WEBVTT
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Yeah. Mhm. Okay. Yeah, Yeah.
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Hello, everyone. I am Julie Speer, associate
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dean for research, Informatics University libraries. And I
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am going to just provide a very great thank you
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and welcome to the event We appreciate your time and
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your your interest in open education and educational resources.
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And, um, we thank you for coming.
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Um, the library is thinking a lot about this
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year's around open education and its changes in spelling communication
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. And so it's important for us to involve the
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community in these discussions. So we hope that this
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is the very beginning of a series of conversations with
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the campus community. So, please, we encourage
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you to leave your information in the back so that
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we can contact you and continue the discussion at this
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event. So thank you again for coming in the
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Hamptons over to any walls. Our assessment, open
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education and online learning environments. Librarian who coordinated event
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. Tremendous job. Mhm. Mm. Hi,
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everyone. Thank you so much for coming today.
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Um, we are here for a couple of different
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reasons, and one is to celebrate open Education Week
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. And the other one is to have a really
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great conversation. Let me first switch these slides.
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Um, just to give you an idea. What
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you see around you are some examples of open educational
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resources as well as, uh, some student feedback
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we've gotten in the last few days. Um,
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and some resources that we've used to teach people,
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um, how open educational resources can be of interest
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. So go ahead, Scott. Mhm. Mhm
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. So you might ask, Why are we here
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? We are here because the cost of supplies and
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text books for students has gone up extraordinarily between 1978
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a couple years ago, this went up over 800%
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. Um, this is higher than the increasing cost
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of medical care, the increasing cost of new homes
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and higher than the consumer price projects. So we're
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talking about the blue line, which rises exponentially,
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exponentially but rises very significantly. Um, let's take
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a poll. What do you think students spend on
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average during an average year, or should expect to
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spend during an average year? Maybe you already know
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this, um, on textbooks and supplies. Any
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guesses? Let's taste it yourself. 6 to 700
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. Okay. Yes. 1200. Okay. 1400
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. Yeah. A crisis. So according to the
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College Board. The number is$1214. That's what
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students should expect to pay. Um, what students
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actually pay, according to the National Association of College
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Stores, is closer to$600 a year. That
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means that there's a gap between what students should expect
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to pay him what they actually pay to add to
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that research through the, um, student perks.
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A national study of 1200 students over over 150 campuses
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indicated that only that 65% of students at given time
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said this textbook is too expensive. I'm not buying
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it. So our students are going without learning materials
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in cases. And we want this conversation to not
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be only about, um, student learning, but
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about faculty teaching, because the existence of open licensing
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gives a tremendous amount of opportunities for faculty to do
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really creative things to adopt resources for their courses,
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too. Right? Um openly licensed materials to share
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them to have and others reuse them. Um,
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there are also some wonderful opportunities that allow us to
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not have to go through a fair use analysis.
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Um, there's some copyright reasons why, um,
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open educational resources. Openly licensed resources are really wonderful
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. It's easier. So with that, I would
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like to give the rest of the time to the
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panel we're going to do is have each person speak
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. We'll take a couple questions, have the next
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person speak, take a couple questions and go until
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we're done, and then we'll we'll just I'll talk
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at one time. So, um, I'd like
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to I would like to, um, yes.
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So this is the face of our students. Just
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to make this really personal, the didn't go over
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. Okay, so just ignore the slide over there
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. So I'd like to introduce to you our Panelists
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. Um, starting on the far end is Mohamed
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Siam. Um Mohammed, a doctoral student in computer
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science, is from Egypt. He is also the
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winner of the Open con scholarship, which was funded
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by the graduate school and the library university libraries this
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fall. So he won himself a trip to Washington
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D. C. To explore many of these concepts
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. And those of us here at the library who
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have heard a little bit about his, um,
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his experiences there would have loved to have been there
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. So next we have a peak heart. Um
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, he is a senior instructor of mathematics. That's
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OK. Oh, I'm not a senior. Well
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, you are now the mathematics department here at Virginia
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Tech. I had the pleasure of teaching in one
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of his classes as a librarian to some of his
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students. Um, that was really fun. Um
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, Greg Hartman is a is an associate professor,
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also of mathematics at Virginia Military Institute. He is
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also a hokey, um, received his PhD,
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earned his PhD here mathematics department, Um, and
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Dr Peter Doolittle, who I understand, was also
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teaching math. Oh, yes. To middle schoolers
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. Yes. Not the same. Yes. Okay
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, so three of our folks, and probably all
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four have math connections. But Dr Dolittle is the
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assistant photos for teaching and learning the at Virginia Tech
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. He's a professor in the school of education,
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and he is the executive director for the center of
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for Instructional Developed Cider. Yeah. Cider instructional development
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and educational research. So welcome. And thank you
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very much for coming. So come on. Hello
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. My name is Mohammed, and as I will
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introduce a PhD student in computer science department, I
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don't have slides, so I'm just sharing some point
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experience related to the conference I attended and my life
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as an assistant. They have a researcher and sometimes
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like assistant who is using, UM, Graduate box
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and material and papers and publications as a student and
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sometimes as an instructor for my students. So basically
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my story with open access began when I was back
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in my country, it was really hard to find
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some material. I was a Masters student there,
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and when I wanted a paper or I wanted to
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use some reference, it was quite hard for me
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to access this paper because of my university wasn't subscribed
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to as much journals and magazines as virginity. So
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when I came here for my PhD study, it
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was like a paradise for me because I was able
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to get whatever papers I, especially in the computer
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science department. We need lots of papers because it's
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very, uh, rapid based field. Every day
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we have lots of papers we have to follow up
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with, so it was great and I felt that
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everything is at my fingertips. But then I knew
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that Virginia Tech spending how many million dollars for these
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subscriptions. So I began thinking okay, that's not
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the case. That's not the right thing. Because
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I felt that it was Operate was free but wasn't
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free at all. Because these millions of dollars millions
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, actually, 67 something like that are being spent
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, uh, from the budget that we are all
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paying for it so these millions can be used for
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so many other things. So the things that okay
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, I began to read about this issue. I
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began to be interested in open access. And then
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I applied to the school er shape and I went
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to D. C. And I think the conference
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and people, we're discussing some very different topics starting
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from open access in general to open publication and to
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open education resources that we are talking about today.
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And the thing for me was that moving from discussing
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the cost of education, which is the main problem
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that you were talking about today through the value of
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education, because we know that education can be considered
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that most valuable asset. If you want to invest
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in for your kids or for yourself, you have
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to invest in education. So moving from this value
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of education to only talk about the cost of education
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is not directing to do so. What can we
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do to help this for me? Personally, I
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was more interested in open applications and open data and
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open access to whatever data I want to use.
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Either My research, Um, I mean, open
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data repositories or for being able to publish my material
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and get more material online for free. But then
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it seems to be not for free at all because
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people who are working with research and people who are
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putting this material online still need to be funded by
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whatever source. So currently, this fund and this
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money is coming from people who are using this material
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. So the first step is okay. We need
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to find some resources to help us offering these free
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material one of the most important things that can help
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you. There's actually things like what's happening here at
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Virginia attack, because this semester I was thinking to
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publish in an open access journal. But the first
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, the problem I face is that okay, It
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would cost me$1000 to published in the journal,
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which for the journal it's reasonable because readers later do
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not need to pay for this, but John John
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needs to have some money to appear in. So
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the first question is that Okay, how am I
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going support for this$1000. And the thing came
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by checking the library website and I found Okay,
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this journal is Virginia Tech is subscribed to a partnership
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with the journal and they can find me with they
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have a discount so it would cost only 800 then
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they can even pay for this 800. So that
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was great. And that was a very good first
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step toward promoting open publishing and open education material in
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general. But then what would be the case with
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other journals? And what would be the case with
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other universities that I don't even know about this kind
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of subscriptions and journalist? So this should be the
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thing that we have to move forward in our discussion
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, promoting for open education and promoting for open access
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. So for me, moving from the open access
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and open publications to dealing with my students and because
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back in my country, I was teaching as a
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teaching assistant and here in some classes I do the
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same But I remember that back in my country,
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I when I was teaching, I was forced to
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use some source of books which can be free online
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. But the problem is that they were not always
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the best box in this field. So now we
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have two problems. The cost of books and the
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credibility of the resources. So to move forward with
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this, we need to deal with the issues.
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The cost actually will be related more for them managers
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and administrators, administrators to find sources to fund the
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authors. And I believe that Virginia Tech is having
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one more step towards this, which is I saw
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advertisement that encourage authors to work on open access box
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, and they can find him some way. I'm
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not sure about this, how it works, but
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still they are having something to help with this.
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But the other important thing for me is credibility.
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How can I make sure that this book is reviewed
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and it's really a good book? So one of
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the initiatives was that Okay, we will ask.
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I believe you are doing something like this. We
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will ask professors here Is that in effect, to
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read pots and to commend are both the reviews on
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these books, and then if these books are credible
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enough, we can use this in our classes.
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So moving in these two tracks in parallel, that
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how to fund these education materials and how to make
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sure that they are really incredible. And we can
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trust what's inside and that we can move from our
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, especially my feed the computer science field. Every
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day we have new books, so it would be
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easy to promote for some free access books because we
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have millions of them every day. But being free
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in education and being free in our field doesn't mean
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only you can read this book for free. Because
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the definition of open access and open education materials should
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be, you are free to read and re use
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this material. So here comes the question related to
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in our seas or most the open access classes that
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you can find online and they are promoted as free
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. But when you see the licensing behind these smokes
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, you will find that it's not the definition of
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free, because you can only watch these classes attend
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these classes and get your certificate. But you cannot
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use any part of these classes. You cannot reuse
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them. You cannot put them and you work either
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box or paper whatever. So this is kind of
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, um, a version of free over a minor
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version of freedom. But it's not the free access
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. So this is the third important aspect with that
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besides the coast and credibility. Is that how we
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define free? Actually, the definition of free X
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free books free online material is clear. And I
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believe that maybe you have talked a lot about the
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Creative Commons and this kind of stuff and how they
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give the offer his rights, um, trying to
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get him to be acknowledged that we get this material
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from this open. However, we should make sure
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that for the open access material, it should be
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fully open access material. And currently we find some
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journals like Springer or LCV or this kind of stuff
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. They are offering some subset of their publications and
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they are claiming that it's a free journals. Some
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of them are moving towards a really free obligations,
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but most of them are still on. This small
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version of freedom is that you can access these articles
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but you cannot use it. You cannot say that
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you cannot do anything actually, with them. Just
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read them. So I've been talking about several aspects
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, from open access to open publication to an education
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. But still what I want to conclude and the
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basic ideas that I want and I actually used when
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I promote for open access either was talking with academics
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. My supervisor when I was talking with some of
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those applications that I wanted to publish this paper,
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that it should be all about the value of education
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, the value of the learning process for the cost
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of it. So still, we are here talking
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about the cost and all of these pictures and this
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students who are feeling very sad because their mind is
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still thinking about the coast. So we should help
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moving towards the mentality of thinking about the value.
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And I think that's all what I wanted to do
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. Thanks for listening, and I am not taking
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much more. Yeah, let's take a Let's take
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two questions. If anyone has questions from Mohammed right
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now, maybe sometimes no questions right now, there
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may be some Thank you for listening. Mhm.
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Yeah, and we were good teeth set up here
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. Yeah, in full screen. Yes. There
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. That's close enough. Um, my name is
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he part I teach in the math department to Virginia
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Tech. And of I wanted to talk for a
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few minutes about what I'm calling a rousing success and
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mitigating disaster. And I had this conversation with some
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months ago that I have been in the audience at
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presentations before where the presentation after a while start to
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feel evangelical because everybody is saying how great these resources
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are. And so I do want to talk about
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a negative experience that I had with open source material
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because I think that means the panel seem more honest
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. But I also wanted I didn't want to spend
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the whole 10 minutes talking down about this. I'm
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going to talk about something. I didn't work out
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really well. And then it's been a little time
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to talk about something that didn't work out well and
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sort of contrast. Both of these experiences. Um
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, so, yeah, I'm learning how to use
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your computer here. Mhm. Okay, I'm just
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gonna do it this way a little bit about my
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own background. I've been teaching with open source software
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in my classroom. Since 2000 and four, I've
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been using open access textbooks and what I'm saying of
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nexus textbooks. I mean, somewhere along the,
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um, continuum that Mohammed described it. Not all
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of them were open in terms of reuse and liberties
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and rights. Some of them were only just You
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can download them and read them at no cost.
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But from a security point of view, no cost
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is still important. So open access along some place
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in the continuing Since 2000 and 7, 2007 class
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, I thought was not a Virginia Tech class.
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This was a summer program that I taught somewhere else
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. But I've been using open sacks suspects both here
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at Virginia, Texas 2000 and nine for a total
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of five different courses after, um and I don't
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think that necessarily qualifies me as an expert, but
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it doesn't mean I have some experience with Got it
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The success that I want to talk about it,
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I'm gonna switch over. There's nothing on this line
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about a that in addition to the textbooks, we
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want to supplement the textbooks with interactivity. We want
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to come up with ways of engaging the students because
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we know even if the textbook is free, we
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don't necessarily guarantee that the students are going to read
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the book We would like them to, but they
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don't always read the book, and there are ways
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that we can engage them by having them use software
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outside of the classroom. And what is the software
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programs that have you had a lot of experience with
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? And a lot of positive experience with is a
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software program that came out of Union College in New
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Jersey. Originally, it has been attitude by other
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contributors. Cold, wet work. It is now
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a project of the Mathematical Association of America and right
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, I think I can just do this right.
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Uh huh. See if that works. It will
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ask you to log in, Um, what work
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is and Web based application that generates interactive content,
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generally in the form of homework style questions. But
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you can you can design it to be other types
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of content based on um, parameters, YouTube's and
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it comes with a library of contributed problems from different
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places around the country that are credited when you when
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you bring up one of these problems, so I'm
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going to pull up a couple of these examples.
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This is a problem that I used in my multi
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variable class last semester that asks students to interpret a
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graph in and do some work with the There was
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a credit line up here this little cryptic because it
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is the source of the problem. This one came
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from the University of Michigan. Mm. And so
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contributors to the cooler are acknowledged as we use the
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full okay. And there's, you know, you
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can include graphics. You can include text with the
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problems. You can ask the students to work this
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out. I've actually already entered an answer for this
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one. You can make a solution available to the
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students outside of the either before or after the deadline
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. This case, good answer is negative. 0.61
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So I made it actually the wrong answer up here
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, but giving it the wrong answer gave gave the
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solution to pop ups, and you can see the
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correct correct answer. Um, I'm going to show
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one more problem if I can find it just to
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give in an example of something else that we can
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do. And then I won't talk about a completely
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different experience. That so you have Java disabled on
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your computer, don't you? Okay, You mind
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if I give it permission? Okay. Okay.
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Well, try the upper right hand corner where you
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see a little X. Nothing. Yeah, I've
385
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hired as a red X up in the menu bar
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right there. That one there. Somebody who knows
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how to work one of these things. All right
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, All we does he just run all plug ins
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this time. How about that? Your versions.
390
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:15.170 A:middle L:90%
You need to give me an extra minute for this
391
00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:19.720 A:middle L:90%
. Yeah, Um, this is a feature that
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I like because because you can include in addition to
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text and flat graphics you can use, including interactive
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java applets, where the students can drag and do
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things with the program. And all of this is
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available to download and install and contribute to at no
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charge. By the way, this is the credit
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lines as local. This is a problem that we've
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created here today. This is not part of the
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contributor library. I lifted because I did not know
401
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how to co Java apple. It's I lifted some
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00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:02.079 A:middle L:90%
code from other things. So the code credit everything
403
00:25:02.089 --> 00:25:03.869 A:middle L:90%
. But it was a locally created a problem that
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00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:06.380 A:middle L:90%
we did. And apparently I'm just not going to
405
00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:07.849 A:middle L:90%
get the job is for it to work. So
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00:25:07.539 --> 00:25:14.640 A:middle L:90%
that's okay. That's not a problem. Let me
407
00:25:14.650 --> 00:25:22.130 A:middle L:90%
back up out of here. Yeah. Anyway,
408
00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:23.009 A:middle L:90%
I've had a lot of success with the program except
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00:25:23.009 --> 00:25:30.039 A:middle L:90%
for right here. And my students have responded well
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to it because, um, it gives them something
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to do other than just read a book outside of
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class, and it gives them immediate feedback and some
413
00:25:38.970 --> 00:25:45.410 A:middle L:90%
of the things that we use sometimes publisher based software
414
00:25:45.410 --> 00:25:48.420 A:middle L:90%
to do. I know that Pearson and MacMillan have
415
00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:52.940 A:middle L:90%
have there their software for this as well. This
416
00:25:52.940 --> 00:25:56.049 A:middle L:90%
doesn't require students to purchase a code or an access
417
00:25:56.049 --> 00:26:02.849 A:middle L:90%
or anything like that. Um, I taught history
418
00:26:02.849 --> 00:26:04.779 A:middle L:90%
math course for the past couple of years. This
419
00:26:04.779 --> 00:26:10.549 A:middle L:90%
is my disaster story where used a proprietary textbook in
420
00:26:10.549 --> 00:26:14.240 A:middle L:90%
2013 because it was my first time through the courts
421
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:17.420 A:middle L:90%
and I wanted not to rock the boat. I
422
00:26:17.420 --> 00:26:19.049 A:middle L:90%
wanted to be able to take advantage of my predecessors
423
00:26:21.140 --> 00:26:26.059 A:middle L:90%
work and then having taught the course once that switched
424
00:26:26.059 --> 00:26:30.339 A:middle L:90%
. An open access book of the proprietary book was
425
00:26:30.339 --> 00:26:33.029 A:middle L:90%
by David Burton. And it's an excellent book,
426
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:37.109 A:middle L:90%
but it's a$220 textbook, and so it is
427
00:26:37.109 --> 00:26:41.849 A:middle L:90%
a significant tribute to the$1200 a year spread,
428
00:26:44.609 --> 00:26:45.619 A:middle L:90%
and this is just an example of a two page
429
00:26:45.619 --> 00:26:48.630 A:middle L:90%
spread from the book. What am I bring up
430
00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:52.740 A:middle L:90%
, though, is the little tiny print that's right
431
00:26:52.750 --> 00:26:59.109 A:middle L:90%
here underneath one of the photographs where this is the
432
00:26:59.109 --> 00:27:00.710 A:middle L:90%
section of the book that talks about the Ryan Papyrus
433
00:27:02.009 --> 00:27:04.140 A:middle L:90%
and the Ryan. Papyrus is a property of the
434
00:27:04.150 --> 00:27:08.819 A:middle L:90%
British Museum and the British Museum. Um, keeps
435
00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:11.769 A:middle L:90%
it in a secret vault, and they have their
436
00:27:11.769 --> 00:27:17.660 A:middle L:90%
own curator's that photograph it and licensed photographs out for
437
00:27:17.660 --> 00:27:21.440 A:middle L:90%
other things. And when you pay$220 for this
438
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:25.210 A:middle L:90%
book, you get to pay for access to some
439
00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:27.940 A:middle L:90%
of these resources. Whereas when I switched over to
440
00:27:27.950 --> 00:27:33.859 A:middle L:90%
the open access text, there are almost no photographs
441
00:27:33.859 --> 00:27:37.059 A:middle L:90%
in the book. What, you find our links
442
00:27:37.069 --> 00:27:41.930 A:middle L:90%
to sources that have the photographs in. We could
443
00:27:41.930 --> 00:27:44.119 A:middle L:90%
not include these. We can't afford them when to
444
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.309 A:middle L:90%
make it look free or make the book, Open
445
00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:48.549 A:middle L:90%
License. And so, if you want to look
446
00:27:48.549 --> 00:27:52.230 A:middle L:90%
at these interesting resources, we have to send you
447
00:27:52.230 --> 00:27:56.299 A:middle L:90%
somewhere else. And I did not realize how much
448
00:27:56.299 --> 00:27:57.369 A:middle L:90%
of a burden my students were going to find it
449
00:27:57.380 --> 00:28:00.420 A:middle L:90%
, too. Click and go somewhere else or visit
450
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:03.109 A:middle L:90%
some other website or somewhere else to find the resources
451
00:28:03.109 --> 00:28:07.210 A:middle L:90%
that would have just been right there in the book
452
00:28:07.220 --> 00:28:08.750 A:middle L:90%
. They almost never followed the links because they were
453
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:11.470 A:middle L:90%
trying to read the book quickly and get through their
454
00:28:11.470 --> 00:28:15.109 A:middle L:90%
assignments as fast as they could. And I am
455
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.529 A:middle L:90%
out of time. But so I tried this book
456
00:28:18.539 --> 00:28:22.349 A:middle L:90%
. But the fact that the museums do not license
457
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:26.769 A:middle L:90%
photographs for open source exploits turned out to be a
458
00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:30.250 A:middle L:90%
limiting factor that made this book and less successful to
459
00:28:30.250 --> 00:28:33.670 A:middle L:90%
its form. And so this is a call to
460
00:28:33.670 --> 00:28:37.609 A:middle L:90%
museums. Get on board. All right, I've
461
00:28:37.619 --> 00:28:48.859 A:middle L:90%
got well, absolutely all right questions. I'm surprised
462
00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:56.380 A:middle L:90%
people don't that response. Yes, I think over
463
00:28:56.380 --> 00:28:57.950 A:middle L:90%
the course of the semester, it got weary for
464
00:28:57.950 --> 00:29:00.609 A:middle L:90%
them. I think they did it first. And
465
00:29:00.609 --> 00:29:03.630 A:middle L:90%
then as the semester went on, and as they
466
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.000 A:middle L:90%
had papers and tests and things in other classes,
467
00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:12.140 A:middle L:90%
they just stopped engaging with the book. I think
468
00:29:12.140 --> 00:29:15.910 A:middle L:90%
it was a matter that having to do that every
469
00:29:15.910 --> 00:29:19.029 A:middle L:90%
single time for every section of the book throughout an
470
00:29:19.029 --> 00:29:22.720 A:middle L:90%
entire 15 semester got to be a chore, to
471
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.690 A:middle L:90%
be honest. And I think their willingness to follow
472
00:29:26.690 --> 00:29:36.680 A:middle L:90%
through those links diminished over time. Mm, I
473
00:29:36.690 --> 00:29:38.569 A:middle L:90%
didn't contact the museum. I mean, I have
474
00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:44.390 A:middle L:90%
not contact Museum, but yeah, given the fact
475
00:29:44.390 --> 00:29:48.819 A:middle L:90%
that the other sources that I have have credit lines
476
00:29:48.819 --> 00:29:52.170 A:middle L:90%
for these photographers, photo photographs and these sources,
477
00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:56.859 A:middle L:90%
I think I understand the pattern is, is I
478
00:29:56.859 --> 00:30:00.890 A:middle L:90%
think it's more effective as a teaching. Think that
479
00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:03.529 A:middle L:90%
just switch over to a book that students will engage
480
00:30:03.529 --> 00:30:07.029 A:middle L:90%
with better. I'm sad about it because because I
481
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.660 A:middle L:90%
I do believe in open source and open access materials
482
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:15.569 A:middle L:90%
like this was an example where the extra hoops that
483
00:30:15.569 --> 00:30:21.710 A:middle L:90%
students have to jump through two to make this work
484
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.990 A:middle L:90%
was hoop that they think grew tired of jumping through
485
00:30:27.059 --> 00:30:33.240 A:middle L:90%
. That seems like a lot in August and then
486
00:30:33.250 --> 00:30:37.559 A:middle L:90%
by November, and it's kind of long ago.
