The members of this panel are going to introduce themselves
in just a moment. I'll give you their names
, Juan Bicarregui, of the Research Data Alliance and
E-science Institute, Lluis Anglada of the Consorcia de
Biblioteca universitares.
and the Luciana Duranti to of Interpares Insistra. They
will each give just a couple minutes on their background
, what brings them to this stuff, what their
background, the basis of uh Harrison community alignment,
informing communities is. And then we'll go to a
series of questions to prompt discussion on the panel and
broad topics of community formation and also invited questions on
into these areas from the audience. So why don't
we go in the order of the Program? And
We'll Go 1st 1. Yes. Mhm. Forward
I'm home. Mhm. Uh development everybody. So
climate ranging from the sciences, Economics, citizens council
. Um I'm gonna tell you a few different things
I'm involved in which are relevant today. Just associate
really, I'm coming at this, my experiences in
the management of research. So that is very much
perspective than So firstly, the job like uh,
for that, which is that picture there where we
have a lot of large scale scientific facilities. Uh
one of the back there is the diamond synchrotron where
we accelerate electrons to create uh high intensity light materials
. The other end of the site is the ISIS
neutron facility, which is another facility structure matter by
accelerating protons. Which then, um, so these
are very large scale facilities that are used by community
for material science, uh, create a lot of
uh, well, there is a laser facility,
it's physically smaller in terms of intensity of energy,
much higher. Uh used to really, uh hi
basically a mentor jeans and a very small spots then
what happens when, if that special pieces um,
Over there is our own country building. We understood
anywhere in the 1950s, we have one of the
first, uh, the UK and that we feel
there is now competing facility where departments provision, where
we manage the data that comes off these facilities.
Sc sc also has another um, somebody that's in
astronomy facilities. So we're creating things all the,
all together in the area prospect face pleasure and of
course a large 100 where um, that proposal was
recently discovered this campaign so that my job there is
to look up to develop on the systems to imagine
that scientific data that those citizens done something. So
, um, another old enough and is working with
the other research councils in the UK, trying to
develop some common principles on data on policy really.
And We came up with dust somewhere about uh,
seven principles on the first thing that this is worse
than the published now. Um and uh the others
followed beyond that. How we manage that. Uh
If you put those on three dimensions, so that
the data itself uh classic. That's probably good.
Uh but just because it's probably good, it doesn't
mean that it is itself. So there's a kind
of tension between the uh good public and the fact
that somebody has to take responsibility. Another dimension,
which you can think there's some tension is around the
probability. On the one hand, we want to
make the principles and make available as possible. On
the other hand, some constraints uh constraints around privacy
or so, there's another tension there. We have
to manage to these principles. And the third dimension
is about the intellectual property with funded research. We
want to ensure that appropriate recognition is given to the
so the creators of the and that is achieved by
giving the first use of that data in most areas
. On the other hand, by being the first
use, we are perhaps limiting these some initial period
, which is against the so there's a tension there
and bounce those as well. Those three uh dimensions
of policy are in those principles and trying to create
a balance is appropriate. One thing I've learned that
nothing for this conference, in developing these principles across
the seven councils, each of which feels different area
of research is that it's really, really hard to
generalize across disciplines. We have been working for many
years now trying to bring together because the world is
different. This place is not something you don't feel
well, so the mother to come back and I
suspected several times a day. Um Another thing I
do is the pancakes Consortium, which is a consortium
of similar organizations to S. T. F.
C. Facilities and facilities across europe. 11 facilities
across europe now involving more something the U. S
. Um And there we are trying within our own
field of large facilities to develop standards and common infrastructure
more efficient people use your facility. Thirdly, the
research later realizes was mentioned earlier. Uh huh.
And so many have seen before. But uh the
reason is about trying to establish the infrastructure and technologies
for collecting data and in order to do that to
people. Um And the bridge metaphor here, if
we look at, if you think of a vertical
dimensions, disciplines, horizontal dimension is the interaction between
them. There are different models of bridge that we
might consider building to do this connection of the data
, of the people. Uh This is the left
here, Bridge and Rhonda, which you can see
it's a very very strong disciplinary science here and I'll
be a small, high level connection between them.
