Muslim Leaders in Australia Say Banning Terrorism Will Ban Islam | FrontPage MagazineMuslim Leaders in Australia Say Banning Terrorism Will Ban Islam | FrontPage Magazine












































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Muslim Leaders in Australia Say Banning Terrorism Will Ban Islam
January 3, 2015 by Daniel Greenfield 229 Comments 





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They have a point. It’s just usually one that they aren’t willing to admit in public. The Jihad comes from the Koran. Every act of Muslim violence that is religiously sanctioned, from terrorism to rape, is derived from the Koran. If you ban incitement to violence against non-Muslims, you criminalize the Koran.



A Muslim cleric who preaches from certain passages of the Koran could be caught in the “broad” net of the government’s new anti-terror law, Islamic leaders have warned.
Grand Mufti of Australia Ibrahim Abu Mohammad and the Australian National Imams Council have called for the offence of “advocating terrorism” to be removed from the so-called Foreign Fighters Bill, currently before Parliament.
Islam and terrorism. The two are intertwined.
Quran (2:191-193) – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing.”
Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them.”
You can’t ban terrorism without banning Islam.
In its submission, the Islamic Council of Victoria said the new law would incriminate Muslims who support “legitimate forms of armed struggle”, including resistance to the Assad regime in Syria and the Palestinian conflict with Israel.




So the argument is that they want to promote “good terrorism” against Jews and they don’t want to be sanctioned for it. Muslim settlers. Australia clearly needs more of them to create a tolerant society. A tolerant society which promotes the “legitimate” murder of Jews.
“Criminalising the act of ‘advocating terrorism’ adds another layer of complexity to this issue. The scope of what constitutes ‘advocating terrorism’ is unclear.”
It’s not that unclear, except to Muslims, who insist that killing terrorists is terrorism… but terrorism is legitimate.
The council identified what it says is a double standard in Muslims wanting to go to Syria and Iraq to provide aid having their passports cancelled “while ignoring the travel of Zionist Jews wishing to travel to Israel – a state which illegally occupies Palestinian territory with intention of fighting in a war against Gazans and has been accused of war crimes”.
#IllridewithyouallthewaytoISIS
But setting aside whatever views anyone may have on Israel, Aussies traveling to Israel to fight with the IDF are not going to go back to Sydney and kill people. The same can’t be said for Muslim settlers in Australia traveling to join terrorist groups.
It’s not a double standard. Australia is trying to prevent terror attacks on its own soil. Muslim leaders insist that banning terrorism will outlaw their legitimate right to kill Jews and promote the murder of non-Muslims for “legitimate” reasons.
Filed Under: The Point 

About Daniel Greenfield
Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is a New York writer focusing on radical Islam. He is completing a book on the international challenges America faces in the 21st century.










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SCREW SOCIALISM



G-d Bless Australia – a better friend of the US and Israel and Civilization than the depraved, appeasing, kowtowing Socialist UK.






http://ruleofreason.blogspot.com/ Edward Cline



You forgot France.






Raymond_in_DC



Yep. The US and Australia were the only ‘No’ votes on the latest pro-Palestinian resolution in the UNSC. France voted ‘Yes’ while the UK abstained. Canada is not on the Security Council, but publicly urged a ‘No’ vote.






Dallasyaherd



Islam must colonize, if Islam does not take over the world it is a faliure. That is the supposition of the whole Koran, moderate or extremely moderate, or the most moderate, whichever term the State Deoartment racists favor today, to justify killing every non-Islamic minority in the humoungas land mass that is the greatest evil in human history, the leftist eurotrash communist Islam alliance. And the beloved Yazidi don’t count they are Muslims, remember that even when this evil is pretending to be good it is not. There are no non-Mulsims except the ultra-powerful Christians left in any Muslim country. NO LIBERAL ON THE PLANET HAS RECORDED THIS, NO , THEY DONT EVEN ADMIT IT HAPPENED THEY ACTIVEL LIE TO PRETEND IT DID NOT, by obsessing and making a boogie man about the tiny number of “right wing” Jews who no the truth.






YouHateMe



You mean metastasize, right?






pabritt



Check out this video and you will find out all you need to know about Muslims…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkQoqVoBBCk&feature=player_detailpage#t=856






tinhatter



Islam is already dying, they are killing themselves and their mad religion in the same way the 30yrs war was the death of religion in Eu.








Blake



once trudeau takes over Canada, the left and liberals can have their dream of a caliphate in canada.








Keith



According to President Obama the best friend to the US is Turkey, bar none.






pabritt



And that is about the stupidest of all he has already done. Turkey is a Muslim state and will never be our friend. Turkey will back stab the US in a heartbeat if their belief’s are attacked in any way. It was a dark day in the US when Obama was elected, he said he is Muslim and they lie for the benefit of radical Islam. The day for him to be gone is not soon enough.






YouHateMe



Forgotten that little gem. He has so many to recall.






notlopsided



Could you provide a cite to support your assertion?






MarilynA



Well, didn’t Obama say that if it came to having to choose between the USA and Islam he would choose Islam? And he does wear that Islamic ring with pledges allegiance to Allah. And he has ignored the sacrifices of blood and money and undone everything previous presidents have done to block the rise to power of the Militant Islamists in the Middle East. Thanks to Obama’s pro terrorist policies, They now control Iraq, Syria, and most of the other Middle eastern countries. remember Benghazi? Obama’s state dept. was running guns to the Islamic terrorists and it’s my opinion that Assad sent in his men to take out those arming the opposition. On the other hand, there is some claims that Obama needed a reason to release the “Blind Sheik” who was the mastermind of the first World Trade center bombing (and is considered a martyr in Islamic countries) and Obama and the Islamists planned to kidnap the Ambassador and do a trade. The only problem was that the Ambassador died of smoke inhalation and that screwed up the deal. Do I need to go on?






notlopsided



“Well, didn’t Obama say that if it came to having to choose between the USA and Islam he would choose Islam?” That you believe he said that is scary. That you believe he COULD say that is even more scary. 
“And he has ignored the sacrifices of blood and money and undone everything previous presidents have done to block the rise to power of the Militant Islamists in the Middle East.”
The fact that something on your level actually has the power to choose my representatives in Congress as well as the President is the most depressing thought of the day. Please understand that you have zero comprehension of anything regarding world affairs. I advise you to get your IQ tested so that at least, in the words of Dirty Harry, you can know your limitations.






Moa



In Audacity of Hope, page 261 Obama wrote ”

In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark
underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”

This is taken as he will stand with Muslims. Couple that with his speeches to the United Nations where he said, 

The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.
Yet to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the
hate we see when the image of Jesus Christ is desecrated, churches are
destroyed, or the Holocaust is denied.

The first sentence is anti-First Amendment, anti-Enlightenment. pro-Sharia and outright Orwellian dictation about what people pay say (and thus, think). The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence – yet Barack Hussein Obama has dictated what is acceptable to say on the subject. Obama’s form of socialism is clearly fascist (Fascism is a socialist ideology, both the Italian socialists and German National Socialists were the archetypical fascists, but today’s Democrats in the US are following the EXACT same trajectory; gun grabs; regulating every aspect of your life; using State organs to persecute political opposition [IRS and NSA scandals]; takeover of 1/6th the economy with Obamacare, etc etc).

The fact that something on your level actually has the power to choose
my representatives in Congress as well as the President is the most
depressing thought of the day. Please understand that you have zero
comprehension of anything regarding world affairs. I advise you to get
your IQ tested so that at least, in the words of Dirty Harry, you can
know your limitations.

I hope you were looking in the mirror when you said this. Your utter ignorance of what the State Department has been doing under Obama is completely shocking. $11 Billion in arms sales to Qatar that go straight to ISIS; the deals with Iran to give them more time to build up their nuclear arsenal; Ambassador Anne Patterson funneling money to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, then withdrawing money when al Sisi came to power – which is why the Egyptians HATE Obama and Patterson. Did you not know this? and there is soooo much more.
You are completely clueless, and quite lopsided. You are still stuck in the Matrix that the Progressives have created for you, and you accuse those who are outside the Matrix of being blind. The best thing you could do right now is to shut up and LISTEN to people who know a damn-sight more than you do about what is going on. At the moment you are spouting off based on what you think you know, rather than the objective facts. Use the Scientific Method – and you’ll see that Obama and the Democratic Party who installed him are not who you think they are. Look below the surface.






notlopsided



“This is taken as he will stand with Muslims.” I see that your reading comprehension is about 2nd grade level. To anyone with normal, adult ability to understand what they read, it means that he will protect the rights of Muslim-Americans so that something similar to the Japanese-American internment doesn’t happen to them. Idiot.
“The first sentence is anti-First Amendment, anti-Enlightenment. pro-Sharia and outright Orwellian dictation about what people pay say (and thus, think).” “Slander” is irrelevant to thought, so take your “thus” and ;stick it. There is nothing anti-1st amendment about what he says. He doesn’t say kill those who slander Mo. He doesn’t say imprison those who slander Mo. He doesn’t say that Mo slanderers should be punished in any way. He says that the future must not “belong” to Mo slanderers but Muslims must also not disparage other religions. He’s simply saying everyone should have respect for the religious beliefs of others. That’s how a non-idiot reads it, something you of course would have no clue about. 
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence” LOL! Nice circular “sentence” – gibberish. ALL of what we know about Muhammad comes from Islamic texts, primarily the Koran and Hadiths. THERE IS NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE OF MUHAMMAD’S EXISTENCE OUTSIDE OF THOSE, YOU MORON. You’ve just proven yourself a total and complete faker – thank you for saving me the trouble. This is really pointless – you are attempting to discuss things my dog has as much knowledge about as you.






Moa



Ah, I see you only understand the superficial. Lame. As stupid as you are arrogant.

To anyone with normal, adult ability to understand what they read, it means that he will protect the rights of Muslim-Americans so that something similar to the Japanese-American internment doesn’t happen to them.

Let us say that the US had National Socialist Party members inside it during World War II. These members were born in Germany, emigrated and got US citizenship, but still cling to an ideology that calls for the total subjugation of the World under their political ideology (which, incidentally is exactly what Islam also does, see Sura 9:5 and 9:29 for example). What should happen to those citizens that espouse treachery? Note: this is NOT analogous to the treatment of Japanese citizens, who did not necessarily follow the ideology of Imperial Japan – but all Muslims must follow Islamic ideology (by definition, they are not Muslim otherwise and are instead takfir).
We understand that your entire ego is based on your being sanctimonious to the point of treachery, and beyond. You are so determined to show off how tolerant you are that you completely immorally defend the Sharia (and its practitioners) that call for the conquest of the entire globe, extermination of all Jews everywhere (Google hadith Sahih Muslim 6985; stop defending this evil because it makes you evil), rape of children, slavery, murder of homosexuals, discrimination of Christians and the choice of convert-or-die for all non-Muslims, falsehood, imperialism, political and religious supremacism, destruction of Freedom of Speech, destruction of Freedom of Conscience, Ghazalian war against science and reason.
By defending this evil ideology you become evil yourself. But you are completely blind to what you are doing. A total lack of awareness of the evil you are enabling.

There is nothing anti-1st amendment about what he says.

You really do believe you own bulls!t don’t you! Your indoctrination is so strong you don’t understand how ridiculous you are being. Of course Obama’s statement is completely pro-Sharia and anti-Free Speech, and leaves no room for criticism in the vein of Baruch Spinoza (do you even know who he was and the massive contribution he made to the modern World?).
I can see you don’t actually understand what Free Speech really is. No wonder you are fooled into supporting totalitarians who dictate what can be said and thought about this matter.

ALL of what we know about Muhammad comes from Islamic texts, primarily the Koran and Hadiths. THERE IS NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE OF MUHAMMAD’S
EXISTENCE OUTSIDE OF THOSE, YOU MORON.