487
00:30:37.339 --> 00:30:41.150 A:middle L:90%
Is that you're right. You're right. Engaging as
488
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:45.220 A:middle L:90%
much with that paper. Where is it? At
489
00:30:45.220 --> 00:30:47.789 A:middle L:90%
the end of the semester. Remember examining those pictures
490
00:30:47.789 --> 00:30:52.890 A:middle L:90%
in between those credits? How are you? Ways
491
00:30:52.890 --> 00:30:56.880 A:middle L:90%
that subjectively I I I started noticing. The problem
492
00:30:56.890 --> 00:31:00.140 A:middle L:90%
is that the, um, amount of confusion they
493
00:31:00.150 --> 00:31:06.710 A:middle L:90%
had between two different types of resources were we're different
494
00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:10.509 A:middle L:90%
. So the kinds of questions that they were asking
495
00:31:10.509 --> 00:31:14.170 A:middle L:90%
class changed when the photographs were right there in the
496
00:31:14.180 --> 00:31:18.220 A:middle L:90%
book, um, and discuss it. Somebody would
497
00:31:18.220 --> 00:31:19.740 A:middle L:90%
sometimes bring a question like, Why did they make
498
00:31:19.750 --> 00:31:22.970 A:middle L:90%
this diagram so big? This one so small and
499
00:31:22.970 --> 00:31:25.029 A:middle L:90%
I don't want to answer these questions. But there
500
00:31:25.029 --> 00:31:27.480 A:middle L:90%
were questions that would be asked about the pictures.
501
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:33.200 A:middle L:90%
The pictures sometimes generate interest in questions in the topic
502
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.349 A:middle L:90%
being studied. Um, or why didn't they design
503
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:40.539 A:middle L:90%
this with a handle on both sides That would have
504
00:31:40.539 --> 00:31:42.009 A:middle L:90%
made it made sense. And I'm like, Yeah
505
00:31:42.019 --> 00:31:44.529 A:middle L:90%
, that would have made sense. I don't know
506
00:31:44.529 --> 00:31:48.420 A:middle L:90%
why they did. Not that they would ask questions
507
00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:52.099 A:middle L:90%
. The class that showed me that they were thinking
508
00:31:52.099 --> 00:31:53.430 A:middle L:90%
about what they had seen and not just what they
509
00:31:53.430 --> 00:31:59.769 A:middle L:90%
had run. And those questions started to vanish in
510
00:31:59.779 --> 00:32:05.390 A:middle L:90%
the second quarter. So Okay, so did you
511
00:32:05.390 --> 00:32:10.819 A:middle L:90%
say you're switching? Wow, I am switching I
512
00:32:10.829 --> 00:32:14.849 A:middle L:90%
don't know if I'm switching back to the$220 textbook
513
00:32:14.859 --> 00:32:16.619 A:middle L:90%
yet. I'm looking at a couple of other options
514
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.200 A:middle L:90%
. That is, that's on the table. I
515
00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:22.049 A:middle L:90%
have not eliminated, but I would like to find
516
00:32:22.059 --> 00:32:27.980 A:middle L:90%
some happiness I can find, like,$120.40 dollars
517
00:32:27.990 --> 00:32:30.670 A:middle L:90%
textbooks that has has what I'm looking for. I
518
00:32:30.670 --> 00:32:35.420 A:middle L:90%
would be happy to do that. Oh, I
519
00:32:35.420 --> 00:32:38.130 A:middle L:90%
have about three more months before I have to decide
520
00:32:38.180 --> 00:32:45.480 A:middle L:90%
so of message. Well, then, thanks for
521
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:54.369 A:middle L:90%
your time. Come on, my expert, it
522
00:32:54.369 --> 00:33:07.180 A:middle L:90%
is great. Pertinent from all that's a bonus costume
523
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:13.730 A:middle L:90%
. This is not an open source Task. Thanks
524
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:15.359 A:middle L:90%
. Um, Sunita, for inviting me here.
525
00:33:15.940 --> 00:33:21.119 A:middle L:90%
Thanks for coming. I've been back to check for
526
00:33:21.130 --> 00:33:22.640 A:middle L:90%
. Graduated in 2000 and two. It's been a
527
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:24.579 A:middle L:90%
while since I've been back here. It's fun to
528
00:33:24.589 --> 00:33:28.420 A:middle L:90%
be back in campus again. This pulls up thanks
529
00:33:28.420 --> 00:33:31.109 A:middle L:90%
to Bud Brown for being here, who was on
530
00:33:31.109 --> 00:33:36.730 A:middle L:90%
my control committee and sat with me during graduation,
531
00:33:36.730 --> 00:33:37.809 A:middle L:90%
and my own adviser was unable to make it there
532
00:33:37.819 --> 00:33:40.380 A:middle L:90%
. It's cool. I've seen him quite often as
533
00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:43.880 A:middle L:90%
well. Still, thanks for coming. Um,
534
00:33:43.890 --> 00:33:45.579 A:middle L:90%
So, um, we sort of alluded to this
535
00:33:45.579 --> 00:33:49.700 A:middle L:90%
, and I've given similar presentations, um, within
536
00:33:49.710 --> 00:33:51.430 A:middle L:90%
math meetings. So I thought I would throw a
537
00:33:51.430 --> 00:33:52.980 A:middle L:90%
definition up here that I often use. Um,
538
00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:55.670 A:middle L:90%
it kind of echoes what Mohammed was saying about women
539
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:59.619 A:middle L:90%
. Open textbook is and there's just one little board
540
00:33:59.619 --> 00:34:00.700 A:middle L:90%
that seems contradictory. That says I use the word
541
00:34:00.700 --> 00:34:05.829 A:middle L:90%
freely earlier on Mexico Open doesn't necessarily free. The
542
00:34:05.829 --> 00:34:07.839 A:middle L:90%
idea is that you can have access to things,
543
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:08.960 A:middle L:90%
but you can also still pay for things, so
544
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:12.829 A:middle L:90%
I'll get to it later on. Um, I've
545
00:34:12.829 --> 00:34:15.389 A:middle L:90%
written some open access books. Um, you still
546
00:34:15.389 --> 00:34:17.960 A:middle L:90%
have to buy this if you want this, but
547
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.920 A:middle L:90%
you can have a pdf for free, and all
548
00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:23.679 A:middle L:90%
the source files are online and freely available, and
549
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:27.889 A:middle L:90%
then you can edit them under a creative Commons license
550
00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:30.559 A:middle L:90%
. So, um, in some sense, Oh
551
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:32.349 A:middle L:90%
, get to all these kind of things later on
552
00:34:32.349 --> 00:34:36.019 A:middle L:90%
too. But not everything that I do is completely
553
00:34:36.019 --> 00:34:38.309 A:middle L:90%
altruistic. Frankly, I'd like to make some money
554
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:42.320 A:middle L:90%
to out of all this. So how I got
555
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:44.849 A:middle L:90%
started as I came to be m I in 2000
556
00:34:44.849 --> 00:34:45.869 A:middle L:90%
and 51 of the things they gave me as a
557
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:49.889 A:middle L:90%
new faculty member is they created a new course called
558
00:34:49.889 --> 00:34:52.420 A:middle L:90%
Matrix Algebra. In the math world, there's this
559
00:34:52.420 --> 00:34:53.900 A:middle L:90%
high level thing called linear algebra, and below this
560
00:34:53.909 --> 00:34:55.469 A:middle L:90%
, we call it Matrix algebra, which is from
561
00:34:55.469 --> 00:34:59.170 A:middle L:90%
the nuts and bolts. Without all the theory here
562
00:34:59.610 --> 00:35:01.090 A:middle L:90%
, here's a course description. Flush it out into
563
00:35:01.090 --> 00:35:04.360 A:middle L:90%
a syllabus, find a textbook. We're gonna teach
564
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:06.210 A:middle L:90%
this next fall. So all right, we'll go
565
00:35:06.210 --> 00:35:07.170 A:middle L:90%
for it. And one of the things that I
566
00:35:07.170 --> 00:35:09.610 A:middle L:90%
had difficulty doing is finding a textbook that was suitable
567
00:35:09.610 --> 00:35:13.250 A:middle L:90%
for the course. All I could find a linear
568
00:35:13.250 --> 00:35:15.679 A:middle L:90%
algebra books that cost a lot of money, and
569
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:16.889 A:middle L:90%
I knew that my students would be needing most of
570
00:35:16.889 --> 00:35:21.880 A:middle L:90%
that material. So here at Tech, we have
571
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:24.530 A:middle L:90%
a similar course on 11 14, and they use
572
00:35:24.530 --> 00:35:28.099 A:middle L:90%
some online materials. They wrote their own JavaScript kind
573
00:35:28.099 --> 00:35:30.519 A:middle L:90%
of things. And so I finally email people in
574
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:32.010 A:middle L:90%
my old department and said, Can we just use
575
00:35:32.010 --> 00:35:34.889 A:middle L:90%
your website to teach class? And they said,
576
00:35:34.889 --> 00:35:36.659 A:middle L:90%
Sure, you're all part of the Commonwealth. Go
577
00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:38.329 A:middle L:90%
for it. Um, and then I realized my
578
00:35:38.329 --> 00:35:40.849 A:middle L:90%
students hated it, not because the quality wasn't there
579
00:35:40.849 --> 00:35:43.730 A:middle L:90%
. They just didn't like going online to find their
580
00:35:43.730 --> 00:35:45.780 A:middle L:90%
textbook and so I would give them my own homework
581
00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:47.239 A:middle L:90%
assignments. But I would say, read the book
582
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:50.809 A:middle L:90%
and answer these questions and they just wouldn't do.
583
00:35:50.809 --> 00:35:52.519 A:middle L:90%
It may be the world's changed since 2000 and six
584
00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:55.280 A:middle L:90%
minutes a long time ago in terms of the Web
585
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.420 A:middle L:90%
and things like that. But I started writing the
586
00:35:58.429 --> 00:36:01.079 A:middle L:90%
lecture notes for them, too, to look at
587
00:36:01.090 --> 00:36:02.940 A:middle L:90%
. And then one day I like to Oh,
588
00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:06.010 A:middle L:90%
my lecture notes and I had 80 pages of lecture
589
00:36:06.010 --> 00:36:07.739 A:middle L:90%
notes and that's a lot, Um, that's a
590
00:36:07.739 --> 00:36:12.230 A:middle L:90%
book. And so I went to my department head
591
00:36:12.230 --> 00:36:13.760 A:middle L:90%
and I said, This is important. What's in
592
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:15.550 A:middle L:90%
bold? I said, Okay, I mean,
593
00:36:15.550 --> 00:36:17.630 A:middle L:90%
faculty member, Frankly, not that we want anybody
594
00:36:17.630 --> 00:36:20.340 A:middle L:90%
to feel this way, but the big thing in
595
00:36:20.340 --> 00:36:23.050 A:middle L:90%
my mind is tenure and promotion. So can I
596
00:36:23.050 --> 00:36:28.210 A:middle L:90%
get tenure if I if I work on this as
597
00:36:28.210 --> 00:36:30.820 A:middle L:90%
a book or should I just scrapped this, leave
598
00:36:30.820 --> 00:36:31.900 A:middle L:90%
it at 80 pages, election notes and start doing
599
00:36:31.909 --> 00:36:34.949 A:middle L:90%
research that I'm going to publish in a journal somewhere
600
00:36:34.949 --> 00:36:35.909 A:middle L:90%
? And he said, No, go for it
601
00:36:35.909 --> 00:36:37.800 A:middle L:90%
. This would be great. And so I started
602
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:39.289 A:middle L:90%
working on this, and then when I was done
603
00:36:39.289 --> 00:36:43.230 A:middle L:90%
when I had my book done, looking at publishers
604
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.710 A:middle L:90%
, finding out what the requirements were for publication,
605
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:47.409 A:middle L:90%
how they want to submit things and also started talking
606
00:36:47.409 --> 00:36:51.590 A:middle L:90%
to other authors in the math world that we're in
607
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.420 A:middle L:90%
my region in Virginia, Maryland and things couldn't find
608
00:36:54.420 --> 00:36:58.000 A:middle L:90%
a single math professor who has written a book and
609
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:00.570 A:middle L:90%
published in traditional format that had a pleasant experience.
610
00:37:00.570 --> 00:37:04.699 A:middle L:90%
They all hated. And for a variety of reasons
611
00:37:04.710 --> 00:37:07.260 A:middle L:90%
, Um, but basically, they'll say you will
612
00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:08.619 A:middle L:90%
take something that's very near and dear to your heart
613
00:37:08.630 --> 00:37:09.769 A:middle L:90%
. You're gonna give it to them, and they're
614
00:37:09.769 --> 00:37:12.900 A:middle L:90%
going to change it in ways that you don't want
615
00:37:12.909 --> 00:37:15.789 A:middle L:90%
in order to make it sellable, um, and
616
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:17.019 A:middle L:90%
make it more marketable and all those kinds of things
617
00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:19.420 A:middle L:90%
, And then they're gonna come back to every couple
618
00:37:19.420 --> 00:37:22.059 A:middle L:90%
of years and make you write a new addition and
619
00:37:22.059 --> 00:37:25.119 A:middle L:90%
you're gonna worldly objected to that. But you still
620
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:27.829 A:middle L:90%
need to do it because it's your contract, all
621
00:37:27.829 --> 00:37:30.780 A:middle L:90%
those kinds of things. And I decided that I
622
00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:32.630 A:middle L:90%
was going to self publish it, and I went
623
00:37:32.630 --> 00:37:36.369 A:middle L:90%
through a company called Lulu that I found online.
624
00:37:36.380 --> 00:37:37.420 A:middle L:90%
And then later on, I switched to a different
625
00:37:37.420 --> 00:37:40.480 A:middle L:90%
publisher. That's part of Amazon because everyone knows Amazon
626
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:43.280 A:middle L:90%
, it makes it easy to work with. So
627
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:45.670 A:middle L:90%
that's That's how I got started. Um, when
628
00:37:45.670 --> 00:37:46.670 A:middle L:90%
we look back at the process and I thought this
629
00:37:46.670 --> 00:37:49.809 A:middle L:90%
actually was a, frankly, a great process for
630
00:37:49.809 --> 00:37:52.079 A:middle L:90%
me. Um, even though Matrix algebra is a
631
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:52.719 A:middle L:90%
lower level thing, and now I know it even
632
00:37:52.730 --> 00:37:54.840 A:middle L:90%
better than before because I had to write the book
633
00:37:55.230 --> 00:37:58.719 A:middle L:90%
. I learned a lot of cool stuff about lots
634
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:00.619 A:middle L:90%
of different things. And so we and the department
635
00:38:00.619 --> 00:38:01.170 A:middle L:90%
starts saying, Why don't we do this more often
636
00:38:01.170 --> 00:38:05.489 A:middle L:90%
? I can tailor textbooks, course books to the
637
00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:07.639 A:middle L:90%
needs of my students. And so a colleague of
638
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:09.179 A:middle L:90%
mine then said, Okay, we teach a class
639
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:12.360 A:middle L:90%
about how to use Matt Lab math Cad. Why
640
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.170 A:middle L:90%
don't I just published a small little thing that we
641
00:38:15.170 --> 00:38:16.179 A:middle L:90%
sell them for six bucks if they wanted that kind
642
00:38:16.179 --> 00:38:21.070 A:middle L:90%
of thing, So he jumped into that and so
643
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:22.789 A:middle L:90%
behind. This is this philosophy that says Okay,
644
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.579 A:middle L:90%
there's all this content out there in the world.
