WEBVTT

1
00:00:03.540 --> 00:00:06.509 A:middle L:90%
Good morning. And we're here with Rich Mayer this

2
00:00:06.509 --> 00:00:09.060 A:middle L:90%
morning and thank you so much for joining us and

3
00:00:09.070 --> 00:00:10.830 A:middle L:90%
Rich, would you start by telling us a little

4
00:00:10.830 --> 00:00:14.939 A:middle L:90%
bit about yourself? Well, sure. Well,

5
00:00:14.939 --> 00:00:19.289 A:middle L:90%
I'm a professor of psychology here at University of California

6
00:00:19.289 --> 00:00:23.059 A:middle L:90%
Santa Barbara, um on the shores of the Ppacific

7
00:00:23.059 --> 00:00:26.699 A:middle L:90%
Ocean. And my research really involves what I would

8
00:00:26.699 --> 00:00:31.379 A:middle L:90%
call applying the science of learning to education. So

9
00:00:31.390 --> 00:00:34.159 A:middle L:90%
this is kind of an interdisciplinary field that's at the

10
00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:40.640 A:middle L:90%
intersection of cognitive psychology and education and technology. And

11
00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:43.159 A:middle L:90%
in particular, at least recently, I've gotten interested

12
00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:45.850 A:middle L:90%
in what I call multimedia learning, which is how

13
00:00:45.850 --> 00:00:48.380 A:middle L:90%
people learn from words and pictures and how we can

14
00:00:48.390 --> 00:00:52.619 A:middle L:90%
help them learn more effectively. Thank you. Sure

15
00:00:52.630 --> 00:00:54.390 A:middle L:90%
. How long have you been at U c santa

16
00:00:54.390 --> 00:00:57.539 A:middle L:90%
Barbara? Um well, I um I know this

17
00:00:57.539 --> 00:01:00.700 A:middle L:90%
will be shocking. I've been here since 1975.

18
00:01:00.700 --> 00:01:03.950 A:middle L:90%
You're probably thinking? He looks so young. But

19
00:01:03.959 --> 00:01:08.200 A:middle L:90%
this was essentially my first job I am after I

20
00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:12.420 A:middle L:90%
graduated from University of michigan. um I taught at

21
00:01:12.420 --> 00:01:15.069 A:middle L:90%
indiana University for two years and then I came out

22
00:01:15.069 --> 00:01:18.590 A:middle L:90%
here. Been here ever since. I've been here

23
00:01:18.590 --> 00:01:22.019 A:middle L:90%
ever since. Yes. How did you get interested

24
00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:26.760 A:middle L:90%
in this field? Um yeah, that's a really

25
00:01:26.140 --> 00:01:29.760 A:middle L:90%
interesting question. I don't really think about that sometimes

26
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:32.569 A:middle L:90%
, but I think my my focus has always been

27
00:01:32.569 --> 00:01:36.489 A:middle L:90%
on the question of how can we help people learn

28
00:01:36.500 --> 00:01:38.280 A:middle L:90%
in ways so they can take what they've learned and

29
00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:41.769 A:middle L:90%
apply it to new situations. So that's kind of

30
00:01:41.769 --> 00:01:44.879 A:middle L:90%
the classic issue of transfer that's, you know,

31
00:01:44.890 --> 00:01:49.280 A:middle L:90%
been with both psychology and education from the very start

32
00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.269 A:middle L:90%
of both of those fields. So it's a it's

33
00:01:52.269 --> 00:01:55.019 A:middle L:90%
a issue that has a long history, but it's

34
00:01:55.019 --> 00:01:57.939 A:middle L:90%
also one that I think is really important um both

35
00:01:57.939 --> 00:02:00.969 A:middle L:90%
theoretically and practically. So I like a question that

36
00:02:00.969 --> 00:02:05.159 A:middle L:90%
has both theoretical um, goals and practical goals.

37
00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:09.509 A:middle L:90%
So really what I've been trying to understand is I

38
00:02:09.509 --> 00:02:13.710 A:middle L:90%
guess how do you teach for transfer? How do

39
00:02:13.710 --> 00:02:16.379 A:middle L:90%
you promote meaningful learning? So that's kind of a

40
00:02:16.379 --> 00:02:21.479 A:middle L:90%
company interested or what got me started? Well speaking

41
00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:23.629 A:middle L:90%
of getting started, could you describe your career path

42
00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:27.599 A:middle L:90%
, talk a little bit about where you went to

43
00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:30.629 A:middle L:90%
grad school and then take us through descriptions of your

44
00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:34.210 A:middle L:90%
different jobs along the way. Sure. Sure.