You are so far behind the eight-ball that I’m embarrassed for you. No wonder you are so clueless and that makes you a ‘useful idiot’ for evil men:
“An Historical Critique of Islam’s Beginnings – Jay Smith” [72 mins]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9lIuUjPs0
“The Suppressed & Hidden History of Islam” [72 mins]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dlXCrpKTt0

“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence” LOL! Nice circular
“sentence” – gibberish.

Rubbish. The sentence is not straightforward but clear enough. The problem is your reading comprehension. You were so determined to engage in an ad-hominem here you deliberately misread the sentence. Now read it again, please (especially if you watch the videos).

You’ve just proven yourself a total and complete faker – thank you for saving me the trouble. This is really pointless – you are attempting to discuss things my dog has as much knowledge about as you.

You will remain stupid as long as you persist with your closed-minded attitude. You arrogantly believe you know all there is to know about this subject and thus have stopped accepting new information. This is the opposite of the Scientific Method, which requires us to critically evaluate all claims *especially* those that may falsify our current hypothesis. I have given you two videos that demonstrate that recent archeological research shows the origins of Islam to be different to that of the Qur’an, Sira and ahadith. Islam is false, man-made, and created well after Mohammed’s death. Yes, there probably was a crazy dude Mohammed bin Abdullah, just not as Islamic orthodoxy would have you believe. My point here is that there are significant gaps in your understanding and you should listen to others so you can get up to speed – instead of insulting them.
I will say it to you again, your closed mind means you are not LISTENING to what other people are trying to tell you. Instead you are getting off on sanctimony and insulting people based on gaps in YOUR knowledge. That why I suggested you shut up and listen – because at the moment you are aiding evil men in your ignorance. You are seeing only what you want to see, and ignoring ALL the factors.






notlopsided



“Ah, I see you only understand the superficial.” What a moron sees and reality often have very little in common. Tell me, do you honestly expect me or anyone else to slog through the mounds of moron verbiage you’ve wasted untold bandwidth to post above? Here’s a clue for you. I KNOW MORE ABOUT ISLAM THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW. UNLIKE YOU, I’VE READ BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT. I HATE ISLAM MORE THAN YOU CAN EVER HATE IT. You are such an incredible moron that you’ve concluded I’m an Islam-lover or perhaps even a Muslim. I simply support our president and the Democratic agenda, primarily because I am intelligent. As I’ve shown above, progressives have a higher average IQ than twits like you. Obama is not a Muslim. Obama is our President and he has done a world of good for this country. I would prefer him to be more anti-Islam than he is. But politicians left or right have no clue about Islam.
“You arrogantly believe you know all there is to know about this subject and thus have stopped accepting new information.” LOL! A moron tries his best. And what happens if I ask you do demonstrate my having stopped accepting new info? See, the thing about me is, I’m way smarter than anyone in this thread. I’ve read way more about Islam than anyone in this thread. I’ve debated Muslims way more than anyone in this thread. If someone in this thread presents some new info that actually has a milligram of validity, I’ll listen. So far, hasn’t happened.
Sorry, I can’t waste the time necessary to address any more of your invalid, stupid points.






Moa




Tell me, do you honestly expect me or anyone else to slog through the
mounds of moron verbiage you’ve wasted untold bandwidth to post above?

Oh, I see, you are:
1) Admitting you have no facts to refute any of my argument
2) Intellectually lazy, and
3) Using the typical Leftist ploy of running away from an argument you know you cannot win.
4) Expect other people to read your posts but are so ill-mannered you do not expect the courtesy to your correspondents.

I KNOW MORE ABOUT ISLAM THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW. UNLIKE YOU, I’VE READ BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT.

FALSE, and a ridiculous and unfounded claim. Here we see your complete lack of analytical ability come to the fore. You know nothing about me (or anyone else on this thread). How many books on Islam have I read – you have no idea? how many more Muslim countries have I traveled through relative to you – you don’t know. You simply have no idea. Your argument is based only on your over-inflated ego asserting you know more – yet you clearly do not as I posted two videos with recent (within the last decade) archeological evidence and they show that your position is out-of-date. I know your arguments because I used to make them, but they are only partially true. There is yet another layer to the story. I’m trying to pass it on to you but your massively over-inflated ego is inhibiting this and keeping you stupid.

I HATE ISLAM MORE THAN YOU CAN EVER HATE IT.

What are you, 12 years old? Who would make such a ridiculous claim in lieu of an argument? but your creation of this strawman argument again demonstrates your lack of analytical abilities because at no time did I accuse you of being an Islamophile. Plus, you know nothing about me, and know nothing of mt feelings towards Islam so how could you possibly make any kind of assertion on this subject. 

You are such an incredible moron that you’ve concluded I’m an Islam-lover or perhaps even a Muslim.

Where did I say that? you really are bad at reading comprehension, aren’t you? no wonder you fall for the neo-Marxist disinformation of the Democrats.

I simply support our president and the Democratic agenda, primarily because I am intelligent.

LOL! supporting the President after observing the destruction he has wrought is the mark of low-intelligence in the face of overwhelming evidence that he is by far the worst, laziest and most incompetent president you have ever had. That’s why the Democratic Party was just raped at the polls – because everyone who is smarter than you can see the obvious. The Democrat agenda sux and is harmful to American citizens.
If you claim to hate Islam then why would you support the so called “Red-Green Alliance” (Democratic Party and Muslim Brotherhood joining forces) in any way? Here is Barry Rubin’s excellent analysis on this (you need to watch until the end when he tells why the Democrats have chosen their undeclared policy to help the Muslim Brotherhood in any way they can, eg. bombing Libya, helping the MB into Egypt, helping/arming Sunni Islamists in Syria and Iraq, etc).
“Barry Rubin: Assessing Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood” []30 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNQCEZlK5ig
If you oppose Islam and Sharia you *cannot* support the Democratic Party, because the Democratic Party’s undeclared but completely consistent policy is to support the Muslim Brotherhood. Watch the video and you’ll see.

As I’ve shown above, progressives have a higher average IQ than twits like you.

FALSE. The correlation that Yale found was that Tea Partiers have higher scientific comprehension than average (and there was no correlation with other political groups). The Professor fell into to the disinformation of MSNBC, but the science proved him wrong.
“Prof sets out to prove tea partiers are stupid, admits he was wrong”
http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/17/prof-sets-out-to-prove-tea-partiers-are-stupid-admits-he-was-wrong/
Furthermore, you argument is also FALSE because you don’t know anything about who else is reading this thread. I have a PhD in Astrophysics (Gravitational Microlensing) but would never make the ridiculous claim you did. Furthermore, I don’t assert I’m intelligent to try win a debate (such assertions demonstrate the opposite, that one is actually rather unintelligent) but instead try an persuade with logic and objective facts (which I have given in you the form of numerous videos and links to support my argument).

Obama is not a Muslim.

If you are born to a Muslim father you become Muslim. That is why Obama has the middle name “Hussein” (which only Muslim children can have), because he was born Muslim. The Muslim World all think he is Muslim, if you ever bother to listen to them. He studied at a mosque in Indonesia when growing up. 
Now, I don’t believe that Obama is a practicing Muslim, because he is a neo-Marxist (and they are generally atheists), but that makes Obama an apostate instead (but still technically Muslim – and certainly with Muslim sympathies and very many Muslim Brotherhood members in ranking positions in his Administration).

Obama is our President and he has done a world of good for this country.

What do you consider “good”?
1) Massively increasing racial divisiveness to levels not seen since the 1960s (when the racists of the Democratic Party vehemently opposed the civil rights laws the Republicans were trying to pass) ?
2) The illegal war on Libya that created a base of Al Qaeda ?
3) Handing Egypt over to the Muslim Brotherhood. The *continued* support of Obama and Ambassador Patterson for the Muslim Brotherhood that continues – which makes them persona-non-grata in Egypt?
4) Funding of the Hamas terrorist group?
5) Perpetual leaks of sensitive Israeli defense information? 
6) Trampling on the Constitution and assaults on 1st, 2nd, 4th and 10th Amendments.
7) Abandonment of Czechs, Poles and Romanians to Russians ?
8) Withdrawal from Iraq which resulted in space for ISIS (Al Qaeda in Iraq) to reconstitute – which was foreseen in 2005.
9) Use of IRS to target political opponents?
9) Use of NSA to spy on ALL citizens?
10) Running up $8 Trillion in debt, for no gain.
11) Cronyism with taxpayer money going directly to his Wall Street buddies ?
12) Lying about the motivations of attackers in Benghazi and creating the first political prisoner in the US in 150 years for making a crappy but TRUE video about Mohammed ?
13) “Obamacare” – the disaster that has worsened health care for many Americans. but everything massively more expensive, cost a huge amount to taxpayers, not covered any more people, gives control of 1/6th of the US economy to the Government, and whose train-wreck disasters are still arriving down the pipeline on a regular basis.
14) Illegal immigration that destroys wages, ensures poor blacks can never find jobs, just so the Democrats more future voters (thus effectively disenfranchising native-born US citizens).
15) Release of jihadis from Guantanamo, where they go on to murder more people.
16) At least 76 instances of Lawlessness:
http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/07/ted-cruz-releases-definitive-list-of-76-lawless-obama-actions/
and it is only going to get worse.

would prefer him to be more anti-Islam than he is.

He is pro-Islam and pro-Sharia. He is not anti-Islam and does the minimum necessary so he is not impeached. The sortie-rate for airstrikes in Iraq could be around 100 times the rate they are now (based on the airpower available and statements by Air Force and Navy officers), but they choose not to. Why are they not crushing ISIS?

But politicians left or right have no clue about Islam.

Most don’t. Some do and these are Republicans like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Louie Gohmert, Trey Gowdy, Michelle Bachmann. I’m sure some Democrats also understand but since of the undeclared alliance between the Democrats and the Muslim Brotherhood they cannot speak out.
If you want a strong US opposing Islam (which needs to be resisted in the ideological battlespace by telling the truth about it, even more than military action) then Ted Cruz is your man. You don’t have to like his other policy positions, but if you hate Islam as much as you claim then you should listen to Ted Cruz’s statements on the subject.






Dave



Thank you Moa for your reasoned, articulate response and arguments (something a “progressive liberal” seems to be incapable of producing). I’m afraid, in the end, there is not a big difference between a “progressive liberal” (weird term really given what one sees from that camp, I.e Democrats in general) and an ISIS caliphate in the sense that both end in the totalitarian death grip; that ugly culture of death that St. John Paul so prophetically and aptly described. 






notlopsided



“Oh, I see, you are:” 
As if I give a shet what you see. Have you already forgotten that you’ve proven yourself a total ignoramus re Islam (remember your gem of a “sentence” that began AND ended with your non-existent “historical evidence”?) and therefore, that you attempting to write about it only demonstrates that you’re a faker, i.e. a liar? Yes, I understand, you want to play with the big kids, but I have better things to do than read mounds of empty verbiage from a liar.






Moa



Again, you never bothered to check the videos I have supplied that show your position comes from knowing only half the story.
You can continue to remain ignorant if you want, all the while holding yourself to be more knowledgeable than others.
I mean, you assert that you are smarter than everyone else here, so you have something better than a PhD in Astrophysics then? please let us know your accomplishment, because the way you have been making your argument it rests on your assumed greater intelligence, education and abilities of analysis. Unless you want to invalidate your premise I suggest you let us know what it is that makes you so much smarter than the rest of us. You can’t. We know it and you know it. Like all Progressives you rely on an unearned sense of moral superiority and assumption of greater intelligence, when neither are true.
YOU are part of the problem. Your laziness and refusal to accept new data not only makes you completely un-scientific, but you are enabling evil men like B. Hussein Obama and his Democratic Party to advance the agenda of the Muslim Brotherhood around the globe. You arguments here are helping advance Qur’an Sura 9:29 – which is why all moral and Free Men oppose you. But you are not smart enough to see this yet.






notlopsided



“Again, you never bothered to check the videos” Unlike you, I don’t generally rely on videos for my education. I prefer books – you know, those things with pages and stuff.
“You can continue to remain ignorant if you want” You mean of things such as your “historical evidence” of Muhammad? Well, I think I’ll take you up on that, thanks.
“you have something better than a PhD in Astrophysics then?” I must say you have chutzpah. Had I gotten caught strutting around, pontificating about fake “historical evidence”, I’d never show my face here again, or if I did, I’d change my alias. But here you are still, the proud peacock, no doubt with a bird brain. Unbelievable.






