WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:10.880 [Sydney Thorpe] I'm the assistant director of academic affairs on the Student Government Association 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:15.440 and tonight I'll be the moderator for 00:00:15.440 --> 00:00:21.119 the event "You want me to pay what? A student perspective on learning costs" 00:00:21.119 --> 00:00:26.720 First we're going to go through the panel and do introductions. 00:00:26.720 --> 00:00:30.240 Good evening, I'm Steve Skripak. I'm a faculty member in the department of 00:00:30.240 --> 00:00:33.760 management in the college of business. 00:00:34.239 --> 00:00:41.040 Hi, I'm Cara Boim. I'm a sophomore in human development and psychology 00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:46.320 and I used to be a neuroscience major. Hi, I'm Sarah Umbarger-Wells. I'm 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:48.960 special research faculty here at the university and I'm also 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:53.360 a PhD student in the higher education program. 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:58.640 Hi, I'm Kimberly Kading and I'm a freshman in university studies. 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:04.000 I'm J.T. Addair and I'm a sophomore in university studies as well. 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:07.680 Hi, I'm Anita Walz. I'm the open education, copyright, 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:13.840 and scholarly communication librarian here at the university libraries. 00:01:14.080 --> 00:01:17.280 I would like to thank all the panel members for being here tonight and being 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:21.280 able to share their perspectives. So the purpose of this event is to 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:24.080 become more aware of the struggles that students face 00:01:24.080 --> 00:01:27.840 in paying for educational materials, allowing for education 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.759 of the resources available, and also understanding the process 00:01:31.759 --> 00:01:36.159 the professors go through in order to implement open textbook resources 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:41.840 and their experiences in the matter. 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:47.600 And Anita will give us a brief introduction to open education. 00:01:54.600 --> 00:01:58.479 Thank you very much for inviting me here tonight. 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:06.079 I want to give a bit of background on open education because 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:09.920 when I talk to people they think a lot of different things 00:02:09.920 --> 00:02:13.440 about what open education is. A lot of people think 00:02:13.440 --> 00:02:16.560 oh it means you have no admissions requirements, 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:19.920 it means you have free textbooks, it means you 00:02:19.920 --> 00:02:24.000 are mainstreaming persons with disabilities in your curriculum, 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:29.680 it's all about MOOCs, and while some of these things might be correct, 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:33.040 open education is a lot more than 00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:37.760 each of these things. It's really a movement, a philosophy, and 00:02:37.760 --> 00:02:42.720 a set of practices that allow people to do what they need 00:02:42.720 --> 00:02:53.920 to do to grow in their learning practices. Really it's about 00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:58.560 sharing, and it's about sharing in three different ways: 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:02.480 open access which 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:07.120 is very popular because it means that something 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:12.800 is free you can get to it free you can use it you can read it no 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.400 problems everybody's happy 00:03:16.720 --> 00:03:20.959 open educational resources these are not only free but they have a license that 00:03:20.959 --> 00:03:27.040 allows you to adapt and to share them and i should mention that some of these 00:03:27.040 --> 00:03:31.680 things are more exciting for students and some of them are more exciting for 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:35.040 faculty the fact that you can adapt resources 00:03:35.040 --> 00:03:41.280 is very exciting um to some faculty but the one that is 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.840 probably more exciting we'll get to is the third one open 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:48.480 pedagogy some some examples of open educational 00:03:48.480 --> 00:03:53.920 resources how many of you have heard of this word before okay 00:03:53.920 --> 00:03:57.360 so open educational resources are a response to 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:01.920 copyright in a certain degree where you can't copy you can't share you can't 00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:06.239 change something versus materials that have what we call 00:04:06.239 --> 00:04:10.799 5r permissions where you can reuse revise remix 00:04:10.799 --> 00:04:16.720 redistribute retain these works most often 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:20.560 these are described with creative commons licenses 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:26.080 that range from allowing 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:30.240 pretty broad use all with attribution down to 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:37.360 allowing use but only for non-commercial purposes and sharing future editions 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:43.280 with the same license some examples that uh the university 00:04:43.280 --> 00:04:46.560 library has worked on with faculty around the 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.240 university include fundamentals of business which um steve 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:55.440 spreepak will talk a bit about today there's a video series out of that 00:04:55.440 --> 00:04:59.600 med that just came out this year and we have a third book that's in the works 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:03.840 right now but the part that i think is most 00:05:03.840 --> 00:05:07.280 compelling that drives open education really is 00:05:07.280 --> 00:05:10.880 pedagogy it's what teachers want to do in their 00:05:10.880 --> 00:05:17.280 classrooms building assignments work for students 00:05:17.280 --> 00:05:22.240 that is meaningful that's purposeful that's valuable in the real world 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:29.039 that enables students to explore and to to learn um at their 00:05:29.039 --> 00:05:33.680 things that they are that they are interested in 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:40.960 um one of the ways that this is described is uh an intentional 00:05:40.960 --> 00:05:45.759 design of creative ways for students work to be 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:50.000 impactful and relevant a few examples of this 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.039 that you may have experienced at virginia tech 00:05:53.039 --> 00:05:57.199 include some of the work in the world regions course 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:02.720 where students are impersonating 00:06:03.440 --> 00:06:08.240 public figures and following their lives and tweeting as if they were them 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:12.720 um others include faculty who are teaching 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:16.080 with something like wikipedia where students are building 00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:22.880 and creating assignments and creating real worlds materials that 00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:27.039 that add value to the rest of the world 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:34.080 without um further explanation uh just like to say the operative 00:06:34.080 --> 00:06:37.120 question really is how can i be more open 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.880 and so i just want to leave you with this idea um 00:06:40.880 --> 00:06:44.720 open education is not just free freely available 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:52.240 things um but it is based on a series of values of sharing of 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.440 collaborating getting feedback from other people 00:06:55.440 --> 00:06:59.919 incorporating new ideas using open licenses that we've looked at 00:06:59.919 --> 00:07:03.199 giving credit and then focusing on students or learners 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:11.280 and their needs so without further delay that is 00:07:11.280 --> 00:07:17.840 open education 00:07:24.080 --> 00:07:27.120 and now we will transition into questions for 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:31.199 all of the panel members so this is open to anyone 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:33.440 um 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:39.440 how much did you spend on required learning resources 00:07:39.440 --> 00:07:48.400 in college i can start with that and say it was a 00:07:48.400 --> 00:07:52.639 long time ago and i remember that a book that was 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:59.680 forty dollars was really expensive 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.199 yeah i i don't remember a lot i just remember there were there were some 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.759 books that were i thought were kind of pricey 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:13.759 um but i know it's different now yes i've spent um i think last year or this 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:17.759 year um i think around 1200 on books 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:24.479 um for everything so so far i've probably spent over three 00:08:24.479 --> 00:08:29.360 hundred on just books and that doesn't include 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:35.360 like access codes or other outside sources that they use 00:08:35.599 --> 00:08:39.599 i think i've spent about like 500 including access 00:08:39.599 --> 00:08:45.600 and stuff um i've tried to rent versus buy which can sometimes be 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:48.240 good but other times i when i buy it i sell it back to 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:53.200 someone else and make money back but usually that's hard because some of the 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:55.440 books you can't sell them without the access 00:08:55.440 --> 00:09:00.720 folks these people may be from the class and a chemistry textbook alone for 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:04.880 general chemistry is like 250. 