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It's great to have you all again here. I'm

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certain that you um came last night. Uh I had

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a revelation population that it was an extraordinary event. It is

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something that moved us deeply. They made beautiful arguments that they

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about artification with a number of institutes, a number of

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institutions, a number of schools that have marked the history of

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Virginia Tech, but also the history of educational architecture. And suddenly he moved us into talking about

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not so much about the authors, but also about the architecture

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and certainly the life [inaudible] has participated in

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certainly most of you have some affiliation, some knowledge, read some of his books [inaudible]. So I'd like to basically

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open them up to the audience today. I don't

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have very many questions but maybe if I may

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start with just one here. And I'm sure

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you know, the Foundation of Modern Art by Ozenfant. And

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my question that I asked of myself because there is um

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a fascination with this school, with not only architecture

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but its lineage with the Bauhaus and so with the

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school of [inaudible].

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So I'll just read here from the book the Foundation of Modern Art by Ozenfant

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The distinguishing feature of great beauty

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is that first it should surprise to an indifferent

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degree, which, continuing then augmenting , is finally changed to wonder

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and admiration. My question is, can we still

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think of buildings that way today? Because you mentioned

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um often have [inaudible]

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[inaudible] century. I would like

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to know today how our buildings approach. Is it

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uh slow maturation and acceptance and suddenly wonder? Or is

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it, wow, this is a great building and we move on by

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the way to the next one. Okay, ooh, so

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should stand up? Um, maybe I prefer to

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stand up, I think ah yeah, you know,

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I think [inaudible]  start to sort

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of start to one side of the question, which

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is in a yes, [inaudible] building way of thinking there's a

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[inaudible] from [inaudible] what are poets for in a destitute time?

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And I think it could be translated into architecture

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quite easily. What are architects for in a destitute time?

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And that's one thought in reaction to that.

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The other thought is um you know, you can't

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make good work if the client doesn't desire something,

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if the client just wants to make money or the

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client is bureaucratic and it's all cost benefit or something

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like that, then already ones not in a good

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position because there's no real desire for something of,

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of cultural quality and significant. That's the second thing

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I would say. Then, I think the third

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thing is that although we live in the destitute time

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with barbaric production all over the place, above all in

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China, but everywhere, of course, at the

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same time, there's the paradox that there is,

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I think very refined work being done everywhere. And

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and part of that, I think that part of

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the benefits of the bump of pre-internet even,

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of information and communication etcetera etcetera, is that provinciality

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doesn't well provinciality only exists in

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the negative sense, you know, particularly maybe in

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New York that thinks of itself as the center of

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the world from time to time, but, you

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know, that's already disastrous fixation, I think.

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And if you look with wide open eyes, there

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is work of quality being done everywhere. And then

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one comes to a Montesquieu quote, because I think

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that this quality that Montesquieu describes is only possible when

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there is desire on the part of the client,

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when the the situation or the location, you know,

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creates an environment in which that can this condition

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of beauty, let's say, which I never talk

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about beauty, which is that's an embarrassing term,

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I think. And uh and I think I you

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know, it's unfortunate. One doesn't from everyone,

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you know, that's a difficult term to use,

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but maybe the term form could be used more overtly

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than I've ever used it. And then also the

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question of, you know, what, what do

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we mean by that, etcetera, form, and so on.

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But I think I think that that's possible.

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What I'm trying to in a circular way, get

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out, you know, in unexpected places and unexpected

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moments, more limited situation and and yeah, fragile

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limited situations. But I mean, you know,

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I think like we never talk about it, or

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at least when I say we I mean, you

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know, the well, anyway, my circle in

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Colombia doesn't talk about it, which is, you

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know, Australia, for example, you know,

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Sydney in particular, I mean, an extraordinary culture

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of architecture in Sydney, of course, we do

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know about glen market, but there are many other

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figures. No, Yes, and also Melbourne,

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you know, anyway, in Australia, all together

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, you know, there is this culture of architecture

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which in a way, I mean my colleagues anyway

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, don't have anything, nothing to say about Australia

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too far away other than Glenn market. That is

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, who is of course, very distinguished. Um

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for example, you know, or for me,

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Dublin also has a very beautiful, still very vibrant

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cultural arctic and, and for me, more important

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than London for example, although there is of course

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very talented architects in London. I'm not just talking

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about talented artists. I'm talking about a culture of

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architecture, you know, where perhaps this question of

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scale and so that this question of wonder and yes,

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I mean, that's possible. I think under

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those conditions, so not really nothing. Yes,

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related to that. Towards the end of your lecture

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, you presented this ethical dilemma uh specifically called out

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these two mega projects in China CCTv and the Beijing

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stadium. And I'm curious if you feel is it

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possible for a mega project to get this is the

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Beijing airport project or even going back, you know

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, to a similar building boom in Japan, the

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airport. No, mm hmm. Yeah. Well

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, first of all, I think it's got to

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do with the use of material. So, the

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, I mean the cancer airport makes an intelligent use

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of steel as a structure, structural materials and it

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is a kind of poetic of construction, which is

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also related an economy of construction. It is an

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articulate no work. It's an articulate built, constructive

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work. I would very refined details and so on

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. And it's not flagrant, excessive indifference. And

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I think, you know, CCTV is a total

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flagrant no, yeah, more or less mindless use

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of the material to do. I don't know what

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to create an image and packed with steel. It's

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a bit like Zahar's early building for Vitra, This

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so called fire station, you know, which is

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packed with steel. So you can hardly get the

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concrete into it, you know, And, and

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so it's another, you know, it's a much

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smaller scale. But yeah, it's kind of unethical

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I think, and also horrific and and also a

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useless fire station. They could never use it as

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a fire station. They have to use it as

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a rather unfortunate furniture museum, you know, horrible

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work and and uh, you know, yeah,

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well, you should have very beautiful paintings at the

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beginning and so on and anyway, I don't want

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to get sidetracked into that. But so I think

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, you know, well, Kansas Airport, I

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think it is a but as far as I'm concerned

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, it's ethical, within the limits of of the

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fact that, you know, international travel, jet

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aircraft, etcetera, part of our way of life

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. And therefore, I think it's a responsible work

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and yeah, so I think, yes, I

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would say it is possible, it's a question of

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attitude. You know, I actually, over lunch

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of it, Reagan asked me about this practice in

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now, I can't remember. It's obviously Freudian repression

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. Neither the the name of the little town north

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of Barcelona nor the name of the architects they practice

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under the name RCR and they are very, you

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know, their minimalist, they're very sensitive. They

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, you know, in a way ostensibly they do

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good work. But then I was supposed to write

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a piece about them and I went through all the

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work and all the rest of it for the magazine

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. Well cock tease. Then I as I went

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on seeing the work, I realized they use steel

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as though as though it's nothing, they don't use

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it in the same flamboyant, irresponsible way of those

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two buildings in Beijing. But nonetheless use steel,

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they use it on the floor, use it all

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over the place. And I came back to new

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york and I had to write a letter to al

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cookies and to them saying I can't write this piece

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because I can't take it is used to this material

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in this fanatical fashion. You know, apart from

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the question of expense and all that, you know

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, it was kind of, what does that mean

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using this material? I found it. So it's

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not only an ethical question, maybe follow up,

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are you suggesting that good buildings carrying cultural control the

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expression of them all structure and building? Yeah.

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The promises. Mhm. I mean, you know

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, if you look at all those villa Maria,

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well, for that matter, if you look at

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yes, I have had a colleague friend yes,

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caught up who actually tried to do a thesis.

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Did in fact write a thesis interpreting the work of

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from the sort of tectonic standpoint? That was rather

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difficult. You know, because so I don't think

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one can just become fanatical about that issue. I

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mean, I or if you think about us villa

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Maria for example, the structure of the columns are

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expressed. But you can't you know, it involves

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both expression and suppression. And so I don't think

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one can say, well, I only I'm only

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interested in an architecture which is totally, you know

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, like the Gothic expressive of the structure. In

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any case, of course there never can be totally

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absolute pure. Well, except in the most simple

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buildings imaginable. Uh you know, direct literal expression

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. Structure as a virtue in and of itself.

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You know, I think I actually I coined these

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terms and studies in tectonic culture of differentiating between what

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do they call it now. I can't even remember

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I tried to distinguish between. Yes, I think

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yes, between ontological tectonic and representational tectonic because if

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you think of a Doric column, you know that

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too simplistic but made out of these separate cylinders and

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tapered and all the rest of it, you know

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, then the flutes have a function to produce the

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representation of the colony without the flutes there's no no

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column. Right? And if you think of a

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japanese house where the where the structure, you know

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, that could be other structures of course primitive agricultural

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buildings, where the structure is the structure ontological tectonic

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, there is no representation, it is what it

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is. But I think that you know, the

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culture of architecture is runs this full range of the

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culture of architecture. Building runs this full range,

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you know, and you would be primitive, not

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too, you know, recognize this this aspect.

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You know this question of cladding addressing of the you

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know, all that. Mhm. Okay. Question

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about the use of steel and Blumhouse Seattle library.

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Yeah, well that's a that's a horrifying building altogether

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. I've been to it twice. It's just you

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know, it's a nice place to read a book

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, I don't think so. You know how to

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get into that building and what kind of I mean

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you live in a weird world, you know that

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building, you know, it's so valued and I

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don't know, it's just painful, very painful work

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and With a lot of energy and enthusiasm on the

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part of their clients and novelistic actually the client originally

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wanted two boys Stephen Hall, she had a condition

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which of course wasn't met anyway she said I want

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you that you will give, you won't delegate that

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you will give this building your total attention. Right

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. And so ren told her something sort of course

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he didn't. I mean someone picked up the pieces

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of course, so you know, steve was steve

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wouldn't guarantee, I think it's the story of whole

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wouldn't say give it to his absolute total hands on

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that. So she dropped Stephen went to Poland but

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she's a very intelligent and I don't want to malign

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her. She's a very intelligent, brilliant, amazing

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person, you know, great. But that's the

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amazing thing I think also is the way in which

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clients, you know, even good clients. I

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mean that more and more recently I I feel you

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know that you have this funny thing, you encounter

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people who are really, really bright and really intelligent

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and then as clients for buildings, do you know

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make crazy decisions, you know, or they let

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the architect do what the hell he wants. You

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know? I think that's another thing, I think

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there's dialectic between the clients a desire and an architect

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that is also you know, difficult, right?

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That kind of I think the client is important to

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the client that wants something and understand, you know

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, wants to try to understand what the architect wants

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to do and vice versa and it's not an easy

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game, but I think that it's very disappointing when

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clients of major buildings and you left afterwards thinking well

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why did the client even let the architects do that

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, you know, I mean what kind of responsibility

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is that as a client? And you can say

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, well they don't know anything about that. But

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you have to be really dumb. You know,

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you can see that the building doesn't work for the

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program. It was ostensibly meant I mean I'm thinking

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about the Barnes collection where the entrance to the Barnes

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collection, not understandable designed by the architect, but

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then the client let them do that entrance. You

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know and the client is smart, you know,

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so I don't can't figure it out. You know

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what is it what happened exactly? Because you know

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, you've got crowds of people coming into the building

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a little entrance. You know if it's bad weather

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, you have to go downstairs to dump your coat

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and come back up again. So it's the architect's

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fault, you can say but it's also the client's

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fault. How could the client accept that? So

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I don't understand, I don't understand that. And

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you can't say what the client, you know,

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it doesn't understand architecture that's just useless. What is

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that doing anything? How can that be? Professor

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Professor. Um My question is can architecture become more

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important? And I want to clarify that a little

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bit, which is you and I many people in

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this room live in a, You know, I

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didn't know the 2% world. So so yes.

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How how how can architecture, how can is there

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any way to to spread this this germ to a

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larger proportion of our culture. Yeah. You see

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, I mean, you know, I that's why

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I started with this thing of holden in, you

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know what the poets for in the best time because

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I think, you know, we do live in

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a very not destitute, extremely difficult time. And

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I mean like we believe in democracy, right?

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But you know, do we have a democracy?

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Yeah, it's everything is a difficult question. I

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mean, I think the power of international corporations for

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example, you know, and the the driving force

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of global economy, international corporations, all of that

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. You know, it's part of this panorama of

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this moment of history and for architecture of equality to

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find its place in the panorama. I don't think

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it's so so you know, it's not easy to

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see what could it be, what can it give

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to this? So you can stay on the one

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hand like Renzo building cans, i is working at

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that kind of level, you know? Okay,

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now it's possible maybe in that sense, high tech

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came closer to meeting that answering that at his best

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, but you know, but it also has its

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limits and I think that, I don't know,

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I think one of the situation that there are many

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different ways to practice up. I mean it's clear

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that, you know, architecture schools produce people and

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they find their different way to be and exist and

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etcetera. But I think it was something about the

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sudden um I don't refinement, you know, maybe

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that's only possible here and there small scale city social

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, you know, maybe an intelligent school district or

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you know, here and there something can be done

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, you know. But the bigger picture, I

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think it's very difficult. Mm hmm. What you're

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saying in some sense, there's a need for the

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architect to be an educator in a professional sense.