645
00:38:25.590 --> 00:38:28.329 A:middle L:90%
I think in terms of math, there's all this
646
00:38:28.329 --> 00:38:30.269 A:middle L:90%
math content that nobody owns. It's just it's the
647
00:38:30.269 --> 00:38:32.539 A:middle L:90%
knowledge that we have accumulated over time. And then
648
00:38:32.539 --> 00:38:35.610 A:middle L:90%
you wanna take a subset of that and write a
649
00:38:35.619 --> 00:38:37.900 A:middle L:90%
book on that. And as the author, you
650
00:38:37.900 --> 00:38:39.340 A:middle L:90%
take all this content and then you take the subset
651
00:38:39.340 --> 00:38:42.000 A:middle L:90%
that you want to write about. Oh, but
652
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.139 A:middle L:90%
wait, you can't choose that you're on your own
653
00:38:44.139 --> 00:38:46.340 A:middle L:90%
because the publisher has their hand on that, saying
654
00:38:46.349 --> 00:38:47.860 A:middle L:90%
We still want to sell this. We've got to
655
00:38:47.860 --> 00:38:51.119 A:middle L:90%
make it marketable, so we will help you choose
656
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:52.920 A:middle L:90%
the content that you want. I talked to a
657
00:38:52.929 --> 00:38:55.190 A:middle L:90%
guy recently. In the last three months, he
658
00:38:55.190 --> 00:38:58.239 A:middle L:90%
said, Yeah, bread and I wrote a book
659
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.059 A:middle L:90%
. We specifically wanted to write this much, and
660
00:39:01.070 --> 00:39:02.739 A:middle L:90%
then we gave it to the publisher. They send
661
00:39:02.739 --> 00:39:06.840 A:middle L:90%
it out to 30 different schools to give us reviews
662
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:08.090 A:middle L:90%
, and all 30 schools basically came back and said
663
00:39:08.099 --> 00:39:12.190 A:middle L:90%
, It's a fantastic book, but it needs this
664
00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:15.559 A:middle L:90%
extra section. But of course, it's 30 extra
665
00:39:15.570 --> 00:39:17.429 A:middle L:90%
different sections that are really needed. So now they're
666
00:39:17.429 --> 00:39:19.960 A:middle L:90%
a little book that they wanted to be. This
667
00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.599 A:middle L:90%
was now much bigger and again, he said.
668
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:23.739 A:middle L:90%
I hate it. It's not what I wanted.
669
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:25.880 A:middle L:90%
So once you figure out what you want for your
670
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:29.820 A:middle L:90%
core content, then the publisher does a great job
671
00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:31.380 A:middle L:90%
package you get for you. In general, textbooks
672
00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:35.190 A:middle L:90%
look great. They're hard cover their high quality.
673
00:39:35.429 --> 00:39:37.340 A:middle L:90%
There's no doubt about that. But then the analogy
674
00:39:37.340 --> 00:39:40.300 A:middle L:90%
for me is Alexis, I am told, is
675
00:39:40.300 --> 00:39:44.239 A:middle L:90%
a very nice car. I've never been in one
676
00:39:44.250 --> 00:39:47.110 A:middle L:90%
right, but it's a very nice car. Isn't
677
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:52.070 A:middle L:90%
worth the money that you pay for? Apparently,
678
00:39:52.070 --> 00:39:53.139 A:middle L:90%
for some people, yes, it is. For
679
00:39:53.139 --> 00:39:55.159 A:middle L:90%
me, it's not because I've chosen not to buy
680
00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:59.639 A:middle L:90%
a Lexus and I have a choice. The text
681
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:00.949 A:middle L:90%
books that we have traditionally are very high quality.
682
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:06.119 A:middle L:90%
Are they worth it? That's a debatable topic,
683
00:40:06.130 --> 00:40:07.880 A:middle L:90%
but there are expensive and that's not debatable. I
684
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:08.969 A:middle L:90%
don't think, and then you give it to the
685
00:40:08.980 --> 00:40:13.380 A:middle L:90%
user. The open workflow says. Everybody owns this
686
00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:16.389 A:middle L:90%
content. The author of The Instructor gets to choose
687
00:40:16.389 --> 00:40:19.550 A:middle L:90%
the core content. If I want to use an
688
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:22.210 A:middle L:90%
open resource like a tailored to my needs and then
689
00:40:22.210 --> 00:40:24.210 A:middle L:90%
you package it and it's in the cloud, I
690
00:40:24.219 --> 00:40:27.500 A:middle L:90%
hire someone to do it for me to print on
691
00:40:27.500 --> 00:40:29.579 A:middle L:90%
demand and then we get it to the user and
692
00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:30.110 A:middle L:90%
then you don't have to get to this part here
693
00:40:30.110 --> 00:40:34.010 A:middle L:90%
where you're supplementing things. You've chosen that long time
694
00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:37.199 A:middle L:90%
ago to make it what you want. Why would
695
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:37.940 A:middle L:90%
you adopt the big thing? We talked about a
696
00:40:37.940 --> 00:40:39.809 A:middle L:90%
lot. Lower cost of students, more control of
697
00:40:39.809 --> 00:40:43.449 A:middle L:90%
the content. I get the things that I want
698
00:40:43.460 --> 00:40:45.239 A:middle L:90%
. If I think this is a great book missing
699
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:46.409 A:middle L:90%
a section, I can have one and that's pretty
700
00:40:46.409 --> 00:40:47.780 A:middle L:90%
cool. It's work, but I can do that
701
00:40:47.789 --> 00:40:51.019 A:middle L:90%
. I want to Better feedback loop. You only
702
00:40:51.019 --> 00:40:52.199 A:middle L:90%
make changes when you need it. Not because the
703
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:54.739 A:middle L:90%
new editions out and you need to make more money
704
00:40:54.809 --> 00:40:57.429 A:middle L:90%
. Why would you get involved? Why would you
705
00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:00.159 A:middle L:90%
write something like this? Um, same two reasons
706
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:01.739 A:middle L:90%
. And then the third one is in bold because
707
00:41:01.750 --> 00:41:04.340 A:middle L:90%
this is sort of where I'm going to become an
708
00:41:04.340 --> 00:41:07.170 A:middle L:90%
evangelist and say there are reasons to get involved Apart
709
00:41:07.170 --> 00:41:13.829 A:middle L:90%
from the cost, this is an incredibly wonderful creative
710
00:41:13.829 --> 00:41:16.710 A:middle L:90%
opportunity for people. I ended up writing in calculus
711
00:41:16.710 --> 00:41:19.909 A:middle L:90%
textbook, and I loved it, absolutely loved it
712
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:22.030 A:middle L:90%
. It's not my creative outlet. Um, if
713
00:41:22.409 --> 00:41:25.250 A:middle L:90%
some people make music that's their creative about that.
714
00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:29.579 A:middle L:90%
I wrote a calculus book strange, but I love
715
00:41:29.590 --> 00:41:31.170 A:middle L:90%
absolutely minute of it. And so you can get
716
00:41:31.170 --> 00:41:35.170 A:middle L:90%
involved too. So eventually we decided to write a
717
00:41:35.170 --> 00:41:37.400 A:middle L:90%
calculus book. Um, just to make a greater
718
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:40.170 A:middle L:90%
impact. And I looked at the world of open
719
00:41:40.170 --> 00:41:43.699 A:middle L:90%
calculus books at the time, and frankly, I
720
00:41:43.699 --> 00:41:45.800 A:middle L:90%
didn't like them for a variety of reasons. I'll
721
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:49.510 A:middle L:90%
skip over them right now. Um and so I
722
00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:52.110 A:middle L:90%
try to do some NSF grants that failed with some
723
00:41:52.110 --> 00:41:54.179 A:middle L:90%
colleagues. And so we finally decided we're going to
724
00:41:54.179 --> 00:41:57.500 A:middle L:90%
write it in House and me and my game makeup
725
00:41:57.500 --> 00:41:59.559 A:middle L:90%
, Of course, releasing So of course releases.
726
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:00.670 A:middle L:90%
So it has some time. Um, we got
727
00:42:00.670 --> 00:42:05.269 A:middle L:90%
started and then after a semester, basically had one
728
00:42:05.269 --> 00:42:07.980 A:middle L:90%
written, um And then I gave a presentation to
729
00:42:07.980 --> 00:42:08.369 A:middle L:90%
the board of Visitors. They said, You know
730
00:42:08.369 --> 00:42:10.340 A:middle L:90%
, that sounds great. We'll give you another course
731
00:42:10.340 --> 00:42:12.789 A:middle L:90%
released to keep on going, and you can look
732
00:42:12.789 --> 00:42:15.230 A:middle L:90%
at the timeline. Don't worry with that, but
733
00:42:15.230 --> 00:42:19.110 A:middle L:90%
eventually Tom, I got all of our calculus sequence
734
00:42:19.110 --> 00:42:22.380 A:middle L:90%
cut 12 and three written, so we broke it
735
00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:23.400 A:middle L:90%
up into smaller chunks. Sweet semester. You only
736
00:42:23.409 --> 00:42:25.739 A:middle L:90%
buy a book that's this big instead of this big
737
00:42:25.750 --> 00:42:28.940 A:middle L:90%
you're carrying within the full time, each one costs
738
00:42:28.940 --> 00:42:32.110 A:middle L:90%
$11 that you can buy through Amazon. Our bookstore
739
00:42:32.110 --> 00:42:35.690 A:middle L:90%
sells for 13 with their markup. Um, and
740
00:42:35.690 --> 00:42:37.030 A:middle L:90%
then the last line there, Um, I asked
741
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:39.000 A:middle L:90%
, am I can I make a modest profit on
742
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:40.360 A:middle L:90%
this? I wasn't going to do it. I
743
00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:43.130 A:middle L:90%
was going to be altruistic for a while, and
744
00:42:43.130 --> 00:42:45.170 A:middle L:90%
then my colleagues kept and saying, You know what
745
00:42:45.179 --> 00:42:46.829 A:middle L:90%
? You really should charge something for this because you
746
00:42:46.829 --> 00:42:50.530 A:middle L:90%
spent a lot of time on this and finally,
747
00:42:50.530 --> 00:42:52.219 A:middle L:90%
frankly, my wife said, Greg, you spent
748
00:42:52.219 --> 00:42:55.199 A:middle L:90%
so much time given at home on this. I
749
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:58.309 A:middle L:90%
would like to see some money out, right?
750
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:00.829 A:middle L:90%
So and I'll just tell you I make about$2
751
00:43:00.829 --> 00:43:02.280 A:middle L:90%
a book. And so it's not a ton of
752
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:05.920 A:middle L:90%
money, but it also is. It's fun on
753
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:07.320 A:middle L:90%
the side, I hope, frankly, to make
754
00:43:07.699 --> 00:43:09.199 A:middle L:90%
, well, not more than$2 of what we're
755
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:13.059 A:middle L:90%
safe. It's not all altruistic. It's not.
756
00:43:13.070 --> 00:43:15.469 A:middle L:90%
It's not all for free. I am actually making
757
00:43:15.469 --> 00:43:16.690 A:middle L:90%
a profit out of this. Um, so this
758
00:43:16.690 --> 00:43:20.059 A:middle L:90%
is just a little quick blurb about Apex calculus just
759
00:43:20.059 --> 00:43:21.590 A:middle L:90%
to say yes, I did a lot of work
760
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:22.190 A:middle L:90%
. I don't worry with all the different things.
761
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:24.050 A:middle L:90%
One thing that's kind of cool in here, though
762
00:43:24.059 --> 00:43:29.210 A:middle L:90%
, um is manipulable graphics. It's in progress.
763
00:43:29.769 --> 00:43:30.210 A:middle L:90%
I've made a website. You need to go there
764
00:43:30.210 --> 00:43:32.159 A:middle L:90%
later on. If you get bored, in which
765
00:43:32.170 --> 00:43:37.250 A:middle L:90%
I do more evangel evangelical things about open books and
766
00:43:37.250 --> 00:43:39.599 A:middle L:90%
things like that, I was surprised that I did
767
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:42.750 A:middle L:90%
. Over my Thanksgiving break, I made this website
768
00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:45.329 A:middle L:90%
and then since then I've gotten a ton of hits
769
00:43:45.329 --> 00:43:45.780 A:middle L:90%
. It's not like a YouTube video where you get
770
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:47.449 A:middle L:90%
millions of hits, but I was surprised. Okay
771
00:43:47.449 --> 00:43:51.500 A:middle L:90%
, I've gotten almost 2000 hits since then. Lots
772
00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:52.650 A:middle L:90%
of downloads. Um, and I know at least
773
00:43:52.650 --> 00:43:55.469 A:middle L:90%
two schools. I think they never actually talk to
774
00:43:55.469 --> 00:43:58.150 A:middle L:90%
me personally, but I'm pretty sure they found out
775
00:43:58.150 --> 00:44:00.010 A:middle L:90%
about the book because of the website, and they're
776
00:44:00.010 --> 00:44:01.139 A:middle L:90%
using the book now, so it's a pretty quick
777
00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:04.969 A:middle L:90%
turnaround since December. I was. I was floored
778
00:44:04.969 --> 00:44:07.289 A:middle L:90%
. Frankly, Um, and then there's a couple
779
00:44:07.289 --> 00:44:08.940 A:middle L:90%
of miscellaneous things. I'm pretty much out of time
780
00:44:08.949 --> 00:44:10.889 A:middle L:90%
to go quick. It's a lot of work.
781
00:44:10.889 --> 00:44:14.420 A:middle L:90%
No doubt I might not have gotten started if I
782
00:44:14.420 --> 00:44:15.789 A:middle L:90%
knew how much work it was gonna be, but
783
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:20.300 A:middle L:90%
it was well worth it. Um, we need
784
00:44:20.300 --> 00:44:24.809 A:middle L:90%
to make sure that it's each institution is different,
785
00:44:25.889 --> 00:44:29.110 A:middle L:90%
but it should be recognized. The work that you
786
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:30.519 A:middle L:90%
do for an open book should be recognized towards 10
787
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:32.760 A:middle L:90%
year promotion, and that's ties. And then you
788
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:36.539 A:middle L:90%
need to have a measure. Equality somehow. And
789
00:44:36.539 --> 00:44:37.389 A:middle L:90%
that's how I kind of got interested in the open
790
00:44:37.389 --> 00:44:39.340 A:middle L:90%
things. Well, where is the way of peer
791
00:44:39.340 --> 00:44:45.059 A:middle L:90%
review? Setting collaboration should be encouraged. We try
792
00:44:45.059 --> 00:44:45.880 A:middle L:90%
to get lots of people to work together on the
793
00:44:45.889 --> 00:44:49.320 A:middle L:90%
calculus sequence. Lots of people told me they are
794
00:44:49.329 --> 00:44:52.639 A:middle L:90%
interested in when push came to shove, everyone said
795
00:44:52.650 --> 00:44:53.980 A:middle L:90%
, Actually pretty busy right now, not everybody.
796
00:44:53.989 --> 00:44:57.309 A:middle L:90%
Most people said I'm too busy and so the number
797
00:44:57.309 --> 00:45:00.940 A:middle L:90%
of people narrowed down to me doing 98% of the
798
00:45:00.940 --> 00:45:01.809 A:middle L:90%
work and a handful of people doing a couple of
799
00:45:01.809 --> 00:45:05.309 A:middle L:90%
things. I understand everyone's busy, but I would
800
00:45:05.309 --> 00:45:07.699 A:middle L:90%
like to see that change, and it's rewarding this
801
00:45:07.699 --> 00:45:10.170 A:middle L:90%
part here. I think it's pretty cool Opportunity for
802
00:45:10.179 --> 00:45:14.949 A:middle L:90%
innovation Bound. This is my last slide here.
803
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:16.769 A:middle L:90%
Um, we're working on this for for the fall
804
00:45:16.780 --> 00:45:20.809 A:middle L:90%
. Here is the intersection of two planes, and
805
00:45:20.809 --> 00:45:22.409 A:middle L:90%
there's this little line right here, which is defining
806
00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:24.809 A:middle L:90%
the intersection of two planes, and it looks cool
807
00:45:25.050 --> 00:45:27.989 A:middle L:90%
. It's nice to have these graphics here, but
808
00:45:27.989 --> 00:45:30.530 A:middle L:90%
we're working on in the pdf. Now. Just
809
00:45:30.539 --> 00:45:31.489 A:middle L:90%
click on it and then you can move things around
810
00:45:31.489 --> 00:45:35.260 A:middle L:90%
and say, Oh, that's what's going on.
811
00:45:35.269 --> 00:45:37.110 A:middle L:90%
Right? Okay, that makes more sense to click
812
00:45:37.110 --> 00:45:38.849 A:middle L:90%
on this one here. And then I can see
813
00:45:38.849 --> 00:45:40.469 A:middle L:90%
what the surfaces, and you can see this little
814
00:45:40.469 --> 00:45:43.699 A:middle L:90%
curve part of a sign curve. You spin around
815
00:45:43.699 --> 00:45:45.420 A:middle L:90%
the Z axis, and I get this surface.
816
00:45:45.090 --> 00:45:49.199 A:middle L:90%
Traditional textbook companies can't do this yet because they're not
817
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:51.760 A:middle L:90%
sure how to make this electronically available that you don't
818
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:54.000 A:middle L:90%
just give to everybody. Um, And then I
819
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:57.289 A:middle L:90%
say, Give it to anybody you want. And
820
00:45:57.289 --> 00:45:59.840 A:middle L:90%
again, I'm not completely altruistic about this. Give
821
00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:01.260 A:middle L:90%
it to everyone you want. And I'm pretty sure
822
00:46:01.269 --> 00:46:04.650 A:middle L:90%
that there's a certain population that's still going to buy
823
00:46:04.650 --> 00:46:07.010 A:middle L:90%
the printed copy. And I still get I still
824
00:46:07.010 --> 00:46:08.039 A:middle L:90%
get something in return. But I can do things
825
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:12.340 A:middle L:90%
without worrying about the cost that they are worried about
826
00:46:12.570 --> 00:46:14.900 A:middle L:90%
. And I can go on and on, got
827
00:46:14.900 --> 00:46:17.349 A:middle L:90%
stuff, but I'll stop. That's what contact information
828
00:46:17.349 --> 00:46:19.809 A:middle L:90%
. If you want to talk more and then,
829
00:46:19.820 --> 00:46:22.570 A:middle L:90%
um, there are some places. These are specifically
830
00:46:22.570 --> 00:46:25.059 A:middle L:90%
the first last three are all about math places,
831
00:46:25.059 --> 00:46:27.909 A:middle L:90%
but college open textbooks is a great place to go
832
00:46:27.909 --> 00:46:30.920 A:middle L:90%
to find more educational. Alright, went over my
833
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:34.130 A:middle L:90%
time. But what kind of questions can I answer
834
00:46:34.130 --> 00:46:38.409 A:middle L:90%
for you? She having mhm? Yes. Teacher
835
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:42.269 A:middle L:90%
. Did you have a review process for group of
836
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:44.329 A:middle L:90%
built in? Or was that something you got from
837
00:46:44.329 --> 00:46:49.079 A:middle L:90%
your colleagues? Yes. Mhm. Um, yes
838
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:51.150 A:middle L:90%
and yes. Um, one thing that I did
839
00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:52.760 A:middle L:90%
is, um there was a colleague at a school
840
00:46:52.769 --> 00:46:55.190 A:middle L:90%
in Ohio that I would send material to, and
841
00:46:55.190 --> 00:46:57.849 A:middle L:90%
she would edit it for us. And so I
842
00:46:57.849 --> 00:47:00.760 A:middle L:90%
had at least someone an external person editing for me
843
00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:01.880 A:middle L:90%
, telling me whether I was on track or not
844
00:47:01.889 --> 00:47:04.710 A:middle L:90%
. One thing that I found out about the traditional
845
00:47:04.710 --> 00:47:07.019 A:middle L:90%
publishing world is that there really isn't that great of
846
00:47:07.019 --> 00:47:09.860 A:middle L:90%
a of a vetting process. Either. We send
847
00:47:09.860 --> 00:47:13.000 A:middle L:90%
the book out to lots of people to look at
848
00:47:13.010 --> 00:47:14.369 A:middle L:90%
, and they'll tell us whether they like it or
849
00:47:14.369 --> 00:47:16.829 A:middle L:90%
not. It's not any one of them actually has
850
00:47:16.829 --> 00:47:20.949 A:middle L:90%
to look through all the theorems. It's just it's
851
00:47:20.949 --> 00:47:22.599 A:middle L:90%
almost crowdsourcing, um, in in some way and
852
00:47:22.610 --> 00:47:24.219 A:middle L:90%
people do get paid. I was I was actually
853
00:47:24.219 --> 00:47:25.440 A:middle L:90%
paid at one point in time to do that for
854
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:29.289 A:middle L:90%
another textbook to look through it. Um, but
855
00:47:29.289 --> 00:47:30.050 A:middle L:90%
when I talked to those authors, they said the
856
00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:34.030 A:middle L:90%
feedback we got from those people was was not that
857
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:37.039 A:middle L:90%
great. Honestly, Um, and they would catch
858
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:38.219 A:middle L:90%
typos, but they wouldn't necessarily do a whole lot
859
00:47:38.230 --> 00:47:39.900 A:middle L:90%
. And they sort of just assumed it was already
860
00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:43.559 A:middle L:90%
okay. Um, it was surprised me. I
861
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:45.210 A:middle L:90%
kind of thought there was someone who was just very
862
00:47:45.210 --> 00:47:49.800 A:middle L:90%
closely looking into everything. And it turns out a
863
00:47:49.809 --> 00:47:52.170 A:middle L:90%
peer reviewed paper has far more peer review than a
864
00:47:52.179 --> 00:47:53.789 A:middle L:90%
textbook does, at least in the mouth role.