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:09.440 as a graduate student in my department it's a little bit different most of our 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.279 textbooks are um far less expensive than what 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:17.360 undergraduates it seems are paying um and most of the books that i purchase 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:22.240 are things i'm going to use further in my my career as an educator 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:27.760 and so for me there are things that i am going to continue to to rely on 00:09:27.760 --> 00:09:30.800 but yet it seems that the materials that i need are 00:09:30.800 --> 00:09:35.120 a little easier to come by and probably a little less expensive than 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:39.040 than what undergrads are paying so 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:43.680 so it was so long ago that i went to college that i don't even think the 00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:47.600 number is relevant but everything now just seems 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:54.320 so expensive um what did you all generally think when 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:59.600 you were paying for your textbooks was there any semester that was 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:05.839 a lot more than another or less 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:12.320 so i'm on limited funds and my first thought was why are they so 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:16.240 expensive because it's a huge university you would 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.160 figure that the book prices would be lower but 00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:24.800 instead when i first bought books it ended up being like 422 dollars 00:10:24.800 --> 00:10:28.079 and i returned all of them and bought them 00:10:28.079 --> 00:10:32.160 on amazon book holders any place i could find it cheaper 00:10:32.160 --> 00:10:38.640 because the money that i have i need to like save for other things 00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:42.800 because classes will want you to buy like top hat 00:10:42.800 --> 00:10:49.920 and just other things and access codes are beyond ridiculous 00:10:49.920 --> 00:10:53.440 because some classes it's like yeah i buy this book but 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:58.240 this may or not like may or may not be helpful to your learning 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:01.839 and i just can't afford that 00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:08.079 yeah with um the access codes um the university has canvas so i don't 00:11:08.079 --> 00:11:12.800 really see like why it's um necessary to buy access codes to 00:11:12.800 --> 00:11:16.560 other online websites when we have canvas as a university for free 00:11:16.560 --> 00:11:20.480 even though it's included like with tuition and room and board 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:23.200 um so 00:11:24.560 --> 00:11:29.279 yeah i definitely feel the same about access foods and um 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:33.760 i also see a lot of people i work at the university bookstore 00:11:33.760 --> 00:11:37.839 and so i see a lot of people come in buy like 500 00:11:37.839 --> 00:11:40.880 worth of books but i know they can get fined find 00:11:40.880 --> 00:11:45.360 through used or cheaper but like the bookstore has unlimited used books 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:49.360 um most books are sold in like a package deal like a chemistry book so you can't 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:54.560 buy just the access code or something um which makes it more expensive even 00:11:54.560 --> 00:11:59.839 though you only need one of them so i do know that when i was an 00:11:59.839 --> 00:12:03.200 undergrad um being a low income first generation 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.760 student i was very mindful of how much books 00:12:05.760 --> 00:12:10.560 cost and so that determined in some way my 00:12:10.560 --> 00:12:15.360 choice of major i didn't have parents to ask if that was a wise choice should i 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:20.720 be choosing my future based on whether i can afford these books today or not or 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:25.440 taking on another job just to buy books so i made the choice to change majors 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.200 something that was a little more affordable 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:32.639 and books happened to be one of the factors in that decision there were 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:36.079 times that i did drop classes when i went to the bookstore and bought 00:12:36.079 --> 00:12:39.200 the books or looked to see how much the books were i was like i don't need this 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:41.920 class i can pick one that's cheaper and i 00:12:41.920 --> 00:12:45.040 would go to the bookstore and look and see 00:12:45.040 --> 00:12:48.720 the classes that maybe only had one book or a few books that were very 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.760 inexpensive or ones i knew i could get at the library because i worked at the 00:12:51.760 --> 00:12:54.959 library i could check those books out and so 00:12:54.959 --> 00:12:58.000 those sometimes would be the classes i would enroll in 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.560 um especially it was a class that i didn't have to take to complete a major 00:13:02.560 --> 00:13:08.320 so a lot of bad choices based on affordability 00:13:13.920 --> 00:13:18.800 how do you believe these educational 00:13:18.839 --> 00:13:21.839 materials 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:25.279 well so far 00:13:25.920 --> 00:13:30.160 i didn't buy a physical book for one of my classes because 00:13:30.160 --> 00:13:35.680 it would have pushed my budget so i just managed to get the online version but i 00:13:35.680 --> 00:13:41.120 had to have it because she grades on the learning curves but as for 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:47.199 my other class i didn't buy that access code i bought the used book 00:13:47.199 --> 00:13:52.639 online and so far everything's been fine so 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.880 um if they're not doing anything with the access codes i don't see why it's 00:13:56.880 --> 00:14:03.199 necessary to buy a brand new book when i can go buy it for cheaper 00:14:03.199 --> 00:14:06.160 it just seems a bit 00:14:14.959 --> 00:14:21.519 online pointless any other materials for the same information 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.800 i know for the principles of biology class they put up 00:14:26.800 --> 00:14:34.480 powerpoints on earth videos um on canvas and i bought the textbook 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:38.160 never touched it just used the powerpoints and 00:14:38.160 --> 00:14:45.360 bought like a b plus a ghost semesters so i didn't need to have it 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:50.079 and for my personal finance class we have um online recorded lectures 00:14:50.079 --> 00:14:53.600 um and even at the beginning of the semester he said that we didn't have to 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:57.760 buy the book but it would be good like beneficial if we did i couldn't 00:14:57.760 --> 00:15:01.279 afford it but the recorded lectures like really helped 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:05.920 me to learn those uh that and he posts the 00:15:05.920 --> 00:15:11.680 powerpoints on canvas so it's really really simple like with 00:15:11.680 --> 00:15:15.199 getting access to the information 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:25.199 for other educational materials other than textbooks 00:15:25.199 --> 00:15:29.440 such as an access code um how much would you say that these 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:33.040 materials are working 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:40.160 i understand that it like i guess the money goes to the people who 00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:44.959 wrote the book but to me it is 00:15:44.959 --> 00:15:50.480 really unnecessary and when you're like buying the book that should go to them 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:55.199 but where it gets to the point where i can't afford it and 00:15:55.199 --> 00:16:00.079 like probably most of the virginia tech population can't 00:16:00.079 --> 00:16:03.040 because like everyone that i talked to at the beginning of the year the first 00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:07.440 thing they said was the books are so expensive here and i 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.759 was like i agree it is insane so then they're like 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.600 listing all these places alternate ways to buy books that are 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.399 cheaper which is ironic because you would figure 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:23.440 that the library or the bookstore would want people to 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:27.680 buy their books instead but when people are going out they're losing money that 00:16:27.680 --> 00:16:29.920 way 00:16:30.959 --> 00:16:36.639 i have a student as the the faculty advisor and also i guess a 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:39.519 member i'm not really a fan of the advisor i guess i'm just a 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:45.759 helper and i don't know what i am anyway um so one of the uh 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.800 1g at bt which is first generation virginia tech students 00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:53.440 told me that um in the the major that this particular student 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:58.160 is in access codes are a big deal um it's something that's that 00:16:58.160 --> 00:17:01.600 they have to have for this particular major and this 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:05.360 student informed me that their financial aid 00:17:05.360 --> 00:17:09.679 package was not set up 00:17:09.679 --> 00:17:16.799 to provide enough funding to cover the addition uh the cost 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:23.280 that the access code is so you know that's a concern of mine 00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:26.319 are we you know is there proper alignment 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.400 in all different areas of campus to help students afford 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:34.640 things like access codes is the financial aid office aware that students 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.919 in certain majors have this added expense and so therefore 00:17:37.919 --> 00:17:42.400 their financial aid um needs to reflect that um 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:46.480 you know is this is the are the common conversations taking place 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:50.720 um so that everyone is aware of what the the cost really is for students 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:55.440 as they're trying to navigate their educational system 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.200 i know a lot of students have to buy an eye clicker or 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:03.440 repo which is basically what teachers use to take attendance 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.720 um to make sure you're there learning in their class 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:10.080 and it ends up being a bunch of bs and you just buy like 00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:13.520 the i clicker itself is like 50 and basically you're answering multiple 00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:18.240 choice questions with it um and you do like two or three per 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.160 class and then they drop some but like it's like just a small participation 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:25.919 grade and they make them pay like fifty dollars for the remote and then 00:18:25.919 --> 00:18:30.080 you have to pay an additional expense every semester you use it 00:18:30.080 --> 00:18:35.520 and just like it seems so unnecessary because if they're going to like it 00:18:35.520 --> 00:18:38.640 should be like a common thing they should be able to show up to class 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.559 by themselves they're not showing up to class then that's 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:47.120 that shouldn't be like an expense um for my freshman year 00:18:47.120 --> 00:18:52.240 i actually um i was working two jobs but it was still yet like really expensive 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:55.600 just for tuition and everything because i am a first generation college student 00:18:55.600 --> 00:18:58.400 and i'm actually academic or financially 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:02.640 independent so i couldn't afford an iclicker and um 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:06.320 that took i think it was maybe 15 of my grade 00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:10.080 um