WEBVTT

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Good evening. My name is Ginny Pannabecker and

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I met all of my science and scholarly communication librarian

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here at Virginia Tech. And I would like to

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thank all our Panelists who have come today. Oh

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. Oh, Okay. Okay. So I apologize

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. We were attempting. You're not to, um

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you're attempting to connect this Panelist with a Panelist that

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was grown up so that we could have a joint

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panel today, but unfortunately, it looks like,

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Yeah, it's just not in the cards. So

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we want them to be able to go ahead and

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go with their event there. What we have today

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is, um, videos from our exhibit, uh

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, native peoples, concepts of health and illness.

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And we are very fortunate to have several of our

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Panelists here. Victoria Ferguson is who we are missing

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from Romano. And so she will be discussing the

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videos with the participants there. Um, that's okay

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. So I would like to introduce our moderator for

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today. Uh, Dr Sam Cooke, director of

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American Indian studies here at Virginia Tech. Dr.

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Pick is a cultural anthropologist by training. His current

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research focuses on indigenous ecologies and knowledge systems and the

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relationship between native and Western science. Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much

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for having me. Thank you. Jenny and Antonio

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and, uh, Sam win to help really,

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uh, pull the funding together to make this happen

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and bring this exhibit here. Um, and this

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is really important, I think, because it opens

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a dialog. Okay, I think pretty loud.

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Yeah. So this is the reason to me this

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is really important, because this at least we began

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opening the cab because we're at a university that is

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dominated by Western knowledge. It's the product of Western

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knowledge. And uh huh, a very linear type

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of knowledge. That privilege is a worldview that places

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humans at the top. And it also advances a

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colonial system that tries to squelch other knowledge systems.

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Um, and that's why we have programs like mine

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American Indian in numerous studies. And that's why we

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have, uh we're fortunate to have this panel of

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scholars and collaborators like Victoria Ferguson is a good friend

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of mine. A wish that you could meet and

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you will have the opportunity on October 10th if you

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come to our events at the turfgrass Center where we

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have an indigenous garden. You'll see her first hand

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telling some incredible storms. But, um, this

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begins to open that dialogue. I preface that by

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saying that it is the product of the National Institute

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of Health, which is a product of Western society

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. So it's our job to challenge the perspectives that

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might come forward. But I think this is This

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is an incredible opportunity to, um, to give

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these dialogues, take indigenous knowledge every bit as seriously

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as anything that comes out of Western science and understand

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that these ways of knowing are vital to our future

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, providing sustainability. So I'll introduce our Panelists briefly

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. Um, I could go probably speak volumes since

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I hand selected them right, but they're incredible people

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who get to see. And then somebody will have

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to tell me the format from here because I know

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we will pose a series of videos to which each

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will respond. Our first Panelist is made high who

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, uh, comes to us from the owner should

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not be people who are far north of Canada and

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May is a PhD student in science education, but

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her focus is on the intersection of indigenous knowledge and

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Western science and She's very much about punching that hole

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in the Canada, Um, to her. Right

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. Okay. Right. My other right. Okay

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. Is, uh, Professor Mike Bowers, an

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assistant professor in the School of Neuroscience, coming to

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us from the West and here's of dead people would

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from hickory a might not mistaken northern New Mexico and

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also great to have him here. Because our our

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school of neuroscience is a very innovative Carl's disciplinary field

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. That I think is one of the few things

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that we've done recently. The truly begins to challenge

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the way people think to his right. Dr.

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Nick Copeland, assistant professor. It happens to be

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housed in the department sociology buddies with me, an

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American Indian studies and also cultural anthropologist. So I

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doubly and triply thrilled to have him with us.

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Um, research has been largely rooted in Guatemala,

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but he's done a spectacular job of retooling when he

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came here. And he has volumes to say that

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is worth listening to. And finally, but not

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least, Doctor. Excuse me. Rebecca Hester,

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assistant professor to our system from the Department of Science

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, Technology and society. And, um you know

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, I I first became acquainted with her work on

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health issues and in Mexico and borderlands. And when

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when Jenny first, uh, asked for people who

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would be good on this and talking about these intersections

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with the medical profession. In fact, I think

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I think Rebecca is the first person that came to

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mind. So because you have a very extensive,

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uh, resume of collaborator at least engaging in espionage

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and medical schools don't That's good. That's good.

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So, um, as I understand it, we're

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going to present a series of videos and we're gonna

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follow three tracks, and our first segment is on

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health and environment. Okay, Good. Will come

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back and ask. Our Panelists respond. So,

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um okay, it is so important that everyone in

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this this land division that we are the highest quality

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can help intellectually superior, physically superior academically. Well

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off. Because without those three, if your would

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be nothing, nothing healthy in many ways, so

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healthy with regards to harvest it. You take what

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you need. Pull from here, you cut a

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slipping and put it back into the ground. That's

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, uh, that's going green is what Elko is

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doing that we've been doing for hundreds of years.

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So that's the first of five videos in this section

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. And if it's okay, I'll play the others

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. They're all from interviews with people who contributed to

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the exhibit. That's up on Level two through my

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grandparents and my generation. How they would always talk

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about that. We would always talk about what he

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wills and tell us stories you know about the trees

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and the water, everything they have, they had

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some problems for, um today, you know,

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you don't hear that too much amongst the people,

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and a lot of them, a lot of them

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. They know that there's things going on our own

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community. The water is taking over. But as

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far as nature, as far as what the kids

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talk about this is there's not too many awareness of

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it. And basically, because we're in the community

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in in an area where there is very much nature

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, it means that we have the housing areas and

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, uh, the flooding and things like that.

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So it's hard to think positive about the nature,

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and we don't have very much to look at.

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Yeah, okay. When the Indian reservations were created

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, especially under the United States government authority, they

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found almost four grand within the state territories and so

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forth. And that's where they placed the Indians.

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And they don't have the natural resources to exploit.

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Except for a few trials. They don't have cold

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. They don't have to ask oil. Uh,

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so they just out there living on the land base

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that doesn't have any kind of resources that it's going

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. So they continue to go back to Washington to

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request additional appropriations for this or that and so forth

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. But primarily it's for education, for health reasons

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, for housing and things of that nature. Yeah

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, why is it? Yeah, we had good

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water, but now a lot of water is contaminated

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because of housing. The situation it's up to things

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were put in contaminant, creeks and rivers. Let's

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now we have a I don't know situation. How

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we're I'm learning is taking place near our recipe,

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and it's affecting our water resources. And I'm on

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a pancreatic. Cancer is turning them. You know

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, there's a lot of about other types of cancer

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to a lot of people are saying that it's coming

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under water. Yeah, the water that the nurses

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, actually the taro fields are being aggravated elsewhere,

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so you know. So it's just, you know

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, trying to make sure that other diet is protein

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a lot more expensive than sugar, maybe 400 expenses

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for anyone to undertake an action side. Better have

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some money behind them. And now the traditional corn

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the Indians is going to fuel. And that was

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a good glass of sugar cane, which is having

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a good but we kind of like no longer have

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China. You know, when you work these plantations

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, you just exposed to pesticides and insecticides that we

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may see a crossing increase in the counselors. So

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you know, it's not only dealing with your own

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health, is dealing with the environment, would do

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a party so mhm and as moderator, I don't

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think it's my job to respond to much. But

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I do want to point out a couple of things

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here. One of this concept of natural resources,

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which is, I think, kind of a novel

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and dangerous idea for some indigenous peoples because it essentially

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allows everything to become commodified, Um, and then

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the it's it separates the subject from the land that

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separates the spiritual entity from the land, and that's

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you know, the other point that I listen to

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these and I compelled to point out in Western society

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, especially in the world we live in now,

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it's very transient. Very few people have a true

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rudeness, and you compare that to the world views

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of people who've lived somewhere over thousands of years,

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and and that that is that place. Well,

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it is a place. It's not just a space

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, it's a place. It's place imbued with memory

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and spirits and relationships. So much so that just

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just just the name of place to bring up the

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name of a place evokes entire volumes of stories.

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And that situate people, too. The point that

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a given place, a given rock given tree,

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our intimate relatives and that's a that's a worldview that

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is hard to construe, but it's an important it's

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very important. So I'll ask our Panelists, uh

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, to economize on comments to certain degrees that everybody

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gets a word in and that we I don't know

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how long we here so 10 o'clock. Yeah,

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okay, so yeah, so we don't have to

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go to 10 o'clock. So let's let's begin with

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a high drawing stick figures I sat in the hot

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seat here. You introduce first top. I'll shake

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it up. Can we, like, bounce back

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and forth as well? Uh, you have a

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question? Yeah. Actually, I do have a

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prompt, so I'll pose this to all of you

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. What? Just based on your experience, your

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research, your work, Um, on the interfaces

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with health and environment. Do you have anything that

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you can shared? It doesn't even have to relate

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to the videos necessary. Specific videos is anything you

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would like to address here. Especially with relevance to

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health and environment. I can say a little bit

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about the world view. Okay, What I'm thinking

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on that is that, um I think a lot

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like, sort of in pictures and words are sort

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of challenging for me at times. But I think

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of like my day and I have, like,

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the hope in this world, and I know what

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I do every day, and I know it pretty

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good, but I don't know what anybody else does

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in here. And I take I work in education

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and I take teachers and I'm taking them out on

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Friday to work with May flies and things like that

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. Each may fly has a hoop. Every rock

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has a hoop. We have different ideas about animate

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and inanimate. If something acts or does, it's

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a bean. And it's really hard for me to

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think of something that does not act or do like

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. If you think Iraq doesn't actor, do you've

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ever seen our assignments? Is caution falling rocks?

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It does something, um, so I do something

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. Everything I interact with does something, and I

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think of the world almost like a world organism.

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So there's people that have co evolved almost with certain

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organs of the world. If you can imagine that

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like, uh, you know, I may be

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from a place that's like alone, somebody else might

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be from a place that's like an arm or something

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. So I know that how my place works because

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we've co evolved with that place. Um, so

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in terms of health, if that part of the

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organ gets sick, we get sick. It makes

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other parts sick. It damages these all of these

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groups that are intertwined. And when I say the

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sacred, I think of something that is too much

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for one human brain to think about, all at

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one time, So even in this model that I'm

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sort of presenting of, the world is like,

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almost like an organism. Maybe I understand one little

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bit of it, but I need to talk with

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other people who have co evolved with these other spaces

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to get knowledge about those. Nothing works independently in

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Western thinking sort of alienates us from each other,

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so we don't understand how the whole thing works.

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Uh, Mike Bowers, do you have something to

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contribute here? Well, one of the things I

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noticed in that video of those sets of videos with

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when they talked about the resources and obviously the reason

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why, uh, water problems. There's a common

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theme there. It's not shocking if you've ever been

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, if really my experience of growing up in,

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you know, areas like Arizona, New Mexico and

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seeing where the reservations are at their poor. And

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as you saw, um, and it's easy to

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exploit poor people. So when you have these resources

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being tainted and commodities, if you will like water

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, um, I think it's just a small microcosm

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of what's going to happen in the larger societies.

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So extrapolate from that, um, many of you

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probably read the news about the fracking that's going on

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? Um, that's going to permeate out, and

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I'm gonna hit larger society right now. The indigenous

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people are really affected by that, and they it's

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just not recently, it's been going on for quite

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some time. But low voices, low power,

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Uh, not enough able ability to voice their,

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um, struggles. You get dampened. Nobody listens

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when it starts to permeate out and hits places like

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Oklahoma that doesn't have earthquakes. And now you've got

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5.3 earthquake, 5.8 earthquakes, coincidentally enough, within

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the last decade or change again living there. I

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grew up there. I would play sports there,

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never experienced the earthquake. Only time I did is

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when I went to California, visited friends and family

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. Now my buddies are telling me we have earthquakes

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in Oklahoma. I just shocked at how the frequency

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Well, whether it is or isn't we can debate

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the relationship, too, the fracking. But that's

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I think it's just a small snippet of what's going

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to happen to the larger group, and that is

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non indigenous people. So I think that it's kind

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of reflective of the trials and tribulations that they're talking

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about their difficulties they face. It's going to permeate

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out and taking off of what just may have mentioned

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. It's a It's a it's a sickness. Sickness

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is just like a virus. It's going to replicate

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its going to get further and worse and worse.

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So that's one of the things that kind of jumped

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out at me. Is that, um, there's

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your There's your frog that's gonna be damaged by the

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chemicals. There's your first litmus test for something not

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going right, and it's ignored. So you've got

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a bigger problem if you if you cease to listen

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to what's going on and we're like the virus,

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you know, like the world. It's not like

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because you hear sometimes that the world is, you

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know, it won't exist anymore. It will,

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but it will. If we don't fix making it

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sick, we will perish. We don't learn how

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to it's ways. Absolutely. Dr. Copeland,

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a lot of things in those videos resonated with,

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uh, things I have studied and written about in

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Guatemala. Things I've seen there, you know there

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aren't reservations in Guatemala, you have our indigenous people

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, the majority of the population who primarily live in

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mountainous areas. Um, and they've been driven to

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the mountainous areas because people wanted to go coffee on

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land that they have been living on. And so

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they ran away from the coffee plantations. They ran

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away from colonial society. They went to hard to

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find locations, and it's difficult to grow food there

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. Um, sometimes water is hard to come by

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. Uh, the soil can be really rocky,

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and poor people are farming. They're growing corn on

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the sides of mountains that really steep. There's a

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lot of erosion and, uh, you know,

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very little, uh, surface soil in many cases

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, no irrigation sometimes. And a lot of miles

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talk about times before when people were really strong and

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they can lift£300 and carry it up the mountain

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when they used to eat herbs and eat a different

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kind of food. But I think that you know

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what you were talking about as well was I think

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that the way I talk about their living now in

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the environment they're living in, there's a lot of

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pollution in the water supply. Uh, there's little

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access to water. Uh, people live amidst environmental

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runoff, and people are I mean, I think

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of it as a form of environmental racism where you

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have a population that's abandoned. They have very little

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infrastructure per sewage. They have very little infrastructure for

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water treatment facilities they don't have. I mean,

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in many cases people are throwing away all the toilet

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paper and a plastic bag into the river because there's

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nowhere else to put it. And, of course

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, flies develop out of that. This is actually

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the norm in most rural communities in Guatemala, where

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there's no sanitation whatsoever. This is a combination of

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of a lot of things that have brought us to

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this point. But these are populations that are primarily

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abandoned by the government, and they get sick as

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a result of this very frequently. Um, and

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there are new problems. You know, One thing

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I did study was the United States Department of Agriculture

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has a program called Moscow Med, and it's designed

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. It's been operating since the late 19 seventies,

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and it wanted to trap the fruit fly in Guatemala

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so it wouldn't come up to the United States and

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affect the Citrus production in Florida and in the southern

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part of Texas as well and some other places.

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California Well, in order to stop the fruit fly

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, they try to create a chemical barrier, and

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they spread Malloth ion over all of these communities for

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30 years without taking any precautions. Water supplies,

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homes. People will get sick. Children, we

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get sick. And of course, indigenous people have

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been trying to get rid of this program. They

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have different theories about what it's actually doing, but

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they've seen their subsistence ability to produce subsistence crops decline

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massively over the same period of time. And they

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say this program has a lot to do with it

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. It also has a lot to do with the

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failure of agricultural chemicals, which also have other effects

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in the environment and and so on and so forth

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. One thing I'm seeing now is in relationship to

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mining operations, which are now focusing on these same

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communities hydro electric dams that are stopping up the rivers

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that they you know so they don't even have any

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water at all. There's a new awakening in Guatemala

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and relationship to new free market economic policies. The

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major social movement in Guatemala now is the defense of

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territory against extractive is, um And it's precisely this

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kind of mentality of extracting from the earth, taking

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resources and putting humans on top of putting, you

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know, money. Basically on top of the ecosystem

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that has caused a real awakening, a real ecological

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politics. It's one, and this isn't just Guatemala

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. If you look across Latin America and if you

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look at what's happening in the Dakota Access Pipeline and

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the resistance to Keystone, this indigenous ecological politics is

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it's growing, and it's tapping into the same kind

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of world views, uh, that May is talking

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about. It's about, you know, these are

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abandoned populations. You're absolutely right. You know,

401
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they're they're the ones that are getting the worst of

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00:25:06.569 --> 00:25:08.490 A:middle L:90%
it. But these are things that are happening to

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00:25:08.490 --> 00:25:12.410 A:middle L:90%
broader society as well. So, Jim Yeah,

404
00:25:14.470 --> 00:25:18.349 A:middle L:90%
no, thanks. So that that those videos are

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00:25:18.349 --> 00:25:21.210 A:middle L:90%
very generative for me. The first thing I want

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to say is that within the Western world view,

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health is the absence of disease within an indigenous worldview

408
00:25:29.420 --> 00:25:32.519 A:middle L:90%
. What you have is what the first video really

409
00:25:32.529 --> 00:25:36.819 A:middle L:90%
connected us to Is the idea of an interconnectedness broader

410
00:25:36.819 --> 00:25:41.000 A:middle L:90%
understanding of health a balance between nature, other communities

411
00:25:41.009 --> 00:25:44.769 A:middle L:90%
, other living things. What uh, you know

412
00:25:45.029 --> 00:25:47.640 A:middle L:90%
, Jane Bennet calls a political ecology of things.

