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I want to thank everybody for coming. This is

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our first official event for Open Access Week. And

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I'm going to begin by introducing Philip Young, who

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is the organizer of this week and the libraries' chair

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of our Open knowledge Committee. Thanks Gail. I

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just wanted to mention our schedule for the week.

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We have five events this week. Um and our

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schedule is back there on the table. Um This is

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our first event for Open Access Week. Um Tomorrow

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we have a session on data and digitization uh here

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in this room at 1:30. That's data and

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digitization for the liberal arts and human sciences. Um

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On Wednesday we have a session on our Open Access

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Fund which is increasingly popular and which Gail and I

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help operate here in the libraries to help pay the

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article processing fees for some open access journals. So

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you can find out more about it at that session.

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On Thursday, I'm leading a session on scholarly

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publishing trends. Uh there's it's a really dynamic environment

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right now, a lot going on with scholarly publishing.

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So we're gonna cover open access as well as

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other things like uh bibliometrics, um changes in peer

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review and other topics. Uh And then Thursday evening

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is our our keynote address. We're bringing in Victoria

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Stodden from the University of Illinois to speak about scholarly

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communication in the era of big data and big computation.

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So we feel really fortunate to have her coming

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to Virginia Tech this year. That will be at

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7:00 over in Davidson Hall 281. Um So

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in all of our events are available for N.L.I.

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credit including tonight. So um

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so I think that's it. Thank you all very

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much for coming and thank you to our panelists

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Thank you. So like to welcome you

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all officially to this faculty graduate student panel on open

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access. Um I'm Gail McMillan, I'm the director

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of Scholarly Communication at the here at Virginia Tech Library.

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And um let me just start by defining open

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access. So we're all on the same page.

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Um definition of open access is literature is digital online,

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free of charge and free of most copyright and

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licensing restrictions. What makes it possible is the internet

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and the consent of the author and the copyright holder.

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And I think maybe one of the things that

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also makes it possible is library support and we do

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that in a variety of ways. Um the library

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has a part of what we do in Scholarly Communication

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is helped to publish online journals and conference proceedings so

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we can provide support for that. Um we also,

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as Philip said, we manage the open access

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subvention fund and several of you I invited because

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you've taken advantage of that fund. And um I'll be

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doing a session on Wednesday at 10:00 in 3080 Torgerson

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so if you know anybody that might be interested in

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subvention fund and like I would like to know

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more about it or they can just come and fill

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out the form right there with me at hand in

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case they need help. So let me introduce our panelists and then we'll

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move along first on my right Titilola Obilade. I hope I

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said that right. Um she's earned her PhD in

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Learning Sciences and Technologies last spring, her dissertation Investigating

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the Alignments between Scholarly and Popular Text and Design Content

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Analysis is publicly available in VTechWorks. Um

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as are several of the articles that she's published. Next

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to Titilola is Sascha who is a PhD candidate in ASPECT

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the Alliance Political, Ethical and Cultural Theory Archives during

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its work and she is also a PhD candidate.

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She's in the department of Biological Sciences and she has

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published an article Plos One of the open access journals

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we supported. Next to Alison is Carola Haas

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who's a professor in the Department of Fish and Wildlife

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Conservation in the College of Natural Resources and Environment and

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she's published the open access subvention fund also.

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Um so she said so that she can reach land

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managers, independent contractors, conservationists in developing countries,

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many of whom lack access to extensive journals. Next

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to Carola is Scott King professor in the department of

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Geosciences where he says he studies the interiors of terrestrial

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plants, must be so. He is the senior executive editor

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of GeoResJ an open access

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interdisciplinary online journal. Um And he has also served

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as an editor of Earth and Planetary Science Letters which

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is not an opening access journal. And end of the line

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we have Jeremy Ernst who is an Associate Professor of

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Integrative STEM Education, he's also on the faculty of

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the Institute for Creative Arts and Technology. He's an

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associate director of the Office of Education, Research and

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Outreach and an affiliate faculty member for the College of

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no, for Engineering Education. And he

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was our very first subvention fund applicant, successful, back in

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fiscal year 2013. Yes, with the very first

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one. So now I'll let them do the talking

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and I just want to remind everybody when I invited

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them to participate in the panel. I told them

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it would be very informal. There was nothing to

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prepare. We just wanted to know about your experiences

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with open access, your opinions about it and then

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maybe you'll have a conversation among yourselves will invite the

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audience to to comment or have questions as well.

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So would like to start. Okay, thank you.

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Thanks for inviting me. Um The first experience

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I had was actually online through the central um publishing

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site, I had an article I wanted to publish

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um there it was a journal and the cost was

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in the thousands, but somewhere in the lines I

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said, check if your institution is um had of

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this med Central so that it can get some reduction

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and so I read through all the lines and he

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said Virginia tech was part of it that I would

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have some 20% because he was asking for something in

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1000 spots. So when I read it and I

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wanted to submit again, that was stopped. I

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need to check something. So that's how I got

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to gail. I'm like, okay, this is

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my article and this is what I saw on the

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website, but I don't understand what it meant.

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And so that's how I got to know. And

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um, she explained to me it didn't seem very

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difficult what the sub pension fund was all about and

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I got into it. I'm like, okay if

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it's 15 and biomedicine hold something like 18, what

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happens to the remaining three already on top of it

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was like, well that comes to my, I've

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got to do that. So I did some mathematical

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calculation and I'm like, okay if I can get

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um, other other journals that will have something less

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within the 1005, I could get some fashion fun

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without having to pay out of working for myself,

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which I eventually did. And there wasn't much,

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for example about it at all. It was all

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through email. I didn't have to come knocking at

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her door, anything like that. But the most

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important thing was the journal must have accepted the article,

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you know, even though on the options on

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the website was like, has been accepted or something

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like that. Um, what was key was that?

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The journal had the applicant must have been accepted

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by the um by the general then the process was

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much faster and that was it. That's it.

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And I've I've actually done like several after that,

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you know, it was it was the same person

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It was pretty quick, that's all I have

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to say. Thank you. Uh Yeah, thanks

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for having me. Uh I was the editor of

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the Social, political, ethical and cultural Theory Archives

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Spectra um last academic year, the way we do

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it is we we have um we used to have

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one person. Now it's two persons my immediate successors

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that our editors now is two people. Um And

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every one of us is we all have a three

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year period. You start out as an editor um

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elect. Uh That was two years ago, then

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you become editor for a year and then editor emeritus

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um for the third year and that's what I am

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right now. Editor emeritus. Um And so when

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I was editor elect two years ago, uh 2013,

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Yeah. Um We were spectacles posted on a

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Wordpress platform. Um And uh that came with the

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domain name, which we still have thanks to the

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generosity of the library spectra journal dot org. Um

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And uh we had always tried to keep the articles

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such that or to keep the publication such that the

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authors would retain copyright um and such that it would

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be as freely accessible as possible um without them having

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to pay any fees because it's a graduate student journal

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and it's a graduate student run graduate student journal,

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which means we try to provide an environment that was

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as friendly to publishing and as friendly to dissemination as

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possible. Um And then during my tenure as editor,

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we moved from the Wordpress platform to um the

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Open Journal Systems hosted by the library um e journals.

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Uh And so we have been using the Open

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Journal Systems platform throughout the last year, and we

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are using it now, which has a number of

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uh very beneficial consequences, particularly for the authors because

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they now unlike the Wordpress platform, which was all

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based on email between the authors and editors and the

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editors in between them and then the edit respect to

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the authors, authors copy editors. Right? Uh

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So instead now we have this platform which hosts the

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articles and which allows us to um which allows authors

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to submit them independent of sending us an email,

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which allows us to manage them independent of sending emails

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to the authors and sending emails amongst ourselves and which

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allows the peer reviewers to access them directly on the

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platform. So that's that's very useful for us.

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And the added benefit too, is that the authors

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get a chance to log in at any point during

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the process and see what the article where the articles

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at and what the what the process is all about.

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Um So there's this added convenience um and uh

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through e journals we benefit greatly from any improvements that

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are made um more or less in real time uh

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to the server architecture and to the architecture of the

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journal itself, to the functionality and all this stuff

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because it's constantly updated and it's constantly in the works.

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Um So yeah, you know, it looks

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much better than on the Wordpress platform I think.

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Um and it's much more functional and much more convenient,

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And yet we still retain the principle that the

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authors retain their copyright and so they can do with

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the articles as after they publish them on spectrum.

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They can do with articles uh they can continue using

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the articles, reworking them, keeping them more as

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works in progress and yet allow them to be disseminated

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as widely as possible. So, so um my

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experience has been with publishing and plus one um which

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is a open access journal and We are in a

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funding gap for our lab and needed to get publications

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out and um without money to publish them, the

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couple$1,000 that it takes um adds up fast.

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And so um I had actually done some research and

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found the library suspension fund and I actually told my

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adviser, you know, hey there's the sub mention

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fund, you know, we could and she was

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on the fence about publishing my work because we didn't

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have the money to publish it. And so I

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found the suspension fund and said, you know if

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we publish and plus one this is the cost the

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library is willing to pay, we can publish my

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article and we don't have to sit around and wait

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on it. And so um we actually used it

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have used the suspension suspension fund for publishing two articles

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at this point and I've submitted a third. Um

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and so it's really helped me where my research was

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put at the bottom of the barrel for our lab

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because we didn't have direct funding for it. I

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was able to get that published um faster through the

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library's help with that. And there's also the added

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convenience of its now open access. So it's more

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widely disseminated and more people are able to use it

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to further their research as well. And so um

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when looking at some of the other articles that I

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have published and um micro biology journals specifically, there

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aren't open access. Um my ones that are in

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open access journals have more views because they're um easier

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to find and actually get a copy of it and

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read it without having to pay for it. So

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it's helped boost some of that research as well.

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Well, I have also used this invention fund and

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I published in a journal that's a traditional, you

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know paper and ink journal. But it does do,

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I mean it has online presence now as everything

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does, but it does have a mixed open access

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platform. And so you know, when you submit

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an article, once it's accepted, they'll tell you,

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you know, if you'd like to publish it

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open access, that'll be$3,000 if you'd like to

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publish it, you know, in our traditional way,

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it's actually free, which is unusual for my

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field. Most journals in my field have page charges

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just for the print print version of, you know,

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usually between 90 and 100 and$50 per page.