45
00:02:34.219 --> 00:02:38.280 A:middle L:90%
So even a little bit before that I guess You

46
00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:40.969 A:middle L:90%
know I guess I'm a product of public education from

47
00:02:40.969 --> 00:02:45.889 A:middle L:90%
kindergarten through graduate school. I my K. 12

48
00:02:45.889 --> 00:02:51.620 A:middle L:90%
education was in Cincinnati public schools where I kind of

49
00:02:51.750 --> 00:02:54.560 A:middle L:90%
enjoyed the nerdy subjects of math and science. And

50
00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:58.199 A:middle L:90%
then I got a B. A. I guess

51
00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:01.099 A:middle L:90%
a B. S. In psychology at Miami University

52
00:03:01.099 --> 00:03:06.310 A:middle L:90%
in Oxford Ohio which is just really near Cincinnati.

53
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:09.120 A:middle L:90%
And then for graduate school I just went up the

54
00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:13.669 A:middle L:90%
road to ANn Arbor. Um And I was fortunate

55
00:03:13.669 --> 00:03:16.629 A:middle L:90%
enough to be admitted to a graduate program in cognitive

56
00:03:16.629 --> 00:03:21.870 A:middle L:90%
psychology and to work with Jim Green Oh at the

57
00:03:21.870 --> 00:03:25.280 A:middle L:90%
University of Michigan. Um And that's really where I

58
00:03:25.569 --> 00:03:31.379 A:middle L:90%
developed what my interests in this field that I'm involved

59
00:03:31.379 --> 00:03:35.900 A:middle L:90%
in now. Okay good. And then of course

60
00:03:35.900 --> 00:03:38.400 A:middle L:90%
you went out you went on to Indiana from right

61
00:03:38.409 --> 00:03:42.759 A:middle L:90%
graduating and then I graduated in 1973. And my

62
00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:46.930 A:middle L:90%
first job was yes a visiting assistant professor job at

63
00:03:46.930 --> 00:03:52.580 A:middle L:90%
Indiana University in bloomington. Um Where coincidentally our first

64
00:03:52.580 --> 00:03:55.699 A:middle L:90%
son was born so we've never let him forget he's

65
00:03:55.699 --> 00:04:01.520 A:middle L:90%
a Hoosier and then I had the good fortune to

66
00:04:01.530 --> 00:04:03.139 A:middle L:90%
land a job here at U. C. S

67
00:04:03.139 --> 00:04:05.560 A:middle L:90%
. B. In 1975. And I've I've been

68
00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:09.509 A:middle L:90%
here ever since. How would you describe your research

69
00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:13.159 A:middle L:90%
interests and aspirations when you first started your career?

70
00:04:13.939 --> 00:04:17.639 A:middle L:90%
Um I would say um you know, my interests

71
00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:20.250 A:middle L:90%
and aspirations probably haven't really changed that much. I've

72
00:04:20.250 --> 00:04:26.189 A:middle L:90%
always been interested in uh the issue of transfer and

73
00:04:26.189 --> 00:04:28.430 A:middle L:90%
how do you how how can you teach people so

74
00:04:28.430 --> 00:04:30.230 A:middle L:90%
that they can use what they've learned a new situation

75
00:04:30.230 --> 00:04:32.259 A:middle L:90%
? So that's kind of been the driving question,

76
00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:36.850 A:middle L:90%
kind of the specific venues I've studied that in have

77
00:04:36.850 --> 00:04:42.120 A:middle L:90%
changed maybe a little bit from more paper based environments

78
00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:46.329 A:middle L:90%
to more computer based environments, but the same underlying

79
00:04:46.329 --> 00:04:47.980 A:middle L:90%
issue has been pretty consistent. What were some of

80
00:04:47.980 --> 00:04:51.649 A:middle L:90%
the major ideas or approaches that stimulated your professional growth

81
00:04:53.740 --> 00:04:57.949 A:middle L:90%
? Yeah, that's a really good question. Um

82
00:04:58.939 --> 00:05:00.959 A:middle L:90%
So, you know, just in terms of concepts

83
00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.230 A:middle L:90%
, I think kind of the issues that caught my

84
00:05:03.230 --> 00:05:06.509 A:middle L:90%
attention as a grad student and still I are still