Moa




Unlike you, I don’t generally rely on videos for my education.

What kind of idiocy is that? I get information from all sources, books, videos, talks, military reports, what the Muslims themselves say, whatever and wherever. Only an amateur stuck in the 19th Century thinks that books are the only source of information.
No wonder you are so out-of-date! Being out-of-date isn’t so bad if you have an open mind and look at new evidence – but you are so stupid you refuse to do this, even when new evidence is laid out on your feet.

“you have something better than a PhD in Astrophysics then?” I must say you have chutzpah.

You were the one strutting around claiming you were smarter than everyone here – when it is patent to everyone here you are vastly less intelligent than you think you are (as some commentators have taken the time to say to me). 
You remind me of the old joke made about people like you:
“Arguing with liberals is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over all the pieces, crap on the board, and strut around the table looking victorious.”

I gotten caught strutting around, pontificating about fake “historical evidence”, I’d never show my face here again, or if I did, I’d change my alias. But here you are still, the proud peacock, no doubt with a bird brain. Unbelievable.

LOL! just how would you know whether the evidence I have presented was valid or not, you haven’t even looked at it. What? you think we can’t see how stupid you are, that your ‘argument’ consists of your claiming false intellectual and moral superiority and of being in possession of more facts than the rest of us when I have already told you that we understood the points you already made but they are only part of the story – but your retardation is keeping you stupid and from learning anything new. No wonder you still cling to the tribe of the low-information voters when tens of millions have woken up and evolved past your emotion-driven, counter-factual tribalism.
I’ve destroyed your claims of being smarter, and I’ve put up evidence showing how the historical evidence showing that the orthodox understanding of Islam is false and does not match newly unearthed historical evidence. Does your cognitive dissonance mean you fail to parse that sentence too? I hope so – cause you have no objective facts to refute my position because you are too lazy to check the sources I have provided. Which is why David Mamet’s term applies to you – “brain dead liberal” (except the “Modern Liberals” are illiberals who crush diversity of onion).






notlopsided



“LOL! just how would you know whether the evidence I have presented was valid or not, you haven’t even looked at it.” Moa, I don’t know now if you’re playing games or if you’re truly that stupid. I’ll remind you of what you said:
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”
Aside from the azlheimersesque repetition of the words “historical evidence”, the fact is that the sentence proves you not only an ignoramus wrt Islam, but also a pompous lying strutter. The “historical evidence” of Muhammad outside of what Islam teaches DOES NOT EXIST. THERE IS NONE. Therefore your statement is not only not valid, it is a pretentious lie.
Do you understand now, or do you need further assistance?






Curtis



Then why don’t you state your evidence to the contrary instead of attacking your antagonists?
You state you have presented evidence, where, pray tell.






Moa



Yeah, I’m just toying with ya to see how easily you can be induced to apoplexy, since you seem to think literary critique constitutes some defense of a pro-Muslim Brotherhood voting record (which is what voting for Democrats is, if you have been paying attention).

The “historical evidence” of Muhammad outside of what Islam teaches DOES
NOT EXIST. THERE IS NONE. Therefore your statement is not only not
valid, it is a pretentious lie.

Cool, an actual debating position, now we can make progress, If you include the word “contemporary” in your statement then we agree. There is no contemporary historical evidence for Mohammed. 
There is later historical circumstantial evidence (eg. later coinage), so there may have been a Mohammed bin Adbullah (or there may not). What is clear is that the Mohammed given by the orthodox Islamic description is fictional. The existing myth was appropriated by Caliph al-Malik and fabricated further to further his imperial ambitions.
What has emerged, and why the references I gave may interest you, is that the historical evidence being uncovered and literary analyses of the earliest Qur’an (of course, much later than Caliph Uthman, as his codification seems mythological too) show that not only is there no contemporary evidence for Mohammed but the archeology shows that Petra was the center of their cult (not Mecca as Islamic orthodoxy claims) and that the Qur’an was clearly not divinely authored due to the number of recensions in the earliest copies. I was trying to give you the evidence so you can wipe the floor with Islamists – and so you never refer to the Islamic creation mythology again, except to destroy it with the historical record.
So, what I was trying to point out to you is that there are relatively recent discoveries that provide *evidence* that slam’s false and Mohammed fictional. We knew that already based on reasoning alone, but this is concrete proof that destroys the claims of Islamic scholars. Those videos lay it out nicely (eg. your books may not lay out the satellite imagery evidence for Petra as the origin of the cult, and not Mecca).
Now we’re have cleared that up we can move on. The Democratic Party clearly has chosen the Muslim Brotherhood as an ally for their neo-Marxist struggle against the traditional West (why else would Hillary Clinton so disgustingly push the and First Amendment, pro-Sharia UN HRC 16/18 to criminalize criticism of Islam ?). Now you may have been deceived by this disinformation into thinking that their involuntary (and thus, immoral) “socialist” wealth-confiscation was the only way to help people. It is not! In fact the voluntary (and thus, moral) “charity” of the Republicans (especially the Libertarians and Tea Party/Conservatives) is not only more efficient (since 60% isn’t consumed by Big State bureaucracy) it is also more-agile (citizens and local government respond far more quickly than dinosaur Federal Government).
So I suggest to you, while we believed and hoped for the promises of healing that Barack Hussein Obama made, there is no reason to defend him or his pro-Sharia Democratic Party now. Take a look with fresh eyes at what his opponents are saying but only directly from their own mouths (and not distorted by the lying media with their own pro-Sharia, pro-Big State Cultural Marxist agenda). 
There is no substitute for Liberty (and the Democratic Party intend to regulate EVERY aspect of your life, which is why Sharia would be a useful tool for them).






notlopsided



“‘Cool, an actual debating position, now we can make progress,” LOL! It’s only the third time I’ve posted the same thing. You realized I wasn’t going to let it go and that you’d better try some damage control. So now you’ve spent all day on google to try to figure out how to extricate yourself from the position you put yourself in. Your solution: you’ll try to inundate with mounds of copy and paste erudition, hoping to mask your blunder. No interest, sorry.






Moa




It’s only the third time I’ve posted the same thing.

FALSE. You have not posted the same thing, because you earlier wrote this (which is also FALSE and shows how little you actually know):

ALL of what we know about Muhammad comes from Islamic texts, primarily the Koran and Hadiths.

Most of the information about Mohammed does not come from the Qur’an, or hadith. It comes of the Sira and the Commentaries who expand the character. Your statement was false and have amply demonstrated it was false by linking to *non-contemporary* historical evidence but still evidence none-the-less. Its like you don’t even understand the Qur’an and that Mohammed is only mentioned by title (Mohammed is a title, not a personal name) four times. The rest are indirect references. It is similar to the fact that Mecca is not mentioned directly, only Bakkah and The Settlement, which seems most likely to have been Petra – until later changed by Abd al-Malik. Did you not know this?

You realized I wasn’t going to let it go and that you’d better try some damage control.

Nope. If you weren’t so retarded you would have noticed that my statements have been consistent from the start. It is you who has changed your tune.

So now you’ve spent all day on google to try to figure out how to extricate yourself from the position you put yourself in.

Nope, I’m a busy person with a very busy professional and social life. I also live in a different timezone. But your complete parochialism and lack of imagination means it never crossed your closed mind that this could be the case. As usual, you invent strawmen about people on this thread. It really is pathetic.

Your solution: you’ll try to inundate with mounds of copy and paste erudition, hoping to mask your blunder

Translation: you’ve lost the debate and all your typical Leftist bs tactics of ad-hominem were easily seen through and defeated. Now you’ll flee from your crushing rout and claim it was a victory. You are indeed the proverbial pigeon – except that people don’t avoid pidgeons in the same way they must assuredly avoid your company (which is why you are so desperate to claim completely unearned intellectual superiority – despite you VOTING for those that support the Muslim Brotherhood because you never did the research).

No interest, sorry.

I’m not writing for you – you’re too crazy, irrational, obnoxious and unscientific to convince with new facts and reason. I’m writing for the people following this thread who can see you have nothing to counter my position. You’re just another brain dead illiberal who arrogantly thinks they know better than everyone else when in fact you know only half-the-story, and your action (supporting B. Hussein Obama, even now with all he has done for the Muslim Brotherhood) result in the advancement of the greatest evil men have ever known. Begone fool.






notlopsided



This is a riot. Wish I had more time to watch you squirm, but life beckons. I’ll leave you with one more instance of your gem that’s cost you so many hours:
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”
BTW, I do feel duty bound to inform you that I’ve reported you to the Department of Redundancy Department.
The good news is, in your frantic googling about Islam while trying to save face, you’ve actually educated yourself to a small degree, so now, when you type your mounds of crap, it will only be 95% bs. , 
From the Wikipedia entry on Sirah, opening paragraph: The Sīrat Rasūl Allāh (Life of the Messenger of God; Arabic: سيرة رسول الله‎) or Al-sīra al-Nabawiyya (The Life of the Prophet; Arabic: السيرة النبوية‎) or just Al-sīra, is the Arabic term used for the various traditional Muslim biographies of Muhammad from which, ***in addition to the Qur’an and Hadith***, most historical information about his life and the early period of Islam is derived. [emphasis mine]
WP Hadith, first paragraph: “Hadith (/ˈhædɪθ/[1] or /hɑːˈdiːθ/;[2] Arabic: حديث‎) in Muslim religious use is often translated as “prophetic traditions”, meaning the corpus of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.”
I suppose in your googlemania, the above sort of escaped you. Small wonder. Of course, what is truly important here is that nothing has changed – the extraislamic “historical evidence” that you referenced exists only between your ears and was just you spouting your bs in your inimitable way.






Moa




BTW, I do feel duty bound to inform you that I’ve reported you to the Department of Redundancy Department.

Of course you would (even in jest). Big State Socialism is also known as ‘Fascism’. You don’t even understand how you are the enemy of all Free Men and how you support the sociopaths growing of the Big State – which is why you voted for a party that is sheltering and funding the Muslim Brotherhood.
I’ll quote you again, because in your frantic googling you have STILL not watched the videos I mentioned:

ALL of what we know about Muhammad comes from Islamic texts, primarily the Koran and Hadiths.

Of note is the word “ALL”. Do you know what ALL means? what happens if we also receive informnation from other sources, such as coins, dates on coins, inscriptions, architecture, later commentaries from non-Islamic sources, etc. It means that your claim of “ALL” is false. Even the quote you googled says “MOST” historical information. Do you even understand the difference between “MOST” and “ALL”? they are not the same – which is why your argument has been FALSE this entire time. 
Now, you will try and argue that non-Islamic sources don’t describe Mohammed. But here is the fact you are missing, the Islamic source could not possibly describe Mohammed either, many of them were written decades or even centuries after he was supposed to have died. – and the extra-Islamic sources are useful in providing INFORMATION ABOUT MOHAMMED in the sense that the claims of orthodox Islamic mythology CANNOT BE TRUE because the objective archeology (ie. the “historical facts” I mentioned, as laid out for you that you STILL refuse to look at like the intellectually lazy muppet you are) counters the false orthodox narrative.
Shall I repeat my self, you said ALL information about Mohammed comes from Islamic texts. Your own google sources show this is FALSE because they only claim that MOST information comes from text. I say there are extra-textual sources of information too, and Google clearly agrees with me. There should be nothing difficult in you grokking this, but apparently the difference between ALL and MOST is too much for you to handle – and your refusal to properly listen to new data is keeping you repeating your same false claim again and again. That wouldn’t matter except when Muslims defeat you it hurts the cause of Free Men (not that you seem to care, you vote for the Big State authoritarian “Progressive” who have fascist plans to control the economy and totalitarian impulses about what constitutes their Cultural Marxist Politically Correct “Truth”).

the extraislamic “historical evidence” that you referenced exists only between your ears and was just you spouting your bs in your inimitable way.

