WEBVTT 00:00:08.450 --> 00:00:11.820 Can I have your attention, please? We are 00:00:11.820 --> 00:00:14.730 going to go ahead and get started with our next session, 00:00:14.730 --> 00:00:17.580 which is a community panel discussion 00:00:17.580 --> 00:00:20.655 on the notion of Support the Troops. 00:00:20.655 --> 00:00:24.210 I want to start off by introducing myself briefly. 00:00:24.210 --> 00:00:26.790 My name is Eric Hodges and I am 00:00:26.790 --> 00:00:28.500 a PhD student at Virginia Tech 00:00:28.500 --> 00:00:30.720 although I recently did my dissertation. 00:00:30.720 --> 00:00:39.360 [APPLAUSE] Jim and Bruce 00:00:39.360 --> 00:00:41.640 were actually members of my PhD committee 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:44.040 and in many ways,this conference came out of 00:00:44.040 --> 00:00:46.875 our collaboration on that work so, 00:00:46.875 --> 00:00:50.070 I'm feel gratified to see everybody come out for this, 00:00:50.070 --> 00:00:52.020 so I want to thank you guys for that. 00:00:52.020 --> 00:00:53.520 [NOISE] [OVERLAPPING] So, through to 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.110 the format of this panel, 00:00:55.110 --> 00:00:57.020 I'm going to do a brief introduction 00:00:57.020 --> 00:00:58.545 of all our panelists. 00:00:58.545 --> 00:01:01.830 I'm going to just say a few brief words about why I think 00:01:01.830 --> 00:01:03.180 this particular discussion is 00:01:03.180 --> 00:01:05.910 important then I'm going to turn it over to the panel, 00:01:05.910 --> 00:01:07.575 starting with Professor Salaita, 00:01:07.575 --> 00:01:11.280 and then just move this way and they're going to 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.425 give an introductory remark 00:01:13.425 --> 00:01:15.735 and their general impressions, 00:01:15.735 --> 00:01:19.470 professor Salaita's article and Support the Troops. 00:01:19.470 --> 00:01:22.740 [OVERLAPPING] Professor Steven Salaita 00:01:22.740 --> 00:01:25.515 is an associate professor of English at Virginia Tech. 00:01:25.515 --> 00:01:27.290 He's the author of six books and 00:01:27.290 --> 00:01:29.375 writes frequently about Arab-Americans, 00:01:29.375 --> 00:01:32.780 Palestine, indigenous peoples, and decolonization. 00:01:32.780 --> 00:01:34.700 His current book project is entitled 00:01:34.700 --> 00:01:38.075 Images of Arabs and Muslims in the Age of Obama. 00:01:38.075 --> 00:01:40.140 Steven grew up in Winfield, Virginia, 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:41.250 to a mother from Nicaragua, 00:01:41.250 --> 00:01:43.320 a mile away from Palestine , 00:01:43.320 --> 00:01:45.525 and his father was a man from Jordan. 00:01:45.525 --> 00:01:47.730 He now lives his life from Virginia with his wife, 00:01:47.730 --> 00:01:50.760 [NOISE] [inaudible]. 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:52.950 Gil Ott is a retired pastor and 00:01:52.950 --> 00:01:54.780 Head Chaplain or interventionist in 00:01:54.780 --> 00:01:57.120 both the United Methodist and Reformed Church of America. 00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:59.220 He was also a senior administrator 00:01:59.220 --> 00:02:01.545 at Cornell University for 15 years. 00:02:01.545 --> 00:02:04.715 Prior to that, he worked in both industry and government. 00:02:04.715 --> 00:02:07.460 He completed his grad work in Yale University, 00:02:07.460 --> 00:02:11.415 earning both Master of Identity and STM, 00:02:11.415 --> 00:02:13.185 Master of Theology degrees. 00:02:13.185 --> 00:02:17.165 He served in the United States Army from 1968-1970, 00:02:17.165 --> 00:02:19.100 including Paul Watson in Vietnam as 00:02:19.100 --> 00:02:22.360 an entry man with 101st airborne division, 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:24.720 where he was awarded the army commendation medal and 00:02:24.720 --> 00:02:27.075 distinguished himself in close war combat, 00:02:27.075 --> 00:02:30.295 and a bronze star for meritorious service. 00:02:30.295 --> 00:02:33.620 Colonel John Montgomery is the commander of 00:02:33.620 --> 00:02:35.690 the 870th Detachment of 00:02:35.690 --> 00:02:37.940 the Air Force Reserve Officer Training Core, 00:02:37.940 --> 00:02:39.520 and professor of Aerospace Studies at 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:41.030 the Virginia Polytechnic Institute 00:02:41.030 --> 00:02:43.135 and State College in Blacksburg, Virginia. 00:02:43.135 --> 00:02:45.600 He commands Air Force ROTC Unit that 00:02:45.600 --> 00:02:48.315 administer the College Level Officer Training Program, 00:02:48.315 --> 00:02:51.105 to shape the next generation commissioned officers. 00:02:51.105 --> 00:02:52.770 In addition, he chairs The Department of 00:02:52.770 --> 00:02:54.780 Aerospace Studies in the University staffs as 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:56.810 a full professor and structured curriculum 00:02:56.810 --> 00:02:59.060 covering foundations of the US Air Force, 00:02:59.060 --> 00:03:02.420 Air Force history, leadership and national security. 00:03:02.420 --> 00:03:04.520 Before his current position he served as 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.400 the last 98 range wing commander at 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:09.110 Nellis air force base responsible for 00:03:09.110 --> 00:03:11.630 the Air Force's most important operating space 00:03:11.630 --> 00:03:13.595 in the modern test and training rank. 00:03:13.595 --> 00:03:16.039 So I want to start off by thanking our panelists 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:19.380 for coming up with this very important discussion. 00:03:19.380 --> 00:03:21.890 One of the reasons that I think that this 00:03:21.890 --> 00:03:24.380 is such an important discussion and, 00:03:24.380 --> 00:03:26.090 I gave a TED talk at 00:03:26.090 --> 00:03:28.355 Virginia Tech a couple of months ago about 00:03:28.355 --> 00:03:30.500 the growing boundary between 00:03:30.500 --> 00:03:32.840 the civilian society and the military culture, 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:35.990 and much of this conference has been focused on that. 00:03:35.990 --> 00:03:38.495 But right now in the United States, 00:03:38.495 --> 00:03:40.460 we had the lowest percentage in 00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:42.530 American history of our citizens 00:03:42.530 --> 00:03:44.270 who actually find their rewards. 00:03:44.270 --> 00:03:47.495 Right now it's about 25 percent 00:03:47.495 --> 00:03:50.240 of American citizens are actually serving the military, 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:51.260 and serving in the two 00:03:51.260 --> 00:03:54.310 longest-running wars in American history. 00:03:54.310 --> 00:03:57.090 So, that is one of the issues that's leading to 00:03:57.090 --> 00:04:00.410 the strong cultural disconnect that we see our society 00:04:00.410 --> 00:04:03.970 now pleading for a lot of veterans found doing crack. 00:04:03.970 --> 00:04:06.290 We see that, last year 00:04:06.290 --> 00:04:08.000 the number of veterans who were actually taking 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.560 their own lives is actually up than 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:12.250 the number of combat fatalities. 00:04:12.250 --> 00:04:15.530 So when we have this strong cultural disconnect between 00:04:15.530 --> 00:04:17.030 those who serve the military and those 00:04:17.030 --> 00:04:18.710 who do not in our society, 00:04:18.710 --> 00:04:20.180 this notion of Support the Troops 00:04:20.180 --> 00:04:21.840 becomes really important. 00:04:21.840 --> 00:04:23.270 Because when you have 00:04:23.270 --> 00:04:26.360 such a small percentage of our population that is 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:28.880 bearing the burden of combat as 00:04:28.880 --> 00:04:31.610 we've seen throughout these presentations, 00:04:31.610 --> 00:04:33.665 the costs of war are tremendous, 00:04:33.665 --> 00:04:35.150 and not only to the veterans 00:04:35.150 --> 00:04:37.080 but to their families as well. 00:04:37.080 --> 00:04:39.310 So it raises questions of what does 00:04:39.310 --> 00:04:41.080 it actually mean to support 00:04:41.080 --> 00:04:44.065 the troops when we have such a strong divide 00:04:44.065 --> 00:04:46.925 between those who have served and those who have not? 00:04:46.925 --> 00:04:49.750 I think honestly, there's a lot 00:04:49.750 --> 00:04:51.130 of misunderstanding about what it 00:04:51.130 --> 00:04:52.945 means to serve in the military. 00:04:52.945 --> 00:04:55.580 So we have so few citizens that have actually done that. 00:04:55.580 --> 00:04:59.190 In this concept of how do I support the troops? 00:04:59.190 --> 00:05:01.020 I think there's a lot more other people 00:05:01.020 --> 00:05:02.400 wanting support the troops, 00:05:02.400 --> 00:05:04.755 they may just not know how. 00:05:04.755 --> 00:05:07.270 So that's why this particular panel, 00:05:07.270 --> 00:05:08.760 this notion of supporting the troops in 00:05:08.760 --> 00:05:10.740 our society is a big way forward. 00:05:10.740 --> 00:05:12.975 So what I wanna do is go ahead and start with 00:05:12.975 --> 00:05:15.220 professor Salaita to open 00:05:15.220 --> 00:05:17.500 this up on this panel discussion. 00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:21.190 Thank you, everybody. Are you okay? 00:05:21.190 --> 00:05:25.840 Okay. Well, thank you Dr. Hodges for the [LAUGHTER], 00:05:25.840 --> 00:05:27.115 he won't get all of it. 00:05:27.115 --> 00:05:32.855 I want to thank the Reverend and 00:05:32.855 --> 00:05:36.990 Colonel for joining me here in this panel, 00:05:36.990 --> 00:05:38.700 especially to professor Dubinsky 00:05:38.700 --> 00:05:40.750 for putting this together. 00:05:40.750 --> 00:05:43.690 It's a wonderful program and, 00:05:44.090 --> 00:05:47.280 I would enthusiastically support 00:05:47.280 --> 00:05:50.610 the further inquiry study 00:05:50.610 --> 00:05:53.010 of evidence in the society that brings me to take , 00:05:53.010 --> 00:05:54.740 this is a very good place for 00:05:54.740 --> 00:05:56.880 this thing to happen so it's 00:05:56.880 --> 00:06:01.040 an exciting moment and I hope it continues to build. 