and i did fail the class or i withdrew something like that 00:19:10.080 --> 00:19:14.320 but um that definitely definitely played a large role like 00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:19.280 in me passing that class um and i even came in contact with like the instructor 00:19:19.280 --> 00:19:21.679 and he didn't really feel any like not 00:19:21.679 --> 00:19:24.799 necessarily pity but he wasn't like really understanding 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:28.799 that i really couldn't afford fifty dollars for an iclicker and there's an 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.799 app for it on the phone and um i think it's like maybe fifteen dollars or 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.440 something but for some reason we weren't allowed to 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:41.679 like use that um so i found that a struggle freshman year 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:46.720 do you all have any particular experiences with trying to find 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:56.240 cheaper textbooks i would rather like buy a used textbook 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.679 that's been used probably like 10 20 times 00:19:59.679 --> 00:20:07.200 highlighted written in as long as i can read the words and like all my pages are 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.799 there i will take it over a new book 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:18.400 any day because um like they said i'm a first generation 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.640 i'm here on a scholarship the scholarship pays for room board and 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:27.120 tuition not books and uh 00:20:27.120 --> 00:20:30.240 there are other things that like play into it i had to get 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:35.600 like a small loan and like books are expensive but nobody actually 00:20:35.600 --> 00:20:40.720 um uh pays attention to the other expenses 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:43.840 because that loan goes towards like personal 00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:49.919 care um laptops if you have nothing it's very difficult 00:20:49.919 --> 00:20:54.400 to buy all these unnecessary things 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:58.960 i know sometimes i will when i get the book list for my class 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.000 i'll look and see if i can find an addition that's 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.880 um you know the previous year or maybe a couple years back 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:10.559 so that i can you know get a book that's less expensive and generally 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:14.880 a new addition um if it's a couple of years old 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:21.360 it's lots lots less expensive than the new edition of so i'll do that and 00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:25.280 just kind of roll the dice and you know probably not going to miss too 00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:28.799 much by getting an older edition of a book 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:33.280 i'll also i've done this in the past um i've gotten books for interlibrary 00:21:33.280 --> 00:21:36.720 loan i used to work at the library so i know lots of different ins and outs 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:40.080 and i would get my books for interlibrary loan 00:21:40.080 --> 00:21:43.280 and keep them for as long as they would let me and then 00:21:43.280 --> 00:21:47.200 return them and before i return them request them from another school 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:51.520 and so i would go semesters as an undergrad and even as a 00:21:51.520 --> 00:21:55.360 master's student borrowing books through interlibrary loan 00:21:55.360 --> 00:21:58.720 so i wouldn't have to pay especially if it was a book that i knew probably was 00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:01.280 not ever going to revisit that material again 00:22:01.280 --> 00:22:05.679 um and if i found i need the book then maybe buy it or something but 00:22:05.679 --> 00:22:09.120 um yeah i used your library loan for years 00:22:09.120 --> 00:22:16.000 to do any faculty member i actually decided one semester to specify 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:20.559 in the syllabus in addition that was out of date so that students could go get it 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:24.480 used because the changes from the current edition to 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:28.320 previous edition tiny little things that really didn't 00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:31.520 impact the course so i said all right they just use one 00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:36.640 edition over unfortunately the bookstore 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:41.760 zest for scholarship money uh that's i think that's what the purpose is still 00:22:41.760 --> 00:22:46.720 price the book at 10 and 15 even though you could find it on 00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:49.600 half.com 00:22:49.679 --> 00:22:54.320 anywhere from 18 to 40 bucks yeah and so i actually left the class 00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:57.200 and i told the students if you bought the book at the bookstore to take it 00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.360 back here's the cheaper source and buy it 00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:02.880 here because this is outrageous but they're 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.919 what they're charging for this book and so even 00:23:05.919 --> 00:23:10.000 trying to intentionally use an older book 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.799 didn't because there's there's some parents who are just going to send their 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:15.919 kids to the bookstore yeah this is you know what you're going 00:23:15.919 --> 00:23:18.400 to do is that i know you're doing the right thing 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:23.679 and and those people get suffered into the higher person 00:23:23.919 --> 00:23:30.080 yeah and i know i just didn't make any friends at the bookstore 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:36.159 yeah i'm pretty sure their whole business is just funding scholarships 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.600 so everything goes back to the school or to the students that work there 00:23:39.600 --> 00:23:43.120 so so we're not priced at a reasonable purpose yeah 00:23:43.120 --> 00:23:49.840 um i've personally tried buying used books or renting books to 00:23:49.840 --> 00:23:53.440 set can be significantly cheaper 00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:58.400 and one particular instance i bought the biology book 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:02.880 used from another student and then i was planning on selling it back but at the 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:07.279 end of the semester they have people come and they buy back books at 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:09.919 the bookstore and so i out of curiosity i went and asked them 00:24:09.919 --> 00:24:15.200 how much my book would be worth um if i sold it back to them 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:19.200 and they were like yeah this would be worth like two dollars because it's an 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.159 old edition and they were like the materials 00:24:22.159 --> 00:24:26.320 completely changed and i just was like it's biology 00:24:26.320 --> 00:24:31.600 it's a science it doesn't isn't like rapidly evolving or anything 00:24:31.600 --> 00:24:34.880 so i don't understand why it was worth less than it was 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.679 i'm sure there was like minuscule differences because in the biology 00:24:37.679 --> 00:24:40.799 classes they tell you you can have the new edition the old one 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:45.200 or you can use this online version which so 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:49.679 i don't think it was realistic 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:56.720 uh a few of you have mentioned having to drop or withdraw from horses 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.559 do if any of you have any other 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:13.520 i had a kid in my class sorry student in my class about four years ago 00:25:13.520 --> 00:25:16.480 he told me he was going to have to drop the class because he couldn't afford the 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:18.799 books 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:22.480 he said i'm going to the food pantry to eat 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.600 i can't afford the book 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.240 there's just just a part of my career again 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.480 as many as i want from the publisher but i'm 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:39.600 looking in the eyes i'm gonna have to drop the class because i can't before 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:48.559 um i had a friend who was doing i don't know class it was a class where 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.080 you had to buy the book and had to buy an additional um online 00:25:52.080 --> 00:25:55.279 software um that was a part of the class it 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:59.279 wasn't like pre-polling or anything um and she found that out and she had 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:02.159 already ordered the book from check and so she returned the book 00:26:02.159 --> 00:26:06.480 and dropped the class because she didn't want to pay the additional funds to see 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.559 textbook itself it's like 70 to rent and then the 00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:14.320 online software was like eighty dollars 00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:27.760 do you believe that some of those i think they are um and i know that we 00:26:27.760 --> 00:26:31.200 you know have a perception that students might be able to afford things 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:35.360 um and maybe they are affording them but my question always is 00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:38.400 are they affording them with the money they have in their pocket today 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:41.360 and is that money coming from student loans which means they're going to be 00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:44.000 paying exponentially more for the books that 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.760 they need for these classes um in the future if you know it's taking 00:26:47.760 --> 00:26:50.720 them 15 10 years whatever to pay a student loan 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:55.039 back um yes they are you know they're they're 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:58.720 paying much much more and they already expensive costs of 00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:06.320 books so that's a problem 00:27:06.320 --> 00:27:09.600 it has been said that many students here at virginia tech 00:27:09.600 --> 00:27:13.679 are privileged as there is a state council 00:27:13.679 --> 00:27:20.640 and some students drive luxury vehicles so textbook and homework access point is 00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:23.679 your concern do you believe that this is an accurate 00:27:23.679 --> 00:27:29.039 presumption i don't mean to be rude but sometimes i 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:33.440 can't stand that um virginia tech is in the appalachian 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:38.399 region that speaks for a lot um 00:27:38.399 --> 00:27:45.919 like i said i am in a scholarship uh that is a heavenly program but 00:27:45.919 --> 00:27:51.039 the first