865
00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:58.519 A:middle L:90%
So, um, and then my colleagues come by
866
00:47:58.530 --> 00:48:00.550 A:middle L:90%
and there was a place where one of my theories
867
00:48:00.550 --> 00:48:02.340 A:middle L:90%
as long I I made a mistake and they said
868
00:48:02.349 --> 00:48:05.340 A:middle L:90%
, This isn't right, Thank you. And then
869
00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:06.940 A:middle L:90%
they come by all the time. There was too
870
00:48:06.940 --> 00:48:08.250 A:middle L:90%
many typos. I thought I had them all cleared
871
00:48:08.250 --> 00:48:10.340 A:middle L:90%
out. And then I started giving extra credit to
872
00:48:10.340 --> 00:48:13.320 A:middle L:90%
my students to find typos, and they found a
873
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:15.360 A:middle L:90%
lot more. They read the book. I was
874
00:48:15.369 --> 00:48:17.440 A:middle L:90%
like, That's pretty cool, you know? Yeah
875
00:48:17.449 --> 00:48:21.400 A:middle L:90%
. So kind of thinking about leaving some in there
876
00:48:21.409 --> 00:48:22.119 A:middle L:90%
just to say you find them, I'll give them
877
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:28.159 A:middle L:90%
extra credits and then I haven't planted just they would
878
00:48:28.170 --> 00:48:30.639 A:middle L:90%
find it and read the book. Yes, sir
879
00:48:30.650 --> 00:48:34.269 A:middle L:90%
. I'm really interested in the tenure conversation. You
880
00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:38.000 A:middle L:90%
had better department. And I wonder, uh,
881
00:48:39.769 --> 00:48:44.599 A:middle L:90%
I wonder about the differences between graceful idea, my
882
00:48:44.610 --> 00:48:47.469 A:middle L:90%
great research institution. Right? Right. And based
883
00:48:47.469 --> 00:48:51.530 A:middle L:90%
on your experiences, you know, right, Would
884
00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:53.409 A:middle L:90%
this have qualified you for tenure to place like Virginia
885
00:48:53.420 --> 00:48:57.460 A:middle L:90%
Tech? This one? I think the short answer
886
00:48:57.460 --> 00:49:00.130 A:middle L:90%
is no. I think, um, that's just
887
00:49:00.139 --> 00:49:02.599 A:middle L:90%
the truth of the matter that we are not a
888
00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:06.079 A:middle L:90%
research one institution, and so we put value in
889
00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:08.039 A:middle L:90%
different places. But I also think that there are
890
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:15.500 A:middle L:90%
lots of good quality for for your college is that
891
00:49:15.869 --> 00:49:20.579 A:middle L:90%
are trying to become research one where they try to
892
00:49:20.579 --> 00:49:22.750 A:middle L:90%
push their faculty to publish papers, and that's not
893
00:49:22.750 --> 00:49:25.150 A:middle L:90%
where their heart should be. And I think BMI
894
00:49:25.150 --> 00:49:30.840 A:middle L:90%
has had that internal quandary of who are we as
895
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:31.750 A:middle L:90%
a school. And there are some people that are
896
00:49:31.750 --> 00:49:35.019 A:middle L:90%
pushing us to publish more and more, and other
897
00:49:35.019 --> 00:49:37.679 A:middle L:90%
people saying our focus should be on our case,
898
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:40.489 A:middle L:90%
pocket debts in teaching, and so there should be
899
00:49:40.489 --> 00:49:43.489 A:middle L:90%
some sort of peer review to this. Otherwise,
900
00:49:43.489 --> 00:49:46.869 A:middle L:90%
it's just teaching materials at the same time. Um
901
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:51.219 A:middle L:90%
, this is a worthwhile endeavor, and you're bringing
902
00:49:51.219 --> 00:49:53.829 A:middle L:90%
something quality to the school. So that's the trick
903
00:49:53.829 --> 00:49:59.010 A:middle L:90%
to to, I think Regina attack. A lot
904
00:49:59.010 --> 00:50:00.710 A:middle L:90%
of energy is spent trying to get tenure. And
905
00:50:00.710 --> 00:50:02.670 A:middle L:90%
then once you have your tenure and once you're promoted
906
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:06.980 A:middle L:90%
, then sometimes your energy wings and I think there
907
00:50:06.989 --> 00:50:10.280 A:middle L:90%
should be some sort of reward. Still, for
908
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:14.789 A:middle L:90%
doing this kind of stuff. Some sort of evaluation
909
00:50:14.789 --> 00:50:17.409 A:middle L:90%
says this is still worthwhile. And I don't know
910
00:50:17.409 --> 00:50:21.210 A:middle L:90%
how to attack another research. One stools that figure
911
00:50:21.210 --> 00:50:22.869 A:middle L:90%
that out, I think within, like, IBM
912
00:50:22.869 --> 00:50:28.889 A:middle L:90%
and other schools, there should be rewarded. Yeah
913
00:50:29.260 --> 00:50:36.579 A:middle L:90%
, but two questions. I'll sit down. Thanks
914
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:45.820 A:middle L:90%
. Thanks. I've looked through them. I didn't
915
00:50:45.820 --> 00:50:52.980 A:middle L:90%
want No thanks, Mark. All right, well
916
00:50:52.980 --> 00:50:54.449 A:middle L:90%
, we're waiting for Peter to come up, but
917
00:50:54.449 --> 00:50:58.239 A:middle L:90%
you're going to say something. Oh, okay.
918
00:50:58.250 --> 00:51:01.070 A:middle L:90%
I just wanted to add on the 10 year conversation
919
00:51:01.460 --> 00:51:07.610 A:middle L:90%
we have seen faculty dependent on the department sometimes receive
920
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:10.760 A:middle L:90%
credit for offering open materials. I don't know if
921
00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:14.340 A:middle L:90%
it's a departmental decision or if that's at the college
922
00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:17.289 A:middle L:90%
level, but I think that's something you want to
923
00:51:17.300 --> 00:51:22.079 A:middle L:90%
chat about? Okay, sure. Does that sound
924
00:51:23.659 --> 00:51:28.530 A:middle L:90%
right? Sorry I lost in the process and I
925
00:51:28.530 --> 00:51:31.159 A:middle L:90%
have my notes on this gigantic screen. But since
926
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:36.510 A:middle L:90%
I turned 50 it got smaller. So So I
927
00:51:36.510 --> 00:51:37.130 A:middle L:90%
want to kind of build on some of the things
928
00:51:37.130 --> 00:51:38.880 A:middle L:90%
that have already been said and take us in a
929
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:45.050 A:middle L:90%
slightly different direction. I do like Mohammed's differentiation between
930
00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:49.469 A:middle L:90%
free and free. Some things are free. Some
931
00:51:49.469 --> 00:51:52.619 A:middle L:90%
things are really free. So part of as this
932
00:51:52.630 --> 00:51:54.579 A:middle L:90%
field develops, we need to figure out what is
933
00:51:54.579 --> 00:51:58.510 A:middle L:90%
free, what's really free. And then, as
934
00:51:58.510 --> 00:52:00.920 A:middle L:90%
Greg was talking about, where should people be getting
935
00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:02.739 A:middle L:90%
credit and should be just kind of free? And
936
00:52:02.739 --> 00:52:07.480 A:middle L:90%
so oftentimes, the$250 textbook something becomes$10 to
937
00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:10.659 A:middle L:90%
support other people who created these things Back in 2000
938
00:52:10.670 --> 00:52:13.869 A:middle L:90%
and five, Just a little bit of brief history
939
00:52:14.250 --> 00:52:17.010 A:middle L:90%
created the first international journal and teaching and learning in
940
00:52:17.010 --> 00:52:20.199 A:middle L:90%
higher education. I didn't know it was the first
941
00:52:20.199 --> 00:52:22.380 A:middle L:90%
one until somebody later on, by the way,
942
00:52:22.949 --> 00:52:27.199 A:middle L:90%
it was open. It's now a creative Commons access
943
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.360 A:middle L:90%
so you can do free whatever you want. You
944
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:31.199 A:middle L:90%
don't pay for it when you submit it or when
945
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:35.349 A:middle L:90%
we publish it. We published it for about 10
946
00:52:35.349 --> 00:52:37.059 A:middle L:90%
years, and now it's moved on to the University
947
00:52:37.059 --> 00:52:39.170 A:middle L:90%
of Georgia. There's only so many years you can
948
00:52:39.170 --> 00:52:43.090 A:middle L:90%
run a general, all right, that's not Uh
949
00:52:43.090 --> 00:52:45.150 A:middle L:90%
huh. So we've also started by having thought about
950
00:52:45.150 --> 00:52:47.869 A:middle L:90%
this. And until I was the the talk,
951
00:52:49.250 --> 00:52:52.280 A:middle L:90%
I started a conference seven years ago that's free and
952
00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:54.219 A:middle L:90%
open to everybody who wants to come and essence on
953
00:52:54.219 --> 00:52:58.559 A:middle L:90%
sense. That's open source. The proceedings are freed
954
00:52:58.570 --> 00:53:00.769 A:middle L:90%
with those online, and so the only thing pay
955
00:53:00.769 --> 00:53:05.550 A:middle L:90%
for us getting here. So so at some level
956
00:53:05.929 --> 00:53:08.630 A:middle L:90%
, the open access free issue, I thought was
957
00:53:08.630 --> 00:53:14.099 A:middle L:90%
fascinating. And then thinking about open educational resources in
958
00:53:14.099 --> 00:53:16.900 A:middle L:90%
the whole open movement, thinking beyond textbooks to things
959
00:53:16.900 --> 00:53:20.519 A:middle L:90%
that are online, from activities people can use to
960
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:25.460 A:middle L:90%
lesson plans, thinking about various resources, such and
961
00:53:25.460 --> 00:53:29.769 A:middle L:90%
such articles or experiments, assessments, components of the
962
00:53:29.780 --> 00:53:31.360 A:middle L:90%
teaching and learning process. So it's one thing to
963
00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:36.900 A:middle L:90%
think about books as being mostly content. The only
964
00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:38.500 A:middle L:90%
things that really like that he's talking about is using
965
00:53:38.510 --> 00:53:42.500 A:middle L:90%
textbooks as a form of processing the way of getting
966
00:53:42.500 --> 00:53:45.000 A:middle L:90%
students interact to interact with information. But there's still
967
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:47.570 A:middle L:90%
a fundamental component of context when we start talking about
968
00:53:47.579 --> 00:53:51.559 A:middle L:90%
textbooks. And so one of the things that the
969
00:53:51.570 --> 00:53:53.119 A:middle L:90%
open movement has done is a lot of people who
970
00:53:53.130 --> 00:53:57.969 A:middle L:90%
are publishing up in textbooks realize they've got to have
971
00:53:57.969 --> 00:54:00.860 A:middle L:90%
something more than just content because they are up against
972
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:05.559 A:middle L:90%
textbook publishers who have a huge advantage on them.
973
00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:07.400 A:middle L:90%
In a lot of schools, there's certain authors that
974
00:54:07.409 --> 00:54:12.840 A:middle L:90%
people want care students to read. Yeah, yeah
975
00:54:14.269 --> 00:54:16.380 A:middle L:90%
, come here, understand them And so that creates
976
00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:19.460 A:middle L:90%
an issue. So one of the things that a
977
00:54:19.460 --> 00:54:22.039 A:middle L:90%
lot of the publishers and open world done because they
978
00:54:22.050 --> 00:54:24.690 A:middle L:90%
really tried to work in a lot of processing,
979
00:54:24.699 --> 00:54:28.230 A:middle L:90%
getting students to understand. So if we look at
980
00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:30.469 A:middle L:90%
this the open movement from a teaching and learning perspective
981
00:54:31.340 --> 00:54:34.969 A:middle L:90%
, leaving behind costs just a little bit because cost
982
00:54:34.969 --> 00:54:37.409 A:middle L:90%
is important. The student doesn't buy a textbook at
983
00:54:37.409 --> 00:54:38.260 A:middle L:90%
all, or they don't buy a textbook until three
984
00:54:38.260 --> 00:54:40.780 A:middle L:90%
or four weeks, and then they're gonna be missing
985
00:54:40.780 --> 00:54:44.900 A:middle L:90%
some of the activities interaction processing that they might otherwise
986
00:54:44.909 --> 00:54:46.079 A:middle L:90%
do. When we think about what we're looking for
987
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:47.889 A:middle L:90%
, our students, we want them to build flexible
988
00:54:47.889 --> 00:54:50.909 A:middle L:90%
knowledge. I want them to build knowledge that goes
989
00:54:50.920 --> 00:54:53.500 A:middle L:90%
beyond solving specific problems in specific ways that they can
990
00:54:53.510 --> 00:54:58.260 A:middle L:90%
use this knowledge across domains, in life or across
991
00:54:58.260 --> 00:55:00.420 A:middle L:90%
various problems. In order to do that, five
992
00:55:00.420 --> 00:55:01.510 A:middle L:90%
things have to happen. They have to learn the
993
00:55:01.510 --> 00:55:05.269 A:middle L:90%
information deeply. You have to learn under various context
994
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:06.699 A:middle L:90%
. We have to learn it for various purposes.
995
00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:08.010 A:middle L:90%
You have to learn that a principal level, and
996
00:55:08.010 --> 00:55:10.699 A:middle L:90%
then they have to become owners of. They have
997
00:55:10.699 --> 00:55:13.869 A:middle L:90%
to be aware and be in control of what they
998
00:55:13.880 --> 00:55:15.090 A:middle L:90%
know and what they can do. One of the
999
00:55:15.099 --> 00:55:17.519 A:middle L:90%
things the open market does for us is that allows
1000
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:21.880 A:middle L:90%
us to access various tools and various information so that
1001
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:24.079 A:middle L:90%
our students can experience them differently. So if students
1002
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:27.920 A:middle L:90%
have spent$200 on textbook, that's the only view
1003
00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:30.260 A:middle L:90%
they see unless we bring in other views. Well
1004
00:55:30.260 --> 00:55:32.480 A:middle L:90%
, if I can grab the Greg's books and say
1005
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:35.320 A:middle L:90%
, Well, here's a book and you can access
1006
00:55:35.320 --> 00:55:37.150 A:middle L:90%
this for$15 and then here's another one you can
1007
00:55:37.150 --> 00:55:39.440 A:middle L:90%
access for$5. Here's another one that you can
1008
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:44.489 A:middle L:90%
access free multiple views of calculus and problem solving,
1009
00:55:44.500 --> 00:55:45.170 A:middle L:90%
and I can use those in my class to get
1010
00:55:45.170 --> 00:55:49.039 A:middle L:90%
students to interact in ways they couldn't before when we
1011
00:55:49.039 --> 00:55:51.059 A:middle L:90%
all bought the same. Can I make a buck
1012
00:55:51.539 --> 00:55:52.940 A:middle L:90%
? And now I feel like in some ways I've
1013
00:55:52.949 --> 00:55:54.400 A:middle L:90%
got to stay with that all the way through.
1014
00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:59.050 A:middle L:90%
And so the open market gives us access to looking
1015
00:55:59.050 --> 00:56:00.460 A:middle L:90%
at information in different ways. Gives us access to
1016
00:56:00.460 --> 00:56:04.880 A:middle L:90%
looking at information within different domains, so you can
1017
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:07.539 A:middle L:90%
imagine a calculus book where all the examples are coming
1018
00:56:07.539 --> 00:56:09.409 A:middle L:90%
from. The science is very specific sciences, because
1019
00:56:09.420 --> 00:56:14.090 A:middle L:90%
that's what we're training or coming from engineering or coming
1020
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:16.179 A:middle L:90%
from. I'm not sure how you do calculus in
1021
00:56:16.179 --> 00:56:19.349 A:middle L:90%
some of the social sciences, but there's gotta be
1022
00:56:19.349 --> 00:56:21.949 A:middle L:90%
a way there. We go to my dad's so
1023
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:22.769 A:middle L:90%
that would make sense. And it could be Well
1024
00:56:22.769 --> 00:56:25.159 A:middle L:90%
, here's the basic content. And then here's a
1025
00:56:25.170 --> 00:56:29.039 A:middle L:90%
primer in different topics. Okay, well, that's
1026
00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:31.769 A:middle L:90%
going to be hard for a regular publisher, because
1027
00:56:31.769 --> 00:56:34.280 A:middle L:90%
then they're gonna have to somehow figure out how to
1028
00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:36.840 A:middle L:90%
package this in ways that they can sell it.