Um, this is the fourth bridge here. The
disciplinary silos are reaching out towards each other and a
small piece of interconnections between because they are reaching out
very modern bridge and allowed here has probably the vertical
silence, very, very minimum needed in order to
establish transfer now, which one of these we need
to do in our in our Area of connected data
is not at all clear that we go back to
a very, very old design. This is a
Roman aqueduct in France, 2000 years old now and
we can see that it's a combination of elements and
different levels. So you can see in the policy
technology and so mainly with girls build this kind of
bridge. I really do not think that build hopefully
investment, just very superficial connections to the very sight
of us. So that's my personal view of what
the research is trying to do. How does it
? Well, it has members, individuals joined as
members of the just sign up and it runs some
interest groups and some working groups which are really self
forming groups of individuals. We would get together to
discuss topics. And so concept challenges. Now we
are starting to look at organizational membership of RDS.
Organizations joins, give, give an organizational view and
we will establish an organizational assembly where organizations get together
and discuss and form common views and thanks. So
that is the research data reliance. The next meeting
is in Dublin in March, encourage you to sign
up for it. The last thing I want to
mention is the idea of a european, mostly mostly
european initiative to ensure that a lot of people uh
like uh, which is that picture there where we
have a lot of large scale facilities. Uh one
of the back there is the diamond synchrotron where we
accelerate electrons create uh high intensity night. Uh so
the materials, the other end of the site is
the ISIS neutron facility concerned another structure of matter by
accelerating protons, nice shower. Um so these are
very large scale facilities that are used by community for
material science uh create. Uh there is a laser
facility, it's physically smaller in terms of intensity of
energy much higher. Uh used to really uh incredibly
high. This is the 11 genes of the very
small spots. That's better. That's not what this
is. Um Over there is our own country building
the building where in the 1950s we have one of
the first uh the UK. And that we feel
there is now a facility where departments and divisions where
we manage the data that these facilities. Sfc also
has another um yeah, that's a very astronomy as
possible officers starting bills South Africa were creating things,
we always got a free area the prospect of pleasure
and of course a large 100 where um days hotel
was recently discovered for cantor so that my job there
is to look up to develop other systems to imagine
that scientific data that comes off those citizens, what's
up? So um another roman I've had is in
working with the other research councils in the UK,
trying to develop some common principles on data on policy
really. Um and We came up with dust somewhere
about seven principles, things are the first thing that
this is worse than the publish, let's go now
. Um and uh we always follow beyond that about
how we manage that and if you put those on
three dimensions, so that the data itself, we
class it. It's probably good. Uh but just
because it's probably good, doesn't mean that it is
itself. So there's a kind of tension between be
a good probably the fact that somebody has to say
responsibility another dimension. Which you can think there's some
tension is around the probability. Today. On the
one hand, I want to make a follow the
open uh principles and make data is openly available as
possible. On the other hand, there are some
constraints uh constraints around privacy or confidentiality. It's not
that. So there's another tension there that we have
to manage these principles. And the third dimension is
about the intellectual property with public funding research. We
want to ensure that recognition is given to the so
the creators of the uh that is achieved by giving
the first use of that data. Uh Most areas
on the other hand, beginning first use we are
perhaps limiting the use some initial period which is against
the so there's a tension there and we have to
balance those as well. Those three Dimensions of policy
are are all in those principles and trying create the
balance is appropriate. One thing I've learned for this
conference in developing these principles across the seven councils,
each of which area of research is that it's really
, really hard to generalize across disciplines with have been
working for many years now trying to bring together different
policies because the world is different. Mhm. That's
all it will something mother had come back to I
suspected several times a day. Um Another thing I
do is the Plan Data Consortium which is a consortium
of similar organizations to Sgst facilities and facilities across europe
, 11 facilities across europe and also now involving more
in the US. Um and there we are trying
within our own field of large facilities to develop standards
and common infrastructure more efficient means more than promises.