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I mean he has to in a sense present the

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alternatives to his client and given the means to judge

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them. Thank you. And we all have that

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role. We can't just some of our ideas on

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someone. We expect them to understand why we do

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it. Yeah, something like that. Yes.

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I mean, you, you were talking about Brendan

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before. Uh, one of our students once worked

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in office and actually it was sort of the key

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guy in the office and he showed me one of

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the projects that one was working on at that moment

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that I was there. It was A gigantic about

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160 story mushroom. Mm hmm. That was going

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to be built in one of the major american of

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eastern city. And uh, and uh, yes

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, when it suits their model, you know,

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I couldn't believe it. I mean, who would

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want to, who would want to wake up in

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the morning and see a big mushroom. Even if

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it's not a cloud over his head. Uh,

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it was just absolutely amazing. And when I,

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when I try to describe it for people, I

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guess being partly that educator, I put guide wires

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down from it and thought that, well, they

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could be, they could be transport system to get

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people and goods and things up into that mushroom.

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Oh and well, maybe the mushroom can have a

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nice observatory and something good on top, you know

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? But there is that that role, Don't you

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think that the architect really has to be an intelligent

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educator and bringing his client into a realization of what

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the possibilities are without find a reasonable preference. Yeah

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. Yes. But you know, it's always those

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things so why do something and why not do it

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? You know, I mean what? No,

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or scratching ones left here with one's right hand,

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that kind of perversity. Why, you know,

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what's the problem? You know, why make all

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this, you know, what is all this effort

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about? Like CCTV? You know, I mean

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, what's the why do it, why do it

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? What is the raison D tre behind that?

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You know, I mean between poetry and reason has

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to be, I mean, I think There's two

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aspects of human being and with two you have to

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be brought in relation to each other somehow. I

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think that is what is this game is about and

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this, you know, the drive to prove oneself

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, you know, to be original to be an

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artist that drive, you know, to to make

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this, you know, And so the society will

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notice and and then, you know, you'll become

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a brand and off you go, you know,

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all of that is a is, you know,

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crude motivation, encouraged of course by the society that's

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not at the highest level of development either. And

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um, you know, it's it's a killer,

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you know, in terms of what it produces environmentally

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, but also maybe even in the human life sense

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. Also earlier you mentioned economy and economy of construction

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. Yeah, I'm thinking about the days of the

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middle Ages when they were building with people that didn't

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seem to be a value in those things. In

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other words, if you build that people really cheap

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and did it in a week and a half,

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you wouldn't brag about it, right? You would

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brag about how much time is how much money he

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spent. It seems that that in the 20th century

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, that's very different. It seems fundamentally different in

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that we actually see economy as a good, what

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would be your reaction? Well, that's when we

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look at the the if we think of everything in

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terms of production and consumption, you know, that

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the building then is a commodity, you know,

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so we we got away with it and we produced

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it and we think of it already as an noticeable

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like, you know, it's a good bargain and

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it will wear out and who cares? Anyway,

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we'll move on. I mean, it's got this

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attitude of commodity, right? That's that's the problem

408
00:24:52.609 --> 00:24:59.339 A:middle L:90%
, I think, you know, modification, modification

409
00:24:59.349 --> 00:25:00.130 A:middle L:90%
, you know, and, and you know,

410
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.490 A:middle L:90%
I mean, I think if we think that,

411
00:25:03.500 --> 00:25:04.769 A:middle L:90%
you know, architecture is the kind of world creation

412
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:11.369 A:middle L:90%
, micro, small microcosmic creation of a world,

413
00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:15.200 A:middle L:90%
you know, that should have a certain um,

414
00:25:15.210 --> 00:25:19.440 A:middle L:90%
yes, aspiration to durability, then it's not,

415
00:25:19.569 --> 00:25:22.559 A:middle L:90%
then that attitude already isn't the attitude of commodity,

416
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:26.630 A:middle L:90%
but if we're talking about cost benefit, rock bottom

417
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.240 A:middle L:90%
, you know, I mean, it's already a

418
00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:33.720 A:middle L:90%
commodity. So we we are lost already the society

419
00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:36.380 A:middle L:90%
, the client, the architect, the whole lot

420
00:25:36.670 --> 00:25:40.930 A:middle L:90%
is lost in the in this maelstrom of Yeah,

421
00:25:40.940 --> 00:25:48.089 A:middle L:90%
that kind of calculation. Yeah. Right. Well

422
00:25:48.099 --> 00:25:51.369 A:middle L:90%
, the idea is you could, you should consume

423
00:25:51.369 --> 00:25:57.319 A:middle L:90%
everything, right? Human beings, everything. That's

424
00:25:57.319 --> 00:26:00.839 A:middle L:90%
the idea, you should consume everything. Yeah,

425
00:26:00.940 --> 00:26:04.359 A:middle L:90%
that's a horror. Of course we're stuck in it

426
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:10.740 A:middle L:90%
. That's my question is that a lot of economies

427
00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:14.259 A:middle L:90%
and a lot of clients sophisticated or not, are

428
00:26:14.269 --> 00:26:18.500 A:middle L:90%
kind of demanding these kinds of buildings, bigger buildings

429
00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:21.000 A:middle L:90%
. And so it strikes me when I see you

430
00:26:21.009 --> 00:26:23.960 A:middle L:90%
present last night, these two larger scale call them

431
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:29.309 A:middle L:90%
civic or negative projects or whatever they are, compare

432
00:26:29.309 --> 00:26:32.579 A:middle L:90%
them with some other uh smaller scale works, which

433
00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:36.859 A:middle L:90%
are making a very interesting link between tradition and innovation

434
00:26:36.869 --> 00:26:41.059 A:middle L:90%
and I'm, I guess I'm looking for uh similar

435
00:26:41.059 --> 00:26:42.750 A:middle L:90%
to maybe the first couple of questions, are there

436
00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:48.450 A:middle L:90%
some specific examples of larger scale projects that you believe

437
00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:52.670 A:middle L:90%
are either successfully doing what the other two aren't on

438
00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:56.170 A:middle L:90%
a large scale or, and or making that kind

439
00:26:56.170 --> 00:26:59.619 A:middle L:90%
of link between tradition and innovation. Now, you

440
00:26:59.619 --> 00:27:02.019 A:middle L:90%
know, there's a building I greatly admire in Barcelona

441
00:27:02.019 --> 00:27:03.799 A:middle L:90%
which is called L. A. Block which was

442
00:27:03.809 --> 00:27:08.200 A:middle L:90%
designed by Antonio and by manual the solar morality and

443
00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:11.269 A:middle L:90%
was and was paid for its investment by winter tour

444
00:27:11.269 --> 00:27:15.789 A:middle L:90%
insurance company. And it's a long block that runs

445
00:27:15.789 --> 00:27:18.559 A:middle L:90%
along the side of the avenida diagonal in Barcelona.

446
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:23.069 A:middle L:90%
And uh, it is basically a office building with

447
00:27:23.069 --> 00:27:26.720 A:middle L:90%
that I think a small hotel, integrated schools at

448
00:27:26.730 --> 00:27:27.430 A:middle L:90%
the back small school. I think, I don't

449
00:27:27.430 --> 00:27:30.700 A:middle L:90%
quite know where it is, but the basic thing

450
00:27:30.700 --> 00:27:33.339 A:middle L:90%
is that the in the core of the block grade

451
00:27:33.349 --> 00:27:40.210 A:middle L:90%
there is a shopping mall galleria galleria and then there

452
00:27:40.210 --> 00:27:42.660 A:middle L:90%
is a shopping frontage on the avenida diagonal and that

453
00:27:42.660 --> 00:27:47.700 A:middle L:90%
shopping mall galleria of course sustains economically the shopping front

454
00:27:47.809 --> 00:27:49.990 A:middle L:90%
from the avenues of the canal and underneath there's quite

455
00:27:49.990 --> 00:27:56.359 A:middle L:90%
a Remember for probably eight clause of pocket. The

456
00:27:56.359 --> 00:28:00.609 A:middle L:90%
building made a huge impression on me also as a

457
00:28:00.619 --> 00:28:03.740 A:middle L:90%
program, but also as a solution, it permits

458
00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:07.980 A:middle L:90%
, you know that it touches the in chances of

459
00:28:07.990 --> 00:28:11.900 A:middle L:90%
the the the gridded city. And it's possible to

460
00:28:11.910 --> 00:28:15.240 A:middle L:90%
of course to gain access from that city to this

461
00:28:15.250 --> 00:28:18.769 A:middle L:90%
building, you know my bosses and etcetera etcetera,

462
00:28:18.140 --> 00:28:22.240 A:middle L:90%
but also the out of chaotic suburbs that surround Barcelona

463
00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:25.319 A:middle L:90%
. Then people can drive in and go into this

464
00:28:25.509 --> 00:28:29.369 A:middle L:90%
parking lot and then I think, you know,

465
00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:33.069 A:middle L:90%
well I greatly admired this building and then the the

466
00:28:33.069 --> 00:28:37.619 A:middle L:90%
architecture isn't kind of exquisite architecture, other zumthor or

467
00:28:38.490 --> 00:28:41.529 A:middle L:90%
or whatever, you know it it's not it's not

468
00:28:41.539 --> 00:28:47.170 A:middle L:90%
manet at his most refined but it is very intelligent

469
00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:48.809 A:middle L:90%
. It actually has a profile that steps you know

470
00:28:48.819 --> 00:28:52.059 A:middle L:90%
, so it also is a kind of landmark.

471
00:28:52.940 --> 00:28:55.160 A:middle L:90%
So from outside of the city you can see this

472
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:59.089 A:middle L:90%
form and the and the building is punched with square

473
00:28:59.089 --> 00:29:00.240 A:middle L:90%
windows. And I've always thought that there is no

474
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.369 A:middle L:90%
text to support this, that if you couldn't rent

475
00:29:03.369 --> 00:29:06.410 A:middle L:90%
it these offices anymore, you could quite easily converted

476
00:29:06.410 --> 00:29:11.319 A:middle L:90%
to apartments because it isn't the problem of the deep

477
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.240 A:middle L:90%
span off deep yes, deep office buildings with curtain

478
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.470 A:middle L:90%
wall. I mean that's very difficult to anyway to

479
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.660 A:middle L:90%
cut a long story short, I think that the

480
00:29:23.539 --> 00:29:26.869 A:middle L:90%
this invention of this type but it's you know one

481
00:29:26.869 --> 00:29:30.849 A:middle L:90%
offer you'd like to say unfortunately, but you know

482
00:29:30.849 --> 00:29:33.980 A:middle L:90%
it is a kind of exemplary type in that it

483
00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:40.900 A:middle L:90%
tries to transform the the economic reality into a into

484
00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:45.289 A:middle L:90%
a new kind of synthesis irrespective of the higher refinements

485
00:29:45.289 --> 00:29:48.380 A:middle L:90%
of the game. You know it the program is

486
00:29:48.380 --> 00:29:51.460 A:middle L:90%
a big issue with the invention of the program.

487
00:29:52.420 --> 00:29:53.269 A:middle L:90%
And I think when you think of all these provincial

488
00:29:53.269 --> 00:29:56.930 A:middle L:90%
american towns, you know where the these developer guys

489
00:29:56.930 --> 00:30:00.220 A:middle L:90%
of course bought land cheap because of the suburban development

490
00:30:00.230 --> 00:30:03.000 A:middle L:90%
and then they put the you know black top down

491
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.720 A:middle L:90%
and built the shopping center with the cheapest possible investment

492
00:30:07.730 --> 00:30:10.900 A:middle L:90%
commodity by definition and the people come there and park

493
00:30:10.900 --> 00:30:11.720 A:middle L:90%
their cars and go in and buy the stuff and

494
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.859 A:middle L:90%
go out also consuming. Of course that's it.