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.240 I'm going to talk just for a moment, 00:06:04.270 --> 00:06:07.084 looking at Dr. Hodges' comments 00:06:07.084 --> 00:06:12.415 and looking at the brake material from the panel, 00:06:12.415 --> 00:06:14.090 there was emphasis on dialogue and 00:06:14.090 --> 00:06:16.940 conversation and so I'm happy to answer 00:06:16.940 --> 00:06:18.680 any questions or field 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:20.510 any criticism slash critiques 00:06:20.510 --> 00:06:23.480 that anybody in the audience might have but, 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:27.740 my basic point is that I don't come 00:06:27.740 --> 00:06:32.485 into this issue as somebody who has military experience. 00:06:32.485 --> 00:06:38.030 I don't come into this issue and as somebody who has 00:06:38.030 --> 00:06:44.145 a specific ideological commitment. 00:06:44.145 --> 00:06:47.505 I come into this as somebody who for a living, 00:06:47.505 --> 00:06:50.160 analyses these forces and looks at a 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:51.870 particular accounts that cause dysfunction 00:06:51.870 --> 00:06:53.775 in society and so, 00:06:53.775 --> 00:06:58.440 with a phrase like "Support the troops", 00:06:58.440 --> 00:07:02.285 I apparently understood, as probably do a lot of people, 00:07:02.285 --> 00:07:04.910 that there were subtexts and 00:07:04.910 --> 00:07:08.764 contexts to that kind of phrase that don't 00:07:08.764 --> 00:07:12.875 often see the light of day in terms of 00:07:12.875 --> 00:07:15.410 public scrutiny or analysis and I wanted to 00:07:15.410 --> 00:07:18.905 provide some scrutiny analysis to that phrase. 00:07:18.905 --> 00:07:21.095 I think in particular, 00:07:21.095 --> 00:07:23.850 based on my observation that the phrase 00:07:23.850 --> 00:07:27.645 "Support the troops" without and context, 00:07:27.645 --> 00:07:29.910 just as phrase that's so facto 00:07:29.910 --> 00:07:32.070 is something that is repeated at 00:07:32.070 --> 00:07:35.240 sporting events and in airports 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:38.910 and just getting a cultural discourse in general. 00:07:38.910 --> 00:07:42.725 Often acts as a stand in for 00:07:42.725 --> 00:07:46.520 the real meaning of supports team power and I find it 00:07:46.520 --> 00:07:49.820 troublesome the way that troops end up becoming 00:07:49.820 --> 00:07:55.540 selectively of state power in an economy for state power. 00:07:55.540 --> 00:07:59.744 What happens in a lot of these discourse troops, 00:07:59.744 --> 00:08:02.265 in becoming synonymous with 00:08:02.265 --> 00:08:04.990 the state and with foreign policy, 00:08:04.990 --> 00:08:07.970 actually serve as a shield 00:08:07.970 --> 00:08:10.700 to protect the state from critique, 00:08:10.700 --> 00:08:18.985 to protect the state from criticism and also to humanize 00:08:18.985 --> 00:08:21.800 overseas intervention in such a way 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:25.790 as to make it extremely difficult to speak 00:08:25.790 --> 00:08:29.600 against them without simultaneously feeling that you 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:35.130 are abandoning your fellow compatriots. 00:08:35.340 --> 00:08:39.580 There's a phrase in the piece, 00:08:39.580 --> 00:08:41.200 and its one that I tend to find 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:44.470 useful is blind patriotism. 00:08:44.470 --> 00:08:47.680 I got a lot of comments on 00:08:47.680 --> 00:08:50.410 both negative and positive response to the piece, 00:08:50.410 --> 00:08:52.240 but the comment that I kept seeing 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.310 consistently is, what about country x? 00:08:54.310 --> 00:08:55.330 What about country Y? 00:08:55.330 --> 00:08:56.830 Or country Z? 00:08:56.830 --> 00:08:59.065 My answer to that is simple. 00:08:59.065 --> 00:09:03.010 I feel that patriotism as discourse, 00:09:03.010 --> 00:09:05.170 can be and very often is 00:09:05.170 --> 00:09:07.420 problematic in lots of places in the world. 00:09:07.420 --> 00:09:09.580 I'm just as skeptical about 00:09:09.580 --> 00:09:13.450 Jordanian patriotism that's my bad [inaudible]. 00:09:13.450 --> 00:09:15.760 In my country too I'm a citizen of Jordan, 00:09:15.760 --> 00:09:17.230 I'm just as skeptical of 00:09:17.230 --> 00:09:20.710 Jordanian patriotism as I am of American or Asian or 00:09:20.710 --> 00:09:23.800 any other form of patriotism that shuts 00:09:23.800 --> 00:09:28.195 down critical thought and inquiry into, 00:09:28.195 --> 00:09:32.544 the consequences of certain policies, 00:09:32.544 --> 00:09:36.760 and certain decisions made with the level of government. 00:09:36.760 --> 00:09:40.495 Support the troops who need from it loses meaning, 00:09:40.495 --> 00:09:43.600 as something that actually 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:45.505 gets us to focus on the troops, 00:09:45.505 --> 00:09:49.075 and invokes the troops as 00:09:49.075 --> 00:09:54.070 a context for obeisance to say power, 00:09:54.070 --> 00:09:55.600 local practice, 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:57.935 and one of the things that I had difficult, 00:09:57.935 --> 00:10:01.500 really important that we live with Dr. Hodges. 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:04.960 If we look at the actual support 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:07.135 that troops as human beings. 00:10:07.135 --> 00:10:10.510 Again, it's not an exploitable political class, 00:10:10.510 --> 00:10:13.660 you'll see troops as human beings with human needs. 00:10:13.660 --> 00:10:14.935 You begin to see 00:10:14.935 --> 00:10:17.290 the support they actually receive, right? 00:10:17.290 --> 00:10:20.575 Is in many cases inadequate. 00:10:20.575 --> 00:10:24.835 It's inadequate in terms of a fleet of integration, 00:10:24.835 --> 00:10:29.215 is inadequate in terms of mental health support. 00:10:29.215 --> 00:10:32.930 It's very often inadequate in terms of 00:10:33.510 --> 00:10:37.480 their access to proper medical treatment 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:40.705 when they return and it's inadequate, this is important. 00:10:40.705 --> 00:10:48.070 In terms of we should question whether supporting 00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:50.890 the troops by supporting 00:10:50.890 --> 00:10:52.660 whatever reason that the government 00:10:52.660 --> 00:10:54.460 deployed them for is 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.665 the most productive form of support, in each case. 00:10:58.665 --> 00:11:02.245 So it can aggregate in some work, 00:11:02.245 --> 00:11:04.930 the troops are fighting and still some of the troops 00:11:04.930 --> 00:11:07.645 and these are central questions to ask. 00:11:07.645 --> 00:11:10.015 I'll stop because I don't want to run on for too long. 00:11:10.015 --> 00:11:12.220 But I'll pass it on and I look forward 00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:13.840 to continuing the conversation 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:15.250 with you with my colleagues. 00:11:15.250 --> 00:11:18.440 Okay. We'll pass it on to Reverend Ott. 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:22.400 Well, it's okay. 00:11:22.950 --> 00:11:26.590 I understand that point you're making 00:11:26.590 --> 00:11:31.075 has context and all. 00:11:31.075 --> 00:11:34.030 In a sense that I also congratulate you for 00:11:34.030 --> 00:11:38.390 identifying the elephant in the living room. 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:41.740 I'm talking from the perspective of 00:11:41.740 --> 00:11:43.750 someone who was very active in 00:11:43.750 --> 00:11:47.530 the anti-war movement in the last war. 00:11:47.530 --> 00:11:49.930 In point of fact, some of them actively with 00:11:49.930 --> 00:11:55.344 the Vietnam veterans anti-war movement 00:11:55.344 --> 00:11:58.450 immediately after the Vietnam service. 00:11:58.450 --> 00:12:06.940 But the idea of somebody out there, 00:12:06.940 --> 00:12:11.800 correct if I'm wrong, the idea of not 00:12:11.800 --> 00:12:13.510 supporting the war was tantamount 00:12:13.510 --> 00:12:16.430 to not supporting our troops. 00:12:16.530 --> 00:12:19.210 I think was a construct 00:12:19.210 --> 00:12:21.655 that came out of the Nixon administration, 00:12:21.655 --> 00:12:23.950 I don't know if it was Richard Nixon was 00:12:23.950 --> 00:12:26.890 fair language came up with that, 00:12:26.890 --> 00:12:28.450 but that was the positioning because at 00:12:28.450 --> 00:12:30.999 least in my recollection, 00:12:30.999 --> 00:12:34.180 and in my experience that hey if you're not in support, 00:12:34.180 --> 00:12:36.370 then who will support the troops? 00:12:36.370 --> 00:12:38.770 Conversely, if you want to 00:12:38.770 --> 00:12:40.539 support the troops you've got to support 00:12:40.539 --> 00:12:45.050 our dirty little war in Southeast Asia. 00:12:45.690 --> 00:12:48.865 I'm going to have this stick my neck out in 00:12:48.865 --> 00:12:52.630 the stands and false dichotomy. 00:12:52.630 --> 00:12:56.110 I believe you can, 00:12:56.110 --> 00:12:59.260 in a number of very demonstrable 00:12:59.260 --> 00:13:05.155 ways support the troops. 00:13:05.155 --> 00:13:08.650 Who I defined just about 00:13:08.650 --> 00:13:12.610 everybody in uniform except or maybe even including, 00:13:12.610 --> 00:13:19.180 but a handful of very senior military officers 00:13:19.180 --> 00:13:22.780 that are involved in policy-making, 00:13:22.780 --> 00:13:24.925 and it's a very small number there. 00:13:24.925 --> 00:13:26.830 But virtually, everybody else I'm going 00:13:26.830 --> 00:13:31.130 to put into that group called the troops. 00:13:35.130 --> 00:13:39.265 I lettered veterans for peace chapter during 00:13:39.265 --> 00:13:43.165 the first goals for working and we were 00:13:43.165 --> 00:13:48.040 constantly in demand by various other smaller factions of 00:13:48.040 --> 00:13:53.830 the larger piece anti-war movement there in Ithaca, 00:13:53.830 --> 00:13:57.850 New York to join with them, 00:13:57.850 --> 00:14:01.075 have a presence with them because they were so sensitive 00:14:01.075 --> 00:14:05.230 about being charged with 00:14:05.230 --> 00:14:07.000 this idea of not supporting the troops. 