offerings before we move to our last thing for today? Anybody have any comments? Struck you as important or highlights? [overlapping voices] [Speaker 1] This roadshow thing where, that model where only that stuff that you're comfortable letting out in the public is terrific. Coupled with that, maybe slowly phased in group to address earning trust, earning some skill with the actual doing of what we're trying to do. You know, practice makes perfect type thing. I've had some great ideas. [Mike Foreman] Yeah, I like that too. Maybe because I just like that TV show when it comes on. I don't know. Maybe that's why I like it so much. I think it's an excellent model to bring the community to a certain place and show what the history and legacy of any particular community could be. Any other last thoughts? Nathan Hall. [Nathan Hall] I just wanted to say I really appreciate the ideas that are coming out of the groups and the questions. I also wanted to say, I'm sorry for the jargon. My own jargon's invisible to me, of course. So I'll try to look at it more critically for the next sessions. Yeah. So I apologize for the questions that were not phrased in a way that was as accessible as they could have been. That's my responsibility. So thank you for bearing with us and for muddling along regardless. [Mike Foreman] Thanks, Nathan. [overlapping voices] [Speaker 1] I brought up the jargon issue and I apologize to you, Nathan I am a consulting engineer, retired now, and I have always drifted into professional jargon when I was giving talks and addresses. So I know why it how I how I should not have done that. [Nathan Hall] No, I appreciate. I want this to be as accessible and engaging for everyone, so thank you for mentioning it. [Mike Foreman] Thank you, Nathan, yes we'll work on it with you if there's those kinds of issues for next session, certainly not a deal breaker and it's important for you and Alex to obtain the kinds of responses that you need for your work. So no worries on that. Thank you for your comment though. Last chance for a comment before we move into our shared goal statement, we had anybody? [Nathan Hall] Did Alex review her group already? She did. She was first. [Nathan Hall] Alright. Okay. That's why I was going in order down my list, down the agenda. [Mike Foreman] Thank you. Yeah, no worries. [Speaker 8] I wasn't here last week so I was just curious just for me if Nathan could, that Texas model that he showed, if he could maybe just briefly connect what we're what he's proposing and what that was an example of so I can gain an understanding and I'm sorry for not being here last week, but you can see my crutches in the background. So I did have a bonafide excuse, but I do like to understand what the product is, what Nathan wants and I'll shut up. [Nathan Hall] So you're asking [Mike Foreman] No worries. [Nathan Hall] Sorry. [Mike Foreman] Nathan maybe you show that map that you showed Kelly and I last week. That was very informative. [Nathan Hall] Okay. So I guess just for starters, [speaker 8], that's a, what I showed from Texas was a sort of a mature version of what we're trying to do. I mean, they've been doing this for over 15, probably 18 years. And that was where I started practicing as a librarian or is it a library student. So they have lot, they've assembled collections from all over the state. And I'm hoping to do something similar so they can be viewed together and so that research can be done on them in a central location, but without devaluing or removing from the owning institutions, they all still own their materials. They are, if it was lent to the university for digitization, it was digitized and then returned and then made accessible. So that's, that's the, the, that was the point of showing that is to create a layer of access. [Mike Foreman] Good. Thank you. [Speaker 5] Nathan, could you e-mail the URL to that website so that we could explore it? [Nathan Hall] Sure. I'll send that one. There's also one, there's the Digital Library of Georgia and the Digital Library of the Caribbean. And I'll show links of all of them. I think the Great Chicago or the Greater Chicago area as well that I like to point to. [Speaker 5] Thank you. [Nathan Hall] You bet. [Mike Foreman] Thank you, [speaker 8, speaker 5]. Right. We're going to spend just a very few minutes looking at a shared goal statement. And if you'd go back to your Google Doc for a moment, we'd really appreciate it for the last time today. And that's listed at the very bottom on page nine. So the purpose of this which we discussed a little bit, it's sort of an add-on to the, to this idea of a digital archive and community sharing. But we wanted to bring the group together as a, and this is one means to draw up, if you will, the ideas around a robust