Thirdly, the research data realizes was mentioned earlier,
I've been involved in setting up uh and so many
countries before, but here. Uh the reason is
about trying to establish the infrastructure of the technologies for
collecting data and in order to do that to people
. Um and the bridge metaphor here, if we
look at, if you think of the vertical dimensions
, disciplines and horizontal dimension is the interaction between them
. There are different models of bridge that we might
consider building to do this connection of the data,
of the people. This in the bottom left here
to bridge and Rhonda, which you can see it's
a very, very strong disciplinary silence here and be
a small, high level connection between them. Um
, the forth bridge here, the disciplinary silos are
reaching out towards each other and a small piece of
interconnections between because they are reaching out very long bridge
and has possibly the vertical silos very, very minimum
needed in order to establish transfer now, which one
of these we need to do in our in our
Area of connecting data is not at all clear that
maybe we go back to a very, very old
design here. This is a Roman aqueduct in France
, 2000 years old now and we can see that
it's a combination of personal and um, and the
different levels. So you can see in the policy
technology in this. So mainly with girls build this
kind of group show and I really do not think
that build a woman dressed, hopefully investment, just
very significant connections result. He's like us. So
that's my personal view of what the research is trying
to do. How does it? Well, it
has members, individuals joined. Members just sign up
and it runs some interest groups and some working groups
which are really self forming groups of individuals who get
together to discuss topics. So contact challenges. Now
we are starting to look at organizational membership of RDS
, organizations joined to give uh, organizational view and
we will establish an organizational assembly where organizations get together
and discuss and form common fields. Thanks. So
that is the research data reliance. The next meeting
is in March, encourage you to sign up for
. The last thing I wanted to mention is the
idea of a european, mostly mostly european initiative.
Last access. I'm sure a lot of people have
come across it. And the particular European European project
, 1000, which is a network project bringing together
those organizations that have got their hands on that slide
and possibly some more as well side slightly out of
date Um and it's a collaborative money for about 10
years now. Were involved as a person start and
again the word alliance into the title, just like
in the research alliance. And I think that that
word is the right words to capture the freedom of
aligning, which is a music company. I'm very
photo time to talk. So that's where I'm coming
from. It's definitely from the data perspective rather than
the publication and hopefully in the discussion you'll see not
options. Well, uh I am not a specialist
in preservation meeting a but my job in the last
15 years has been to build communities to build communities
around. Thank you. To build community center problem
. Library projects. Now a lot of consortium that
with members and one problem in this moment. Uh
huh. 12 different. Mhm. Traditional problems really
150 different institutions participate in these problems at different levels
. But my thoughts about how to in this case
a line people, how to make that people cooperate
in this case around the preservation. Thinking about that
. I remember my first time that I visit United
Kingdom, it was in the seventies and I,
me and my friends we had which will prices one
for instance, it was nearly impossible to have a
beer Here to spend your to be at any time
. But at the time you need to go to
the park before 11 or something like that. The
second best different things that we ourselves is the way
how the people waited for the bus. Uh huh
. The people here is a picture from the people
waiting for us in a lot of countries. For
instance in spain some years ago now things varies a
lot that we could see is that people uh wait
for all of us. Doing a strange thing that
is called cute. They are on the line or
not. So they are aligned. Yeah. So
this this this is my job is to align people
because people sometimes you can be alignment, but always
there is someone that is difficult to line. That's
it. I have no the key imagine t to
do that. But my my my tools three almost
I selected three for today. Well when we talk
about the corporation or alignment, uh remember to talk
about the resources about effectiveness, about um discover sources
that sources that has been always discuss. It will
be more scarce in the near future. Uh This
probably is not the nice argument because it's nicer to
talk about the adultery. It's nice to talk about
the common objectives, everything that I this is the
first position because I did uh, yesterday at night
after the so probably a good to put the third
place. But we need to be clear clear that
we need, we are consuming a lot, a
lot of resources in language actually preserves. It doesn't
matter. So I am and always ready. And
I know I remember very well the huge amount of
resources that we invested in the past and still we
invested in cattle cataloging books could get along ones and
act like several times in the world. This makes
no sense. So, but you can get lost
. Help us is we're not logging every book that
is in language. We are almost saving things and
libraries know that we have a good examples in the
dream world where you came to show not only that
we are saving those sources but also you are able
to serve better the community. So effectivity. He
has to cool remaining losses to save it monument and
also to be able to create a better services for
your clients. The second thing that is useful when
you are in a choir of the world that is
Barcelona Catalonia doesn't want another. All the coin of
the world coins. We live in a very big
wall is to remember people that some things will be
solved internationally. Where the international community has his own
. Mm hmm objectives and priorities as mentioned in Portugal
for essentially we have political is very well known for
the sudden but particle is presenting subject not is presenting
the Harvard Business review or the international treatment of it
doesn't matter what. Here we have a very formal
yeah part of where we are collecting and collecting the
squad journals that publish it in Catalonia. We are
collecting some of the journals I imprint. Some others
are in electronic and we are trying to do something
there. Who will do is for us. People
from the United States, people from the audience office
says that you need to spread people that yes we
are in a global world. Some things that will
be impossible to do without global solutions for that.