1029
00:56:37.329 --> 00:56:38.940 A:middle L:90%
And having worked with books as well, One of
1030
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:42.050 A:middle L:90%
things I've figured out is they don't want to work
1031
00:56:42.050 --> 00:56:44.090 A:middle L:90%
on a book that's not going to sell. And
1032
00:56:44.090 --> 00:56:45.659 A:middle L:90%
so they say, I got this great calculus book
1033
00:56:46.230 --> 00:56:50.449 A:middle L:90%
just for social science. We can sell at least
1034
00:56:50.449 --> 00:56:52.289 A:middle L:90%
15 of them. It's not a lot of people
1035
00:56:52.289 --> 00:56:55.090 A:middle L:90%
knocking at your door, but it might be exactly
1036
00:56:55.090 --> 00:56:59.590 A:middle L:90%
what's needed. And so if we start to create
1037
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:01.250 A:middle L:90%
pieces that we, as educators, can put together
1038
00:57:01.929 --> 00:57:07.440 A:middle L:90%
to enhance the cognitive social behavioral affective processing, the
1039
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:08.380 A:middle L:90%
learning of our students, that's going to be a
1040
00:57:08.380 --> 00:57:10.960 A:middle L:90%
huge advantage. And there's a lot of people out
1041
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:14.630 A:middle L:90%
there who are excited about these kinds of things that
1042
00:57:14.630 --> 00:57:15.829 A:middle L:90%
are writing their own books. So we have three
1043
00:57:15.829 --> 00:57:20.099 A:middle L:90%
people here who are creating these resources, not because
1044
00:57:20.099 --> 00:57:22.090 A:middle L:90%
they're going to be on the New York Times bestseller
1045
00:57:22.090 --> 00:57:23.869 A:middle L:90%
list because they see a use for it. And
1046
00:57:23.869 --> 00:57:25.449 A:middle L:90%
I like the whole idea that I think at some
1047
00:57:25.449 --> 00:57:28.929 A:middle L:90%
point it's okay to get paid a little bit of
1048
00:57:28.929 --> 00:57:30.800 A:middle L:90%
money for all this work. I was looking at
1049
00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:31.650 A:middle L:90%
time. I'm like, That's two years of work
1050
00:57:31.929 --> 00:57:35.380 A:middle L:90%
. Yeah, I can see$2 a book that
1051
00:57:35.380 --> 00:57:37.340 A:middle L:90%
seems more than reasonable, but there are things that
1052
00:57:37.340 --> 00:57:40.239 A:middle L:90%
we're willing to do within the educational sphere that publishers
1053
00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:44.010 A:middle L:90%
aren't because we work for different reasons. There is
1054
00:57:44.010 --> 00:57:45.929 A:middle L:90%
a level of altruism. There is a level that
1055
00:57:45.940 --> 00:57:47.849 A:middle L:90%
we care about our students learning. It's not just
1056
00:57:47.849 --> 00:57:51.900 A:middle L:90%
about the bottom line. Now, this is kind
1057
00:57:51.900 --> 00:57:53.409 A:middle L:90%
of a young area, and so obviously we haven't
1058
00:57:53.409 --> 00:57:55.679 A:middle L:90%
really figured the whole thing out, so we need
1059
00:57:55.679 --> 00:57:59.340 A:middle L:90%
to start thinking about this in a creative fashion.
1060
00:58:00.510 --> 00:58:01.539 A:middle L:90%
NSF might not be interested in funding it, but
1061
00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:06.519 A:middle L:90%
would you attack? And Andy and Cuba might all
1062
00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:09.039 A:middle L:90%
want to come together and create resources for certain areas
1063
00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:15.329 A:middle L:90%
that we can then leverage beyond just the status text
1064
00:58:15.329 --> 00:58:19.030 A:middle L:90%
books that we have. When we think about fostering
1065
00:58:19.030 --> 00:58:22.110 A:middle L:90%
teaching and learning, we have to think beyond the
1066
00:58:22.110 --> 00:58:24.530 A:middle L:90%
content to think about how our students processing and why
1067
00:58:24.530 --> 00:58:27.150 A:middle L:90%
is that are meaningful so that their hearts are.
1068
00:58:28.119 --> 00:58:30.610 A:middle L:90%
And then we need to integrate that into teaching and
1069
00:58:30.610 --> 00:58:32.230 A:middle L:90%
learning approach. That makes sense. So we need
1070
00:58:32.230 --> 00:58:35.460 A:middle L:90%
to have a sense of other learning outcomes and indicators
1071
00:58:35.460 --> 00:58:39.260 A:middle L:90%
are you then need to figure out what instructional strategies
1072
00:58:39.260 --> 00:58:40.840 A:middle L:90%
we're going to use, how we're going to assess
1073
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:44.940 A:middle L:90%
it. Mhm open source can help with all of
1074
00:58:44.940 --> 00:58:46.800 A:middle L:90%
that. So strategies. I use all sorts of
1075
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:52.079 A:middle L:90%
experiments in my educational psychology teaching that I give out
1076
00:58:52.090 --> 00:58:53.030 A:middle L:90%
every time I teach and I stick them online and
1077
00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:54.610 A:middle L:90%
people use them. And I come back to a
1078
00:58:54.610 --> 00:58:57.210 A:middle L:90%
different conference saying, You know, I use that
1079
00:58:57.210 --> 00:59:00.190 A:middle L:90%
activity used That's how it ought to be. I
1080
00:59:00.190 --> 00:59:01.170 A:middle L:90%
need to teach Jack's who's got a good activity for
1081
00:59:01.170 --> 00:59:04.800 A:middle L:90%
that? Because right now they're all hidden. They're
1082
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:07.360 A:middle L:90%
either in our computers or they're somewhere in scholar.
1083
00:59:07.369 --> 00:59:10.070 A:middle L:90%
People can't access them, so I need a good
1084
00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:14.280 A:middle L:90%
differential equations activity. I don't know what that would
1085
00:59:14.289 --> 00:59:16.150 A:middle L:90%
be. Somebody, that somebody has a good interactive
1086
00:59:16.150 --> 00:59:19.719 A:middle L:90%
activity for that. That might be nice to see
1087
00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:22.019 A:middle L:90%
how they're doing to see how they're sharing. So
1088
00:59:22.019 --> 00:59:24.139 A:middle L:90%
what kind of instructional materials will be available? And
1089
00:59:24.139 --> 00:59:27.809 A:middle L:90%
then the last one would be assessment At some point
1090
00:59:27.809 --> 00:59:29.650 A:middle L:90%
. We need to know what students know and what
1091
00:59:29.659 --> 00:59:31.519 A:middle L:90%
they do and what they care about, and oftentimes
1092
00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:35.130 A:middle L:90%
we get locked into certain types of assessments. But
1093
00:59:35.130 --> 00:59:37.800 A:middle L:90%
there's people out there were using really interesting assessments that
1094
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:40.949 A:middle L:90%
sometimes we only hear about conferences. The guy who
1095
00:59:40.949 --> 00:59:44.659 A:middle L:90%
said he heard that four or five years ago because
1096
00:59:44.670 --> 00:59:47.030 A:middle L:90%
a good teacher is it has to be very willing
1097
00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:50.840 A:middle L:90%
to beg, borrow and steal. But if it's
1098
00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:53.480 A:middle L:90%
open, then stealing is encouraged because it's got a
1099
00:59:53.480 --> 00:59:55.659 A:middle L:90%
little see around it. We know we can use
1100
00:59:55.659 --> 00:59:59.099 A:middle L:90%
this in ways that make sense. So we think
1101
00:59:59.099 --> 01:00:01.250 A:middle L:90%
from a teaching life perspective. Open sourcing allows us
1102
01:00:01.250 --> 01:00:05.130 A:middle L:90%
to number of things. Access to content allows us
1103
01:00:05.139 --> 01:00:09.130 A:middle L:90%
access to processing for students, access for teaching and
1104
01:00:09.139 --> 01:00:12.860 A:middle L:90%
access for assessment. I think as we think in
1105
01:00:12.860 --> 01:00:14.889 A:middle L:90%
this area, it's important not to get stuck in
1106
01:00:14.889 --> 01:00:16.539 A:middle L:90%
textbooks. That's important. We can save hundreds of
1107
01:00:16.539 --> 01:00:20.400 A:middle L:90%
thousands of dollars for students, but they've got to
1108
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:22.489 A:middle L:90%
become more than just textbooks. So how do we
1109
01:00:22.489 --> 01:00:25.409 A:middle L:90%
foster them as learning tools for our students? That's
1110
01:00:25.409 --> 01:00:27.929 A:middle L:90%
kind of the to me, the flip side of
1111
01:00:27.929 --> 01:00:30.340 A:middle L:90%
the whole market. I think there's lots of potential
1112
01:00:30.340 --> 01:00:34.150 A:middle L:90%
there that we're just now getting to, so I'm
1113
01:00:34.150 --> 01:00:36.239 A:middle L:90%
within 58 seconds at the end, so I'm just
1114
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:38.530 A:middle L:90%
gonna stop there. But no lips on the end
1115
01:00:40.710 --> 01:00:47.139 A:middle L:90%
. That's just yeah, clearance. Great moments.
1116
01:00:49.510 --> 01:00:52.989 A:middle L:90%
Flexible knowledge. Five things. Reflexive knowledge. The
1117
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:54.010 A:middle L:90%
first you have to learn deeply. Okay, it's
1118
01:00:54.010 --> 01:00:57.150 A:middle L:90%
hard to be flexible, urologist yellow. We have
1119
01:00:57.150 --> 01:01:00.860 A:middle L:90%
to learn different contexts and for different purposes, so
1120
01:01:00.860 --> 01:01:02.269 A:middle L:90%
you need variability. If you learn the same problem
1121
01:01:02.269 --> 01:01:05.550 A:middle L:90%
to the same solution, the same solution to the
1122
01:01:05.550 --> 01:01:07.320 A:middle L:90%
same problem. You get really good at that one
1123
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:08.510 A:middle L:90%
problem. Somebody gives you a different problem and suddenly
1124
01:01:08.510 --> 01:01:12.760 A:middle L:90%
you can't do it. So varying conditions vary the
1125
01:01:12.769 --> 01:01:15.159 A:middle L:90%
purpose of the problem learning at the principal level.
1126
01:01:15.170 --> 01:01:17.159 A:middle L:90%
So we move beyond basic facts and concepts to understanding
1127
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:20.880 A:middle L:90%
the underlying rationale for what we know. And then
1128
01:01:20.880 --> 01:01:22.010 A:middle L:90%
the last one is a meta cognitive approach where we
1129
01:01:22.019 --> 01:01:24.880 A:middle L:90%
have awareness of what we know and we can control
1130
01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:28.429 A:middle L:90%
it. And a number of experiments where we teach
1131
01:01:28.429 --> 01:01:30.559 A:middle L:90%
students lots of really cool and groovy things. Let
1132
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:31.690 A:middle L:90%
me ask them to do it and they don't.
1133
01:01:31.699 --> 01:01:36.030 A:middle L:90%
We just spent two weeks on that until they learned
1134
01:01:36.030 --> 01:01:38.099 A:middle L:90%
that they can control what they know and what they
1135
01:01:38.110 --> 01:01:42.829 A:middle L:90%
can do. Then they're not enacting. That's probably
1136
01:01:44.869 --> 01:01:53.170 A:middle L:90%
does that make sense come other funds? I was
1137
01:01:53.280 --> 01:02:00.119 A:middle L:90%
So I'm sorry you're Adam out this idea of open
1138
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:04.280 A:middle L:90%
resources beyond just textbooks, Um, so, like
1139
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.500 A:middle L:90%
, there's the merlot and in California, and there's
1140
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:08.179 A:middle L:90%
, like, connections out of rice. I think
1141
01:02:08.179 --> 01:02:10.019 A:middle L:90%
it is. I've looked at some of those things
1142
01:02:10.019 --> 01:02:13.820 A:middle L:90%
in some sense. There is so much there.
1143
01:02:14.199 --> 01:02:15.800 A:middle L:90%
It can be kind of hard to weed through and
1144
01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:20.019 A:middle L:90%
find what I'm looking for. Do you have?
1145
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:22.690 A:middle L:90%
Do you have the solution to that? Do not
1146
01:02:22.699 --> 01:02:24.730 A:middle L:90%
. That's a huge problem. There are lots of
1147
01:02:24.730 --> 01:02:27.730 A:middle L:90%
things out there, but we don't have is a
1148
01:02:27.730 --> 01:02:30.610 A:middle L:90%
good organizing structure, and I don't know what that
1149
01:02:30.610 --> 01:02:31.730 A:middle L:90%
organizing structure is. I would I would hope that
1150
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:36.239 A:middle L:90%
don't know somebody Google esque would come up with ER
1151
01:02:36.250 --> 01:02:37.659 A:middle L:90%
, Google or something. But you're right. It
1152
01:02:37.659 --> 01:02:40.280 A:middle L:90%
sometimes part of the issue is finding out what's out
1153
01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:43.760 A:middle L:90%
there and then typically, you have to modify it
1154
01:02:43.769 --> 01:02:46.460 A:middle L:90%
for your class. That the original thought was that
1155
01:02:46.469 --> 01:02:50.389 A:middle L:90%
we would create these elements and we could just stick
1156
01:02:50.389 --> 01:02:52.889 A:middle L:90%
them into our class unfettered. But we really need
1157
01:02:52.900 --> 01:02:54.760 A:middle L:90%
to have some control over them, and that's one
1158
01:02:54.760 --> 01:02:57.650 A:middle L:90%
of the things that hasn't been available. Is to
1159
01:02:57.659 --> 01:02:59.869 A:middle L:90%
be able to get in and modify. But I
1160
01:02:59.869 --> 01:03:06.610 A:middle L:90%
think that's that's mm. Let's see that is attacking
1161
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:16.679 A:middle L:90%
. All right. Thank you. I have a
1162
01:03:16.690 --> 01:03:22.130 A:middle L:90%
lot of questions as usual, and I would love
1163
01:03:22.130 --> 01:03:23.889 A:middle L:90%
to hear further questions from the panel as well as
1164
01:03:23.900 --> 01:03:31.050 A:middle L:90%
the audience. Um, so there is a quote
1165
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:35.650 A:middle L:90%
, an idea in education that the one who does
1166
01:03:35.659 --> 01:03:37.730 A:middle L:90%
the work is the one who learns most. This
1167
01:03:37.730 --> 01:03:43.130 A:middle L:90%
is familiar. Okay, so I'm wondering, Are
1168
01:03:43.130 --> 01:03:49.210 A:middle L:90%
there ways to engage students mashing up all kinds of
1169
01:03:49.219 --> 01:03:51.500 A:middle L:90%
things in their spare time? Are there ways to
1170
01:03:51.500 --> 01:03:53.920 A:middle L:90%
engage students? A. A learning sort of way
1171
01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:59.320 A:middle L:90%
in a production sort of way to create openly licensed
1172
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:03.110 A:middle L:90%
things, both to teach them about open licensing and
1173
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:09.280 A:middle L:90%
to create some materials that would allow them to deeply
1174
01:04:09.469 --> 01:04:13.920 A:middle L:90%
engaged with? Yeah, How would that fit in
1175
01:04:14.289 --> 01:04:17.739 A:middle L:90%
your courses without 50 C and application? Any of
1176
01:04:17.739 --> 01:04:21.880 A:middle L:90%
you, it's This might not be a direct answer
1177
01:04:21.889 --> 01:04:26.230 A:middle L:90%
. Um, this is 10. Essential. Perhaps
1178
01:04:26.230 --> 01:04:29.769 A:middle L:90%
these are math words of the covers of my books
1179
01:04:29.780 --> 01:04:31.949 A:middle L:90%
are very boring. There's just a solid color because
1180
01:04:31.960 --> 01:04:36.000 A:middle L:90%
I'm not a graphic artist. And if I tried
1181
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:39.030 A:middle L:90%
to make a cover, it would look worse than
1182
01:04:39.030 --> 01:04:41.110 A:middle L:90%
a solid red cover. Um, it would just
1183
01:04:41.110 --> 01:04:43.059 A:middle L:90%
look terrible, and it turned people off. I
1184
01:04:43.059 --> 01:04:45.090 A:middle L:90%
think Vietnamese. A smaller school. There's one thing
1185
01:04:45.090 --> 01:04:48.250 A:middle L:90%
that I think Virginia Tech has. I'm sure a
1186
01:04:48.250 --> 01:04:53.909 A:middle L:90%
graphic design school where your training students to one day
1187
01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:59.210 A:middle L:90%
design covers of books, and so why not have
1188
01:04:59.210 --> 01:05:02.409 A:middle L:90%
it as the capstone project of of a Student to
1189
01:05:02.409 --> 01:05:05.730 A:middle L:90%
design the covers of of my book, um,
1190
01:05:05.739 --> 01:05:08.969 A:middle L:90%
and and make it look nice. And I spent
1191
01:05:08.969 --> 01:05:11.039 A:middle L:90%
a lot of time making all the grass look good
1192
01:05:11.050 --> 01:05:13.599 A:middle L:90%
, but it's also it's a graphic design problem.
1193
01:05:13.610 --> 01:05:15.010 A:middle L:90%
Um, I laid out the book myself, but
1194
01:05:15.010 --> 01:05:20.159 A:middle L:90%
that's there are professional type setters. And what's the
1195
01:05:20.170 --> 01:05:24.170 A:middle L:90%
word when you lay out a page that's they study
1196
01:05:24.170 --> 01:05:25.800 A:middle L:90%
that kind of thing? And why not get students
1197
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:28.179 A:middle L:90%
to do that for us to make it actually look
1198
01:05:28.179 --> 01:05:30.760 A:middle L:90%
better? Um, and that wouldn't engage them in
1199
01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:31.969 A:middle L:90%
the calculus side of it, But it would be
1200
01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:34.519 A:middle L:90%
it would engage them in their particular field, and
1201
01:05:34.519 --> 01:05:40.420 A:middle L:90%
I think there should be opportunities for that. I
1202
01:05:40.429 --> 01:05:43.239 A:middle L:90%
think part of it is we also need to think
1203
01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:45.190 A:middle L:90%
about educational differently. And so what we're designing is
1204
01:05:45.190 --> 01:05:47.400 A:middle L:90%
real world problems to solve, which is which is
1205
01:05:47.539 --> 01:05:51.769 A:middle L:90%
what you're talking about that capture some of their curiosity
1206
01:05:51.780 --> 01:05:55.139 A:middle L:90%
challenges them at a deep level where they have to
1207
01:05:55.139 --> 01:05:57.650 A:middle L:90%
learn tools to create the solution. But it's a
1208
01:05:57.650 --> 01:06:00.050 A:middle L:90%
real live solution because oftentimes students get well imagine,
1209
01:06:00.050 --> 01:06:01.480 A:middle L:90%
except when they're like, Well, I don't care
1210
01:06:01.480 --> 01:06:05.210 A:middle L:90%
if one train runs into the other train. So
1211
01:06:05.219 --> 01:06:06.659 A:middle L:90%
, uh, if we give them that the real
1212
01:06:06.659 --> 01:06:10.260 A:middle L:90%
world solutions, like something that they have to actually
1213
01:06:10.269 --> 01:06:13.010 A:middle L:90%
design, then they're going to engage and learn the
1214
01:06:13.019 --> 01:06:15.929 A:middle L:90%
tools to create a solution, not learn the tools
1215
01:06:15.929 --> 01:06:16.559 A:middle L:90%
just for the tools. Six. So we've got
1216
01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:19.210 A:middle L:90%
to figure out how we motivate students, and there's
1217
01:06:19.210 --> 01:06:23.119 A:middle L:90%
lots of different ways that we motivate them. Curiosity
1218
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:25.360 A:middle L:90%
, control and challenge, or just kind of three
1219
01:06:25.360 --> 01:06:28.099 A:middle L:90%
of them. But we can create real world problems
1220
01:06:28.219 --> 01:06:30.869 A:middle L:90%
that suck the students in so they don't think Oh
1221
01:06:30.869 --> 01:06:32.119 A:middle L:90%
my gosh, I'm learning calculus there thinking I've got
1222
01:06:32.119 --> 01:06:34.690 A:middle L:90%
to solve this problem and I need to do these
1223
01:06:34.690 --> 01:06:39.090 A:middle L:90%
equations in order to figure that out rather than Oh
1224
01:06:39.090 --> 01:06:43.000 A:middle L:90%
, I'm doing calculus. I think that's sort of
1225
01:06:43.010 --> 01:06:46.179 A:middle L:90%
where your your students finding typos comes in. Find
1226
01:06:46.190 --> 01:06:51.239 A:middle L:90%
the formula that's incorrect. That's a wonderful way to
1227
01:06:51.250 --> 01:06:56.139 A:middle L:90%
get deeply. Yes, I think we have a
1228
01:06:56.139 --> 01:06:58.659 A:middle L:90%
similar thing in computer science when we have the open
1229
01:06:58.659 --> 01:07:01.769 A:middle L:90%
software open source software because students are encouraged to.