meeting we had the one thing that everybody was talking about 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:54.720 was how am i gonna be like how am i gonna buy books 00:27:54.720 --> 00:28:00.399 they know i'm here on nothing um i don't know if they could get a loan or 00:28:00.399 --> 00:28:03.919 if they're doing a work study but even with work study you have to 00:28:03.919 --> 00:28:10.559 earn that money to spend it um they say go talk to financial aid 00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:14.000 but the thing with financial aid is if your parents make a certain amount of 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.000 money then they're like oh you can afford 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:19.440 this but depending on the family that you're coming from and you're living 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:25.600 paycheck to paycheck there's no way you can afford books um 00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:29.200 and even if you're like not here on a scholarship 00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:36.080 everybody has a different story and like depending on it we're all here um 00:28:36.080 --> 00:28:43.520 on like circumstance so uh just things that are overpriced 00:28:43.520 --> 00:28:50.080 i find ridiculous because working and like trying to afford books 00:28:50.080 --> 00:28:53.360 things pop up along the way say you get sick you're gonna have to pay for 00:28:53.360 --> 00:28:57.919 medical costs but if you like spend too much on books 00:28:57.919 --> 00:29:00.559 then you're just gonna have to like deal with it 00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:07.760 but a lot of people can't and that's just like 00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:15.600 awful you know i have to say that philosophy they need this statement it 00:29:15.600 --> 00:29:19.679 just sort of defends my sensibilities it's 00:29:19.679 --> 00:29:23.279 kind of like looking at somebody who lives on something like new 00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:28.720 york and saying all new yorkers are rich it just paints everybody with the same 00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:32.480 brush and you know and maybe it's somebody's way 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:35.919 of justifying charging ridiculous prices or making 00:29:35.919 --> 00:29:38.880 money on their own textbook that they spent through their course or whatever 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.080 it is but the fact is that there's a lot of 00:29:42.080 --> 00:29:45.600 students here who do struggle to afford it the tuition 00:29:45.600 --> 00:29:49.919 has gone up significantly year after year after 00:29:49.919 --> 00:29:54.000 year as the state's cut back funding and we've expanded 00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:00.000 offices on campus for supporting all of the prices keeps going up and up and up 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:05.600 and you know as a as a student many years ago you know i was first 00:30:05.600 --> 00:30:08.880 generation my family didn't have anybody my father 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:12.640 called me in before i left and said i can't pay this you know you're gonna 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:16.960 have to pay this yourself and so every dollar matters 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:21.279 you know and i know there's lots of students who are in the same boat now 00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:24.720 you if you happen to look at the kid who's got the a7 that's driving around 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:28.399 campus because you know dad just wanted a brand new one 00:30:28.399 --> 00:30:32.240 the next year that that's not representative of the 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:37.039 typical student on campus and if you think that 00:30:38.159 --> 00:30:42.480 i honestly would not be here if i would have had like the resources 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:45.679 if i wouldn't have had the resources i have 00:30:45.679 --> 00:30:50.240 um to know that as a first generation college student like i can actually go 00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:54.320 to the financial aid office and talk to them about like my situation and um 00:30:54.320 --> 00:30:59.440 get help needed for me um financial wise and 00:31:00.080 --> 00:31:04.640 whatnot but um i honestly would not be here for the price of like textbooks and 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:09.039 like tuition and everything um because even though i work two jobs 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.559 like it's very difficult to struggle even like 12 credit hours 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:17.039 um and two jobs because it's um like working two full-time jobs 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:21.440 i have no time like for social life um or anything like for that matter 00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:26.640 so it's a struggle to hear um people being painted with the same brush 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:31.679 because like i am not wealthy i'm not rich i am very low income um 00:31:31.679 --> 00:31:35.279 so to like paint people with the same brush like 00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:40.559 really really aggravates me um and the fact that it is like 2017 like 00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:45.440 you just can't you can't do that um so 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:51.519 one other thing too i um i work with a student who is first gen and 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:57.279 she drives a luxury vehicle um but yet at the same time she has that 00:31:57.279 --> 00:31:59.440 vehicle because that was the one thing that her 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:05.840 father decided to give her and education is not so therefore even 00:32:05.840 --> 00:32:10.159 though she drives this car and there's the perception that she is a 00:32:10.159 --> 00:32:12.640 certain type of person or comes from a certain type of 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:16.080 background she's paying for her education by herself 00:32:16.080 --> 00:32:19.440 no one else is helping her do that so you know we have to be really careful 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:23.360 about perception um and taking labels and placing them on 00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:25.120 people because of the things that we see or 00:32:25.120 --> 00:32:30.080 don't see manifest their lives um i'd look at students and 00:32:30.080 --> 00:32:34.080 just assume that that um they might 00:32:34.080 --> 00:32:36.880 have something today that they may not have tomorrow we can't assume that 00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:38.880 they're going to have that or have that access 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:43.600 or or have that um you know availability for money or 00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:48.799 support so you know i just think that we need to 00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:51.679 consider students in every decision that we make 00:32:51.679 --> 00:32:56.559 especially where cost is a concern because someone is paying that and i 00:32:56.559 --> 00:32:59.519 think many times it is a student and we just don't really realize that 00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:04.080 that's the case because of other perceptions that we have 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:08.799 i just want to say that i'm also working two jobs one is work study the other one 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:13.679 is because work study wasn't enough yeah um sorry beginner school 00:33:13.679 --> 00:33:18.960 that i got for work study and financial aid in general um 00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:22.240 and i am on a scholarship program as well but it doesn't also doesn't give 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:27.440 enough it gets like a 1 000 a year a stipend that isn't very 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:31.679 much either because it's a small program um so i'm 00:33:31.679 --> 00:33:36.399 paying for rent on my own books on my own 00:33:36.399 --> 00:33:42.640 and tuition on my own and it's pretty difficult to manage two jobs 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:46.480 in social life and coursework at the same time 00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:50.320 and i find that like very degrading to like mental health um i've been in 00:33:50.320 --> 00:33:54.399 positions um throughout my like two years yeah two 00:33:54.399 --> 00:33:57.760 years at college um where i find days like i just don't 00:33:57.760 --> 00:34:00.720 want to get out of bed of the more in the morning um because it 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.120 is such a struggle to like try hard every single day and like it 00:34:05.120 --> 00:34:07.679 may not pay off like i don't know what next year is 00:34:07.679 --> 00:34:13.040 going to be like it's it's very like very mentally deteriorating 00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:16.560 knowing that all of this hard work like might not be 00:34:16.560 --> 00:34:20.399 enough next year um because tuition rates may go up you know books and 00:34:20.399 --> 00:34:23.760 supplies like their rates may go up so it's a very 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:27.679 difficult like um state of mind to be in because 00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:32.320 there's just no certainty yeah also from working at the bookstore 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:38.320 i get like a 10 discount which is like yeah 00:34:38.560 --> 00:34:42.320 and virginia tech does offer many opportunities but 00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:48.800 basing it on like a steakhouse yeah that that means absolutely nothing even 00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:52.000 is the steakhouse 00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:57.760 a lot of people here they do struggle to make ends meet and then it becomes a 00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:00.800 problem because at the end of the semester you 00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:05.599 have to pay if you have any cost and if you don't 00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:09.119 then your accounts are on hold your classes are dropped 00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:14.160 and it's a struggle yeah it's happened to me a few times and 00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:17.920 i just it's a lot to handle being first-gen and like being an 00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:21.599 independent like person it like financially and whatnot like it 00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.920 is very difficult to have to deal with that 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.880 because you don't know like where you're gonna be you know the next month or such 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:30.720 so that's very difficult yeah and like you don't realize the 00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:36.560 resources that you have available um there's not much i have found about 00:35:36.560 --> 00:35:40.320 being like a first generation other than some people who actually know 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:44.560 what's going on exactly um but like coming in you have no idea 00:35:44.560 --> 00:35:48.240 what you're getting yourself into nothing especially as a first-gen 00:35:48.240 --> 00:35:51.760 student and that's why i'm like really really concerned like with the 00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:54.160 university because there is no particular like 00:35:54.160 --> 00:35:59.119 specific resource for first-gen students and if i would not have had the work 00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:02.560 study i do now and they work with potential first 00:36:02.560 --> 00:36:07.119 generation high