Well you should participate in the international movement but at
the same time that you have a responsibility, you
have a special needs and your it's important is to
show which kind of needs to be very specific not
to talk in general but to be specific and to
say you have a nice electronic journal about. Library
in chief is publishing from the faculty of everybody in
chief. Is useful. Is only in digital.
Who is preserving that. Portugal, the National Library
of Netherland. Will we need to do that to
be specific and to talk about that we have a
portion of our responsible. Uh in my case the
foremost I repeat that we are consulting that. We
do. We try to do a lot of things
. Hotel line people around the reservation sounds quite quite
difficult for the majority of the library director so that
we treat is to introduce the challenge but Islamic but
do the challenge in the core of our activities.
Not as a new activity but as a part of
our activities here. It's quite clear if we are
collecting prints. If we are presenting Prince now we
began to collect digital. We need to present he's
probably isn't an argument not very sophisticated but for that
easy to understand. For over to you. The
job, Okay. My day job, he is
the chair of the Master of a cargo studies and
the PHP man cargo studies at the University of british
Columbia. Um, No. Uh huh. Yeah
. Well then. Okay, that's it. And
uh, but I am also the director of the
Center for the International Study of Contemporary Records and Archives
. That was established 15 years ago. Um,
as a place where international and national research in partnership
, developed training records and archives could be initiated and
cultivated among the key projects of Cisco to that are
present in the public trust. The first three phases
of enterprise records in the cloud, which is about
cloud computing. I don't know evidence of evidence in
the digital environment and the digital forensics. Um,
so, but I want to focus on in the
paris because it is a project that started a long
time ago and as being very successful now in the
paris means some of the fears originally latin and it
was intended to mean among peers and then became an
algorithm which is international research on permanent authentic like a
single atomic systems. The reason why it was meant
to be called that way is that is a highly
interdisciplinary that are multidisciplinary research. Uh It involves those
who create the material like journalists and musicians and writers
and scientists as well as um scientists who develop systems
to maintain and preserve these material and representatives of memory
institutions. Um So it is multinational. Um There
are representatives or more continents. It's multi sectorial uh
for example we have quite a bit of private participation
such as pharmaceutical industry, barrick, gold, native
communities etcetera. Um And of course because of this
multinational, multi nationality and multi disciplinary and multi sectorial
authority, we have lots of issues. Um and
uh so the idea was the research is about the
focus that is the preservation of the digital negative.