495
00:30:15.869 --> 00:30:18.660 A:middle L:90%
It's an entire exercise in that game. And the

496
00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:21.240 A:middle L:90%
provincial town which it has been built outside of is

497
00:30:21.250 --> 00:30:25.170 A:middle L:90%
destroyed, so is gone. And all of us

498
00:30:26.539 --> 00:30:27.990 A:middle L:90%
. And of course, if we had any sense

499
00:30:27.990 --> 00:30:30.799 A:middle L:90%
, we would have forced them politically, but we

500
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:36.630 A:middle L:90%
don't have any sense politically democratically that they should build

501
00:30:36.630 --> 00:30:41.950 A:middle L:90%
the just the dropping facility close to the old town

502
00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:45.029 A:middle L:90%
, then there would be a kind of a kind

503
00:30:45.029 --> 00:30:51.089 A:middle L:90%
of symbiosis. But I'm giving this thing because I

504
00:30:51.089 --> 00:30:52.460 A:middle L:90%
think that's a very good question. But then I

505
00:30:52.460 --> 00:30:56.819 A:middle L:90%
think this question of program and invention is what is

506
00:30:56.819 --> 00:31:00.250 A:middle L:90%
at stake. You know, and I think this

507
00:31:00.250 --> 00:31:02.990 A:middle L:90%
question of the land settlement, because we we are

508
00:31:02.990 --> 00:31:04.220 A:middle L:90%
completely out of our minds about that, you know

509
00:31:04.220 --> 00:31:06.720 A:middle L:90%
, we feel we can go on doing suburbs,

510
00:31:06.730 --> 00:31:11.309 A:middle L:90%
suburbs forever even now, but we clearly can't maintain

511
00:31:11.309 --> 00:31:14.210 A:middle L:90%
this infrastructure, it's gonna fall apart, then we

512
00:31:14.210 --> 00:31:15.769 A:middle L:90%
will abandon it. They're used to anybody. Can't

513
00:31:15.769 --> 00:31:19.109 A:middle L:90%
grow phone can't grow food anymore on that land.

514
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:23.089 A:middle L:90%
It's already gone. I mean, we don't know

515
00:31:23.490 --> 00:31:26.630 A:middle L:90%
that's a sad fact that, you know, we

516
00:31:26.630 --> 00:31:27.380 A:middle L:90%
like to think we have progressive, we have a

517
00:31:27.380 --> 00:31:30.420 A:middle L:90%
modern vision that we have modern people etcetera, etcetera

518
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:36.299 A:middle L:90%
, but we don't know where we're going. Do

519
00:31:36.309 --> 00:31:37.670 A:middle L:90%
you have any idea? You know, he produced

520
00:31:37.670 --> 00:31:44.049 A:middle L:90%
Children etcetera, etcetera and we love our Children etcetera

521
00:31:44.059 --> 00:31:47.849 A:middle L:90%
. But we don't want to do anything about the

522
00:31:47.950 --> 00:31:51.849 A:middle L:90%
obvious, you know, obvious future that's sitting there

523
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.710 A:middle L:90%
. You know, even the immediate we apparently it's

524
00:31:55.710 --> 00:31:59.849 A:middle L:90%
amazing situation. Not very one should discontinue discontinue this

525
00:31:59.849 --> 00:32:08.309 A:middle L:90%
discourse because it's too heavy would you say etcetera.

526
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:15.289 A:middle L:90%
What do you mean? In relation to what?

527
00:32:15.339 --> 00:32:19.529 A:middle L:90%
Thank God. Yes. Can you go a little

528
00:32:19.539 --> 00:32:23.789 A:middle L:90%
further? What do you? Well, you know

529
00:32:23.789 --> 00:32:25.200 A:middle L:90%
, I think it's quite what it seems like.

530
00:32:25.210 --> 00:32:28.859 A:middle L:90%
You're you're still writing the history of the moment that

531
00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:31.440 A:middle L:90%
you're speaking. And you know after this meeting you

532
00:32:31.450 --> 00:32:35.779 A:middle L:90%
write the history of what we've talked about. You

533
00:32:35.779 --> 00:32:37.640 A:middle L:90%
have some sense of what might happen in the next

534
00:32:37.650 --> 00:32:43.170 A:middle L:90%
three or four second. Mm hmm. No,

535
00:32:43.180 --> 00:32:45.710 A:middle L:90%
I mean who knows. I can't answer that.

536
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:54.420 A:middle L:90%
Would you ask you asking me a question? He

537
00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:55.990 A:middle L:90%
said we could have a longer. You know,

538
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.089 A:middle L:90%
we could have a correspondence about this, but I

539
00:33:00.099 --> 00:33:01.660 A:middle L:90%
mean, I don't know except we could do a

540
00:33:01.660 --> 00:33:07.710 A:middle L:90%
lot with this etcetera. I think yes, I

541
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.359 A:middle L:90%
have a question about your previous visits. Did you

542
00:33:10.369 --> 00:33:14.319 A:middle L:90%
meet Charles Worley when you're here perform. You studied

543
00:33:14.329 --> 00:33:19.380 A:middle L:90%
with a quick story in reference to your tubing hothouse

544
00:33:19.390 --> 00:33:21.730 A:middle L:90%
Charles. Worley. Who is a faculty member here

545
00:33:21.740 --> 00:33:24.009 A:middle L:90%
for a long time, studied with armor institute in

546
00:33:24.450 --> 00:33:29.710 A:middle L:90%
first when it was the armor institute? Yes.

547
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:36.059 A:middle L:90%
And he said that really? Yes to the students

548
00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:42.269 A:middle L:90%
said after seeing this shot of the marble table with

549
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:45.700 A:middle L:90%
the columns saved as the columns of the house holding

550
00:33:45.700 --> 00:33:49.910 A:middle L:90%
up the table said maestro question please, you told

551
00:33:49.910 --> 00:33:53.240 A:middle L:90%
us that things should fit the function. This chrome

552
00:33:53.250 --> 00:33:57.359 A:middle L:90%
columns hold up the house. Why did you use

553
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:59.690 A:middle L:90%
the cross section of the same column to hold up

554
00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:05.190 A:middle L:90%
the table? Said it was the best we could

555
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:08.579 A:middle L:90%
do that day. Yeah, that's a good answer

556
00:34:08.579 --> 00:34:10.909 A:middle L:90%
, isn't it? He was good at that.

557
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:14.579 A:middle L:90%
Yeah, he was good at that. What do

558
00:34:14.579 --> 00:34:21.940 A:middle L:90%
you think about? Well, where would you begin

559
00:34:21.949 --> 00:34:25.260 A:middle L:90%
today? You know, you're a friend of mine

560
00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:36.260 A:middle L:90%
. I thought yeah, right. I prefer when

561
00:34:36.260 --> 00:34:44.409 A:middle L:90%
you stay with etcetera. Yeah. Mhm. No

562
00:34:44.420 --> 00:34:45.030 A:middle L:90%
, it's not, it's not an easy issue.

563
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:47.530 A:middle L:90%
That's why I you know, when I was given

564
00:34:47.530 --> 00:34:51.389 A:middle L:90%
this when I said I would do this talk.

565
00:34:51.389 --> 00:34:52.320 A:middle L:90%
You know, then if I were to teach you

566
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.280 A:middle L:90%
architecture is a little bit, it's always been on

567
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:59.019 A:middle L:90%
my mind that you know that when the thing ends

568
00:34:59.019 --> 00:35:01.760 A:middle L:90%
, you're growing bored organizer, not a stylist.

569
00:35:04.139 --> 00:35:09.550 A:middle L:90%
And I don't know, it's very difficult I think

570
00:35:12.139 --> 00:35:15.349 A:middle L:90%
. How do you how do you approach this?

571
00:35:15.469 --> 00:35:16.369 A:middle L:90%
Well, one thing I think is for sure maybe

572
00:35:16.369 --> 00:35:19.199 A:middle L:90%
you do this here, but we don't do it

573
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:21.730 A:middle L:90%
in Colombia. But you know, Colombia is its

574
00:35:21.730 --> 00:35:25.369 A:middle L:90%
own Magical scene. But you know, one thing

575
00:35:25.369 --> 00:35:28.940 A:middle L:90%
which I talked about is that and that's still there

576
00:35:28.940 --> 00:35:30.690 A:middle L:90%
from the 60s. That in the first semester of

577
00:35:30.699 --> 00:35:34.760 A:middle L:90%
the second year, students designed housing, right.

578
00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:37.179 A:middle L:90%
But in the first, in the first year,

579
00:35:37.179 --> 00:35:39.750 A:middle L:90%
in the first two semesters, they do not design

580
00:35:39.750 --> 00:35:44.780 A:middle L:90%
a house. Yeah, it never designed and you're

581
00:35:44.780 --> 00:35:45.980 A:middle L:90%
like, it's too corny to design a house right

582
00:35:45.989 --> 00:35:50.969 A:middle L:90%
here and so on all, you know, And

583
00:35:50.980 --> 00:35:52.849 A:middle L:90%
this whole question of how big is anything within a

584
00:35:52.860 --> 00:35:55.750 A:middle L:90%
given culture, how big is a table, how

585
00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:00.300 A:middle L:90%
big is it share all that business of the dimensions

586
00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:01.659 A:middle L:90%
of things and to the body in relation to things

587
00:36:01.659 --> 00:36:04.869 A:middle L:90%
and all that. It's a sort of old way

588
00:36:04.869 --> 00:36:07.070 A:middle L:90%
of beginning, but I still think it's very valid

589
00:36:07.909 --> 00:36:10.719 A:middle L:90%
and the fact that maybe here it it still goes

590
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:14.179 A:middle L:90%
on, but the fact that it doesn't go on

591
00:36:14.190 --> 00:36:15.650 A:middle L:90%
in, let's say Columbia and I don't think it

592
00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:19.039 A:middle L:90%
really goes on in jail either. I don't really

593
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:22.679 A:middle L:90%
know what happened at Harvard, you know, that's

594
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:24.510 A:middle L:90%
all, we don't do that, right? And

595
00:36:25.630 --> 00:36:28.519 A:middle L:90%
I think it's that will start, you know,

596
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.139 A:middle L:90%
And I also think that typology altogether is part of

597
00:36:32.150 --> 00:36:35.909 A:middle L:90%
culture and ought to we ought to have a go

598
00:36:35.909 --> 00:36:37.510 A:middle L:90%
to kind of be closer to topology in a way

599
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:43.920 A:middle L:90%
, you know, and mhm. It's also part

600
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.449 A:middle L:90%
of the tradition, you know, with Adrian.

601
00:36:47.530 --> 00:36:50.300 A:middle L:90%
Yeah, I mean some, somewhere like that would

602
00:36:50.309 --> 00:36:53.360 A:middle L:90%
be one aspect of trying to ground to school,

603
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:58.130 A:middle L:90%
I think with the President's with modernity is part of

604
00:36:58.139 --> 00:37:00.980 A:middle L:90%
that program. Well, it's a bit difficult to

605
00:37:00.980 --> 00:37:07.400 A:middle L:90%
avoid modernity. Yeah, of course. Um It's

606
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:08.880 A:middle L:90%
such a difficult, it's very difficult. I find

607
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.400 A:middle L:90%
it difficult to answer the question because I think it

608
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.219 A:middle L:90%
is really a difficult moment and coming here, you

609
00:37:15.219 --> 00:37:17.730 A:middle L:90%
know, I see things happening here that you know

610
00:37:17.860 --> 00:37:21.960 A:middle L:90%
or in Alexandra for example, which to me to

611
00:37:21.969 --> 00:37:25.699 A:middle L:90%
be also still very valuable and yeah, rich in

612
00:37:25.699 --> 00:37:30.989 A:middle L:90%
a way and that doesn't happen in or any way

613
00:37:30.989 --> 00:37:34.510 A:middle L:90%
not in the same way in Yale or Columbia.

614
00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:36.710 A:middle L:90%
I mean they keep on talking about Yale and Columbia

615
00:37:36.710 --> 00:37:39.079 A:middle L:90%
because there are two schools I know best. But

616
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:42.659 A:middle L:90%
recently I went to cooper Union show, you know

617
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.619 A:middle L:90%
and the first year, the second half of the

618
00:37:45.630 --> 00:37:50.280 A:middle L:90%
first year and the and the second year were taught

619
00:37:50.289 --> 00:37:52.389 A:middle L:90%
by young faculty which was sort of abstract, constructive

620
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:57.469 A:middle L:90%
work somewhat after you know folks old business of nine

621
00:37:57.469 --> 00:37:59.960 A:middle L:90%
squares and so on, but very much influenced by

622
00:38:00.949 --> 00:38:07.130 A:middle L:90%
by neoclassicism and modular geometry. Mostly orthogonal, very

623
00:38:07.130 --> 00:38:10.809 A:middle L:90%
complex obviously enriched by digital manipulation. All of that

624
00:38:10.809 --> 00:38:14.730 A:middle L:90%
work was very impressive. Then I then I go

625
00:38:14.730 --> 00:38:16.420 A:middle L:90%
through the rest of the years and it gets worse

626
00:38:16.420 --> 00:38:21.230 A:middle L:90%
and worse and worse. And you have this feeling

627
00:38:21.230 --> 00:38:22.449 A:middle L:90%
that you know, even people that you think of

628
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.869 A:middle L:90%
you have to have experience and intelligence reform, you

629
00:38:27.869 --> 00:38:30.449 A:middle L:90%
know, I don't really know what they want anymore

630
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:31.909 A:middle L:90%
. You know they I mean the teachers don't know

631
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:37.860 A:middle L:90%
what they want and and they they I mean it's

632
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:42.630 A:middle L:90%
sort of kind of scandalous for me to say this

633
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:44.940 A:middle L:90%
but I I think that's the feeling I had that

634
00:38:45.699 --> 00:38:47.030 A:middle L:90%
like Diane lewis who is a very intelligent person that

635
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:51.420 A:middle L:90%
took there for a lot. I mean I looked

636
00:38:51.420 --> 00:38:52.840 A:middle L:90%
at the work, you know, which was so

637
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:55.000 A:middle L:90%
mannerist IQ in terms of its presentation apart from anything

638
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.099 A:middle L:90%
else. I thought what is this, what what

639
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:01.760 A:middle L:90%
happened exactly? Why does someone with that experience and

640
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:08.050 A:middle L:90%
intelligence end up with this mannerist IQ productive? What

641
00:39:08.059 --> 00:39:10.650 A:middle L:90%
what is it? It's like a kind of okay

642
00:39:12.019 --> 00:39:16.090 A:middle L:90%
, here's a related question. Before the war.