1230
01:07:01.780 --> 01:07:04.719 A:middle L:90%
I mean without any encouragement, they're just do this
1231
01:07:04.730 --> 01:07:08.590 A:middle L:90%
work and they can publish it for people to see
1232
01:07:08.590 --> 01:07:11.809 A:middle L:90%
it. But The motivation here is that they get
1233
01:07:11.809 --> 01:07:14.340 A:middle L:90%
acknowledged for how smart they are, because when they
1234
01:07:14.340 --> 01:07:16.079 A:middle L:90%
published a software code that they didn't, they solved
1235
01:07:16.090 --> 01:07:18.460 A:middle L:90%
certain problems. So they get acknowledged for this.
1236
01:07:18.469 --> 01:07:24.199 A:middle L:90%
So if we for the open textbooks or even open
1237
01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:27.409 A:middle L:90%
access or whatever, if students can be acknowledged for
1238
01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:30.039 A:middle L:90%
you talk about curiosity and motivating them towards this.
1239
01:07:30.050 --> 01:07:32.789 A:middle L:90%
So the best thing is to motivate them to get
1240
01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:36.460 A:middle L:90%
technologies for that. How how good they are graphic
1241
01:07:36.460 --> 01:07:40.230 A:middle L:90%
designers, how smart they are. Problem solvers and
1242
01:07:40.239 --> 01:07:42.909 A:middle L:90%
this kind of stuff. This would be very beneficial
1243
01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:50.210 A:middle L:90%
for them for the work of open packages. Okay
1244
01:07:51.480 --> 01:07:57.300 A:middle L:90%
, gentlemen. And the scarf. I'm wondering about
1245
01:07:57.780 --> 01:08:02.719 A:middle L:90%
her husband. So I was wondering about the creativity
1246
01:08:02.730 --> 01:08:04.199 A:middle L:90%
. Yeah. I mean, I thought that was
1247
01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:08.989 A:middle L:90%
a fascinating It didn't really occur to me before.
1248
01:08:08.989 --> 01:08:12.269 A:middle L:90%
So it was an interesting and intriguing idea. Yeah
1249
01:08:13.369 --> 01:08:15.730 A:middle L:90%
, if you were. If you were designing a
1250
01:08:15.739 --> 01:08:18.300 A:middle L:90%
curriculum, that or if you were designing the university
1251
01:08:18.300 --> 01:08:24.390 A:middle L:90%
to the turnout professors of what would you do different
1252
01:08:24.770 --> 01:08:31.590 A:middle L:90%
to encourage creativity, an instruction or instructional design or
1253
01:08:32.170 --> 01:08:35.909 A:middle L:90%
or Yeah, you know, creative solutions to the
1254
01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:50.270 A:middle L:90%
teaching. The key word. That's deep. Yeah
1255
01:08:51.170 --> 01:08:54.109 A:middle L:90%
, because I see the problem that you're sort of
1256
01:08:54.119 --> 01:08:59.689 A:middle L:90%
highlighting is that in some sense, you're getting your
1257
01:08:59.689 --> 01:09:00.920 A:middle L:90%
PhD in math. You're so focused on your on
1258
01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:04.569 A:middle L:90%
your dissertation that you don't see the forest out there
1259
01:09:04.569 --> 01:09:06.369 A:middle L:90%
. You see the roots of one tree, you
1260
01:09:06.369 --> 01:09:10.680 A:middle L:90%
know, and it takes a while to step back
1261
01:09:11.199 --> 01:09:13.670 A:middle L:90%
. And then as an undergrad, you're doing the
1262
01:09:13.670 --> 01:09:15.810 A:middle L:90%
same thing you're think of getting a job or whatever
1263
01:09:15.810 --> 01:09:16.689 A:middle L:90%
it's going to be. You're not necessarily thinking about
1264
01:09:18.270 --> 01:09:21.789 A:middle L:90%
the creative process in all of this. Yeah,
1265
01:09:24.770 --> 01:09:28.149 A:middle L:90%
short answers. I don't know. I guess how
1266
01:09:28.149 --> 01:09:31.729 A:middle L:90%
to foster that creativity. Apart from trying to display
1267
01:09:31.729 --> 01:09:36.930 A:middle L:90%
it myself in the classroom, it's very challenging question
1268
01:09:36.939 --> 01:09:42.159 A:middle L:90%
. Frankly, yeah, can I check? And
1269
01:09:42.170 --> 01:09:44.609 A:middle L:90%
I know you're waiting for a question, but I
1270
01:09:44.609 --> 01:09:45.899 A:middle L:90%
think one of the things that I feel is an
1271
01:09:45.899 --> 01:09:53.350 A:middle L:90%
instructor is a schedule and a timetable that when I'm
1272
01:09:53.350 --> 01:09:57.880 A:middle L:90%
covering teaching a class in calculus, I have one
1273
01:09:57.880 --> 01:09:59.770 A:middle L:90%
day for the chain rule, and I have one
1274
01:09:59.770 --> 01:10:01.710 A:middle L:90%
day for the product rule and I have, and
1275
01:10:01.909 --> 01:10:06.250 A:middle L:90%
the time to cover the content limits. How many
1276
01:10:06.250 --> 01:10:10.189 A:middle L:90%
perspectives I can I can introduce in that class?
1277
01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:15.460 A:middle L:90%
Um, and I've taught the same classes over and
1278
01:10:15.460 --> 01:10:18.300 A:middle L:90%
over again and sometimes out of different books that I've
1279
01:10:18.300 --> 01:10:23.029 A:middle L:90%
seen lots of perspectives on a topic. And I
1280
01:10:23.029 --> 01:10:27.279 A:middle L:90%
like seeing how this one plays out and how this
1281
01:10:27.279 --> 01:10:30.119 A:middle L:90%
one does something else and how this one has an
1282
01:10:30.130 --> 01:10:32.500 A:middle L:90%
interesting application in art and that sort of thing.
1283
01:10:32.510 --> 01:10:34.529 A:middle L:90%
And I'd love to be able to sort of take
1284
01:10:34.529 --> 01:10:38.979 A:middle L:90%
one of these topics and share all of them all
1285
01:10:38.979 --> 01:10:42.569 A:middle L:90%
of things, different ideas about that topic. Oh
1286
01:10:43.159 --> 01:10:46.939 A:middle L:90%
, I could I could spend for anyone topic in
1287
01:10:46.939 --> 01:10:49.960 A:middle L:90%
my class. I could spend two or three weeks
1288
01:10:49.970 --> 01:10:53.619 A:middle L:90%
talking about that one topic if I had that luxury
1289
01:10:53.729 --> 01:11:00.140 A:middle L:90%
. And and I feel like sometimes my students are
1290
01:11:00.140 --> 01:11:04.199 A:middle L:90%
diverse enough that the one choice that I've made for
1291
01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:06.149 A:middle L:90%
this semester on, How am I going to present
1292
01:11:06.149 --> 01:11:10.239 A:middle L:90%
it? I'm trying to present it in a way
1293
01:11:10.239 --> 01:11:13.689 A:middle L:90%
that makes it understandable. Um, but that doesn't
1294
01:11:13.689 --> 01:11:17.380 A:middle L:90%
necessarily make it lovable or exciting or inspiring, um
1295
01:11:18.029 --> 01:11:25.229 A:middle L:90%
, and that the necessity of moving on to the
1296
01:11:25.229 --> 01:11:29.569 A:middle L:90%
next topic limits limits the ways that we can engage
1297
01:11:29.579 --> 01:11:32.720 A:middle L:90%
things other than just understanding the content. And I
1298
01:11:32.720 --> 01:11:34.649 A:middle L:90%
would follow up with that. We live in a
1299
01:11:34.649 --> 01:11:38.460 A:middle L:90%
very weird, weird world where students are taught to
1300
01:11:38.460 --> 01:11:41.050 A:middle L:90%
learn. Faculty aren't taught to teach, but that's
1301
01:11:41.050 --> 01:11:44.300 A:middle L:90%
what we do in this environment. And so when
1302
01:11:44.300 --> 01:11:45.420 A:middle L:90%
we're not, when we don't have that background,
1303
01:11:45.420 --> 01:11:48.020 A:middle L:90%
we tend to teach from the content side. So
1304
01:11:48.020 --> 01:11:50.760 A:middle L:90%
I I have to teach calculus one content. And
1305
01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:53.800 A:middle L:90%
in fact, that's not what calculus is about.
1306
01:11:53.810 --> 01:11:57.170 A:middle L:90%
Calculus about solving problems, right? And so when
1307
01:11:57.170 --> 01:12:00.020 A:middle L:90%
we when we take it with without stepping back to
1308
01:12:00.020 --> 01:12:00.130 A:middle L:90%
take a look at it, we teach it from
1309
01:12:00.130 --> 01:12:02.369 A:middle L:90%
the content side. So we teach bits and pieces
1310
01:12:02.380 --> 01:12:04.859 A:middle L:90%
, hoping that downstream they're going to make something from
1311
01:12:04.859 --> 01:12:08.050 A:middle L:90%
it, rather than starting on the performance end,
1312
01:12:08.050 --> 01:12:10.640 A:middle L:90%
where they're going to need to know this information downstream
1313
01:12:10.859 --> 01:12:13.119 A:middle L:90%
and working that back into the class. So we're
1314
01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:16.159 A:middle L:90%
solving problems that need this information rather than teaching an
1315
01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:19.069 A:middle L:90%
equation that three years from now, hopefully they'll remember
1316
01:12:19.069 --> 01:12:21.390 A:middle L:90%
enough of it to apply it to something I teach
1317
01:12:21.390 --> 01:12:24.699 A:middle L:90%
at cycle teacher pre service teachers. I need to
1318
01:12:24.699 --> 01:12:26.359 A:middle L:90%
get them to the class as fast as they can
1319
01:12:26.529 --> 01:12:27.800 A:middle L:90%
. I need to get them in front of people
1320
01:12:27.810 --> 01:12:30.090 A:middle L:90%
teaching so they understand what works and what doesn't work
1321
01:12:30.109 --> 01:12:32.989 A:middle L:90%
and not just teach them bits and pieces and hope
1322
01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:35.979 A:middle L:90%
when they graduated in the class. Somehow it magically
1323
01:12:35.979 --> 01:12:39.689 A:middle L:90%
all comes together. So part of this is also
1324
01:12:39.689 --> 01:12:42.270 A:middle L:90%
backing up and thinking about how do we work with
1325
01:12:42.750 --> 01:12:44.430 A:middle L:90%
with teachers, that we work with people who are
1326
01:12:44.439 --> 01:12:47.510 A:middle L:90%
PhD students who are going to become professors and work
1327
01:12:47.510 --> 01:12:49.689 A:middle L:90%
on some of these things that we're talking about So
1328
01:12:49.689 --> 01:12:54.560 A:middle L:90%
they do come out with what you're talking. Next
1329
01:12:54.560 --> 01:12:58.079 A:middle L:90%
question. This lady, I never asked. Yeah
1330
01:13:00.050 --> 01:13:00.579 A:middle L:90%
, smell a lot of movement. That system.
1331
01:13:01.350 --> 01:13:05.149 A:middle L:90%
Mhm. Mhm. There is some stuff. Listen
1332
01:13:05.149 --> 01:13:10.020 A:middle L:90%
to my defense. 30 40 50 miles per year
1333
01:13:10.029 --> 01:13:13.970 A:middle L:90%
royalties. There is the strongest Not to do,
1334
01:13:14.649 --> 01:13:17.159 A:middle L:90%
sure. I mean, you're making tens of thousands
1335
01:13:18.149 --> 01:13:21.899 A:middle L:90%
for years, so this might be a little off
1336
01:13:21.909 --> 01:13:29.109 A:middle L:90%
topic. But where where an often publishes that brought
1337
01:13:30.050 --> 01:13:32.479 A:middle L:90%
determines how much the student may have. David.
1338
01:13:33.649 --> 01:13:40.789 A:middle L:90%
That range is about$250 a book 20 uh,
1339
01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:45.250 A:middle L:90%
published publisher where I can buy that book as a
1340
01:13:45.250 --> 01:13:47.989 A:middle L:90%
librarian, get it online, and they can download
1341
01:13:47.989 --> 01:13:51.569 A:middle L:90%
it from the student. There's nothing for So how
1342
01:13:53.050 --> 01:13:56.949 A:middle L:90%
do we get to learn out the professors who say
1343
01:13:56.960 --> 01:14:00.829 A:middle L:90%
you publish with more than one place or you published
1344
01:14:00.829 --> 01:14:02.739 A:middle L:90%
a Springer or you published Elsa. Here I begin
1345
01:14:02.739 --> 01:14:05.779 A:middle L:90%
that book for zero cost of the students. And
1346
01:14:05.779 --> 01:14:10.500 A:middle L:90%
if you publish never I can't do anything. Just
1347
01:14:10.500 --> 01:14:15.699 A:middle L:90%
needs to go dollars. I noticed open resources,
1348
01:14:15.710 --> 01:14:17.960 A:middle L:90%
but it certainly ties him with how much students are
1349
01:14:18.640 --> 01:14:21.329 A:middle L:90%
. What? How do we get the word out
1350
01:14:21.340 --> 01:14:24.739 A:middle L:90%
? How do we let professors know that your choice
1351
01:14:24.739 --> 01:14:28.060 A:middle L:90%
of publisher makes a difference how much the students pay
1352
01:14:28.130 --> 01:14:31.770 A:middle L:90%
per semester for your book? I think for me
1353
01:14:31.779 --> 01:14:34.119 A:middle L:90%
being an evangelist that I am now for this is
1354
01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:39.060 A:middle L:90%
that, like in the math world, Dr Brown
1355
01:14:39.060 --> 01:14:40.960 A:middle L:90%
and I both go to the section meetings of the
1356
01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:44.000 A:middle L:90%
M A Mathematical Association of America twice a year.
1357
01:14:44.010 --> 01:14:45.310 A:middle L:90%
And for the last four years in a row,
1358
01:14:45.310 --> 01:14:47.180 A:middle L:90%
twice a year, I've been giving a presentation on
1359
01:14:47.189 --> 01:14:50.520 A:middle L:90%
open open textbooks, basically just saying over and over
1360
01:14:50.520 --> 01:14:54.930 A:middle L:90%
again, sometimes the same crowd books cost too much
1361
01:14:54.930 --> 01:14:58.010 A:middle L:90%
money, and then when you have lunch with somebody
1362
01:14:58.020 --> 01:14:59.520 A:middle L:90%
, just sort of slide it in. There aren't
1363
01:14:59.520 --> 01:15:00.500 A:middle L:90%
textbooks expensive. I've been looking at this cheaper one
1364
01:15:00.510 --> 01:15:01.350 A:middle L:90%
. You know, that kind of thing. I
1365
01:15:01.350 --> 01:15:03.319 A:middle L:90%
think just talking on a personal level. I don't
1366
01:15:03.319 --> 01:15:13.470 A:middle L:90%
know what your professional meetings are, but right.
1367
01:15:15.140 --> 01:15:17.329 A:middle L:90%
Educational resources. But it's just a commercial publishers.
1368
01:15:17.539 --> 01:15:20.560 A:middle L:90%
A huge difference. Which commercial publisher? Publisher?
1369
01:15:20.939 --> 01:15:24.699 A:middle L:90%
Yeah. Uh huh. I don't even know where
1370
01:15:24.699 --> 01:15:27.100 A:middle L:90%
to start. It's very frustrating because I know there
1371
01:15:27.100 --> 01:15:30.239 A:middle L:90%
are textbooks out here that I can get zero cost
1372
01:15:30.250 --> 01:15:31.779 A:middle L:90%
. I can pay$1000 for a book that goes
1373
01:15:31.779 --> 01:15:34.430 A:middle L:90%
out to 100 students and they don't have any right
1374
01:15:34.430 --> 01:15:38.250 A:middle L:90%
down. This is free to them and another culture
1375
01:15:38.250 --> 01:15:44.170 A:middle L:90%
. I can't touch it. McMillan Also mhm.
1376
01:15:45.739 --> 01:15:48.850 A:middle L:90%
So then I guess my thought to just some things
1377
01:15:48.850 --> 01:15:50.340 A:middle L:90%
I had to do with vm I trying to get
1378
01:15:50.340 --> 01:15:53.250 A:middle L:90%
the word out of a completely different things. I
1379
01:15:53.250 --> 01:15:55.319 A:middle L:90%
realized no one reads my emails. But if I
1380
01:15:55.319 --> 01:15:56.770 A:middle L:90%
go and talk to them face to face, they'll
1381
01:15:56.770 --> 01:15:58.539 A:middle L:90%
listen to me for five minutes. And so I
1382
01:15:58.539 --> 01:16:00.710 A:middle L:90%
had to talk to. I wanted all the faculty
1383
01:16:00.710 --> 01:16:02.130 A:middle L:90%
know something. So I emailed all the department heads
1384
01:16:02.130 --> 01:16:03.970 A:middle L:90%
and say, Can I come to your department meeting
1385
01:16:03.970 --> 01:16:06.239 A:middle L:90%
the next one and have three minutes of your time
1386
01:16:06.729 --> 01:16:10.199 A:middle L:90%
? Um and I got half of the departments to
1387
01:16:10.199 --> 01:16:12.779 A:middle L:90%
say yes, and so I still got far more
1388
01:16:12.779 --> 01:16:15.590 A:middle L:90%
coverage that way and maybe face to face conversations with
1389
01:16:15.600 --> 01:16:17.300 A:middle L:90%
heads of the mechanical engineering division. Um, and
1390
01:16:17.300 --> 01:16:19.210 A:middle L:90%
say, I can just tell you real quick.
1391
01:16:19.220 --> 01:16:21.189 A:middle L:90%
Here's a bunch of mechanical engineering books that are real
1392
01:16:21.189 --> 01:16:24.500 A:middle L:90%
expensive. I think these are probably good too.
1393
01:16:24.500 --> 01:16:26.399 A:middle L:90%
I don't know because I'm not a professional. You
1394
01:16:26.399 --> 01:16:28.920 A:middle L:90%
are. Perhaps, but they're a third of the
1395
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:30.489 A:middle L:90%
cost. Would you consider? And then maybe they'll
1396
01:16:30.489 --> 01:16:36.149 A:middle L:90%
get the conversation started. Yes. Okay. Yeah
1397
01:16:36.930 --> 01:16:42.340 A:middle L:90%
, a certain amount. Long. Pretty good.
1398
01:16:44.430 --> 01:16:46.960 A:middle L:90%
Okay. Yeah, they're really good. Thanks.
1399
01:16:48.229 --> 01:16:55.649 A:middle L:90%
Oh, a wide variety of cost. I have
1400
01:16:56.130 --> 01:17:02.590 A:middle L:90%
? Yeah, yeah. Especially for mhm. Classic
1401
01:17:02.590 --> 01:17:06.649 A:middle L:90%
. It's usually don't numbers. Here it goes back
1402
01:17:08.329 --> 01:17:14.800 A:middle L:90%
mhm way, Way before. Yeah. And there's
1403
01:17:14.800 --> 01:17:20.340 A:middle L:90%
some older books have been re friend. Yeah.