However each participants as the is invited to approach this
process from its own our own culture, um not
just national culture, but disciplinary culture, organizational culture
and so on and contribute that way and at the
same time is invited to take from the work of
the others, whatever is useful to peace or our
own agenda or purposes. So the cultural issue that
way, we're easily resolved because we would we would
allow the culture too creepy in and to influence what
it needed to influence them to take, what it
needed to take and reject what it needed to reject
. For example, at one point in paris too
, we had a big argument between the supporters of
the concept of the records continue our primary Australians And
the supporters of the record lifecycle, er one Premier
American and then all the others grouping around the up
the one or the other. Well, it was
pretty clear that this was this issue at their compound
rooms and there was no way of finding a compromise
. There was no compromise possible. So what we
did we develop a train of preservation model for the
people who believed in the life cycle and records continue
model for those who believe in the records, continue
their volunteer people can use what they wish and that's
how it has been going for all the issues on
which was calling majesty. Um Terminal logical issues were
very big. They were resolved with terminal logical database
, in which it was agreed in which meaning his
word is going to be used was going to be
used. That was the glossary, it was not
the right way in which was used was the one
that we agreed upon so that when people read our
documents they know what meaning words are used. But
then there is a dictionary with all the other definitions
for those words. And there are anthologies that who
told those words that represent concepts uh together into relationship
. So of course we had financial problems. Some
people have lots of money to put in, some
people have no money to put so we try to
organize things in such a way that everybody could equally
participate, spending what they could spend. So okay
, you cannot spend any time traveling in your organizational
problem. They're all coming to you from the main
or you know, it's whatever was available when it
was available or we would like to hold a research
workshop in those places and charge all the people in
the public who want to come. Um there were
problems related to collaboration itself. I don't want to
work with that guy, I want to work with
the other person or whatever, so let people grouped
together as they wish to grow. And so,
so the key to success where, first of all
and down set of every research and level we would
write the organizational policy, everybody has to sign.
So this is this is when the meetings are,
this is where you must be, this is where
you can be. Um this is how you publish
, this is how you quote all your site.
Uh this our research assistants are recognized, this is
how the co workers are guys, these are the
out that they have preserved. This is where they're
preserved. This is where it's responsible. There is
everything in that. Okay. It's funny pages,
but it covers everything that we do. So there's
no argument. Everybody signs on. We agreed on
the terminology. As I said, we agreed on
the conceptual framework. So at the outset, we
put the paper in the paris. Trust, what
is trust? Okay for us? Lot in general
, we started out by saying, okay, this
is trust in business, this is trust, the
law, this is trust. Are we going to
use it? Which is really trustworthiness of the material
that we intend to give and preserved. But that
was the big thing, clear expectations and are Well
, first face to face research, meaning those vital
at least two a year organizing. That's why most
people could participate or somebody. And the reason why
they were vital is that everybody that meeting presents the
data collect so far, the finding, the preliminary
finding and everything and everybody else gives feed them.
But that's not the primary reason why don't I?
The primary reason weather, but at least people have
a problem. You can't show up and have nothing
to show. So everybody knows that that every six
months that amount must be done and must be shown
and discussed and posted on the website two weeks before
so that everybody can read it. So there are
very clear rules and the face to face meeting are
very important. Clear expectations and deadlines. And of
course expectations are different according to each partner, what
their interests are, why they are in what their
agenda is, what they want to do. But
they're clearly stated out. Um so all these complementary
agendas are fulfilled. And we built a very strong
in the personal relationships, dinners and lunches, detail
important, walking around cities. That wine is very
important even if I were granting agency Government center.
But uh we found Savoy financing the wine too.
But it is very important the fact that in all
our very large group, nobody wants to let the
other stuff. If everybody feels really responsible, that
if I don't do this work, it is not
that I look back, everybody looks back, we
are not fulfilling what we promised we would do.
And so we prepare after exactly 12 months from the
beginning of each project. We are my stones document
, we debate by that date, that thing will
be finished. The other thing will be finished,
The other state will be finished. And then you
know, nobody wants to let the entire group.
So there is a very strong sentiment of ownership when
our granting agency which regularly scrutinizes us. It comes
every two years college in the US and listening to
our work and and looking at US, et cetera
when it comes always notes that nobody in the group
paper says I everybody says, well, it is
it is everybody's research. And I think that this
sense of pride also the fact that all the common
results, the ones in which everybody has participated,
that sometimes the copyright sign on it, that means
everybody can use it out there. You can build
your career on all those data, right? As
many articles as you want. That really push people
. We have pride of the outcome in all outcome
and to be willing to disseminate it and to interpreted
in its own way. I heard that the conference
in paris on grading their degradation of our concepts of
authenticity that they are never before this went the people
from the national kinds of France. And then I
said when at one point in the chain of preservation
in the paris ST that description of digital records is
necessary to freeze all the connections that electoral connections among
the rest. And so to authenticate the records,
what they're doing, they're talking about collective authenticity which
doesn't exist in that, in any other skills.