643
00:39:16.099 --> 00:39:20.139 A:middle L:90%
He was a bauhaus mechanism, right. I mean

644
00:39:22.460 --> 00:39:25.780 A:middle L:90%
uh that statement all of the houses a machine for

645
00:39:25.780 --> 00:39:30.880 A:middle L:90%
living in then he disappeared during the bar. Not

646
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:36.179 A:middle L:90%
exactly, but anyway he came out and suddenly he's

647
00:39:36.190 --> 00:39:43.440 A:middle L:90%
doing great grand caid ever dark chapel with the light

648
00:39:43.449 --> 00:39:46.400 A:middle L:90%
of immune and thresh ist commodity. But you know

649
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:49.710 A:middle L:90%
, you don't know the work well enough because if

650
00:39:49.710 --> 00:39:52.739 A:middle L:90%
you look at ah you see after you come in

651
00:39:52.739 --> 00:39:57.320 A:middle L:90%
the very year that he completes the white present and

652
00:39:57.320 --> 00:39:59.590 A:middle L:90%
all that. He does the Bill of errazuriz in

653
00:39:59.590 --> 00:40:01.579 A:middle L:90%
chile, you know, which is using rubble stone

654
00:40:01.579 --> 00:40:07.429 A:middle L:90%
construction, undressed timber. Malevich rules roman tiles.

655
00:40:07.550 --> 00:40:08.980 A:middle L:90%
I mean, he already has second thoughts about the

656
00:40:08.980 --> 00:40:14.760 A:middle L:90%
manifest destiny of modernity, you know, and that

657
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:20.989 A:middle L:90%
question with mediterranean and the mediterranean vernacular and vernacular altogether

658
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:22.820 A:middle L:90%
is present. And if you come to the maison

659
00:40:22.820 --> 00:40:24.440 A:middle L:90%
weekend, which I think is a little brilliant piece

660
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:29.829 A:middle L:90%
that was never uh has been no longer existed,

661
00:40:30.510 --> 00:40:35.360 A:middle L:90%
you know with this combination of shell boat a ruse

662
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:38.639 A:middle L:90%
and wow, advanced breakfast, concrete. Shell ball

663
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:40.079 A:middle L:90%
construction. But I'm sure, you know, it

664
00:40:40.090 --> 00:40:46.989 A:middle L:90%
mixed with, you know, delicate concrete blade supports

665
00:40:46.989 --> 00:40:51.380 A:middle L:90%
, but also then with rubble stone wall supports and

666
00:40:51.380 --> 00:40:54.760 A:middle L:90%
then with plate glass framed in stainless steel, but

667
00:40:54.769 --> 00:40:59.800 A:middle L:90%
rubble stone walling painted white on the interior with,

668
00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:01.199 A:middle L:90%
you know, industrial produced plywood on the, on

669
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:04.909 A:middle L:90%
the sockets of the vaults and, and grass over

670
00:41:04.909 --> 00:41:07.289 A:middle L:90%
the top. I mean, here there is a

671
00:41:07.300 --> 00:41:12.019 A:middle L:90%
subtle, yeah, brilliant synthesis of, of the

672
00:41:13.110 --> 00:41:19.340 A:middle L:90%
, you know, modern technology with archaic ways of

673
00:41:19.349 --> 00:41:22.030 A:middle L:90%
being and building, you know, brought together in

674
00:41:22.030 --> 00:41:24.980 A:middle L:90%
an extraordinary year. The only synthesis and this is

675
00:41:24.980 --> 00:41:30.789 A:middle L:90%
the, this is 1935. So when, you

676
00:41:30.789 --> 00:41:31.070 A:middle L:90%
know, it's not, it's not. So,

677
00:41:31.070 --> 00:41:32.619 A:middle L:90%
as you say, you know, he doesn't come

678
00:41:32.619 --> 00:41:35.570 A:middle L:90%
out of the war. You know, it is

679
00:41:35.570 --> 00:41:38.090 A:middle L:90%
the continuity of this. He's already involved with,

680
00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:40.530 A:middle L:90%
you know, a reinterpretation of the archaic because the

681
00:41:42.309 --> 00:41:47.300 A:middle L:90%
The Tent 1937 votes is what could be more archaic

682
00:41:47.300 --> 00:41:53.239 A:middle L:90%
than a tent. But it's reinterpreted, I think

683
00:41:54.210 --> 00:41:58.460 A:middle L:90%
, uh, this new questions that launched the vitamin

684
00:41:58.460 --> 00:42:00.079 A:middle L:90%
that I'd like to really pull up that completes his

685
00:42:00.090 --> 00:42:02.269 A:middle L:90%
work when it comes to new york wise, loving

686
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:06.000 A:middle L:90%
people worldwide. And then without south America and you

687
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.730 A:middle L:90%
suddenly see the incorporation of the horizon in this work

688
00:42:09.699 --> 00:42:13.230 A:middle L:90%
. How is that Southern partner? Did you start

689
00:42:13.230 --> 00:42:17.670 A:middle L:90%
singing legislations a lot of inhabitants. That's only the

690
00:42:21.900 --> 00:42:25.610 A:middle L:90%
other things is there is this notion of improvising infrastructure

691
00:42:25.909 --> 00:42:30.719 A:middle L:90%
. Right? How legitimate. I think it's so

692
00:42:31.449 --> 00:42:37.519 A:middle L:90%
one of the um, economic graffiti on books.

693
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:45.420 A:middle L:90%
Mm hmm. Yeah. You know, well I've

694
00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:49.119 A:middle L:90%
been there is that public for Buenos Aires which shows

695
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:52.940 A:middle L:90%
the towers, right? Yeah, I don't know

696
00:42:52.940 --> 00:43:00.329 A:middle L:90%
what to say. Ah yeah, I mean,

697
00:43:00.500 --> 00:43:06.599 A:middle L:90%
I mean the three million inhabitants anyway is 1922 and

698
00:43:06.869 --> 00:43:08.780 A:middle L:90%
the horizon is already there. You know, the

699
00:43:08.780 --> 00:43:12.179 A:middle L:90%
interesting thing is and of course we're not able to

700
00:43:12.190 --> 00:43:16.019 A:middle L:90%
do that either. Which is that um, 1937

701
00:43:16.019 --> 00:43:22.030 A:middle L:90%
There is this project for paris which is in the

702
00:43:22.030 --> 00:43:24.579 A:middle L:90%
center of paris and you know he has these Cartesian

703
00:43:24.579 --> 00:43:28.320 A:middle L:90%
skyscrapers I think four or six, I can't remember

704
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:31.150 A:middle L:90%
which he builds, you know next to Notre dame

705
00:43:31.150 --> 00:43:32.820 A:middle L:90%
and so on and so on. You know it's

706
00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:36.829 A:middle L:90%
a beautiful sketch. And one of the things that

707
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:39.019 A:middle L:90%
is obviously implicit is that you, if you built

708
00:43:39.500 --> 00:43:44.760 A:middle L:90%
to a new standard height you will create a new

709
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:49.550 A:middle L:90%
data, you know and yeah, good, nice

710
00:43:49.550 --> 00:43:53.000 A:middle L:90%
to meet you. Yeah. So you've established anything

711
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:59.730 A:middle L:90%
and what No one did it except in stock room

712
00:43:59.730 --> 00:44:02.800 A:middle L:90%
I think. Okay, thank you. In uh

713
00:44:02.809 --> 00:44:06.889 A:middle L:90%
, in new york city, I think they are

714
00:44:06.900 --> 00:44:09.650 A:middle L:90%
close to completing a complete reconstruction of the U.

715
00:44:09.650 --> 00:44:14.349 A:middle L:90%
N. Headquarters. Um, and it seems to

716
00:44:14.349 --> 00:44:17.739 A:middle L:90%
me it's a little sad that that instead of that

717
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:21.190 A:middle L:90%
they couldn't make it any better. They just have

718
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:23.610 A:middle L:90%
remade it exactly the way it was except for some

719
00:44:23.610 --> 00:44:29.679 A:middle L:90%
technical stuff. You have an opinion about it's not

720
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:30.809 A:middle L:90%
so easy to make a thing like that better,

721
00:44:31.190 --> 00:44:37.190 A:middle L:90%
you know? Uh Yeah, so I went over

722
00:44:37.190 --> 00:44:39.599 A:middle L:90%
it very recently less than a week ago. Um

723
00:44:44.139 --> 00:44:45.230 A:middle L:90%
yeah, you know, I don't know what to

724
00:44:45.230 --> 00:44:49.329 A:middle L:90%
say, you said it. No, I don't

725
00:44:49.329 --> 00:44:50.920 A:middle L:90%
know what to say about it because you know it

726
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:53.670 A:middle L:90%
is what it is and it's unfortunate. I can't

727
00:44:53.670 --> 00:44:55.329 A:middle L:90%
give you one thing which you know, you could

728
00:44:55.329 --> 00:45:00.260 A:middle L:90%
say making it better because I noticed something that what

729
00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:07.349 A:middle L:90%
is it blocking his neck. Um Yeah, Harrison

730
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:12.349 A:middle L:90%
, Right. Yeah. Harrison really, in the

731
00:45:12.349 --> 00:45:15.510 A:middle L:90%
end details the whole thing, you know that in

732
00:45:15.510 --> 00:45:20.670 A:middle L:90%
the fluid public space there are these concrete columns but

733
00:45:20.670 --> 00:45:23.849 A:middle L:90%
they are appears they're rectangular. And when you walked

734
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:27.230 A:middle L:90%
it just struck me as we walked there, you

735
00:45:27.230 --> 00:45:30.099 A:middle L:90%
think, what does this guy understand about anything?

736
00:45:30.590 --> 00:45:31.860 A:middle L:90%
Because you know, why aren't they cylindrical columns?

737
00:45:32.489 --> 00:45:37.050 A:middle L:90%
Because it's clear that the cylindrical columns in terms of

738
00:45:37.050 --> 00:45:38.789 A:middle L:90%
their appearance, but also in terms of what what

739
00:45:38.789 --> 00:45:45.219 A:middle L:90%
they imply, you know, facilitate both visually and

740
00:45:45.219 --> 00:45:49.650 A:middle L:90%
otherwise fluidity of space and then and the rectangle that

741
00:45:49.650 --> 00:45:52.130 A:middle L:90%
comes to the complete opposite. They killed the space

742
00:45:52.889 --> 00:45:54.440 A:middle L:90%
. There's it is still there of course, but

743
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:58.679 A:middle L:90%
it doesn't have the same feeling at all. And

744
00:45:58.690 --> 00:46:00.159 A:middle L:90%
you know, just in that one detail of these

745
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:06.599 A:middle L:90%
columns is the total, you know. MS comprehension

746
00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:09.639 A:middle L:90%
of Harrison in relation to or for that matter the

747
00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:14.269 A:middle L:90%
school of it's very hard to fix that kind of

748
00:46:14.269 --> 00:46:17.909 A:middle L:90%
thing, you know, because it's deep, you

749
00:46:17.909 --> 00:46:24.099 A:middle L:90%
know, and uh could be worse. I think

750
00:46:24.980 --> 00:46:30.780 A:middle L:90%
they built it anyway and sort of function which was

751
00:46:30.789 --> 00:46:31.909 A:middle L:90%
with the League of Nations was not able to.