85
00:05:06.509 --> 00:05:10.480 A:middle L:90%
probably motivating my work are the distinction between meaningful and

86
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:15.600 A:middle L:90%
rote learning. Like what um what happens when somebody

87
00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:20.930 A:middle L:90%
engages in meaningful learning? What's um uh what are

88
00:05:20.930 --> 00:05:24.560 A:middle L:90%
the cognitive processes and what are the what kind of

89
00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:27.160 A:middle L:90%
knowledge is produced when you engage in meaningful learning rather

90
00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:29.790 A:middle L:90%
than rote learning? And that's also related to the

91
00:05:29.790 --> 00:05:33.490 A:middle L:90%
classic, really gestalt idea of insight. Why are

92
00:05:33.490 --> 00:05:35.810 A:middle L:90%
some people able to come up with creative solutions to

93
00:05:35.810 --> 00:05:39.980 A:middle L:90%
problems and how can we prepare them to better be

94
00:05:39.980 --> 00:05:42.420 A:middle L:90%
able to do that? So those are kind of

95
00:05:42.430 --> 00:05:44.269 A:middle L:90%
, I guess some of the concepts I've been trying

96
00:05:44.269 --> 00:05:47.459 A:middle L:90%
to deal with. And then let's see in terms

97
00:05:47.459 --> 00:05:49.560 A:middle L:90%
of theoretical frameworks, I guess I've been working in

98
00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:59.350 A:middle L:90%
a information processing theoretical framework. So looking at idea

99
00:05:59.350 --> 00:06:01.620 A:middle L:90%
that learning occurs in a human information processing system that

100
00:06:01.620 --> 00:06:05.339 A:middle L:90%
has a very limited working memory and that that really

101
00:06:05.339 --> 00:06:11.850 A:middle L:90%
dictates a lot about how to design effective instruction I

102
00:06:11.850 --> 00:06:15.629 A:middle L:90%
think. And I guess what else from a kind

103
00:06:15.629 --> 00:06:18.009 A:middle L:90%
of method, a logical point of view, I've

104
00:06:18.009 --> 00:06:23.990 A:middle L:90%
kind of taken a uh an experimental approach and focused

105
00:06:23.990 --> 00:06:28.689 A:middle L:90%
on trying to run rigorous experiments to answer the questions

106
00:06:28.689 --> 00:06:30.259 A:middle L:90%
I have. Could I wear off since we're on

107
00:06:30.259 --> 00:06:36.110 A:middle L:90%
the topic of your research interests regarding uh principles that

108
00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:40.209 A:middle L:90%
guide meaningful learning. Can you talk a little bit

109
00:06:40.220 --> 00:06:42.339 A:middle L:90%
, would you feel about talking a little bit about

110
00:06:42.350 --> 00:06:45.810 A:middle L:90%
principles? Sure, support me. Yeah. You

111
00:06:45.810 --> 00:06:47.250 A:middle L:90%
know, I think what I've been been trying to

112
00:06:47.250 --> 00:06:51.730 A:middle L:90%
do over the years is too contribute to the science

113
00:06:51.730 --> 00:06:57.199 A:middle L:90%
of instruction by developing research based principles for how to

114
00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.839 A:middle L:90%
design effective instruction. And I've been trying to contribute

115
00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.589 A:middle L:90%
to the science of learning really, by trying to

116
00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:08.600 A:middle L:90%
come up with the research based theory of how people

117
00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:13.589 A:middle L:90%
learn that that's relevant for education for more authentic learning

118
00:07:13.589 --> 00:07:15.269 A:middle L:90%
situations. Couple of decades, we've come up with

119
00:07:15.269 --> 00:07:20.060 A:middle L:90%
about a dozen research based principles for how to design

120
00:07:20.439 --> 00:07:25.740 A:middle L:90%
um what I call multimedia learning. So this is

121
00:07:25.750 --> 00:07:30.300 A:middle L:90%
learning that involves words and graphics, which is most

122
00:07:30.310 --> 00:07:34.449 A:middle L:90%
instruction of power point presentation at textbook uh um you

123
00:07:34.449 --> 00:07:40.819 A:middle L:90%
know, uh computer based training, they all are

124
00:07:40.819 --> 00:07:46.529 A:middle L:90%
generally multimedia learning environments. Um what's another? So

125
00:07:46.540 --> 00:07:49.269 A:middle L:90%
that's a technique that's kind of aimed at what I