So they were building old categories of authenticity, diplomatic
, the political thinking, that and that was dale
. You know, outside contribution in a way,
because this is not something that we got to all
together, but that what we produced together with the
foundation for each one to build them, it's all
way and something interesting. So let's transition to more
of a conversation with you in the audience. And
because the concept of community is so foundational to any
sort of collaboration or alignment, effort, reliance,
effort. Again, we thought we would start with
this. And let me say the community, the
concept of community is obviously involved and appropriate many different
levels of tremendous, tremendously different levels of complexity came
from a small circle of friends to a organization to
a nation. So let me invite the panelists and
the responses to these questions and comments from the audience
that we can constructively and creatively disagree on different aspects
of community formation and what contributes to best practices and
communities. And if you can tried to both generalize
about these aspects of community formation in your comments,
but also differentiate them as to what type of community
construction we're talking about, think it would be helpful
. So let me start with the most foundational aspect
of it. Could I ask the members of and
then the Iranians to comment on? What do you
think are the best ways to develop a sense of
community, to give the community a sense of identity
, to create it, to bring it in,
To give us an inception, to bring it about
and comment on both barriers and effective strategies for doing
that. And you're very different text. Yeah.
Now calling well, in my specific case, I
start out by identifying what is the deepest concern for
a specific person or existing project or group, which
has to pay all the kind of research or initiatives
that I want to start. And I addressed this
person's own persons organization by identifying in which way,
working with us, good heart and it would be
good for them. That's the way you gotta go
is the onwards to all the various newspapers, pointing
out all the problems they add ad and how in
fact if they worked with us on our issues that
would be addressed the other with the address. The
other way in which my community has been built is
, as you can say, it has existed for
a long time. Most lots of people started as
student research assistance and then they graduate and then they
became part of institutions and then they brought their institutions
in and then they became heads of institutions. And
so every time they would come back and say,
now I am bringing you know the red Cross to
work with you. Now, I am bringing the
work back to work with you now. It is
now a relationship with the world back. It's a
relationship with all my ex students that are building up
, but they have the interest build them right.
And then they build that interest within the partnership,
within the organization which they are working and then they
are bringing the interest of the other organization to bear
. Also, I'm not like this. I think
in right here is we have a kind of easy
right on this one because in my day job facilities
, the community is not around the physical infrastructure.
There comes in two different places. There are communities
around a research area, use these events. Research
with a lot of the facilities we run multidisciplinary.
So that is this is which is the first yeah
disciplines coming to use the same equipment so that in
my police device in physical infrastructure but the similar thing
. Bye. For the understood. So where there
is nice weather is so back and forth. Well
, sort of applications communities build around. So I
think we've covered it from infrastructure point of view from
this is it's another little story. The weather started
this scientific computing 18 years ago, a lot of
the facilities were really seen as a physical facility where
you can you did your experiment, you put some
data obviously the world took it away. That's really
changed a lot. The culture is much much more
. Do your experiment days where it is Okay that's
involved because that's where all the applications, the software
, the storage else you need. That's all going
into a much more sense. Yes, Going on
this one. Yeah. As well. But the
expertise that is needed myself mistake. So I think
clustering around this is Mhm. No clustered around.
Okay. Yes, yes. So I don't know
if I have to tell us answer that they will
play two Room 2 Comments. First World. This
is true that this is not only the problem for
us. Hope to get simple, there's a lot
of problems. We are we are sharing this is
the wall and we are we are in the same
thing but with the this place, will you be
is we can feel an international you've Yeah, if
we are not able at the same time to,
to engage in this especially a little bit With the
global and makes upon 40 on the same at the
international level, visions and objectives can be very good
to know. No, sure and you came to
, you get to join different people because the world
is huge is but at the same time that this
objective is completely necessary, you need but it's very
, very specific. Two, be able to improve
this objective is why not in the the day to
day life of people that used to run the day
to day life could not to be socialized specific.