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So it's pretty standard to pay $1000 or $1500

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for a journal article. And I do budget for

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that in my grants. But 3000 is a lot

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more. And um, you know, I hadn't

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budgeted that. It's hard for a sponsor when you

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think, well you could higher not undergraduate technician for

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the summer and give them some great research experience for,

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you can, you can, you can publish

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this this paper. And so um, The,

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the pension fund was was great that it covered about

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half that cost. So I still had to pony

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up$1,500 where I could have just done it for

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free if I had just done it for free.

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But since I had already budgeted for page charges,

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you know, that that journal, for whatever reason,

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it just happened to drop drop page charges.

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So this was a journal, wetlands, wetlands.

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But um, that worked out well for me,

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but it's a, it's a fascinating thing to,

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to think about the process. When I was in

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graduate school, even when I was an undergraduate.

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You know, I mean, we just, I

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had paper copies of everything and I remember thinking about,

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you had to be a member of a journal.

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I mean, you could subscribe, but of

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course the libraries, they charge libraries, astronomical rates,

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so that, you know, rather than subscribing,

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you would be a member of the society that

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published the journal. And I remember joining the most

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obscure societies in my field because I knew wherever I

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went, you know, even if I ended up

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at some small liberal arts college that everybody would have

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the journal ecology or you know, that everybody would

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have the major journals in my field, but you

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know, the little ones. So I remember,

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you know, being very strategic about which organizations you

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joined, so you can have access to their their

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journals. And it's such a different world now where,

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you know, that you used to be,

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you know, so proud of you had your collection

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going back to 1972 or whatever it was. And

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now it just takes up room on room on the

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shelves. And so it's a but it's still it's

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still definitely a system in transition because, you know,

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I just actually, I just had a students

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submitted where I get a paper accepted in the exact

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same journal. And You know, in this time

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we just went with the free, even though I

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still had, you know, we could have come

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back to the the Prevention Fund, but it still

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would have cost me the$1,500. And in this

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case it was I mean, not to say anything

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bad about the student's paper, you know, it's

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a fine paper, but you know, it's just

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it's describing the aquatic invertebrates that live in ephemeral wetlands

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in the florida panhandle. So I don't think anybody

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but academics is really gonna want to read it and

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it's not gonna make major conservation decisions. There's not

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gonna be a lot of managers who don't, you

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know, don't have access to a to a library

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who are gonna be responding to this article. So

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in that case, you know, I saved,

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I saved my money for another, you know,

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let another article to, you know, to go

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open access because we've got one that we're gonna submit

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to plus one soon and let this one go in

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the, in the standard format. But it's a

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challenging thing because of course, I think as academics,

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our guts are wouldn't be nice. You know,

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most of the cases, the government paid for

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this research, wouldn't it be nice if it was

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just freely available to everybody. I like that.

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Well, thank you for inviting me. I'm I

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guess my name is out there. I'm scott king

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Started as an editor in 2000 of Earth and Planetary

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Science Letters, which is a journal of Elsevier's,

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It's a journal that's been around for At least 50

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years of not longer. It's got a very um

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strong reputation. It's one of the highest impact factors

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in geology or geochemistry and geophysics and Um did that

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for, I mean when I started in 2000,

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you know, I got papers by mail, you

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know, not email, you know, letters uh

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you know, envelopes with stamps, you know,

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things that you just don't see anymore. Um so

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you know, things have really changed quite a bit.

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I did that served 23 year terms as a

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senior editor. There were six of us by the

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time I quit, there were seven of us Um

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as senior editors. And when I left the journal

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in June of 20 2007, I had 150 submissions

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between January and June it had ballooned to the point

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that it was absolutely crazy. Um And so I

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I had a hiatus at that point and 2011 or

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so. Um publisher at elle severe called me up

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and they said that they were thinking of starting an

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open access journal um that was gonna be, you

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know, available through Science Direct still, but everything

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with everything in the journal would be open access.

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Um And they were targeting uh you know, a

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group of papers or type of papers which would fit

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very well. So I was one of the first

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editors to agree to join that team. Um we

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started accepting papers in 2013 um and we're still um

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still in sort of a ramp up phase of accepting

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papers. The response from the community has not been

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as good as what the sort of economic model you

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can argue about Elsevier's economics, but you know,

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it's not as good as what they had been looking

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for in terms of um things. And I talked

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with a number of my colleagues and their response generally

365
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was, You know, why should I be paying

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$2,000 to publish a paper in a startup journal that's

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not well respected, whatever when here's another journal by

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the same publisher that I can only pay$400,

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you know, even though it's not open access and

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you know, open access, I'm not sure that

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the community of people who work on the deep Earth

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are terribly worried about that, there aren't a whole

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lot of policy implications and there's you know, there's

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sort of some general interest things and people publish and

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discover and Earth and National Geographic for that. And

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I don't think the community sees open access as a

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good thing for the community because pretty much everyone who's

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doing it is at a university or a national lab

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and you know, they just go to their website

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and click and they can get all of the journals

381
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and they don't see any of the economics. Um

382
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so I think that that has been For this case

383
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uh you know, and like your experience, I

384
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just published a paper in geology six months ago or

385
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so. And you know, I had the option,

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you know, I could pay an additional$3,000

387
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on top of the whatever outrageous amount it was to

388
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pay for it and to begin with, but um

389
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to be in an open access within that journal and

390
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that that is going on as well. And I

391
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think that there, I think publishers are really grappling

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with what what to do. They seem to be

393
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trying lots of things. Let's start an open access

394
00:23:48.819 --> 00:23:52.750 A:middle L:90%
journal. Let's allow some of the papers in our

395
00:23:52.750 --> 00:23:56.009 A:middle L:90%
regular journal to be open access. I they don't

396
00:23:56.009 --> 00:24:02.799 A:middle L:90%
seem to know how to deal with it. And

397
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I talked with a good friend of mine as a

398
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editor at nature and until a couple of years ago

399
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:12.990 A:middle L:90%
they seemed to be in complete denial. It said

400
00:24:12.990 --> 00:24:15.690 A:middle L:90%
open access is a fad, it'll go away.

401
00:24:18.490 --> 00:24:21.500 A:middle L:90%
I don't know, I wouldn't want to be a

402
00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:26.500 A:middle L:90%
publisher right now. I think it's a tough area

403
00:24:26.500 --> 00:24:30.759 A:middle L:90%
to try and figure out what the future landscape is

404
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:36.059 A:middle L:90%
gonna look like and and how to be successful in

405
00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:45.549 A:middle L:90%
it. So my open access story, I'm a

406
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:49.150 A:middle L:90%
prisoner to my thematic research agenda. So that's pretty

407
00:24:49.150 --> 00:24:52.680 A:middle L:90%
much my story in a nutshell. Um and what

408
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:56.220 A:middle L:90%
I mean by that is um my area is stem

409
00:24:56.220 --> 00:25:00.619 A:middle L:90%
education, which is kind of at the intersection of

410
00:25:00.630 --> 00:25:06.190 A:middle L:90%
multiple disciplines and each discipline within them education. They

411
00:25:06.190 --> 00:25:07.539 A:middle L:90%
all have their journals that you can publish in.

412
00:25:08.299 --> 00:25:11.779 A:middle L:90%
Um, there are very, very few that do

413
00:25:11.779 --> 00:25:15.849 A:middle L:90%
have that interdisciplinary angle and that's part of their scope

414
00:25:15.859 --> 00:25:19.740 A:middle L:90%
and they accept those types of submissions. Uh the

415
00:25:19.750 --> 00:25:23.630 A:middle L:90%
most notable was one of the very early early adopters

416
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:29.380 A:middle L:90%
of open access and it had been prohibitive for for

417
00:25:29.380 --> 00:25:32.170 A:middle L:90%
quite some time because of some of the reasons that

418
00:25:32.180 --> 00:25:34.990 A:middle L:90%
the panel has already previously identified however, were in

419
00:25:34.990 --> 00:25:38.119 A:middle L:90%
education. It doesn't cost that much in education,

420
00:25:38.130 --> 00:25:41.960 A:middle L:90%
but it's uh, you know, it's a bargain

421
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:44.950 A:middle L:90%
in in terms of what you guys are talking about.

422
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:47.200 A:middle L:90%
Uh most of our journals are free to publish

423
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:52.329 A:middle L:90%
in and the vast majority are so anyways, the,

424
00:25:52.339 --> 00:25:55.569 A:middle L:90%
the premier journals and that type of research that

425
00:25:55.569 --> 00:26:00.940 A:middle L:90%
have that type of scope um are beginning and have

426
00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:03.319 A:middle L:90%
been as the trend was set um over a decade

427
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:08.839 A:middle L:90%
ago with the Journal of stem Education and, and

428
00:26:08.849 --> 00:26:12.049 A:middle L:90%
it's been an open access journal. And that was

429
00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:15.130 A:middle L:90%
kind of always read those articles just because you can

430
00:26:15.140 --> 00:26:18.450 A:middle L:90%
conduct a google search and that comes right to the

431
00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:21.150 A:middle L:90%
top and you can actually download it and it was

432
00:26:21.150 --> 00:26:25.940 A:middle L:90%
fantastic. And whereas other journals would take you through,

433
00:26:25.950 --> 00:26:29.069 A:middle L:90%
you would see the abstract and then uh you

434
00:26:29.069 --> 00:26:30.910 A:middle L:90%
know, then I would ask you for 29 95

435
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:33.170 A:middle L:90%
to bring the article, even if you were on

436
00:26:33.170 --> 00:26:36.730 A:middle L:90%
the university system, which that I'm not talking about,

437
00:26:36.740 --> 00:26:40.710 A:middle L:90%
this university system, a previous university system would,

438
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.849 A:middle L:90%
would prompt you for those fees. So those,

439
00:26:44.849 --> 00:26:47.200 A:middle L:90%
those works kind of went undiscovered to a large

440
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.950 A:middle L:90%
degree. They have a readership of four or 500

441
00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:53.750 A:middle L:90%
based off of whoever. Um, not only as

442
00:26:53.750 --> 00:26:56.440 A:middle L:90%
a member of the organization, organization, but also

443
00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:59.519 A:middle L:90%
in addition subscribes to the journal. So, you

444
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:02.809 A:middle L:90%
know, it's a really small readership. And uh,

445
00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:06.109 A:middle L:90%
so, so I published in in an open

446
00:27:06.109 --> 00:27:08.500 A:middle L:90%
access journal and then I and it sounds really silly,

447
00:27:08.509 --> 00:27:11.000 A:middle L:90%
but this is, this is the way I

448
00:27:11.009 --> 00:27:15.200 A:middle L:90%
determined its impact all of a sudden when in google

449
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:21.690 A:middle L:90%
scholar it tells citations for sites per document and the

450
00:27:21.690 --> 00:27:23.619 A:middle L:90%
ones that I have an open access journals are much,

451
00:27:23.619 --> 00:27:26.799 A:middle L:90%
much higher uh, than than those that are

452
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:30.880 A:middle L:90%
in print only in those really closed membership type journals,

453
00:27:30.890 --> 00:27:33.460 A:middle L:90%
but are still prestigious, not knocking them at

454
00:27:33.460 --> 00:27:37.329 A:middle L:90%
all. They're of high quality, high caliber journals.