digital archives. So you gave us some, some keywords last time, and Kelly and I created this draft goal statement. I want you to see it. And if you would offer any comments below to it, what's missing, what's not, but it reads like this. The Virginia Tech Library system will collaborate with public libraries, historic and service organizations, not-for-profit organizations and communities to compile a robust digital archive for capturing historic documents for widespread use by students, historians, and the public. So this just reflects our view of what this efforts about. Its draft. We'd like to just continue working on it as a way to be thinking about and bringing out questions and comments about what we're doing through these four virtual sessions. So I'll stop there and pause for any comments from you and what you think this strap goal statement is about and offer any verbal comments. I'll write them or you can write them on the Google doc for me if you'd like to do that. So I'll stop and I can't see everybody. But if you would just speak up or someone else identify a comment. What do you all think about this? Oh, somebody's writing, the armadillos writing in. Thanks, who's the armadillo? Contemporary documents graded issued? Who said that? If I may ask? [Nathan Hall] Sorry, I was muted. I added 'and contemporary.' [Mike Foreman] Oh, you did it-- [overlapping voices] [Mike Foreman] so you're the armadillo! I guess that's is that the North Texas pedigree there, Nathan? [Nathan Hall] I didn't even know I was the armadillo, but yeah. [Mike Foreman] Yeah it came up on my screen. So you were you're reflecting your Texas background. there. Anybody else want to offer a comment on what they're reading. [Selena Cozart] And I dropped it into the chat as well if you're not able to add. [Mike Foreman] Thank you so much, thank you, Selena very much. Go ahead. [Speaker 9] Is just limited to documents? Are we going to be cataloging photographs? You guys were talking about movies or other, or does documents, covers anything. [Mike Foreman] Oh, it's not it's not just documents that there, that's exactly right. I think I sort of, maybe people could, the librarians or our historical people. Documents to me, I assume lumped photographs in with documents. Now, maybe that's a mistake on my part, but to me, if there's a larger word that captures all the information we want to try to get a hold of then let's use that instead of documents in general so please suggest one if you'd like. [overlapping voices] Information media. Media. Media. Yeah. Yeah. Artifacts. [Mike Foreman] I'll put media in there slash documents for right now. Anything else? [Nathan Hall] Did somebody say artifacts also? Did I hear that? Okay. [Speaker 9] Yeah, artifacts, or materials or content? That that's sounds good, Alex. [Mike Foreman] Excellent. [Speaker 10] You mentioned maps, newspapers. And then with organizations, could you list historic like community organizations and churches? That might open up the viability of it. [Mike Foreman] Sure, we'll throw everything in now, then we'll whittle it down later if we need to, [speaker 10], that's great. I put churches in there. [Speaker 5] Don't forget fire departments. [Mike Foreman] How can we forget our public servants? I sort of lump, I don't want to like make the statement incredibly long with listing everything. So I tried to be having titles to capture, you know, groups of people, so I sort of threw fire departments in with, for, you know with not-for-profits or community organizations perhaps, [Speaker 2] Is this intended to be a dual goal? The goal collaboration as well as the product itself? [Mike Foreman] It would be in our eyes at IEN, but that does not, if Alex and Nathan think it should be more specific then certainly they would have purview there. This is just our own use. [Nathan Hall] The goal of the project is definitely to develop not just the digital archive, but basically a replicable process. So the collaborate, and that's the collaboration. [Speaker 2] Okay. [Nathan Hall] I'm trying to show this is how we think libraries can collect an equitable way in the future in addition to the other ways that they've collected traditionally. [Speaker 10] We do have a way of capturing, like I would say, a company records or a country store, their daybooks, their ledgers, things like that, a lot of people don't think of those as being of historical value, that what we're losing in those antique malls and so forth, to capture things like that. [Mike Foreman] Thank you. [Nathan Hall] Yeah, once I saw a receipt book like that, it was like here's here's what a ten pounds of flour and a wash basin cost. That was really interesting. [Alex Kinnaman] I was gonna say, ledgers are some of the most interesting things for