413
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.130 A:middle L:90%
Things vibrant matter, things coming together. And so

414
00:25:51.130 --> 00:25:53.599 A:middle L:90%
it's much more copious and robust than just the simple

415
00:25:53.609 --> 00:25:56.849 A:middle L:90%
absence of disease. So starting from that premise,

416
00:25:56.859 --> 00:26:02.160 A:middle L:90%
what we then understand is that when we are operating

417
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:03.339 A:middle L:90%
from this idea of health, there is a broad

418
00:26:03.339 --> 00:26:07.190 A:middle L:90%
definition than of what is causing sickness, right?

419
00:26:07.190 --> 00:26:08.029 A:middle L:90%
And so this gets back to the question of what

420
00:26:08.029 --> 00:26:11.470 A:middle L:90%
is the relationship between environment and health. And,

421
00:26:11.470 --> 00:26:15.200 A:middle L:90%
as has already been talked about here, um,

422
00:26:15.210 --> 00:26:17.849 A:middle L:90%
I'll pull out sort of the health aspects of it

423
00:26:17.859 --> 00:26:18.799 A:middle L:90%
. Um, for anyone that's interested. There's a

424
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:22.779 A:middle L:90%
great PBS series called Unnatural Causes, and there's one

425
00:26:22.779 --> 00:26:25.829 A:middle L:90%
video and they're called Bad Sugar. And it talks

426
00:26:25.829 --> 00:26:29.500 A:middle L:90%
precisely about this relationship between water and the rise of

427
00:26:29.500 --> 00:26:32.970 A:middle L:90%
diabetes in in the Autumn Tribes right on the Mexico

428
00:26:32.970 --> 00:26:34.980 A:middle L:90%
Arizona border and also the Pima who live in southern

429
00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:38.000 A:middle L:90%
Arizona, have diabetes rates out the roof, and

430
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.250 A:middle L:90%
this is related to access not just to clean water

431
00:26:41.250 --> 00:26:44.559 A:middle L:90%
but to good food, because obviously, putting clean

432
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:47.309 A:middle L:90%
water and this is the first gentleman talked about is

433
00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:48.849 A:middle L:90%
the relationship to the harvest. So when you don't

434
00:26:48.849 --> 00:26:52.619 A:middle L:90%
have access to good water, then you can't grow

435
00:26:52.619 --> 00:26:53.759 A:middle L:90%
good food. And when you can't grow good food

436
00:26:53.769 --> 00:26:56.500 A:middle L:90%
, then you have to rely on all kinds of

437
00:26:56.500 --> 00:27:00.210 A:middle L:90%
either cheap food or donated food, which or prepackaged

438
00:27:00.220 --> 00:27:02.829 A:middle L:90%
foods. And all of that increases rates of diabetes

439
00:27:02.829 --> 00:27:04.250 A:middle L:90%
. We know that right? And so it's no

440
00:27:04.250 --> 00:27:07.000 A:middle L:90%
surprise that diabetes is one of the number one killers

441
00:27:07.009 --> 00:27:11.539 A:middle L:90%
of Native Americans in the United States. But it's

442
00:27:11.539 --> 00:27:12.609 A:middle L:90%
not the number one. The number one is hard

443
00:27:12.619 --> 00:27:15.859 A:middle L:90%
issues and why our heart issues the number one issue

444
00:27:15.940 --> 00:27:18.940 A:middle L:90%
that we know and in public health, there is

445
00:27:18.940 --> 00:27:22.220 A:middle L:90%
a concept called Alice Static Load. It is related

446
00:27:22.220 --> 00:27:26.380 A:middle L:90%
to compound in distress on the body over time,

447
00:27:26.390 --> 00:27:29.589 A:middle L:90%
and that Allah static load is informed by such things

448
00:27:29.589 --> 00:27:33.410 A:middle L:90%
as racism in society as entrenched and longstanding poverty,

449
00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:37.069 A:middle L:90%
social stigma, all of the kinds of things,

450
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.710 A:middle L:90%
Um, and particularly if you read in Native Americans

451
00:27:40.710 --> 00:27:42.440 A:middle L:90%
, sort of in there in concepts, particularly the

452
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:47.450 A:middle L:90%
second condition, concepts of self, they really suffer

453
00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:48.490 A:middle L:90%
and I mean suffer in a sense of the health

454
00:27:48.490 --> 00:27:52.240 A:middle L:90%
, suffering from a sense of hopelessness and future lawlessness

455
00:27:52.250 --> 00:27:55.200 A:middle L:90%
. Right? And it's no, and it's no

456
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:59.259 A:middle L:90%
surprise, given these larger issues that, for example

457
00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:02.960 A:middle L:90%
, in Canada, suicide is very high among indigenous

458
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:04.970 A:middle L:90%
and native youth, right average. And so the

459
00:28:04.970 --> 00:28:08.009 A:middle L:90%
relationship to the to the Earth and to the environment

460
00:28:08.019 --> 00:28:11.150 A:middle L:90%
is fundamental. But, as I'm trying to point

461
00:28:11.150 --> 00:28:12.910 A:middle L:90%
out, is also cross cut by social relations by

462
00:28:12.910 --> 00:28:17.730 A:middle L:90%
longer standing histories and politics which have devalued not just

463
00:28:17.730 --> 00:28:21.700 A:middle L:90%
indigenous knowledge systems but also indigenous lives. And so

464
00:28:21.710 --> 00:28:25.440 A:middle L:90%
the consequences of that are not only epistemological, but

465
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.730 A:middle L:90%
they are embodied, and they manifest themselves as very

466
00:28:27.730 --> 00:28:32.710 A:middle L:90%
important health outcomes, health outcomes that lead to shorter

467
00:28:32.710 --> 00:28:34.910 A:middle L:90%
lives for native peoples and more suffering throughout their lifetime

468
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.869 A:middle L:90%
for them. So that's one thing I wanna point

469
00:28:37.869 --> 00:28:40.859 A:middle L:90%
out, and you know this. I think about

470
00:28:40.869 --> 00:28:41.930 A:middle L:90%
a conversation I have really tall. There is an

471
00:28:41.930 --> 00:28:45.029 A:middle L:90%
anthropologist. She and I were at a conference one

472
00:28:45.029 --> 00:28:47.420 A:middle L:90%
time. She's working at Berkeley, and I think

473
00:28:47.420 --> 00:28:49.359 A:middle L:90%
she's in Canada now. She's talking about formative landscapes

474
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:52.809 A:middle L:90%
and the idea that she really didn't like work because

475
00:28:52.809 --> 00:28:56.859 A:middle L:90%
she missed the big Sky. But we can also

476
00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.069 A:middle L:90%
think about formative landscapes and much broader weights, right

477
00:29:00.069 --> 00:29:02.319 A:middle L:90%
? The ways that these landscapes actually form, not

478
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:06.099 A:middle L:90%
just our psychological and community understands and self understanding but

479
00:29:06.109 --> 00:29:08.309 A:middle L:90%
also the ways that they corn and inform our bodies

480
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:11.579 A:middle L:90%
. So also up there are a lot more statement

481
00:29:11.589 --> 00:29:12.039 A:middle L:90%
. I just want to put that out there.

482
00:29:12.049 --> 00:29:15.930 A:middle L:90%
It's a much more copious understanding that just the simple

483
00:29:15.940 --> 00:29:18.359 A:middle L:90%
absence of disease. Mm. Right. So I

484
00:29:18.369 --> 00:29:23.549 A:middle L:90%
believe our next series has to do with food diets

485
00:29:25.170 --> 00:29:30.170 A:middle L:90%
and healing planners. Correct? Uh huh. Drunk

486
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:41.170 A:middle L:90%
. Okay. Uh huh. You're wrong. Okay

487
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:55.299 A:middle L:90%
. Mhm. Okay. Morning incorporated. Nutritional healing

488
00:29:55.309 --> 00:30:00.329 A:middle L:90%
and prayer. And then our work here is the

489
00:30:00.329 --> 00:30:03.609 A:middle L:90%
diet. Uh, it's really, uh, diet

490
00:30:03.619 --> 00:30:10.250 A:middle L:90%
19. He flied. Unless we're able to get

491
00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:15.049 A:middle L:90%
together. Cohort of three, 100 A of riots

492
00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:18.460 A:middle L:90%
. We lived in hostile land to do an inter

493
00:30:18.460 --> 00:30:22.339 A:middle L:90%
salt study. Wh in assault study. At the

494
00:30:22.339 --> 00:30:25.789 A:middle L:90%
same time, we gathered all the information, did

495
00:30:25.789 --> 00:30:29.670 A:middle L:90%
cholesterol a one C kind of like studies, did

496
00:30:29.670 --> 00:30:32.670 A:middle L:90%
all the measurements and were able to publish a paper

497
00:30:32.670 --> 00:30:37.519 A:middle L:90%
as to the so called cardiovascular risk factors and native

498
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:40.880 A:middle L:90%
points. And from there we moved on to looking

499
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:44.099 A:middle L:90%
at traditional night. You know, we called it

500
00:30:44.099 --> 00:30:49.450 A:middle L:90%
the pre cooked pre captain cook died. Okay.

501
00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:56.910 A:middle L:90%
Okay. Oh, okay. The ability to access

502
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.210 A:middle L:90%
nutritious food and the high cost of living is a

503
00:31:00.210 --> 00:31:03.819 A:middle L:90%
huge barrier to health in the villages. And we're

504
00:31:03.819 --> 00:31:07.599 A:middle L:90%
seeing that in obesity. We're seeing that in diabetes

505
00:31:07.609 --> 00:31:11.609 A:middle L:90%
, and all of those rates are increasing in the

506
00:31:11.609 --> 00:31:15.740 A:middle L:90%
rural areas. So what to do about that?

507
00:31:15.740 --> 00:31:18.000 A:middle L:90%
I would have thought there's no exercise needed the rural

508
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.759 A:middle L:90%
area than this study. Well, I think that

509
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.220 A:middle L:90%
we're finding that more people are relying on store bought

510
00:31:26.230 --> 00:31:30.680 A:middle L:90%
foods, and, um, they don't live the

511
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:37.759 A:middle L:90%
traditional lifestyle that they used to. Okay, Yeah

512
00:31:42.140 --> 00:32:00.490 A:middle L:90%
, back. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. How

513
00:32:00.490 --> 00:32:04.519 A:middle L:90%
do we deal with the problem That so many people

514
00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:07.619 A:middle L:90%
in the world probably over half, actually live in

515
00:32:07.619 --> 00:32:10.430 A:middle L:90%
cities where there is very little contact with the soil

516
00:32:10.430 --> 00:32:15.509 A:middle L:90%
and era. Country thinks that we're speaking creative garden

517
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.519 A:middle L:90%
for yourself. You can use your, uh,

518
00:32:19.529 --> 00:32:22.519 A:middle L:90%
plants can bring plants. You can have drawings.

519
00:32:22.529 --> 00:32:23.960 A:middle L:90%
You can live through your gardens. Who are you

520
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:27.630 A:middle L:90%
can live in the garden to music? Yeah.

521
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:29.450 A:middle L:90%
Powered by a comma, Connie. And the wind

522
00:32:29.450 --> 00:32:32.579 A:middle L:90%
blows. That's bringing. It's bringing the environment into

523
00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:39.670 A:middle L:90%
the building. Yeah. Yeah. And package.

524
00:32:40.569 --> 00:32:53.769 A:middle L:90%
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes.

525
00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:12.049 A:middle L:90%
Mhm. Yes. Okay. Right. Oh,

526
00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:19.190 A:middle L:90%
yeah. Uh, And say that has a rash

527
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.339 A:middle L:90%
and comes to see me um, you know the

528
00:33:22.339 --> 00:33:25.019 A:middle L:90%
Western side. Allow me to introduce the traditional side

529
00:33:25.029 --> 00:33:28.380 A:middle L:90%
, and I see the rash. I know what

530
00:33:28.390 --> 00:33:30.900 A:middle L:90%
herb that person needs. I will take that person

531
00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:34.369 A:middle L:90%
. We will walk into the gardens and I will

532
00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:37.430 A:middle L:90%
begin the process of healing. And the procedure works

533
00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:38.859 A:middle L:90%
this way. I will go up to the plan

534
00:33:39.690 --> 00:33:44.410 A:middle L:90%
and in my own traditional language, I will say

535
00:33:44.740 --> 00:33:47.119 A:middle L:90%
plant. This is Dr Lindbergh. He has a

536
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:52.019 A:middle L:90%
rash. You have the ability to help us heal

537
00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:55.569 A:middle L:90%
his rash. May I please ask you to sacrifice

538
00:33:55.579 --> 00:34:00.089 A:middle L:90%
whether your leaf or your stem or your flower sacrifice

539
00:34:00.089 --> 00:34:05.990 A:middle L:90%
it and allow me to take it. And he'll

540
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:10.230 A:middle L:90%
, Doctor Lindbergh, when I take it from that

541
00:34:10.230 --> 00:34:14.019 A:middle L:90%
ranch flower stem or even kill the plant so that

542
00:34:14.030 --> 00:34:15.610 A:middle L:90%
we can help heal you, I will say to

543
00:34:15.610 --> 00:34:19.789 A:middle L:90%
the plant commitment. That confident we're going to I

544
00:34:19.789 --> 00:34:22.550 A:middle L:90%
have to you is that we will always make sure

545
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:25.940 A:middle L:90%
that your race will never leave the earth. And

546
00:34:25.940 --> 00:34:30.190 A:middle L:90%
we commit ourselves to you and your ancestry, as

547
00:34:30.190 --> 00:34:32.389 A:middle L:90%
you have just committed yourself to healing him and his

548
00:34:32.389 --> 00:34:36.599 A:middle L:90%
ancestry. And that way we will both live on

549
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:43.969 A:middle L:90%
this Earth forever. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

550
00:34:44.539 --> 00:34:47.960 A:middle L:90%
Okay, Um, just just a couple of things

551
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:51.289 A:middle L:90%
came to mind that I wanted to share. What

552
00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:53.090 A:middle L:90%
part of it is that? That these folks are

553
00:34:53.090 --> 00:35:00.670 A:middle L:90%
really responding to the objectification of what Western society pitches

554
00:35:00.670 --> 00:35:05.219 A:middle L:90%
is resources. But I was initially reminded of one

555
00:35:05.219 --> 00:35:09.130 A:middle L:90%
of my first mentors and oldest mentors grad school.

556
00:35:09.139 --> 00:35:13.090 A:middle L:90%
Um, it was one of the most brilliant human

557
00:35:13.099 --> 00:35:16.389 A:middle L:90%
beings Avenue. Uh, Robert Thomas is a Cherokee

558
00:35:16.389 --> 00:35:21.460 A:middle L:90%
anthropologist, and and he blew people away because you

559
00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:22.590 A:middle L:90%
would not think this guy had ph. D.

560
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:24.909 A:middle L:90%
Uh, you know, he was about his back

561
00:35:24.909 --> 00:35:28.349 A:middle L:90%
country, Northeast Oklahoma as they could get. You

562
00:35:28.349 --> 00:35:30.949 A:middle L:90%
met him. He was brilliant, and he had

563
00:35:30.949 --> 00:35:34.989 A:middle L:90%
a way of just pulling out these singers and marvel

564
00:35:35.210 --> 00:35:37.239 A:middle L:90%
at the amount of energy and effort and abstraction and

565
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:43.469 A:middle L:90%
money that Western social scientists and medical sciences pumped into

566
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:47.710 A:middle L:90%
trying to explain the problems of indigenous communities. And

567
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:51.840 A:middle L:90%
I remember him once just blurting out in a conference

568
00:35:51.849 --> 00:35:53.909 A:middle L:90%
, people wonder why ended so fat because he's a

569
00:35:53.909 --> 00:35:58.869 A:middle L:90%
damn much, you know. But in that statement

570
00:35:58.869 --> 00:36:00.199 A:middle L:90%
, he was saying, You know, let's look

571
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:04.599 A:middle L:90%
at the deeper issue here. Indians have always eaten

572
00:36:04.610 --> 00:36:07.949 A:middle L:90%
because that's the life cycle. But let's think to

573
00:36:07.949 --> 00:36:14.519 A:middle L:90%
about what happens when your traditional diet gets get circumvented

574
00:36:14.860 --> 00:36:17.340 A:middle L:90%
. And how did the United States government bringing into

575
00:36:17.340 --> 00:36:21.550 A:middle L:90%
the so called Indian wars on the Great Plains?