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:09.380 So you don't support the truth. 00:14:10.110 --> 00:14:13.765 We did not request there, but we also, 00:14:13.765 --> 00:14:17.545 I think they just want to make the point that the troops, 00:14:17.545 --> 00:14:19.750 except for that small group of 00:14:19.750 --> 00:14:26.935 very senior military officers, don't make policy. 00:14:26.935 --> 00:14:28.900 But you don't make policy, 00:14:28.900 --> 00:14:33.835 I always e-mail with a spec for infant treatment lack 00:14:33.835 --> 00:14:39.655 an Assistant Secretary of State had soldiers. 00:14:39.655 --> 00:14:41.410 I think this is one of the reasons 00:14:41.410 --> 00:14:45.400 why we hold them 00:14:45.400 --> 00:14:49.760 weirder and why we should hold them in our hearts. 00:14:50.190 --> 00:14:55.480 We asked them to do some pretty awful things. 00:14:55.480 --> 00:15:00.460 Even in this time, the work is often dirty, 00:15:00.460 --> 00:15:02.575 and it's often dangerous. 00:15:02.575 --> 00:15:08.830 Certainly, when we have these wars going on and 00:15:08.830 --> 00:15:15.910 casualties come backlog every day it speaks for itself. 00:15:15.910 --> 00:15:18.400 So basically, the deal 00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:24.520 is you'd go to war when we tell you to, 00:15:24.520 --> 00:15:27.130 and we've got to hold dear in our hearts. 00:15:27.130 --> 00:15:32.920 If you see that how I see it, 00:15:32.920 --> 00:15:34.000 and then I can give you a lot of 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:37.300 more examples of how you can do that. 00:15:37.300 --> 00:15:42.460 Why I see it has cost our economy and why it's 00:15:42.460 --> 00:15:44.770 much easier for at least identifying 00:15:44.770 --> 00:15:47.800 these elephants in the living room. 00:15:47.800 --> 00:15:53.440 We've got to keep thinking about this. Pass it on. 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:55.315 John Montgomery. 00:15:55.315 --> 00:15:58.630 Thanks very much. Well, it's interesting if we talk 00:15:58.630 --> 00:16:00.040 about the elephant room because I'm going to 00:16:00.040 --> 00:16:01.975 talk a little bit about the elephant in the room, 00:16:01.975 --> 00:16:05.605 and talk about false dichotomy. 00:16:05.605 --> 00:16:09.400 I have series of tubes down thinking about 00:16:09.400 --> 00:16:14.260 my first series was that the Reverend, 00:16:14.260 --> 00:16:16.030 in between Steve and I, 00:16:16.030 --> 00:16:18.650 not to keep us from killing each other. 00:16:18.990 --> 00:16:24.190 The two of us have actually had a chat when the article came out, 00:16:24.190 --> 00:16:26.800 and I invited him up to Air Force ROTC 00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:28.390 showed him our building 00:16:28.390 --> 00:16:30.070 that we spoke for an hour or so, 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:33.160 and then recently, I allowed my cadets 00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:36.985 to spend an hour with him and discuss the article. 00:16:36.985 --> 00:16:39.445 There isn't an animosity between us, 00:16:39.445 --> 00:16:44.230 but that was the two first and there's two of us 00:16:44.230 --> 00:16:46.210 gathered around a little bit of a background. 00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:48.940 But my comments aren't going to be all 00:16:48.940 --> 00:16:50.380 positive because it's a little bit 00:16:50.380 --> 00:16:52.225 of a Tale of Two Cities. 00:16:52.225 --> 00:16:58.645 So on the one hand, the article was amazing, 00:16:58.645 --> 00:17:02.110 and on the other hand, the article was insulting. 00:17:02.110 --> 00:17:04.360 So I'm going to talk about that 00:17:04.360 --> 00:17:08.620 [inaudible] hopes that we can move past that over, 00:17:08.620 --> 00:17:10.330 and understanding it really 00:17:10.330 --> 00:17:12.040 is as part of the lesson learned, 00:17:12.040 --> 00:17:14.335 or for the finding for everybody. 00:17:14.335 --> 00:17:16.690 If you're going to help a veteran, 00:17:16.690 --> 00:17:21.520 which I think the intent of the article was to help veterans, you can't... 00:17:21.520 --> 00:17:22.870 You have to live in their shoes and 00:17:22.870 --> 00:17:24.445 you have to speak their language. 00:17:24.445 --> 00:17:26.500 Some of the things you can't do 00:17:26.500 --> 00:17:30.570 is while speaking to them and insult them. 00:17:30.570 --> 00:17:33.550 Where do I go with that? 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.430 In this discussion here, 00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:39.130 as they introduced this conference, 00:17:39.130 --> 00:17:40.645 they talked about cornerstones. 00:17:40.645 --> 00:17:43.420 One of those cornerstones was 00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:48.320 this panel is they will speak up. 00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:52.085 So my two cornerstones for the military are two things. 00:17:52.085 --> 00:17:55.400 One of them is called mistakes versus crime, 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:58.325 and the other one is fight with a happy heart. 00:17:58.325 --> 00:18:02.765 By taking those two elements 00:18:02.765 --> 00:18:06.935 of our culture and flipping them against us. 00:18:06.935 --> 00:18:11.630 The article is now a gong to military people. 00:18:11.630 --> 00:18:14.155 Let's talk about the state versus crimes first. 00:18:14.155 --> 00:18:17.870 When I got to my first pilot training based in 1986, 00:18:17.870 --> 00:18:19.580 after graduating the academy, 00:18:19.580 --> 00:18:23.470 my boss's boss's boss got up and said the 00:18:23.470 --> 00:18:27.690 following and I've heard this every single time I flew, 00:18:27.690 --> 00:18:29.315 because I fly airplanes. 00:18:29.315 --> 00:18:32.525 My boss's boss's boss sits us down, 00:18:32.525 --> 00:18:33.710 called the link commander 00:18:33.710 --> 00:18:37.420 [inaudible] for a unit of fliers. 00:18:37.420 --> 00:18:40.035 He says the following, "Over 00:18:40.035 --> 00:18:41.540 the next several years you will 00:18:41.540 --> 00:18:44.045 have lots of rules and regulations, 00:18:44.045 --> 00:18:46.415 standards and procedures, 00:18:46.415 --> 00:18:49.880 and rules of engagement that you will follow. 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:52.045 You will make mistakes. 00:18:52.045 --> 00:18:55.050 You will acknowledge those mistakes 00:18:55.050 --> 00:18:58.200 and there are so many rules that mistakes will happen, 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.480 which will acknowledge them as soon as you can 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.770 debrief when you evaluate them. 00:19:02.770 --> 00:19:05.335 As soon as you can see what kind of level 00:19:05.335 --> 00:19:09.200 of interference or what kind 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.990 of interdiction that we need to have. 00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:14.510 But we will still stick 00:19:14.510 --> 00:19:17.605 with our code and acknowledge mistakes. 00:19:17.605 --> 00:19:20.705 The difference between a mistake and a crime. 00:19:20.705 --> 00:19:23.180 The crime is willfully making 00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:26.670 that mistake and highly that mistake". 00:19:26.670 --> 00:19:29.400 You will hear that statement 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:30.950 throughout the military in 00:19:30.950 --> 00:19:32.690 different forms and different services. 00:19:32.690 --> 00:19:35.420 Like I said I've heard every time I move, 00:19:35.420 --> 00:19:37.280 every time I get a new commander, 00:19:37.280 --> 00:19:40.310 we have a discussion of mistakes versus crime. 00:19:40.310 --> 00:19:42.225 In fact, every morning, 00:19:42.225 --> 00:19:45.800 or really every shift right now there are three shifts 00:19:45.800 --> 00:19:49.384 of remotely piloted aircraft, pilots, 00:19:49.384 --> 00:19:52.040 sensor operators, and intelligence operatives 00:19:52.040 --> 00:19:55.390 who are in three shifts, 00:19:55.390 --> 00:19:57.460 12-hour shift rotating three-hour, 00:19:57.460 --> 00:20:01.520 12-hour shifts that are [NOISE]. 00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:04.010 Stand up, tell me about the rules of engagement. 00:20:04.010 --> 00:20:06.410 Somebody will stand up and talk about rules of 00:20:06.410 --> 00:20:08.990 engagement for a specific situation. 00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:11.030 Then they will talk about mistakes versus 00:20:11.030 --> 00:20:13.370 crime that's happening this moment. 00:20:13.370 --> 00:20:19.410 In every remote audit or graph-based, diminished. 00:20:19.750 --> 00:20:23.880 Murder is a crime. 00:20:24.150 --> 00:20:26.830 Webster Dictionary calls it 00:20:26.830 --> 00:20:29.380 a crime, intentionally killed somebody, 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:31.600 so in the article when you 00:20:31.600 --> 00:20:36.745 say murderer, and thus call me a murderer. 00:20:36.745 --> 00:20:42.145 The 3000 people that I commanded between 2007 and 2009, 00:20:42.145 --> 00:20:45.175 the President Bush and President Obama, 00:20:45.175 --> 00:20:47.770 the remotely piloted aircraft, 00:20:47.770 --> 00:20:50.350 I saw every strike. 00:20:50.350 --> 00:20:53.590 I did not approve strikes because that 00:20:53.590 --> 00:20:54.880 comes from a higher authority 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:56.545 and they follow the rules of the game. 00:20:56.545 --> 00:20:58.540 I certainly can't step in and 00:20:58.540 --> 00:21:01.765 stop a strike because it's not following the rules, 00:21:01.765 --> 00:21:04.405 but every single strike, 00:21:04.405 --> 00:21:08.530 I [inaudible] and these people follow the rules 00:21:08.530 --> 00:21:12.850 and so that's the state of the response. 00:21:12.850 --> 00:21:17.560 The second one is [inaudible] as General Mattis, 00:21:17.560 --> 00:21:20.890 who would be Central Command's commanding officer or 00:21:20.890 --> 00:21:24.805 the rapid enhancement said, fighting the happy part, 00:21:24.805 --> 00:21:27.220 and the reason he said this, and Madison, 00:21:27.220 --> 00:21:29.920 the legendary figure, just recently retired. 