me to page through at least. Maybe I'm biased. [Mike Foreman] Everybody. Great comments and improvements to this statement, we will continue to work on it through next week as well. So I'll turn now with a couple of minutes left before 3PM back to Nathan for final remarks and a thank you. Nathan? [Nathan Hall] Alright. Yeah. You're not muted. So I appreciate the engagement again today. And again, I apologize for the jargon and we'll work on that for next time. This is really helpful for me to see how to start gathering, not just to tell you what I'm trying to do, but also hear from the community what, what kinds of needs there were in order to build something useful to engage with that will help bring people together. So thank you for sharing your ideas and also seeing what kind of questions came up so that I can see what's what parts aren't very clear or what parts need greater engagement and communication. And because what I hear is that a lot of one-on-one work will be important in the future. And not just the future but the present too just to identify what kinds of needs not just the community has, but members within the community have, because those might vary from one group to another. We mentioned for example the digitization book mobile and [speaker 8] talked about doing that at at Calfee. We did that also, Virginia Tech engaged in that with the Montgomery Museum as well, I think on a project that, but that was actually hosted at the Blacksburg and Christiansburg libraries that must have been, [speaker 7], were you at the Christiansburg branch? [Speaker 7] It was 2016, Nathan. [Nathan Hall] Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Anyway, that didn't go into it, most of them did go into digital library. That was a different initiative, but it was, it was a digitization service that went on wheels more or less by appointment. So that was a great idea to hear again to see if there's interest in that. So yeah, so, so thank you again for your engagement and interests in the project and for sharing with me what kinds of concerns you have and how it might work for you. [Mike Foreman] Thanks, Nathan. And also just a reminder, we're going to meet again next Friday, 1-3, and we certainly want you to come back and bring her friend for sure. We have several folks who could not attend every session, so we should have new, new faces next week as well. Then on June 24th will be our final workshop session. So from here, thank you so much for coming and attending today and I appreciate your effort and energy and for Alex and Nathan, Selena and I, we'll stay maybe a minute to debrief a little bit, but thank you all and have a wonderful Memorial Day weekend. [Nathan Hall] Mike, there's a question. [Mike Foreman] Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. [Nathan Hall] You're muted, [speaker 7]. [Mike Foreman] I'm glad that everyone is muted. [ Speaker 7] Yeah. I won't be here next Friday. I have another all-day commitment. Will that session will be recorded? You guys you're recording most of the sessions, will that be available to us so that we can keep up with what's going on. [Mike Foreman] I would deflect back to Nathan and Alex. [Speaker 7] I'm seeing lots of head nodding. Thank you guys. [Nathan Hall] Was that a yes? We will record it. It will be available. And [speaker 10], did you have a question as well or was it -- [Speaker 10] Just one thought with the artifacts? Is there a chance that we would be able to delve into 3D scanning like think about company called script or something like that. If you would scan artifacts like that, how would you capture artifacts digitally? What's your approach? [Nathan Hall] I don't know if somebody planted you, but we're actually engaging in a 3D project right now on, we're digitizing on a different grant, specifically the entomology specimens. So things that are quite small. Things that fit fit on the head of the pin are difficult, but things that would fit on a quarter are about right, so we can do things larger too. And when I send out the links to existing digital initiatives that were that are similar to what we're engaging in, I'll send out a link to our 3D artifacts as well so you can see what's, what's going on there and there's a press release about that that I can that I can share too. [Speaker 10] I was going to say I like in archaeology, they're doing scans of artifacts, buildings. I mean, yeah. How far did we go anyway, I just want to put that point that out. [Mike Foreman] Thanks, [speaker 10]. [Nathan Hall] Thanks for bringing that up. It's an opportunity to brag. Alright, thank you, everybody. [Mike Foreman] Have a good weekend and holiday and we'll see you next Friday at 01:00 P.M. Thank you, everybody. [overlapping voices] Thanks, Mike. Bye, John-boy.