576
00:36:22.130 --> 00:36:24.130 A:middle L:90%
Now it wasn't by sending Custer and the seventh Cavalry

577
00:36:24.130 --> 00:36:29.460 A:middle L:90%
out. It was by systematically paying people to slaughter

578
00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:32.750 A:middle L:90%
the bison's kill the bison herds, you know,

579
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:36.579 A:middle L:90%
just to And that did it. I mean,

580
00:36:36.590 --> 00:36:40.090 A:middle L:90%
that did it. A lifestyle that focuses around following

581
00:36:40.090 --> 00:36:44.619 A:middle L:90%
those herds and just as you know, to the

582
00:36:44.619 --> 00:36:45.929 A:middle L:90%
last second, knowing where they're going to be,

583
00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:49.699 A:middle L:90%
because your year is going to depend on that once

584
00:36:49.699 --> 00:36:53.449 A:middle L:90%
that's gone, that lifestyle of moving that energy devoted

585
00:36:53.449 --> 00:36:59.690 A:middle L:90%
to that and then pinned into a reservation and given

586
00:36:59.699 --> 00:37:02.099 A:middle L:90%
you know, bleached flour is your main commodity,

587
00:37:02.110 --> 00:37:06.929 A:middle L:90%
we're gonna bloom out. And, you know,

588
00:37:06.940 --> 00:37:10.340 A:middle L:90%
nowadays indigenous peoples joke about that. That's how you

589
00:37:10.349 --> 00:37:13.239 A:middle L:90%
deal with the pressure. Is the joke about it

590
00:37:13.250 --> 00:37:15.269 A:middle L:90%
because, you know, what's the number one thing

591
00:37:15.269 --> 00:37:17.170 A:middle L:90%
that comes out of that fried? Okay, anybody

592
00:37:17.170 --> 00:37:21.659 A:middle L:90%
here ever had fried bread? Oh, it's incredible

593
00:37:21.670 --> 00:37:23.050 A:middle L:90%
. Just the most delicious thing in the world.

594
00:37:23.059 --> 00:37:27.900 A:middle L:90%
It is an excellent source of Type two diabetes to

595
00:37:27.909 --> 00:37:30.150 A:middle L:90%
, um, but and and just, you know

596
00:37:30.829 --> 00:37:35.920 A:middle L:90%
, uh, spring boarding off something that Rebecca said

597
00:37:35.929 --> 00:37:37.650 A:middle L:90%
, You know, it also, these people are

598
00:37:37.650 --> 00:37:45.139 A:middle L:90%
articulating relationships. Um, you know, and with

599
00:37:45.150 --> 00:37:47.809 A:middle L:90%
these beings, you know, we look at food

600
00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:53.170 A:middle L:90%
, we look at whatever pharma pharma Copia is out

601
00:37:53.170 --> 00:37:57.449 A:middle L:90%
. There is something we can objectify in Western society

602
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.690 A:middle L:90%
willow bark and make aspirin. You're not saying I'm

603
00:38:00.690 --> 00:38:02.530 A:middle L:90%
going to ask my relative to help me. And

604
00:38:02.530 --> 00:38:07.800 A:middle L:90%
if you look almost uniformly in the sacred history's most

605
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:12.099 A:middle L:90%
indigenous peoples, beginning with their creation stories somewhere,

606
00:38:12.099 --> 00:38:15.610 A:middle L:90%
pretty soon they're almost uniformly. There's a story about

607
00:38:15.610 --> 00:38:20.000 A:middle L:90%
a compact, sacred covenant, you know, in

608
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:23.099 A:middle L:90%
the Western tradition, that sacred covenant between God and

609
00:38:23.110 --> 00:38:27.409 A:middle L:90%
the Israelites, the 10 Commandments, but in indigenous

610
00:38:27.409 --> 00:38:30.820 A:middle L:90%
traditions that sacred covenants between the people and all the

611
00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:35.719 A:middle L:90%
rest of life. Because human beings very early on

612
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:38.139 A:middle L:90%
started running and market says everything else came together and

613
00:38:38.139 --> 00:38:40.090 A:middle L:90%
said, What are we going to do about these

614
00:38:40.099 --> 00:38:44.440 A:middle L:90%
people were going to have to make a covenant so

615
00:38:44.449 --> 00:38:46.460 A:middle L:90%
that they don't kill us all out, and we

616
00:38:46.469 --> 00:38:50.179 A:middle L:90%
agree to get our lives so they can live.

617
00:38:50.190 --> 00:38:52.579 A:middle L:90%
They agree to the Stewarts, treat us as the

618
00:38:52.590 --> 00:38:55.900 A:middle L:90%
relatives we are, um, so with that in

619
00:38:55.900 --> 00:38:59.159 A:middle L:90%
mind, who made that? I didn't take win

620
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:00.820 A:middle L:90%
from what you're probably about to say. But you

621
00:39:00.820 --> 00:39:04.389 A:middle L:90%
know, what are your perceptions from these videos?

622
00:39:04.389 --> 00:39:08.329 A:middle L:90%
Especially on issues of of food, security, diet

623
00:39:08.340 --> 00:39:14.840 A:middle L:90%
and the healing plants? Also, from your what

624
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:17.019 A:middle L:90%
you were saying about world view and creation stories.

625
00:39:17.030 --> 00:39:22.570 A:middle L:90%
All of the characters in the creation and the constant

626
00:39:22.579 --> 00:39:27.210 A:middle L:90%
co creation of the Earth all have limitations. There's

627
00:39:27.210 --> 00:39:29.829 A:middle L:90%
no one perfect thing. Nobody can do it themselves

628
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:31.489 A:middle L:90%
. So there has to be a compact. And

629
00:39:31.489 --> 00:39:36.090 A:middle L:90%
that's where I probably get my ideas about segments is

630
00:39:36.090 --> 00:39:38.000 A:middle L:90%
that not one kind of thing can do everything has

631
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.019 A:middle L:90%
to do what it's supposed to do and live in

632
00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:43.619 A:middle L:90%
its niche, and people have. Our idea is

633
00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:45.139 A:middle L:90%
walking now. We don't live well within our space

634
00:39:45.139 --> 00:39:49.349 A:middle L:90%
or a routine or who were always like trying to

635
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:52.530 A:middle L:90%
do everybody else's food, and you can. You

636
00:39:52.530 --> 00:39:53.340 A:middle L:90%
got to figure out how to do your as well

637
00:39:53.719 --> 00:39:58.400 A:middle L:90%
. And then that's it, like master it,

638
00:39:58.409 --> 00:40:00.090 A:middle L:90%
but also back to the other videos, too,

639
00:40:00.090 --> 00:40:04.150 A:middle L:90%
and you guys might disagree or agree, but I'm

640
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:05.920 A:middle L:90%
from the most beautiful place in the world. When

641
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:09.780 A:middle L:90%
he said that the reservations are the poorest land Poor

642
00:40:09.780 --> 00:40:14.989 A:middle L:90%
is this, um you know, kind of relative

643
00:40:14.989 --> 00:40:15.900 A:middle L:90%
idea, or there is, like, a hierarchy

644
00:40:15.900 --> 00:40:19.929 A:middle L:90%
. And I'm not from people that believe in hierarchies

645
00:40:20.309 --> 00:40:23.030 A:middle L:90%
. And also, there's this temporal view of what

646
00:40:24.309 --> 00:40:30.190 A:middle L:90%
makes us not poor people. I work. Uh

647
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:31.929 A:middle L:90%
, there's something that's called contested places where somebody occupies

648
00:40:31.929 --> 00:40:34.750 A:middle L:90%
a space, and then somebody thinks they can use

649
00:40:34.750 --> 00:40:36.309 A:middle L:90%
it better, so they occupy the space, and

650
00:40:36.309 --> 00:40:37.349 A:middle L:90%
they they there's always this, like, fighting or

651
00:40:37.349 --> 00:40:39.730 A:middle L:90%
something. And I in my experience and my research

652
00:40:39.730 --> 00:40:43.280 A:middle L:90%
Right now I see people coming together and sort of

653
00:40:43.289 --> 00:40:45.519 A:middle L:90%
trying to work through what's called layered history. Now

654
00:40:45.530 --> 00:40:46.940 A:middle L:90%
, I think maybe not officially called that, but

655
00:40:46.940 --> 00:40:49.869 A:middle L:90%
I think of that like there's a name for this

656
00:40:49.869 --> 00:40:51.139 A:middle L:90%
. And then there's a name for this. And

657
00:40:51.139 --> 00:40:52.829 A:middle L:90%
then there's the name of this. And so there's

658
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:54.469 A:middle L:90%
this, like, sort of nested situation, and

659
00:40:54.469 --> 00:40:58.199 A:middle L:90%
people are looking to How do we make sense of

660
00:40:58.210 --> 00:41:00.719 A:middle L:90%
that? And so, instead of like colonization,

661
00:41:00.730 --> 00:41:05.730 A:middle L:90%
bringing about decolonization will bring about the content of this

662
00:41:05.809 --> 00:41:07.969 A:middle L:90%
. Okay, all this is part of this place

663
00:41:07.969 --> 00:41:09.940 A:middle L:90%
. Now, how do we move forward? Um

664
00:41:10.909 --> 00:41:16.329 A:middle L:90%
uh, So, gosh, I think there's a

665
00:41:16.329 --> 00:41:17.619 A:middle L:90%
whole bunch of other problems that go with that,

666
00:41:17.619 --> 00:41:20.889 A:middle L:90%
too. Like there there may be, is a

667
00:41:20.889 --> 00:41:23.409 A:middle L:90%
space, and it is rich with natural resources.

668
00:41:23.409 --> 00:41:25.190 A:middle L:90%
And you think, Why are those people not doing

669
00:41:25.190 --> 00:41:28.659 A:middle L:90%
anything? What's that? Their fault there. I

670
00:41:28.659 --> 00:41:30.380 A:middle L:90%
think because I work in education that they're educated for

671
00:41:30.380 --> 00:41:34.380 A:middle L:90%
exodus. Like if you're you're educated, you leave

672
00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:37.070 A:middle L:90%
that place, then who protects it? Well,

673
00:41:37.070 --> 00:41:38.110 A:middle L:90%
the people, the other people, they go in

674
00:41:38.110 --> 00:41:40.309 A:middle L:90%
and they move in and then they start doing stuff

675
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:43.320 A:middle L:90%
you think? Well, why? Why are the

676
00:41:43.329 --> 00:41:45.429 A:middle L:90%
people that are from that place doing that? Look

677
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:49.170 A:middle L:90%
, maybe because they wouldn't do that to that place

678
00:41:49.179 --> 00:41:51.530 A:middle L:90%
for someone else comes in and does it. Or

679
00:41:51.530 --> 00:41:54.159 A:middle L:90%
maybe they have been educated to move away from that

680
00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:58.239 A:middle L:90%
place. So it's sort of unprotected, Um,

681
00:41:59.710 --> 00:42:00.670 A:middle L:90%
and going with what the videos were talking about in

682
00:42:00.670 --> 00:42:05.289 A:middle L:90%
terms of food also, Uh huh. There is

683
00:42:05.289 --> 00:42:07.820 A:middle L:90%
this weird process, and I'm not sure exactly how

684
00:42:07.820 --> 00:42:10.090 A:middle L:90%
it came about, but there is this dissociation of

685
00:42:10.099 --> 00:42:12.480 A:middle L:90%
food. What I was saying before about how we

686
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.360 A:middle L:90%
co evolved with landscapes. Our bodies co evolved with

687
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:20.079 A:middle L:90%
certain foods, and I still crave them now.

688
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:22.170 A:middle L:90%
But there's this process of like they used to be

689
00:42:22.170 --> 00:42:25.400 A:middle L:90%
something that we did with. We had these cycles

690
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:30.309 A:middle L:90%
where we and by, uh, you know,

691
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:34.320 A:middle L:90%
people that I'm related to. They still participate in

692
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:37.150 A:middle L:90%
these cycles. They still get to eat these foods

693
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:37.619 A:middle L:90%
that I wish I could have. But there was

694
00:42:37.619 --> 00:42:42.860 A:middle L:90%
something funky that went on in the middle where that

695
00:42:42.860 --> 00:42:45.860 A:middle L:90%
was taken away, or we were made to think

696
00:42:45.860 --> 00:42:47.530 A:middle L:90%
that that's like what primitive people eat here, try

697
00:42:47.539 --> 00:42:50.719 A:middle L:90%
this, or somehow we became associated from it,

698
00:42:50.730 --> 00:42:53.250 A:middle L:90%
and in the process the price went up or it

699
00:42:53.250 --> 00:42:57.590 A:middle L:90%
became rarer or something. And so it's harder to

700
00:42:57.590 --> 00:43:00.909 A:middle L:90%
get or we can't afford to get it anymore.

701
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:04.039 A:middle L:90%
These foods that we need and I believe, just

702
00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:06.420 A:middle L:90%
like I was describing before, is that different people

703
00:43:06.420 --> 00:43:08.619 A:middle L:90%
that grew up with different parts of the world as

704
00:43:08.619 --> 00:43:15.449 A:middle L:90%
embedded beings have different needs. It's not that all

705
00:43:15.449 --> 00:43:17.670 A:middle L:90%
the people need this. There's certain native people to

706
00:43:17.670 --> 00:43:21.420 A:middle L:90%
hang out with that can digest milk. I can't

707
00:43:21.429 --> 00:43:23.619 A:middle L:90%
I didn't come from people that grew up with animals

708
00:43:24.099 --> 00:43:28.679 A:middle L:90%
. Uh, I think there's differences between us,

709
00:43:28.690 --> 00:43:31.849 A:middle L:90%
um, something also that my students talk about,

710
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:35.010 A:middle L:90%
and I think it's related to this topic is.

711
00:43:35.010 --> 00:43:37.909 A:middle L:90%
They say that the nature around us, it's where

712
00:43:37.909 --> 00:43:39.769 A:middle L:90%
we're from, like its surrounding them all the time

713
00:43:39.769 --> 00:43:42.570 A:middle L:90%
. They sometimes use that word surrounding them, and

714
00:43:42.570 --> 00:43:45.210 A:middle L:90%
I have to remind them that it's not always surrounding

715
00:43:45.210 --> 00:43:46.139 A:middle L:90%
you, just like you were saying about the commodification

716
00:43:46.139 --> 00:43:50.519 A:middle L:90%
of things. Like we're somehow separated from our environment

717
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:53.869 A:middle L:90%
often, and you take in there. You let

718
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:57.789 A:middle L:90%
air out, you drink water, it comes out

719
00:43:57.789 --> 00:44:00.190 A:middle L:90%
like it's not around you. It's around you and

720
00:44:00.190 --> 00:44:02.250 A:middle L:90%
it's flowing through you all the time. So you're

721
00:44:02.250 --> 00:44:07.119 A:middle L:90%
not separated from, um, also when they were

722
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:12.590 A:middle L:90%
talking about, um, reciprocity? Uh huh.

723
00:44:15.989 --> 00:44:19.280 A:middle L:90%
There's like, I'm from what could be called a

724
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:23.400 A:middle L:90%
contestant place and we weren't seem to be using it

725
00:44:23.409 --> 00:44:27.190 A:middle L:90%
because we don't scar our landscape so you don't go

726
00:44:27.190 --> 00:44:29.010 A:middle L:90%
. Oh, there's somebody hanging out here and there

727
00:44:29.489 --> 00:44:30.590 A:middle L:90%
. Look, there's a building and there's a that

728
00:44:30.650 --> 00:44:34.949 A:middle L:90%
we we're embedded pieces of it. So you don't

729
00:44:34.949 --> 00:44:36.530 A:middle L:90%
see that just like they were talking about in the

730
00:44:36.530 --> 00:44:38.420 A:middle L:90%
video, like his, uh, sort of treaty

731
00:44:38.420 --> 00:44:43.829 A:middle L:90%
with the plant that would heal the rash like it

732
00:44:43.829 --> 00:44:45.219 A:middle L:90%
does. It's thing we do our thing, it

733
00:44:45.219 --> 00:44:50.210 A:middle L:90%
supports us. We support it and there's this constant

734
00:44:50.989 --> 00:44:53.380 A:middle L:90%
. We're not competing with nature ever and competition.

735
00:44:53.380 --> 00:44:57.250 A:middle L:90%
This is something that I've read recently in the head

736
00:44:57.250 --> 00:45:00.280 A:middle L:90%
table. But I was reading about communities Is that

737
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:04.329 A:middle L:90%
when you find competition in nature, it means something's

738
00:45:04.329 --> 00:45:07.559 A:middle L:90%
wonky because everything should should have enough. And then

739
00:45:07.570 --> 00:45:10.920 A:middle L:90%
everything should be recycled in this perfect system. And

740
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:15.349 A:middle L:90%
when you see something out of whack, that's like

741
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:17.760 A:middle L:90%
a red flag that something is not being reciprocal,

742
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:24.110 A:middle L:90%
something is is not not going well, fuck of

743
00:45:24.110 --> 00:45:29.949 A:middle L:90%
ours. That was an interesting set of videos.