455
00:27:37.339 --> 00:27:38.910 A:middle L:90%
They just aren't accessible to the masses. And

456
00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:41.660 A:middle L:90%
so, um, I've kind of took that to

457
00:27:41.660 --> 00:27:48.259 A:middle L:90%
heart more recently and that's been my primary target is

458
00:27:48.269 --> 00:27:49.880 A:middle L:90%
the way it used to work is that we go,

459
00:27:49.890 --> 00:27:52.319 A:middle L:90%
you know, Premier Journal and then work my

460
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:55.460 A:middle L:90%
way down now. It's kind of where are you

461
00:27:55.460 --> 00:27:59.079 A:middle L:90%
going to have that presence and make an impact on

462
00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:00.910 A:middle L:90%
the field because you have to think about who your

463
00:28:00.910 --> 00:28:03.690 A:middle L:90%
audience is as well in my audience. Uh,

464
00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:07.069 A:middle L:90%
half of my audience or public educators. So you

465
00:28:07.069 --> 00:28:10.819 A:middle L:90%
really have to think about what they have access to,

466
00:28:11.140 --> 00:28:12.299 A:middle L:90%
and and how how are you gonna have that

467
00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:15.559 A:middle L:90%
research to practice continuum, if it's never it's never

468
00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:18.069 A:middle L:90%
getting in their hands. Um So, so I've

469
00:28:18.069 --> 00:28:22.390 A:middle L:90%
had really positive experiences when it comes to open access,

470
00:28:22.390 --> 00:28:26.470 A:middle L:90%
and um you see you see more and more

471
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.269 A:middle L:90%
publishers going that way, and and I think it's

472
00:28:29.269 --> 00:28:33.009 A:middle L:90%
a it's a fantastic thing. It's um me me

473
00:28:33.009 --> 00:28:37.009 A:middle L:90%
as a researcher as well, I now have access

474
00:28:37.009 --> 00:28:38.269 A:middle L:90%
to things that I didn't previously have access to,

475
00:28:38.529 --> 00:28:41.539 A:middle L:90%
and I can I can just query that through a

476
00:28:41.539 --> 00:28:45.740 A:middle L:90%
search and I don't always have to go through the

477
00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:48.319 A:middle L:90%
login, because university can't describe everything, they just

478
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.250 A:middle L:90%
can't. And there's some pretty obscure journals out there

479
00:28:52.250 --> 00:28:56.130 A:middle L:90%
that was very similarly to you. I was joining,

480
00:28:56.730 --> 00:29:00.880 A:middle L:90%
Joining uh professional organizations just to get the journal.

481
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.339 A:middle L:90%
And I know I smiled when you said this

482
00:29:03.349 --> 00:29:08.059 A:middle L:90%
uh dating back to 1972. So we we have

483
00:29:08.069 --> 00:29:15.490 A:middle L:90%
this uh this professional organization that has a council within

484
00:29:15.490 --> 00:29:18.519 A:middle L:90%
the organization, if you pay your additional council membership

485
00:29:18.529 --> 00:29:21.740 A:middle L:90%
dues, you get this book and, you know,

486
00:29:21.750 --> 00:29:25.519 A:middle L:90%
everybody in my field has these books lined up

487
00:29:25.529 --> 00:29:27.630 A:middle L:90%
your order, and guess what? Now, all

488
00:29:27.630 --> 00:29:32.470 A:middle L:90%
of those are online. So, uh so my

489
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.799 A:middle L:90%
I came here with 38 boxes of books and now

490
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.220 A:middle L:90%
I've condensed those 22 small bookshelves, and I think

491
00:29:40.220 --> 00:29:41.839 A:middle L:90%
it's it's this kind of, this kind of initiative,

492
00:29:41.849 --> 00:29:45.269 A:middle L:90%
this kind of um I would call it forward

493
00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:48.640 A:middle L:90%
thinking because it's it's definitely making a notable, notable

494
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:53.730 A:middle L:90%
impact and in your and you're seeing uh people that

495
00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:56.349 A:middle L:90%
aren't necessary and, you know, in the field

496
00:29:56.349 --> 00:29:59.450 A:middle L:90%
aren't necessarily attuned or have no indirect connection to you.

497
00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:03.400 A:middle L:90%
And they're in there um identifying your work as

498
00:30:03.410 --> 00:30:07.069 A:middle L:90%
as the precursor to their work and usually uh and

499
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.740 A:middle L:90%
specifically in my in my discipline, it was you

500
00:30:11.740 --> 00:30:14.319 A:middle L:90%
had to have studied under them or you had to

501
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:15.660 A:middle L:90%
have worked with them or you had to, you

502
00:30:15.660 --> 00:30:19.190 A:middle L:90%
know, you had to have some type of interaction

503
00:30:19.190 --> 00:30:22.759 A:middle L:90%
with them on some professional level to fully be aware

504
00:30:22.769 --> 00:30:26.309 A:middle L:90%
of even what they were doing. And I think

505
00:30:26.309 --> 00:30:30.589 A:middle L:90%
it's it's definitely changed changed the field in in many

506
00:30:30.589 --> 00:30:33.470 A:middle L:90%
ways because of that. So this is this is

507
00:30:33.470 --> 00:30:37.269 A:middle L:90%
a really, really impactful thing that's occurred specific to

508
00:30:37.269 --> 00:30:40.210 A:middle L:90%
my discipline and I know it's not the same for

509
00:30:40.210 --> 00:30:41.599 A:middle L:90%
everyone, but but it has been for hours and

510
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:48.740 A:middle L:90%
just that access and other other journals that that I'm

511
00:30:48.740 --> 00:30:49.789 A:middle L:90%
referring to, that had kind of a closed readership

512
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:55.319 A:middle L:90%
or now, now they're easily accessible online in a

513
00:30:55.329 --> 00:30:56.660 A:middle L:90%
matter of fact Virginia Tech houses two of them now

514
00:30:56.980 --> 00:31:00.799 A:middle L:90%
or or has for for a while and they're easily

515
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:04.380 A:middle L:90%
accessible. There's no log in. It's just access

516
00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:07.029 A:middle L:90%
the articles and they're searchable and there, you know,

517
00:31:07.029 --> 00:31:11.190 A:middle L:90%
there's there's so many advantages to that format of

518
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:12.680 A:middle L:90%
publication as well. I could I could ramble on,

519
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:18.000 A:middle L:90%
right. I could stop, I like the

520
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.410 A:middle L:90%
revlon, but I'll stop. Thank you all for

521
00:31:22.410 --> 00:31:26.640 A:middle L:90%
your perspectives. You have any questions or comments from

522
00:31:26.650 --> 00:31:33.529 A:middle L:90%
the audience. Um, it's a comment by the

523
00:31:33.529 --> 00:31:37.589 A:middle L:90%
way, I'm Amanda french um, forgot that 0.6

524
00:31:37.589 --> 00:31:41.339 A:middle L:90%
months and I'm really running the institutional repository, the

525
00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:42.549 A:middle L:90%
tech work. So one of the primary like this

526
00:31:42.549 --> 00:31:45.759 A:middle L:90%
to store copies of maybe, you know, earlier

527
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:48.630 A:middle L:90%
drafts of versions that are in non oa articles,

528
00:31:48.630 --> 00:31:52.740 A:middle L:90%
so feel free to upload those that um, but

529
00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:56.259 A:middle L:90%
I think it was, I think you were saying,

530
00:31:56.099 --> 00:32:00.470 A:middle L:90%
um, People not necessarily wanting to read,

531
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.890 A:middle L:90%
you know, sort of really obscure academic articles on,

532
00:32:02.900 --> 00:32:07.829 A:middle L:90%
you know, uh, invertebrates, uh,

533
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:09.799 A:middle L:90%
fish in Florida and so on like that. So

534
00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:13.460 A:middle L:90%
I've actually, I've been, I haven't been writing

535
00:32:13.460 --> 00:32:15.109 A:middle L:90%
approaching a lot, but I have a doctorate in

536
00:32:15.109 --> 00:32:16.119 A:middle L:90%
English. And so back when I was doing more

537
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:20.690 A:middle L:90%
of that, um, I was early in the

538
00:32:20.690 --> 00:32:23.430 A:middle L:90%
19, in the mid-90s began putting my things online.

