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Terrific. Thank you all so much. Very

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helpful. I'm realizing we have a few minutes, we

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started a few minutes late so I'm gonna take a

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slight moderator's prerogative and go over just a few minutes.

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So I and what I wanted to do was

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really um in the spirit of engaging all of us

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um in this conversation, I wanted to pose one

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question for our discussion and that is, I mean we've

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heard a you know a great um a couple of

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examples of seed funding here right here on campus.

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We've heard um others at the national level, the

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federal level interested in in funding these kinds of projects.

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Um I wonder, as you all um have have

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so much experience in trying to find money to support

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the work you do, and to our panelists, if

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you could imagine what what an effective and user friendly

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funding um situation would look like for a person wanting

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to do transdisciplinary work? What would that look

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like? What would it be you had said earlier,

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someone had mentioned earlier about, oh it's so

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nice to be in a room where everybody, you

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know, not only talks about this but actually

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encourages us to do this kind of work. If

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you could think about what kind of funding um landscape

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or pro program or project program let's say um would

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look like for you to get your work done for

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you to knock on the door, What would you

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want on the other side of that door? I'm

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asking you. Yeah. Yeah. [inaudible]

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[inaudible]

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[inaudible]

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and that and speak to the fact that it takes

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it takes a group. It takes a diverse group

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to understand a difficult and diverse problem. So when

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I think about the apparatus that I would want to

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deal with, I would want a group of people

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that come from several different backgrounds that meet maybe on

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like a monthly or a quarterly basis that would review

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my project and actually look at it from multiple perspectives

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and diverse lenses to understand what I'm actually trying to

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do. And that would be able to understand the

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kind of impact I want to have on the world

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with what I'm coming up with. Thank you for

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that. I think to your point it's the idea

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is that for the review panel, for example,

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for whoever the funder is, but for the review

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panel to have transdisciplinary researchers on that who can

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can look um from their own lens as a transdisciplinary

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researcher and in addition to having the the other

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multiple disciplines reviewing it with their lenses. But but

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the you know, one of the things we were

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talking about the um projects you you had reminded me

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of a couple of projects I've been involved in um

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that involved NIH funding and CDC

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Funding and they were billed as these um you

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know, at the time, multidisciplinary projects. But

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really what they were was like parallel play when you're

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kid. We were each playing in our own little

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thing, but we were kind of playing together.

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Um and I think what we're after here is what

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happens as we, you know outgrow toddlerhood and we

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actually start to engage and we play with each other.

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So the review panels have to be like that

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as well. I mean, I think, you

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know, to be able to expect that um a

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person from a single discipline is gonna look at at

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at your transdisciplinary work is hard to imagine.

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They could have a real good set of comments for

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that. Having different sectors represented. I think you

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need different institutions. So like he's from the government,

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National National Endowment for the Arts. I would

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want other universities. I would want community centers like

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um with the speakers that were talking earlier, Emily

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especially, it's when you're doing this research, whatever research

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you're doing, you wanted to have a real impact

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on the people. So having rep representatives of those

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stakeholders in the room. So here people who work

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directly with the community, here are people who engage

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in the scholarly work. And then here are the

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people who have the money. How do all of

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these people actually sit in a room come together and

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then pick something that's really going to have impact on

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the people who need it most. Yeah. And

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and for a land grant institution like Virginia Tech,

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that fits so squarely into what our mission is.

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But that is an excellent point. Um, thank

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you for sharing. Others? What would you want to

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see on the other side of that door? Yeah,

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thank you. It's pretty simple. But I

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think there's often a concern that the agency personnel and

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those that are crafting these calls get it for lack

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of a better word, but that it goes to

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a review panel and they don't get it. They

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are still in those silos. So I guess would

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be nice to know if and how review panels are

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being um, for lack of a better word brought

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up to speed on on what the expectations, expectations

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of transdisciplinary are, what they look like and

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what we really want to see in a proposal because

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I think that's the big fear among many people is

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that they're gonna do this great work and it's gonna

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be the program officers may love it, but it

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doesn't get funded. Yeah, that's something we really

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are trying to be vigilant about. Again, we

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have a little bit more diesel term. Again,

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that was used earlier, nimbleness with a smaller agency,

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smaller government agencies. We can, we can

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be a little bit more, uh, you know,

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we can, we can be very deliberate in

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choosing people from various sectors and various backgrounds to serve

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on these panels and we do that and we make

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it fully transdisciplinary that said, you know,

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there are other layers, right? There's always management,

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you know, did even if we like it

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or you know, we we take it up the

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chain, you know, is this something that the

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National for the Arts wants to fund? It goes

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then to the National Council on the Arts, they

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make a recommendation. Um but it is, you

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know, it's a highly competitive process. I do

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think though that by and large the panel decisions are

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and I think this is true, not only for

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research for across the National Art for the Arts,

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uh the panels have a great deal of input is

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with a lot of federal agencies, so they get

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those recommendations get taken extremely seriously. Um but I

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do think this has been this is just enlarge that

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question a bit for us federal funders and maybe even

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institutionally like there's this wish that we could just be

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more cross institutional or cross agency in our approach.