I will say it again since you are an intellectual pigmy: how can you make any claim about the veracity of the extra-Islamic historical evidence when you don’t even know what that evidence is? it’s just failure after failure of analysis with you. I’m trying to help you understand by making it easy for you and laying all the evidence at your feet, but you are so stupid you won’t look at it while still making false claims in your ignorant state. It’s your arrogance getting in the way again.






notlopsided



“Of note is the word “ALL”. Do you know what ALL means? what happens if we also receive informnation from other sources, such as coins, dates on coins, inscriptions, architecture, later commentaries from non-Islamic sources, etc.”
LOL! You don’t care how silly you look in your quest to extricate yourself from your predicament. Let me remind you (and everyone else) of what you said: 
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”
Coins and other irrelevancies have exactly zero to do with “historical evidence” of Muhammad. They are all secondary sources deriving from Muslim scripture, so don’t count any more than a 20th century biography of Muhammad counts. The telling thing is that you continue to flail away, frantically googling and spitting out one panicked irrelevancy after the next, yet somehow fail to realize that I am far too knowledgeable and intelligent to allow you to get away with it.
Why not just be honest, admit you know nothing about Islam and that you fucked up by pretending you did, and we call it a day?
You know, I’m really a nice guy. I can prove it. A not very nice guy would have asked you to specify precisely what Islam teaches about Muhammad that is contradicted by the so-called “historical evidence”, that you now know, thanks to me, is Islamic by definition. You’d have been in quite a fix had I done so. But, as I said, I’m a nice guy, even to pretentious, faking twits like you.






Moa



In lieu of an argument, since you cannot refute the facts I have presented that have shredded your bs point-by-point you ignore your failure and instead obsess over this syntactically clumsy but semantically correct sentence: 

The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence

Since your retardation is nearly total (because you have to pick on sentence structure since all your other claims have been destroyed):

(The historical evidence shows that) the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence

That’s still probably too hard for you. Here’s a version of the same sentence that may just be within your feigned comprehension ability:

the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence

Now you finally understand the sentence we can get on to the core issue – that the Mohammed of orthodox Islam does not match the historical evidence.
You say that all that is known about Mohammed comes from the Qur’an, ahadith and Sira, and that there is no more information. I disagree and say that there is emerging historical evidence that shows that what is said about Mohammed in those traditional sources is, in fact, false. This constitutes new extra-Islamic information based on the research of people like Dr Tom Holland, Dr Patricia Kroener, Jay Smith, etc etc.

Coins and other irrelevancies have exactly zero to do with “historical evidence” of Muhammad.

This is just a stupid statement that shows you don’t understand archeology at all. It is unbelievable you’d make such a statement in a historical discussion. So, please elaborate because you must have meant something other than that sentence.

They are all secondary sources deriving from Muslim scripture, so don’t count any more than a 20th century biography of Muhammad counts.

Another completely stupid statement. Coins are independent of scripture – especially when the scripture has come AFTER the coins. You don’t understand this because you are far behind the eight-ball. Your lack of understanding is because you seem to believe the orthodox islamic narrative, that Calipth Uthman codified the Qur’an. The historical evidence shows that this is not true. This is why you cannot understand the information I’m giving you. You are stuck with a completely outdated-view of the state-of-play and simply cannot understand the more evolved historical view I’m presenting. Which is why you should put down your out-of-date books and look at the more up-to-date videos I have presented.

The telling thing is that you continue to flail away, frantically googling and spitting out one panicked irrelevancy after the next, yet somehow fail to realize that I am far too knowledgeable and intelligent
to allow you to get away with it.

You really are a mega-douche of the worst kind. You have an out-of-date appreciation of the current state of research but are so arrogant you assume you know everything already. This is what is keeping you stupid – and why you cannot understand new information.
Furthermore, you assume that I need to Google to debate you. Not so. Because you have an old and discredited worldview I don’t need to – your arguments are so feeble it is less effort than swatting a fly. Again you are just indulging in your strawmen fallacy in lieu of an actual argument.

I am far too knowledgeable and intelligent to allow you to get away with it.

I love this, it is hilarious in its stupidity. If you were, in fact, intelligent you wouldn’t assert it, you would demonstrate it – but instead you demonstrate not only intellectual stupidity but a total lack of wisdom and self-awareness. It is amazing to see someone could be so detached from understanding their own ignorance.

Why not just be honest, admit you know nothing about Islam and that you fucked up by pretending you did, and we call it a day?

LOL. It is you who has the out-of-date view on Islam. You are still so backward you think all that there is to know comes from its scriptures alone. Archeology seems to be an utterly foreign concept to you – and how archeological information is actually more concrete and more valuable than the written mythology.

You know, I’m really a nice guy. I can prove it.

Nope, you are an A$ $h0le with a Capital A and I can prove it. You came on these forums assuming you knew everything there is to know and that everybody else knew nothing. Then you claimed false moral superiority which is why you elected the neo-Marxist to office and his Party that is allied with the Muslim Brotherhood. Then you lamented how bad it was that people like us had any say in choosing your representative. You also claimed to be vastly more intelligent.
What kind of fsckwit claims this when they know absolutely nothing of the people they are talking to? and even if your claims were all true (when they have been shown to be ALL false) then you would still lack wisdom in saying them here.
This makes you not a nice guy at all. It makes you an A$ $h0le, unwise, ignorant, arrogant, closed-minded, bigoted and un-scientific. 
This is why I brought out the flamethrower on you – because you had unfairly attacked the people here, and were WRONG in everything you have written (and remain wrong, even now – and the evidence I have provided, but you cannot admit to looking at, shows).

A not very nice guy would have asked you to specify precisely what Islam teaches about Muhammad that is contradicted by the so-called “historical evidence”, that you now know, thanks to me, is Islamic by
definition.

Well, how about Mohammed was not the author of the Qur’an – as proven by variances in the ten manuscripts we have?
How about the fact that there are no Uthmanic manuscripts, which make that claim false – because Mohammed had not dictated the Qur’an and your orthodox Islamic scriptures claim? is the information contained in these manuscripts not from ‘Islamic sources’ and sheds light on knowledge of Mohammed?
How about the name Mohammed is mentioned on coins before parts of the manuscripts were found – and appeared at the time of Abd al-Malik (since he invented the earliest Qur’an for political purposes). Are coins minted by Caliph Abd al-Malik not ‘an Islamic source’?
How about the claim that Mohammed came from Mecca is false, because the qibla for a century are oriented toward Petra, then are oriented in varying directions during times of civil war, and do not become standardized toward Mecca until two centuries after Mohammed’s supposed death? are the earliest mosques not ‘Islamic sources’?
How about the fact that at the time of the allegedly-islamic Arabic conquest of the ancient world they never refer to Islam or themselves as Muslims. They refer to themselves as ‘Saracens’, ‘Hagarenes’, ‘Muhajjaroun’ etc, but never Muslims and never talk about Islam. Are the words of these conquers not ‘Islamic sources’ (despite being recorded by CONTEMPORARY non-Islamic historians).
 You don’t know any of this, do you? you are out-of-date.

They are all secondary sources deriving from Muslim scripture

You don’t seem to understand the reliability of primary sources and secondary sources very well. 
An analysis of a *primary Islamic source* made in the 21st Century is often better than a 10th Century analysis because we have wider contextual knowledge, better science (eg. radiocarbon dating), numerous copies with which we can cross-correlate to obtain even more information about the reliability of the source itself, etc. 
A ‘secondary source’, such as contemporary commentaries from Byzantines are not as good. This is true. But since we have no firsthand Arab accounts from that time these are still useful as they are temporally synchronous, even if they project a different worldview (which decreases reliability – but enables us to fix dates).
Now, we can spiral into pedantry – debating whether a source is primary based on who created/record it and who analyzed/reported it. What matters is the reliability of the information (which is more than a simple boolean true/false, but can be viewed in the same way scientific ‘uncertainty’ is – if you understand science technqiues at all, possibly not). The fact of the matter is that NOT ALL reliable knowledge of Mohammed comes from Islamic scripture and is still reliable – despite the primary source being ‘Muslims’/Arabs. Coins are a primary source, and their dates provide useful information. The absence of coins provides even more information. Similarly, the architecture provides information just as the absence of certain features also provides information to the knowledge of who Mohammed allegedly was. Textual analysis and comparisons provide lots of information about Mohammed (eg. mostly he cannot have been the author of the Qur’an).
I’m sorry if these concepts are too sophisticated for you. Why don’t you take it up with the researchers are Oxford and Cambridge and in Denmark, or the Germans with their copy of the Sa’ana Qur’an, or those looking at early mosques using satellite imagery.
But your emphasis on the outdated-memes means you are missing out on learning more information about ‘Mohammed':
“The Classical Debates – Jay Smith vs. Dr. Shabir Ally”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWHV9VnOJtc






notlopsided



“In lieu of an argument, since you cannot refute the facts I have presented” You seem to specialize in public masturbation – declaring yourself “the winner” or that I cannot refute your, ahem, “facts”, etc. Earth to Moa – you fucked up royally when you said this:
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”
None of your “facts” do anything to mitigate your error (therefore I have no interest in attempting to refute or even discuss them) and NOTHING you do will help you recover except an honest admission. You should have learned long ago that Inundating with irrelevant bs in an attempt to distract from this colossal misstep of yours won’t work with me.






Moa



I’ve already pointed out that:

“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”

Is semantically equivalent to

“the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”

which part of this is too hard for you little brain to get.

herefore I have no interest in attempting to refute or even discuss them

It’s because you CAN’T. If you could you assuredly would. You’re just a pigeon strutting around the chessboard.
This is a very common tactic from Lefties. You are hardly original in this way of admitting defeat without your ego letting you actually admit defeat. We see this in the lame “TL;DR” meme – that is an admission that you are not only lazy and not only wrong but lack the wisdom to accept a superior hypothesis.
It is a general problem that Lefties follow a classical philosophical approach while the political Right follows a scientific approach. Classical philosophy starts with axioms and derives everything from there. Observations that conflict with the a priory axioms are rejected. This is what we see you doing, and what the Left does all the time (which is why its positions increasingly diverge from usefulness and reality as time progresses).
The scientific approach is favored by the political Right. While there is an initial hypothesis this is continually discarded in favor of new information and a new hypothesis formed. A great example of this is the US ‘Affirmative Action’ where the Left asserts this must be good because it follows their axioms while the Right show that the evidence shows it is harmful to blacks and non-blacks alike (discriminating against non-blacks, as well as raising questions as to whether a back student was competent enough to receive a contested place, and also being racist as it implies that blacks are not the equal to non-backs, which is a suggestion the Right finds absolutely disgusting but the Left seems to love).
Using the dogmatic and derivative approach of classical philosophy held civilization back for a long time, until we discovered empiricism and the Scientific Method. This is why I urge you to start using the Scientific Method yourself. You will discover that you are mistaking the utter foolishness of your approach for wisdom.
As Carl Sagan said:

In science it often happens that scientists say, ‘You know that’s a really good argument; my position is mistaken,’ and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn’t happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.”