539
00:32:24.130 --> 00:32:25.819 A:middle L:90%
And of course we didn't have the infrastructure that

540
00:32:25.829 --> 00:32:30.190 A:middle L:90%
we do now journals institutional culture. But what I

541
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:31.309 A:middle L:90%
really noticed was that I would put up these things

542
00:32:31.309 --> 00:32:34.579 A:middle L:90%
that I thought were quite obscure about, you know,

543
00:32:34.670 --> 00:32:37.349 A:middle L:90%
your victorian poets and things and that people would

544
00:32:37.349 --> 00:32:39.000 A:middle L:90%
come out of the woodwork from around the world to

545
00:32:39.009 --> 00:32:42.500 A:middle L:90%
write me about those articles in the in fact they

546
00:32:42.500 --> 00:32:45.470 A:middle L:90%
still do like in places, you know, that

547
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:46.480 A:middle L:90%
and it's really clear a lot of the times that

548
00:32:46.490 --> 00:32:50.390 A:middle L:90%
they found them online and not in the journal and

549
00:32:50.390 --> 00:32:52.470 A:middle L:90%
a lot of times it's you know, at one

550
00:32:52.470 --> 00:32:52.859 A:middle L:90%
time I have the same stories, you know,

551
00:32:52.859 --> 00:32:55.960 A:middle L:90%
where you know, a booker, award winning author,

552
00:32:55.970 --> 00:33:00.319 A:middle L:90%
Irish author found an article of mine that was

553
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:01.839 A:middle L:90%
linked to from a Wikipedia article that I put on

554
00:33:01.849 --> 00:33:05.650 A:middle L:90%
my website and wrote me about this sort of semi

555
00:33:05.660 --> 00:33:07.750 A:middle L:90%
biographical article that I've written about obscure irish woman,

556
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:09.640 A:middle L:90%
you know what I mean? It's just you can't

557
00:33:09.650 --> 00:33:13.779 A:middle L:90%
buy that kind of like feeling that your research is

558
00:33:13.779 --> 00:33:15.269 A:middle L:90%
having an impact, you know, Wikipedia by the

559
00:33:15.269 --> 00:33:20.200 A:middle L:90%
way to very well, but It is like the

560
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:25.609 A:middle L:90%
7th most traffic but yeah, so, but it's

561
00:33:25.609 --> 00:33:28.309 A:middle L:90%
it's it's a little bit of a vicious circle because

562
00:33:28.309 --> 00:33:30.799 A:middle L:90%
I'm not sort of asserting that like if you put

563
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:31.390 A:middle L:90%
it online then people will come. But I have

564
00:33:31.390 --> 00:33:34.720 A:middle L:90%
to say that has been my experience that like totally

565
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.039 A:middle L:90%
the things that I think are completely obscure and that

566
00:33:37.049 --> 00:33:39.349 A:middle L:90%
only academics would read or understand definitely get you also

567
00:33:39.349 --> 00:33:42.460 A:middle L:90%
get kind of like some crazy people who are reading,

568
00:33:42.579 --> 00:33:46.210 A:middle L:90%
I don't understand it, do that currently in

569
00:33:46.210 --> 00:33:47.990 A:middle L:90%
the health sciences. They had this to where they're

570
00:33:47.990 --> 00:33:52.720 A:middle L:90%
writing really, really high level pieces of research about,

571
00:33:52.730 --> 00:33:53.329 A:middle L:90%
you know, the latest kind of cancer and

572
00:33:53.329 --> 00:33:57.930 A:middle L:90%
then your significant other gets that kind of cancer and

573
00:33:57.930 --> 00:34:00.910 A:middle L:90%
something really have a desire to read, you know,

574
00:34:00.910 --> 00:34:06.299 A:middle L:90%
that advanced research whether or not understand should No,

575
00:34:06.309 --> 00:34:07.050 A:middle L:90%
no, I mean I definitely am a big

576
00:34:07.059 --> 00:34:09.260 A:middle L:90%
believer in open access. I think it has,

577
00:34:09.269 --> 00:34:13.179 A:middle L:90%
you know, it's changed a lot of things and

578
00:34:13.190 --> 00:34:15.489 A:middle L:90%
if I had gotten my article open access for 200

579
00:34:15.489 --> 00:34:15.750 A:middle L:90%
more dollars, that would have been worth it to

580
00:34:15.750 --> 00:34:19.059 A:middle L:90%
me, you know, maybe$500. But it's

581
00:34:19.059 --> 00:34:20.760 A:middle L:90%
just you know, when, you know, when

582
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:23.469 A:middle L:90%
funds are limited then and given the expense of that

583
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:29.610 A:middle L:90%
journalists just it's still a weighing the options. But

584
00:34:29.619 --> 00:34:31.320 A:middle L:90%
without the Library Prevention Fund it would be a way

585
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:34.329 A:middle L:90%
worse option because, you know, as I said

586
00:34:34.329 --> 00:34:37.269 A:middle L:90%
in in the one instance, it was worth an

587
00:34:37.269 --> 00:34:38.329 A:middle L:90%
extra$1500 to me. You know, I felt

588
00:34:38.329 --> 00:34:42.820 A:middle L:90%
like that's where it needed to to go, but

589
00:34:42.829 --> 00:34:45.579 A:middle L:90%
for it to have ever been worth an extra$3000

590
00:34:45.590 --> 00:34:45.800 A:middle L:90%
to me, you know, I mean that's that's

591
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:51.489 A:middle L:90%
when it's starting to get, you know, even

592
00:34:51.489 --> 00:34:53.360 A:middle L:90%
for people that have research budgets that include money for

593
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:57.070 A:middle L:90%
publishing. That's a lot, that's a lot of

594
00:34:57.070 --> 00:35:00.579 A:middle L:90%
money. And so the so the yeah, the

595
00:35:00.579 --> 00:35:02.059 A:middle L:90%
libraries have mentioned fund has been a huge help in

596
00:35:02.059 --> 00:35:07.460 A:middle L:90%
allowing in allowing that and uh you know, how

597
00:35:07.460 --> 00:35:07.849 A:middle L:90%
you all manage to get the money. I don't

598
00:35:07.849 --> 00:35:09.599 A:middle L:90%
know. But I hope I hope it stays around

599
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.480 A:middle L:90%
because it is it's a really it's a it's a

600
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.539 A:middle L:90%
really helpful, helpful thing and you know, part

601
00:35:14.539 --> 00:35:15.300 A:middle L:90%
of this whole publishing process to them. And I

602
00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:20.400 A:middle L:90%
think that's that's a whole another thing of I know

603
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.980 A:middle L:90%
it really costs people to have editors and I mean

604
00:35:22.989 --> 00:35:24.019 A:middle L:90%
they don't pay the academic editor serie but you know

605
00:35:24.019 --> 00:35:25.389 A:middle L:90%
to have the copy editors and that you know I

606
00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:30.920 A:middle L:90%
mean I know that you know. But Yeah it

607
00:35:30.929 --> 00:35:32.369 A:middle L:90%
doesn't really cost him$3,000 to process this article.

608
00:35:32.380 --> 00:35:36.789 A:middle L:90%
You didn't know that. Let's get the demon library

609
00:35:36.789 --> 00:35:37.659 A:middle L:90%
and the provost credit, they're the ones who are

610
00:35:37.670 --> 00:35:42.010 A:middle L:90%
funding the open access a pension fund. The library

611
00:35:42.019 --> 00:35:45.489 A:middle L:90%
dean has been a proponent of it, he tends

612
00:35:45.489 --> 00:35:46.619 A:middle L:90%
to put in more than the others put in.

613
00:35:46.630 --> 00:35:52.340 A:middle L:90%
And we've never we've never run out of funds,

614
00:35:52.340 --> 00:35:54.090 A:middle L:90%
you know whenever whenever we'd spend our limit he'd say

615
00:35:54.099 --> 00:35:57.539 A:middle L:90%
well you know, one more article comes in let

616
00:35:57.539 --> 00:36:00.280 A:middle L:90%
me know and he funded it. So um we've

617
00:36:00.289 --> 00:36:05.849 A:middle L:90%
over spent our budget several times to them that we

618
00:36:05.849 --> 00:36:07.980 A:middle L:90%
have to get credit. I wanted to kind of

619
00:36:07.989 --> 00:36:09.579 A:middle L:90%
ask something similar to what Amanda was talking about.

620
00:36:09.590 --> 00:36:13.880 A:middle L:90%
And that is have you had reactions to your your

621
00:36:13.889 --> 00:36:15.300 A:middle L:90%
open access journals that you've published or have you talked

622
00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:21.789 A:middle L:90%
to your colleagues about publishing open access. Yeah.

623
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:24.730 A:middle L:90%
So in our field it's actually if you're going open

624
00:36:24.730 --> 00:36:30.489 A:middle L:90%
access it's considered a lower journal and that you went

625
00:36:30.500 --> 00:36:35.250 A:middle L:90%
open access because your research isn't significant enough to be

626
00:36:35.250 --> 00:36:37.050 A:middle L:90%
that nature science paper. So you went to open

627
00:36:37.050 --> 00:36:39.719 A:middle L:90%
access because you couldn't get it anywhere else. So

628
00:36:39.730 --> 00:36:43.980 A:middle L:90%
um it's trying to change I guess there's a lot

629
00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:46.030 A:middle L:90%
of work going on trying to change that thinking and

630
00:36:46.030 --> 00:36:49.909 A:middle L:90%
that thought process that, you know everything not a

631
00:36:49.909 --> 00:36:52.710 A:middle L:90%
nature paper, but it's still important. Um and

632
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:58.659 A:middle L:90%
still furthers the knowledge of the field. Um but

633
00:36:58.670 --> 00:37:01.820 A:middle L:90%
yet our culture tends to be that open access isn't

634
00:37:02.369 --> 00:37:06.690 A:middle L:90%
as significant and that you just couldn't get it anywhere

635
00:37:06.690 --> 00:37:10.010 A:middle L:90%
else published anywhere else. Well there's also literally thousands

636
00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:14.510 A:middle L:90%
of scam open access journals. So it doesn't mean

637
00:37:14.510 --> 00:37:16.260 A:middle L:90%
that your article is not legitimate or that you know,

638
00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:19.809 A:middle L:90%
certain journals are not legitimate journals. But it's

639
00:37:19.809 --> 00:37:22.559 A:middle L:90%
a pretty scary and strange thing that you know,

640
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:23.809 A:middle L:90%
any one of us could get a paper accepted tomorrow

641
00:37:23.809 --> 00:37:25.690 A:middle L:90%
if we paid enough money anyway. You know,

642
00:37:25.690 --> 00:37:28.260 A:middle L:90%
I mean not not in any journal but I mean

643
00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:30.329 A:middle L:90%
like there's literally thousands of these journals that are just

644
00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:37.030 A:middle L:90%
money making things. Right. Right. Right.