school students who aren't yet even in college but um if 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:11.760 i would not have that work study now i i really would not be here because um 00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.880 the like faculty and staff i work with um 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:18.320 they helped me tremendously 00:36:18.720 --> 00:36:22.079 and i feel like that's something that we need to improve on 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:26.240 because i mean like the goal of college is to get a higher education and you're 00:36:26.240 --> 00:36:29.839 here to improve your future or the 00:36:29.839 --> 00:36:32.960 like main goal is to improve like our nation 00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:38.160 our like state our county but when it gets to the point of where 00:36:38.160 --> 00:36:42.400 you can't afford education because of books there's something that 00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:46.160 needs to change yeah i also feel like there's like the 00:36:46.160 --> 00:36:49.599 argument that oh why don't you just apply for more scholarships but applying 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:53.839 for scholarships requires like time yes time especially you have 00:36:53.839 --> 00:36:57.200 to make connections with people you know about the scholarships who can 00:36:57.200 --> 00:37:01.680 write your recommendations you have to sometimes be a fee to enter 00:37:01.680 --> 00:37:06.480 in it you have to write an essay and like do all this other stuff 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:10.640 on top of doing school work and having two jobs and all that that's 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:13.599 what i'm struggling with now because december 7th is like the 00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:17.520 scholarship deadline and i'm struggling to find time for that so i 00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:20.640 agree yeah and you're not even guaranteed the scholarship 00:37:20.640 --> 00:37:27.040 money so that's time wasted yeah like it's such a big school 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:32.880 according to the us bureau of labor 00:37:34.839 --> 00:37:39.680 statistics was 3 935 00:37:39.680 --> 00:37:43.520 according to the national association of college stores 00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:51.839 students should budget roughly 200 on educational materials per year 00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:56.320 i think it hurts my soul 00:37:56.640 --> 00:37:59.680 people are already paying so much to get an 00:37:59.680 --> 00:38:04.800 education and it doesn't factor anything because like i said there's like medical 00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:10.560 costs you need to be able to buy personal items um 00:38:10.560 --> 00:38:13.839 there's just so many things that they don't factor in you're gonna need 00:38:13.839 --> 00:38:16.839 clothes you're gonna need winter clothes you're gonna need new 00:38:16.839 --> 00:38:21.920 shoes um there are resources 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:26.800 to help you but you don't know where the resources are like you can 00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:32.400 yeah they're i um it gets frustrating because you have to buy a coat if not 00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:37.200 you're going to be freezing i shouldn't have to budget that much for 00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:40.240 like educational resources and if it gets to 00:38:40.240 --> 00:38:46.160 the point of where i can't like buy shampoo then 00:38:46.160 --> 00:38:49.440 i would rather buy shampoo than buy a book 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:57.920 and like take care of myself for a class that probably won't count towards my 00:38:58.839 --> 00:39:03.599 major i do agree with the um like one twelve 00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:07.200 hundred dollars um a year because that's what i had said 00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:11.280 um earlier i believe i had spent 600 this 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:16.720 semester and 600 last semester um for everything but now um i'm having 00:39:16.720 --> 00:39:20.480 to do uh spend like 35 um 00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:24.400 for like a homework assignment um it's for a foreign language class just to 00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:29.440 speak like uh abroad with a uh international or 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:32.640 national national speaker or whatnot um but i do 00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:36.880 have to pay for that um and it's 35 and already like i 00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:43.040 am down to a budget of like 15 a week um for everything uh for this month because 00:39:43.040 --> 00:39:46.160 i'm like really struggling to pay rent and everything so 00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:49.520 it's going to be a difficult uh thing to pay for 00:39:49.520 --> 00:39:52.000 my class 00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:57.599 and with having to make a budget like that you're gonna have to sacrifice 00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:01.359 things that you shouldn't like people are like oh they're probably spending 00:40:01.359 --> 00:40:05.920 their money going out and everything buying food really you're buying ramen 00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:09.520 yes and having to like make ends meet with 00:40:09.520 --> 00:40:15.839 money that you don't have um having to spend that much 00:40:15.839 --> 00:40:19.680 just a lot of people try to get around it like 00:40:19.680 --> 00:40:24.560 they're like buy a top hat and you're over here like uh because sooner or 00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:26.720 later it all adds up and then you realize how 00:40:26.720 --> 00:40:32.680 much money you spent just on like books access codes 00:40:32.680 --> 00:40:35.920 calculators and i do know of a few students who like 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:40.319 um for my class last year we had to buy top hat and it was like around 15 00:40:40.319 --> 00:40:44.240 of our grade two they couldn't afford it so instead of paying for that they 00:40:44.240 --> 00:40:50.319 like uh that 15 of their grade they got zeros for everything so they risked 00:40:50.319 --> 00:40:54.319 like maybe possibly failing um because it was 00:40:54.319 --> 00:41:00.400 so expensive for top hat just i had a teacher i had two teachers 00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:02.640 actually started using one of them was top hat he 00:41:02.640 --> 00:41:05.760 started using it and then a program didn't work the way you wanted 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:08.480 to so we stopped using it completely and i was like i just wasted oh 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:13.200 my gosh and then like the same thing happened my teacher tried to use 00:41:13.200 --> 00:41:16.160 re-pulling she didn't hook up the eye clickers right like through the school 00:41:16.160 --> 00:41:20.800 or something and then she stopped using it wow 00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:27.599 yeah i think it says something when um we have things like food pantries 00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:33.520 that serve our students or we have a clothes closet where students can go 00:41:33.520 --> 00:41:37.280 and get clothing or we have faculty members who will 00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:41.599 bring items to my office to leave them so that 00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:45.040 students can come and get the resources they need just for their daily 00:41:45.040 --> 00:41:49.200 living so you know there's a real disconnect here 00:41:49.200 --> 00:41:55.359 um as to what we're asking students to pay just to get educated 00:41:55.359 --> 00:41:58.800 when we have kids and i'm sorry i'm gonna call you all kids 00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:05.440 we have we have kids who cannot afford basic living necessities in order to be 00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:09.200 educated on this campus we have some priorities that need to be 00:42:09.200 --> 00:42:13.280 realigned um thank goodness for people who have 00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:16.319 kind hearts and don't mind should go the extra mile 00:42:16.319 --> 00:42:19.680 to provide students what we need for what they need 00:42:19.680 --> 00:42:23.599 but um you know we all need to look a little deeper and figure out 00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:28.400 what each of us can do to make things more affordable for our students and if 00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:33.040 you know if books is what it is or materials is what it is 00:42:33.040 --> 00:42:37.280 then we need to come together and figure out ways to make that happen 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:41.440 um we can't keep holding back education for people 00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:48.000 and and using um money and lack of money as as the mechanism 00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:52.640 through which we do that it's just it's not right 00:42:53.040 --> 00:42:59.359 do you all believe that professors understand the struggles of acquiring 00:43:02.720 --> 00:43:08.880 um some i feel like some professors do understand if you sit down and you have 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:13.680 to talk and you'll be like i'm struggling financially and i mean 00:43:13.680 --> 00:43:18.960 that so much but um some of them i feel would be like 00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:22.079 why are you taking this class if you can't afford it 00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:26.720 and that's just an injustice to you and your learning 00:43:26.720 --> 00:43:31.599 and that would need to change if they're not understanding because i feel like to 00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:36.960 be a professor you should be prepared to understand that not every student is 00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.760 the same nobody has the same background and 00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:43.680 nobody has the same opportunities 00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.520 i do think faculty members 00:43:47.839 --> 00:43:52.839 the ones who really are aware of the students setting out in their classrooms 00:43:52.839 --> 00:43:57.839 um will do what they can to to make things accessible to students 00:43:57.839 --> 00:44:02.160 i've seen that um many many times i don't know though that 00:44:02.160 --> 00:44:05.680 everyone is aware of who's standing out in the classroom and so maybe that's the 00:44:05.680 --> 00:44:09.680 problem it's just that you know we we don't know who's in the 00:44:09.680 --> 00:44:12.880 classroom we're not getting to know our students and i know 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:16.000 it's hard when you have a classroom full of hundreds of students how are you 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:20.800 possibly um going to get to know everyone on the level that you need to 00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:25.200 to understand how difficult things might be for them 00:44:25.200 --> 00:44:30.400 but you know maybe if you work from the perspective of 00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:36.240 that every student is needy in some way and you don't know what that 00:44:36.240 --> 00:44:40.640 is but you just try to accommodate them in 00:44:40.640 --> 00:44:45.520 in a way that that makes their learning possible 00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:48.560 in in the least 00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:52.240 i guess in in ways that that take the least from them 00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:55.280 um that you're probably going to be coming from it 00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:59.440 from a good starting point um but