I can only lead you to water, but I cannot make you think.






notlopsided



“It’s because you CAN’T” Well, if they’re facts, obviously I can’t. The question is, why would I want to? Nothing you’ve posted in any way helps your case, so I have no interest in wasting time debating them. 
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence” is still not only idiotic (it’s not “semantically equivalent” to anything – it’s just semantically wrong. Not only is it redundant, it also misuses “teach”. Orthodox Islam doesn’t teach Muhammad, it teaches ABOUT Muhammad.), it is also indisputably, factually incorrect.






Moa



Lame. You have NOTHING. At least you admit it now.






notlopsided



Psst – I don’t need anything. You’re the one who blundered, not I.






Moa



Nonsense. I have clarified repeatedly. I have provided evidence. I have demonstrated your hubris. You remain ignorant because you choose to. I cannot help you further. You will remain anti-scientific and you will aid the immoral socialists and their Muslim Brotherhood allies, and numerous other errors as long as you refuse to learn. Warmest wishes for you life – I hope one day you gain the wisdom that humility, rationality and empiricism can bring.






notlopsided



“I have clarified repeatedly” No, you’ve bullshitted, inundated, attempted to befog, but you’ve done nothing to change the simple fact that you blundered. There are only two ways for you to erase that blunder. The first is to specify the historical evidence about Muhammad that you referred to as not matching what Islam teaches about Muhammad. Of course, you can’t do that, since they are one and the same. The second is to admit the error and come clean. You won’t do that due to various character flaws. Anyway, it’s just so much fun watching your various attempts at avoidance. 
In case you’ve forgotten, here’s your gem once again:
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”
Aside from its factual error, that you could refer to the above as “semantically correct” speaks volumes about just how delusional you are.






Moa



I extend an olive branch and you respond with this. You are not a nice person at all. You have a truly evil heart. I hope this changes before you push everyone in your life away.

The first is to specify the historical evidence about Muhammad that you referred to as not matching what Islam teaches about Muhammad.

How do the videos I have provided for your convenience not done this? What flaw is in their analysis?

Aside from its factual error

What is the error of fact? 
How is the sentence semantically different from “the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence” ?
You assert error but have yet to demonstrate with facts even once. Show us your proof ! (particularly in reference to those videos I have supplied earlier).






notlopsided



Anyone can go to Wikipedia and verify my contention that there is no “historical evidence” of Muhammad outside of Muslim sources. OK, I lied. If you go to the article titled “Historicity of Muhammad”, a very few non-Muslim references to Muhammad do exist, and I’ll admit I was not aware of them. Problem is, they are mere mentions of the name, they do not establish anything re his character. You said
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”
Except for what Islam teaches about Muhammad via its tests, there is no “historical evidence” except a few mentions of the name. Therefore, nothing in whatever videos you found in your mad quest for redemption can be of use to you. Again, your statement is not only grammatically ridiculous, it is easily demonstrable as being factually wrong.






Moa



Orthodox Islamic tradition teaches Mohammed came from Mecca, is this true or false?






notlopsided



If Islam says it, it must be true.






Moa



Question 2)
Please share. On what basis would you say this? that whatever Islam asserts must be true?
Question 3) 
Orthodox Islamic tradition teaches that the qibla of every mosque points toward Mohammed’s Ka’aba (after changing from Jerusalem) since 624 CE, true or false?






notlopsided



Please fuck off. You don’t get to ask the questions. I’m now going to prove you an alzheimic moron.
“On what basis would you say this? that whatever Islam asserts must be true?”
Only a complete moron would wonder whether any non- Muslim would believe that whatever Islam asserts must be true.
“Orthodox Islamic tradition teaches that the qibla of every mosque points toward Mohammed’s Ka’aba (after changing from Jerusalem) since 624 CE, true or false?”
Your “mind” is wandering. Let me refresh your memory re what you said:
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”
The “historical evidence” must be about Muhammad, not about mosques. Early onset Alzheimers is very sad.






Moa



Is this evidence you are a ‘nice guy’ ? you claimed to be.
You said:

Only a complete moron would wonder whether any non- Muslim would believe that whatever Islam asserts must be true.

after you said:

If Islam says it, it must be true.

hence the question to establish your belief, habibi.

The “historical evidence” must be about Muhammad, not about mosques.

Oh believe me, it is about Mohammed. I’m just walking you through the logic and it will elucidate Mohammed and educate you at the same time. This can be fast and painless:
Question 3)
Orthodox Islamic tradition teaches that the qibla
of every mosque points toward Mohammed’s Ka’aba (after changing from Jerusalem) since 624 CE, true or false?

OK, I lied. If you go to the article titled “Historicity of Muhammad”, a very few non-Muslim references to Muhammad do exist, and I’ll admit I was not aware of them. Problem is, they are mere mentions of the name, they do not establish anything re his character.

Cool, you learned something already. Just a drop in the ocean of what you don’t yet know, but still something you didn’t know before.
Why are you turning the debate into Mohammed’s character.? Both your statement that I first replied to and my subsequent statements have only ever mentioned that more information about Mohammed is available than in the Islamic scriptures. This may or may not be about his character, but they are most certainly more information about Mohammed,






notlopsided



Yet more proof you are a moron, since only a moron would understand “it” in the sentence “If Islam says it, it must be true.” to be a universal “it”, as if it were not in the context of a conversation, and not referring to the “this” in the question that it was in answer to. Let me illustrate just how completely stupid you are:
Moa and Betsy are discussing Martha’s cookies. They both agree that they are the best around. Moa tells Betsy that Martha says the key is refrigerating the dough for 3 hours before baking, to which Betsy replies, well, if Martha says it, it must be true. That sets Moa’s neurons ascatter, he completely forgets the preceding question, and he blurts out, “You mean Betsy knows everything about everything in the universe?” 
It’s clear that such sophomoric nonsense is simply a function of your desperation – the more desperate you get, but more hilarious your tactics. Your blunder is compounded with each of your subsequent posts. It is truly entertaining.
“Oh believe me, it is about Mohammed. I’m just walking you through the logic and it will elucidate Mohammed and educate you at the same time. This can be fast and painless:”
LOL!! The moron who wrote “The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence” is going to educate me. A moron who can’t even figure out what noun a pronoun represents is going to educate me. Moa, GET A GRIP!






Moa



Ah, you show your love of humanity yet again. You have no idea what a fool you are making of yourself and your apoplexy is hilarious.
Why you so afraid of new information? your fear produces an emotional reaction every time. We see this in every Leftist we come across – all so driven by emotion (rather than reason) that you get soooooo angry at everything. It is just amazing to see the hate within you, and how you actually are everything you Lefties claim to despite. Angry. Irrational. Control freaks. Hateful of other people. Arrogant. Ignorant of critical facts.
Question 3)
Orthodox Islamic tradition teaches that the qibla
of every mosque points toward Mohammed’s Ka’aba (after changing from Jerusalem) since 624 CE, true or false?






notlopsided



“you show your love of humanity yet again.” Sheesh, poor boy is flailing as wildly as ever. This isn’t about me, Mo. It’s about what you said: 
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”
Here, maybe you need a bit of help. Let’s attempt to translate that statement into English:
“The Muhammad that orthodox Islam teaches about does not match the historical evidence.”
What you obviously had no clue about when you made that statement is, and as we’ve now already established, there is virtually no “historical evidence” of Muhammad that does not derive from Islamic texts. Therefore, the only way for you to validate your colossally ignorant statement is to demonstrate that orthodox Islamic teachings about Muhammad contradict Islamic texts. The stage is yours!






Moa



The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. ”
Obama
UN General Assembly
Sept 25, 2012
You proudly support this man and his neo-Marxist Democrats. You are the problem and you have no self-wareness of what you are doing at all. Instead you quibble about clumsy sentences (while coming up with and even clumsier sentence yourself).
What does is say in the byline of this website?
“Inside every Liberal is a totalitarian screaming to get out”. I saw this in you as soon as you said, “Please fuck off. You don’t get to ask the questions.” as well as you telling everyone else how they should listen to you without question because you considered yourself more intelligent, morally superior, the only one who should have a vote franchise, knew everything there was to know about Islam, the authority on writing style, a nice guy, and having no need to check any references for new information.
What you don’t understand is that within you is a totalitarian. You are on the path and you are enabling totalitarians. Your vote for the Democrats, and CONTINUED SUPPORT, has enabled them to convert Libya to a jihad state, Egypt to be conquered by the Muslim Brotherhood (fortunately the Egyptians told the evil Democrats to fsck offf now), arming jihadis in Syria, allowing Iran to continue its nuclear program unmolested by Israel, funding Hamas jihadis with a billion to slaughter Israelis, persecuting anyone who dares speak up about the Muslim Brotherhood, unconstrained illegal immigration that will result in a Charlie Hebdo attack om Free Speech in America (although Hillary Clinton gave it a good go with her evil UN HRC 16/18 Sharia-compliant anti-Free Speech work) etc.
You are part of the problem. At the moment you are completely delusional about what you are doing and who you are enabling. This is about you. Wake up from the Matrix.






notlopsided



You were supposed to either demonstrate that orthodox Islamic teachings about Muhammad contradict Islamic texts or admit that you’re an ignoramus wrt Islam. You tried to ignore your obligation by changing the subject. I don’t see any way to interpret this other than as an admission that you are an ignoramus wrt Islam.






Moa



You need to answer my question first.
And you are still a totalitarian in your heart and support totalitarians,. You are dangerous and the enemy of Free Men – but still in denial as to what you truly are.






notlopsided



“You need to answer my question first.” Maybe according to some hallucinogen-induced dream you’re experiencing, but the way debate works in reality is if you willy-nilly change the subject, nothing you write is valid.






Moa



You’re such a hypocrite. You ask questions but never answer the very simple ones I pose. You change the subject all the time from the debate to points of writing style (despite a clarification), and then propose an even more clumsy sentence as a “solution”. 
When I skewer you with a point you simply change the subject.
As I have said, you are the very things you claim to despise, yet are completely unaware of it. This makes you dangerous to Free Men.






notlopsided



Are you sure you’re an adult? Because you’re behaving like a little girl who’s burying her head between the sofa cushions and thinks no one can see her. You’ve bombarded this thread with irrelevancies ever since you were caught in your grammatical and factual blunder of a statement:
“The historical evidence shows that the Mohammed that orthodox Islam teaches does not match the historical evidence”
You’ve done so in a completely transparent attempt to distract from it. At first you tried it gradually and when that didn’t work, you figured you’d go for broke and try a sudden, complete shift. The amazing thing is that you can’t see that your childish tactics are transparent not just for me, but no doubt for all to see.
Oh, before I go, re you skewering me – hilarious – you know, they say if you continue to say such things, you’ll grow hair on your tongue.






Moa



Look at you try and change the subject back to that one sentence (since corrected twice by me, and even more clumsily by you). You are the biggest hypocrite I’ve ever come across.
The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians.
 – George Orwell
You don’t even understand which side you are on, do you? you go to bat for the authoritarians – but you have zero clues as to what you are doing.
My real question to you is, as a current Obama supporter (despite all the evidence), are you Extreme Left or merely Far Left?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TI8bO8GurcI/TMGUCecRxYI/AAAAAAAACWw/i_E8qshErRA/s1600/Political+Spectrum+Diagram+-+Domestic+Relations.jpg
Either way, you are the enemy of every Free Man – and YOU are still helping the jihadis with your excellent impression of autism and singular obsession with a sentence you clearly understand.






notlopsided



Peekaboo – I see you!






Moa



Question 3)
Orthodox Islamic tradition teaches that the qibla
of every mosque points toward Mohammed’s Ka’aba (after changing from Jerusalem) since 624 CE, true or false?






notlopsided



Before I go, I’ll thank you for admitting that you’re a complete ignoramus wrt Islam.