645
00:37:37.949 --> 00:37:44.090 A:middle L:90%
Probably once a week invitations to you know publish in

646
00:37:44.090 --> 00:37:47.889 A:middle L:90%
some international open access journal that I've never heard of

647
00:37:47.900 --> 00:37:51.429 A:middle L:90%
before. And if you look at the address,

648
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.880 A:middle L:90%
it's often a post office box in Torrance California or

649
00:37:54.880 --> 00:38:00.610 A:middle L:90%
something like that. And it's you know that I

650
00:38:00.610 --> 00:38:04.710 A:middle L:90%
think that that muddies the water. Uh and it's

651
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:07.489 A:middle L:90%
you know that that contributes to this, you know,

652
00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:13.000 A:middle L:90%
perception amongst some people that open access papers aren't.

653
00:38:13.809 --> 00:38:15.159 A:middle L:90%
Yeah, but on the other hand, mainstream

654
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:21.079 A:middle L:90%
journals are now offering this option of publishing your paper

655
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:28.150 A:middle L:90%
open access or not. And you know also many

656
00:38:28.150 --> 00:38:31.949 A:middle L:90%
of the mainstream journals are now saying after two years,

657
00:38:31.949 --> 00:38:37.150 A:middle L:90%
there's no embargo and they, what would Romeo

658
00:38:37.150 --> 00:38:40.199 A:middle L:90%
green access or something like that. And so,

659
00:38:40.210 --> 00:38:44.210 A:middle L:90%
you know, I have all of my papers that

660
00:38:44.210 --> 00:38:49.059 A:middle L:90%
I can put on research gate dot net, you

661
00:38:49.059 --> 00:38:52.559 A:middle L:90%
know, which is basically allows you to sort of

662
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.769 A:middle L:90%
set up and finds all your papers and co authors

663
00:38:55.769 --> 00:39:00.030 A:middle L:90%
and you know, they, you know, as

664
00:39:00.030 --> 00:39:04.090 A:middle L:90%
you were suggesting Amanda, you know, there's some,

665
00:39:04.099 --> 00:39:07.019 A:middle L:90%
I'm amazed at some of the papers that are,

666
00:39:07.590 --> 00:39:09.210 A:middle L:90%
You know, from 15 years ago that have

667
00:39:09.210 --> 00:39:14.409 A:middle L:90%
been lost in the literature are getting a huge number

668
00:39:14.409 --> 00:39:17.289 A:middle L:90%
of reads. whether they'll actually get a citation or

669
00:39:17.289 --> 00:39:20.230 A:middle L:90%
whether they will get used, I don't know.

670
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:23.090 A:middle L:90%
But the journal tracks how many times that particular or

671
00:39:23.090 --> 00:39:27.769 A:middle L:90%
the website tracks how many times that has been read.

672
00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:30.409 A:middle L:90%
And, you know, some of those papers

673
00:39:30.409 --> 00:39:32.969 A:middle L:90%
are getting a phenomenal number of reads. And I

674
00:39:32.969 --> 00:39:36.199 A:middle L:90%
kind of look at it and I'm like, where

675
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:42.460 A:middle L:90%
from? That's a that's actually an interesting point where

676
00:39:42.460 --> 00:39:47.239 A:middle L:90%
from part to react to your the whole uh global,

677
00:39:47.250 --> 00:39:51.929 A:middle L:90%
you know, impact as it were. Thing

678
00:39:51.940 --> 00:39:53.760 A:middle L:90%
is for spectrum. It has been interesting to see

679
00:39:53.769 --> 00:39:57.269 A:middle L:90%
when we moved over, when we move platforms.

680
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.460 A:middle L:90%
Uh we're in the process over the last couple of

681
00:40:00.460 --> 00:40:01.250 A:middle L:90%
years as we sort of got more established. It's

682
00:40:01.250 --> 00:40:05.400 A:middle L:90%
a relatively young journal, we are in the fifth

683
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:08.599 A:middle L:90%
year, sixth year of publication now. Uh and

684
00:40:08.610 --> 00:40:14.429 A:middle L:90%
we've we've received last year, we've suddenly received things

685
00:40:14.429 --> 00:40:20.639 A:middle L:90%
from Australia and Russia. Um which was really bizarre

686
00:40:20.650 --> 00:40:23.289 A:middle L:90%
seeing how this particular kind of this particular kind of

687
00:40:23.300 --> 00:40:30.210 A:middle L:90%
journal in this particular institutional environment is not naturally poised

688
00:40:30.210 --> 00:40:31.880 A:middle L:90%
to get lots of attention. But then people,

689
00:40:31.889 --> 00:40:37.349 A:middle L:90%
you know, people look for uh keywords. Uh

690
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:39.590 A:middle L:90%
and they and then articles pop up that people have

691
00:40:39.590 --> 00:40:44.119 A:middle L:90%
published in Spectra. And all of a sudden it

692
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.559 A:middle L:90%
got interesting and the recent uh this year's editors tell

693
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:51.639 A:middle L:90%
me that we have suddenly tripled the number of publications

694
00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:53.300 A:middle L:90%
or the number of submissions that we are getting just

695
00:40:53.309 --> 00:40:55.820 A:middle L:90%
because it's getting more traction. Right? And so

696
00:40:55.820 --> 00:40:59.139 A:middle L:90%
it's it's interesting to see not just the temporal but

697
00:40:59.139 --> 00:41:01.739 A:middle L:90%
also the geographical scope that this has taken on.

698
00:41:02.889 --> 00:41:07.170 A:middle L:90%
Well, I noticed that your journal has an SSN

699
00:41:07.179 --> 00:41:09.090 A:middle L:90%
which makes it a real journal among other things,

700
00:41:09.090 --> 00:41:12.349 A:middle L:90%
as well as being, you know, so it's

701
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:15.119 A:middle L:90%
it's indexed by any of the, you know,

702
00:41:15.130 --> 00:41:21.849 A:middle L:90%
databases like Yeah, it's signifying in a number of

703
00:41:21.849 --> 00:41:22.329 A:middle L:90%
ways, including being an O. J. S.

704
00:41:22.329 --> 00:41:27.130 A:middle L:90%
That it is a real not right. That's

705
00:41:27.130 --> 00:41:29.199 A:middle L:90%
it. That's the other thing is that amongst graduate

706
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:32.570 A:middle L:90%
journals, but I think this might be field specific,

707
00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:36.199 A:middle L:90%
but I think when you look at graduate journals,

708
00:41:36.210 --> 00:41:39.639 A:middle L:90%
um they are often considered lower tier, obviously,

709
00:41:39.650 --> 00:41:42.510 A:middle L:90%
oh, you can get into a real journal.

710
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:44.070 A:middle L:90%
Well, I guess you can publish in a

711
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:45.940 A:middle L:90%
graduate. Uh there are some that are very high

712
00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:50.030 A:middle L:90%
profile millennium is an example for international relations, which

713
00:41:50.030 --> 00:41:53.130 A:middle L:90%
are very well received and published high quality stuff and

714
00:41:53.139 --> 00:41:59.199 A:middle L:90%
we are getting there. Um, but uh,

715
00:41:59.210 --> 00:42:02.309 A:middle L:90%
yeah, setting these markers is really important. Uh,

716
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:05.260 A:middle L:90%
we also, for example, one of the

717
00:42:05.260 --> 00:42:07.130 A:middle L:90%
things that we do is that we publish every article

718
00:42:07.130 --> 00:42:09.619 A:middle L:90%
in two formats. Html format in pdf format.

719
00:42:09.940 --> 00:42:13.510 A:middle L:90%
And so our authors can put page numbers on their

720
00:42:13.510 --> 00:42:15.780 A:middle L:90%
CVS, which is super important. Right? It's

721
00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:17.210 A:middle L:90%
not just an html because of course, you know,

722
00:42:17.219 --> 00:42:22.039 A:middle L:90%
the assumption is that when you see a

723
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:24.130 A:middle L:90%
URL, that means it's somehow not real,

724
00:42:24.139 --> 00:42:27.920 A:middle L:90%
but if it has a page number that now we're

725
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.159 A:middle L:90%
talking, right, So, you know, it's,

726
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:30.909 A:middle L:90%
that's sort of the other thing, is that

727
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:37.750 A:middle L:90%
the way that you establish a profile as a journal

728
00:42:37.750 --> 00:42:40.139 A:middle L:90%
of this kind hosted on this platform is also important

729
00:42:44.710 --> 00:42:46.480 A:middle L:90%
question. Yes, I was uh, I was

730
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:51.710 A:middle L:90%
interested to hear about the issue of prestige in biology,

731
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:52.929 A:middle L:90%
but I was wondering if there were other fields

732
00:42:52.940 --> 00:43:00.280 A:middle L:90%
where there's um, a disconnect between the uh,

733
00:43:00.710 --> 00:43:04.679 A:middle L:90%
where you need to publish to get tenure or promotion

734
00:43:05.909 --> 00:43:09.690 A:middle L:90%
and open access um, is their biggest connect in

735
00:43:09.699 --> 00:43:13.369 A:middle L:90%
that. So I guess that's for all the panels,

736
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:17.250 A:middle L:90%
there's a disconnect except for one journal and that's

737
00:43:17.250 --> 00:43:20.420 A:middle L:90%
the one I was referring to. So um,

738
00:43:20.429 --> 00:43:22.639 A:middle L:90%
yeah, I think that it's in the, it's

739
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:25.199 A:middle L:90%
in the short list of must sees and then there's

740
00:43:25.210 --> 00:43:29.909 A:middle L:90%
the list goes on. One of the um,

741
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:31.710 A:middle L:90%
from a prestige standpoint, there's, there's not a

742
00:43:31.710 --> 00:43:34.429 A:middle L:90%
huge fall off, but there is a little bit

743
00:43:34.429 --> 00:43:37.820 A:middle L:90%
of a fall off and one of the main factors

744
00:43:37.829 --> 00:43:42.639 A:middle L:90%
and, and I can only speak specifically to where

745
00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:45.679 A:middle L:90%
I'm sitting in my advantage point is um, is

746
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:50.800 A:middle L:90%
it a for profit that backs the open access?