So we human beings usually we have, we are
delighted more in the in language for instance, collecting
books and reading books, how to hope you can
to involve the collectors of books. This song specific
objective that we need is to solve this kind of
two different axes is too, it is the challenge
that leave nature to us is called to notify the
voices, hope that was was sick. The call
to share the same aim or mister homely define that
we are different but we are shaking very specific objectives
and this is not easy to do. But the
solution in my to go to empower the local communities
. We cannot to get fantastic objectives very, very
specific without strong engaged of a small and humble communities
. Mm So let me invite the audience to share
a comment about either barriers you've encountered in building a
sense of community or things that have worked well for
you. I think we have like Cliff brought up
the notion that I think is an interesting one of
both the barrier and an opportunity of interdependence I thought
was pretty thought provoking the notions of genealogy of mentorship
, regional, brought out of practices and medical infrastructure
and practice discussed. And then just these four sharing
agenda. Could you identify yourself production max dangerous.
I'm a some things mostly in meta data moment and
I had some experiences building words w and also in
some work very well. one of the work I
think for communities what so not just well and also
a person right? Your ideals of actually creating some
ownership, doing and also trying some points. Judge
welcome that you keep momentum up rather you can see
it starts with very light, it dies down.
All right. But I think also looking at the
size of if you 100 people Yeah, one person
. In fact it's also not going to work in
your hand. Hungary. They're going to argue about
every so what you need to have come on.
Yeah. People actually driving the agenda. Yeah.
So broke. A small group builds larger room collection
, descendant election creates awareness. Mhm. Finding the
right balance drivers and forward. No. Mm.
Yeah, I heard you but Hello. Um So
I'm really just in the UK, I just want
to pick up on that point. I was sitting
here thinking so communities in different reservation. Uh The
thing I'd like one of things I like about working
this area over the years is this sense that there
is an international digital preservation community we prefer to the
words perhaps it's a series of community so often different
ones. Um So I think there is something that's
working around this whole topic area but nonetheless it's better
of course. And then I was thinking, well
, so what what does it be successful? Community
looks like? I'm not thinking about the Digital Preservation
Coalition in the UK and things have gone good collection
of organizations, it's very positive feel to it.
And one of the things, one of the reasons
I think that that's worked well over the years because
it's had good leadership and I need this picks up
on the previous point about people driving people following.
And although the community would seem to suggest that there's
this kind of democratic, well amongst a large group
of people, I think that this sense sense of
leadership is extremely important. And I wonder if the
panel, I want to talk about how we might
foster better leadership amongst that communities. But you know
, um well in our 250 people groups, 40
countries, we are very structured and what we do
is first of all, they are divided the regional
teams except regional needs one continent, except for the
trans national team which is all the multinational organizations like
unesco the world etcetera. But then there is one
leader for each one of these regional team and that's
all together areas alliance during committee. But within each
team there is a leader for each domain of research
, one on access, one on security, one
control etcetera. And so we go down, it
is in a hierarchy, but everyone is responsible to
the next level and it has always worked well this
way um of the things that he said before I
pass the word to the others. Uh It struck
me that he said we know of the digital presence
, there is a digital preservation community, right?
And I was thinking that it is a part of
the digital preservation community that doesn't know to be apart
presentation community, for example, the cloud Alliance of
the industry. They are preserving our stuff not just
keeping their story for long term preservation for many organizations
and institutions. So there what what do you do
when you identify community like that and you know they're
going their way and they don't read anyone, writes
about archives or libraries et cetera. You go to
their confidences, you used to meet the paper and
you speak to them and I was like three weeks
ago by the confidence of the International Cloud Security Alliance
. And the first keynote speaker was our Schmidt who
has been advised to couple presidents of the US who
basically said the answer is not technological. The answer
is policy and procedure and you have got to make
your country's words that the second one was the head
of the international alliance who basically said all the things
that we say among ourselves about the cloud, but
they never put that much to you because you are
the users right? We are not dress back.
We do not allow to demonstrate a chain of preservation
. We do have to copyright along the middle data
we put on the material so we don't allow access
to them and they kept least go to things that
scare us, but they never tell you your face
. So basically what I did there was to say
you have identified all these problems. We have got
the answer one to play and yes they do.