744
00:45:29.949 --> 00:45:31.070 A:middle L:90%
And I think this is, uh my comment would

745
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:34.900 A:middle L:90%
be, uh, somewhat of a springboard off of

746
00:45:34.909 --> 00:45:37.679 A:middle L:90%
what I think Rebecca mentioned, Uh, and and

747
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:40.110 A:middle L:90%
this is like diet. Um, we know that

748
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:45.019 A:middle L:90%
you take poor diets in It affects as she mentioned

749
00:45:45.030 --> 00:45:49.289 A:middle L:90%
, uh, heart disease. But I think what

750
00:45:49.300 --> 00:45:52.250 A:middle L:90%
my comment would be is, uh, appreciation and

751
00:45:52.250 --> 00:45:53.780 A:middle L:90%
again falling off, made by an education. So

752
00:45:53.780 --> 00:45:57.659 A:middle L:90%
what we've learned, what we're learning now is that

753
00:45:57.670 --> 00:46:00.599 A:middle L:90%
what we take into our body actually impacts our brain

754
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:06.110 A:middle L:90%
. And we know now that the gut bio there's

755
00:46:06.110 --> 00:46:07.949 A:middle L:90%
an interrelationship of what goes in our gut and how

756
00:46:07.949 --> 00:46:12.300 A:middle L:90%
the good bacteria they're not gut how they actually help

757
00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:14.900 A:middle L:90%
us, and when you have imbalances in that because

758
00:46:14.900 --> 00:46:17.159 A:middle L:90%
of improper nutrition, it affects your brain development.

759
00:46:17.170 --> 00:46:21.349 A:middle L:90%
We also know from animal studies, which you know

760
00:46:21.349 --> 00:46:22.960 A:middle L:90%
again, we didn't know this before. But we

761
00:46:22.969 --> 00:46:28.070 A:middle L:90%
have reason to believe that bad diets lead to diseases

762
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:30.380 A:middle L:90%
not only in the periphery and the organs, but

763
00:46:30.380 --> 00:46:32.030 A:middle L:90%
also in the brain. Autism, for example.

764
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:36.110 A:middle L:90%
There are some studies that are suggesting that diet can

765
00:46:36.110 --> 00:46:39.510 A:middle L:90%
impact and or change autistic brain because it's basically a

766
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:44.630 A:middle L:90%
brain that has not developed normally extrapolate further. We

767
00:46:44.630 --> 00:46:45.920 A:middle L:90%
know that they're exchanging these things. We know that

768
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:50.010 A:middle L:90%
there's genes that are in the brain that are also

769
00:46:50.010 --> 00:46:52.340 A:middle L:90%
in the body, and these genes behave similarly.

770
00:46:52.340 --> 00:46:54.889 A:middle L:90%
So if you impact the jeans and the guts,

771
00:46:54.889 --> 00:46:58.550 A:middle L:90%
for example, there that gene is in the gut

772
00:46:58.559 --> 00:46:59.809 A:middle L:90%
, it's also in the brain, so it's going

773
00:46:59.809 --> 00:47:02.150 A:middle L:90%
to impact differently. But we know those few genes

774
00:47:02.150 --> 00:47:05.800 A:middle L:90%
that are seen in the periphery and the brain are

775
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:08.889 A:middle L:90%
major major contributors to brain development. There's very few

776
00:47:08.889 --> 00:47:13.010 A:middle L:90%
that coexist in both periphery and central nervous system,

777
00:47:13.019 --> 00:47:15.690 A:middle L:90%
but when they do, they really impact differently.

778
00:47:15.699 --> 00:47:16.289 A:middle L:90%
So it takes. It takes a little bit to

779
00:47:16.289 --> 00:47:20.730 A:middle L:90%
move them off or what moves them off center diet

780
00:47:20.739 --> 00:47:22.820 A:middle L:90%
. So this is a really interesting aspect to think

781
00:47:22.820 --> 00:47:27.480 A:middle L:90%
about when you moved off native or traditional diets,

782
00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:30.820 A:middle L:90%
and you've impacted the way that Canadians get fat.

783
00:47:30.820 --> 00:47:31.969 A:middle L:90%
Like we mentioned, Or just people in general aren't

784
00:47:31.969 --> 00:47:36.139 A:middle L:90%
healthy. That's actually impact in their brain. What

785
00:47:36.139 --> 00:47:37.429 A:middle L:90%
we're also learning from animal studies is that this just

786
00:47:37.429 --> 00:47:40.739 A:middle L:90%
goes beyond you, the individual. It can be

787
00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:45.949 A:middle L:90%
transmitted epigenetic so epigenetic on top of jeans. What

788
00:47:45.949 --> 00:47:47.760 A:middle L:90%
that means is that your environment and or what you

789
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:51.449 A:middle L:90%
or your parents have taken in can affect you.

790
00:47:51.460 --> 00:47:53.369 A:middle L:90%
And so we know through animal studies that you could

791
00:47:53.369 --> 00:47:58.000 A:middle L:90%
have epigenetic modifications in the brain that transmit to your

792
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:00.409 A:middle L:90%
young. So you the In this case, mice

793
00:48:00.409 --> 00:48:04.070 A:middle L:90%
and rats give them poor diets. Their young are

794
00:48:04.070 --> 00:48:06.809 A:middle L:90%
already super susceptible to poor diets. They can eat

795
00:48:06.809 --> 00:48:09.000 A:middle L:90%
1/10 or 100th of what the bad diet that their

796
00:48:09.010 --> 00:48:12.679 A:middle L:90%
parents ate. And they have these symptomology that would

797
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:16.079 A:middle L:90%
categorize this type two diabetes and or mountain development brain

798
00:48:16.269 --> 00:48:20.539 A:middle L:90%
. They're hypersensitive to that, so you're actually transmitted

799
00:48:20.539 --> 00:48:22.150 A:middle L:90%
to further generations, and we know that there's previous

800
00:48:22.150 --> 00:48:25.920 A:middle L:90%
vision predispositions, the genome that makes certain people more

801
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:29.960 A:middle L:90%
susceptible to that we don't understand. Good case in

802
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:34.010 A:middle L:90%
point is alcohol metabolism and Native Americans. There's Tay

803
00:48:34.010 --> 00:48:36.769 A:middle L:90%
Sachs. There's other individuals that come up with diseases

804
00:48:36.769 --> 00:48:38.659 A:middle L:90%
because their genome back, their markers and their genome

805
00:48:38.670 --> 00:48:42.789 A:middle L:90%
making more susceptible to certain diseases. We know that

806
00:48:42.789 --> 00:48:46.019 A:middle L:90%
these epigenetic modifications transmit mother and father to the offspring

807
00:48:46.030 --> 00:48:49.769 A:middle L:90%
, and it just exacerbates the further generation you go

808
00:48:49.769 --> 00:48:52.349 A:middle L:90%
down. So it's a really interesting topic to think

809
00:48:52.349 --> 00:48:55.550 A:middle L:90%
about diet in its own sense and kind of encapsulates

810
00:48:55.550 --> 00:48:58.769 A:middle L:90%
what you're talking about, what the videos and mentioned

811
00:48:58.769 --> 00:49:00.610 A:middle L:90%
. And I think a lot of the Panelists mentioned

812
00:49:00.619 --> 00:49:04.079 A:middle L:90%
is that it's just a snippet of what goes on

813
00:49:04.090 --> 00:49:08.389 A:middle L:90%
in the bigger picture. Okay, cool. And

814
00:49:08.389 --> 00:49:10.809 A:middle L:90%
it seems that it seems, based on some of

815
00:49:10.809 --> 00:49:15.329 A:middle L:90%
these observations, that a lot of new scientific research

816
00:49:15.329 --> 00:49:19.110 A:middle L:90%
is confirming things that connectedness that native traditions have been

817
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:21.369 A:middle L:90%
talking about for quite a long time about these inter

818
00:49:21.369 --> 00:49:23.369 A:middle L:90%
relationships. Whereas before science couldn't see them, they

819
00:49:23.369 --> 00:49:25.519 A:middle L:90%
just denied that they existed. But now that's coming

820
00:49:25.530 --> 00:49:28.730 A:middle L:90%
. Uh, so I actually have a little bit

821
00:49:28.730 --> 00:49:31.170 A:middle L:90%
more of a positive note than than than and I

822
00:49:31.170 --> 00:49:32.510 A:middle L:90%
think, you know, maybe you're speaking to the

823
00:49:32.510 --> 00:49:35.710 A:middle L:90%
diversity of experience with like, you know, it

824
00:49:35.710 --> 00:49:37.829 A:middle L:90%
sounds like this is a really beautiful kind of harmonious

825
00:49:37.829 --> 00:49:40.269 A:middle L:90%
psychological relationship that exists. Um, you know where

826
00:49:40.269 --> 00:49:43.420 A:middle L:90%
you're from, and I think that's amazing. And

827
00:49:43.420 --> 00:49:45.760 A:middle L:90%
I also think that it's something that a lot of

828
00:49:45.769 --> 00:49:49.179 A:middle L:90%
native people talk about, and, uh, that

829
00:49:49.190 --> 00:49:52.889 A:middle L:90%
either, you know, have some aspects of their

830
00:49:52.889 --> 00:49:53.980 A:middle L:90%
lives they do resemble that have a lot of a

831
00:49:53.989 --> 00:49:57.719 A:middle L:90%
worldview and maybe kind of a way of being that

832
00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:00.510 A:middle L:90%
is really focused on that human environment relationship, that

833
00:50:00.510 --> 00:50:05.679 A:middle L:90%
non distinction that you're talking about, but also to

834
00:50:05.690 --> 00:50:07.570 A:middle L:90%
at the same time, having had having lived through

835
00:50:07.570 --> 00:50:12.280 A:middle L:90%
experiences, of having that pushed out of a harmonious

836
00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:15.889 A:middle L:90%
relationship in a really drastic way because of colonialism and

837
00:50:15.889 --> 00:50:20.070 A:middle L:90%
because of settlers because of removal from, you know

838
00:50:20.070 --> 00:50:22.570 A:middle L:90%
, places where they had deep connections to the land

839
00:50:22.860 --> 00:50:27.000 A:middle L:90%
and with the Mayan people. So mine's are known

840
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:29.460 A:middle L:90%
as people of corn, you know their words and

841
00:50:29.460 --> 00:50:30.619 A:middle L:90%
miss and the purple boots from those of your familiar

842
00:50:30.619 --> 00:50:32.050 A:middle L:90%
is that they were. They were shaped out of

843
00:50:32.059 --> 00:50:36.070 A:middle L:90%
clay that that that that person wasn't that that person

844
00:50:36.070 --> 00:50:37.320 A:middle L:90%
didn't hold together, but then somebody was made out

845
00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:39.949 A:middle L:90%
of corn. And that person actually operated and worked

846
00:50:39.949 --> 00:50:43.420 A:middle L:90%
as a human, Um, and that they are

847
00:50:43.420 --> 00:50:45.130 A:middle L:90%
subsistence, primarily subsistence. Farmers are growing their own

848
00:50:45.139 --> 00:50:49.869 A:middle L:90%
food. But subsistence has been in decline for a

849
00:50:49.869 --> 00:50:52.030 A:middle L:90%
variety of business because their ominous bad land Because the

850
00:50:52.030 --> 00:50:55.360 A:middle L:90%
green revolution which was supposed to solve the land problem

851
00:50:55.369 --> 00:50:57.949 A:middle L:90%
, they have very little land. All the land

852
00:50:57.949 --> 00:51:00.260 A:middle L:90%
is in big plantations, so they're trying to make

853
00:51:00.260 --> 00:51:01.630 A:middle L:90%
a living on these little pieces of land. For

854
00:51:01.630 --> 00:51:05.760 A:middle L:90%
a little while. Agrochemicals came in and solve the

855
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:07.500 A:middle L:90%
problem a little bit. But now, 15 or

856
00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:10.590 A:middle L:90%
20 years later, there are new pests. Those

857
00:51:10.590 --> 00:51:13.690 A:middle L:90%
fertilizers don't work the way that they were that they

858
00:51:13.690 --> 00:51:15.690 A:middle L:90%
were supposed to work before. Now they are addicted

859
00:51:15.690 --> 00:51:19.639 A:middle L:90%
to fertilizers. They're addicted to pesticides. The price

860
00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:21.489 A:middle L:90%
of those things has gone up because they're linked to

861
00:51:21.489 --> 00:51:23.980 A:middle L:90%
the price of petroleum and the international market. And

862
00:51:23.980 --> 00:51:29.079 A:middle L:90%
so subsistence farmers who used to just grow corn And

863
00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:31.869 A:middle L:90%
have we encountered a lot of the major problems that

864
00:51:31.869 --> 00:51:35.949 A:middle L:90%
they had before from just lack of land. So

865
00:51:35.960 --> 00:51:38.489 A:middle L:90%
indigenous farmers in Guatemala have had an experience just hunger

866
00:51:38.860 --> 00:51:43.199 A:middle L:90%
, not having enough calories to eat in a day

867
00:51:43.210 --> 00:51:45.989 A:middle L:90%
period and the amount of work that they're doing to

868
00:51:45.989 --> 00:51:49.030 A:middle L:90%
produce their food has been more than the calories.

869
00:51:49.030 --> 00:51:50.550 A:middle L:90%
In many cases, they were taken in, so

870
00:51:50.550 --> 00:51:52.760 A:middle L:90%
they had malnutrition. Well, then, you know

871
00:51:52.769 --> 00:51:54.989 A:middle L:90%
. Then they went through the green Revolution, and

872
00:51:54.989 --> 00:51:59.210 A:middle L:90%
that changed their diets because a lot of pesticides and

873
00:51:59.219 --> 00:52:01.889 A:middle L:90%
herbicides that were new kill plants that used to be

874
00:52:01.889 --> 00:52:05.539 A:middle L:90%
really important parts of diet, like herbs that grew

875
00:52:05.539 --> 00:52:07.380 A:middle L:90%
around the corn plant. Different kinds of beans that

876
00:52:07.380 --> 00:52:10.289 A:middle L:90%
grew naturally are different kinds of medicinal herbs. Those

877
00:52:10.289 --> 00:52:13.880 A:middle L:90%
things are no longer as much part of the diet

878
00:52:14.050 --> 00:52:15.119 A:middle L:90%
, so you have just a few things that are

879
00:52:15.130 --> 00:52:21.179 A:middle L:90%
growing in corn fields. So you still have hunger

880
00:52:21.190 --> 00:52:22.550 A:middle L:90%
, and now you have a new kind of malnutrition

881
00:52:22.550 --> 00:52:25.289 A:middle L:90%
where people aren't getting the kinds of nutrition that they're

882
00:52:25.289 --> 00:52:28.469 A:middle L:90%
getting in it, because the soil itself isn't getting

883
00:52:28.469 --> 00:52:30.519 A:middle L:90%
the kind of nutrition right. It used to be

884
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:32.980 A:middle L:90%
getting 20 and 30 and 40 and 50 years ago

885
00:52:32.989 --> 00:52:36.809 A:middle L:90%
. And of course, we don't wanna romanticize what

886
00:52:36.820 --> 00:52:39.500 A:middle L:90%
agriculture was like before chemicals because they were on bad

887
00:52:39.500 --> 00:52:42.699 A:middle L:90%
land. They didn't have enough food. They have

888
00:52:42.699 --> 00:52:45.179 A:middle L:90%
been pushed away from their native subsistence, so that's

889
00:52:45.190 --> 00:52:50.219 A:middle L:90%
something to think about. Now you have, uh

890
00:52:50.230 --> 00:52:52.329 A:middle L:90%
, free trade since 2000 and five in Guatemala have

891
00:52:52.329 --> 00:52:55.530 A:middle L:90%
free trade agreements. So corn comes in subsidized from

892
00:52:55.530 --> 00:53:00.070 A:middle L:90%
the United States. A lot of packaged goods,

893
00:53:00.070 --> 00:53:00.889 A:middle L:90%
a lot of sodas, a lot of sugar based

894
00:53:00.889 --> 00:53:04.300 A:middle L:90%
things, a lot of corn syrup. So now

895
00:53:04.300 --> 00:53:07.210 A:middle L:90%
you have hunger or people are hungry. But they're

896
00:53:07.210 --> 00:53:09.699 A:middle L:90%
malnourished, right? They're not getting nutrients, and

897
00:53:09.699 --> 00:53:13.940 A:middle L:90%
then they maybe in some cases very few, actually

898
00:53:13.940 --> 00:53:15.349 A:middle L:90%
in certain communities. But in some cases you are

899
00:53:15.349 --> 00:53:19.570 A:middle L:90%
starting to see obesity related to new kinds of food

900
00:53:20.250 --> 00:53:22.460 A:middle L:90%
. What's happening? Um, in many communities,

901
00:53:22.460 --> 00:53:25.909 A:middle L:90%
and also they're really worried about genetically modified corn coming

902
00:53:25.909 --> 00:53:29.369 A:middle L:90%
in and affecting them. And they're really worried about

903
00:53:29.369 --> 00:53:31.010 A:middle L:90%
the effects of disease and health that are coming from

904
00:53:31.010 --> 00:53:35.469 A:middle L:90%
all these contaminations. They see this as contaminations,

905
00:53:35.469 --> 00:53:37.050 A:middle L:90%
things that have affected something natural, things that have

906
00:53:37.059 --> 00:53:38.739 A:middle L:90%
changed the way we used to eat herbs. And

907
00:53:38.739 --> 00:53:40.829 A:middle L:90%
now we can't get you know, these kind of

908
00:53:40.829 --> 00:53:44.880 A:middle L:90%
things are really common here among among my people.