i do think you know 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:04.960 if people are aware of what the um of what students are dealing with that 00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:10.000 they're more inclined to be supportive um so but i haven't been in the 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.560 classroom in a really long time so there's a whole lot of faculty members 00:45:14.560 --> 00:45:17.920 with parents and i think if they flipped a 00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:21.440 perspective to the bills that we have to pay for the 00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:26.880 materials for our kids who are students and use that 00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:31.040 same mindset when we're specifying materials rolling forces 00:45:31.040 --> 00:45:34.400 that we would be a lot more careful about what we 00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:39.680 require and i think that's something every faculty member should 00:45:39.680 --> 00:45:46.400 try to do is think about being on the other side of this yeah 00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:50.960 um for me specifically um i've had for my personal finance class 00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:54.720 um he was rather understanding and like in the class like he 00:45:54.720 --> 00:45:59.119 understands that you know not everyone has enough money to buy books and 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:02.160 supplies and that's why he said at the beginning of the classes 00:46:02.160 --> 00:46:04.480 you know you don't have to purchase the book 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:07.839 if you like don't have the money for it it's not critical 00:46:07.839 --> 00:46:11.119 to your learning for the class but as far as my 00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:14.160 freshman first semester or second semester 00:46:14.160 --> 00:46:17.520 um where i didn't have enough money to purchase the iclicker 00:46:17.520 --> 00:46:24.000 um i reached out to the professor and he didn't really seem understanding um and 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:26.480 so i've gotten mixed signals from my 00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:30.960 professors some are understanding and some aren't 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:37.680 so i don't think faculty realize that fifty dollars thirty five dollars 00:46:37.680 --> 00:46:43.839 fifteen dollars is a lot of money for someone 00:46:45.520 --> 00:46:50.240 um i've had teachers well this was like a liberal arts class for 00:46:50.240 --> 00:46:53.359 organ gender studies where my teacher would instead 00:46:53.359 --> 00:46:58.079 like post pdfs and stuff that's everything she wants to do 00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:01.280 instead of giving us a giant textbook which i appreciated 00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:05.359 yeah um and i feel like that's pretty easy too i don't understand why more 00:47:05.359 --> 00:47:09.680 teachers don't do that um because you're not using it for like 00:47:09.680 --> 00:47:12.400 commercial purposes you're just giving it to your students to learn 00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.839 right so i don't think it's breaking any laws um another 00:47:15.839 --> 00:47:22.839 teacher um for my neuroscience lab they put the lab 00:47:22.839 --> 00:47:28.319 materials in a word document online instead of having us buy a lab animal 00:47:28.319 --> 00:47:33.280 from the bookstore um and 00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:40.240 for a class on in for human development we have to do this online program 00:47:40.240 --> 00:47:47.119 my virtual child where we like raise a virtual child and so he split us into 00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:53.599 groups and so um groups of three and the software is like 70 yards like 00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:57.680 49 and so um we are each paying like a 00:47:57.680 --> 00:48:01.920 fraction of the cost and splitting it which i think is really 00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:06.079 smart of him yeah my sociology professor 00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:10.319 actually uh uploaded pdfs as well instead of making us buy the book 00:48:10.319 --> 00:48:13.440 so that was really helpful 00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:20.079 um 00:48:26.160 --> 00:48:30.319 you can i just wrote a chapter on this and i'm not entirely certain that i 00:48:30.319 --> 00:48:34.000 understand it still after doing a whole bunch of research so 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:37.520 i can tell you what i saw but i'd love to hear from you 00:48:37.520 --> 00:48:41.520 from from my perspective it depends on the course and whether you teach it by 00:48:41.520 --> 00:48:46.000 yourself or whether there's a big class divided in lots of sections 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:49.280 when you're on a team if you're if you're teaching a course 00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:53.599 that's the core course where you have 15 or something sections 00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:56.400 of the course there are eight different instructors you have to select the 00:48:56.400 --> 00:49:00.160 materials together and so the evaluation process can be 00:49:00.160 --> 00:49:05.280 long or rather painful where you request a bunch of different sample 00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:08.960 copies from different publishers and you read 00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:12.240 through them you read the table of contents you scan the chapters you look 00:49:12.240 --> 00:49:16.880 through how updated the examples are at the end 00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:19.280 of the day you have some discussions and writing 00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:22.240 books and then you go in deeper on the top 00:49:22.240 --> 00:49:25.359 top two or three choices and you pick something that 00:49:25.359 --> 00:49:31.760 ends up being what we consider the best fit for the course never in 00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:34.880 the times i've been through that process has cost actually 00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:40.800 been a factor we're looking for the best material for the course if 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:45.200 you're if you're fortunate enough 00:49:45.200 --> 00:49:49.920 to be teaching the course by yourself and you can do what you want 00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:53.119 and you have a lot more latitude and i'm going to guess that when you're a 00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:56.800 sociology professor the pdf said that was probably of course 00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:01.119 that he or she talked by themselves and have the latitude to do that kind of 00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:04.960 thing so it really depends on the nature of the 00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:08.000 course and how many faculty members have their hands in it 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:11.760 because as a as a department you want the experience 00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:16.319 in a course to be the same irrespective of what faculty member is teaching you 00:50:16.319 --> 00:50:20.800 so you want them using as much common material as possible so that 00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:24.800 if you're taking course a with you know professor jones that picks an awful lot 00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:28.640 like first edward professor smith 00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:35.280 that's consistent with what i learned that the 00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:39.200 lower divisional courses the first two years of college 00:50:39.200 --> 00:50:43.359 tend to be chosen by committee and then if 00:50:43.359 --> 00:50:46.800 a faculty member is the only one who teaches something or if it's an upper 00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:49.040 divisional course or a graduate level course 00:50:49.040 --> 00:50:55.839 they have the full academic freedom to choose what they want to use 00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:01.599 i think that there's a lot of um 00:51:03.200 --> 00:51:06.319 there's a definitely a lack of awareness regarding what 00:51:06.319 --> 00:51:09.680 all of the options might be some of you have mentioned 00:51:09.680 --> 00:51:14.880 that your teachers have used articles and library resources 00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:22.000 and i don't think we look at those kinds of things enough um 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:26.240 i run a program to raise awareness about open textbooks 00:51:26.240 --> 00:51:31.760 and there are hundreds i think the open textbook 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:34.800 library has over 400 books in it right now and 00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:39.680 people are actively authoring and so the options are increasing 00:51:39.680 --> 00:51:44.880 but getting the word out is is challenging because it's not we don't 00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:48.839 have a sales force in the way that that a lot of the commercial publishers 00:51:48.839 --> 00:51:54.559 do and then the last piece not related to 00:51:54.559 --> 00:52:00.319 course material selection but just what the library is doing i noticed 00:52:00.319 --> 00:52:03.359 i was looking around in our library reserves and 00:52:03.359 --> 00:52:08.240 there's one particular course where the faculty member has 00:52:08.240 --> 00:52:13.839 put eight copies of the book on reserve and that made me really happy to see 00:52:13.839 --> 00:52:18.480 that someone is paying attention to the student needs and that those those 00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:21.280 resources are 00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:29.200 you know at least available somewhat so 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:35.760 i agree with you on cost that it's not the primary motivator it's the 00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:41.280 the instructional fit i have heard some departments say that 00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:45.359 they talk about cost and they have sort of a ceiling 00:52:45.359 --> 00:52:50.960 of how much is too much but i don't know that it matches the ceiling that 00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:55.359 students have of how much is too much 00:52:57.599 --> 00:53:04.480 this question again is what struggles the students 00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:09.440 might not be able to see would be helping my family members 00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:15.839 trying to make educational experience 00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:21.200 tough question um 00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:26.839 we i think most of us want to do right by the students 00:53:26.839 --> 00:53:34.319 and maybe i'm getting into the question i'll let you know uh one of the things 00:53:34.319 --> 00:53:38.079 that after the episode with the used textbook 00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:42.000 at the bookstore where i got basically an attitude from them when i 00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:45.440 pointed out that this book was very overpriced i started 00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:48.400 looking for up for options that led me to 00:53:48.400 --> 00:53:54.079 amina and that was when we decided to take an open source 00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:58.240 book and update updater i had no idea what i was 00:53:58.240 --> 00:54:01.760 getting them i thought this was going to be you know 00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:05.200 a few tweaks here and there it will be all set to go 00:54:05.200 --> 00:54:10.480 i i i'm just going to guess like somewhere in the neighborhood thousand 