Of course they see us as a potential enormous clients
base and and yes, they can work with us
, something that makes them and it makes us happy
. There we go. To the international framework that
was talking about. That's what the aero special industry
has done. When you get to apply, you
don't go and interview the pilots before sitting down to
see whether you can trust him. Right? Because
there is a framework that has done that. We
want to do the same with all this preservation community
. Doesn't know to be a reservation reading the trust
framework of people, policy level. Yeah, that's
about we are also. Mm. Yes, I
think I think that brings but also on the side
there is Oscar show host. Yeah. Yeah.
Right, quit the job to the leader since at
least. Well, yeah, soon dropped two sources
to try and solve running out of time. But
some key themes that emerged in these comments, I
think, revolved around alignment of motivations, aligned trust
, developing trust. A lot of these go in
the digital preservations here revolve around what cliff called stewardship
transitions. Yeah, I have observed, you know
, that's an interesting issue to get at it again
is both a challenge of barrier in an opportunity,
having a conversation be very difficult to have a conversation
with the project about long term stewardship of its content
. Whatever content develop when you have to address the
difficult issue of Well, what if this effort,
this organization group goes away? How do you plan
for succession? That that content is no group community
project wants to consider the possibility that doesn't exist anymore
that state. And it's difficult to get you can
have the conversation about life insurance with individuals often because
they have a sense of getting in continuity with their
own family. But when you abstracted to the sense
of community contact, it's very hard to get that
same focus on what happens. How are you going
stuff? Yes. Volume. Scientific value researchers or
for others. Yes. Um does anybody have any
comments of ideas of how to those are wide ranging
group issues, but think a core that is building
trust and long term sustainability. Mhm Tom Wilson,
I think one of the key is. Yeah.
Yeah, I think yes, library transparent gonna bring
Anthony this real side. We also need to have
there is a certain level time period it is necessary
or typical corporation existence. Can you two things on
one is we have a right know what may not
know all of the pieces of how, but we
have a white what's that needs to be transparency.
There there also needs to be a level intellectual honesty
. The corporate side realizing corporation No more guarantee of
survival. Yeah. Other human that here may have
tensions with the US ended initiative, the National Digital
Infrastructure and Information Preservation. and there were four of
projects about long term stewardship transitions of corporate records.
Mm No, we're telling you worked along. Right
Kiss me. Mm. That I think that question
again goes to the issues around legal frameworks that Cliff
brought up this morning about what happens, who we
have to redevelop. A framework for creating inheritors will
take risks, will be able to take responsibility for
bodies of that they didn't originate. But that deserves
to be preserved. Would do that societies and larger
context of useful relations. Even more child. Yeah
. Yes. Just one brief commented. It was
interesting. Thanks about the responsibility for inside the response
. Access to my experience. At least we hope
it's a much easier to sell to say the window
access to take responsibility for providing access to this so
much easier self inside observance because the better provide access
. Yes, of course about access you have.
It's just an observation said the way it is preservation
is about that's this is it's not too far everything
that we need to preserve forever like hospital records for
example or bank records or whatever. So um yes
, I think that we have to make a special
effort to move at the level where model legislation and
the best like the european commission, it issues directives
. Directives allow every country to issue domestic legislation that
is consistent with the principle stated in the directives and
that is the framework. That's how my time along
as well. Maritime law has always regulated commerce among
different countries and that image has established basic principles allowed
to deal with things. So I think that that's
you know in candidate worked with the model local electronics
, um evidence, the model law was issued at
the federal level, but then it was implemented within
each candidate's act within each province that were very different
. That it in fact close consistent with the model
law was included everywhere. So there was consistency across
the country. So I don't see why we shouldn't
push for that's not such thing. But in order
to do so we have to move to the people
who actually make policy and convince them. And that's
why I asked that question at the beginning about why
at the unesco confidence where all these policy makers were
sitting and the industry was sitting there was almost nobody
from any memory institutions. We have got to keep
an eye who goes where and be there. Very
strong community that yes, this is truly spending.
Talk about preservation. We don't my opinion is because
for for for managers they feel that this is a
problem that is very, very far when Yeah,
I think if we compare this a bit like a
change of the climate scientific know that this is true
, but people doesn't perceive but probably in our case
with variants, we talk about this conservation doesn't receive
. He says the needle was a budget. What
we need is to from these specializations for our field
is too to show clear way home standard. I
think we're time. So that sure, first.