747
00:43:50.809 --> 00:43:52.949 A:middle L:90%
And that seems to make all the world of difference

748
00:43:52.949 --> 00:43:57.280 A:middle L:90%
in how it's perceived by the field? And,

749
00:43:57.590 --> 00:44:00.239 A:middle L:90%
and it really is, I mean, the outward

750
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.590 A:middle L:90%
perception, whether it is or not, it's a

751
00:44:01.590 --> 00:44:07.019 A:middle L:90%
moneymaker and, and so therefore there is incentive to

752
00:44:07.030 --> 00:44:09.769 A:middle L:90%
maybe accept questionable. But all that speculation, we

753
00:44:09.769 --> 00:44:14.949 A:middle L:90%
don't know that they're still index in very reputable places

754
00:44:14.949 --> 00:44:16.300 A:middle L:90%
that are, you know, all the places that

755
00:44:16.309 --> 00:44:21.000 A:middle L:90%
you would index an educational research article, that's where

756
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:24.630 A:middle L:90%
they're indexed, um as well as openly accessible uh

757
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:29.300 A:middle L:90%
in many other ways. So if you're inside Pepsico,

758
00:44:29.309 --> 00:44:31.559 A:middle L:90%
then it's going to still populate if versus if

759
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:35.670 A:middle L:90%
you just do a search criteria on any on any

760
00:44:35.670 --> 00:44:37.289 A:middle L:90%
web based search engine. So there is a,

761
00:44:37.300 --> 00:44:40.269 A:middle L:90%
there is a little bit of disconnect and except here's

762
00:44:40.269 --> 00:44:45.300 A:middle L:90%
the big difference when you have a rapidly organized impact

763
00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:46.599 A:middle L:90%
factor, which I know that's flawed in many,

764
00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:50.480 A:middle L:90%
many, many ways, but um, you can

765
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:52.590 A:middle L:90%
overcome many of those perceptions if your index in the

766
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:54.849 A:middle L:90%
right places and if you have an impact factor with

767
00:44:54.849 --> 00:45:00.360 A:middle L:90%
the right people and and then at that point,

768
00:45:00.369 --> 00:45:02.289 A:middle L:90%
yeah, there's there's no, there's no prestige issues

769
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:07.030 A:middle L:90%
and and others and other disciplines have, have kind

770
00:45:07.030 --> 00:45:08.659 A:middle L:90%
of warmed up to that within within education as well.

771
00:45:08.670 --> 00:45:13.130 A:middle L:90%
You see, you see numbers and you're,

772
00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:15.869 A:middle L:90%
you're pretty receptive to this is, wow, that's

773
00:45:15.869 --> 00:45:17.699 A:middle L:90%
a really great impact factor. So you google the

774
00:45:17.710 --> 00:45:22.880 A:middle L:90%
journal, see what's going on there. And yeah,

775
00:45:22.889 --> 00:45:24.659 A:middle L:90%
if it passes the passes the eye test of

776
00:45:24.670 --> 00:45:27.760 A:middle L:90%
its index in the right places and in fact,

777
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:30.809 A:middle L:90%
factors to the right company thing, which is ironic

778
00:45:30.820 --> 00:45:37.309 A:middle L:90%
because the impact factor is for profit. So it's,

779
00:45:37.309 --> 00:45:40.119 A:middle L:90%
it all comes full circle. But but those,

780
00:45:40.130 --> 00:45:43.869 A:middle L:90%
those have been my observations. Well, I

781
00:45:43.869 --> 00:45:46.449 A:middle L:90%
think there's a tension between what people saw as the

782
00:45:46.449 --> 00:45:50.480 A:middle L:90%
purpose of open access that leads to some of this,

783
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:51.730 A:middle L:90%
you know, that like the journal that I

784
00:45:51.730 --> 00:45:52.489 A:middle L:90%
published in, it was an old journal and it

785
00:45:52.489 --> 00:45:54.679 A:middle L:90%
had paper thing and they just decided, well,

786
00:45:54.690 --> 00:45:58.050 A:middle L:90%
we'll also let some of our articles go open access.

787
00:45:58.050 --> 00:45:59.309 A:middle L:90%
So in that kind of thing, I don't

788
00:45:59.309 --> 00:46:00.880 A:middle L:90%
think there's any prestige issue. I mean, it

789
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:02.150 A:middle L:90%
still had to get accepted to the journal, It

790
00:46:02.150 --> 00:46:04.969 A:middle L:90%
was first accepted the journal and then I got to

791
00:46:04.969 --> 00:46:07.639 A:middle L:90%
decide whether I wanted to pay the fee to go

792
00:46:07.650 --> 00:46:08.460 A:middle L:90%
open access. So I think, you know,

793
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:13.139 A:middle L:90%
in that case there's no issue, but I know

794
00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:15.099 A:middle L:90%
with plus one the first time that I reviewed for

795
00:46:15.099 --> 00:46:17.670 A:middle L:90%
them and this is one of the ones, you

796
00:46:17.670 --> 00:46:20.289 A:middle L:90%
know, this is one of the journals that's really,

797
00:46:21.110 --> 00:46:22.860 A:middle L:90%
you know, stepped out ahead and sort of

798
00:46:22.860 --> 00:46:24.079 A:middle L:90%
lead lead this idea of open access and said,

799
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:25.989 A:middle L:90%
this is really important, you know, created themselves

800
00:46:25.989 --> 00:46:30.460 A:middle L:90%
as an open access journal and you know, I

801
00:46:30.460 --> 00:46:34.900 A:middle L:90%
was sort of shocked by the reviewer instructions which were

802
00:46:34.909 --> 00:46:37.550 A:middle L:90%
do not evaluate the I forget exactly what words they

803
00:46:37.550 --> 00:46:39.289 A:middle L:90%
use, but you know, so many journals want

804
00:46:39.289 --> 00:46:42.570 A:middle L:90%
to say this is cutting edge or this is important

805
00:46:42.570 --> 00:46:45.610 A:middle L:90%
or this will transformative or you know, it's something

806
00:46:45.619 --> 00:46:47.059 A:middle L:90%
like, you know, this is really super stuff

807
00:46:47.059 --> 00:46:49.829 A:middle L:90%
that's going to change the field. And plus one

808
00:46:49.829 --> 00:46:52.949 A:middle L:90%
was very specific of saying they want, you know,

809
00:46:52.949 --> 00:46:55.369 A:middle L:90%
if somebody has done reasonable work, they wanted

810
00:46:55.369 --> 00:46:58.559 A:middle L:90%
to have a place that can get out. And

811
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:02.280 A:middle L:90%
so I'm not to say yours was not transformative enough,

812
00:47:02.289 --> 00:47:05.380 A:middle L:90%
yours was absolutely transformative. And you know,

813
00:47:05.380 --> 00:47:07.570 A:middle L:90%
favor one over the other. I'm just supposed to

814
00:47:07.570 --> 00:47:10.980 A:middle L:90%
look at your methods if you both used appropriate methods

815
00:47:10.989 --> 00:47:15.380 A:middle L:90%
to answer your question and you had the data needed,

816
00:47:15.389 --> 00:47:17.250 A:middle L:90%
then, you know, I just check all

817
00:47:17.250 --> 00:47:20.739 A:middle L:90%
those boxes and it's good and then what happens after

818
00:47:20.739 --> 00:47:22.010 A:middle L:90%
that, I don't know, you know, like

819
00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:24.159 A:middle L:90%
do they really I mean, I've just been out

820
00:47:24.170 --> 00:47:27.099 A:middle L:90%
as a reviewer, you know, do the editors

821
00:47:27.110 --> 00:47:30.909 A:middle L:90%
still say, yeah, but here's what's really more

822
00:47:30.909 --> 00:47:31.980 A:middle L:90%
transformative and we're gonna only accept one. So we're

823
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:34.679 A:middle L:90%
not gonna take years or does it just go?

824
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:36.590 A:middle L:90%
But I mean, I feel like that's how plus

825
00:47:36.590 --> 00:47:38.250 A:middle L:90%
one put itself out as they wanted a venue where

826
00:47:38.260 --> 00:47:40.139 A:middle L:90%
anybody who did good work, you didn't get left

827
00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:43.280 A:middle L:90%
out of the publishing process as long as you've invested

828
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:44.809 A:middle L:90%
in that the rest of the world may be able

829
00:47:44.809 --> 00:47:46.690 A:middle L:90%
to see it. And so that might contribute.

830
00:47:46.690 --> 00:47:50.090 A:middle L:90%
I mean plus one actually has a relatively high impact

831
00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:52.969 A:middle L:90%
factor. So you know as you said that helps

832
00:47:52.969 --> 00:47:55.179 A:middle L:90%
to counteract those negative feelings. But I mean that

833
00:47:55.190 --> 00:47:58.679 A:middle L:90%
that could contribute to people feeling like oh it's lower

834
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:00.289 A:middle L:90%
equality. If they basically said at the outset we'll

835
00:48:00.289 --> 00:48:05.360 A:middle L:90%
publish anything. But again all this stuff about transformative

836
00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:10.650 A:middle L:90%
was pretty subjective. Anyway thank you. I was

837
00:48:10.650 --> 00:48:14.559 A:middle L:90%
gonna say for journals like the new England Journal of

838
00:48:14.570 --> 00:48:17.679 A:middle L:90%
Medicine, they had the highest infant tractor last year

839
00:48:17.690 --> 00:48:21.360 A:middle L:90%
and it's all open access before it used to be

840
00:48:21.369 --> 00:48:24.730 A:middle L:90%
had copy. And this is the first american hearing

841
00:48:24.739 --> 00:48:28.730 A:middle L:90%
that open access is looked down upon. But because

842
00:48:28.730 --> 00:48:30.389 A:middle L:90%
in journals like the new England Journal of Medicine and

843
00:48:30.389 --> 00:48:34.260 A:middle L:90%
Lancet those have the highest impact factors all over.