Moa



You know NOTHING. You can’t even answer basic questions.
Oh, When you voted Democrat, which Muslim Brotherhood agent did you intend helping to install:
“Investigative Project on Terrorism: Egyptian Magazine: Muslim Brotherhood Infiltrates Obama Administration”
http://www.investigativeproject.org/3869/egyptian-magazine-muslim-brotherhood-infiltrates#
“Jihad watch: Documents show Obama Administration’s close ties to Muslim Brotherhood”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/06/documents-show-obama-administrations-close-ties-to-muslim-brotherhood
“Barry Rubin: Assessing Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood
(and undeclared Democrat policy to support them)”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNQCEZlK5ig
You know NOTHING. It is so laughable you assert what you do (again, with no proof), when I have already taught you something you were ignorant about, and have even better stuff to show – but you are so lame you are frightened of the truth. Petrified of being shown to be wrong. At least you admit you learned something. Too bad you still don’t even know you own nature. Hopefully one day you’ll look in the mirror and understand.






Blake



can you please just stop talking. we get it: you hate America and freedom and support muslim staking over the western world. oh but I don’t have a quote so it mustn’t be true right?






notlopsided



can you please just stop talking. we get it: you hate our President and lap up the GOP idiocy that is destroying this country as if you’re a dog eating his first meal in a week.






Blake



lol the gop is destroying your country? small government and low taxes? your president is handing your country over to Mexicans and muslims on a silver platter






Dave



Blake, I don’t think it’s that he hates America. Progressive liberals are so full of love for themselves they have no room for love of anything else. (or hate for that matter). Worshiping one’s self takes all your heart, all your soul, and all your might and doesn’t leave much for anything else, including love of country. This narcissism and self worship ultimately manifests itself in arrogance, disdain and loathing for anyone who doesn’t agree, and cynicism (much like that twerp that helped conceive and write Ombacare and then went on say that it was so complicated and twisted that the average stupid American would never figure it out and just swallow it hook, line, and sinker). Just so everyone knows, this is a paraphrase and not an actual quote. Don’t have the time to go track down and quote all the cynical, pathetic, disturbing things he actually said. 
Cynicism and apathy will destroy a civilization long before guns and bombs ever will. We can at least thank God the PL’s are not apathetic. 






pabritt



Marilyn, just to settle one argument, this video is proof that Obama admitted he is Muslim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=1








Well Done



LOL if you think that’s an “assertion”, you’re an idiot.






notlopsided



Well, I suggest you look up the word “assertion” in the dictionary before making a bigger fool of yourself.






tompro97




You have already done that and each of your comments makes you look even more foolish AND Stupid.






notlopsided



Let’s review, shall we? Keith said, “According to President Obama the best friend to the US is Turkey, bar none.”
To which I replied, “Could you provide a cite to support your assertion?”
To which you replied, “LOL if you think that’s an “assertion”, you’re an idiot.”
To which I replied, “Well, I suggest you look up the word “assertion” in the dictionary before making a bigger fool of yourself.”
I won’t include your last reply – it’s irrelevant. I’ll provide you with the def of “assert”, since you’re too stupid and lazy to do it yourself: to state with assurance, confidence, or force; state strongly or positively; affirm; aver:
Keith made his original statement with assurance, left no wiggle room, therefore his statement was an assertion, according to the dictionary. Of course, heaven only knows what an imbecile like you had in his “brain” re the definition of “assertion”.








spicefreak



Just google it, he said it.






notlopsided



ROFLMAO!! It is simply amazing how all morons “think” alike. Here’s a newsflash for ya. It’s not my job to support someone else’s point. He didn’t say it, so I won’t waste time googling it. You imagined it. It happens with weak “brains” – live with it.












pabritt



A lesson on Muslims: Watch this video and learn the evils of Muslim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkQoqVoBBCk&feature=player_detailpage#t=856






Blake



give it time, once the muslim population rises in Australia it will be the new UK. won’t take long. hopefully they can prevent it before its too late








Texas Patriot



Terrorism is to tyranny what democracy is to freedom. You can have one or the other, but not both.






Larry Larkin



We’ve banned nazism from just about every place in the world, I can’t see why islam, which is just as bad, should get a pass.






Texas Patriot



Compared with Islam, Nazism was like a group of spoiled and ignorant toddlers playing with nursery rhymes.






notlopsided



I don’t think you’re right, Tex. Nazis were Germans, and Germans are industrious, intelligent, inventive and brave. Muslims are generally none of those – most of them can’t read. If Muslims ever get as smart as Nazis, we’re doomed.






Texas Patriot



Never underestimate an enemy. They’re smart, they’re ruthless, and they’re absolutely willing to die for the cause. And they have their share of high IQ types like anyone else. Plus, with over a billion and a half sample size to choose from, they will be able to put more than enough highly educated and highly qualified jihadis to work in designing and organizing their war machine. Pretending they are weak and unorganized and ignorant and afraid may make us feel good, but it won’t make us any safer. Assuming the worst about our enemies and preparing to do whatever it takes to overcome the actual and potential threat is the only rational path of survival.






notlopsided



There are two simple steps that the West needs to take in order to overcome Islam. The first is giving fair warning that from this moment forward, all Muslims are seen as united. Acts of terrorism should be treated as acts of war by the Muslim nation, and appropriately severe response should be taken against any and all Muslim targets. Nothing is spared. If you want to call yourself a Muslim, you’ll pay the price of actions you yourself may not have participated in. Don’t like it? Renounce the “faith”. No third option. The second is that Western govts must become intimately familiar with Muslim scripture. An objective reader can only conclude that a Muslim is by definition seditious – it is his duty to be so – and as such should be given a choice: renounce Islam or be deported.








Melissak



With all due respect they were smart enough to infiltrate our White House.God help us all.






Dallasyaherd



Smart enough to take over the best lands on earth a million times over, of the time.






MarilynA



I thought Jefferson sent the Marines to Sicily to clean out the Barbary Pirates who were ruling the oceans. and make it possible to the US to open up trade with Europe. Those pirates weren’t preying on the shores of America and therefore were not taking American white women as slaves.






ebonystone



Jefferson sent the Navy and the Marines to North Africa (notably Tripoli), not Sicily, to put down the Moslem pirate states that made their living seizing American ships and selling their crews and passengers into slavery. There were probably not many women aboard these ships, so you’re likely right about their not taking American women as slaves. But they certainly enslaved lots of American men.
Most of the European states paid them tribute to exempt their ships from seizure.






Dallasyaherd



That contradicts some research, some examples, all the people of Baltimore, Ireland were taken captive by Ottoman slave traders in one night during that period, while they slept just one example.






ebonystone



I don’t see any contradiction. Moslem pirates were both preying on Mediterranean shipping, AND making slave raids elsewhere. I was merely concentrating on the Mediterranean issue.






Well Done



Your “thoughts” are in error.






Dallasyaherd



I was just … I can’t find my source for the 2 million figure I will update when I can find it. The work Captives by Linda Colley, uses the number 1.5 million Europeans were taken as slaves to remote parts of the UNITED, that is the lie of the history books since, Israel was created, in order to create a “palestine” they obsess on writing “nominally” Ottoman over and over as if the Ottoman wern’t making the laws, choosing the leaders, and obsessed with control, it is insane what the world will do to disprove the Jews. They were moved throughout the Ottoman Sultanate.






Go USA



“Smart enough to take over the best lands”
That was not due to being smart. They outnumbered the others, their killings and mass rapes scared even then most brave warriors, plus they took advantage of countries being run by weak leaders and busy fighting among themselves while some ignored the warnings.
History repeats itself today. Some defend islamists and their actions, some busy fighting social and racial battles that should even exist, the rest are asleep.






notlopsided



BO is not a Muslim, Melissa. If you voted for dubya, which, by virtue of your idiotic comment, I’d bet you did, you’re responsible for ISIS. “God” won’t help us all, since “he” doesn’t exist. What will help us is requiring an IQ test to gain the right to vote, thus denying morons like you the ability to determine the country’s future.






Jera



Define ‘moron’
Anyone who glibly assumes a comment about Muslims in the White House is automatically tagging the POTUS as the Muslim. There are PLENTY on your Messiah’s staff, Asshat. IQ test: FAIL






notlopsided



Jera, see, the thing about morons is, they are often too stupid to know how stupid they are. Case in point: you. You didn’t get that Melissa was referring to none other than BO because you’re not bright. And now, what will happen if I ask you to list all of those “plentiful” Muslims on BO’s staff? , of course.






bigjulie



No doubt in my mind that Melissa’s characterization of POTUS was accurate and truthful. Ye gods, man…he spent all of his developmental years as a PRACTICING Muslim! You are actually exposing your own inability (or maybe unwillingness?) to think clearly.






notlopsided



“No doubt in my mind that Melissa’s characterization of POTUS was accurate and truthful.” But let’s remember, it’s only your, ahem, “mind”. 
“he spent all of his developmental years as a PRACTICING Muslim!” Proof, please, or be deemed a liar.






Well Done



LOL look it up yourself, fool, you’re a liar. And a fairly stupid one.






notlopsided



Well apparently “thinks” it’s my job to support someone else’s assertions. What more can one expect from a moron?






Well Done



Coming as it does from a guy who posted “BO is not a moslem”, sarcasm is fairly useless. I note your use of that peculiar little meme; asking a question in a comment then pretending the question hasn’t been answered… before you even post it. Too juvenile. Too punk. Too arrogant Dem troll. F-O!






notlopsided



Let’s see. Sarcasm is fairly useless because I said BO is not a Muslim. Makes perfect sense.
Seems like “meme” is your favorite new word. Did you learn it recently? Of course, what exactly you’re babbling about re a question in a comment is anyone’s guess.






gerry



This is what I have always said,too stupid to realise they are stupid.Confirmed by Gruber.






http://www.chaverimisrael.org Norbert Haag



Really, voting for a politician makes you responsible for Muslims severing the heads of hundreds of people?
What kind of weird idiot are you?
I guess a liberal,no?






notlopsided



Norb, the connection between the elimination of Saddam and the emergence of ISIS is apparently much too complex for you to understand. You’d best leave such matters to others and go watch football.






http://www.chaverimisrael.org Norbert Haag



The emergence of your BS and the connection to leftist propaganda is too complex for your brain I guess,
And, do you think I should stop reading my history books to watch a game I can’t stand?
You see your leftist head is full of stereotypes that usually do not explain a grain of the truth.
Live well






notlopsided



Norb, don’t get your panties in a bunch. No need for leftists, stereotypes, history books, propaganda, or anything else that the very confused jumble of neurons between your ears comes up with. Let me spell it out for you so that even you might understand: You don’t perceive the connection between the ouster of Saddam and the rise of ISIS. That connection is actually quite direct and simple. Someone who cannot perceive something direct and simple is by definition stupid. Is that clear enough, or do you need further explanation?






bigjulie



verylopsided…you guys keep using the same old tired senseless excuses when you are on the losing side of an argument! You’re guilty of using Progressive Argument #132 when you are losing. Simply designate some arcane bit of knowledge as “direct and simple” and then state, “Well, if you don’t understand THAT, don’t expect me to be able to explain it for you!” Standard Pwog non-logic that is only used to escape an embarrassing situation, which appears to be where you find yourself.






notlopsided



LOL! To “big” julie, the connection between the ouster of Saddam and the rise of ISIS is “arcane”!! Let me be the first to inform you, the connection is obvious to anyone but a moron. 
“which appears to be where you find yourself.” Oh, geez, this is almost scary! Let me help you. The way things might appear to a moron is probably often quite different from the way they appear to a person with normal or above intelligence. 
but, I have to admit, the best was “arcane”. That’s a keeper!






http://www.chaverimisrael.org Norbert Haag



No I got it someone who can not perceive something direct and simple is stupid, like not believing that the spring is brought by the emergence of butterflies.
Just because something always comes together doesn’t mean there is a direct relationship, especially a relationship as you like it to be.
So thanks for more proof of your demented ability to think. Do you need further explanation?






notlopsided



“Just because something always comes together doesn’t mean there is a direct relationship, especially a relationship as you like it to be.” Norb, can we please stop this bs? Do yourself a favor – google [saddam isis] and read a little so that you can stop constantly proving yourself a moron.






notlopsided



Norb, I decided it was hypocritical of me to ask you to google the relationship between the ouster of Saddam and the rise of ISIS. Besides, the reality is that a person of obviously limited means such as yourself might have difficulties with spelling or whatever. So I did it myself. Here’s the first result. tiny url daht cahm slash kz3xujw . No thanks necessary.






bigjulie



If BO is not a Muslim, how do you explain his constantly taking positions in world affairs that favor them, often, in many cases, at the cost of America’s blood and treasure? He exchanges 5 important and experienced Taliban commanders for a damned deserter! I have been trying to figure out how that move benefits the country he was elected to protect and defend. Any Ideas? Melissa’s comment is not “idiotic”, but yours certainly is!