126
00:07:49.269 --> 00:07:55.319 A:middle L:90%
call reducing extraneous processing because it's reducing your standing back

127
00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.649 A:middle L:90%
and forth. A technique that's kind of focused on

128
00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:03.810 A:middle L:90%
what I call managing essential processing. Essential processing involves

129
00:08:03.819 --> 00:08:07.990 A:middle L:90%
uh learning what the topic is complex and it might

130
00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:11.759 A:middle L:90%
it might be overwhelming, but we can't really reduce

131
00:08:11.769 --> 00:08:15.220 A:middle L:90%
the amount of information because that's what we want you

132
00:08:15.220 --> 00:08:16.410 A:middle L:90%
to learn. So one technique is what I call

133
00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:20.410 A:middle L:90%
segmenting, which is to break a complicated lesson into

134
00:08:20.410 --> 00:08:24.589 A:middle L:90%
manageable parts and make sure the learner understands each part

135
00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:26.420 A:middle L:90%
before you move on to the next one. So

136
00:08:26.709 --> 00:08:31.519 A:middle L:90%
if you have a continuous narrated animation on how lightning

137
00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.559 A:middle L:90%
storms work, One thing we've done is to break

138
00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:37.940 A:middle L:90%
it into short segments of about 10 seconds each,

139
00:08:37.940 --> 00:08:41.080 A:middle L:90%
and after each one, you click on a continue

140
00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.389 A:middle L:90%
button to go onto the next one. That allows

141
00:08:43.389 --> 00:08:48.750 A:middle L:90%
the learner too, you know, digest one idea

142
00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:50.200 A:middle L:90%
before moving on to the next one, So we

143
00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.440 A:middle L:90%
call that segmenting, That makes sense. Yeah.

144
00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:58.399 A:middle L:90%
And the third kind of category of techniques is what

145
00:08:58.409 --> 00:09:03.620 A:middle L:90%
we call fostering generative processing. So generative processing is

146
00:09:03.620 --> 00:09:07.019 A:middle L:90%
the deeper kind of processing that involves relating what you're

147
00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:11.940 A:middle L:90%
learning to prior knowledge and mentally reorganizing it. And

148
00:09:11.990 --> 00:09:15.799 A:middle L:90%
one technique that we've looked at for doing accomplishing.

149
00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.320 A:middle L:90%
That is what we call the personalization principle. Where

150
00:09:18.330 --> 00:09:24.169 A:middle L:90%
instead of using formal language, we use uh conversational

151
00:09:24.179 --> 00:09:28.759 A:middle L:90%
language like 1st and 2nd person you're saying I and

152
00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.789 A:middle L:90%
you instead of third person or if it's an online

153
00:09:31.789 --> 00:09:35.629 A:middle L:90%
tutor, having the tutor be polite rather than just

154
00:09:35.629 --> 00:09:39.710 A:middle L:90%
giving direct feedback, Being a little polite with the

155
00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:41.529 A:middle L:90%
feedback. Who are some of the people who had

156
00:09:41.539 --> 00:09:45.879 A:middle L:90%
the most impact on your professional growth. Yeah,

157
00:09:45.889 --> 00:09:48.289 A:middle L:90%
that's a that's a good question to a lot of

158
00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:50.120 A:middle L:90%
people. I mean, I just am indebted to

159
00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:52.970 A:middle L:90%
so many people, but you know, starting with

160
00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:54.279 A:middle L:90%
my parents, I guess, who really instilled a

161
00:09:54.279 --> 00:10:00.799 A:middle L:90%
love of learning and and also uh respect for hard

162
00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:05.070 A:middle L:90%
work. Um, and I guess my teachers along

163
00:10:05.070 --> 00:10:07.980 A:middle L:90%
the way who gave me the self confidence that I

164
00:10:07.990 --> 00:10:13.129 A:middle L:90%
might be able to, I actually learned something.