909
00:53:45.050 --> 00:53:50.289 A:middle L:90%
But what's happening now in reaction to these changes of

910
00:53:50.289 --> 00:53:53.980 A:middle L:90%
subsistence diets and also the onslaught of mining operations and

911
00:53:53.980 --> 00:53:58.119 A:middle L:90%
hydro electric dams and other kinds of evolution, you

912
00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:00.079 A:middle L:90%
know in the environment is that people have also been

913
00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:04.429 A:middle L:90%
displaced so that people can grow African poem, which

914
00:54:04.429 --> 00:54:07.659 A:middle L:90%
is like a commodity crop or cane sugar, which

915
00:54:07.659 --> 00:54:08.400 A:middle L:90%
is also a big commodity. Crops. These are

916
00:54:08.409 --> 00:54:14.760 A:middle L:90%
displacing subsistence agriculture in Guatemala, so people have a

917
00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:17.079 A:middle L:90%
lot of peasants have decided that they want to go

918
00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:22.519 A:middle L:90%
back to aggro ecology. It's a model for subsistence

919
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:28.949 A:middle L:90%
agriculture sustainable model that's based in native organic local production

920
00:54:28.969 --> 00:54:31.849 A:middle L:90%
as opposed to market production as opposed to using agrochemicals

921
00:54:31.849 --> 00:54:35.630 A:middle L:90%
. It's supposed to be kind of native fertilizers,

922
00:54:35.630 --> 00:54:38.260 A:middle L:90%
organic fertilizers, organic production, and they're doing it

923
00:54:38.269 --> 00:54:43.039 A:middle L:90%
, Um, and they're trying to get to something

924
00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:45.480 A:middle L:90%
that they called food Sovereignty. And there was the

925
00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:49.019 A:middle L:90%
one video that said, Oh, you know,

926
00:54:49.019 --> 00:54:52.769 A:middle L:90%
you have a lack of access to available food.

927
00:54:52.769 --> 00:54:53.730 A:middle L:90%
There was one of the video people that talk about

928
00:54:53.730 --> 00:54:58.469 A:middle L:90%
lack of access. That's a food security model when

929
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:00.760 A:middle L:90%
food security is defined as access to a certain number

930
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:04.070 A:middle L:90%
of calories of food. And this is a very

931
00:55:04.070 --> 00:55:06.849 A:middle L:90%
stripped down, you know, kind of absence of

932
00:55:06.860 --> 00:55:08.869 A:middle L:90%
health kind of model of our absence of disease,

933
00:55:08.869 --> 00:55:13.860 A:middle L:90%
model of health, food security is about access to

934
00:55:13.869 --> 00:55:15.599 A:middle L:90%
it doesn't matter. What kind doesn't matter where you

935
00:55:15.610 --> 00:55:17.769 A:middle L:90%
get it doesn't matter. Anything else. But indigenous

936
00:55:17.769 --> 00:55:23.510 A:middle L:90%
people are increasingly moving towards agro ecology to rebuild subsistence

937
00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:25.500 A:middle L:90%
, and they're talking not about food security. They're

938
00:55:25.500 --> 00:55:30.269 A:middle L:90%
talking more about food, sovereignty and food. Sovereignty

939
00:55:30.269 --> 00:55:32.780 A:middle L:90%
is a broad concept, but it's not just access

940
00:55:32.780 --> 00:55:37.940 A:middle L:90%
to this number of calories. It's the control over

941
00:55:37.940 --> 00:55:42.469 A:middle L:90%
the resources necessary to produce your own food, the

942
00:55:42.469 --> 00:55:44.530 A:middle L:90%
kind of food that you want to grow, the

943
00:55:44.530 --> 00:55:46.650 A:middle L:90%
kind of food that you need to survive and not

944
00:55:46.650 --> 00:55:51.179 A:middle L:90%
having to be dependent on fertilizers, not having to

945
00:55:51.179 --> 00:55:53.280 A:middle L:90%
be dependent on other people in order to produce it

946
00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:58.440 A:middle L:90%
. So this defense of territory movement that's really important

947
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:00.059 A:middle L:90%
and it is really growing, and it is trans

948
00:56:00.059 --> 00:56:06.309 A:middle L:90%
continental. This defensive territory is tapping into agro ecology

949
00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:09.539 A:middle L:90%
as a prime alternative for poor farmers who are experiencing

950
00:56:09.539 --> 00:56:15.010 A:middle L:90%
these kind of environmental and dietary dislocations. So this

951
00:56:15.010 --> 00:56:17.570 A:middle L:90%
is something positive that I've been studying lately. One

952
00:56:17.570 --> 00:56:22.679 A:middle L:90%
of my big questions is how can that become realistically

953
00:56:22.690 --> 00:56:25.320 A:middle L:90%
possible for small farmers who are in fact addicted to

954
00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:30.420 A:middle L:90%
chemical fertilizers who are dependent on chemical pesticides who don't

955
00:56:30.420 --> 00:56:32.610 A:middle L:90%
have good land like how can these alternatives really work

956
00:56:32.610 --> 00:56:35.650 A:middle L:90%
, and how can they really be scaled up so

957
00:56:35.650 --> 00:56:37.719 A:middle L:90%
that people can recuperate? Um, some version of

958
00:56:37.730 --> 00:56:40.769 A:middle L:90%
food sovereignty? Or how could it be done without

959
00:56:40.780 --> 00:56:45.119 A:middle L:90%
kind? Because I don't really think there's Badlands.

960
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:46.440 A:middle L:90%
It's just there was time to co evolved with it

961
00:56:46.449 --> 00:56:49.610 A:middle L:90%
, like there's places that are that I would think

962
00:56:49.610 --> 00:56:51.940 A:middle L:90%
are really challenging to live in. But people have

963
00:56:51.949 --> 00:56:55.090 A:middle L:90%
done it because they had this time to figure it

964
00:56:55.090 --> 00:56:58.369 A:middle L:90%
out. And now we're sort of almost and I

965
00:56:58.369 --> 00:56:59.869 A:middle L:90%
don't know if it's our own framing of it.

966
00:56:59.869 --> 00:57:05.119 A:middle L:90%
Like if that mentality of crisis well, sort of

967
00:57:05.130 --> 00:57:08.690 A:middle L:90%
prevent us from making steps necessary. No, I

968
00:57:08.690 --> 00:57:09.949 A:middle L:90%
mean, I think, too, that, you

969
00:57:09.949 --> 00:57:13.840 A:middle L:90%
know, when you have soil that hasn't has been

970
00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:15.989 A:middle L:90%
eroded, and that doesn't have a lot of topsoil

971
00:57:15.989 --> 00:57:17.820 A:middle L:90%
. It's mostly clay and rock. Some people,

972
00:57:17.829 --> 00:57:21.079 A:middle L:90%
some indigenous farmers, will talk about their soil being

973
00:57:21.090 --> 00:57:24.570 A:middle L:90%
terrible, and maybe they haven't been using that.

974
00:57:24.570 --> 00:57:28.769 A:middle L:90%
Maybe they've used pesticides over the herbicides, and they

975
00:57:28.769 --> 00:57:31.199 A:middle L:90%
haven't been telling weeds into their soil. And so

976
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:36.269 A:middle L:90%
these soiled soils in many places are sterilized. They

977
00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:38.849 A:middle L:90%
dig out like a little like pot size hole,

978
00:57:38.860 --> 00:57:43.860 A:middle L:90%
put fertilizer in it and then that's what Rosen then

979
00:57:43.869 --> 00:57:45.900 A:middle L:90%
nothing will be produced without fertilizer. So that's I

980
00:57:45.900 --> 00:57:47.449 A:middle L:90%
mean, like in terms of a time like it

981
00:57:47.449 --> 00:57:51.090 A:middle L:90%
is renewable, but maybe not within a human lifetime

982
00:57:51.099 --> 00:57:52.900 A:middle L:90%
or within the farmers. Opal, that's what.

983
00:57:52.900 --> 00:57:54.519 A:middle L:90%
Yeah, and that's exactly what they're trying to do

984
00:57:54.519 --> 00:57:58.190 A:middle L:90%
with that grow. Ecology is Take these sterile soils

985
00:57:58.199 --> 00:58:00.539 A:middle L:90%
and, you know, put fertilizer back into them

986
00:58:00.550 --> 00:58:04.820 A:middle L:90%
, develop their own kind of local forms of replenishing

987
00:58:04.820 --> 00:58:07.150 A:middle L:90%
these things. But it is true, like there's

988
00:58:07.150 --> 00:58:08.739 A:middle L:90%
that there's a relationship to these lands and there's beautiful

989
00:58:08.739 --> 00:58:14.000 A:middle L:90%
places. But there's also the reality that there was

990
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:16.429 A:middle L:90%
a process where they were forcibly removed from the most

991
00:58:16.429 --> 00:58:20.769 A:middle L:90%
fertile soils in the country and forced to, and

992
00:58:20.769 --> 00:58:22.530 A:middle L:90%
they did it. But they farmed in some places

993
00:58:22.530 --> 00:58:27.940 A:middle L:90%
where it was really difficult to even using, you

994
00:58:27.940 --> 00:58:30.400 A:middle L:90%
know, organic methods. It just wasn't enough food

995
00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:32.590 A:middle L:90%
for a lot of people. So that's something where

996
00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:37.840 A:middle L:90%
there is that historical process of dislocating and turning people

997
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:40.989 A:middle L:90%
off into into mountainous areas. Sometimes where how are

998
00:58:40.989 --> 00:58:43.639 A:middle L:90%
they supposed to grow their own food? People didn't

999
00:58:43.639 --> 00:58:45.210 A:middle L:90%
care about them. State didn't care about them at

1000
00:58:45.210 --> 00:58:51.849 A:middle L:90%
all. So sure, so, uh, in

1001
00:58:51.849 --> 00:58:53.690 A:middle L:90%
the prior segment of video of section of videos.

1002
00:58:53.690 --> 00:58:57.699 A:middle L:90%
We talked about health, and this particular section of

1003
00:58:57.699 --> 00:59:00.159 A:middle L:90%
videos for me really brings up the question of what

1004
00:59:00.170 --> 00:59:04.530 A:middle L:90%
medicine? Right? And so plants are food,

1005
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:08.900 A:middle L:90%
relationships, connections, harmonies, balances, right,

1006
00:59:08.909 --> 00:59:13.389 A:middle L:90%
even temporal concepts. All of these things have,

1007
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:15.460 A:middle L:90%
essentially, to this question of what is medicine,

1008
00:59:15.469 --> 00:59:19.179 A:middle L:90%
rituals? Prayer, which is a much more again

1009
00:59:19.190 --> 00:59:22.480 A:middle L:90%
different and much more copious understanding. Right? And

1010
00:59:22.489 --> 00:59:24.469 A:middle L:90%
many of the medicines, as Dr Cook mentioned that

1011
00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:29.929 A:middle L:90%
we now have bottled and commodified actually come from the

1012
00:59:29.940 --> 00:59:31.010 A:middle L:90%
earth, right? He mentioned Boulevard, which is

1013
00:59:31.019 --> 00:59:32.840 A:middle L:90%
the base of aspirin, But there are many.

1014
00:59:34.420 --> 00:59:36.610 A:middle L:90%
So I want us to think about this. And

1015
00:59:36.619 --> 00:59:37.869 A:middle L:90%
you know, I want to talk a little bit

1016
00:59:37.869 --> 00:59:38.480 A:middle L:90%
about the research I've done, and we're putting the

1017
00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:42.920 A:middle L:90%
stucco and tricky and sympatico indigenous migrants from the state

1018
00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:45.809 A:middle L:90%
of Oaxaca living in California. And I've done a

1019
00:59:45.809 --> 00:59:46.599 A:middle L:90%
lot of focus groups and hung out with them a

1020
00:59:46.599 --> 00:59:49.989 A:middle L:90%
lot, and at one point I was talking to

1021
00:59:49.989 --> 00:59:52.579 A:middle L:90%
them about food and asking them what they knew about

1022
00:59:52.590 --> 00:59:53.639 A:middle L:90%
diet, what they knew about food. And I

1023
00:59:53.639 --> 00:59:57.800 A:middle L:90%
was really naively saying to them, You know what

1024
00:59:57.800 --> 01:00:00.219 A:middle L:90%
? To eat right, thinking invoking their traditional diet

1025
01:00:00.230 --> 01:00:02.559 A:middle L:90%
, and they shook their heads and one person stood

1026
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:05.969 A:middle L:90%
up and said, No, we no longer know

1027
01:00:05.980 --> 01:00:07.190 A:middle L:90%
what to eat, right? We live here in

1028
01:00:07.190 --> 01:00:09.690 A:middle L:90%
the United States. We don't know what the tortillas

1029
01:00:09.690 --> 01:00:12.909 A:middle L:90%
having them. We don't know what the food has

1030
01:00:12.909 --> 01:00:15.400 A:middle L:90%
in it, so we don't know what actually,

1031
01:00:15.409 --> 01:00:16.969 A:middle L:90%
right. So So this is a whole other thing

1032
01:00:16.980 --> 01:00:20.139 A:middle L:90%
about the sort of alienation from the Earth. But

1033
01:00:20.139 --> 01:00:22.119 A:middle L:90%
the alienation from their own knowledge is and you know

1034
01:00:22.130 --> 01:00:25.489 A:middle L:90%
, ways of living and being right. So that's

1035
01:00:25.489 --> 01:00:29.090 A:middle L:90%
one thing. Um, the other thing that we

1036
01:00:29.099 --> 01:00:31.489 A:middle L:90%
heard here was this idea of asking permission of the

1037
01:00:31.500 --> 01:00:35.280 A:middle L:90%
Earth. I was talking to Mexico man who was

1038
01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:37.710 A:middle L:90%
the local leader in Greenfield in California, which is

1039
01:00:37.710 --> 01:00:39.360 A:middle L:90%
kind of by Salinas, which is where the big

1040
01:00:39.369 --> 01:00:43.969 A:middle L:90%
California breadbasket is. And I was talking to him

1041
01:00:43.969 --> 01:00:45.960 A:middle L:90%
again about food, and he was saying, You

1042
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:47.489 A:middle L:90%
know, the United States is so different because at

1043
01:00:47.489 --> 01:00:50.679 A:middle L:90%
home I could just go pick an apple off the

1044
01:00:50.690 --> 01:00:52.280 A:middle L:90%
tree or a piece of fruit off a tree,

1045
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:53.030 A:middle L:90%
and I could eat it, and the person who

1046
01:00:53.110 --> 01:00:55.739 A:middle L:90%
whose property would be on whose houses right next so

1047
01:00:55.739 --> 01:00:58.289 A:middle L:90%
I wouldn't say anything to me. He would say

1048
01:00:58.289 --> 01:01:00.400 A:middle L:90%
, Enjoy the apple. And here in the United

1049
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:01.099 A:middle L:90%
States, you'd probably get sued, right? They

1050
01:01:01.110 --> 01:01:04.559 A:middle L:90%
call the police on you. He was exaggerating of

1051
01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:07.429 A:middle L:90%
making the point about this relationship with private property,

1052
01:01:07.710 --> 01:01:09.500 A:middle L:90%
which is also very much part and parcel of the

1053
01:01:09.500 --> 01:01:13.400 A:middle L:90%
Western environmental or ALIPAY Catholic tradition, which is the

1054
01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:15.480 A:middle L:90%
idea of ownership of the body ownership of the land

1055
01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:19.230 A:middle L:90%
, commodification of all things that are meant to heal

1056
01:01:19.510 --> 01:01:21.039 A:middle L:90%
. And so, you know, we have this

1057
01:01:21.039 --> 01:01:25.460 A:middle L:90%
kind of deeper philosophical tradition that infuses biomedicine, which

1058
01:01:25.460 --> 01:01:29.010 A:middle L:90%
we think is a science that is actually very much

1059
01:01:29.019 --> 01:01:32.820 A:middle L:90%
a Western epistemology set of knowledge systems. Um,

1060
01:01:34.309 --> 01:01:35.960 A:middle L:90%
another thing that I heard a lot when I was

1061
01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:37.809 A:middle L:90%
working with indigenous farmworkers, which many of them are

1062
01:01:37.820 --> 01:01:42.800 A:middle L:90%
is that they were exposed to pesticides regularly. Right

1063
01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:45.780 A:middle L:90%
, which feeds into the number two killer of native

1064
01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:49.420 A:middle L:90%
and indigenous populations in the United States was just tumors

1065
01:01:49.429 --> 01:01:52.809 A:middle L:90%
right, which is cancer and unsurprising, given all

1066
01:01:52.809 --> 01:01:53.880 A:middle L:90%
the discussion of mining and other kinds of things in

1067
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:58.210 A:middle L:90%
these communities. Right. Um, but also related

1068
01:01:58.210 --> 01:02:00.730 A:middle L:90%
to, uh, low birth weight. Babies,

1069
01:02:00.730 --> 01:02:02.550 A:middle L:90%
right. Problems with childbearing, other kinds of things

1070
01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:05.960 A:middle L:90%
at the same time that they're out there building vegetables

1071
01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:07.929 A:middle L:90%
. And this is a very common, uh,

1072
01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:10.230 A:middle L:90%
think common refrain that we here but bear saying again

1073
01:02:10.300 --> 01:02:13.010 A:middle L:90%
at the same time that they are out there picking

1074
01:02:13.010 --> 01:02:15.409 A:middle L:90%
the vegetables that quote unquote make us all healthy,

1075
01:02:15.420 --> 01:02:17.340 A:middle L:90%
right? They can't afford the same vegetables and they

1076
01:02:17.349 --> 01:02:20.519 A:middle L:90%
can't go to the supermarket by the broccoli they just

1077
01:02:20.530 --> 01:02:22.429 A:middle L:90%
picked. And they're being showered pesticides, right?