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:34.405 [inaudible] Madison said, "to fighting the happy part, 00:21:34.405 --> 00:21:39.720 primarily because we follow those rules to relieve 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:45.120 us of the responsibility of internalizing," right? 00:21:45.120 --> 00:21:47.175 You give us rules, the nation, 00:21:47.175 --> 00:21:49.710 people like you, the left, 00:21:49.710 --> 00:21:52.120 they gave us rules, we follow those rules. 00:21:52.120 --> 00:21:53.935 That means it's not a crime. 00:21:53.935 --> 00:21:56.664 They may be tragic, they may be a mistake, 00:21:56.664 --> 00:21:59.110 but these people stay within 00:21:59.110 --> 00:22:02.560 those rules because we all have demons. 00:22:02.560 --> 00:22:05.095 Following those rules gives us 00:22:05.095 --> 00:22:08.020 a little bit of insulation from harming those demons. 00:22:08.020 --> 00:22:09.700 He also said, "fight with 00:22:09.700 --> 00:22:12.430 a happy heart because we don't do this in anger. 00:22:12.430 --> 00:22:15.880 This isn't a sport, this isn't one of them," and 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:18.190 the Cambridge dictionary defines 00:22:18.190 --> 00:22:21.790 murder as malice of forethought, 00:22:21.790 --> 00:22:24.490 the crime and technical skills, 00:22:24.490 --> 00:22:28.090 so in the article, as you describe 00:22:28.090 --> 00:22:31.795 the local part of aircraft people as murderers, 00:22:31.795 --> 00:22:34.900 you flip two of our cornerstone box 00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:37.420 and then the article cannot be read by 00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:41.050 a military person with any seriousness 00:22:41.050 --> 00:22:43.540 and the article's two cities. 00:22:43.540 --> 00:22:47.155 There's one article, the article's complex, 00:22:47.155 --> 00:22:50.305 it is intricate, it is 00:22:50.305 --> 00:22:53.635 actually fun to read, it is difficult, 00:22:53.635 --> 00:22:56.065 it's hard, it's right in some areas, 00:22:56.065 --> 00:22:59.155 and then on the other side there is random, 00:22:59.155 --> 00:23:05.710 unseemingly connected paragraphs that resolve, 00:23:05.710 --> 00:23:07.525 so with all transparency, 00:23:07.525 --> 00:23:08.830 I cannot pronounce the 00:23:08.830 --> 00:23:10.300 article's [inaudible] in the world, 00:23:10.300 --> 00:23:11.530 it has some good points and [inaudible] , 00:23:11.530 --> 00:23:21.160 but we can't I can't flip our two cornerstones [inaudible] 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.110 Thanks, Colonel Hodges. We're going 00:23:23.110 --> 00:23:26.395 to start the Q&A session, 00:23:26.395 --> 00:23:28.690 and I'm going to ask one question to 00:23:28.690 --> 00:23:31.030 get this going and then I'll turn it over 00:23:31.030 --> 00:23:33.040 to you guys so you guys could be thinking about 00:23:33.040 --> 00:23:36.100 questions as we work through this next question here. 00:23:36.100 --> 00:23:38.875 I'll start with Dr. Salaita, 00:23:38.875 --> 00:23:43.210 and I get the sensory in your article that when you 00:23:43.210 --> 00:23:45.430 say the slogan support the troops is not 00:23:45.430 --> 00:23:48.535 actually supporting the troops. 00:23:48.535 --> 00:23:52.240 If I'm not trying to support the troops, 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:53.290 but you're actually not supporting 00:23:53.290 --> 00:23:54.835 the troops, I guess my question is, 00:23:54.835 --> 00:23:57.505 who and or what are you supporting 00:23:57.505 --> 00:23:59.680 by following along with 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.000 this notion of support the troops? 00:24:03.750 --> 00:24:06.955 I think it varies depending on the situation, 00:24:06.955 --> 00:24:09.200 depending on the context, 00:24:11.580 --> 00:24:15.685 and this is really a phrase that is surfacing now 00:24:15.685 --> 00:24:19.885 but that is probably better for another day. 00:24:19.885 --> 00:24:22.869 State power, work policy, 00:24:22.869 --> 00:24:24.820 whatever in the moment is considered to be 00:24:24.820 --> 00:24:26.740 a national interest and whatever in 00:24:26.740 --> 00:24:29.080 the moment it is considered to be of national interests, 00:24:29.080 --> 00:24:32.680 and also tends to be in the interests 00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:34.780 of the nation's elite and not the 00:24:34.780 --> 00:24:37.780 entire population of a nation. 00:24:37.780 --> 00:24:42.770 Okay. Anybody else on the panel want to respond to that? 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.280 Just me speaking personally, 00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:51.085 when I think supporting the troops, 00:24:51.085 --> 00:24:54.850 I don't think support state power. 00:24:54.850 --> 00:24:58.750 That may be what's going on, 00:24:58.750 --> 00:25:01.285 but I think very personal lives 00:25:01.285 --> 00:25:02.740 trying to support the soldiers who 00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:04.570 have actually gotten out, 00:25:04.570 --> 00:25:07.030 and there may be a distinction there 00:25:07.030 --> 00:25:10.390 because when you're talking about supporting state power, 00:25:10.390 --> 00:25:12.190 I think you might be talking about supporting people 00:25:12.190 --> 00:25:14.230 who are actively involved, 00:25:14.230 --> 00:25:16.300 whereas when I think of supporting the troops now, 00:25:16.300 --> 00:25:17.770 I think about supporting those who have 00:25:17.770 --> 00:25:20.050 already served and have gotten out 00:25:20.050 --> 00:25:21.840 and are trying to make a life for 00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:24.299 themselves outside of the military, 00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:25.590 so I'm not sure if 00:25:25.590 --> 00:25:29.175 other people get that same sense as well. 00:25:29.175 --> 00:25:31.920 Yeah, I don't necessarily see that connection. 00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.540 Yes, I see the same thing. I think, Steve, 00:25:34.540 --> 00:25:35.740 it's a little too obtuse for 00:25:35.740 --> 00:25:39.070 me to equate the state power with the, 00:25:39.070 --> 00:25:42.110 if you want to call it a slogan, 00:25:42.110 --> 00:25:45.045 support the troops, and I agree, it is overused, 00:25:45.045 --> 00:25:46.980 but I don't think it leads to 00:25:46.980 --> 00:25:50.280 the detriment of those of 00:25:50.280 --> 00:25:51.880 us who really do want to 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:53.875 hold these young men and women in our hearts, 00:25:53.875 --> 00:25:56.560 and whether or not we support the project or not, 00:25:56.560 --> 00:25:57.730 we're going to support them. 00:25:57.730 --> 00:26:00.010 We want them to receive not just 00:26:00.010 --> 00:26:02.950 [inaudible] and on active duty, 00:26:02.950 --> 00:26:07.660 the necessary support they need to do their jobs, 00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:14.395 but in particular, we want to support them when 00:26:14.395 --> 00:26:17.725 they're out and when we come home 00:26:17.725 --> 00:26:21.444 because that's where I think for me as a nation, 00:26:21.444 --> 00:26:27.080 America as a nation really, really falls short. 00:26:28.080 --> 00:26:31.165 Take a look at it from the Civil War 00:26:31.165 --> 00:26:33.520 up through every conflict. 00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:35.770 Even after World War II, 00:26:35.770 --> 00:26:39.595 when that wonderful celebration 00:26:39.595 --> 00:26:45.880 of victory and returning soldiers, 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:50.440 it didn't take long for problems, 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:52.120 the same kind of problems we're talking 00:26:52.120 --> 00:26:55.075 about today, to emerge, 00:26:55.075 --> 00:27:01.570 and I won't spend a whole lot of time on my homecoming 00:27:01.570 --> 00:27:03.010 from that war, it was quite different from my parents, 00:27:03.010 --> 00:27:09.115 but it's certainly a different context, 00:27:09.115 --> 00:27:14.840 but the idea of being supported. 00:27:16.860 --> 00:27:19.330 Whether or not America 00:27:19.330 --> 00:27:22.450 supported us while we were in Vietnam, 00:27:22.450 --> 00:27:26.020 it never once crossed my mind. 00:27:26.020 --> 00:27:28.960 We should be taking care of them, 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:33.160 and I don't recall any conversations or any grousing about... 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:39.340 [inaudible] all those hippies 00:27:39.340 --> 00:27:41.290 that are jumping up and down and 00:27:41.290 --> 00:27:43.825 protesting. Nonsense, 00:27:43.825 --> 00:27:46.600 the soldiers got too much to do, 00:27:46.600 --> 00:27:48.310 too much on his mind or 00:27:48.310 --> 00:27:53.215 her mind to worry about whether you guys, 00:27:53.215 --> 00:27:58.600 but after they come home, after they come home, 00:27:58.600 --> 00:28:04.940 that's when you can guarantee your support. 00:28:05.370 --> 00:28:08.290 I already knew that, 00:28:08.290 --> 00:28:13.690 but that is not how the phrase "support the troops" says, 00:28:13.690 --> 00:28:16.645 and overall, political discourse, certain things. 00:28:16.645 --> 00:28:21.130 It does not generally signal support when they come home, 00:28:21.130 --> 00:28:25.720 with adequate care, adequate attention, with empathy, 00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:30.730 it generally holds as a way of saying 00:28:30.730 --> 00:28:34.300 [BACKGROUND] there is a form 00:28:34.300 --> 00:28:37.690 of patriotism to which you should include it here, 00:28:37.690 --> 00:28:44.785 and that brand of patriotism usually precludes the type 00:28:44.785 --> 00:28:49.465 of critique that would put somebody 00:28:49.465 --> 00:28:54.700 outside of the accepted context of discourse. 00:28:54.700 --> 00:28:59.800 Yes, I feel like [NOISE] at basic human level, 00:28:59.800 --> 00:29:01.960 if you're a human being with empathy, of course, 00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:07.135 you should care for the folks who come home, 00:29:07.135 --> 00:29:08.680 and you should support policies 00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:10.150 that are actually to their benefit. 