165
00:10:13.139 --> 00:10:16.990 A:middle L:90%
Um um, and I guess in graduate school I

166
00:10:16.990 --> 00:10:18.440 A:middle L:90%
owe a debt to my mentor Jim Green. Oh

167
00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:22.909 A:middle L:90%
, at University of Michigan and certainly over the years

168
00:10:24.019 --> 00:10:26.429 A:middle L:90%
, my students and colleagues, I've just been really

169
00:10:26.429 --> 00:10:28.509 A:middle L:90%
lucky to be able to work with some really brilliant

170
00:10:28.509 --> 00:10:31.590 A:middle L:90%
and talented people who have really stimulated a lot of

171
00:10:31.590 --> 00:10:35.669 A:middle L:90%
my own thinking. What do you think was the

172
00:10:35.669 --> 00:10:37.730 A:middle L:90%
greatest accomplishment of your career so far and why,

173
00:10:37.750 --> 00:10:41.580 A:middle L:90%
you know what I've been trying to do? I

174
00:10:41.590 --> 00:10:45.610 A:middle L:90%
don't know how successful I've been is to, I

175
00:10:45.610 --> 00:10:48.110 A:middle L:90%
think, as I mentioned before, contribute to the

176
00:10:48.110 --> 00:10:52.450 A:middle L:90%
science of learning by developing a theory of learning that

177
00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.700 A:middle L:90%
kind of is based on more Authentic learning situations.

178
00:10:56.700 --> 00:10:58.659 A:middle L:90%
I mean, the science of learning has a long

179
00:10:58.659 --> 00:11:03.950 A:middle L:90%
history that goes back more than 100 years. But

180
00:11:03.950 --> 00:11:05.759 A:middle L:90%
a lot of it was based on kind of artificial

181
00:11:07.139 --> 00:11:09.659 A:middle L:90%
learning situations. And I think by trying to study

182
00:11:09.659 --> 00:11:13.830 A:middle L:90%
more authentic situations, we can develop more powerful theories

183
00:11:13.830 --> 00:11:16.019 A:middle L:90%
of how people learn. So that's, that's what

184
00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:18.929 A:middle L:90%
I've been trying to do. And uh you know

185
00:11:18.929 --> 00:11:20.750 A:middle L:90%
the theory that I've been working on, I call

186
00:11:20.750 --> 00:11:24.490 A:middle L:90%
the cognitive theory of multimedia learning, which is really

187
00:11:24.500 --> 00:11:26.460 A:middle L:90%
just borrows ideas from lots of other people. I

188
00:11:26.460 --> 00:11:30.389 A:middle L:90%
don't really think it's it's not original. But what

189
00:11:30.389 --> 00:11:33.190 A:middle L:90%
I'm trying to do is come up with an explanation

190
00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:35.120 A:middle L:90%
of you know, how learning works and kind of

191
00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:39.220 A:middle L:90%
the three main cognitive processes in meaningful learning according to

192
00:11:39.220 --> 00:11:43.750 A:middle L:90%
that theory, are selecting the relevant information. So

193
00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:46.730 A:middle L:90%
when you're in a learning situation, one thing you

194
00:11:46.730 --> 00:11:48.529 A:middle L:90%
have to do as a learner is just pay attention

195
00:11:48.529 --> 00:11:50.149 A:middle L:90%
to what's important. So I call that selecting relevant

196
00:11:50.149 --> 00:11:54.129 A:middle L:90%
information. You have to mentally organize that into a

197
00:11:54.129 --> 00:11:58.330 A:middle L:90%
coherent representation. I call that organizing. So we

198
00:11:58.330 --> 00:12:03.730 A:middle L:90%
have to mentally organize the incoming information into a cognitive

199
00:12:03.730 --> 00:12:09.110 A:middle L:90%
structure. And then lastly you the third processes integrating

200
00:12:09.110 --> 00:12:13.440 A:middle L:90%
, which involves I'm connecting the incoming information with relevant

201
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.990 A:middle L:90%
prior knowledge that you activate from long term memory and

202
00:12:16.990 --> 00:12:20.590 A:middle L:90%
also connecting it with other incoming information. So those

203
00:12:20.590 --> 00:12:24.690 A:middle L:90%
three processes selecting, organizing and integrating are kind of

204
00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:26.360 A:middle L:90%
at the heart of I think this theory of meaningful

205
00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:30.639 A:middle L:90%
learning. So that's one thing I've been trying to

206
00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.789 A:middle L:90%
do. And then in terms of a science of

207
00:12:33.789 --> 00:12:37.330 A:middle L:90%
instruction, I've been trying to come up with research

208
00:12:37.330 --> 00:12:43.100 A:middle L:90%
based principles of how you should design instruction that have

209
00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:45.529 A:middle L:90%
an empirical base to them and also a theoretical base

210
00:12:45.529 --> 00:12:48.980 A:middle L:90%
to them. So we've already discussed some of that

211
00:12:48.990 --> 00:12:50.480 A:middle L:90%
. How would you like to be remembered within our

212
00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:54.139 A:middle L:90%
profession? I'll leave that to other people do.