1404
01:17:20.829 --> 01:17:26.010 A:middle L:90%
Have all the information you can suffer. This is
1405
01:17:26.010 --> 01:17:30.649 A:middle L:90%
a senior, and then there are new. Yeah
1406
01:17:32.229 --> 01:17:36.449 A:middle L:90%
, the standard book number theory that would I have
1407
01:17:36.460 --> 01:17:41.649 A:middle L:90%
been having this huge is by three years or it
1408
01:17:41.649 --> 01:17:46.199 A:middle L:90%
was 140 off. Yeah, Yeah, the best
1409
01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:50.630 A:middle L:90%
players in the field. Yeah, you got to
1410
01:17:50.640 --> 01:17:54.369 A:middle L:90%
do that. You have to make You can make
1411
01:17:54.369 --> 01:17:58.960 A:middle L:90%
your own. This is this is an alternate.
1412
01:17:59.430 --> 01:18:03.800 A:middle L:90%
This is not open source. Business Halt! Autonomous
1413
01:18:04.720 --> 01:18:06.630 A:middle L:90%
. That's right. Yeah. I mean, we
1414
01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:12.359 A:middle L:90%
can't get the idea. Mhm. I don't think
1415
01:18:12.359 --> 01:18:15.710 A:middle L:90%
just go for education is decreasing the burden of the
1416
01:18:15.710 --> 01:18:17.779 A:middle L:90%
students. And maybe we'll get you know, the
1417
01:18:17.789 --> 01:18:21.479 A:middle L:90%
distance because one of the things that you can say
1418
01:18:21.479 --> 01:18:28.210 A:middle L:90%
to Well, if you Google NPR textbook costs,
1419
01:18:28.819 --> 01:18:30.319 A:middle L:90%
um, you'll probably run across our planet money through
1420
01:18:30.319 --> 01:18:31.539 A:middle L:90%
that in there, too. You run across a
1421
01:18:31.539 --> 01:18:34.479 A:middle L:90%
couple different articles they have and one of them highlight
1422
01:18:34.479 --> 01:18:36.770 A:middle L:90%
some of the things that neither had which textbook costs
1423
01:18:36.779 --> 01:18:39.949 A:middle L:90%
over the last at least 12 years has gone up
1424
01:18:39.960 --> 01:18:43.109 A:middle L:90%
800% versus 8000. Whatever you show. I mean
1425
01:18:43.109 --> 01:18:45.109 A:middle L:90%
, it's pretty steep as it is, and then
1426
01:18:45.109 --> 01:18:46.960 A:middle L:90%
it shows the amount students have been paying over the
1427
01:18:46.960 --> 01:18:51.350 A:middle L:90%
last 10 years. And it's this. It's because
1428
01:18:51.350 --> 01:18:54.869 A:middle L:90%
they're buying fewer books, and that's not what we
1429
01:18:54.869 --> 01:18:56.850 A:middle L:90%
want. I mean, that's so not what we
1430
01:18:56.850 --> 01:18:59.090 A:middle L:90%
want. Um, and yes, this is a
1431
01:18:59.090 --> 01:19:01.319 A:middle L:90%
paperback, and this doesn't work for everybody, but
1432
01:19:01.329 --> 01:19:03.340 A:middle L:90%
if you buy it for 13, you might just
1433
01:19:03.340 --> 01:19:06.270 A:middle L:90%
keep it because it's not worth the$2 at the
1434
01:19:06.270 --> 01:19:08.909 A:middle L:90%
bookstore is going to buy it back for her and
1435
01:19:08.909 --> 01:19:10.760 A:middle L:90%
then you have a book, and then you also
1436
01:19:10.760 --> 01:19:13.140 A:middle L:90%
have the pdf. And then that's a selling point
1437
01:19:13.140 --> 01:19:15.069 A:middle L:90%
to me is that the students will actually have the
1438
01:19:15.069 --> 01:19:16.850 A:middle L:90%
books. We want them to have the books.
1439
01:19:17.420 --> 01:19:20.659 A:middle L:90%
Yeah, you can get. You can get to
1440
01:19:20.659 --> 01:19:26.090 A:middle L:90%
the students. One has one. Why is this
1441
01:19:26.090 --> 01:19:29.279 A:middle L:90%
book the text said? Well, if you're not
1442
01:19:29.289 --> 01:19:31.250 A:middle L:90%
gonna buy it Uh huh. They used to.
1443
01:19:34.119 --> 01:19:42.770 A:middle L:90%
You're going to have a choice. Fine. Not
1444
01:19:42.779 --> 01:19:45.250 A:middle L:90%
going to buy the book because it's so expensive.
1445
01:19:45.819 --> 01:19:53.039 A:middle L:90%
Maybe go back. I dropped the ball. Say
1446
01:19:55.220 --> 01:19:56.979 A:middle L:90%
, Well, that brings up an interesting point.
1447
01:19:56.979 --> 01:20:00.239 A:middle L:90%
Do you see students in your class engaging? Are
1448
01:20:00.239 --> 01:20:03.880 A:middle L:90%
they doing better because they have access to tax?
1449
01:20:03.890 --> 01:20:08.729 A:middle L:90%
I assume you haven't done a study, but anecdotally
1450
01:20:09.810 --> 01:20:12.159 A:middle L:90%
, Um, yeah, it's hard to say about
1451
01:20:12.159 --> 01:20:14.460 A:middle L:90%
that when we didn't formally do a study in pretty
1452
01:20:14.460 --> 01:20:18.420 A:middle L:90%
imposed Um, mhm. Yeah, I haven't been
1453
01:20:18.420 --> 01:20:20.670 A:middle L:90%
to study. Their studies do exist, though there
1454
01:20:20.670 --> 01:20:24.689 A:middle L:90%
are studies that indicate that through open source you can
1455
01:20:24.689 --> 01:20:27.710 A:middle L:90%
get an increase in student performance for a number of
1456
01:20:27.710 --> 01:20:29.439 A:middle L:90%
different reasons, one of which is they buy the
1457
01:20:29.449 --> 01:20:31.050 A:middle L:90%
book at the beginning of the semester rather than three
1458
01:20:31.050 --> 01:20:34.149 A:middle L:90%
or four weeks in so they can smell 12 bucks
1459
01:20:34.159 --> 01:20:36.409 A:middle L:90%
. You know, the week before class starts,
1460
01:20:36.420 --> 01:20:39.079 A:middle L:90%
rather than trying to figure out what am I going
1461
01:20:39.079 --> 01:20:40.810 A:middle L:90%
to be in this class? Is he really gonna
1462
01:20:40.810 --> 01:20:42.720 A:middle L:90%
use the buck? Because that's one of the things
1463
01:20:42.720 --> 01:20:44.729 A:middle L:90%
that are going to spend 100 50 bucks, and
1464
01:20:44.729 --> 01:20:46.859 A:middle L:90%
then nobody ever uses it. And so so,
1465
01:20:46.869 --> 01:20:48.670 A:middle L:90%
part of it is, is letting them know I'm
1466
01:20:48.670 --> 01:20:51.170 A:middle L:90%
going to use this, but it's only 12 bucks
1467
01:20:51.710 --> 01:20:54.630 A:middle L:90%
. That's, you know, less than one night
1468
01:20:54.630 --> 01:20:58.560 A:middle L:90%
out top of the stairs. So I want to
1469
01:20:58.569 --> 01:21:01.359 A:middle L:90%
recognize there is a student here, Hannah Thomas,
1470
01:21:01.359 --> 01:21:06.560 A:middle L:90%
who has heads up the Academic Affairs committee of student
1471
01:21:06.560 --> 01:21:11.439 A:middle L:90%
Government. And I want you to feel free to
1472
01:21:11.810 --> 01:21:15.079 A:middle L:90%
jump in at any point about what you, you
1473
01:21:15.079 --> 01:21:17.199 A:middle L:90%
and your group your committee learned about this past week
1474
01:21:17.210 --> 01:21:27.750 A:middle L:90%
, especially with regard to students having an experience where
1475
01:21:27.760 --> 01:21:31.279 A:middle L:90%
faculty maybe assign a book and the students by it
1476
01:21:31.289 --> 01:21:34.130 A:middle L:90%
. And then they decide not to use it and
1477
01:21:34.810 --> 01:21:42.539 A:middle L:90%
say, Hey, basically, it's especially and we
1478
01:21:42.539 --> 01:21:45.010 A:middle L:90%
just had that where you can see officials on the
1479
01:21:45.010 --> 01:21:50.289 A:middle L:90%
screen. We just wanted to see Whoa and thinking
1480
01:21:50.289 --> 01:21:56.220 A:middle L:90%
that I was that bye And that's what Yeah,
1481
01:21:57.310 --> 01:22:00.619 A:middle L:90%
worse season. That was I mean, yes,
1482
01:22:00.100 --> 01:22:06.560 A:middle L:90%
that's good to store sensitive and is very good news
1483
01:22:06.560 --> 01:22:10.760 A:middle L:90%
, because anything recently, even in the way,
1484
01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:13.500 A:middle L:90%
I will open a special. But I would say
1485
01:22:13.500 --> 01:22:15.329 A:middle L:90%
it's very inspiring sickness. Okay, you're talking about
1486
01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:18.539 A:middle L:90%
. Tend to go to see that system. That
1487
01:22:18.539 --> 01:22:30.199 A:middle L:90%
means mhm. Yes. Was left. I want
1488
01:22:30.199 --> 01:22:33.859 A:middle L:90%
to direct this first rate. How are you going
1489
01:22:33.869 --> 01:22:39.250 A:middle L:90%
to do another mhm. And you have library publishing
1490
01:22:39.250 --> 01:22:43.460 A:middle L:90%
services. Uh, how what do you think the
1491
01:22:43.460 --> 01:22:48.840 A:middle L:90%
library could do to help present publishing units? I'll
1492
01:22:48.850 --> 01:22:51.180 A:middle L:90%
give you my ignorance. I'm not sure what library
1493
01:22:51.189 --> 01:22:56.729 A:middle L:90%
publishing services can do for me. I'm very ignorant
1494
01:22:57.199 --> 01:23:02.960 A:middle L:90%
to what they have available for, right was some
1495
01:23:02.970 --> 01:23:09.409 A:middle L:90%
scholarly journals and some software that helps fired up process
1496
01:23:09.600 --> 01:23:15.840 A:middle L:90%
. Oh, papers with your committee publishing. And
1497
01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:18.210 A:middle L:90%
we have some constant services. But we haven't done
1498
01:23:18.210 --> 01:23:24.140 A:middle L:90%
it. Mm hmm. Have a faculty sent us
1499
01:23:24.140 --> 01:23:28.010 A:middle L:90%
a finished product. Okay. You'd like to help
1500
01:23:28.020 --> 01:23:31.630 A:middle L:90%
them? I think open textbooks the way we can
1501
01:23:31.630 --> 01:23:35.420 A:middle L:90%
get us. But I don't I don't know from
1502
01:23:35.430 --> 01:23:39.310 A:middle L:90%
you. I don't know that. What? Their
1503
01:23:39.310 --> 01:23:40.979 A:middle L:90%
look they might be looking for. What? Help
1504
01:23:40.979 --> 01:23:45.510 A:middle L:90%
they give them because it's not going to be right
1505
01:23:45.899 --> 01:23:48.670 A:middle L:90%
. But are there things to do with putting it
1506
01:23:48.670 --> 01:23:54.239 A:middle L:90%
together? Indexing it? I don't know. I
1507
01:23:54.250 --> 01:23:56.229 A:middle L:90%
don't know either. So I just want to do
1508
01:23:56.239 --> 01:23:59.779 A:middle L:90%
any of you have some balance. I think certainly
1509
01:23:59.789 --> 01:24:01.470 A:middle L:90%
you mentioned indexing and that's it's a It's a hard
1510
01:24:01.479 --> 01:24:04.600 A:middle L:90%
task. Um, uh huh. You guys are
1511
01:24:04.600 --> 01:24:10.239 A:middle L:90%
professional at indexing information, in some sense, and
1512
01:24:10.250 --> 01:24:15.079 A:middle L:90%
I was not professional. I had create the index
1513
01:24:15.090 --> 01:24:17.359 A:middle L:90%
after reading a couple of things online about here's here's
1514
01:24:17.359 --> 01:24:18.899 A:middle L:90%
some advice for how to do that. I mean
1515
01:24:18.899 --> 01:24:21.710 A:middle L:90%
, having even a 10 minute conversation with the librarian
1516
01:24:21.710 --> 01:24:24.430 A:middle L:90%
about Here's some things you can think about might have
1517
01:24:24.430 --> 01:24:28.529 A:middle L:90%
been useful. Um, maybe this isn't necessarily a
1518
01:24:28.529 --> 01:24:30.029 A:middle L:90%
cup of tea, either. Um, apart from
1519
01:24:30.029 --> 01:24:32.729 A:middle L:90%
the mathematical side of things, I'm not necessarily a
1520
01:24:32.739 --> 01:24:36.310 A:middle L:90%
writer, Um, and so having someone who's not
1521
01:24:36.310 --> 01:24:39.600 A:middle L:90%
necessarily mathematical read my book and say this is a
1522
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:43.819 A:middle L:90%
run on sentence. Use far too many comments and
1523
01:24:43.829 --> 01:24:47.500 A:middle L:90%
and you think semicolons are free and they're not.
1524
01:24:47.510 --> 01:24:50.750 A:middle L:90%
To have someone from that perspective would have been very
1525
01:24:50.750 --> 01:24:54.420 A:middle L:90%
beneficial to me in the point where I, um
1526
01:24:54.590 --> 01:24:56.270 A:middle L:90%
I've toyed with the idea of hiring someone to do
1527
01:24:56.270 --> 01:25:00.300 A:middle L:90%
that for the book just to make it better again
1528
01:25:00.300 --> 01:25:01.020 A:middle L:90%
. I I used to think publishers did that for
1529
01:25:01.020 --> 01:25:02.800 A:middle L:90%
you, and I talked to the different authors.
1530
01:25:02.800 --> 01:25:04.380 A:middle L:90%
I found that that wasn't the case. And again
1531
01:25:04.380 --> 01:25:06.239 A:middle L:90%
it was we sent out to people. And every
1532
01:25:06.239 --> 01:25:09.310 A:middle L:90%
once in a while we get a comment from some
1533
01:25:09.310 --> 01:25:12.260 A:middle L:90%
person in Albuquerque saying, You know, this sentence
1534
01:25:12.260 --> 01:25:13.649 A:middle L:90%
right here happens to be too long. I just
1535
01:25:13.649 --> 01:25:15.340 A:middle L:90%
happened to notice that I thought I got it down
1536
01:25:15.350 --> 01:25:16.489 A:middle L:90%
. Okay, I'll fix that one sentence but fixes
1537
01:25:16.489 --> 01:25:20.050 A:middle L:90%
one problem of perhaps a poorly written book that no
1538
01:25:20.050 --> 01:25:28.619 A:middle L:90%
one else has mentioned. So from Pisa encouraging a
1539
01:25:28.630 --> 01:25:34.649 A:middle L:90%
dialogue. Uh huh. Posting online environment for a
1540
01:25:34.659 --> 01:25:39.130 A:middle L:90%
book or open educational resource to be able to allow
1541
01:25:39.140 --> 01:25:43.909 A:middle L:90%
readers of students to be I uh huh, mhm
1542
01:25:44.590 --> 01:25:51.569 A:middle L:90%
period. So, yes, getting good student feedback
1543
01:25:51.569 --> 01:25:54.819 A:middle L:90%
about a book, especially anonymous feedback. They don't
1544
01:25:54.819 --> 01:25:57.729 A:middle L:90%
feel like they're pressure to give you. No,
1545
01:25:57.729 --> 01:26:01.210 A:middle L:90%
it would be great. True user experiences of How
1546
01:26:01.210 --> 01:26:02.489 A:middle L:90%
does the book field are you? How does it
1547
01:26:02.500 --> 01:26:04.090 A:middle L:90%
read? What do you find? Complicated? I
1548
01:26:04.090 --> 01:26:09.930 A:middle L:90%
think that would be great, I think. Promoting
1549
01:26:09.939 --> 01:26:13.369 A:middle L:90%
for the box among university and among students because I
1550
01:26:13.369 --> 01:26:16.319 A:middle L:90%
believe you are currently promoting for this open access box
1551
01:26:16.319 --> 01:26:19.189 A:middle L:90%
and everyone coming to the library can find them and
1552
01:26:19.199 --> 01:26:21.210 A:middle L:90%
check them, and they decided to buy or not
1553
01:26:21.680 --> 01:26:26.869 A:middle L:90%
. So if the library publishing services can do something
1554
01:26:26.869 --> 01:26:29.550 A:middle L:90%
like this, which is collect, professors and students
1555
01:26:29.550 --> 01:26:31.380 A:middle L:90%
know about this kind of open access books. I
1556
01:26:31.390 --> 01:26:35.399 A:middle L:90%
believe it would be a good thing to help their
1557
01:26:35.409 --> 01:26:40.729 A:middle L:90%
authors write more books or even write better box.