00:29:10.150 --> 00:29:16.065 But I don't see enough evidence at the level of, 00:29:16.065 --> 00:29:17.280 say, first of all, 00:29:17.280 --> 00:29:21.640 that that kind of care is being provided to the troops. 00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:27.260 Second of all, I see that all the time in the way 00:29:27.260 --> 00:29:29.590 that when somebody offers 00:29:29.590 --> 00:29:32.814 a critique of a particular court policy, 00:29:32.814 --> 00:29:34.780 the way that folks tend 00:29:34.780 --> 00:29:37.630 to screech about how those things aren't patriotic, 00:29:37.630 --> 00:29:38.905 about how he's not American, 00:29:38.905 --> 00:29:41.785 about how he needs to leave the country, etc., etc. 00:29:41.785 --> 00:29:47.455 Those attitudes are extremely restrictive 00:29:47.455 --> 00:29:50.050 of the type of speech one can engage in 00:29:50.050 --> 00:29:53.335 around the issue of state power reform policy. 00:29:53.335 --> 00:29:55.090 It's tied [NOISE] [inaudible] 00:29:55.090 --> 00:29:57.410 into this particular slogan. 00:29:57.630 --> 00:30:05.350 I agree and disagree that that discussion of supporting 00:30:05.350 --> 00:30:07.645 the troops tends to mean 00:30:07.645 --> 00:30:12.925 support the policy with which we are pursuing them, 00:30:12.925 --> 00:30:15.220 so there isn't a rift 00:30:15.220 --> 00:30:18.835 between the country as it occurred in Vietnam. 00:30:18.835 --> 00:30:23.220 There's also an attempt here to keep the troops from 00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:25.860 paying for policies with 00:30:25.860 --> 00:30:28.880 which they aren't responsible for. 00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:31.330 There is a little bit of that, 00:30:31.330 --> 00:30:33.445 but I think what we're trying to do, 00:30:33.445 --> 00:30:34.870 and at least what we're trying to do 00:30:34.870 --> 00:30:36.310 with the article is move it away 00:30:36.310 --> 00:30:39.190 from the skepticism that you have, 00:30:39.190 --> 00:30:41.305 and I mean that in a positive way. 00:30:41.305 --> 00:30:47.005 We talk about this skepticism in a positive way toward 00:30:47.005 --> 00:30:49.809 a more grassroots support plus 00:30:49.809 --> 00:30:56.350 a more formal Cadillac policy. 00:30:56.350 --> 00:30:59.110 You're taking care of the troops at home where they live, 00:30:59.110 --> 00:31:01.360 a concierge service, if you would, 00:31:01.360 --> 00:31:02.845 to make sure the troops really 00:31:02.845 --> 00:31:04.690 are supported when they return 00:31:04.690 --> 00:31:09.970 from both as a supply for the war, 00:31:09.970 --> 00:31:12.100 so they have the equipment to execute the war, 00:31:12.100 --> 00:31:15.080 and then they come home for services. 00:31:15.390 --> 00:31:20.170 In some way, it may be connected to patriotism, 00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:23.470 but I tend to look for the more of 00:31:23.470 --> 00:31:27.340 the emotional support when we use that phrase. 00:31:27.340 --> 00:31:31.190 Hey, Gil, just got some questions out here. 00:31:31.290 --> 00:31:37.030 Thank you. I think that's not working here with 00:31:37.030 --> 00:31:42.400 [inaudible] was enough for 00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:44.275 somebody that says "for the troops." 00:31:44.275 --> 00:31:47.890 I've never met anyone like that, but sometimes, 00:31:47.890 --> 00:31:50.560 I sense that the argument was addressed in that it was 00:31:50.560 --> 00:31:54.099 a very narrow criticism 00:31:54.099 --> 00:31:57.850 that we all see there's an easy solution. 00:31:57.850 --> 00:32:00.100 Not too easy for the guy in [inaudible] , 00:32:00.100 --> 00:32:26.710 I agree, but [inaudible] 00:32:26.710 --> 00:32:29.160 But I also think that the argument is 00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:32.105 not what we should all see as supporting the troops. 00:32:32.105 --> 00:32:36.410 As someone who does work in there, at times, 00:32:36.410 --> 00:32:39.160 when there was this identification with 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:40.870 the government about supporting 00:32:40.870 --> 00:32:42.760 the troops by the governments, 00:32:42.760 --> 00:32:45.550 I think this January, at least, 00:32:45.550 --> 00:32:53.260 was very different for me, and in my observation, 00:32:53.260 --> 00:32:57.310 the situation, in that, supporting is troops is almost 00:32:57.310 --> 00:32:59.590 permanently the troops, and [inaudible]. 00:32:59.590 --> 00:33:05.770 If you watch all of 00:33:05.770 --> 00:33:11.890 the lower middle class or lower class parents economically who have never 00:33:11.890 --> 00:33:15.100 voted walk in and vote for Obama and they are 00:33:15.100 --> 00:33:18.820 supporting the children when the law itself is saying, 00:33:18.820 --> 00:33:21.820 " [inaudible] program because 00:33:21.820 --> 00:33:23.500 this is how we support the troops." 00:33:23.500 --> 00:33:36.130 [inaudible] 00:33:36.130 --> 00:33:38.500 When I read into your article and I see some of 00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:42.670 these generalizations about what people think of us, 00:33:42.670 --> 00:33:45.940 about the troops, I think we're underselling. 00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:51.159 But what I say is [inaudible] Absolutely, 00:33:51.159 --> 00:33:54.130 there is a certain group of people will wave the flag 00:33:54.130 --> 00:33:57.250 [inaudible] That is all for them. 00:33:57.250 --> 00:34:03.910 [NOISE] What I've done, I've seen the slogan and 00:34:03.910 --> 00:34:07.780 then the argument [inaudible] On the one hand, 00:34:07.780 --> 00:34:08.860 you're talking about the troops, 00:34:08.860 --> 00:34:11.620 and then in the next, you did mention it and say, 00:34:11.620 --> 00:34:14.650 "Are we speaking about all of them," or they say, 00:34:14.650 --> 00:34:18.505 "This one is a murderer, that one is not. 00:34:18.505 --> 00:34:23.440 This one is [inaudible]." 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:26.260 The logic starts to fall as we 00:34:26.260 --> 00:34:30.200 move on because I think you'll never force change. 00:34:30.390 --> 00:34:37.390 I'd love for you to address that, but I am on 00:34:37.390 --> 00:34:40.465 the accusation against individuals 00:34:40.465 --> 00:34:49.990 who run into troops into individual war criminals... 00:34:49.990 --> 00:34:51.535 I'd like to just add something. 00:34:51.535 --> 00:34:52.930 Yeah, please. 00:34:52.930 --> 00:34:56.605 I think that given that paragraph you're referencing, 00:34:56.605 --> 00:34:58.960 I'm asking a set of 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:04.450 perfectly legitimate but important moral questions. 00:35:04.450 --> 00:35:06.220 I think, anybody, it's true, 00:35:06.220 --> 00:35:08.200 no matter what the politics are, 00:35:08.200 --> 00:35:13.210 would argue that American soldiers 00:35:13.210 --> 00:35:15.280 at different points in history have been 00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:17.800 implicated in war crimes, yes? 00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:18.685 Sure. 00:35:18.685 --> 00:35:22.750 Okay. What does "support the troops" descent to? 00:35:22.750 --> 00:35:24.160 It's a blank statement. 00:35:24.160 --> 00:35:27.370 But I'm asking, the soldier who missed their case, 00:35:27.370 --> 00:35:29.095 the soldier who breaks orders, 00:35:29.095 --> 00:35:31.750 the soldier who does something that he's 00:35:31.750 --> 00:35:34.720 not supposed to do that causes harm to other people, 00:35:34.720 --> 00:35:36.205 who's supposed to support them? 00:35:36.205 --> 00:35:38.935 Are we supposed to support black [inaudible] mercenaries? 00:35:38.935 --> 00:35:40.300 Are they part of the troops, 00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:41.815 or are they are not part of the troops? 00:35:41.815 --> 00:35:43.570 It's a blanket statement. I say we need to 00:35:43.570 --> 00:35:45.490 suss out the nuance here. 00:35:45.490 --> 00:35:47.020 When we are saying support the troops, 00:35:47.020 --> 00:35:49.435 [NOISE] which troops exactly are we supporting? 00:35:49.435 --> 00:35:50.890 The ones who are doing good, 00:35:50.890 --> 00:35:53.050 those who are following orders, those who have empathy, 00:35:53.050 --> 00:35:55.825 or are we supposed to support them no matter what? 00:35:55.825 --> 00:35:57.775 Is there a limit to the support, 00:35:57.775 --> 00:36:02.230 even according to the underlying 00:36:02.230 --> 00:36:04.060 discourses of the slogan? 00:36:04.060 --> 00:36:08.290 I think that the slogan, again, is institutional. 00:36:08.290 --> 00:36:11.080 When you study this course, 00:36:11.080 --> 00:36:13.180 you don't do it in such a way as 00:36:13.180 --> 00:36:15.834 to take individual examples 00:36:15.834 --> 00:36:20.155 as undermining the discourse 00:36:20.155 --> 00:36:22.075 functioning at the institutional level, 00:36:22.075 --> 00:36:26.785 what you do is, you look at the way that the discourse 00:36:26.785 --> 00:36:28.900 achieves a certain power and 00:36:28.900 --> 00:36:32.455 a certain status and a certain discursive currency. 00:36:32.455 --> 00:36:36.310 In this case, I feel like a simple troop achieves 00:36:36.310 --> 00:36:40.885 a certain currency at the level of patriotism. 00:36:40.885 --> 00:36:43.660 Steve I think that's way too broad a brush [inaudible] 00:36:43.660 --> 00:36:49.180 The military itself 00:36:49.180 --> 00:36:58.045 with all its faults, has a well-established criminal justice system. 00:36:58.045 --> 00:36:59.650 We break the law, 00:36:59.650 --> 00:37:05.320 [inaudible] [OVERLAPPING] Oh, no, 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.110 not all the troops, but just lots of them. 00:37:08.110 --> 00:37:09.640 If you take a look at 00:37:09.640 --> 00:37:16.075 the brain stem and the [inaudible] of a criminal, 00:37:16.075 --> 00:37:20.950 they're still with the soldiers who have done wrong, 00:37:20.950 --> 00:37:24.040 and have been held accountable for it. 00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:26.500 No one's arguing against the atrocities, 00:37:26.500 --> 00:37:30.610 and frankly, during the Vietnam era, 00:37:30.610 --> 00:37:32.890 there was a routine pattern of 00:37:32.890 --> 00:37:36.850 covering up things like that. 00:37:36.850 --> 00:37:40.900 I think the colonel here's a good example, 00:37:40.900 --> 00:37:42.190 based on some of the arguments made. It argues 00:37:42.190 --> 00:37:47.200 the military are moral constructs. 