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So we so many times and one thing is we

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have recommended people for other panels for other federal agency

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panels. Now, we don't know all the time

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what whether they took us up on that and used

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them. Um but you know what we would love

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and we talked about this for a long time with

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the National Science Foundation, nothing really quite matured yet,

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but you know, having some agreement where we

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could create our own panels with them and and you

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know, do projects that are falling in between two

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stools that are not getting to the Nationals for the

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Arts or the National Science Foundation, which, you

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know, where we need reviewer teams. Um and

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and those are really hard conversations that having that falls

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on us in government, but that's the that's the

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onus is, you know, they want to all

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agencies want to protect their, you know, their

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mission very as they should, but in doing so

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they may overlook that there's a need for this transdisciplinary

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panel and funding orientation. I would just add

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to that that that we do that in house too.

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So it's not uncommon for Ben or any of

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the other institute directors to call the one of us

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and say we have this proposal and it sort of

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fits with us, but there's this element, are

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you interested? You want to take a look, do

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you have people that can help us look at it

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um, together? And so so we recognize that

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up the chain as you leave, leave our summit

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outside the university and so I think we really try

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um to be very mindful of that, so we

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don't want to leave you with the impression that we

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have these like institute silos, but they're really a

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a um I don't know what's a good analogy of

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what we are, but we really work in tandem

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and in partnership with one another to help um,

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to set the stage for you. Yeah, that's

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exactly what I was going to say. I think

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it's easier for us at Virginia Tech than between federal

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agencies and there's not a lot of um more senior

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researchers here today, there's a lot of young people

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and there's some administrators here. But one of the

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things that senior researchers can do is to actually consider

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working on these panels. If you're a scientist,

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consider working on an NEA. If you are an artist,

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consider, you know, look at, I'll

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scare it so um over there. Um but you

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know, he is a musician, but he's just

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got an NSF grant. Him working on an NSF

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panel brings that to the panel that you're asking for,

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Um and that that you're looking at is how

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do we get these panels? And I'll just make

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a plug to a guy who's no longer, who stepped

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down from the National Science Foundation, but it's a

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point in bringing him up is his um friend Leonard,

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um and he was one of those people that

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when he was with this diverse um panel would give

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them permission. I remember being in a panel very

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where um somebody said, well this project has a

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lot of art in it, is that okay that

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we liked it? Is it okay that we ranked

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it highly and a frame was very proud to say

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yes, it is fine, it is multidisciplinary,

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that point of view is important. He was also

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very proud that he was the at that time,

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the number one NSF program officer that was brought up

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on Capitol Hill, um, the most in terms

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of the projects that he funded. So there's a

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challenge on the politics that we brought up today as

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well. But he's terrific. I mean, I

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think, you know, just one quick thing.

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Um, if I can remember it, it was

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uh yeah, just just that. Um, yeah,

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the the one thing that I don't know that

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I think we also have to be a little bit

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guarded about and careful about is what I'll just call

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disciplinary integrity. So that doesn't mean we shouldn't do.

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I mean obviously this is all about transdisciplinary

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work. But what what gets tricky is sometimes when

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the science or even the art seems skimpy in one

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of those transdisciplinary type of applications. So it's

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really important that, you know, that that nothing

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is lost in the process of fusing. And if,

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if everything is gained, you know, and

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if there is a loss, it's it's called out

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and it's like, okay to do this, we

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are maybe going to sack sacrifice this design or that

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that but the benefit is this that and I think

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that's something that I have seen reviewers sometimes struggle with

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is when they're, you know, you can imagine

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it's like a cognitive psychologist reviewing and she's used to

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a certain protocol and she sees this is different.

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Why are they doing it this way that's a week

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or study or there's less end or something, you

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know, and we can, if they can justify

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that, then that's okay. Yeah, I I

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think that's a great point. The other pieces to

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this gentleman's point, I think it would also be

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completely acceptable. Not not that, you know,

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it would, you know, every project officer can

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decide what they're gonna do, but completely acceptable to

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recommend to the project officer that somebody who has experience

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in transdisciplinary research beyond the panel. You know,

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it's it's certainly a reasonable thing for them to

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consider whether it's for that particular panel or a panel

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in the future. So it's partly having the right

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for the disciplinary integrity, having the right disciplines there,

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but also having someone there who can say see

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across all that people like you who do this kind

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of work, um, would be really critical for

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the kinds of panels that that we're talking about.

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So I would encourage you. I mean, as

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a former Fed, you know, one of the

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things we do is listen to our constituents, right?

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We listen to people who use our services and

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who we to people that we serve. And so

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I would encourage you to do that. Um,

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if you're applying for a federal grant as well.

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All right, um, in the interest of,

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of our ensuring we've got time to do the rest

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of the things that just make one quick thing.

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I would like to amplify the plug that was made

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earlier about. If you want to be a Panelist

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uh, by all means contact us. Uh,

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we would be very interested. We keep, you

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know, we always looking for great reviewers and we

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appreciate the voluntary work. And the second thing is,

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as Ben knows, there's a report that maybe

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you all know, National Academy of Sciences produced uh,

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not long ago, that was co funded by

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the National Humanities, any a and uh, the

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Mellon Foundation called branches or branches from the same tree.

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Um, and it's a wonderful report looking at

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this very, these very topics as it pertains to

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arts and humanities and stem and medicine. Excellent.

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Thank you all so much. Can we please thank

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our panel again.