1558
01:26:42.180 --> 01:26:44.510 A:middle L:90%
I also think that part of this is a necessary
1559
01:26:44.510 --> 01:26:45.260 A:middle L:90%
building, a better book. It's building a better
1560
01:26:45.260 --> 01:26:49.270 A:middle L:90%
experience. And so as I listened to Keith and
1561
01:26:49.270 --> 01:26:51.789 A:middle L:90%
Greg talk, what they're talking about is going beyond
1562
01:26:51.789 --> 01:26:55.750 A:middle L:90%
this book structure like the three dimensional images that I
1563
01:26:55.750 --> 01:26:58.380 A:middle L:90%
can now manipulate this be a much better sense of
1564
01:26:58.380 --> 01:26:59.739 A:middle L:90%
that and some of the things that he was doing
1565
01:26:59.739 --> 01:27:01.630 A:middle L:90%
as far as the Java applications of things. So
1566
01:27:01.630 --> 01:27:04.590 A:middle L:90%
it goes beyond building a better book to building a
1567
01:27:04.590 --> 01:27:06.510 A:middle L:90%
better experience, and so I need to do some
1568
01:27:06.510 --> 01:27:09.760 A:middle L:90%
reading. But I didn't want to see it,
1569
01:27:09.810 --> 01:27:11.680 A:middle L:90%
so I want to see those planes interact, and
1570
01:27:11.680 --> 01:27:13.449 A:middle L:90%
how do I do that? And how does that
1571
01:27:13.449 --> 01:27:15.909 A:middle L:90%
create a better learning experience. So I think sometimes
1572
01:27:17.180 --> 01:27:19.029 A:middle L:90%
we've got words that mean certain things, like a
1573
01:27:19.039 --> 01:27:20.399 A:middle L:90%
buck. When I think of a book, I
1574
01:27:20.399 --> 01:27:23.829 A:middle L:90%
think of this, But in the conversation, I
1575
01:27:23.829 --> 01:27:25.909 A:middle L:90%
think this is limiting because I know what he has
1576
01:27:25.909 --> 01:27:28.880 A:middle L:90%
online is more than this. You've got all the
1577
01:27:28.890 --> 01:27:30.600 A:middle L:90%
interactive kind of components that don't fit in a book
1578
01:27:31.079 --> 01:27:32.779 A:middle L:90%
. And so on some level, and you say
1579
01:27:32.779 --> 01:27:34.550 A:middle L:90%
what what can we do to help? My thought
1580
01:27:34.550 --> 01:27:38.350 A:middle L:90%
is, how do we move beyond the word and
1581
01:27:38.350 --> 01:27:40.909 A:middle L:90%
start to move into the idea which is going to
1582
01:27:40.909 --> 01:27:44.789 A:middle L:90%
require different types of media, which is what you
1583
01:27:44.789 --> 01:27:46.399 A:middle L:90%
guys are doing and how do we leverage what you
1584
01:27:46.399 --> 01:27:51.239 A:middle L:90%
guys are now entering into, And that builds a
1585
01:27:51.250 --> 01:27:57.250 A:middle L:90%
better learning experience? Mm hmm. Where is your
1586
01:27:57.260 --> 01:28:00.819 A:middle L:90%
online version hosting? Is that sitting on a server
1587
01:28:00.819 --> 01:28:04.600 A:middle L:90%
on your desk or as a secure place? It's
1588
01:28:05.069 --> 01:28:08.340 A:middle L:90%
mhm. I started off with just on the VM
1589
01:28:08.340 --> 01:28:10.039 A:middle L:90%
, my website. I made a page for it
1590
01:28:10.050 --> 01:28:13.819 A:middle L:90%
, talking about yeah, what we call Apex,
1591
01:28:13.819 --> 01:28:15.399 A:middle L:90%
the affordable print and electronic textbooks. Then we try
1592
01:28:15.399 --> 01:28:17.199 A:middle L:90%
to get a lot of people working together, and
1593
01:28:17.210 --> 01:28:19.390 A:middle L:90%
it hasn't grown as much as we want it to
1594
01:28:19.399 --> 01:28:21.760 A:middle L:90%
, but that's where the apex of Apex cotton fields
1595
01:28:21.760 --> 01:28:25.489 A:middle L:90%
comes from. Um, so we started doing that
1596
01:28:25.500 --> 01:28:28.869 A:middle L:90%
. And then when I found out I wasn't promoting
1597
01:28:28.869 --> 01:28:30.710 A:middle L:90%
the book all that much just because I wasn't sure
1598
01:28:30.710 --> 01:28:31.779 A:middle L:90%
it was ready. I want to make sure it
1599
01:28:31.779 --> 01:28:33.590 A:middle L:90%
was good before I told everyone about it. And
1600
01:28:33.590 --> 01:28:35.829 A:middle L:90%
then, um, a large state school in California
1601
01:28:35.829 --> 01:28:39.439 A:middle L:90%
contacted me and said, We're thinking about we're gonna
1602
01:28:39.449 --> 01:28:41.729 A:middle L:90%
We're gonna pilot it in the spring, maybe full
1603
01:28:41.729 --> 01:28:44.449 A:middle L:90%
adoption in the fall. And, um, we
1604
01:28:44.449 --> 01:28:48.250 A:middle L:90%
have 26,000 students and, uh, so that I
1605
01:28:48.250 --> 01:28:51.130 A:middle L:90%
thought I should I should be more proactive about advertising
1606
01:28:51.130 --> 01:28:53.689 A:middle L:90%
this. That's where I had that website. So
1607
01:28:53.699 --> 01:28:57.340 A:middle L:90%
on fx calculus dot com, you can find out
1608
01:28:57.340 --> 01:28:58.989 A:middle L:90%
more than you ever want to know about the book
1609
01:28:59.000 --> 01:29:00.369 A:middle L:90%
. So I hosted it there. And then there's
1610
01:29:00.369 --> 01:29:02.800 A:middle L:90%
a place called Git Hub, which has a code
1611
01:29:02.840 --> 01:29:05.649 A:middle L:90%
. Um, I post all the source files there
1612
01:29:05.659 --> 01:29:08.800 A:middle L:90%
so people to download. So that's sort of where
1613
01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:11.989 A:middle L:90%
it lives. For people to find into the impact
1614
01:29:12.369 --> 01:29:15.399 A:middle L:90%
Mhm. Right. And then And I personally in
1615
01:29:15.399 --> 01:29:17.520 A:middle L:90%
all my computer at school, I I back up
1616
01:29:17.529 --> 01:29:20.460 A:middle L:90%
every week. Um then we have our own servers
1617
01:29:20.470 --> 01:29:23.270 A:middle L:90%
at school that I back up to. And then
1618
01:29:23.270 --> 01:29:25.470 A:middle L:90%
every week I put something in Dropbox and then on
1619
01:29:25.470 --> 01:29:28.680 A:middle L:90%
my Microsoft live, I mean exists in lots of
1620
01:29:28.680 --> 01:29:30.630 A:middle L:90%
secure places, just in case something crashes. I
1621
01:29:30.630 --> 01:29:33.810 A:middle L:90%
won't cry. Have a safety there back to some
1622
01:29:33.810 --> 01:29:36.340 A:middle L:90%
things you're saying to about. And how can a
1623
01:29:36.340 --> 01:29:40.829 A:middle L:90%
librarian help? One very practical thing that's that's not
1624
01:29:40.840 --> 01:29:45.109 A:middle L:90%
all that exciting is the process of taking my files
1625
01:29:45.109 --> 01:29:46.470 A:middle L:90%
and actually making a book out of it. Um
1626
01:29:46.479 --> 01:29:48.100 A:middle L:90%
, there's a bit of a learning curve to that
1627
01:29:48.109 --> 01:29:50.130 A:middle L:90%
. And so from the librarian standpoint, you maybe
1628
01:29:50.130 --> 01:29:53.460 A:middle L:90%
you could help saying, Hey, we have resources
1629
01:29:53.460 --> 01:29:55.689 A:middle L:90%
if you want to. Actually, you have course
1630
01:29:55.689 --> 01:29:58.279 A:middle L:90%
materials. We can help you compile this into a
1631
01:29:58.279 --> 01:30:00.720 A:middle L:90%
book like my friend, um, who made this
1632
01:30:00.720 --> 01:30:03.550 A:middle L:90%
little Matt loud thing. He has noticed no dreams
1633
01:30:03.560 --> 01:30:06.409 A:middle L:90%
of people adopting this across the country. It was
1634
01:30:06.409 --> 01:30:09.520 A:middle L:90%
for our students, but it's still a nice little
1635
01:30:09.520 --> 01:30:11.720 A:middle L:90%
package for him, and it took him a little
1636
01:30:11.720 --> 01:30:14.649 A:middle L:90%
while to figure out how to get that done.
1637
01:30:14.659 --> 01:30:15.350 A:middle L:90%
And that would be something that you know, for
1638
01:30:15.359 --> 01:30:18.989 A:middle L:90%
a localized thing, just I have materials. It
1639
01:30:19.000 --> 01:30:20.380 A:middle L:90%
would be nice if I had a little package.
1640
01:30:20.380 --> 01:30:23.760 A:middle L:90%
How can How can you walk me through that process
1641
01:30:23.770 --> 01:30:26.880 A:middle L:90%
? Then the better thing that you're alluding to is
1642
01:30:27.659 --> 01:30:29.970 A:middle L:90%
sure I've looked at your book. That's great.
1643
01:30:30.659 --> 01:30:33.140 A:middle L:90%
I saw someone else in a different field doing this
1644
01:30:33.140 --> 01:30:35.210 A:middle L:90%
kind of thing. I wonder if you could look
1645
01:30:35.210 --> 01:30:39.260 A:middle L:90%
at that because you guys have such a broad scope
1646
01:30:39.270 --> 01:30:42.250 A:middle L:90%
of what's out there and I have such a limited
1647
01:30:42.260 --> 01:30:44.710 A:middle L:90%
math scope of everything. And then if you could
1648
01:30:44.710 --> 01:30:46.060 A:middle L:90%
say, you know, I saw Veterinarian Sciences doing
1649
01:30:46.060 --> 01:30:47.609 A:middle L:90%
something like this, I wonder if you could do
1650
01:30:47.609 --> 01:30:50.109 A:middle L:90%
something similar in Count three. I have no idea
1651
01:30:50.109 --> 01:30:53.529 A:middle L:90%
what veterinary sciences that do, but you guys seem
1652
01:30:53.529 --> 01:30:54.949 A:middle L:90%
to have your fingers and everything. At least the
1653
01:30:54.949 --> 01:30:56.350 A:middle L:90%
librarians. I talked to a B M. I
1654
01:30:56.359 --> 01:30:58.680 A:middle L:90%
do. And so the next. Oh, that'd
1655
01:30:58.680 --> 01:31:00.220 A:middle L:90%
be pretty cool. And I don't know how to
1656
01:31:00.220 --> 01:31:01.829 A:middle L:90%
get that dialogue started, but it would be something
1657
01:31:01.829 --> 01:31:05.869 A:middle L:90%
that I think would be very useful. Okay,
1658
01:31:06.260 --> 01:31:10.810 A:middle L:90%
Mhm feel like the students, one goat and online
1659
01:31:10.819 --> 01:31:14.560 A:middle L:90%
content and the hard copy. I do. I
1660
01:31:14.569 --> 01:31:17.680 A:middle L:90%
at first. At first I didn't care if they
1661
01:31:17.689 --> 01:31:20.420 A:middle L:90%
printed up a copy had a paper copy. And
1662
01:31:20.420 --> 01:31:26.439 A:middle L:90%
now I tell them, Get a paper copy somehow
1663
01:31:26.449 --> 01:31:29.619 A:middle L:90%
. Um, I do make a profit off of
1664
01:31:29.619 --> 01:31:30.770 A:middle L:90%
it, and I tell them that. So if
1665
01:31:30.770 --> 01:31:32.399 A:middle L:90%
you bite in the bookstore, I get about two
1666
01:31:32.399 --> 01:31:35.699 A:middle L:90%
bucks back. But you can print BME. They
1667
01:31:35.699 --> 01:31:38.289 A:middle L:90%
have free printing, which is stupid, but they
1668
01:31:38.300 --> 01:31:40.859 A:middle L:90%
do and so just printed for free if you want
1669
01:31:40.859 --> 01:31:42.810 A:middle L:90%
to, um, and go forward. But I
1670
01:31:42.810 --> 01:31:45.279 A:middle L:90%
think you're gonna want to have the electronic version and
1671
01:31:45.279 --> 01:31:47.939 A:middle L:90%
a paper copy that you can write in. And
1672
01:31:47.939 --> 01:31:50.039 A:middle L:90%
then again, this is It's like I'm plugging my
1673
01:31:50.039 --> 01:31:51.369 A:middle L:90%
book and all that kind of stuff. It's not
1674
01:31:51.369 --> 01:31:55.989 A:middle L:90%
really but one thing we realized when I sat down
1675
01:31:55.989 --> 01:31:59.729 A:middle L:90%
to design the page. Um, my friend Troy
1676
01:31:59.739 --> 01:32:00.340 A:middle L:90%
, my department had said, Is there a way
1677
01:32:00.340 --> 01:32:01.850 A:middle L:90%
that we can look at the page and design it
1678
01:32:01.850 --> 01:32:05.050 A:middle L:90%
differently? And we realized that textbook companies try to
1679
01:32:05.050 --> 01:32:09.729 A:middle L:90%
maximize information on a page, and if you look
1680
01:32:09.729 --> 01:32:12.430 A:middle L:90%
at a regular book, it can be very,
1681
01:32:12.430 --> 01:32:15.430 A:middle L:90%
very dense. There's colors everywhere these big orange boxes
1682
01:32:15.430 --> 01:32:17.550 A:middle L:90%
and green box in the blue box and all this
1683
01:32:17.550 --> 01:32:19.869 A:middle L:90%
stuff, and they pack information on there. And
1684
01:32:19.869 --> 01:32:21.840 A:middle L:90%
so then his idea was at the bottom of each
1685
01:32:21.840 --> 01:32:25.770 A:middle L:90%
page. Put a white space two inches for notes
1686
01:32:26.149 --> 01:32:27.739 A:middle L:90%
. I want you, I want you to write
1687
01:32:27.739 --> 01:32:30.840 A:middle L:90%
in the book,$12. Just write in the
1688
01:32:30.840 --> 01:32:31.720 A:middle L:90%
book. Don't try to sell it back. And
1689
01:32:31.720 --> 01:32:33.750 A:middle L:90%
so I find my students doing that. Either in
1690
01:32:33.750 --> 01:32:36.510 A:middle L:90%
this copy or the things they point out that they're
1691
01:32:36.510 --> 01:32:39.260 A:middle L:90%
actually writing in the book and they'll come into me
1692
01:32:39.260 --> 01:32:40.770 A:middle L:90%
and they have it all dog here. Then things
1693
01:32:40.770 --> 01:32:42.850 A:middle L:90%
are written in there and they have that space there
1694
01:32:42.850 --> 01:32:44.600 A:middle L:90%
, and I think that's pretty cool. I'm glad
1695
01:32:44.609 --> 01:32:47.229 A:middle L:90%
Troy had that idea. Um, because again,
1696
01:32:47.239 --> 01:32:51.720 A:middle L:90%
it's their book, and I hear people talking that
1697
01:32:51.720 --> 01:32:55.119 A:middle L:90%
the next generation of students are going to live in
1698
01:32:55.119 --> 01:32:57.149 A:middle L:90%
the cloud. They're going to do everything on their
1699
01:32:57.149 --> 01:33:00.689 A:middle L:90%
ipads, and maybe that's true. Um, right
1700
01:33:00.689 --> 01:33:02.260 A:middle L:90%
now it's not. They still want a paper copy
1701
01:33:03.250 --> 01:33:05.220 A:middle L:90%
when when my students are working on things and they
1702
01:33:05.220 --> 01:33:08.810 A:middle L:90%
have to write in them, even though they're very
1703
01:33:08.810 --> 01:33:10.960 A:middle L:90%
literate with all the various tools, they say they
1704
01:33:10.960 --> 01:33:12.840 A:middle L:90%
need to print them out for that kind of process
1705
01:33:12.840 --> 01:33:15.319 A:middle L:90%
through them. So I think that it's valuable to
1706
01:33:15.319 --> 01:33:21.159 A:middle L:90%
have something they can do that? Yes. So
1707
01:33:23.149 --> 01:33:27.880 A:middle L:90%
you mentioned writing something. Visual 100 books. And
1708
01:33:28.449 --> 01:33:34.239 A:middle L:90%
with software job usually loverboy. Mhm. I was
1709
01:33:34.239 --> 01:33:44.579 A:middle L:90%
wondering if has had issues where the environment, uh
1710
01:33:45.050 --> 01:33:48.859 A:middle L:90%
, we're using for the media have changed. What
1711
01:33:48.869 --> 01:34:00.359 A:middle L:90%
you had was working a mhm, um, Keith
1712
01:34:00.359 --> 01:34:03.760 A:middle L:90%
answering the second two out jump in. But so
1713
01:34:03.770 --> 01:34:05.500 A:middle L:90%
right now, that three d thing that I showed
1714
01:34:05.500 --> 01:34:10.229 A:middle L:90%
you that works Natively and Adobe Reader, Adobe Acrobat
1715
01:34:10.239 --> 01:34:12.840 A:middle L:90%
only, um, there is something that will be
1716
01:34:12.840 --> 01:34:15.779 A:middle L:90%
supports and most other pdf readers. It's just it's
1717
01:34:15.789 --> 01:34:16.449 A:middle L:90%
overhead that they don't want to take on, which
1718
01:34:16.460 --> 01:34:18.609 A:middle L:90%
I think is fantastic for most of my pdf reading
1719
01:34:18.609 --> 01:34:20.630 A:middle L:90%
. I don't want that either. So I only
1720
01:34:20.630 --> 01:34:24.039 A:middle L:90%
use reader when I want to manipulate that in the
1721
01:34:24.039 --> 01:34:25.789 A:middle L:90%
back of my head. I'm not sure how long
1722
01:34:25.789 --> 01:34:27.649 A:middle L:90%
and nobody is going to support that. And so
1723
01:34:27.649 --> 01:34:30.479 A:middle L:90%
I kind of wonder I had these cool graphics and
1724
01:34:30.479 --> 01:34:32.460 A:middle L:90%
then in a couple of years, Adobe 12 comes
1725
01:34:32.460 --> 01:34:34.270 A:middle L:90%
out and they said they dropped it, and then
1726
01:34:35.640 --> 01:34:38.310 A:middle L:90%
I'll cross that when I get there. But I
1727
01:34:38.319 --> 01:34:43.710 A:middle L:90%
do kind of wonder about that. Oh, you
1728
01:34:43.710 --> 01:34:47.130 A:middle L:90%
look fairly young that I suspect you probably at least
1729
01:34:47.130 --> 01:34:53.359 A:middle L:90%
remember that at one time of Apple Macintosh is used
1730
01:34:53.939 --> 01:34:56.539 A:middle L:90%
, um, a different operating system than the one
1731
01:34:56.539 --> 01:34:59.689 A:middle L:90%
that they use. Now, Um, we were
1732
01:34:59.689 --> 01:35:02.560 A:middle L:90%
using a software package for a course that I taught
1733
01:35:03.140 --> 01:35:05.880 A:middle L:90%
that did not have a Windows version. It ran
1734
01:35:05.890 --> 01:35:10.470 A:middle L:90%
only on Mac OS, and this was Mac OS
1735
01:35:10.479 --> 01:35:13.659 A:middle L:90%
six or Mac OS seven. And we used it
1736
01:35:13.659 --> 01:35:15.710 A:middle L:90%
for the first couple of years on the Macintosh is
1737
01:35:15.710 --> 01:35:19.489 A:middle L:90%
that we had in the math Emporium and when Mac
1738
01:35:19.500 --> 01:35:25.899 A:middle L:90%
changed from they're old os to their OS X,
1739
01:35:25.899 --> 01:35:29.060 A:middle L:90%
or whatever they call it now that stopped working.
1740
01:35:29.539 --> 01:35:31.710 A:middle L:90%
And it was actually One of the impetus is for
1741
01:35:31.710 --> 01:35:36.270 A:middle L:90%
me to look for something else that I could use
1742
01:35:36.270 --> 01:35:40.439 A:middle L:90%
with this course. And so we found we found
1743
01:35:40.439 --> 01:35:45.520 A:middle L:90%
an openly licensed software that had a steeper learning curve
1744
01:35:45.520 --> 01:35:46.430 A:middle L:90%
. To be honest, it was is a harder
1745
01:35:46.439 --> 01:35:49.710 A:middle L:90%
software to learn how to use than than what we
1746
01:35:49.710 --> 01:35:51.890 A:middle L:90%
had been using. But it worked, and and
1747
01:35:51.890 --> 01:35:55.960 A:middle L:90%
that was a a big thing for us. So
1748
01:35:56.439 --> 01:35:59.770 A:middle L:90%
, in fact, yes, that happens, and
1749
01:36:00.430 --> 01:36:02.380 A:middle L:90%
at least something good came out of it because we
1750
01:36:02.380 --> 01:36:05.949 A:middle L:90%
actually ended up using a an open source program to
1751
01:36:05.949 --> 01:36:10.270 A:middle L:90%
replace a close source program. Um, and there
1752
01:36:10.270 --> 01:36:11.569 A:middle L:90%
was there. Like I said, there was a
1753
01:36:11.569 --> 01:36:15.619 A:middle L:90%
little bit of a we had to budget time for
1754
01:36:15.619 --> 01:36:17.729 A:middle L:90%
teaching the software because the learning curve was a little
1755
01:36:17.729 --> 01:36:20.489 A:middle L:90%
more difficult. It was a little more sophisticated than
1756
01:36:20.500 --> 01:36:24.840 A:middle L:90%
what we had been using, but we were very
1757
01:36:24.840 --> 01:36:30.010 A:middle L:90%
happy with the results. Yes, Mhm. Good
1758
01:36:30.010 --> 01:36:35.890 A:middle L:90%
questions. Okay. Lots to talk about. Well
1759
01:36:35.899 --> 01:36:41.020 A:middle L:90%
, we were at 5. 45. There's food
1760
01:36:41.020 --> 01:36:45.090 A:middle L:90%
and love for folks to You want to stick around
1761
01:36:45.100 --> 01:36:47.430 A:middle L:90%
? Thank you so much. Each of you for
1762
01:36:47.430 --> 01:37:06.460 A:middle L:90%
coming and oh.