00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:50.200 They have to be, by nature. 00:37:50.200 --> 00:37:52.285 The difference between a criminal 00:37:52.285 --> 00:37:56.680 and a warden can be a very fine line sometimes, 00:37:56.680 --> 00:37:58.885 and in what separates that, 00:37:58.885 --> 00:38:03.060 and that is the underlying moral assumptions and 00:38:03.060 --> 00:38:09.160 the principles that guide the action. 00:38:09.560 --> 00:38:15.220 To start to identify various illegal acts, 00:38:15.220 --> 00:38:25.930 even within the context of war is representative of, 00:38:25.930 --> 00:38:28.720 I really think it gets us 00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:31.780 way off into a different direction. 00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:35.160 [inaudible] 00:38:35.160 --> 00:38:36.610 Here you go. 00:38:37.490 --> 00:38:40.350 I guess first, I would like to reply to 00:38:40.350 --> 00:38:42.930 the statement that he 00:38:42.930 --> 00:38:44.970 said that not all of these are people in 00:38:44.970 --> 00:38:46.310 the military who commit crimes 00:38:46.310 --> 00:38:48.480 for the purposes of justice. 00:38:48.670 --> 00:38:51.990 But there are people that appreciate 00:38:51.990 --> 00:38:56.730 the colonel's distinction between states and crimes. 00:38:56.730 --> 00:38:58.500 There are people who do commit 00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:01.860 crimes in military base [inaudible]. 00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:04.230 I grew up in the military, I served in the military, 00:39:04.230 --> 00:39:06.000 under General Mattis for a while. 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:07.500 I think you mentioned, I heard you 00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:09.970 talking about this. I think it was. 00:39:11.810 --> 00:39:16.890 The question I was also known as [inaudible] behavior. 00:39:16.890 --> 00:39:21.600 We have statements that are being referred to, 00:39:21.600 --> 00:39:25.215 such as critical ones that are listed in principle, you, 00:39:25.215 --> 00:39:27.510 many of us are not followed by 00:39:27.510 --> 00:39:30.015 any professors and also the professor doesn't as 00:39:30.015 --> 00:39:36.360 well [inaudible] So my question 00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:39.885 is that if I do take offense, 00:39:39.885 --> 00:39:41.280 especially when [inaudible] I 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:49.320 think it has been quite specifically put out there. 00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:53.220 But the question is, I didn't question actually and 00:39:53.220 --> 00:39:55.680 attend an choice of what you 00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:57.300 made to choose the fan and 00:39:57.300 --> 00:39:59.850 the cash register that says support the troops. 00:39:59.850 --> 00:40:01.500 Because certainly, I've heard 00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:08.700 [inaudible] that certainly involve offerings of 00:40:08.700 --> 00:40:10.440 many stories that said that what we've 00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:17.940 seen cans that support all kinds of other things, Sustainability Project, 00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:21.450 a little league, SPCA, Girl Scouts, 00:40:21.450 --> 00:40:30.630 Blacksburg high school [NOISE] [inaudible] But easy, 00:40:30.630 --> 00:40:35.160 but why people love and cookies for a film anyway. 00:40:35.160 --> 00:40:38.850 There's all types of ideologies and we have 00:40:38.850 --> 00:40:41.580 a theoretical academic discussion on 00:40:41.580 --> 00:40:43.530 how you can connect all these things, 00:40:43.530 --> 00:40:46.740 the ideologies that come up with the reasons why. 00:40:46.740 --> 00:40:49.575 But everyone halfway right now is 00:40:49.575 --> 00:40:52.815 working hard for America to pay their taxes, 00:40:52.815 --> 00:40:56.640 to contribute to our university that pay my salary. 00:40:56.640 --> 00:40:59.700 They're working hard and they know when they see 00:40:59.700 --> 00:41:01.680 the statement support troops by 00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:03.930 some people who live in their community, 00:41:03.930 --> 00:41:05.070 that's not going on to 00:41:05.070 --> 00:41:07.635 the United States of America or the US army, 00:41:07.635 --> 00:41:13.860 it's going to the, you know, Floyd chapter of whatever. 00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:19.920 Then they're going to be [inaudible]. 00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:24.010 My question is, why did you choose that campaign? 00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:31.440 I'm going to try to keep my answer brief, 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:33.420 but I'm also going to have to 00:41:33.420 --> 00:41:35.550 be frank about a few things. 00:41:35.550 --> 00:41:39.060 One of which is this is starting to nag at me in 00:41:39.060 --> 00:41:43.690 a pretty intense way. 00:41:46.040 --> 00:41:49.845 You can unravel that ideology of anything. 00:41:49.845 --> 00:41:51.600 You have the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, 00:41:51.600 --> 00:41:53.895 all of that is true. Any sort of camp. 00:41:53.895 --> 00:41:58.440 There's Somebody who does in part cultural studies, 00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:00.510 I do all the time, we do that all the time, 00:42:00.510 --> 00:42:02.430 I do that in my class, I do that with my students. 00:42:02.430 --> 00:42:03.300 I say, let's take something 00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:05.865 mundane and see if we cannot measure it. 00:42:05.865 --> 00:42:08.805 But support the troops, 00:42:08.805 --> 00:42:12.615 as a category of ties into patriotism and foreign policy, 00:42:12.615 --> 00:42:16.530 I had a serious effects in terms of how we pay taxes, 00:42:16.530 --> 00:42:17.745 in terms of how we vote, 00:42:17.745 --> 00:42:19.920 in terms of how our tax dollars are used, 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.930 in terms of how our military is deployed, 00:42:21.930 --> 00:42:24.870 in terms of how our politicians behave. 00:42:24.870 --> 00:42:26.280 We're more invested in 00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:30.120 more serious ways than that, it's a serious issue. 00:42:30.120 --> 00:42:32.490 Number two, and in this, 00:42:32.490 --> 00:42:34.800 I have to say I'm sorry. 00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:36.540 I really feel like 00:42:36.540 --> 00:42:39.150 the article could be written more closely, 00:42:39.150 --> 00:42:41.130 the paragraph in question. 00:42:41.130 --> 00:42:43.305 I will not use the word murderer, 00:42:43.305 --> 00:42:45.750 I say those who murder, 00:42:45.750 --> 00:42:47.520 are they worse than before? 00:42:47.520 --> 00:42:49.440 All right. That's the first thing 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.600 I understand that there's another context. 00:42:51.600 --> 00:42:55.005 It's a serious, legitimate, ernest, 00:42:55.005 --> 00:42:58.890 moral question along the way and offers support in. 00:42:58.890 --> 00:43:02.415 What support are all quite must've begun. 00:43:02.415 --> 00:43:05.190 I understand the gentleman's point, 00:43:05.190 --> 00:43:07.485 I understand the colonel's point about 00:43:07.485 --> 00:43:12.090 what mistakes versus crime. 00:43:12.090 --> 00:43:17.685 All right. But I have to strenuously object to 00:43:17.685 --> 00:43:20.850 the conceptualization of children 00:43:20.850 --> 00:43:23.445 getting killed at wedding parties as a mistake. 00:43:23.445 --> 00:43:25.275 I have to strenuously object. 00:43:25.275 --> 00:43:28.290 I object to that just as strongly as 00:43:28.290 --> 00:43:32.235 my colleague objects to the use of the word birth. 00:43:32.235 --> 00:43:36.990 To me that is an extremely problematic way to describe 00:43:36.990 --> 00:43:39.210 people are on the receiving end of 00:43:39.210 --> 00:43:41.775 things almost as bad as the term collateral damage. 00:43:41.775 --> 00:43:43.935 Again, because if we're going to be, 00:43:43.935 --> 00:43:45.855 we're not down up in this, 00:43:45.855 --> 00:43:47.730 we're not ignoring this in any way 00:43:47.730 --> 00:43:49.935 and they're thinking that the severe price. 00:43:49.935 --> 00:43:51.660 Also these action are 00:43:51.660 --> 00:43:54.150 taking place not in the United States, 00:43:54.150 --> 00:43:55.825 but they're taking place in other countries that 00:43:55.825 --> 00:43:59.235 are affecting the people of those countries. 00:43:59.235 --> 00:44:02.730 There is more than another side to form 00:44:02.730 --> 00:44:07.050 a policy to the actions 00:44:07.050 --> 00:44:09.465 of those who make military decisions. 00:44:09.465 --> 00:44:11.610 It affects the populations of 00:44:11.610 --> 00:44:14.565 people in the countries that will engage with an enter. 00:44:14.565 --> 00:44:18.400 The corresponding moral question I would ask is, 00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:22.170 yes, we follow work and the people who are 00:44:22.170 --> 00:44:23.220 making the decisions are 00:44:23.220 --> 00:44:25.410 ones who are to be condemned by my belief. 00:44:25.410 --> 00:44:29.340 Is it their based 00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:33.195 on the amount of wedding parties have been hit, 00:44:33.195 --> 00:44:36.795 based on the amount of children who have been killed. 00:44:36.795 --> 00:44:40.395 There's substantial documentation for all of this. 00:44:40.395 --> 00:44:45.060 Is it a reasonable assumption to say that when 00:44:45.060 --> 00:44:47.145 that demand is made to carry out 00:44:47.145 --> 00:44:50.445 that action that civilians are going to be killed? 