FRANK



BO = A HOMOSEXUAL MUSLIM.






notlopsided



“If BO is not a Muslim, how do you explain his constantly taking positions in world affairs that favor them, often, in many cases, at the cost of America’s blood and treasure?” Oh, man, I got myself a live one. That question is so incredibly stupid, it’s hard to type an answer without laughing. First of all, if you want to assert that BO is “constantly” favoring Muslims, you have to prove it. But more importantly, even if this were true, it would not prove, nor would it even suggest that he’s Muslim. “He exchanges 5 important and experienced Taliban commanders for a damned deserter!” With the information I have, I would not approve of this exchange any more than you do. However, earth to julie, that doesn’t make him a Muslim.






LibertyWriter



idiot






notlopsided



Oh Lib, thanks for that wonderful contribution to the thread. Did it take you long to work up the courage to type those five letters? C’mon, Lib, don’t be shy, I’d like to know. Oh, wait, maybe that was your way of attempting to start a conversation, or as close to one as you’re capable of having. OK, I get it, now it’s my turn. Um, let’s see, what would be appropriate. OK I’ve got it! DOODYHEAD! OK, your turn.






pabritt



Either you are dumber than a post or your trying to learn something by acting dumb, can’t tell which it is, but watch this video and it should clear your mind on one thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=1






notlopsided



Here’s your job, moron. Cite the precise line in the video where Obama admits he is a Muslim. You won’t because, of course, it doesn’t exist. By posting this, you admit you’re a moron.






pabritt



bigjulie check out this video: Right out of the horses mouth!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=1






notlopsided



LOL! If the caption said “Obama Admits He Is A Martian”, you’d buy it, too, because you have the thinking capacity of a frog.






pabritt



Well notlopsided you just showed how lopsided you are and how you know nothing of truth. I doubt you are even on the scale of a decent IQ and therefore a person that should never be allowed to vote for anything. You have proved in a short statement why we are in the mess we are in,,,it was people like you who do not only have no brains, but no common sense either. As for Obama being a Muslim,,,I guess you didn’t see the news when he said he was one.






notlopsided



“As for Obama being a Muslim,,,I guess you didn’t see the news when he said he was one.” Well golly gee, I must have missed that one. Would you be so kind as to provide a link so that I know you didn’t just imagine it?






pabritt



Hey lopsided, check this out;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=71






notlopsided



Hey, I noticed the caption, Obama Admits He Is A Muslim. Only one problem. Nowhere in the video does Obama admit he’s a Muslim. Besides that, the caption is perfectly accurate.
Imbecile.






notlopsided



“it was people like you who do not only have no brains, but no common sense either.” I have a technical question for you, pab. If I do not have no brains nor common sense, doesn’t that mean that I do have brains and common sense? (Psst – pab – PAB – over here – ever hear of a double negative?).






Well Done



If an IQ test to vote were implemented, the Dems would never win anything.






notlopsided



“Conservatives exhibit less cognitive ability than liberals do. Or that’s what it says in the social science literature, anyway. A 2010 study using data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, for example, found that the IQs of young adults who described themselves as “very liberal” averaged 106.42, whereas the mean of those who identified as “very conservative” was 94.82. Similarly, when a 2009 study correlated cognitive capacity with political beliefs among 1,254 community college students and 1,600 foreign students seeking entry to U.S. universities, it found that conservatism is “related to low performance on cognitive ability tests.” In 2012, a paper reported that people endorse more conservative views when drunk or under cognitive pressure; it concluded that “political conservatism may be a process consequence of low-effort thought.”
tiny url daht cahm slash os3vuvj






gerry



Nice try,the whole world knows that ISIS is Obama’s army.Obama lost control of it.It is financed by Turkey as well as Qatar.As for the I*Q test we know who needs one,this was confirmed to the world by Guber.The man was surprised by the stupidy of the Obama voters,not us.Not only they are stupid,but like Obama said they also have a congenital (maybe more) defects.Just keep us lauhging too stupid to resalise you are stupid.






notlopsided



“Nice try,the whole world knows that ISIS is Obama’s army.” Yes, and that’s why he’s sent American planes to bomb them. Makes perfect sense, at least in the moron brains that apparently comprise the majority, based on the last election results.






Guest



“Nice try,the whole world knows that ISIS is Obama’s army.Obama lost control of it.” Too funny. Were I not an atheist, I’d be forced to recite “there but for the grace of God…”






rangerider



They got in because Obama/Hilary/Kerry and the other minions have stated that they believe they can work with the muslim brotherhood  I truly believe that the commies believe they can defeat the muzzies at some later date or maybe share world rule with them 






pabritt



Got that right Melissak! And there are a lot of them, but it amazes me to know there were many already there during the Bush Admin. and Obama brought on more of them along with taking an Oath on their Koran, not our Bible. So what does that tell you,,,,not good, not good at all. Then Obama has Muslim prayer meetings at the White House and claims this is no longer a Christian Nation therefore cancelling our Christian Prayer Day.






notlopsided



“Obama has Muslim prayer meetings at the White House ” Lay off the hallucinogens, moron.








rangerider



Plus Hitler had a couple of muzzie divisions:-0 I think mostly used in the Balkans:-0 Hitler was so impressed with the muzzies he thought the German people ought to be more like them:-) If the muzzies ever get power like Hitler they would show Hitler to be a piker in comparison 






Go USA



He is comparing ideologies. If you look deeper, islam makes nazism look harmless compared to it. If you still don’t understand look what ISIS is doing in Syria and Iraq. They made the German SS officers look like a bunch of amateurs.






notlopsided



“If you look deeper, islam makes nazism look harmless compared to it.” Perhaps it seems to to you, but Muslims have a long way to go number-wise before they manage to kill as many as the Nazis did. I think you have no clue what you’re talking about. What ISIS is doing in Syria, e.g. mass executions by gunfire, was done 1000 times more by the Nazis. You need to read a bit before making silly pronouncements.












M2000



Banning Nazism didn’t ban being anyone from being German.






Gee



But it has prevented them from gain control again








notlopsided



The reason is clear. Until we relinquish our special treatment for anything calling itself a religion, Islam is safe.






Well Done



Ah, the “Islam is just another religion” meme. Who do you think you’re conversing with, gilligan? Seriously. You’ve spewed just about every half-witticism the left have come up with in the last 10 years or so. You’re a smug joke!






notlopsided



“Ah, the “Islam is just another religion” meme.” Let’s have some entertainment. Please get me logically from my statement to yours.






notlopsided



Well, it seems as if our resident bigmouth Well has been rendered speechless. I wonder why? All I asked was that he demonstrate the logical connection between what I said and what he said I said. Oh wait, could it be because a logical connection between those two things does not exist, and Well Done’s “thinking” was about on the level of Homer Simpson’s? DOH!!!










kiwi41



Iz slime and Nazism are the same.
http://en .wikipedia. org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
Fix gaps






pabritt



They shouldn’t! They are as bad if not worse than Nazism! They are taught from a very young age to hate, kill and destroy. Boys and girls do not go to the same schools in most areas because girls are no better than dogs, and they teach the boys that as well. They are an evil, depraved race of people and have no love in their heart.








http://ruleofreason.blogspot.com/ Edward Cline



Islam is a communicable mental disease only among the brain dead (or among those who wish to be brain dead, such as Western converts). When it speaks, it speaks “in tongues,” or just plain gibberish. One could even say that it induces a kind of autism. Thus the blatantly irrational utterances of any Grand Mufti. It can be likened to the non-Muslim murderers and rapists in our own prisons demanding the right to vote.






amongoose



OK, so what is the down side?
Peace and safe streets?






pabritt



As long as a Muslim Radical Islamist is in your country you will not be safe and there will be no peace. Their agenda is to rule the world and kill all Jews, Christians and gentiles. Never trust anything they say or do, because they portray they are peace loving people, but they are not and never will be. Never, never give into their ideology or you will end up without a head.








SoCalMike



The scary thing is the senior leadership of the US government, the State Department and the Democrat Party are all on board with this idea of “legitimate” resistance.
That’s why they funded and armed the Islamic State from Benghazi and why they continue to fund HAMAS and train a PLO army. The Left is so ideologically filthy they easily climb in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood and the Right is so cowed they won’t call them on it.
The beliefs underpinning the Islamic Council of Victoria are animating the decisions of American policy makers to the benefit of Islamic Jihad.






roccolore



Maybe banning Islam is not such a bad idea.






mollysdad



The way to start is by banning Muslims from having custody of children – after all they follow a pedophile as a role model.






kiwi41



Ban them having children….period.






BS77



If Australia and many other countries were serious, they would begin revoking citizenship, limiting immigration and deporting known problem people… This is called national security.










http://www.worthynews.com/ Joe DeCaro



Banning Islam is no worse than banning organized crime.








phillyfanatic



Enough PC baloney on Islamists. Islam is a signal for insanity no matter how moderate the Govt. , the university campuses or the PC media want us to believe. Banning parts of Islam: sharia, jihadist baloney, madrasses in a nation is part of international and national protection. The USA should do it immediately. And while we are at it; stop all Muslim Islamist immigration from terrorist states.






WALK



How the heck did they enter Australia in the first place?
Must one still have a criminal record to qualify?






Uzoozy



They converted to Islam of their own free will.
Many many to get there soon.








Noah Rosenblum



These jihadist muslims are mental cases who are unable to integrate into Western society. They should be deported to either Syria or Iraq where they can part take in the Jihadist Olympics.






Sense1



That is the general idea…






notlopsided



I have never seen “al fitnah” translated as “disbelief”, and I think you’ve missed the point of that verse. The most common translation for the phrase is “persecution is severer than slaughter”. This means, hey, don’t feel guilty about slaughtering those infidels. After all, they “persecuted” you, and Allah says that’s worse than your killing them. How convenient! You know the guy at the corner deli – I specifically requested little mayo and got medium mayo. Thus he was persecuting me, so I slaughtered him – God told me to.






bigjulie



“severer”?? Is that like “more severe”?






notlopsided



Good guess, julie. Next time, rather than demonstrate your ignorance, find a dictionary.










Ide-Clair



Muslims have been getting such a pass from the cowardly political correct, they don’t even bother to lie about their agenda anymore.






Dave Loader



So they’re now openly ADMITTING their religion is violent and murderous.
And they want these ISLAMIC TERRORIST ACTS sanctioned by western law?
Wow, these peoples stupidity never ceases to amaze….






GSR



The problem is Western nations allowing huge number of Mohammedans to immigrate. It’s the immigration, stupid.






bigjulie



Absolutely true!! And then feed and house them while they take their time figuring out how they can best chop off non-believer’s heads for maximum “conversion” power!