752
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:42.159 A:middle L:90%
I really do. Thank you. Yes. Oh

753
00:46:42.170 --> 00:46:46.519 A:middle L:90%
, adam you were speaking earlier that having Children acceptable

754
00:46:46.530 --> 00:46:50.409 A:middle L:90%
and we're not sure what we're doing and something is

755
00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:58.179 A:middle L:90%
obvious, but exactly that like we were really sure

756
00:46:58.179 --> 00:47:00.349 A:middle L:90%
what we were doing and seeing that we know what

757
00:47:00.349 --> 00:47:04.230 A:middle L:90%
is obvious than other cultures and generations after deciding it

758
00:47:04.230 --> 00:47:06.989 A:middle L:90%
wasn't obvious at all, it was actually all wrong

759
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:09.239 A:middle L:90%
. Um, so what are the things that you

760
00:47:09.250 --> 00:47:15.989 A:middle L:90%
involve obvious um, in architectural elsewhere that you know

761
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.099 A:middle L:90%
, we could have in your opinion consensus on.

762
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:23.389 A:middle L:90%
Yeah, I mean, well, I just think

763
00:47:23.389 --> 00:47:28.179 A:middle L:90%
that the scale of the, of the challenges so

764
00:47:28.179 --> 00:47:37.530 A:middle L:90%
much bigger and in different practices other than that there's

765
00:47:37.530 --> 00:47:38.559 A:middle L:90%
a kind of crisis in a way. I mean

766
00:47:38.570 --> 00:47:40.460 A:middle L:90%
, I think agriculture for example, I think there

767
00:47:40.460 --> 00:47:43.909 A:middle L:90%
are two fields in some funny way, I think

768
00:47:43.909 --> 00:47:45.309 A:middle L:90%
are linked to our one is medicine and one is

769
00:47:45.309 --> 00:47:49.690 A:middle L:90%
agriculture, I think in both these areas, there

770
00:47:49.690 --> 00:47:54.500 A:middle L:90%
are lots of, you know, ah traps.

771
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:01.170 A:middle L:90%
You know, economic traps, maybe more more economic

772
00:48:01.170 --> 00:48:04.750 A:middle L:90%
traps than anything. But when you think of the

773
00:48:04.750 --> 00:48:07.679 A:middle L:90%
relationship of the influence business to pharmaceutical companies to the

774
00:48:07.690 --> 00:48:10.389 A:middle L:90%
delivery of medicine in relation to the population, you

775
00:48:10.389 --> 00:48:14.420 A:middle L:90%
look at that very closely, you find it it's

776
00:48:14.420 --> 00:48:22.079 A:middle L:90%
full of Catch 22 All over the place and and

777
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:24.389 A:middle L:90%
it's difficult to step outside of it. I mean

778
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:29.719 A:middle L:90%
for the society to step outside. Yeah. And

779
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:31.139 A:middle L:90%
and if you think of agribusiness for example and all

780
00:48:31.139 --> 00:48:34.500 A:middle L:90%
the things that go on with agribusiness, you know

781
00:48:34.500 --> 00:48:37.750 A:middle L:90%
, it's the same story really and the forces that

782
00:48:37.750 --> 00:48:42.880 A:middle L:90%
work are enormous, you know, And that that

783
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:47.690 A:middle L:90%
wasn't the case I think in 1935, 1945.

784
00:48:50.369 --> 00:48:54.429 A:middle L:90%
So that the scale has changed things. The scale

785
00:48:54.429 --> 00:49:02.289 A:middle L:90%
of the of the of the non correspondence between um

786
00:49:04.369 --> 00:49:10.030 A:middle L:90%
conditions of existence and and yes and certain practices.

787
00:49:14.769 --> 00:49:16.559 A:middle L:90%
It's more supposed to in your life about repetition and

788
00:49:16.570 --> 00:49:22.590 A:middle L:90%
difference. You're right. It's this is well there

789
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:27.789 A:middle L:90%
is this idea of the origin of that. Yeah

790
00:49:28.170 --> 00:49:30.900 A:middle L:90%
. What is his name? Famous semi petition okay

791
00:49:31.349 --> 00:49:36.920 A:middle L:90%
, blocking his name but it's no, no it's

792
00:49:37.670 --> 00:49:45.119 A:middle L:90%
oh God Writing Degree zero and elements of yes Bart

793
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:51.019 A:middle L:90%
uses that term repetition different and I think it's it's

794
00:49:51.019 --> 00:49:52.150 A:middle L:90%
an interesting term, you know, Visa be tradition

795
00:49:52.150 --> 00:49:58.059 A:middle L:90%
innovation and so on repetition. Different. I don't

796
00:49:58.059 --> 00:50:00.619 A:middle L:90%
have too much to add to it. Yeah,

797
00:50:00.630 --> 00:50:02.190 A:middle L:90%
because we always struggle how were influenced by the work

798
00:50:02.190 --> 00:50:06.179 A:middle L:90%
of architecture. It seems to be a very to

799
00:50:06.179 --> 00:50:12.000 A:middle L:90%
speak about yes. Yes. Right. Well I

800
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:16.230 A:middle L:90%
mean yes, I mean there the circumstances anyway,

801
00:50:17.260 --> 00:50:22.239 A:middle L:90%
you know bring you to well maybe then you know

802
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:23.010 A:middle L:90%
in the end it has to only could be a

803
00:50:23.010 --> 00:50:29.949 A:middle L:90%
different repetition rather than a copy. Yeah, but

804
00:50:29.949 --> 00:50:35.389 A:middle L:90%
still the reference can be made and made to be

805
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:43.750 A:middle L:90%
alive. Right? I think you can well,

806
00:50:43.750 --> 00:50:46.960 A:middle L:90%
you know, in traditional cultures where in particularly vernacular

807
00:50:47.329 --> 00:50:52.070 A:middle L:90%
then That's the famous now out of loosening architecture 1910

808
00:50:52.460 --> 00:50:57.219 A:middle L:90%
where he asked the peasant, right? Uh so

809
00:50:57.219 --> 00:51:00.280 A:middle L:90%
it's it's a beauty isn't a beautiful roof or an

810
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:01.409 A:middle L:90%
ugly roof, and he says, I don't know

811
00:51:01.420 --> 00:51:04.050 A:middle L:90%
, it's the roof. Like my father built the

812
00:51:04.050 --> 00:51:05.829 A:middle L:90%
roof, my grandfather built the roof. It's a

813
00:51:05.829 --> 00:51:07.829 A:middle L:90%
roof. You know, that's the vernacular. Of

814
00:51:07.829 --> 00:51:09.769 A:middle L:90%
course, the issue doesn't simply arise. It's pre

815
00:51:09.769 --> 00:51:14.349 A:middle L:90%
aesthetics, you know, But we are we are

816
00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:17.280 A:middle L:90%
we don't have that public. Right? So,

817
00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:22.650 A:middle L:90%
yeah, so we are in a different situation,

818
00:51:22.659 --> 00:51:28.050 A:middle L:90%
I think. Okay. Mhm. Just to come

819
00:51:28.050 --> 00:51:30.389 A:middle L:90%
to a smaller scale, I was struck last night

820
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:32.880 A:middle L:90%
, you were showing the house and bought a house

821
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:37.860 A:middle L:90%
in the sketch. You made the statement that we

822
00:51:37.869 --> 00:51:42.900 A:middle L:90%
couldn't make that sketch today. Right, What are

823
00:51:42.900 --> 00:51:45.070 A:middle L:90%
you getting at there? Yeah, I know it's

824
00:51:45.070 --> 00:51:47.980 A:middle L:90%
a feeling I have about it. Maybe more than

825
00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:52.190 A:middle L:90%
um Actually it would be interesting to look at Potter's

826
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:55.809 A:middle L:90%
work at the last 20 years or post this house

827
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:01.949 A:middle L:90%
come and find sketches that that have the same feeling

828
00:52:01.949 --> 00:52:06.320 A:middle L:90%
, not only graphically, but in sort of intention

829
00:52:06.329 --> 00:52:07.489 A:middle L:90%
, because there's a concept there as well as the

830
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:14.960 A:middle L:90%
delicacy of the graphic and I suppose what I'm getting

831
00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:17.139 A:middle L:90%
at is that since that was done, I think

832
00:52:17.150 --> 00:52:20.420 A:middle L:90%
, you know, Ticino has, you know,

833
00:52:20.429 --> 00:52:22.599 A:middle L:90%
more and more houses have been built. Probably more

834
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:27.880 A:middle L:90%
and more farms have been abandoned etcetera, etcetera.

835
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:30.360 A:middle L:90%
And maybe that because I see that image as kind

836
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:35.250 A:middle L:90%
of the a sort of late modern resistant gesture.

837
00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:38.340 A:middle L:90%
You know that it's that the building is built to

838
00:52:38.349 --> 00:52:45.639 A:middle L:90%
establish a boundary at some distance from a pre industrial

839
00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:50.250 A:middle L:90%
village with the agricultural land behind it, you know

840
00:52:50.250 --> 00:52:52.079 A:middle L:90%
, And it kind of rhythmically the marks the different

841
00:52:52.090 --> 00:52:54.650 A:middle L:90%
, you know, somehow. Yes. It's a

842
00:52:54.650 --> 00:52:59.599 A:middle L:90%
marker and the kind of implies or seems to be

843
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:06.650 A:middle L:90%
a sort of metaphor of defense or resistance. And

844
00:53:06.659 --> 00:53:09.050 A:middle L:90%
but I think now it's difficult to perhaps think like

845
00:53:09.050 --> 00:53:15.159 A:middle L:90%
that because things have have gone yes. You know

846
00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:19.130 A:middle L:90%
, maybe you can't find that village anymore or I

847
00:53:19.130 --> 00:53:21.289 A:middle L:90%
don't know. I mean it's an intuition really rather

848
00:53:21.289 --> 00:53:24.920 A:middle L:90%
than I can't prove it, you know? But

849
00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:28.380 A:middle L:90%
even if there's an offense wouldn't it still be worthy

850
00:53:29.150 --> 00:53:30.389 A:middle L:90%
to have ideas like that? Even today. You

851
00:53:30.389 --> 00:53:34.519 A:middle L:90%
know, I think that I don't wish to suggest

852
00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:37.139 A:middle L:90%
that it's not an aspiration one should have. You

853
00:53:37.139 --> 00:53:39.599 A:middle L:90%
know, I just wanted to say that when you

854
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:43.289 A:middle L:90%
look at it, you think of it's something very

855
00:53:43.469 --> 00:53:46.980 A:middle L:90%
beautiful about it and very clear, you know,

856
00:53:46.989 --> 00:53:52.369 A:middle L:90%
very someone lucid and I just wonder, you know

857
00:53:52.949 --> 00:53:54.000 A:middle L:90%
, well even, you know, is better able

858
00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:58.679 A:middle L:90%
to think like that now. You know the question

859
00:53:59.849 --> 00:54:12.159 A:middle L:90%
. Mhm. Um um on you what you have

860
00:54:12.170 --> 00:54:21.780 A:middle L:90%
to I guess one day awesome. Yeah. one

861
00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:30.210 A:middle L:90%
more coming from this. Yeah. And more than

862
00:54:30.219 --> 00:54:35.179 A:middle L:90%
legal. Mm hmm. I don't know. I'm

863
00:54:35.179 --> 00:54:37.619 A:middle L:90%
not thought about it too much money for example.

864
00:54:39.260 --> 00:54:42.880 A:middle L:90%
I mean, I have reservations about the later work

865
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:44.360 A:middle L:90%
of water. You know, I think that,

866
00:54:45.139 --> 00:54:47.179 A:middle L:90%
I mean, he's a brilliant person. He's very

867
00:54:47.179 --> 00:54:52.030 A:middle L:90%
skilled. Okay. Or does he know what he's

868
00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:54.730 A:middle L:90%
doing? You know? But um, perhaps too

869
00:54:54.730 --> 00:55:01.329 A:middle L:90%
well. And so I don't find the work,

870
00:55:01.340 --> 00:55:04.309 A:middle L:90%
the later work very interesting. You know, I

871
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:06.769 A:middle L:90%
think this Mario, I don't quite know what to

872
00:55:06.769 --> 00:55:10.750 A:middle L:90%
think about it. Um, I mean, if

873
00:55:10.750 --> 00:55:14.250 A:middle L:90%
we're talking about, you know, some illusion to

874
00:55:14.260 --> 00:55:16.679 A:middle L:90%
another moment in history, maybe medieval. I prefer

875
00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:21.179 A:middle L:90%
the church of sumter for example to, you know

876
00:55:21.179 --> 00:55:27.219 A:middle L:90%
, the wooden structure. But I don't know how

877
00:55:27.230 --> 00:55:28.639 A:middle L:90%
to, I don't know more than that. I

878
00:55:28.650 --> 00:55:29.599 A:middle L:90%
don't know what to say. I mean, I

879
00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:34.039 A:middle L:90%
think that, you know that it's a very delicate

880
00:55:34.050 --> 00:55:38.349 A:middle L:90%
thing because if you, um, step too far

881
00:55:39.130 --> 00:55:44.050 A:middle L:90%
, I think towards uh, an avocation, but

882
00:55:44.050 --> 00:55:51.420 A:middle L:90%
you, the detailed expression comes to um, sensational

883
00:55:51.429 --> 00:55:52.969 A:middle L:90%
on the edge of kitsch, you lose it,

884
00:55:53.630 --> 00:55:57.659 A:middle L:90%
you lose the point. You know, you know

885
00:55:57.670 --> 00:56:00.699 A:middle L:90%
, the whole thing becomes too sentimental. That's the

886
00:56:00.699 --> 00:56:04.119 A:middle L:90%
risk. I think with, you know, like

887
00:56:04.130 --> 00:56:07.730 A:middle L:90%
when he was using these diet concrete blocks somehow.