844
00:48:34.690 --> 00:48:37.239 A:middle L:90%
They publish every week and you don't actually have to

845
00:48:37.250 --> 00:48:39.599 A:middle L:90%
pay. And their reasoning um I don't know how

846
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:44.090 A:middle L:90%
to make that money I think the advertisements or something

847
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:45.719 A:middle L:90%
and some other things. But the thing is that

848
00:48:45.730 --> 00:48:49.969 A:middle L:90%
the kind of um information they give out, they're

849
00:48:49.969 --> 00:48:52.170 A:middle L:90%
always hot body issues and everything like that. And

850
00:48:52.170 --> 00:48:54.960 A:middle L:90%
so every week there's always something in fact when you

851
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:58.530 A:middle L:90%
submit um to them, one of the things you

852
00:48:58.539 --> 00:49:00.300 A:middle L:90%
probably want to know is or get ready maybe you're

853
00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:04.070 A:middle L:90%
going to be interviewed somehow on some T. V.

854
00:49:04.070 --> 00:49:06.599 A:middle L:90%
Or something like that and you know so the

855
00:49:06.610 --> 00:49:08.380 A:middle L:90%
open access that I have seen through any J.

856
00:49:08.380 --> 00:49:13.409 A:middle L:90%
M. And Lancet what they have done is to

857
00:49:13.420 --> 00:49:19.760 A:middle L:90%
actually provide the information for everyone at no cost to

858
00:49:19.769 --> 00:49:22.159 A:middle L:90%
um to the writers at no cost to whoever wants

859
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:24.530 A:middle L:90%
to read it. Even if you just go through

860
00:49:24.530 --> 00:49:28.769 A:middle L:90%
any database one can actually get there and sometimes you

861
00:49:28.769 --> 00:49:30.190 A:middle L:90%
have to log in and you don't have to actually

862
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:34.119 A:middle L:90%
pick to actually log in to the journal side.

863
00:49:34.130 --> 00:49:37.059 A:middle L:90%
And so um they and they have maintained the high

864
00:49:37.070 --> 00:49:42.349 A:middle L:90%
impact factor for several several years now and so to

865
00:49:42.349 --> 00:49:45.559 A:middle L:90%
actually be able to publish their or even and then

866
00:49:45.570 --> 00:49:46.659 A:middle L:90%
one thing I've also noticed in those journals they can

867
00:49:46.659 --> 00:49:52.849 A:middle L:90%
have a long string of authors sometimes 10 20 usually

868
00:49:52.849 --> 00:49:55.849 A:middle L:90%
is because um they have gone into the field maybe

869
00:49:55.860 --> 00:50:00.650 A:middle L:90%
during the DVD Ebola virus disease crisis you know so

870
00:50:00.650 --> 00:50:01.409 A:middle L:90%
you've had a lot of go into the field so

871
00:50:01.409 --> 00:50:05.219 A:middle L:90%
you actually have a long stream of names that could

872
00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:07.719 A:middle L:90%
feel of half of a pig in some of the

873
00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:10.980 A:middle L:90%
hot button issues that get published. But from my

874
00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:15.679 A:middle L:90%
observation open access in those places. I mean to

875
00:50:15.690 --> 00:50:17.139 A:middle L:90%
get published there even if they're one of the long

876
00:50:17.139 --> 00:50:21.030 A:middle L:90%
list of 20 or 30 or 40 names it is

877
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:23.230 A:middle L:90%
big you know and it's not it's not something that

878
00:50:23.230 --> 00:50:28.739 A:middle L:90%
one looks down one looks down upon and so I

879
00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:30.320 A:middle L:90%
just want to prove that like that because it's still

880
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.360 A:middle L:90%
it's a science journal. But I mean to get

881
00:50:32.369 --> 00:50:36.230 A:middle L:90%
your name in one of the long list of names

882
00:50:36.230 --> 00:50:38.409 A:middle L:90%
there, you know, and sometimes actually commission um

883
00:50:38.420 --> 00:50:43.239 A:middle L:90%
authors to write something about a certain topic, you

884
00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:45.880 A:middle L:90%
know, and it's all it's all about the impact,

885
00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:49.300 A:middle L:90%
it's all sourcing to the readers. And they

886
00:50:49.309 --> 00:50:51.920 A:middle L:90%
also have committed. No, I find it that

887
00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:54.199 A:middle L:90%
the open access in this journal, sometimes I use

888
00:50:54.199 --> 00:50:57.690 A:middle L:90%
them as a data base because I know that what

889
00:50:57.690 --> 00:51:00.610 A:middle L:90%
I'm getting their information and getting there is one of

890
00:51:00.619 --> 00:51:01.420 A:middle L:90%
the most current, you know, I mean,

891
00:51:01.429 --> 00:51:04.719 A:middle L:90%
you know sometimes just going straight to google because I'm

892
00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:06.949 A:middle L:90%
like okay let me just see what they have here

893
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:08.989 A:middle L:90%
and I get the information because of all the open

894
00:51:08.989 --> 00:51:15.750 A:middle L:90%
access that they make available. That reminds me of

895
00:51:15.750 --> 00:51:16.579 A:middle L:90%
something I wanted to ask. And that is how

896
00:51:16.579 --> 00:51:19.920 A:middle L:90%
do you how do you find your open access journals?

897
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.039 A:middle L:90%
How did how did you hear about them or

898
00:51:22.050 --> 00:51:25.929 A:middle L:90%
discover them other than being invited to edit? Have

899
00:51:25.929 --> 00:51:28.739 A:middle L:90%
you had you know, how did you go about

900
00:51:28.750 --> 00:51:30.750 A:middle L:90%
deciding where to publish and find your open access journals?

901
00:51:34.659 --> 00:51:36.530 A:middle L:90%
I didn't seek out an open access journal to

902
00:51:36.530 --> 00:51:39.159 A:middle L:90%
start with. It was a journal that I met

903
00:51:39.170 --> 00:51:44.449 A:middle L:90%
the scope, identified it through more traditional means um

904
00:51:44.460 --> 00:51:50.349 A:middle L:90%
in more traditional search engine house to the library I

905
00:51:50.360 --> 00:51:54.800 A:middle L:90%
said well I can I can do that, my

906
00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:59.710 A:middle L:90%
works better than that. So so then I I

907
00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:00.820 A:middle L:90%
looked out and submit and it just happened to be

908
00:52:00.820 --> 00:52:04.519 A:middle L:90%
open access. But then after that experience, it

909
00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:07.329 A:middle L:90%
was a positive one, you know, kind of

910
00:52:07.340 --> 00:52:09.400 A:middle L:90%
kept an eye out for that. And then just

911
00:52:09.409 --> 00:52:14.920 A:middle L:90%
I found a website that had open access educational journals.

912
00:52:14.920 --> 00:52:17.230 A:middle L:90%
And it's a long, long, long list

913
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:23.539 A:middle L:90%
and 90%. I don't I don't need any that's

914
00:52:23.539 --> 00:52:25.239 A:middle L:90%
not the scope, that's not what I do,

915
00:52:25.250 --> 00:52:29.590 A:middle L:90%
but there's a few that are kind of broadened out

916
00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:34.409 A:middle L:90%
through that. So still, I'm I'm not talking

917
00:52:34.409 --> 00:52:37.329 A:middle L:90%
like three journals. I'm not talking about the Time

918
00:52:37.340 --> 00:52:39.469 A:middle L:90%
Tunnel journals, but if you rotate that, that

919
00:52:39.469 --> 00:52:44.510 A:middle L:90%
ends up being a good number of articles as an

920
00:52:44.510 --> 00:52:50.269 A:middle L:90%
outlet. Alison, How did you find this 1?

921
00:52:51.570 --> 00:52:53.070 A:middle L:90%
It's actually one of the journals that's used a

922
00:52:53.070 --> 00:52:57.619 A:middle L:90%
lot in our field, even though it's not it's

923
00:52:57.619 --> 00:53:00.829 A:middle L:90%
looked down upon, but it's used a lot.

924
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:05.730 A:middle L:90%
Um and it's because of that and it's that it's

925
00:53:05.730 --> 00:53:07.400 A:middle L:90%
not cutting edge. So a lot of time,

926
00:53:07.409 --> 00:53:12.349 A:middle L:90%
a lot of our higher tier journals, you have

927
00:53:12.349 --> 00:53:14.429 A:middle L:90%
to be on the cutting edge and it has to

928
00:53:14.429 --> 00:53:19.610 A:middle L:90%
be novel something amazing in it. And plus one

929
00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:22.150 A:middle L:90%
you can publish as long as your research method is

930
00:53:22.150 --> 00:53:27.000 A:middle L:90%
sound, you can publish their. And so um

931
00:53:27.010 --> 00:53:30.469 A:middle L:90%
it's it's actually one of the journals that you come

932
00:53:30.469 --> 00:53:34.929 A:middle L:90%
across a lot of the times because everything is not

933
00:53:34.929 --> 00:53:37.309 A:middle L:90%
a nature paper, but you've still done work and

934
00:53:37.309 --> 00:53:43.489 A:middle L:90%
you still want it published. So it was it

935
00:53:43.500 --> 00:53:45.869 A:middle L:90%
fit our criteria of what we were looking for?

936
00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:50.050 A:middle L:90%
It's really interesting that I didn't think I knew that

937
00:53:50.050 --> 00:53:54.309 A:middle L:90%
about glass. They had that's lower but maybe broader

938
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:58.769 A:middle L:90%
sort of criteria for acceptance. And it's it's just

939
00:53:58.769 --> 00:54:04.889 A:middle L:90%
interesting cause it if there's such a correlation somehow between

940
00:54:04.900 --> 00:54:07.789 A:middle L:90%
publishing openly of course increase. It's just pushing your

941
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:13.719 A:middle L:90%
data raw data which of course also leading in and

942
00:54:13.730 --> 00:54:17.949 A:middle L:90%
reproducibility of results and transparency of results. And there's,

943
00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:22.719 A:middle L:90%
you know, and there's also this whole argument

944
00:54:22.730 --> 00:54:25.320 A:middle L:90%
which is really clearly true that there's what do they

945
00:54:25.329 --> 00:54:28.400 A:middle L:90%
call it, the file drawer bias or something like

946
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:31.090 A:middle L:90%
that. Where because journals are mostly looking for exciting

947
00:54:31.090 --> 00:54:36.500 A:middle L:90%
new innovative cutting edge things. You do your experiment

948
00:54:36.510 --> 00:54:39.329 A:middle L:90%
else you don't have anything published. So you don't

949
00:54:39.329 --> 00:54:49.250 A:middle L:90%
publish that and then nobody knows exactly the same thing.