00:44:50.445 --> 00:44:52.710 Why can't we think about it in 00:44:52.710 --> 00:44:55.425 terms of that type of war paradigm. 00:44:55.425 --> 00:44:59.460 If you know that an action, a certain action has 00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:02.955 a at least reasonable chance of killing civilians, 00:45:02.955 --> 00:45:04.620 should you take that into account 00:45:04.620 --> 00:45:06.750 when [inaudible] and making borders. 00:45:06.750 --> 00:45:08.010 Again, I'm not going to get 00:45:08.010 --> 00:45:10.050 the people who carry out their missions. 00:45:10.050 --> 00:45:12.975 People who make the decision and ask do I feel 00:45:12.975 --> 00:45:17.230 important in adopting decisions. 00:45:17.870 --> 00:45:19.770 Let me address a couple 00:45:19.770 --> 00:45:20.580 of [inaudible] because [inaudible]. 00:45:20.580 --> 00:45:26.520 I do want to put a couple of things in context. 00:45:26.520 --> 00:45:29.490 Who do we support if somebody 00:45:29.490 --> 00:45:33.585 is a bad conduct discharge or has been determined by 00:45:33.585 --> 00:45:35.370 the Uniform Code of Military Justice 00:45:35.370 --> 00:45:38.040 to not follow orders. 00:45:38.040 --> 00:45:42.450 The mistake was either too large a mistake or a crime, 00:45:42.450 --> 00:45:45.150 then they get discharged with bad conduct, 00:45:45.150 --> 00:45:48.495 for example, start bad conduct and discharge. 00:45:48.495 --> 00:45:51.480 That person no longer qualifies the event, 00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:55.740 no longer qualifies to [inaudible]. 00:45:55.740 --> 00:45:58.380 But the state doesn't support him 00:45:58.380 --> 00:45:59.655 anymore and I think 00:45:59.655 --> 00:46:02.860 although Americans are very forgiving, 00:46:03.650 --> 00:46:08.370 employers are not, and a bad conduct discharge does okay, 00:46:08.370 --> 00:46:10.980 That person falls outside what we 00:46:10.980 --> 00:46:13.635 would say in supporting the troops. 00:46:13.635 --> 00:46:16.170 He falls out of that character. 00:46:16.170 --> 00:46:18.000 There is a mechanism in place. 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:19.500 Now again, it's not perfect. 00:46:19.500 --> 00:46:22.380 We make mistakes, we are prosecuting should, 00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:23.775 there's a whole series of things. 00:46:23.775 --> 00:46:26.130 But in general, The Uniform Code Of Military Justice 00:46:26.130 --> 00:46:28.440 is there for that purpose. 00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:39.420 Now, the last point there, the civilians do make 00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:42.345 the rules and I try to put it this way. 00:46:42.345 --> 00:46:45.870 If you must say somebody here had lost 00:46:45.870 --> 00:46:50.430 a loved one on 9-11 and you 00:46:50.430 --> 00:46:58.260 have an opportunity to exterminate Osama bin Laden. 00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:00.510 What if a child was executed? 00:47:00.510 --> 00:47:03.210 One child? Would you take 00:47:03.210 --> 00:47:07.030 the shot knowing that the child wouldn't kill? 00:47:07.790 --> 00:47:13.020 Two children? 35 children? 00:47:13.020 --> 00:47:17.325 That was a joke. What is your number? 00:47:17.325 --> 00:47:21.135 Now again that children were back there and lets say, 00:47:21.135 --> 00:47:23.280 somebody, we don't know. 00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.080 We don't know if this individual 00:47:25.080 --> 00:47:26.520 is sitting or standing next to 00:47:26.520 --> 00:47:30.135 a solid the bottom is a military person or not. 00:47:30.135 --> 00:47:32.340 But let's just say they are dangerous. 00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:36.015 How many would you give to get Osama Bin Laden? 00:47:36.015 --> 00:47:39.120 Well, guess what? There are decisions behind it, 00:47:39.120 --> 00:47:42.480 and they are given to us. 00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:46.755 This is the number and that's not quite back warm. 00:47:46.755 --> 00:47:51.675 But women sitting at the console make that decision. 00:47:51.675 --> 00:47:53.565 By ourselves, absolutely not, 00:47:53.565 --> 00:47:55.440 with a ground commander, absolutely. 00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:57.120 Was somebody else watching the video? 00:47:57.120 --> 00:47:59.310 Absolutely. There's a lot of people, 00:47:59.310 --> 00:48:01.875 specifically remotely piloted aircraft, 00:48:01.875 --> 00:48:04.290 are in there watching that video, 00:48:04.290 --> 00:48:06.660 but I can guarantee you that 00:48:06.660 --> 00:48:09.270 every situation can't be role-play. 00:48:09.270 --> 00:48:12.240 But there is, for lack of a better word, 00:48:12.240 --> 00:48:15.780 a number that this person is worth and I 00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:19.680 guarantee you one female next to Osama Bin Laden, 00:48:19.680 --> 00:48:22.560 who we don't know what we absolutely know that is 00:48:22.560 --> 00:48:27.060 Osama Bin Laden, I will kill him. 00:48:27.060 --> 00:48:30.915 In that process, I would take a life. 00:48:30.915 --> 00:48:33.210 The only thing I have 00:48:33.210 --> 00:48:38.670 to fall back on in taking that is that was 00:48:38.670 --> 00:48:41.985 the rules and I'm not going to break the rules 00:48:41.985 --> 00:48:46.905 but those are the rules and I'm going to take that shot. 00:48:46.905 --> 00:48:49.560 Those are the things 00:48:49.560 --> 00:48:52.040 that are introduced chapter tried to point 00:48:52.040 --> 00:48:54.860 out in our own community about when you make 00:48:54.860 --> 00:48:57.910 this decision and this was before we went to war. 00:48:57.910 --> 00:49:01.410 When you do make a decision to go to war, 00:49:01.410 --> 00:49:04.965 these are the kinds of things that you have to consider. 00:49:04.965 --> 00:49:07.200 But the majority of casualties in 00:49:07.200 --> 00:49:11.980 modern warfare are likely to be non-combatants. 00:49:13.790 --> 00:49:22.485 If you supported the law and the necessity to do it, 00:49:22.485 --> 00:49:26.155 then you are in fact, 00:49:26.155 --> 00:49:31.525 agreeing to the tactics and 00:49:31.525 --> 00:49:38.160 means by which that modern war is going to be waged. 00:49:38.160 --> 00:49:40.980 Okay, I think we've got one more question in the back. 00:49:40.980 --> 00:49:43.080 Two more questions. 00:49:43.080 --> 00:49:45.780 [NOISE] 00:49:45.780 --> 00:49:56.250 [inaudible] 00:49:56.250 --> 00:49:59.820 feel like maybe a lot of keys up there or somebody who's, 00:49:59.820 --> 00:50:02.415 I just want to say that I really do 00:50:02.415 --> 00:50:04.500 support and believe some 00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:06.595 of the ideas that you're trying to say. 00:50:06.595 --> 00:50:10.295 That's coming from a Marine vet. 00:50:10.295 --> 00:50:15.235 I think that we spun out of control with this whole, 00:50:15.235 --> 00:50:16.980 what does it mean to support 00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:19.605 the troops versus this whole, 00:50:19.605 --> 00:50:24.970 ethics of war, [inaudible] command, discussion. 00:50:24.970 --> 00:50:29.405 I can go into that and I can just do that afterwards. 00:50:29.405 --> 00:50:32.600 But I think what it comes down to is how does 00:50:32.600 --> 00:50:36.450 the person feel when they hear or see someone say, 00:50:36.450 --> 00:50:39.450 I support the troops? This is what I hear. 00:50:39.450 --> 00:50:40.935 When I hear someone say, 00:50:40.935 --> 00:50:46.065 I support the troops, I think, really? 00:50:46.065 --> 00:50:54.210 How? In what ways are you supporting the troops? 00:50:54.210 --> 00:50:55.410 [inaudible] I think it is, 00:50:55.410 --> 00:50:57.045 for the most part, it's unlikely today. 00:50:57.045 --> 00:50:58.980 It may be easy for 00:50:58.980 --> 00:51:01.740 you guys as professionals, who are invested in 00:51:01.740 --> 00:51:05.750 that kind of advocacy not to see it maybe as 00:51:05.750 --> 00:51:09.975 much as someone who's more on the floor and not all that. 00:51:09.975 --> 00:51:11.685 But I saw it all the time. 00:51:11.685 --> 00:51:15.615 I see people, especially college students, 00:51:15.615 --> 00:51:18.015 they don't know what they're saying. 00:51:18.015 --> 00:51:19.830 They just think, if I say 00:51:19.830 --> 00:51:23.070 this then I can feel good about myself. 00:51:23.070 --> 00:51:26.020 I can feel like I'm doing something. 00:51:27.140 --> 00:51:29.310 I think of other things. 00:51:29.310 --> 00:51:31.590 I think of Walmart saying, 00:51:31.590 --> 00:51:35.760 we hire veterans and I think, no. 00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:38.550 I think you hire people and some of them happen to be 00:51:38.550 --> 00:51:42.380 veterans and it allows you to say, we hire veterans. 00:51:42.380 --> 00:51:44.580 But now I fought in a war and I'm like, "Hey, 00:51:44.580 --> 00:51:45.495 I'm a veteran" and they're like, 00:51:45.495 --> 00:51:47.085 "No, we're not going to hire you." 00:51:47.085 --> 00:51:50.220 I'm like, but you said you hire veterans. 00:51:50.220 --> 00:51:52.590 Suddenly it doesn't affect you. 00:51:52.590 --> 00:51:57.270 And I think of other situations where, America is. 00:51:57.270 --> 00:51:59.910 The problem with America is we're very 00:51:59.910 --> 00:52:03.570 sensationalistic and I think our generation, 00:52:03.570 --> 00:52:05.040 my generation, doesn't have 00:52:05.040 --> 00:52:07.380 the concept of consequentialism. 00:52:07.380 --> 00:52:10.275 What I mean by that is, 00:52:10.275 --> 00:52:14.860 I think we're very easy to be guilted into something. 00:52:15.050 --> 00:52:19.050 I'm sure you've seen those commercials where that old man 00:52:19.050 --> 00:52:22.785 is involved with puppies and they're like no, 00:52:22.785 --> 00:52:24.780 so and so puppy or 00:52:24.780 --> 00:52:27.360 some starved child in Africa or something like that. 00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:30.570 So if you send ten cents a day, 00:52:30.570 --> 00:52:32.625 or whatever, you can save this child. 