888
00:56:07.730 --> 00:56:09.550 A:middle L:90%
I think it was more primitive and maybe this,

889
00:56:10.130 --> 00:56:15.829 A:middle L:90%
the fact that could could sustain no the bandit business

890
00:56:15.730 --> 00:56:21.880 A:middle L:90%
when the bandit brickwork gets repeated and as in tonight

891
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:23.789 A:middle L:90%
, um, you know, so you end up

892
00:56:23.789 --> 00:56:29.010 A:middle L:90%
with a decorative thing and then you don't quite know

893
00:56:29.010 --> 00:56:30.280 A:middle L:90%
what you've got, really, I think I feel

894
00:56:30.280 --> 00:56:37.679 A:middle L:90%
that everybody's working away. He's very gifted, very

895
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:40.550 A:middle L:90%
talented, but probably it may be too successful.

896
00:56:43.030 --> 00:56:47.329 A:middle L:90%
Came out in the habit. Yeah. What do

897
00:56:47.329 --> 00:56:53.010 A:middle L:90%
you think about Mangus Church in Tokyo and Belushi's Church

898
00:56:53.019 --> 00:56:59.340 A:middle L:90%
in san Francisco? Yeah, well, you know

899
00:56:59.349 --> 00:57:00.889 A:middle L:90%
, it's gone forever, but I mean, well

900
00:57:00.900 --> 00:57:01.969 A:middle L:90%
, first of all, I have to confess,

901
00:57:01.969 --> 00:57:04.530 A:middle L:90%
I don't know that, you know, you know

902
00:57:04.539 --> 00:57:07.889 A:middle L:90%
, that's the problem right here I am etcetera,

903
00:57:07.090 --> 00:57:10.130 A:middle L:90%
I don't know, Baluchi church in san Francisco,

904
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:14.159 A:middle L:90%
so I can't uh comments, you know, I'm

905
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:17.469 A:middle L:90%
not too happy with church in Tokyo either. I

906
00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:20.460 A:middle L:90%
don't think that's tanking at the best. Anyway,

907
00:57:22.219 --> 00:57:24.210 A:middle L:90%
I think when it comes to certain kinds of educational

908
00:57:24.210 --> 00:57:29.820 A:middle L:90%
spirituality, let's say, think, ando it more

909
00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:36.280 A:middle L:90%
refined work than hanging in that area. Um Henke

910
00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:42.960 A:middle L:90%
was an unbelievably brilliant architect that's still probably undervalued today

911
00:57:43.929 --> 00:57:45.460 A:middle L:90%
, but that church is not not the great work

912
00:57:49.429 --> 00:57:55.659 A:middle L:90%
. Yeah, yep, students, suburban placeless situation

913
00:57:57.030 --> 00:58:00.960 A:middle L:90%
, Yeah, parties and it seems that all sort

914
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:05.949 A:middle L:90%
of stances in certain you wanna play, but also

915
00:58:06.099 --> 00:58:09.679 A:middle L:90%
to recruitment functionally, that every situation is just up

916
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:15.710 A:middle L:90%
for grabs and every position and we sort of sort

917
00:58:15.710 --> 00:58:19.639 A:middle L:90%
of take our fathers in a sense, it seems

918
00:58:19.650 --> 00:58:22.510 A:middle L:90%
that it's very hard to unique and cold, my

919
00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:28.050 A:middle L:90%
favorite can continue speaking out of this situation. Good

920
00:58:28.050 --> 00:58:31.480 A:middle L:90%
night. Yeah, but, you know, since

921
00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:34.110 A:middle L:90%
you were brought up in the suburbs, I mean

922
00:58:34.110 --> 00:58:37.480 A:middle L:90%
, I think, and actually at lunch talked about

923
00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:39.840 A:middle L:90%
it a little bit and I also showed Harlan,

924
00:58:40.099 --> 00:58:44.280 A:middle L:90%
you know, last night. And um, I

925
00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:45.480 A:middle L:90%
think this business of people living together, you know

926
00:58:45.489 --> 00:58:50.440 A:middle L:90%
, closer together is a, is a real issue

927
00:58:50.619 --> 00:58:54.380 A:middle L:90%
. You know, also economically also from Portugal's infrastructure

928
00:58:55.019 --> 00:59:01.250 A:middle L:90%
, um, energy also culturally, you know,

929
00:59:01.260 --> 00:59:04.619 A:middle L:90%
I think that that that in a way, you

930
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:07.760 A:middle L:90%
know, maybe your generation does have a chance to

931
00:59:07.769 --> 00:59:12.960 A:middle L:90%
with the right small developers and of course you have

932
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:15.719 A:middle L:90%
to persuade local authorities to buy it as well because

933
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:17.539 A:middle L:90%
they that would be a fool to think that the

934
00:59:17.550 --> 00:59:22.599 A:middle L:90%
building regulations are neutral. They're they're designed to produce

935
00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:25.400 A:middle L:90%
the suburbs. That's what the building relations regulations designed

936
00:59:27.219 --> 00:59:29.039 A:middle L:90%
, you know, so you have that not to

937
00:59:29.050 --> 00:59:32.159 A:middle L:90%
crack, you know, because that's the racket basically

938
00:59:32.460 --> 00:59:35.239 A:middle L:90%
shooting the oil companies, of course, etcetera,

939
00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:39.289 A:middle L:90%
right? I can't believe it anything else. And

940
00:59:39.300 --> 00:59:42.769 A:middle L:90%
, and so I think, you know, people

941
00:59:42.769 --> 00:59:45.630 A:middle L:90%
living closer together would be something to work for,

942
00:59:45.630 --> 00:59:47.730 A:middle L:90%
you know, um, and also to use less

943
00:59:47.730 --> 00:59:51.960 A:middle L:90%
land, well, all of them. And and

944
00:59:51.960 --> 00:59:52.739 A:middle L:90%
the difficulty is of course, how to, how

945
00:59:52.739 --> 00:59:57.690 A:middle L:90%
to invent that that still gives people a feeling of

946
00:59:57.699 --> 01:00:00.909 A:middle L:90%
possession and Oh yeah, bubble, I mean that

947
01:00:00.909 --> 01:00:04.320 A:middle L:90%
I think is an issue, this problem of how

948
01:00:04.329 --> 01:00:09.380 A:middle L:90%
to make collective housing, which can still give to

949
01:00:09.380 --> 01:00:14.639 A:middle L:90%
an ordinary person a sense of home, no,

950
01:00:14.650 --> 01:00:19.050 A:middle L:90%
of rootedness of protection, you know, of a

951
01:00:19.059 --> 01:00:22.099 A:middle L:90%
value. You know, that's that is a real

952
01:00:22.099 --> 01:00:24.320 A:middle L:90%
challenge for how to do that, you know?

953
01:00:25.409 --> 01:00:30.590 A:middle L:90%
And but that's what I think your generation could work

954
01:00:30.590 --> 01:00:31.730 A:middle L:90%
with. And then, you know, it doesn't

955
01:00:31.730 --> 01:00:35.409 A:middle L:90%
matter all the other stuff modern, postmodern, all

956
01:00:35.409 --> 01:00:38.769 A:middle L:90%
that. It's all I mean, you have to

957
01:00:38.769 --> 01:00:42.960 A:middle L:90%
start from the program. Thank you again. Mm

958
01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:52.860 A:middle L:90%
hmm. I really can't do. Okay. Yeah

959
01:01:00.510 --> 01:01:08.250 A:middle L:90%
, processing. And I feel like shadow points and

960
01:01:08.260 --> 01:01:12.940 A:middle L:90%
that was part of I want to market architecture,

961
01:01:14.349 --> 01:01:20.920 A:middle L:90%
the development cycle. And she Yeah. Well,

962
01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:23.030 A:middle L:90%
first of all that jury must be something, you

963
01:01:23.030 --> 01:01:29.429 A:middle L:90%
know, because, you know, the shard is

964
01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:31.659 A:middle L:90%
, what can I possibly say about the shot.

965
01:01:31.670 --> 01:01:36.989 A:middle L:90%
You know, it's just, you know, it

966
01:01:36.989 --> 01:01:38.269 A:middle L:90%
will not only give it a prize because you know

967
01:01:38.909 --> 01:01:44.269 A:middle L:90%
, it's what the tallest building in europe or isn't

968
01:01:44.269 --> 01:01:46.030 A:middle L:90%
that great London is now the all that I mean

969
01:01:46.710 --> 01:01:50.739 A:middle L:90%
, it's really primitive to give that building the prize

970
01:01:51.809 --> 01:01:52.699 A:middle L:90%
. I don't think it does piano in his service

971
01:01:52.710 --> 01:01:55.469 A:middle L:90%
to the building. But anyway. And then the

972
01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:59.639 A:middle L:90%
credit thing. Well, I'm not okay. But

973
01:01:59.639 --> 01:02:00.579 A:middle L:90%
I mean, what about, you know, these

974
01:02:00.579 --> 01:02:04.590 A:middle L:90%
two buildings? Pretty weird I think. And then

975
01:02:04.590 --> 01:02:07.550 A:middle L:90%
you have to come back to the jury and to

976
01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:15.150 A:middle L:90%
media and to conformity and you know, I mean

977
01:02:15.150 --> 01:02:16.650 A:middle L:90%
, the article review which is edited by Catherine Slesin

978
01:02:16.650 --> 01:02:20.239 A:middle L:90%
, which isn't bad, but there's no position,

979
01:02:20.900 --> 01:02:22.849 A:middle L:90%
he never takes a position, you know? Not

980
01:02:22.849 --> 01:02:30.159 A:middle L:90%
really. Um, yeah, so and two,

981
01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:31.550 A:middle L:90%
it's something you'd be upset me actually by telling me

982
01:02:31.550 --> 01:02:40.210 A:middle L:90%
that fact. Alright. God, Okay. Um

983
01:02:40.219 --> 01:02:45.420 A:middle L:90%
, I was struck last night when you mentioned that

984
01:02:45.429 --> 01:02:49.670 A:middle L:90%
you thought that the avant garde had essentially folded at

985
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:52.769 A:middle L:90%
the beginning of the spanish civil war, because it

986
01:02:52.769 --> 01:02:57.539 A:middle L:90%
got me thinking, um you know, most of

987
01:02:57.550 --> 01:03:00.719 A:middle L:90%
for many of the well known early modernists, projects

988
01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:04.869 A:middle L:90%
that we have were projects that were connected with commerce

989
01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:07.599 A:middle L:90%
, They were stores, cafes, factories, et

990
01:03:07.610 --> 01:03:13.780 A:middle L:90%
cetera. Um I guess can we regard those projects

991
01:03:13.789 --> 01:03:15.469 A:middle L:90%
as I've off guard for one, So kind of

992
01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:17.340 A:middle L:90%
, how are you categorizing it? And then secondly

993
01:03:17.349 --> 01:03:23.260 A:middle L:90%
, um can the avant garde exist within the capitalist

994
01:03:23.269 --> 01:03:29.190 A:middle L:90%
mechanisms? Yes. Well, you know, is

995
01:03:29.190 --> 01:03:30.059 A:middle L:90%
there is the term I haven't got, you know

996
01:03:31.519 --> 01:03:35.710 A:middle L:90%
, is it still helpful? I don't know.