950
00:54:49.260 --> 00:54:52.480 A:middle L:90%
You know. Um so I don't know there's

951
00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:54.059 A:middle L:90%
some there's some weird like spectrum there between, you

952
00:54:54.059 --> 00:54:58.010 A:middle L:90%
know, having things be open and having them be

953
00:54:58.010 --> 00:55:05.900 A:middle L:90%
shared elsewhere. I don't know if they published that

954
00:55:05.900 --> 00:55:10.070 A:middle L:90%
kind of thing. Did this experiment? I think

955
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:15.730 A:middle L:90%
you have to have some result because we write,

956
00:55:15.730 --> 00:55:17.719 A:middle L:90%
we actually joke all the time that you know,

957
00:55:17.730 --> 00:55:21.190 A:middle L:90%
one of us is gonna start the Journal of failed

958
00:55:21.190 --> 00:55:24.769 A:middle L:90%
of tense because we find a lot lot of times

959
00:55:24.769 --> 00:55:27.460 A:middle L:90%
that you know, we're trying to do something and

960
00:55:27.460 --> 00:55:29.210 A:middle L:90%
then we'll talk to a collaborator and they're like,

961
00:55:29.219 --> 00:55:30.500 A:middle L:90%
yeah, we did that. We were like,

962
00:55:30.510 --> 00:56:00.849 A:middle L:90%
oh right. Actually cares about uh why you founded

963
00:56:00.849 --> 00:56:07.510 A:middle L:90%
the journal copywriters. Question about how did you find

964
00:56:07.510 --> 00:56:08.639 A:middle L:90%
your open access journal? Why did you found a

965
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:14.860 A:middle L:90%
journal with that as a for two reasons? Um

966
00:56:15.369 --> 00:56:19.309 A:middle L:90%
the on the one hand, we we wanted to

967
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:22.519 A:middle L:90%
emphasize that the works that are published in spectra are

968
00:56:22.530 --> 00:56:27.869 A:middle L:90%
at once finished pieces that are that are very much

969
00:56:27.869 --> 00:56:34.239 A:middle L:90%
publishable. Um and yet that they express something that

970
00:56:34.250 --> 00:56:37.960 A:middle L:90%
is that is part of a bigger conversation. Uh

971
00:56:37.969 --> 00:56:40.230 A:middle L:90%
you know, I would assume that the disciplinary equivalent

972
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:45.579 A:middle L:90%
of an experiment is an ongoing conversation. Right?

973
00:56:45.590 --> 00:56:49.000 A:middle L:90%
And so we are we are emphasizing that uh the

974
00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:52.510 A:middle L:90%
other the other reason why we're doing this is uh

975
00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:57.079 A:middle L:90%
that as a graduate journal, we're trying to uh

976
00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:00.920 A:middle L:90%
we're trying to show one of the, one of

977
00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:02.360 A:middle L:90%
the purposes. I think one of the ways I've

978
00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:07.300 A:middle L:90%
always understood graduate journals in uh my fields in this

979
00:57:07.300 --> 00:57:10.599 A:middle L:90%
case. So Political science, economics, International Relations,

980
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:15.610 A:middle L:90%
all that stuff um is to show that there

981
00:57:15.610 --> 00:57:19.090 A:middle L:90%
are conversations going on between graduate students, amongst graduate

982
00:57:19.090 --> 00:57:21.539 A:middle L:90%
students, Between graduate students and faculty between faculty and

983
00:57:21.539 --> 00:57:24.820 A:middle L:90%
graduate students that are often cutting edge, often daring,

984
00:57:24.829 --> 00:57:28.789 A:middle L:90%
often interdisciplinary, often do not fit into any

985
00:57:28.789 --> 00:57:34.579 A:middle L:90%
of the established criteria um and which rightfully ought to

986
00:57:34.579 --> 00:57:37.000 A:middle L:90%
have a place in the journals that are more quote

987
00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:40.000 A:middle L:90%
unquote established. I swore I would not do air

988
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:44.960 A:middle L:90%
quotes. I'm sorry that are that are more quote

989
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:49.960 A:middle L:90%
unquote established. Um but where it is often more

990
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:52.860 A:middle L:90%
difficult to get in for a variety of reasons.

991
00:57:52.869 --> 00:58:00.070 A:middle L:90%
And so offering authors the ability to maintain their copyright

992
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:00.750 A:middle L:90%
when we were in the Wordpress platform, that was

993
00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:05.030 A:middle L:90%
worded a little differently. Um but the authors to

994
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:07.840 A:middle L:90%
to hold onto that allows them to keep working on

995
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:12.139 A:middle L:90%
this stuff, uh and to to prepare it for

996
00:58:12.139 --> 00:58:15.159 A:middle L:90%
other venues, prepared for better, better, whatever

997
00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:17.099 A:middle L:90%
that means. Venues venues with high impact factor venues

998
00:58:17.099 --> 00:58:20.500 A:middle L:90%
with more institutional recognition, that kind of thing,

999
00:58:20.510 --> 00:58:22.760 A:middle L:90%
while simultaneously having something out there that contributes to an

1000
00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:25.460 A:middle L:90%
ongoing conversation on the one hand, and allows them

1001
00:58:25.469 --> 00:58:30.269 A:middle L:90%
to frankly put it on their cV. Um,

1002
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:30.860 A:middle L:90%
so, you know, it's it seems to me

1003
00:58:30.860 --> 00:58:36.329 A:middle L:90%
that that gives a variety of incentives and it has

1004
00:58:36.340 --> 00:58:38.670 A:middle L:90%
it has been fairly successful, um as sort of

1005
00:58:38.670 --> 00:58:43.050 A:middle L:90%
a point when I when I was editor and talk

1006
00:58:43.050 --> 00:58:46.760 A:middle L:90%
to people at conferences about spectrum as a publication platform,

1007
00:58:46.809 --> 00:58:49.610 A:middle L:90%
I would mention that, and you could sort

1008
00:58:49.610 --> 00:58:52.010 A:middle L:90%
of see people's eyes getting, you know, lighting

1009
00:58:52.010 --> 00:58:54.320 A:middle L:90%
up, because there's there's it's not, you know,

1010
00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:57.280 A:middle L:90%
it's published and it's done right. It's it's

1011
00:58:57.280 --> 00:58:59.489 A:middle L:90%
published and it's sort of, it's an ongoing thing

1012
00:58:59.500 --> 00:59:01.010 A:middle L:90%
and you can continue doing that, you know,

1013
00:59:01.010 --> 00:59:05.110 A:middle L:90%
you don't have to give up copyright, you don't

1014
00:59:05.110 --> 00:59:07.650 A:middle L:90%
have to sign this particular formulation over to a journal

1015
00:59:07.650 --> 00:59:12.710 A:middle L:90%
that suddenly, miraculously, by the virtues of property

1016
00:59:12.710 --> 00:59:15.159 A:middle L:90%
rights. Now, suddenly owns your thought, in

1017
00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:20.170 A:middle L:90%
this precise incarnation of your thought. Um and then

1018
00:59:20.170 --> 00:59:21.809 A:middle L:90%
you have to ask the journal, which I always

1019
00:59:21.809 --> 00:59:22.829 A:middle L:90%
found rather bizarre. I have to ask the journal

1020
00:59:22.829 --> 00:59:24.500 A:middle L:90%
to then publish that stuff. And you, you

1021
00:59:24.500 --> 00:59:27.250 A:middle L:90%
know, turn your dissertation into a book or something

1022
00:59:27.250 --> 00:59:29.650 A:middle L:90%
like that, right? That seemed absurd to me.

1023
00:59:29.659 --> 00:59:30.679 A:middle L:90%
And so a number of people who are publishing

1024
00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:34.409 A:middle L:90%
in spectra, faculty and graduate students alike, we've

1025
00:59:34.420 --> 00:59:36.769 A:middle L:90%
had sort of an expansion of that base from,

1026
00:59:36.780 --> 00:59:39.340 A:middle L:90%
from graduate students. Two faculty have expressed that that

1027
00:59:39.340 --> 00:59:43.420 A:middle L:90%
is one of the things that attracts them to publish

1028
00:59:43.420 --> 00:59:45.489 A:middle L:90%
their, and it's not interestingly enough, that has

1029
00:59:45.489 --> 00:59:51.010 A:middle L:90%
not led authors too. You know, submit what

1030
00:59:51.010 --> 00:59:53.159 A:middle L:90%
you would expect of, you know, harmonists economically,

1031
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:58.170 A:middle L:90%
right, rational utility, maximizing individuals, uh,

1032
00:59:58.179 --> 01:00:00.489 A:middle L:90%
to just sort of send us these bizarre working

1033
01:00:00.489 --> 01:00:01.889 A:middle L:90%
paper kind of things that are that would never pass

1034
01:00:01.889 --> 01:00:05.619 A:middle L:90%
our peer review anyway, because we do have peer

1035
01:00:05.619 --> 01:00:08.360 A:middle L:90%
review. Uh, and, you know, it

1036
01:00:08.360 --> 01:00:12.110 A:middle L:90%
has not led to a diminishing of quality either.

1037
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:17.380 A:middle L:90%
Like it's it works, it's good stuff. Any

1038
01:00:17.380 --> 01:00:22.730 A:middle L:90%
last comments so hard, anything else you'd like to

1039
01:00:22.730 --> 01:00:29.119 A:middle L:90%
say? Rational choice theory is not valid? I

1040
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:32.110 A:middle L:90%
agree. Okay, well, thank you all so

1041
01:00:32.110 --> 01:00:35.429 A:middle L:90%
much for coming. It was a great conversation.

1042
01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:37.869 A:middle L:90%
Thank you. Thank you