1078
01:02:22.429 --> 01:02:24.400 A:middle L:90%
Or the strawberries or whatever. So that's something to

1079
01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:28.559 A:middle L:90%
think about with regard to these three things. And

1080
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:29.869 A:middle L:90%
then the final thing I want to say. And

1081
01:02:29.869 --> 01:02:31.880 A:middle L:90%
this gets back to the question of research. Um

1082
01:02:31.889 --> 01:02:35.820 A:middle L:90%
, they indigenous group that I worked with in California

1083
01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:38.099 A:middle L:90%
. They applied for funding to a humongous foundation in

1084
01:02:38.099 --> 01:02:42.519 A:middle L:90%
California that had a ton of tobacco tax money and

1085
01:02:42.530 --> 01:02:45.409 A:middle L:90%
was loaded with dough. Their board of directors was

1086
01:02:45.409 --> 01:02:50.460 A:middle L:90%
stacked with bio medical doctors, and this small organization

1087
01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:53.269 A:middle L:90%
applied for funding to create a community garden to grow

1088
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:57.269 A:middle L:90%
herbs for medicine. Right? And this group of

1089
01:02:57.269 --> 01:03:00.190 A:middle L:90%
doctors rejected their proposal. And so that is not

1090
01:03:00.190 --> 01:03:01.550 A:middle L:90%
medicine. That is not health. And we will

1091
01:03:01.550 --> 01:03:04.849 A:middle L:90%
not fund that. That is just, you know

1092
01:03:04.860 --> 01:03:07.940 A:middle L:90%
, fake science. Whatever right. And so it's

1093
01:03:07.949 --> 01:03:10.380 A:middle L:90%
these kinds of ways that they're struggling to try to

1094
01:03:10.389 --> 01:03:13.789 A:middle L:90%
figure out how to make a living and make a

1095
01:03:13.789 --> 01:03:20.429 A:middle L:90%
life and be healthy and and practice their medical histories

1096
01:03:20.429 --> 01:03:22.510 A:middle L:90%
alongside allied health medicines that they rejected, but that

1097
01:03:22.510 --> 01:03:27.480 A:middle L:90%
the systems around them are rejecting them, making extremely

1098
01:03:27.489 --> 01:03:29.570 A:middle L:90%
difficult for them. So there's a lot of things

1099
01:03:29.570 --> 01:03:31.039 A:middle L:90%
in here that I think are worth thinking about with

1100
01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:34.829 A:middle L:90%
regard to our own, not just indigenous or native

1101
01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:37.039 A:middle L:90%
medicine and health, but also about our own medical

1102
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:42.480 A:middle L:90%
system. We should reflect upon. Okay, you

1103
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:45.400 A:middle L:90%
know, that's an interesting story about the rejection of

1104
01:03:45.409 --> 01:03:50.039 A:middle L:90%
that grant. 20 years ago, the monarchy nation

1105
01:03:50.039 --> 01:03:52.679 A:middle L:90%
in Virginia got a grant from R. J.

1106
01:03:52.690 --> 01:03:57.019 A:middle L:90%
Reynolds some of their tobacco flake Asian money for specifically

1107
01:03:57.030 --> 01:04:00.829 A:middle L:90%
for health purposes. But what they got with it

1108
01:04:00.829 --> 01:04:02.760 A:middle L:90%
was a band to take their elders to the doctors

1109
01:04:02.769 --> 01:04:05.980 A:middle L:90%
. But they still drive that thing around some,

1110
01:04:05.989 --> 01:04:10.119 A:middle L:90%
but anyway, so our next segment, I think

1111
01:04:10.119 --> 01:04:14.170 A:middle L:90%
it's gonna be really exciting because it's all about the

1112
01:04:14.179 --> 01:04:18.269 A:middle L:90%
, uh, meetings of Western health practices and indigenous

1113
01:04:18.269 --> 01:04:21.730 A:middle L:90%
healing practices. I'll be really interested to see what

1114
01:04:21.730 --> 01:04:28.809 A:middle L:90%
our panels have to say about this So this is

1115
01:04:28.809 --> 01:04:32.530 A:middle L:90%
our third series. So following this one, if

1116
01:04:32.530 --> 01:04:35.320 A:middle L:90%
any of you have the questions, is also following

1117
01:04:35.329 --> 01:04:44.610 A:middle L:90%
the Panelists. Mhm. Yes. Okay. Yeah

1118
01:04:44.989 --> 01:04:54.920 A:middle L:90%
. True. Uh huh. Mhm. Mhm.

1119
01:04:55.590 --> 01:05:06.920 A:middle L:90%
Yeah. Mm. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah,

1120
01:05:09.690 --> 01:05:15.150 A:middle L:90%
Yeah. Okay. Awesome. I had a great

1121
01:05:15.150 --> 01:05:19.550 A:middle L:90%
experience with both tribal medicine with modern medicine. You

1122
01:05:19.550 --> 01:05:23.460 A:middle L:90%
think that never the torrential meter can be used.

1123
01:05:24.690 --> 01:05:30.579 A:middle L:90%
I know in any a lot of medicine, I

1124
01:05:30.579 --> 01:05:33.409 A:middle L:90%
think, is in the interpretation of the patient.

1125
01:05:34.190 --> 01:05:40.130 A:middle L:90%
The primary objective is for an individual was ill.

1126
01:05:40.139 --> 01:05:44.980 A:middle L:90%
I e. The patient, um usually determines for

1127
01:05:44.980 --> 01:05:46.860 A:middle L:90%
themselves where they're going to go higher. Do they

1128
01:05:46.860 --> 01:05:51.329 A:middle L:90%
want to arcade in Chinese acupuncture medicine that's been around

1129
01:05:51.340 --> 01:05:56.889 A:middle L:90%
for 10,000 years, Plus or chiropractic care, Or

1130
01:05:56.900 --> 01:05:59.760 A:middle L:90%
do they want to try hypnotism? Do they want

1131
01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:02.230 A:middle L:90%
to try Western medicine such as myself? Do they

1132
01:06:02.230 --> 01:06:05.130 A:middle L:90%
want to the Indian doctor? And there are many

1133
01:06:05.139 --> 01:06:08.349 A:middle L:90%
choices. Or do they want to try their own

1134
01:06:08.360 --> 01:06:13.619 A:middle L:90%
self home remedies that have been passed down from traditions

1135
01:06:13.619 --> 01:06:16.710 A:middle L:90%
of Scandinavian families or German families or other families?

1136
01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:44.219 A:middle L:90%
And it's very challenging to care for Americans. Alaska

1137
01:06:44.219 --> 01:06:49.289 A:middle L:90%
natives who come from different cultures and traditions and even

1138
01:06:49.289 --> 01:06:53.809 A:middle L:90%
within a particular tribe. There's a great variety in

1139
01:06:53.809 --> 01:06:59.769 A:middle L:90%
terms of level of culture. Traditionalism, the individual

1140
01:06:59.769 --> 01:07:01.659 A:middle L:90%
we have. And so some American Indian patients are

1141
01:07:01.659 --> 01:07:04.500 A:middle L:90%
very traditional. They don't want to come to the

1142
01:07:04.500 --> 01:07:08.550 A:middle L:90%
Indian Health service clinic unless they absolutely have to.

1143
01:07:08.550 --> 01:07:11.590 A:middle L:90%
And then they'll see their own traditional healers. And

1144
01:07:11.590 --> 01:07:15.210 A:middle L:90%
we support that. We believe in the choice of

1145
01:07:15.210 --> 01:07:16.719 A:middle L:90%
a patient to receive health care. Anyway, they

1146
01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:18.599 A:middle L:90%
want to. So if they want to go to

1147
01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:20.659 A:middle L:90%
the traditional healer, that's fine with us. If

1148
01:07:20.659 --> 01:07:23.659 A:middle L:90%
they want to come see us, that's great.

1149
01:07:23.670 --> 01:07:28.900 A:middle L:90%
We do like to partner with traditional healers and respect

1150
01:07:28.900 --> 01:07:30.369 A:middle L:90%
what they do and to encourage the patients to let

1151
01:07:30.369 --> 01:07:33.610 A:middle L:90%
us know that they're stealing, seeing there traditional healers

1152
01:07:33.610 --> 01:07:36.929 A:middle L:90%
so that we can make sure we don't do anything

1153
01:07:36.929 --> 01:07:50.710 A:middle L:90%
that will interfere with that sort of treatment, right

1154
01:07:51.079 --> 01:08:00.780 A:middle L:90%
? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes, Yes

1155
01:08:09.469 --> 01:08:25.989 A:middle L:90%
. Mhm. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah

1156
01:08:39.170 --> 01:08:55.270 A:middle L:90%
, yes. Mhm. You come up. Oh

1157
01:08:55.270 --> 01:09:16.270 A:middle L:90%
, yeah. Morning. Okay. Yes. Yeah

1158
01:09:16.770 --> 01:09:19.100 A:middle L:90%
. Had a Muslim in this family. Yeah,

1159
01:09:24.569 --> 01:09:32.890 A:middle L:90%
Okay. Okay. Way. In my research project

1160
01:09:33.270 --> 01:09:39.560 A:middle L:90%
, we had a developmental project to, um to

1161
01:09:39.569 --> 01:09:44.039 A:middle L:90%
fully develop and pilot or pretest drumming. Intervention for

1162
01:09:44.039 --> 01:09:47.619 A:middle L:90%
American Indian Alaska native substance abuse problems. Somebody must

1163
01:09:47.630 --> 01:09:49.149 A:middle L:90%
say, Well, I don't know that I'm thinking

1164
01:09:49.149 --> 01:09:55.720 A:middle L:90%
about Yes, we would expect that American Indians and

1165
01:09:55.720 --> 01:10:02.539 A:middle L:90%
Alaska natives, especially right now we actually have a

1166
01:10:02.550 --> 01:10:08.189 A:middle L:90%
grant development program developed where you make your problem and

1167
01:10:08.189 --> 01:10:12.800 A:middle L:90%
learn from the our cultural leaders on what the materials

1168
01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:15.140 A:middle L:90%
represent, what the purpose of the problem is and

1169
01:10:15.329 --> 01:10:26.100 A:middle L:90%
kind of introduce him that way. That is the

1170
01:10:26.109 --> 01:10:29.579 A:middle L:90%
strongest effect from hearing grounds from doing that. They

1171
01:10:29.579 --> 01:10:33.460 A:middle L:90%
can give a bit of both part of it's cultural

1172
01:10:33.470 --> 01:10:39.000 A:middle L:90%
benefits, meaning their ability to engage and feel good

1173
01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:41.319 A:middle L:90%
about being American analysts. And they have a charity

1174
01:10:41.319 --> 01:10:43.800 A:middle L:90%
is your self esteem. And then there's some science

1175
01:10:43.800 --> 01:10:50.069 A:middle L:90%
showing that brainwave activity is positively impacted. So alpha

1176
01:10:50.069 --> 01:10:53.800 A:middle L:90%
and beta wave brain activity is enhanced, which is

1177
01:10:53.800 --> 01:10:56.739 A:middle L:90%
what you will see, uh, in meditation and

1178
01:10:56.750 --> 01:10:59.380 A:middle L:90%
, uh, some healthier, uh, states of

1179
01:10:59.380 --> 01:11:02.239 A:middle L:90%
mind. So there is some science, although somewhat

1180
01:11:02.239 --> 01:11:04.699 A:middle L:90%
limited. But there is science showing that this can

1181
01:11:04.710 --> 01:11:10.100 A:middle L:90%
be helpful for anyone. So we know what makes

1182
01:11:10.100 --> 01:11:14.180 A:middle L:90%
use and off throughout the world open indigenous communities and

1183
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:18.399 A:middle L:90%
mainstream population. So there appears to be benefits for

1184
01:11:18.460 --> 01:11:28.079 A:middle L:90%
the human brain in general. Okay. Uh huh

1185
01:11:29.260 --> 01:11:54.250 A:middle L:90%
. Yeah. Okay. It was very common for

1186
01:11:54.260 --> 01:11:58.579 A:middle L:90%
traditional healers to be known in a certain community or

1187
01:11:58.579 --> 01:12:02.430 A:middle L:90%
certain region of land of coca. And those land

1188
01:12:02.430 --> 01:12:06.380 A:middle L:90%
divisions were traditional land divisions. And the traditional healers

1189
01:12:06.750 --> 01:12:10.869 A:middle L:90%
, um, knew how to use the plants in

1190
01:12:10.869 --> 01:12:16.770 A:middle L:90%
that region. And if a person from that area

1191
01:12:17.250 --> 01:12:21.770 A:middle L:90%
, um, lived their cultural practices even today,

1192
01:12:21.779 --> 01:12:27.180 A:middle L:90%
they would see their land, that community and their

1193
01:12:27.189 --> 01:12:31.579 A:middle L:90%
immediate family as a source of healing. Yeah,

1194
01:12:32.409 --> 01:12:35.770 A:middle L:90%
all right, I'm gonna refrain from comments because we're

1195
01:12:36.649 --> 01:12:39.399 A:middle L:90%
late on time here, but I am going to

1196
01:12:39.399 --> 01:12:42.060 A:middle L:90%
shake things up a little bit and start with Dr

1197
01:12:42.060 --> 01:12:44.989 A:middle L:90%
Hester this time and ask us from your experience.

1198
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:47.199 A:middle L:90%
Uh, you know what? Do these videos about

1199
01:12:47.199 --> 01:12:53.789 A:middle L:90%
getting any thoughts on the that zone between Western and

1200
01:12:53.789 --> 01:12:57.420 A:middle L:90%
indigenous medicine? Yeah, First, thanks for saying

1201
01:12:57.420 --> 01:13:00.039 A:middle L:90%
indigenous medicine. People I work with have a really

1202
01:13:00.039 --> 01:13:02.630 A:middle L:90%
hard time with the idea of traditional and modern first

1203
01:13:02.630 --> 01:13:08.060 A:middle L:90%
person talked about modern medicine or modern biomedicine. And

1204
01:13:08.069 --> 01:13:10.649 A:middle L:90%
you know the extent that we do that we continue

1205
01:13:10.649 --> 01:13:15.140 A:middle L:90%
to inscribe activism to indigenous traditions. So they really

1206
01:13:15.140 --> 01:13:17.380 A:middle L:90%
reject the idea of traditional more for indigenous medicine.