00:52:32.625 --> 00:52:34.260 And for like 10 seconds you feel really, 00:52:34.260 --> 00:52:36.030 really bad and you're like, oh man, 00:52:36.030 --> 00:52:37.575 I should do something. 00:52:37.575 --> 00:52:40.500 But then you don't. I did. 00:52:40.500 --> 00:52:42.390 I remember at the time, for ten seconds I was going to 00:52:42.390 --> 00:52:44.715 save every single dog. 00:52:44.715 --> 00:52:46.470 I'm going to save all these children. 00:52:46.470 --> 00:52:53.760 [inaudible] or something like that, 00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:57.810 [inaudible] and that's how I feel. 00:52:57.810 --> 00:53:01.245 Like there's someone saying, I support the troops. 00:53:01.245 --> 00:53:03.390 I'm not talking about those who 00:53:03.390 --> 00:53:05.310 genuinely support the troops. 00:53:05.310 --> 00:53:06.480 Because if you do support 00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:09.045 the troops and you're doing something about it, 00:53:09.045 --> 00:53:10.830 I'm going to know it, I'm going to see 00:53:10.830 --> 00:53:12.570 it and I'm not going 00:53:12.570 --> 00:53:14.715 to have anything negative to say about it. 00:53:14.715 --> 00:53:17.325 But, I see these people, 00:53:17.325 --> 00:53:19.305 I'm listening to this conversation, 00:53:19.305 --> 00:53:22.650 and here's a man 00:53:22.650 --> 00:53:25.440 saying something that I think is very truthful. 00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:33.375 [inaudible] I think it's okay. 00:53:33.375 --> 00:53:35.940 If you don't support the troops, 00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:37.860 there's nothing wrong with that. 00:53:37.860 --> 00:53:41.205 It's America, you're free to not support the troops. 00:53:41.205 --> 00:53:43.830 If you don't believe in what we do, don't support it. 00:53:43.830 --> 00:53:47.175 If you believe in what they're doing, support them. 00:53:47.175 --> 00:53:51.570 Something about, oh but do we support all troops, 00:53:51.570 --> 00:53:54.150 or do we support some troops? 00:53:54.150 --> 00:53:57.030 I think we're broad brushing the sheet too much. 00:53:57.030 --> 00:54:00.945 And you should be focusing on the smaller communities. 00:54:00.945 --> 00:54:03.930 like when I say, I support the troops, 00:54:03.930 --> 00:54:06.945 I've got [inaudible] when I say, I support the troops, 00:54:06.945 --> 00:54:08.820 I mean I support the Marines 00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:09.360 more than I support the Air Force or Army. 00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:15.020 [LAUGHTER] 00:54:15.020 --> 00:54:16.021 There's a hierarchy. 00:54:17.750 --> 00:54:21.780 I really do support the people. 00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:25.725 I have to say I didn't really support the war. 00:54:25.725 --> 00:54:28.020 And when I joined the Marines, 00:54:28.020 --> 00:54:31.015 I knew that I was going into wartime. 00:54:31.015 --> 00:54:32.570 Not supporting the war, 00:54:32.570 --> 00:54:35.890 but why I joined is I wanted to support the troops. 00:54:35.890 --> 00:54:38.520 And the [inaudible] was 00:54:38.520 --> 00:54:41.100 Mortuary Affairs and I believed in 00:54:41.100 --> 00:54:43.730 Mortuary Affairs because I wanted to make 00:54:43.730 --> 00:54:45.350 sure that the troops who 00:54:45.350 --> 00:54:47.915 gave their lives, could come home. 00:54:47.915 --> 00:54:50.270 That's how I chose to support the troops. 00:54:50.270 --> 00:54:52.280 I agree with you on a couple of things, 00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:54.050 but I got to tell you this. 00:54:54.050 --> 00:54:55.720 We are in the wake of what 00:54:55.720 --> 00:54:57.320 you call instant sensationalism. 00:54:57.320 --> 00:54:58.970 We're into branding. 00:54:58.970 --> 00:55:01.115 Virginia Tech, the brand of the future. 00:55:01.115 --> 00:55:04.025 We have to get your communications story. 00:55:04.025 --> 00:55:05.900 Support the troops never 00:55:05.900 --> 00:55:07.430 came from the Department of Defense, 00:55:07.430 --> 00:55:08.730 I don't know where it came from, 00:55:08.730 --> 00:55:11.715 but it was a brand and a slogan that was sent out there. 00:55:11.715 --> 00:55:16.350 But I think, if I had to walk myself back to Vietnam, 00:55:16.350 --> 00:55:20.640 the phrase that I would rather use, 00:55:20.640 --> 00:55:22.590 I don't support the war so I 00:55:22.590 --> 00:55:23.940 don't support the troops and that gets 00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:27.030 back to the heart of what Steve was talking about. 00:55:27.030 --> 00:55:29.610 In that comment, I think what we hope, 00:55:29.610 --> 00:55:31.560 Support the Troops means, 00:55:31.560 --> 00:55:36.010 in that context is, I don't support the war. 00:55:36.260 --> 00:55:41.730 Don't punish the troops. [APPLAUSE] 00:55:41.730 --> 00:55:42.900 That's what we're afraid. 00:55:42.900 --> 00:55:46.515 That's the dependence that Vietnam gave to us. 00:55:46.515 --> 00:55:50.025 Honestly, I'm a beneficiary of that. 00:55:50.025 --> 00:55:52.740 So we can't come up with 00:55:52.740 --> 00:55:54.000 a slogan meaning if you 00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:55.260 don't like the war, which is great, 00:55:55.260 --> 00:55:57.270 wonderful protests again it, 00:55:57.270 --> 00:56:00.030 vote for everyone, but don't punish the troops, 00:56:00.030 --> 00:56:01.710 but that doesn't sell. 00:56:01.710 --> 00:56:05.640 Not sell stuff, not corporate stuff, 00:56:05.640 --> 00:56:08.970 but just it doesn't inspire people. 00:56:08.970 --> 00:56:10.560 So when somebody comes up to me and 00:56:10.560 --> 00:56:13.590 says, I support the troops, I think it's wonderful, 00:56:13.590 --> 00:56:15.885 small acorns grow into mighty oaks. 00:56:15.885 --> 00:56:17.280 It's just the beginning 00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:20.940 of supporting us, not because of us, 00:56:20.940 --> 00:56:24.000 but you still get to have a voice of 00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:27.090 what you think about the war and we encourage that. 00:56:27.090 --> 00:56:28.830 I have people come to me all the time and 00:56:28.830 --> 00:56:31.200 talk about how the war is wrong and things are wrong. 00:56:31.200 --> 00:56:33.510 That's okay, and at the same time, 00:56:33.510 --> 00:56:34.785 walk away and say, 00:56:34.785 --> 00:56:39.345 but I love you, and thank you for serving. 00:56:39.345 --> 00:56:40.860 And I always tell them it's an honor. 00:56:40.860 --> 00:56:42.690 So I think what Steve was talking about, 00:56:42.690 --> 00:56:44.490 the kind of connected with Steve 00:56:44.490 --> 00:56:46.650 was talking about in that slogan, 00:56:46.650 --> 00:56:48.960 is I don't support the war so I don't support the troops. 00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:51.300 Do we have one more question? 00:56:51.300 --> 00:56:54.375 So I just want to say a personal thanks for this. 00:56:54.375 --> 00:56:56.370 It's the most fun we've had all day. 00:56:56.370 --> 00:57:01.080 [inaudible] One kind of question is, 00:57:01.080 --> 00:57:03.825 I read the article when 00:57:03.825 --> 00:57:07.455 it was published and now I've seen the feedback. 00:57:07.455 --> 00:57:12.375 It's interesting feedback [inaudible] dealt with this. 00:57:12.375 --> 00:57:15.300 But a lot of it revolves around this argument, hey, 00:57:15.300 --> 00:57:18.570 "walk a mile in my shoes, you don't get it". 00:57:18.570 --> 00:57:20.100 My question really is it, 00:57:20.100 --> 00:57:23.340 maybe it goes the [inaudible] , 00:57:23.340 --> 00:57:26.549 in our democratic society with a very technical, 00:57:26.549 --> 00:57:28.589 very professional military, 00:57:28.589 --> 00:57:31.720 who gets to critique the military? 00:57:31.820 --> 00:57:36.210 Is it, "Unless you've walked a mile in my shoes, 00:57:36.210 --> 00:57:38.849 then you don't get to critique?", 00:57:38.849 --> 00:57:42.900 or is it the citizenry of that society served that's 00:57:42.900 --> 00:57:47.470 allowed to ask questions? 00:57:47.660 --> 00:57:49.620 I guess that goes to the colonel. 00:57:49.620 --> 00:58:03.870 Well, from my perspective. 00:58:03.870 --> 00:58:06.540 We choose [inaudible] I call you, 00:58:06.540 --> 00:58:10.125 sir and ma'am because you're civilians. 00:58:10.125 --> 00:58:14.850 I do that because part of our cornerstone is that we 00:58:14.850 --> 00:58:21.465 are civilian-ruled and also that you pay my salary. 00:58:21.465 --> 00:58:24.945 More importantly, I feel like, 00:58:24.945 --> 00:58:26.835 although I'm about to retire 00:58:26.835 --> 00:58:30.180 and that means for the first time in my life I will be 00:58:30.180 --> 00:58:35.550 a consumer of security instead of a provider of security. 00:58:35.550 --> 00:58:45.600 We really do feel that if, and if Joe in nameless city, 00:58:45.600 --> 00:58:49.125 if you came up to him and critiqued him and the military, 00:58:49.125 --> 00:58:50.830 he might take offense. 00:58:50.830 --> 00:58:53.160 But in an academic situation, 00:58:53.160 --> 00:58:56.290 if you talk to me about what the military is or isn't, 00:58:56.290 --> 00:58:57.120 because there is nothing wrong, 00:58:57.120 --> 00:58:58.170 I'm certainly going to give 00:58:58.170 --> 00:59:00.315 you what I think is my opinion. 00:59:00.315 --> 00:59:03.915 But I think you all have that ability 00:59:03.915 --> 00:59:07.890 as long as we don't insult the troops. 00:59:07.890 --> 00:59:10.080 We understand that they are 00:59:10.080 --> 00:59:13.680 carrying out policies of the government. 00:59:13.680 --> 00:59:17.085 Minus them committing a crime, 00:59:17.085 --> 00:59:21.015 aka Nazi extermination camps where 00:59:21.015 --> 00:59:22.680 they clearly understood that these were 00:59:22.680 --> 00:59:25.380 innocents and yet followed orders anyway, 00:59:25.380 --> 00:59:31.440 minusing that kind of situation, at the end of 00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:34.410 this massive discourse and argument you have, 00:59:34.410 --> 00:59:36.720 I think walking away and saying thank you for 00:59:36.720 --> 00:59:40.110 your service is still an appropriate phrase. 00:59:40.110 --> 00:59:44.670 Any last comments? Gentlemen, I want to thank you for 00:59:44.670 --> 01:00:08.000 your participation [APPLAUSE] [inaudible]