997
01:03:35.719 --> 01:03:38.500 A:middle L:90%
I'm not sure it is anymore. And but I'm

998
01:03:38.500 --> 01:03:42.170 A:middle L:90%
glad you raised that issue about the powerful story,

999
01:03:42.179 --> 01:03:49.920 A:middle L:90%
because in another moment of marketing, department stores were

1000
01:03:49.929 --> 01:03:57.110 A:middle L:90%
definitely sort of micro cosmic semi public institutional buildings,

1001
01:03:57.110 --> 01:04:00.329 A:middle L:90%
right? With one of the most beautiful buildings that

1002
01:04:00.329 --> 01:04:04.510 A:middle L:90%
kind ever was Do Dogs. I was buying Colt

1003
01:04:05.289 --> 01:04:09.650 A:middle L:90%
building. That was after the second one was half

1004
01:04:09.650 --> 01:04:12.489 A:middle L:90%
demolished in the the Second World War. And they

1005
01:04:12.500 --> 01:04:15.000 A:middle L:90%
demolished the other half and they built Boyer, not

1006
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:19.849 A:middle L:90%
very impressive replacement of that. And that building really

1007
01:04:19.849 --> 01:04:23.159 A:middle L:90%
worth looking up because that building, you know,

1008
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:25.489 A:middle L:90%
it has the most beautiful, well, you know

1009
01:04:25.489 --> 01:04:27.570 A:middle L:90%
, the whole question of relations in the restaurant and

1010
01:04:28.289 --> 01:04:30.969 A:middle L:90%
and the basic marketing space and and the place of

1011
01:04:30.969 --> 01:04:33.889 A:middle L:90%
the building in the city. And what the the

1012
01:04:33.889 --> 01:04:38.099 A:middle L:90%
way the building was conceived in relation city, they

1013
01:04:38.099 --> 01:04:40.400 A:middle L:90%
would never gave a kind of commerce a sort of

1014
01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:45.679 A:middle L:90%
institutional ah president. And I think in other departments

1015
01:04:45.679 --> 01:04:47.340 A:middle L:90%
, those you can pick it up also as being

1016
01:04:48.079 --> 01:04:50.769 A:middle L:90%
part of the program and part of the general idea

1017
01:04:50.769 --> 01:04:53.650 A:middle L:90%
of what was the department. And you're like,

1018
01:04:53.889 --> 01:04:57.090 A:middle L:90%
I don't even know this peter jones department in Sloane

1019
01:04:57.090 --> 01:05:00.079 A:middle L:90%
square in London. Yeah. Which is has this

1020
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:02.090 A:middle L:90%
kind of quality of the cotton wool. That's something

1021
01:05:02.090 --> 01:05:08.260 A:middle L:90%
that the scholars. Yes. So that was I

1022
01:05:08.260 --> 01:05:13.309 A:middle L:90%
suppose the department stores were the the Epitome of modernity

1023
01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:15.329 A:middle L:90%
as opposed. And that's all. That's very interesting

1024
01:05:15.340 --> 01:05:18.809 A:middle L:90%
because the first department store in 1853, Ico invents

1025
01:05:18.809 --> 01:05:23.739 A:middle L:90%
the bon marche a in 82 it's it's everything under

1026
01:05:23.739 --> 01:05:26.250 A:middle L:90%
one roof, fixed price, no haggling. You

1027
01:05:26.250 --> 01:05:29.230 A:middle L:90%
know, that was the concept and that spread all

1028
01:05:29.230 --> 01:05:31.650 A:middle L:90%
over the world and um and it was a modern

1029
01:05:31.650 --> 01:05:34.949 A:middle L:90%
idea and it would go it would maintain itself until

1030
01:05:35.789 --> 01:05:38.239 A:middle L:90%
Well, you know, into the 50s, I

1031
01:05:38.239 --> 01:05:42.469 A:middle L:90%
suppose. And even sort of in new york anyway

1032
01:05:42.469 --> 01:05:46.599 A:middle L:90%
, still and maybe a few other things I suppose

1033
01:05:46.599 --> 01:05:48.820 A:middle L:90%
, you know, factories also were seen as having

1034
01:05:48.829 --> 01:05:54.320 A:middle L:90%
that. Yes, also having that kind of meaning

1035
01:05:54.320 --> 01:05:56.840 A:middle L:90%
, I suppose, you know, where modernity in

1036
01:05:56.840 --> 01:05:58.710 A:middle L:90%
say had a kind of value, right, modern

1037
01:05:58.710 --> 01:06:02.250 A:middle L:90%
production modern. But I don't think that that in

1038
01:06:02.250 --> 01:06:04.929 A:middle L:90%
either case where the really the subject matter of the

1039
01:06:04.940 --> 01:06:11.369 A:middle L:90%
kind of avant garde, I would look well,

1040
01:06:11.369 --> 01:06:12.949 A:middle L:90%
I suppose, you know, the avant garde in

1041
01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:14.489 A:middle L:90%
the sense that, I mean, it is connected

1042
01:06:14.500 --> 01:06:15.789 A:middle L:90%
to a kind of Socialist project really, basically.

1043
01:06:16.380 --> 01:06:19.840 A:middle L:90%
And um yeah, and I want to say the

1044
01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:23.289 A:middle L:90%
spanish civil war because I think, you know,

1045
01:06:23.289 --> 01:06:29.300 A:middle L:90%
the Socialist Project and particularly one thinks of that,

1046
01:06:29.380 --> 01:06:31.340 A:middle L:90%
that phrase that is outmoded socialism with a human face

1047
01:06:32.659 --> 01:06:34.929 A:middle L:90%
, that I think that disappears in the spanish civil

1048
01:06:34.929 --> 01:06:40.349 A:middle L:90%
war. And it um and after the war,

1049
01:06:40.349 --> 01:06:42.809 A:middle L:90%
you know, it's not possible to pick up the

1050
01:06:42.820 --> 01:06:47.539 A:middle L:90%
pieces anymore and or have that suspension of disbelief about

1051
01:06:47.780 --> 01:06:59.210 A:middle L:90%
modernity. I think it changes. Yes. In

1052
01:06:59.219 --> 01:07:04.559 A:middle L:90%
your arguments for critical regions, you spoke of how

1053
01:07:04.570 --> 01:07:12.429 A:middle L:90%
architecture might be able to draw on the culture of

1054
01:07:12.440 --> 01:07:15.590 A:middle L:90%
being, I think one of the mythology, the

1055
01:07:15.599 --> 01:07:21.139 A:middle L:90%
traditions of particular regions as a way of um at

1056
01:07:21.139 --> 01:07:29.260 A:middle L:90%
least resisting the uniform contingencies of growth. And I

1057
01:07:29.260 --> 01:07:31.769 A:middle L:90%
think examples that we've seen most of those that we

1058
01:07:31.769 --> 01:07:38.690 A:middle L:90%
discuss are drawn from regions uh which may be provincial

1059
01:07:38.690 --> 01:07:41.449 A:middle L:90%
or they may be uh they they have a very

1060
01:07:41.449 --> 01:07:45.090 A:middle L:90%
, very old tradition, certainly not just that we're

1061
01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:48.699 A:middle L:90%
how do you feel and live with this? Places

1062
01:07:48.699 --> 01:07:51.639 A:middle L:90%
that seem to not have that, where everything that

1063
01:07:51.639 --> 01:07:57.360 A:middle L:90%
might be local and specific has been somehow subside within

1064
01:07:57.369 --> 01:08:02.090 A:middle L:90%
this all embracing and globalist culture in those situations?

1065
01:08:02.099 --> 01:08:06.429 A:middle L:90%
What might we be able to draw on heart with

1066
01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:11.900 A:middle L:90%
architecture that might put us in that position of resisting

1067
01:08:11.909 --> 01:08:15.960 A:middle L:90%
this kind of globalism performance. Yeah. You know

1068
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:19.560 A:middle L:90%
, there is a very, very sensitive and and

1069
01:08:19.560 --> 01:08:26.060 A:middle L:90%
also the rigorous critique of the whole critical weakness by

1070
01:08:26.060 --> 01:08:30.399 A:middle L:90%
FREDRIC Jameson in a book called the seeds of time

1071
01:08:32.170 --> 01:08:36.050 A:middle L:90%
. It's quite a severe also makes the same question

1072
01:08:36.050 --> 01:08:39.489 A:middle L:90%
, but it's also the deal, could you?

1073
01:08:40.970 --> 01:08:45.819 A:middle L:90%
Um but it's very expensive. Mhm. Anyway.

1074
01:08:45.829 --> 01:08:47.800 A:middle L:90%
Uh Yeah, well, you know, I think

1075
01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:54.239 A:middle L:90%
universities theoretically should be places of of culture, right

1076
01:08:54.239 --> 01:08:56.840 A:middle L:90%
? They they think of themselves like that and they

1077
01:08:56.840 --> 01:09:00.050 A:middle L:90%
ought to be like that. And um and to

1078
01:09:00.050 --> 01:09:05.619 A:middle L:90%
some extent they have succeeded, but it's not,

1079
01:09:05.630 --> 01:09:09.750 A:middle L:90%
you know, it's called a foregone conclusion, I

1080
01:09:09.750 --> 01:09:15.109 A:middle L:90%
mean, to, to continue with universities as centers

1081
01:09:15.109 --> 01:09:17.000 A:middle L:90%
of culture, you know, you it means it

1082
01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:20.829 A:middle L:90%
means it means that the body of the university has

1083
01:09:20.829 --> 01:09:25.399 A:middle L:90%
to also have this is the project and two,

1084
01:09:26.170 --> 01:09:29.100 A:middle L:90%
and to really have a self conscious attitude towards it

1085
01:09:29.970 --> 01:09:31.100 A:middle L:90%
. And maybe that's the problem. I mean,

1086
01:09:31.939 --> 01:09:34.979 A:middle L:90%
if universities can't do it, what can Yeah,

1087
01:09:34.989 --> 01:09:40.060 A:middle L:90%
or of course small municipalities, maybe even not so

1088
01:09:40.060 --> 01:09:44.600 A:middle L:90%
small municipalities, you could also you can also be

1089
01:09:45.470 --> 01:09:47.520 A:middle L:90%
see that core in life, that's what you're alluding

1090
01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:50.689 A:middle L:90%
to in a way. And, you know,

1091
01:09:51.960 --> 01:09:56.529 A:middle L:90%
recently, for example, in Montreal, you know

1092
01:09:56.529 --> 01:09:59.199 A:middle L:90%
, the cat cow architect built this, they won

1093
01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:02.659 A:middle L:90%
this competition for the Quebec library and they built the

1094
01:10:02.659 --> 01:10:05.479 A:middle L:90%
library and so on with great difficulty by the way

1095
01:10:05.850 --> 01:10:09.279 A:middle L:90%
, you know, as an inter professional level,

1096
01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:12.529 A:middle L:90%
but they did it in the end. And I

1097
01:10:12.529 --> 01:10:14.630 A:middle L:90%
think it's a beautiful building and you know, you

1098
01:10:14.630 --> 01:10:17.470 A:middle L:90%
can associate it with the city of not sure how

1099
01:10:17.470 --> 01:10:21.750 A:middle L:90%
the government works, whether it's Montreal or whether I

1100
01:10:21.750 --> 01:10:24.250 A:middle L:90%
don't quite know how that was done. Whether the

1101
01:10:24.260 --> 01:10:28.989 A:middle L:90%
Quebec state the funding, that thing was to make

1102
01:10:28.989 --> 01:10:32.199 A:middle L:90%
library, it's very interesting that I do know the

1103
01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:39.250 A:middle L:90%
details about the competition because um I did was in

1104
01:10:39.250 --> 01:10:42.800 A:middle L:90%
that competition and Bernard Tschumi wanted her deed to get

1105
01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:46.930 A:middle L:90%
that. And someone called George who was the head

1106
01:10:46.930 --> 01:10:53.220 A:middle L:90%
of the school, the school in uh the university

1107
01:10:53.380 --> 01:10:56.479 A:middle L:90%
Rebecca Montreal, you know, I was able to

1108
01:10:56.479 --> 01:11:00.020 A:middle L:90%
struggle against that and and then give it the prize

1109
01:11:00.020 --> 01:11:02.670 A:middle L:90%
to the, you know, and Packer used half

1110
01:11:02.670 --> 01:11:06.329 A:middle L:90%
the site. No, so it was also more

1111
01:11:06.329 --> 01:11:12.930 A:middle L:90%
economical and yeah, but that was, that was

1112
01:11:12.930 --> 01:11:14.800 A:middle L:90%
a story with a happy ending, but I remember

1113
01:11:14.800 --> 01:11:18.329 A:middle L:90%
a story which was absolutely inconceivable to me, I

1114
01:11:18.340 --> 01:11:21.789 A:middle L:90%
Stephen, okay, calm down, University school of

1115
01:11:21.789 --> 01:11:26.100 A:middle L:90%
Architecture talk to the university into a new school,

1116
01:11:26.109 --> 01:11:28.300 A:middle L:90%
they will write the program to the new school,

1117
01:11:28.310 --> 01:11:30.739 A:middle L:90%
why they do that, then they will choose the

1118
01:11:30.750 --> 01:11:34.149 A:middle L:90%
architects to compete for the design of the new school

1119
01:11:34.609 --> 01:11:40.260 A:middle L:90%
. But they do that and 14 steven Holl,

1120
01:11:44.659 --> 01:11:49.430 A:middle L:90%
I was like, and then they hold a public