1207
01:13:17.750 --> 01:13:21.199 A:middle L:90%
Um, I think that there, uh, anthropologist

1208
01:13:21.199 --> 01:13:24.430 A:middle L:90%
Bonny baby who works in California. She talks about

1209
01:13:24.430 --> 01:13:27.630 A:middle L:90%
this notion of trans medicalization, which is the use

1210
01:13:27.630 --> 01:13:31.430 A:middle L:90%
basically indigenous healing methods alongside Allah, pathetic or Western

1211
01:13:31.569 --> 01:13:34.399 A:middle L:90%
medicine methods. And indeed, what we find is

1212
01:13:34.399 --> 01:13:38.130 A:middle L:90%
that many indigenous people are very pragmatic, at least

1213
01:13:38.140 --> 01:13:42.869 A:middle L:90%
with folks that I've spoken with, right one Mexico

1214
01:13:42.880 --> 01:13:45.439 A:middle L:90%
, Mexico, remote or a community health worker told

1215
01:13:45.439 --> 01:13:46.670 A:middle L:90%
me that with her daughter, she looks when her

1216
01:13:46.670 --> 01:13:49.550 A:middle L:90%
daughter has diarrhea, diarrhea, screening she'll take the

1217
01:13:49.560 --> 01:13:53.409 A:middle L:90%
She'll take the baby to go to a traditional and

1218
01:13:53.409 --> 01:13:55.729 A:middle L:90%
indigenous healer. If the diarrhea is yellow, they

1219
01:13:55.739 --> 01:13:57.869 A:middle L:90%
go to the clinic, right? So she does

1220
01:13:57.880 --> 01:14:00.470 A:middle L:90%
use both systems, and she makes her own decisions

1221
01:14:00.470 --> 01:14:02.369 A:middle L:90%
about which system she'll use based on what she understands

1222
01:14:02.369 --> 01:14:05.890 A:middle L:90%
the symptoms to be. Um, one of the

1223
01:14:05.899 --> 01:14:09.819 A:middle L:90%
second video talked about these different models that she chooses

1224
01:14:09.819 --> 01:14:12.850 A:middle L:90%
from right differently than the idea of sort of biomedicine

1225
01:14:12.850 --> 01:14:15.970 A:middle L:90%
or Chinese medicine or indigenous medicine. And and I

1226
01:14:15.970 --> 01:14:17.229 A:middle L:90%
think I would like for us to have a more

1227
01:14:17.229 --> 01:14:20.380 A:middle L:90%
critical view of that because that kind of relativism,

1228
01:14:20.390 --> 01:14:23.520 A:middle L:90%
the idea that they all kind of are equal but

1229
01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:25.079 A:middle L:90%
separate, that kind of, you know, milk

1230
01:14:25.079 --> 01:14:27.659 A:middle L:90%
, toast, multiculturalism, what I would call it

1231
01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:30.199 A:middle L:90%
um does not attend to the very different philosophical and

1232
01:14:30.199 --> 01:14:33.460 A:middle L:90%
epistemological underpinnings of these different models as well as we

1233
01:14:33.470 --> 01:14:36.369 A:middle L:90%
heard the different histories that they have behind them.

1234
01:14:36.380 --> 01:14:40.529 A:middle L:90%
And so I think that that is worth thinking about

1235
01:14:40.539 --> 01:14:43.239 A:middle L:90%
. These models are not all the same, right

1236
01:14:43.239 --> 01:14:44.949 A:middle L:90%
? Like a Disney World. It's a small world

1237
01:14:44.949 --> 01:14:47.369 A:middle L:90%
, right? They all have different backgrounds and heritages

1238
01:14:47.369 --> 01:14:51.079 A:middle L:90%
and things that they ascribe to right. And one

1239
01:14:51.079 --> 01:14:55.060 A:middle L:90%
of the things within that is that I think that

1240
01:14:55.069 --> 01:14:57.619 A:middle L:90%
at least many critical scholars of biomedicine will tell you

1241
01:14:57.619 --> 01:15:00.279 A:middle L:90%
is that Allah public medicine causes a lot of suffering

1242
01:15:00.289 --> 01:15:01.149 A:middle L:90%
, right. We talk about scoring the land,

1243
01:15:01.149 --> 01:15:03.670 A:middle L:90%
but we also talk about scoring the body and you

1244
01:15:03.670 --> 01:15:05.630 A:middle L:90%
know, all of the pharmaceuticals and all of the

1245
01:15:05.630 --> 01:15:08.630 A:middle L:90%
ways that we treat people. We cut them open

1246
01:15:08.630 --> 01:15:09.720 A:middle L:90%
, right, and we do this in a very

1247
01:15:09.720 --> 01:15:12.560 A:middle L:90%
naturalized way, is ritualized, but not in the

1248
01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:14.539 A:middle L:90%
sacred way. It's, you know, it's normalized

1249
01:15:14.539 --> 01:15:15.220 A:middle L:90%
. And so, um, you know, to

1250
01:15:15.220 --> 01:15:18.239 A:middle L:90%
think about the different models and the ways that they

1251
01:15:18.250 --> 01:15:20.350 A:middle L:90%
think about the safer and all of those things I

1252
01:15:20.350 --> 01:15:24.550 A:middle L:90%
think are worth thinking about, not in a relativist

1253
01:15:24.560 --> 01:15:30.119 A:middle L:90%
way, in terms of how we treat diseases and

1254
01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:31.729 A:middle L:90%
this idea of trans medicalization. Um, I had

1255
01:15:31.729 --> 01:15:34.909 A:middle L:90%
a recent conversation with Indigenous Leader in California, and

1256
01:15:34.909 --> 01:15:39.449 A:middle L:90%
he was talking to me about the importance about medicine

1257
01:15:39.449 --> 01:15:42.079 A:middle L:90%
to them because one of the things that they're finding

1258
01:15:42.090 --> 01:15:44.840 A:middle L:90%
indeed unsurprisingly, is that diabetes is on the rise

1259
01:15:44.840 --> 01:15:45.920 A:middle L:90%
. Diabetes? They didn't even have a mistake or

1260
01:15:45.930 --> 01:15:48.560 A:middle L:90%
three keywords for diabetes 10 years ago, and now

1261
01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:50.989 A:middle L:90%
HIV, a diabetes. All of these sort of

1262
01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:56.279 A:middle L:90%
quote unquote diseases of modernity have infused the populations.

1263
01:15:56.279 --> 01:15:58.770 A:middle L:90%
Indigenous population, especially. Not only do they are

1264
01:15:58.770 --> 01:16:00.029 A:middle L:90%
they trying to figure out their ideology where they come

1265
01:16:00.029 --> 01:16:01.529 A:middle L:90%
from, what's causing them, but how to treat

1266
01:16:01.529 --> 01:16:04.619 A:middle L:90%
them so they are increasingly turning to biomedicine. So

1267
01:16:04.619 --> 01:16:06.850 A:middle L:90%
they do see this is as important for them.

1268
01:16:08.229 --> 01:16:11.000 A:middle L:90%
Um, and finally, I just want to say

1269
01:16:11.010 --> 01:16:15.180 A:middle L:90%
again on this notion of medicine and healing and treatment

1270
01:16:15.189 --> 01:16:17.119 A:middle L:90%
, what we get in the drumming scenario, I

1271
01:16:17.119 --> 01:16:20.000 A:middle L:90%
think it's really important because, as opposed to a

1272
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:24.149 A:middle L:90%
biomedical model where something is done to the body,

1273
01:16:24.229 --> 01:16:26.670 A:middle L:90%
what we get in that model is medicine as an

1274
01:16:26.670 --> 01:16:28.699 A:middle L:90%
embodied practice, right? It is a doing.

1275
01:16:28.699 --> 01:16:30.479 A:middle L:90%
It is a being. It is a way of

1276
01:16:30.489 --> 01:16:33.229 A:middle L:90%
being right so drumming, singing, dancing, praying

1277
01:16:33.239 --> 01:16:35.569 A:middle L:90%
all of these kinds of things which are not just

1278
01:16:35.569 --> 01:16:38.989 A:middle L:90%
laying flat and some, you know, fake like

1279
01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:42.979 A:middle L:90%
plastic or paper sheet while someone probes and palpate to

1280
01:16:42.989 --> 01:16:45.270 A:middle L:90%
. It's actually out there doing and being, and

1281
01:16:45.270 --> 01:16:46.640 A:middle L:90%
we see that there's good research that shows that kind

1282
01:16:46.640 --> 01:16:49.670 A:middle L:90%
of doing and being is actually generative for health.

1283
01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:53.529 A:middle L:90%
So I think those models which we have dismissed,

1284
01:16:53.529 --> 01:16:57.489 A:middle L:90%
as you know so much like cultural backwater, actually

1285
01:16:57.489 --> 01:17:02.399 A:middle L:90%
have medicinal purposes. Doctor, Uh, yeah,

1286
01:17:02.399 --> 01:17:05.630 A:middle L:90%
I think this idea of transit medicalization is interesting.

1287
01:17:05.640 --> 01:17:09.899 A:middle L:90%
Uh, and the way I thought about that is

1288
01:17:09.909 --> 01:17:15.319 A:middle L:90%
hybrid itty, where you have a very different ecological

1289
01:17:15.319 --> 01:17:17.630 A:middle L:90%
systems being at the same time to the same to

1290
01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:19.329 A:middle L:90%
the point of talking about earlier to where you can

1291
01:17:19.329 --> 01:17:21.890 A:middle L:90%
say, this is bad land for farming. But

1292
01:17:21.890 --> 01:17:26.739 A:middle L:90%
it's still sacred. Land like those things can coexist

1293
01:17:26.750 --> 01:17:30.850 A:middle L:90%
in, uh, or they're bad ways to farm

1294
01:17:30.850 --> 01:17:31.970 A:middle L:90%
it, or there are different. There are these

1295
01:17:31.970 --> 01:17:38.050 A:middle L:90%
very seemingly contradictory ways of looking at the world where

1296
01:17:38.329 --> 01:17:40.479 A:middle L:90%
you know, the kind of knowledge that additional people

1297
01:17:40.479 --> 01:17:44.170 A:middle L:90%
have had over millennia have been marginalized. They've been

1298
01:17:44.180 --> 01:17:46.409 A:middle L:90%
called backwards primitive, and they've been said that they

1299
01:17:46.420 --> 01:17:50.489 A:middle L:90%
had no value to where a lot of times people

1300
01:17:50.489 --> 01:17:55.720 A:middle L:90%
have really strong beliefs about things that do work in

1301
01:17:55.720 --> 01:17:58.460 A:middle L:90%
terms of medicine and healing. But they won't admit

1302
01:17:58.460 --> 01:18:01.239 A:middle L:90%
necessarily that they use them like one thing that's really

1303
01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:04.250 A:middle L:90%
common in the communities that worked, and it takes

1304
01:18:04.250 --> 01:18:06.850 A:middle L:90%
a long time to hear about. It is witchcraft

1305
01:18:08.319 --> 01:18:11.880 A:middle L:90%
, you know, Western medicine. We'll tell you

1306
01:18:11.890 --> 01:18:14.460 A:middle L:90%
what juror made you sick, but it won't tell

1307
01:18:14.460 --> 01:18:16.260 A:middle L:90%
you why it happened to you, right? It

1308
01:18:16.260 --> 01:18:18.510 A:middle L:90%
doesn't tell you that doesn't give those kind of answers

1309
01:18:18.510 --> 01:18:21.189 A:middle L:90%
where a lot of native traditions that are more that

1310
01:18:21.189 --> 01:18:25.250 A:middle L:90%
our holistic in the sense that it's related to some

1311
01:18:25.250 --> 01:18:27.489 A:middle L:90%
kind of imbalance, right. But it's related to

1312
01:18:27.489 --> 01:18:30.770 A:middle L:90%
something and that it's a social reality that's causing it

1313
01:18:30.770 --> 01:18:33.050 A:middle L:90%
so that in many cases people will go to the

1314
01:18:33.050 --> 01:18:36.920 A:middle L:90%
doctor to get an injection or they'll or they'll get

1315
01:18:36.930 --> 01:18:41.050 A:middle L:90%
a uh like they'll take some tea. They usually

1316
01:18:41.050 --> 01:18:45.010 A:middle L:90%
start with traditional medicine because it's familiar because it often

1317
01:18:45.020 --> 01:18:49.619 A:middle L:90%
works really well because it is really inexpensive. You

1318
01:18:49.630 --> 01:18:51.829 A:middle L:90%
and you know you can go. Go grab me

1319
01:18:51.829 --> 01:18:55.510 A:middle L:90%
this urban, this urban, this urban this herb

1320
01:18:55.520 --> 01:18:58.390 A:middle L:90%
and it's shocking the level of knowledge that people have

1321
01:18:58.390 --> 01:19:00.880 A:middle L:90%
about all the variety of herbs in their in their

1322
01:19:00.880 --> 01:19:03.550 A:middle L:90%
village, and they'll make cheese for different kinds of

1323
01:19:03.560 --> 01:19:06.380 A:middle L:90%
things, and it's free right in effect. So

1324
01:19:06.380 --> 01:19:09.390 A:middle L:90%
that's one reason. But people. Then we'll go

1325
01:19:09.390 --> 01:19:11.640 A:middle L:90%
to the doctor and get a treatment. But then

1326
01:19:11.640 --> 01:19:13.039 A:middle L:90%
there are certain cases. Well, okay, well

1327
01:19:13.039 --> 01:19:15.020 A:middle L:90%
, this isn't like a regular sickness. This is

1328
01:19:15.020 --> 01:19:17.380 A:middle L:90%
witchcraft, like things well, or this is something

1329
01:19:17.380 --> 01:19:19.500 A:middle L:90%
is going on. And I need to find a

1330
01:19:19.510 --> 01:19:23.229 A:middle L:90%
different kind of healer if people don't want to talk

1331
01:19:23.229 --> 01:19:26.470 A:middle L:90%
about that to a lot of outsiders because they're going

1332
01:19:26.470 --> 01:19:28.420 A:middle L:90%
to be told that there's, you know, that

1333
01:19:28.420 --> 01:19:31.600 A:middle L:90%
there's being superstitious, that they themselves are participating in

1334
01:19:31.670 --> 01:19:34.529 A:middle L:90%
witchcraft. And these are people that are, you

1335
01:19:34.529 --> 01:19:38.960 A:middle L:90%
know, many Catholics or Protestants. But they participate

1336
01:19:38.960 --> 01:19:43.300 A:middle L:90%
in kinds of healing that that and it approaches to

1337
01:19:43.300 --> 01:19:45.640 A:middle L:90%
medicine that are, and it's very contradictory. It

1338
01:19:45.640 --> 01:19:47.189 A:middle L:90%
seems like, Well, if you believe that,

1339
01:19:47.199 --> 01:19:49.649 A:middle L:90%
why would you do this? But if you believe

1340
01:19:49.649 --> 01:19:54.529 A:middle L:90%
that diarrhea is caused by you know one thing where

1341
01:19:54.529 --> 01:19:57.970 A:middle L:90%
germs or viruses or bacteria, then why wouldn't you

1342
01:19:57.979 --> 01:20:03.229 A:middle L:90%
always see that these are really complicated implicated knowledge systems

1343
01:20:03.229 --> 01:20:08.310 A:middle L:90%
that people inhabit? multiple ones at the same time

1344
01:20:08.319 --> 01:20:10.050 A:middle L:90%
. And I think that's something that, you know

1345
01:20:10.050 --> 01:20:12.829 A:middle L:90%
, indigenous people and colonized people have had to deal

1346
01:20:12.829 --> 01:20:15.779 A:middle L:90%
with and in position of forms of knowledge on top

1347
01:20:15.779 --> 01:20:18.210 A:middle L:90%
of them that have value of different forms. You

1348
01:20:18.210 --> 01:20:21.670 A:middle L:90%
know, Uh and I think that's yeah, I'll

1349
01:20:21.670 --> 01:20:25.539 A:middle L:90%
stop at that point. But, uh huh,

1350
01:20:26.210 --> 01:20:33.229 A:middle L:90%
$100. Um, it's really interesting looking at the

1351
01:20:33.609 --> 01:20:38.100 A:middle L:90%
biomedicine industry. If you will driven a lot by

1352
01:20:38.100 --> 01:20:41.300 A:middle L:90%
a big farm, what kind of drugs can they

1353
01:20:41.310 --> 01:20:44.420 A:middle L:90%
patent and sell? Um, it's difficult for them

1354
01:20:44.420 --> 01:20:46.890 A:middle L:90%
to use herbs and patent those and make money at

1355
01:20:46.890 --> 01:20:49.609 A:middle L:90%
them because everybody can grow them. A good case

1356
01:20:49.609 --> 01:20:53.439 A:middle L:90%
in point is marijuana, for example. Um,

1357
01:20:53.449 --> 01:20:56.750 A:middle L:90%
you can grow that, and they have trouble synthesizing

1358
01:20:56.750 --> 01:21:00.220 A:middle L:90%
it. They have some synthesized chemicals, but they

1359
01:21:00.220 --> 01:21:03.409 A:middle L:90%
don't work like the native plant. Um, why

1360
01:21:03.409 --> 01:21:05.560 A:middle L:90%
isn't it being researched more? We can debate that

1361
01:21:05.569 --> 01:21:08.119 A:middle L:90%
until the cows come home, but the problem is

1362
01:21:08.119 --> 01:21:10.189 A:middle L:90%
, is that you can't make money off of it

1363
01:21:10.189 --> 01:21:12.479 A:middle L:90%
. Therefore, you're not going to do a big

1364
01:21:12.479 --> 01:21:15.220 A:middle L:90%
farm is not gonna posture that type of research.