00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:16.640 hours into this book and i don't i don't think anybody 00:54:16.640 --> 00:54:21.520 should cheer for me for that but it is a struggle 00:54:21.520 --> 00:54:26.079 to find the time when you're doing other things 00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:31.920 lots of other things to to to really invest in creating materials 00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:37.040 that can be free we we pdf the entire book 00:54:37.040 --> 00:54:40.240 chapter by chapter and every canvas lesson 00:54:40.240 --> 00:54:46.400 has a chapter attached right out to the course cycling when you're doing chapter 00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:49.599 day and i i hope that students are reading 00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:54.160 and i'm sure that none of them sit there and ponder you know script 00:54:54.160 --> 00:54:58.640 that must have put a lot of time i don't think that's never crossed 00:54:58.640 --> 00:55:03.920 anyone's mind and i don't care because the yeah i didn't do it for sex 00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:09.680 i did it because a little bit because books 00:55:13.520 --> 00:55:16.799 because when you take something and you use 00:55:16.799 --> 00:55:22.319 very similar that that really offended me it gave me a sense of motivation that 00:55:22.319 --> 00:55:26.880 there's got to be a better way and in addition to all of the 00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:30.240 cost value associated with doing this book 00:55:30.240 --> 00:55:34.720 we got to kind of customize it to the way we wanted it 00:55:34.799 --> 00:55:38.400 the chapters of the original book are way too long there are way too many 00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:41.440 examples we use student reviewers to look at the 00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:43.920 chapters and say nobody's going to read that it's too 00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:48.000 long shrink it and you need to get this more debate this is an out-of-date 00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:50.799 example and by the time we were done i felt like 00:55:50.799 --> 00:55:54.960 we had a pretty decent product that the chapters were shorter more 00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:59.440 conversational and tied in more with what i wanted the 00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:03.599 course to be about so we serve two masters we've got a 00:56:03.599 --> 00:56:07.680 better book and more targeted for the course and 00:56:07.680 --> 00:56:11.760 it's free and so we we have two things in my 00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:15.520 course that cost money one of which i'm going to eliminate next year 00:56:15.520 --> 00:56:20.720 i think the entire course is 29 for all the materials in the course 00:56:20.720 --> 00:56:25.200 and i think i'm going to make it a little cheaper next year 00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:29.040 i should say that the book is free to the world 00:56:29.040 --> 00:56:34.960 then it has an open license on it and that there are over 41 000 downloads of 00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:42.480 of the book in 18 months so i regularly get emails from 00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.599 other schools from professors at other schools asking 00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:58.400 for slides and powerpoints and test banks and um people 00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:02.799 people are seeing this and they're using it 00:57:02.799 --> 00:57:08.480 and um that's really exciting to me we this was the first project that we 00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:11.359 did so i didn't know how much work it would be either 00:57:11.359 --> 00:57:16.799 and we have greatly adjusted our process 00:57:17.680 --> 00:57:22.079 a lot of a lot of learning involved in that 00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:25.680 i'm i'm really grateful that we were able to complete it and that you 00:57:25.680 --> 00:57:31.680 continue to use it and that it fits once we started i felt like there was no 00:57:31.680 --> 00:57:34.640 turning back because i didn't really have an 00:57:34.640 --> 00:57:38.240 alternative the used book backfired when they 00:57:38.240 --> 00:57:41.200 overpriced it i had to do something i had to have 00:57:41.200 --> 00:57:47.040 something ready for the class and so once we started the process even even 00:57:47.040 --> 00:57:50.640 though by about chapter 7 out of 17 or 00:57:50.640 --> 00:57:55.839 something chapters i was 00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:04.799 yeah well i'll say thank you 00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:09.839 yeah that's awesome 00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:19.839 um so that actually was the book i was 00:58:19.839 --> 00:58:24.240 talking about so the process was essentially we 00:58:24.240 --> 00:58:28.480 went through all of the different open source books that were out there 00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:31.920 found the one that was closest to what i was looking for 00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:36.000 and then began the process of updating it because a lot of the examples 00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:42.799 and graphs it was just very dated i think it was in 2011 was the addition 00:58:42.799 --> 00:58:45.520 we worked for so we had to bring it forward in 2015 or 00:58:45.520 --> 00:58:49.119 16 and you know things that weren't 00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:54.079 prevalent in 2011 like spotify as a business when we talked 00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:56.799 about the music industry all of a sudden you can't really talk 00:58:56.799 --> 00:58:59.359 about that without spotify so you have to kind of bring 00:58:59.359 --> 00:59:05.040 things like that into play where else students will say you know 00:59:05.040 --> 00:59:07.520 yesterday 00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:12.480 so having student reviewers was a really really 00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.680 important process because everywhere where i was 00:59:15.680 --> 00:59:19.839 pretty often 00:59:30.240 --> 00:59:34.559 the whole and not not just because of costs 00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:38.720 but in large part because of cost because 00:59:38.720 --> 00:59:44.799 if as i look back on the process that wasn't primarily the the fact that 00:59:44.799 --> 00:59:49.920 the book matches the course really well was kind of a nice outcome but cost was 00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:53.119 the primary motivation and i can't go back there's no other 00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:56.720 option to go back to that's not going to cost students i 00:59:56.720 --> 00:59:58.640 think the new book from my course would be 00:59:58.640 --> 01:00:02.880 someone on the order of 300 bucks it's not worth it 01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:06.319 i look at that book and i'm like this book is not like 01:00:06.319 --> 01:00:10.319 i'm not even sure if you saved a zero off of it would be worth 30 bucks it's 01:00:10.319 --> 01:00:14.160 just the book of my fundamental business it hasn't doesn't change that 01:00:14.160 --> 01:00:19.599 much so no i remember that 01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:25.280 going back to all of the students um what do you all wish that professors 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:29.839 knew about students experiences 01:00:31.359 --> 01:00:35.839 to everyone has a story and we don't have the same opportunities as everyone 01:00:35.839 --> 01:00:39.760 else we all come in 01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:45.280 to get a higher education to make the world better to better ourselves and our 01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:49.839 community and to look 01:00:49.839 --> 01:00:57.599 and think do i really need this to teach my course is it necessary 01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:03.760 will it help them along in the future and just take price and consideration 01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:12.400 um many in this day and age many um students 01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:19.200 are providing for themselves times are different and 01:01:19.200 --> 01:01:24.720 to like find money to use for books or just educational resources isn't 01:01:24.720 --> 01:01:27.040 there 01:01:28.319 --> 01:01:31.680 i agree i also wish they think about like what the bookstore is doing because 01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:33.520 i'm sure a lot of teachers don't realize that it's 01:01:33.520 --> 01:01:39.200 like a musician in the bookstore it's going to be sometimes as expensive 01:01:39.200 --> 01:01:44.720 um and then also like looking at the online option what you 01:01:44.720 --> 01:01:47.839 said before about like putting their quizzes on canvas instead of putting you 01:01:47.839 --> 01:01:52.559 know access code or something um and then also like 01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:55.920 people learn in different ways so some people would rather have 01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:59.520 like more in-depth lectures rather than reading a textbook 01:01:59.520 --> 01:02:03.920 um so i wish they had thought about that i know i have one teacher who he picked 01:02:03.920 --> 01:02:07.599 the specific access code he picked because it also had 01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:11.440 a listing option and an app so people can just listen to the book if that's 01:02:11.440 --> 01:02:14.559 how they prefer to learn um so i actually thought 01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:19.280 more about like making more options available for 01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:21.680 learning 01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:29.680 um have any other professors ever had required branding resources that 01:02:29.680 --> 01:02:34.799 were reasonably priced or free or 01:02:34.799 --> 01:02:38.960 accommodate your needs in any other ways 01:02:41.520 --> 01:02:47.039 i would say in my graduate program that most of the resources that have been 01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:52.880 used have been either free or very inexpensive 01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:59.200 or i can use an older version um i've even had professors give me books 01:02:59.200 --> 01:03:01.520 say bring those brains back when you get a chance or 01:03:01.520 --> 01:03:06.079 pass it on to someone else um so i think graduate school in my at 01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:09.359 least in my program is is different than than what some of the 01:03:09.359 --> 01:03:16.000 undergraduate students are experiencing um and so yeah i've had um 01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:22.960 i would say probably 99 good um experience with with 01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:26.160 getting materials but again i'm a graduate student and so that's 01:03:26.160 --> 01:03:34.079 it's different i think some teachers um like he would do would tell kids 01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:39.680 to not buy their book at the bookstore to just go out and buy it from like book 01:03:39.680 --> 01:03:41.920 holders or something and then they're very 01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:46.079 understanding about like shipping like if it takes a while to get here 01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:48.960 so that was nice 01:03:49.920 --> 01:03:53.599 yeah like i said most of them some teachers have like pdfs and stuff 01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:56.720 like you said they will recommend going to vocal verbs or like one time my 01:03:56.720 --> 01:03:59.440 teacher even gave me like an amazon link because he wanted us 01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:05.920 to make sure that we got the right one and that it was an order edition 01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:08.240 um 01:04:09.520 --> 01:04:13.280 more in-depth lectures too like my personal finance instructor 01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:16.559 where he doesn't require the textbook and like it's not necessarily 01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:23.119 critical for us to have it um he uh just teaches more in depth um 01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:26.720 and i think that's like really beneficial to do that 01:04:26.720 --> 01:04:31.039 as well um also like my sociology professor he 01:04:31.039 --> 01:04:34.400 like was really understanding and i would use pdfs 01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:37.440 instead of like having an actual textbook 01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:41.119 and if like we didn't have to have the textbook but we did use an access code 01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:45.119 for top hat so i think like instead of like top hat 01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:48.400 was beneficial like for my learning experience because 01:04:48.400 --> 01:04:52.079 you you would you would ask questions in class and so 01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:54.799 like really like motivate you to be in class and 01:04:54.799 --> 01:04:58.400 kind of really pay attention so i think like not necessarily 01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:01.920 prioritizing like the textbook over other things but the way he did it 01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:07.920 um having the pdfs and the top hat i i think that's a good combination and 01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:10.400 i think he was pretty mindful about costs 01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:12.799 in that 01:05:14.319 --> 01:05:17.760 i would like to open this up 01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:21.200 i need a question 01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.640 but it's um my understanding for a few years that it's actually like 01:05:24.640 --> 01:05:28.880 a legal requirement to um list the cost of textbooks 01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:33.440 in the syllabus before the class uh begins so that students can kind of 01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:38.720 evaluate cost beforehand before the first week of classes however i've 01:05:38.720 --> 01:05:41.599 never almost never seen the syllabus before 01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:45.520 the first day of class professors so if this is true which 01:05:45.520 --> 01:05:49.200 again i could be mistaken on that on that fact but um if 01:05:49.200 --> 01:05:52.400 that's true then you know where's the accountability for 01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:56.160 actually posting it two three weeks in advance a month in 01:05:56.160 --> 01:06:00.240 advance over the summer everyone breaks so you know or even by the time 01:06:00.240 --> 01:06:04.160 that i think it should be by the time um the course request comes out so that 01:06:04.160 --> 01:06:07.119 yeah it's part of when you go on and you're looking at the class description 01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:10.720 the times it needs it has a link to you know the pdf version 01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:14.240 um of the syllabus so you can look in there and see the exact cost and you say 01:06:14.240 --> 01:06:17.839 well i'm not gonna first request this and risk getting this and not that other 01:06:17.839 --> 01:06:21.680 class i mean because i cannot afford this amount um or you 01:06:21.680 --> 01:06:23.839 can start looking at that gives you that much more time to 01:06:23.839 --> 01:06:28.160 you know look at what what um i guess choices you have so 01:06:28.160 --> 01:06:31.440 price comparing because we all know that um textbooks like on 01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:35.359 amazon for holders the sooner you can buy it the cheaper will be because the 01:06:35.359 --> 01:06:40.880 man will jack up those prices um so i did probably professors might have 01:06:40.880 --> 01:06:43.599 books so the higher education authorization 01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:50.000 act is the one that requires the information about 01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:54.880 required learning resource costs to be available at the time of registration 01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:58.880 and there's no specific way that the law says that must be 01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:03.280 implemented so the way the university has done that is to provide a link 01:07:03.280 --> 01:07:12.079 to the bookstore from banner and faculty are required 01:07:12.079 --> 01:07:15.280 and supposed to submit their orders to the bookstore 01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:19.039 by a certain point so i think it's april 15th for the spring i don't know what 01:07:19.039 --> 01:07:22.880 the or for fall courses um 01:07:22.880 --> 01:07:26.000 and then i don't know what he does for spring 01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:29.200 i don't know what the compliance level is um 01:07:29.200 --> 01:07:33.839 i've had people say very hard we're supposed to do that yeah 01:07:33.839 --> 01:07:41.280 it's by law yes though and so the costs is required on the syllabus like oh wait 01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:43.760 well i i haven't heard that okay okay that's 01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:46.720 what i'm saying like oh okay i think it should be more 01:07:46.720 --> 01:07:50.160 accessible yeah information is required to be put 01:07:50.160 --> 01:07:53.839 out there it should be a lot more accessible because i noticed 01:07:53.839 --> 01:07:58.000 that that fact for years and never knew how this was figured out right i just 01:07:58.000 --> 01:08:01.039 took my chances yeah it's not an easy thing to navigate 01:08:01.039 --> 01:08:04.400 either i've seen that a few times on banner 01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:08.039 um but again if you're especially if you're an incoming student 01:08:08.039 --> 01:08:11.039 or 01:08:11.119 --> 01:08:14.480 someone who does not have any kind of background or 01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:17.679 information about education or how to navigate the system you're gonna have a 01:08:17.679 --> 01:08:23.040 really hard time doing that yeah um yeah no go ahead 01:08:23.040 --> 01:08:26.159 there are some schools that are are adding 01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:30.960 that data to their registration systems so they're providing a more tight 01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:36.560 integration so you could actually see this course is going to cost 01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:42.400 you know 129 dollars or 2015 or this course is going to cost 10 or 01:08:42.400 --> 01:08:45.679 nothing what will happen though is if that 01:08:45.679 --> 01:08:49.600 becomes available people are going to start shopping yes 01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:52.560 yes their education yeah and then we have a bigger debate on 01:08:52.560 --> 01:08:56.400 our hands about about lots of things right i'm not 01:08:56.400 --> 01:09:01.040 afraid of that fate um however it will you know 01:09:01.040 --> 01:09:06.000 potential of um having to talk about some really hard issues 01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:10.159 when we start when students start shopping due to cost 01:09:10.159 --> 01:09:14.319 and planning their education like i did unbeknownst even that i was doing it 01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:18.319 planning my education around what i can afford and what i can't afford 01:09:18.319 --> 01:09:22.080 and that's a problem that's a big problem if we're going to have to go 01:09:22.080 --> 01:09:25.199 down that road yeah and it is it's also disappointing 01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:28.480 um because a lot of i have professors that don't use the bookstore 01:09:28.480 --> 01:09:31.920 right so if they're not even thinking you know send that data by the 01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:35.359 registration right there's absolutely no way of finding out 01:09:35.359 --> 01:09:39.199 even if you were well-versed and how to kind of go through that process um i 01:09:39.199 --> 01:09:42.000 also have students or professors that have added decide to add 01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:44.719 i mean it's not even a textbook but i'll add like a novel with a global two 01:09:44.719 --> 01:09:47.759 degree like two weeks of the semester cash yeah 01:09:47.759 --> 01:09:50.799 there's a 49 novel that we want you to read so 01:09:50.799 --> 01:09:53.839 there's there's lots of components 01:09:55.040 --> 01:09:58.080 the primary way that the library gets our list 01:09:58.080 --> 01:10:03.199 of textbooks that have been adopted for the semester which we have some funds to 01:10:03.199 --> 01:10:07.120 purchase both in in ebook form or in print is from the 01:10:07.120 --> 01:10:11.040 bookstore so if the bookstore list is missing things we are missing 01:10:11.040 --> 01:10:15.920 information as well and you know the other thing to think about is financial 01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:17.920 aid so when financial aid is set up for 01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:21.360 students there's there's a line item in everyone's financial aid 01:10:21.360 --> 01:10:24.640 that includes books when was the last time 01:10:24.640 --> 01:10:29.040 that a survey was done to see what is the real cost 01:10:29.040 --> 01:10:34.800 um for those books and supplies that that line item in our financial aid 01:10:34.800 --> 01:10:37.920 that's supposed to provide for that i would be curious to know 01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:41.040 when was the last time anyone looked into that really in depth and did 01:10:41.040 --> 01:10:47.520 something about it so if you're looking for things yeah 01:10:49.120 --> 01:10:52.239 i mean i've had issues at the bookstore where people come in and they 01:10:52.239 --> 01:10:57.199 have to have a specific book by like the first day of class or whatever and 01:10:57.199 --> 01:10:59.840 it hasn't come in yet or like the professor 01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:04.560 put in the notice late and the bookstore didn't have time to order it for them 01:11:04.560 --> 01:11:07.840 and like the professor was insistent like people came back like 01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:11.040 for several days like where's the textbook and really 01:11:11.040 --> 01:11:16.800 they your teacher didn't request one and so the professor was like a new ta like 01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:21.280 a grad student or someone who like didn't know how to work them 01:11:21.280 --> 01:11:24.239 didn't go through they weren't understanding for the students who were 01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:26.560 frustrated because they couldn't get the book and the tv was 01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:45.290 teaching without it it's very difficult 01:11:53.440 --> 01:11:59.120 to this whole concern so there's one other 01:11:59.679 --> 01:12:02.880 i think aspect of a research university that's 01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:10.480 important to note is that faculty rewards for teaching are 01:12:10.480 --> 01:12:18.080 less important less valued than research and 01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:23.360 i think that there is a place for valuing teaching 01:12:23.360 --> 01:12:27.120 and i think that plays into these issues as well 01:12:27.120 --> 01:12:31.280 where faculty are not 01:12:33.280 --> 01:12:37.120 they're they're not they don't receive awards for 01:12:37.120 --> 01:12:40.800 for teaching well in the same way that they do 01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:44.080 receive awards for research and that plays into 01:12:44.080 --> 01:12:54.450 how much time they would like to invest in addressing these kinds of issues 01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:06.960 thank you thank you 01:13:10.400 --> 01:13:20.960 thank you very much you