213
00:12:54.149 --> 00:13:01.710 A:middle L:90%
But you know, one thing I've kind of tried

214
00:13:01.710 --> 00:13:07.490 A:middle L:90%
to emphasize is that in education it's very easy to

215
00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:11.799 A:middle L:90%
slip into a focus on ideology and opinions and fads

216
00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:16.440 A:middle L:90%
and a lot of educational practice is is based on

217
00:13:16.450 --> 00:13:20.360 A:middle L:90%
those things. So I've tried to at least show

218
00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:22.039 A:middle L:90%
that you can take a scientific approach to a lot

219
00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:26.950 A:middle L:90%
of educational issues and that it's possible to answer a

220
00:13:26.950 --> 00:13:30.450 A:middle L:90%
lot of educational questions by, you know, rigorous

221
00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:35.350 A:middle L:90%
scientific evidence rather than ideology or opinions or feds.

222
00:13:37.129 --> 00:13:41.289 A:middle L:90%
And that's a significant contribution. It's a constant struggle

223
00:13:41.370 --> 00:13:43.919 A:middle L:90%
sometimes in the field of education too, to show

224
00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:48.850 A:middle L:90%
the benefit of a scientific approach we need that in

225
00:13:48.850 --> 00:13:52.830 A:middle L:90%
your example. Thank you. No, I didn't

226
00:13:52.830 --> 00:13:56.299 A:middle L:90%
ask you this earlier, but in my email,

227
00:13:56.299 --> 00:14:00.149 A:middle L:90%
but would you mind talking about your plans for the

228
00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.000 A:middle L:90%
future? Oh, sure. I've um, you

229
00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:07.820 A:middle L:90%
know, I have never really planned out a research

230
00:14:07.820 --> 00:14:09.250 A:middle L:90%
path. I just kind of go with what seems

231
00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:13.899 A:middle L:90%
interesting at the time because I think intellectual curiosity is

232
00:14:13.899 --> 00:14:16.000 A:middle L:90%
really what should drive your research. So I try

233
00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.559 A:middle L:90%
to study things that I just um very interested in

234
00:14:20.940 --> 00:14:24.590 A:middle L:90%
. So I've, you know, I've kind of

235
00:14:24.590 --> 00:14:26.440 A:middle L:90%
developed, I kind of have moved from, like

236
00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:30.480 A:middle L:90%
I said, studying paper based, um learning situations

237
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:31.600 A:middle L:90%
to more computer based. So that's a lot of

238
00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:35.759 A:middle L:90%
the multimedia learning research, but that's kind of gotten

239
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:37.679 A:middle L:90%
interested now in educational games. So I I've been

240
00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:43.620 A:middle L:90%
starting to try to understand whether educational games can be

241
00:14:43.629 --> 00:14:48.200 A:middle L:90%
a useful device for helping people learn science and math

242
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.950 A:middle L:90%
and other subjects, because there are a lot of

243
00:14:50.950 --> 00:14:52.519 A:middle L:90%
strong claims made for educational games. And there are

244
00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.590 A:middle L:90%
a lot of really smart visionaries who have these very

245
00:14:56.590 --> 00:14:58.889 A:middle L:90%
nice pictures of what the future is going to be

246
00:14:58.899 --> 00:15:01.620 A:middle L:90%
based on games. But I think somebody needs to

247
00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:05.590 A:middle L:90%
do the, you know, the basic research on

248
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.059 A:middle L:90%
what works and what doesn't work and what are the

249
00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:11.649 A:middle L:90%
features of games that are effective or not effective?

250
00:15:11.659 --> 00:15:13.240 A:middle L:90%
So that's I call that the value added approach so

251
00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.320 A:middle L:90%
that that's what I've kind of gotten an interest in

252
00:15:16.330 --> 00:15:20.429 A:middle L:90%
lately. Okay, good. Well, we'll look

253
00:15:20.429 --> 00:15:22.840 A:middle L:90%
forward to your contributions in those areas to, Okay

254
00:15:22.850 --> 00:15:24.330 A:middle L:90%
. Thank you so much. Rich. I don't

255
00:15:24.330 --> 00:15:26.789 A:middle L:90%
have any further questions. Well, thank you very

256
00:15:26.789 --> 00:15:28.860 A:middle L:90%
much. I enjoyed it.