Kenneth V. Tellis



That is really an admission by the Muslim Community that they are part of the Terrorists in Australia. They really attempting to bypass the law in Australia, which banns any Terrorist activity or anyone who is aiding them! I want to thank the Muslim Community for finally admitting the Islam and Terrorism are one and the same thing.






pabritt



Kenneth check out this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkQoqVoBBCk&feature=player_detailpage#t=856








M2000



And the “moderate” Muslims promote al-Qaeda’s Islam’s War Against Everyone Not Like Them.






Dave Loader



http://www.politicalears.com/blog/is-anybody-surprised-norway-deports-muslims-crime-rate-drops-31/






quousque



I have read the column; one item remains untold. Where do Norwegians deport their undesirables?






bigjulie



Easy! Baffin Island. Plenty of land and no one of any consequence to have to fight. They’ll love it!










ramrodd



a NO BRAINER






Bash Brannigan



Hmmm, wonder if the other side of his sign is used for his day job??






kiwi41



I visualize that muz slime POS with a third eye………….it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling .








mikentosh



I think the Military leaders who should’ve already rolled into Washington DC and the White House + taken control via military ‘coup, have been hitting ‘snooze’ continuously these last few years….They need to wake-up very soon and take care of business.
There are Traitors in charge or Our country, who need to be dealt with Right Fuckin Now!






levlafayette



Well, its rather sad to say but 30 seconds of actual review of the quotes in context tells a somewhat different story.
For
example in the verse immediately preceding to 2:191 it specifies that it only
applies against those who have have already attacked Muslims. The next
one quoted 8:12 is an exclamation in the midst of a *battle*, for
goodness sakes. The third, 9:5, was directed to specific pagan tribes
already at war with the Muslims and who had breached their peace
agreements.
Given this, why has FPM engaged in such selective quoting? Doesn’t it seem rather odd that the author has come to the same conclusion as obviously ignorant Islamic fundamentalists?






Dallasyaherd



Yes Islam took over MILLIONS of square miles of the best oldest real estate on earth, by not killing anyone, The whole Middle East was 1% Arab 3000 years ago (remember the Hittites, Jews, Phoenecians, Philistines, Carthaginians, Sumerians, Assyrians, Aramenians, original Babylonians, Zoroastrians, Labanites, all non-Semitic except Jews, let alone Arab) all are now Arab, Im sure they all gave up there ancient beliefs without a fight. Yes I did type millions of miles, Sahara female circumcision. 
You are dumb and evil, and are defending dumb and evil.






Dallasyaherd



Think about the potency of this evil, Christians in Lebanon have not one iota of Arab DNA they are descendents of prior Middle Eastern Peoples and the Byzantines, every main stream history book and media outlet without exception calls the Arab Christians, so to Assyrian Christians, they were in the Middle East before the Arabs took over Nineveh, and Syria and Ottoman Syria and did their brutal colonization murder and lies.
When they check if Jewish DNA “is real” they compare it to the Egyptian Arab Jihadists who got there when Ali Pasha Mohamaed took over Ottoman Syria from Egypt in 1850. When they find Jews are more closely related to the peorpl the Arabs murdered out, ie, the Armenians and Kurds and Southern Italians the original inhabitants of the Middle East, they ignore it.






notlopsided



Sheesh, finally someone in this thread who knows what they’re talking about. Thank you.










bigjulie



Hmmm! You fail to detail what constitutes an “attack” on Muslims. Are you saying that Muslims utter total lies when they fight? And where does one find qualifying information regarding the “peace agreements” made by “Pagan Tribes”? Why are the qualifiers you so readily admonish Daniel with not in the original texts? Is it just a “Muslim thing” we are not privileged to understand?






notlopsided



“For example in the verse immediately preceding to 2:191 it specifies that it only applies against those who have have already attacked Muslims.” 
You’re reading it the way you want to. You’re a slimy Muslim apologist. Here’s 2.191 in context. 
[2.190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[2.192] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
190 says fight those who fight you, not ONLY those who fight you. Essentially it says don’t shrink from battle.
191 says to kill them wherever you find them. Well, what is “them”? No explanation. Nothing in preceding verses specifies. But what follows is key. “Persecution is severer than slaughter.” How convenient! If you’ve been “persecuted” by someone, it’s fine to slaughter them, since what they did to you is severer. So, if my neighbor asks me to tone down the noise of my party, he’s persecuting me, God says to slaughter him. See, the thing is, unlike persecution, slaughter is not subject to interpretation. Either your dead or you’re not dead.
192 says if they desist, ALLAH is forgiving. So YOU, the reader, should kill them as per 191, but the forgiveness we can leave to Allah.
193 what a friggin joke. Fight them until there is no persecution – if I have no complaining neighbors left, I don’t have to kill anymore.
Only a brainwashed fool could possibly think that some all-good, Supreme being could write such nonsense, especially concerning matters of life and death. The proof that the verses have malevolent effect is visible each and every day with the pointless murderers who maintain that they are simply following the Koran. An apologist such as yourself is irrelevant, at least until you prevent a murder attempted by your brethren.








Jay Dillon



All religions as constructed, interpreted, and embodied by human beings, must be viewed and treated with an overarching irreverence.






Jay Dillon



Government and international law, as well as international military cooperative forces, are not too stupid to deal with fiendish terrorists.






Dallasyaherd



Yes they are.








Bigolfascist



Australia is finally growing a set….or maybe borrowing ours that have been in storage for so long.






nelly2004



Wat will it take to get brave leaders to call out the lies and cowardice of political correctness? We need leaders who will actually face the fact that Islam cannot be assimilated to free societies and their intent is to dominate. We need leaders who are not afraid to call out the bullies and tell the truth and when ridiculed by the cowards stand firm. The civilized world must fight the totalitarianism of Islam and push Muslims it their backward Islamic countries and isolate them. If they don’t want to live and let live they have to be removed, period!






Bert van Delft



Is this the same country that refused the Dutch MP Geert Wilders to speech openly on universities? What happend?






David Harrison



Religion of peace?






David Harrison



PC alert: Liberal Mods at work here.






lancestaub



Islam is NOT compatible with the laws of any country that allows freedom of religion because Islam denies that right. Make it illegal for the practice of Islam, pure and simple!






David Harrison



I’m outta here. The LibZombie Mods keep putting my post on hold.






Gee



And the problem is? 
Islam is a fascist, xenophobic, genocidal, racist cult. They are very similar to Nazis






USARetired



Great move, should be adopted World wide ! No Nation needs any of these heathens!






C K Johnson



Now if they would put a bounty on terrorist . That would make it even better!!!!!!!!!






http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com/ BobSmith101



Islamic reality has been hidden for 1,400 years because it is difficult to see the whole picture. 
The internet has changed all that. The world is waking up.
If the Australians ban the Koran, hopefully other countries will follow suit.






herb benty



Islam=terrorism.






Dwight Hannah



they have no legitimate right to kill others. To think so stamps there citizen card as an intruder. Then send them home to stay so they can fulfill the jihad






El Cid



duh.






YouHateMe



Just can’t get it right, can they? Ban Islamic murderers and terrorism will cease immediately.






YouHateMe



I hope someone is strong enough to put Huma Albiden in the spotlight for her support of Sharia Law and Islamic dominance. Hilary is a sympathizer with evil and is an enemy of the USA.






2Contend…



Do you truly want to know? You Tube – An Historical Critique of Islam’s beginnings – Jay Smith.
Also: You Tube – The Suppressed and Hidden History of Islam.
The truth will set you free.






James H. Hughes



Plus the inscription on that ring he wears …






ebonystone



“In its submission, the Islamic Council of Victoria said the new law would incriminate Muslims who support ‘legitimate forms of armed struggle’, including resistance to the Assad regime in Syria and the Palestinian conflict with Israel.”
But to Moslems, any armed struggle against the “enemies of Islam” — which means everyone who hasn’t converted to Islam, or been enslaved by Moslems, or agreed to pay the jizya (and sometimes even then) — is legitimate. As is armed struggle against those who are Moslem, but the wrong kind of Moslem. So just about any Moslem, anywhere, can commit terrorist acts against anyone and anything and justify them as legitimate.






Chris Gait



Mecca is the key. Take Mecca hostage. Make it clear that ANY acts of terror will directly and immediately impact Mecca. Back it up with action. Within a very brief time the Moslems will police themselves properly.






eddyjames



The only way for the World to be made safe from radical islam is to wipe out islam.






Well Done



Islam caused the “civil war” in Lebanon. These “civil wars”, whether in Syria, Libya, or wherever, are in fact the legitimate local gov’t attempting to prevent their country from being taken over by Islamists. That’s why the Russians support Assad in Syria. He’s fighting Islamists, in many cases the same people that Russian troops have faced. See how moslems in Gaza and West Bank try to blame Israel for everything that happens? Same tactic used by Islamists in Syria. That’s why we have ISIS now. Obama was supporting them against Russia, which is what Benghazi was about. Obama would rather Americans die than the truth of his gun-running from Libya to Syria be proven. Obama was, and is, supporting Islamists.






Promethean



Islam’s War to Save the World …
http://howardbloom.net/the-lucifer-principle/islams-war-to-save-the-world/






His Excellency



Pearl Harbor was a massacre. So was the persecution of the indigenous Miskito people of Nicaragua under the Sandinistas. Yet, you ignore those incidents because you are a Communist and an Islamist sympathizer.






Atikva



Don’t bother, this was just a typical attempt by the author to divert the attention from the jihadis’ current atrocities by trying to create a parallel in historical times. They do it all the time: “When you can no longer deny the crime, blame the victim” (manual of the perfect islamo-socialist contender). 
Even if this slapdash list of our supposed “crimes” had any
validity, it couldn’t possibly excuse and justify in any way, shape or form the abominations committed daily by jihadis for the past five decades or so.








nullnullnull



Time has come to ban ISLAM as a SICK and DEGENERATED IDEOLOGY identicall to full blown NAZISM with EXTERMINATION and RAPE and WAR






Atikva



Comments like this are a joy to
smash to smithereens! Each time their authors invite themselves on one of our
conservative sites, more people get an education about their arrogance, their
ignorance and their lies!
As to lies, dear Sir/Madam, your
pseudo belies the contents of your comment. It’s like a resident of Jeddah
posting as “Westerner”.
As to arrogance, you didn’t even
bother to spell correctly the name of the person you are citing in your post.
In the West, courtesy demands that you respect to the letter the spelling of
the family names of your interlocutors – especially when you insult them
(which, by the way, it is extremely rude to do). And inevitably, you accuse the
author of the article of being too stupid to understand your coran. 
What you, in turn, don’t realize
is that we don’t care a fig for the coran and the hundred of various and
contradictory interpretations of its contents that its adepts have been
fabricating for centuries, according to the necessity of the moment, to try and
prove the opposite of the truth. With us Westerners, takya absorption has its
limits and you have exceeded them a long time ago. We know that “If it quacks
like a duck, looks like a duck and walks like a duck: yes, it’s a duck!”
Period. 
Similarly, if mass killers,
beheaders, rapists, torturers, slave masters and other despicable individuals
glorify their evil deeds with cries of allahu akbar until they are blue in the
face, for us it’s enough to prove that islam is at the root of their actions.
The rest is irrelevant. 
You are wasting your time trying
your eloquence on us, the perpetrators’ victims. It would be put to better use
if you would direct it toward the jihadis to convince them that they are
mistaken, that they are not real muslims. I suggest that instead of posting
vapid comments on our sites you take the next available flight to the IS
territory, armed with your best arguments to convince them of their error.
Actually, this would be the only worthwhile task to be undertaken by the “real”
muslims these days, and it’s an urgent one.
I wish you good luck.






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