1121
01:11:49.430 --> 01:11:54.380 A:middle L:90%
jury or rather the people come and they explained that

1122
01:11:54.430 --> 01:11:56.979 A:middle L:90%
the project to a public meeting, then there's a

1123
01:11:56.979 --> 01:11:59.399 A:middle L:90%
jury of which I was a member and a unanimous

1124
01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:02.960 A:middle L:90%
vote for Stephen House building and within a week the

1125
01:12:02.960 --> 01:12:04.539 A:middle L:90%
School of architecture says we're not going to do that

1126
01:12:04.739 --> 01:12:08.699 A:middle L:90%
, We don't want to do that. And the

1127
01:12:08.699 --> 01:12:12.090 A:middle L:90%
university, to its total shame in my opinion,

1128
01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:14.470 A:middle L:90%
let them get away with that junk, you know

1129
01:12:14.699 --> 01:12:15.800 A:middle L:90%
, that's okay. I mean, I find the

1130
01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:20.569 A:middle L:90%
irresponsibility of university central administrations with regard to their faculties

1131
01:12:21.050 --> 01:12:24.470 A:middle L:90%
, you know, inconceivable because they think this idea

1132
01:12:24.470 --> 01:12:26.590 A:middle L:90%
, while everyone, every ship on its own bottom

1133
01:12:26.760 --> 01:12:29.130 A:middle L:90%
, these faculties should be left alone. I mean

1134
01:12:29.130 --> 01:12:30.970 A:middle L:90%
, but in this is a very extreme case of

1135
01:12:30.970 --> 01:12:32.770 A:middle L:90%
leaving them alone. Right. It's incredible I think

1136
01:12:33.670 --> 01:12:36.720 A:middle L:90%
. And they then built this piece of this work

1137
01:12:36.729 --> 01:12:40.939 A:middle L:90%
by Rem, which is just another knock off,

1138
01:12:40.949 --> 01:12:44.090 A:middle L:90%
you know, because he's a famous architect and moisten

1139
01:12:44.090 --> 01:12:45.260 A:middle L:90%
can't think of anything better but to give him the

1140
01:12:45.260 --> 01:12:49.770 A:middle L:90%
job, you know, it's a horrible look horrible

1141
01:12:51.750 --> 01:12:55.649 A:middle L:90%
and and that's it. It's finished, The money

1142
01:12:55.649 --> 01:12:59.310 A:middle L:90%
is spent, it's done. Yeah. Yeah.

1143
01:13:05.670 --> 01:13:14.100 A:middle L:90%
If you're on another asset. Yeah. You listed

1144
01:13:14.100 --> 01:13:20.130 A:middle L:90%
regional architecture, wonderful architecture. Oh my God,

1145
01:13:20.140 --> 01:13:24.420 A:middle L:90%
it's very incredible architects, I don't know, you

1146
01:13:24.420 --> 01:13:29.479 A:middle L:90%
know, everywhere. Right. You know, Australia

1147
01:13:30.289 --> 01:13:35.130 A:middle L:90%
Canada, I mean, are they are they are

1148
01:13:35.140 --> 01:13:38.680 A:middle L:90%
different. Are they really critical reasons, I mean

1149
01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:42.340 A:middle L:90%
, you know, but would I yes, I

1150
01:13:42.340 --> 01:13:45.880 A:middle L:90%
mean kind of an anthropological game would you, who

1151
01:13:45.880 --> 01:13:46.590 A:middle L:90%
would you include? And I can think of,

1152
01:13:48.850 --> 01:13:55.449 A:middle L:90%
Yeah, Shim Sutcliffe and that's brian Mackay Lyons and

1153
01:13:55.880 --> 01:14:05.100 A:middle L:90%
and blake Flatow and what's his name, Bolin Yes

1154
01:14:05.109 --> 01:14:13.199 A:middle L:90%
. Right. And yeah. And also uh yes

1155
01:14:13.210 --> 01:14:15.630 A:middle L:90%
, no, no Chipperfield maybe, I mean,

1156
01:14:15.640 --> 01:14:19.789 A:middle L:90%
you know, it's a big, certainly irish to

1157
01:14:19.789 --> 01:14:25.449 A:middle L:90%
me, a donald grafton Architects Change of Black,

1158
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:30.069 A:middle L:90%
you're black. And then Mark. Um, yeah

1159
01:14:30.069 --> 01:14:35.960 A:middle L:90%
, I mean it takes a while but thank you

1160
01:14:38.039 --> 01:14:40.479 A:middle L:90%
, you know, did do a fairly nice little

1161
01:14:40.479 --> 01:14:43.090 A:middle L:90%
library building in Holland. Right. About the time

1162
01:14:43.090 --> 01:14:45.670 A:middle L:90%
he got started with his practice. Beautiful little place

1163
01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:53.270 A:middle L:90%
. Where is that? Mm hmm, mm hmm

1164
01:14:54.640 --> 01:14:58.699 A:middle L:90%
. It's a nice building. It seems like so

1165
01:14:58.699 --> 01:15:01.770 A:middle L:90%
many architects are falling into that. That mode expanded

1166
01:15:03.039 --> 01:15:08.829 A:middle L:90%
. Yes. Yes. It is something that's gonna

1167
01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:10.739 A:middle L:90%
get published. Yeah, that's it, of course

1168
01:15:11.539 --> 01:15:16.579 A:middle L:90%
just that, yes. Uh, yes, you

1169
01:15:16.579 --> 01:15:23.409 A:middle L:90%
mentioned a few times the word micro sorry, you

1170
01:15:23.409 --> 01:15:28.020 A:middle L:90%
mentioned the word proposals. I would like to ask

1171
01:15:28.029 --> 01:15:30.529 A:middle L:90%
do you think in the work of Mies van der

1172
01:15:30.529 --> 01:15:33.359 A:middle L:90%
Rohe in the many buildings that he built? That

1173
01:15:33.359 --> 01:15:35.720 A:middle L:90%
is true. And how much the program is a

1174
01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:41.069 A:middle L:90%
driving force there? The last part of the program

1175
01:15:41.069 --> 01:15:45.960 A:middle L:90%
program isn't driving force clearly think, you know,

1176
01:15:45.340 --> 01:15:49.520 A:middle L:90%
make sure apartments, National Gallery in Berlin and a

1177
01:15:49.529 --> 01:15:55.000 A:middle L:90%
few other buildings. That's a that's a that's a

1178
01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:00.819 A:middle L:90%
tough question because you know, then Visa be,

1179
01:16:01.229 --> 01:16:03.000 A:middle L:90%
you know, there's a very good book, you

1180
01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:06.750 A:middle L:90%
know, which is this fritz, Nomar's the word

1181
01:16:09.149 --> 01:16:12.649 A:middle L:90%
and in that book there is this reference to um

1182
01:16:13.229 --> 01:16:17.239 A:middle L:90%
Ramana martini who was a Jesuit philosopher and you know

1183
01:16:17.239 --> 01:16:23.130 A:middle L:90%
this speaker and and He had been taken as a

1184
01:16:23.140 --> 01:16:25.640 A:middle L:90%
two year old or something from Como to Berlin.

1185
01:16:26.529 --> 01:16:28.789 A:middle L:90%
And there is a 1937, he publishes a set

1186
01:16:28.789 --> 01:16:33.250 A:middle L:90%
of letters called Letters from Como in which he um

1187
01:16:34.729 --> 01:16:36.659 A:middle L:90%
, you know, contrast, you know, he's

1188
01:16:36.659 --> 01:16:42.779 A:middle L:90%
still existing agrarian society of como to the massive the

1189
01:16:42.949 --> 01:16:46.420 A:middle L:90%
techno scientific industrial city of Berlin. And then he

1190
01:16:46.420 --> 01:16:49.859 A:middle L:90%
has a statement about modern technology, about how we

1191
01:16:49.859 --> 01:16:54.050 A:middle L:90%
don't have a choice but to embrace modern technology.

1192
01:16:54.829 --> 01:16:57.479 A:middle L:90%
But we have to, as he puts it in

1193
01:16:57.479 --> 01:16:59.199 A:middle L:90%
any way, an english translation, we have to

1194
01:16:59.199 --> 01:17:00.640 A:middle L:90%
say yes to it, but we have to do

1195
01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:04.140 A:middle L:90%
that aware of everything that is dangerous in it.

1196
01:17:04.350 --> 01:17:05.550 A:middle L:90%
You know, this is the way he put it

1197
01:17:06.619 --> 01:17:09.810 A:middle L:90%
. And I think this was very influenced by this

1198
01:17:09.810 --> 01:17:13.329 A:middle L:90%
guy. I think that in my opinion, the

1199
01:17:13.329 --> 01:17:17.819 A:middle L:90%
somewhat enigmatic character of meat is full of illuminated by

1200
01:17:18.090 --> 01:17:21.699 A:middle L:90%
this book of mars where he reveals the importance of

1201
01:17:21.699 --> 01:17:26.619 A:middle L:90%
Gardini in the thinking. It was not only Gardenia

1202
01:17:26.630 --> 01:17:29.899 A:middle L:90%
because I think more than anybody else, probably german

1203
01:17:29.899 --> 01:17:34.270 A:middle L:90%
philosophers and Germany altogether maybe had to deal with with

1204
01:17:34.270 --> 01:17:38.180 A:middle L:90%
the onslaught of technology or they were aware of it

1205
01:17:38.189 --> 01:17:42.729 A:middle L:90%
more maybe more self conscious, then let's say english

1206
01:17:42.729 --> 01:17:49.960 A:middle L:90%
or american. Okay, Yes. And and then

1207
01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:57.039 A:middle L:90%
part of mrs kind of um silence is, you

1208
01:17:57.039 --> 01:18:00.979 A:middle L:90%
know that if you make the space big enough society

1209
01:18:00.979 --> 01:18:03.180 A:middle L:90%
will just do what they want. And there's no

1210
01:18:03.180 --> 01:18:10.960 A:middle L:90%
problem because there's sort of ultimate flexibility. And so

1211
01:18:10.960 --> 01:18:12.470 A:middle L:90%
in that sense, of course, because I think

1212
01:18:12.470 --> 01:18:15.170 A:middle L:90%
that's where your question is coming from. The program

1213
01:18:15.310 --> 01:18:21.500 A:middle L:90%
program doesn't really play a big role because kind of

1214
01:18:21.500 --> 01:18:26.130 A:middle L:90%
accepted either. Well, if it's an apartment building

1215
01:18:26.130 --> 01:18:28.710 A:middle L:90%
, of course it's sort of fairly normative. I

1216
01:18:28.710 --> 01:18:30.890 A:middle L:90%
mean he tried of course in the living dining kitchen

1217
01:18:30.890 --> 01:18:35.449 A:middle L:90%
arrangement in the original lecture to create some fluid space

1218
01:18:35.449 --> 01:18:39.069 A:middle L:90%
, not unlike, you know, the broken heart

1219
01:18:39.069 --> 01:18:42.460 A:middle L:90%
or or the Berlin building exhibition, but of course

1220
01:18:42.460 --> 01:18:44.720 A:middle L:90%
he can't do much of that. And even I

1221
01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:46.439 A:middle L:90%
think in the ideal projects were not carried through exactly

1222
01:18:46.439 --> 01:18:53.069 A:middle L:90%
as he wanted in any case. And but you

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01:18:53.069 --> 01:18:58.000 A:middle L:90%
know, it was kind of the terra terra steel

1224
01:18:58.000 --> 01:19:00.840 A:middle L:90%
frame construction, green green hold as a developer client

1225
01:19:01.319 --> 01:19:04.850 A:middle L:90%
. It was absolutely not sentimental in any way whatsoever

1226
01:19:05.619 --> 01:19:10.260 A:middle L:90%
. And it's modified in a very subtle way.

1227
01:19:10.270 --> 01:19:15.149 A:middle L:90%
The relationship between the the fireproof steel frame and glazing

1228
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:21.939 A:middle L:90%
and Yeah, so I mean I kind of answered

1229
01:19:21.939 --> 01:19:24.779 A:middle L:90%
the question I suppose or not answer this. I

1230
01:19:24.779 --> 01:19:30.720 A:middle L:90%
mean, um not since you know miss uh what

1231
01:19:30.729 --> 01:19:32.579 A:middle L:90%
how did where do you go with it? You

1232
01:19:32.579 --> 01:19:34.930 A:middle L:90%
know, I mean it is what it is is

1233
01:19:34.930 --> 01:19:43.529 A:middle L:90%
a kind of answer a Architecture degree zero answer two

1234
01:19:44.220 --> 01:19:47.760 A:middle L:90%
building. But I don't think, you know,

1235
01:19:48.149 --> 01:20:03.939 A:middle L:90%
is that really something we can develop? Thank you