1365
01:21:15.229 --> 01:21:17.060 A:middle L:90%
It's also the kind of think spring boarding off of

1366
01:21:17.060 --> 01:21:18.970 A:middle L:90%
what the comment was made. I think Rebecca had

1367
01:21:18.970 --> 01:21:23.350 A:middle L:90%
mentioned this about Grant. Um, you might have

1368
01:21:23.350 --> 01:21:26.989 A:middle L:90%
a good idea, and it's a very plausible idea

1369
01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:29.279 A:middle L:90%
, but if it goes against convention, it's not

1370
01:21:29.279 --> 01:21:31.100 A:middle L:90%
gonna get funded. It's just not gonna get funded

1371
01:21:31.100 --> 01:21:33.890 A:middle L:90%
. Therefore, they're going to follow along like all

1372
01:21:33.890 --> 01:21:36.449 A:middle L:90%
of us do. We take the drugs that are

1373
01:21:36.449 --> 01:21:39.100 A:middle L:90%
being on the market, and that's what we use

1374
01:21:39.100 --> 01:21:41.250 A:middle L:90%
in our animal models, because that's what we're going

1375
01:21:41.250 --> 01:21:43.479 A:middle L:90%
to get funded with. If we have this idea

1376
01:21:43.489 --> 01:21:46.529 A:middle L:90%
of wow, some natural remedy may be beneficial.

1377
01:21:46.909 --> 01:21:48.699 A:middle L:90%
That's not going to get funny, or it's gonna

1378
01:21:48.699 --> 01:21:50.920 A:middle L:90%
be really super challenging to get funded. So you

1379
01:21:50.920 --> 01:21:57.159 A:middle L:90%
have this stifling of changing the society or the medical

1380
01:21:57.159 --> 01:22:00.020 A:middle L:90%
profession to even want to do those type of things

1381
01:22:00.399 --> 01:22:01.010 A:middle L:90%
. And then you've got the research and so on

1382
01:22:01.010 --> 01:22:03.220 A:middle L:90%
and so forth that shows, you know, sometimes

1383
01:22:03.229 --> 01:22:05.930 A:middle L:90%
positively that you have benefits. But it's just the

1384
01:22:05.930 --> 01:22:09.680 A:middle L:90%
idea of shifting that mentality. Everybody is stuck in

1385
01:22:09.680 --> 01:22:13.180 A:middle L:90%
that mentality, and it's really, really a challenge

1386
01:22:13.180 --> 01:22:15.789 A:middle L:90%
to move people from that mentality of what they've known

1387
01:22:15.789 --> 01:22:19.720 A:middle L:90%
has been funded and or will get funded and what

1388
01:22:20.300 --> 01:22:24.899 A:middle L:90%
drives your labs. And it's just really ashamed that

1389
01:22:24.899 --> 01:22:29.649 A:middle L:90%
the openness for alternative approaches is really kind of quote

1390
01:22:29.649 --> 01:22:31.750 A:middle L:90%
unquote poo pooed on because they just don't understand it

1391
01:22:31.760 --> 01:22:35.909 A:middle L:90%
. And that's the most difficult thing that these researchers

1392
01:22:35.909 --> 01:22:41.359 A:middle L:90%
face is trying to do something to institute positive outcomes

1393
01:22:41.369 --> 01:22:43.659 A:middle L:90%
, and you're just not gonna be able to make

1394
01:22:43.659 --> 01:22:45.729 A:middle L:90%
those. So what a lot of us do is

1395
01:22:45.729 --> 01:22:46.510 A:middle L:90%
those are side projects. And then you find the

1396
01:22:46.520 --> 01:22:48.840 A:middle L:90%
problem is where you're going to publish that at the

1397
01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:51.520 A:middle L:90%
journals, the scientific journals. If I go to

1398
01:22:51.520 --> 01:22:55.500 A:middle L:90%
the top tier journal Nature, science or any of

1399
01:22:55.500 --> 01:22:58.420 A:middle L:90%
those. And I have this herb that I give

1400
01:22:58.420 --> 01:23:01.220 A:middle L:90%
to this rat and it cures them of some ailment

1401
01:23:01.220 --> 01:23:04.600 A:middle L:90%
that may or may not be like a disorder like

1402
01:23:04.609 --> 01:23:11.180 A:middle L:90%
depression or anxiety or diabetes or anything like that,

1403
01:23:11.180 --> 01:23:13.659 A:middle L:90%
and I go to publish that no one is going

1404
01:23:13.659 --> 01:23:15.560 A:middle L:90%
to accept that they just aren't going to do that

1405
01:23:15.569 --> 01:23:17.720 A:middle L:90%
. They're going to tell me what our target affects

1406
01:23:17.729 --> 01:23:20.470 A:middle L:90%
, what kind of compounds that they're going to make

1407
01:23:20.470 --> 01:23:24.920 A:middle L:90%
me go and just slew of stuff, money,

1408
01:23:24.930 --> 01:23:28.020 A:middle L:90%
money, money to show what this substance is,

1409
01:23:28.600 --> 01:23:31.109 A:middle L:90%
and then it's more of like they're still not gonna

1410
01:23:31.109 --> 01:23:34.199 A:middle L:90%
accept they just don't accept those things. So what

1411
01:23:34.199 --> 01:23:36.260 A:middle L:90%
do we do? Those are people like me.

1412
01:23:36.260 --> 01:23:39.239 A:middle L:90%
They want to get tenure. We want to publish

1413
01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:41.449 A:middle L:90%
. So are we gonna be gutsy and move that

1414
01:23:41.449 --> 01:23:43.949 A:middle L:90%
direction? Heck, no. We're gonna stay with

1415
01:23:43.960 --> 01:23:45.960 A:middle L:90%
what we're gonna do to get published, and then

1416
01:23:45.960 --> 01:23:46.760 A:middle L:90%
we can get tenure, and then you see these

1417
01:23:46.760 --> 01:23:49.270 A:middle L:90%
other types of things Come on. But it's still

1418
01:23:49.279 --> 01:23:51.460 A:middle L:90%
it's still debatable, and no one's going to reference

1419
01:23:51.460 --> 01:23:54.340 A:middle L:90%
it. And it just won't get those journals so

1420
01:23:54.340 --> 01:23:56.409 A:middle L:90%
it won't get on TV. And if it doesn't

1421
01:23:56.409 --> 01:24:00.279 A:middle L:90%
get on TV and it's gonna be squashed away and

1422
01:24:00.279 --> 01:24:03.340 A:middle L:90%
you and that's what's gonna be perpetuated because I give

1423
01:24:03.340 --> 01:24:08.710 A:middle L:90%
this SS ri and it helps depression and boom.

1424
01:24:08.720 --> 01:24:10.930 A:middle L:90%
There you go. Oh, this new compound that

1425
01:24:10.930 --> 01:24:15.260 A:middle L:90%
has a serotonin selective re uptake inhibitor works for depression

1426
01:24:15.270 --> 01:24:15.909 A:middle L:90%
, and that gets in there and you'll be on

1427
01:24:15.909 --> 01:24:18.300 A:middle L:90%
TV. Something else just won't get on it.

1428
01:24:18.300 --> 01:24:21.000 A:middle L:90%
So it's just the yin and yang push back about

1429
01:24:21.010 --> 01:24:28.510 A:middle L:90%
openness and receptiveness versus the status quo. They hide

1430
01:24:28.890 --> 01:24:30.600 A:middle L:90%
. Uh, gosh, there's a lot to talk

1431
01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:31.149 A:middle L:90%
about. I'm not sure it'll come out clear,

1432
01:24:31.159 --> 01:24:36.920 A:middle L:90%
but colonization to me, uh, start this like

1433
01:24:38.489 --> 01:24:42.319 A:middle L:90%
like it's it's done for the purpose of exploitation.

1434
01:24:42.319 --> 01:24:44.720 A:middle L:90%
It's not just about resources, it's about people.

1435
01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:48.479 A:middle L:90%
The oppressor or the colonizer colonized all the everything around

1436
01:24:48.479 --> 01:24:51.609 A:middle L:90%
there. And it's on this trajectory that causes trauma

1437
01:24:51.619 --> 01:24:55.649 A:middle L:90%
, the environment. All the people involved, every

1438
01:24:55.659 --> 01:24:58.909 A:middle L:90%
piece of everything that's involved. And I believe that

1439
01:24:58.909 --> 01:25:00.310 A:middle L:90%
trauma is a normal part of life, right.

1440
01:25:00.890 --> 01:25:05.220 A:middle L:90%
But from what I understand, our is that there

1441
01:25:05.220 --> 01:25:09.250 A:middle L:90%
is a trauma and you grow from that. Whereas

1442
01:25:09.250 --> 01:25:12.260 A:middle L:90%
a lot of this linear trajectory and colonization is,

1443
01:25:12.260 --> 01:25:15.659 A:middle L:90%
there's a trauma which leads to not unification and support

1444
01:25:15.670 --> 01:25:18.170 A:middle L:90%
, but this alienation. So if you're a person

1445
01:25:18.170 --> 01:25:20.550 A:middle L:90%
, you end up very alone and having to like

1446
01:25:20.560 --> 01:25:24.420 A:middle L:90%
, mind your own soul until there's nothing left,

1447
01:25:25.460 --> 01:25:30.510 A:middle L:90%
whereas the trauma, uh, from from my perspective

1448
01:25:30.520 --> 01:25:32.699 A:middle L:90%
should be. And this is where you're talking about

1449
01:25:32.699 --> 01:25:35.310 A:middle L:90%
different kinds of medicine is people come around you.

1450
01:25:35.789 --> 01:25:41.409 A:middle L:90%
They they they empower you again and then you move

1451
01:25:41.409 --> 01:25:44.800 A:middle L:90%
forward and you grow from that. And so within

1452
01:25:45.590 --> 01:25:48.819 A:middle L:90%
what I we have a word for something that because

1453
01:25:48.819 --> 01:25:51.079 A:middle L:90%
if we become alienated through some sort of damage to

1454
01:25:51.079 --> 01:25:54.350 A:middle L:90%
that, So even in the school that I work

1455
01:25:54.359 --> 01:25:58.109 A:middle L:90%
with in New Mexico, um the kids are taught

1456
01:25:58.489 --> 01:26:00.439 A:middle L:90%
, like how to wake up in the morning and

1457
01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:03.010 A:middle L:90%
put on like a protective layer. And it's like

1458
01:26:03.010 --> 01:26:04.600 A:middle L:90%
So I'm going to go out into the world and

1459
01:26:04.600 --> 01:26:08.979 A:middle L:90%
I'm I'm doing my best to protect me from any

1460
01:26:08.979 --> 01:26:12.310 A:middle L:90%
sort of injuries. Anything could be words from another

1461
01:26:12.310 --> 01:26:14.989 A:middle L:90%
person. It could be contamination. It could be

1462
01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:17.619 A:middle L:90%
. And I'm going into the world to protect me

1463
01:26:17.630 --> 01:26:21.829 A:middle L:90%
and my wellness so that my wellness can exude out

1464
01:26:21.829 --> 01:26:26.380 A:middle L:90%
of me and protect those around. So it's It's

1465
01:26:26.380 --> 01:26:30.569 A:middle L:90%
this community orientation towards wellness rather than this alienation.

1466
01:26:30.569 --> 01:26:31.369 A:middle L:90%
And so that's where it came in with the drumming

1467
01:26:31.369 --> 01:26:34.250 A:middle L:90%
I thought is and you were talking about earlier about

1468
01:26:34.250 --> 01:26:40.130 A:middle L:90%
how there's so many ways people are eroded or even

1469
01:26:40.130 --> 01:26:42.779 A:middle L:90%
in the research track, like how you like,

1470
01:26:42.779 --> 01:26:45.250 A:middle L:90%
How long are we dissociated from all these systematic things

1471
01:26:45.250 --> 01:26:48.899 A:middle L:90%
until we're just putting band aids on stuff? And

1472
01:26:49.680 --> 01:26:54.649 A:middle L:90%
where we need to go is from from like not

1473
01:26:54.649 --> 01:27:00.369 A:middle L:90%
stay in this quadrant reductionist, hierarchical thinking. But

1474
01:27:00.380 --> 01:27:03.100 A:middle L:90%
we might have to move that from two a reductionist

1475
01:27:03.479 --> 01:27:06.550 A:middle L:90%
non hierarchical where we are putting on band AIDS for

1476
01:27:06.550 --> 01:27:12.090 A:middle L:90%
a minute, up to a systematic, non hierarchical

1477
01:27:12.090 --> 01:27:15.460 A:middle L:90%
system where we're and that's where it's How much time

1478
01:27:15.460 --> 01:27:16.060 A:middle L:90%
do we have? Do we have enough time to

1479
01:27:16.069 --> 01:27:17.859 A:middle L:90%
do that? Are we so stuck in our ways

1480
01:27:17.859 --> 01:27:21.710 A:middle L:90%
that we can't do that anymore? How do we

1481
01:27:23.579 --> 01:27:29.250 A:middle L:90%
abandon this track of like like, uh, like

1482
01:27:29.260 --> 01:27:32.029 A:middle L:90%
, whittling down ourselves until we feel like we like

1483
01:27:32.039 --> 01:27:35.569 A:middle L:90%
, I believe that, uh, meritocracy independence.

1484
01:27:35.569 --> 01:27:39.000 A:middle L:90%
Those things are toxic to us. So when he

1485
01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:41.989 A:middle L:90%
was talking about drumming and coming together and sources of

1486
01:27:41.989 --> 01:27:45.409 A:middle L:90%
medicine and how we I think, Well, this

1487
01:27:45.409 --> 01:27:46.989 A:middle L:90%
is a source of energy. People ask me all

1488
01:27:46.989 --> 01:27:48.380 A:middle L:90%
the time like, you know, I'm so glad

1489
01:27:48.380 --> 01:27:50.500 A:middle L:90%
you called me. You know, that's my whole

1490
01:27:50.500 --> 01:27:53.869 A:middle L:90%
day is new and improved. And so, like

1491
01:27:53.869 --> 01:27:54.880 A:middle L:90%
, they were like, Where does that energy come

1492
01:27:54.880 --> 01:27:56.350 A:middle L:90%
from? I was like, I like I'm like

1493
01:27:56.350 --> 01:27:57.720 A:middle L:90%
a hamster. And well, I went for a

1494
01:27:57.720 --> 01:27:59.630 A:middle L:90%
run. I ate good food. I did that

1495
01:27:59.630 --> 01:28:00.689 A:middle L:90%
stuff. Now I'm ready to like My wellness is

1496
01:28:00.689 --> 01:28:03.210 A:middle L:90%
protected. I'm ready to radiate all that energy out

1497
01:28:03.220 --> 01:28:05.010 A:middle L:90%
. So I'm my own power source and people get

1498
01:28:05.010 --> 01:28:08.220 A:middle L:90%
powered off me. And and I'm not trying to

1499
01:28:08.220 --> 01:28:09.750 A:middle L:90%
, like, put myself in a hierarchy. I

1500
01:28:09.750 --> 01:28:13.279 A:middle L:90%
just can only speak from my own experience. So

1501
01:28:13.770 --> 01:28:15.020 A:middle L:90%
, you know, whatever it is that helps people

1502
01:28:15.020 --> 01:28:17.659 A:middle L:90%
. My brother got sick. Uh, like,

1503
01:28:17.659 --> 01:28:19.060 A:middle L:90%
I come from the most beautiful place, but they

1504
01:28:19.060 --> 01:28:21.100 A:middle L:90%
put it down, wind from down. So our

1505
01:28:21.100 --> 01:28:24.880 A:middle L:90%
water got dirty, our air got dirty, and

1506
01:28:24.890 --> 01:28:28.420 A:middle L:90%
it was a genocide IQ. If that's a Genesis

1507
01:28:28.420 --> 01:28:30.819 A:middle L:90%
Civic Act. Yeah, like, um, like

1508
01:28:30.819 --> 01:28:36.859 A:middle L:90%
it affected boys. Wow. Disproportionately. So very

1509
01:28:36.859 --> 01:28:41.920 A:middle L:90%
few kids were born. Then it was less males

1510
01:28:41.930 --> 01:28:44.500 A:middle L:90%
. And then they put in these other clauses that

1511
01:28:45.069 --> 01:28:49.800 A:middle L:90%
prevented, uh, like maintaining status if you couldn't

1512
01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:54.310 A:middle L:90%
marry someone from within your tribe or so but there's

1513
01:28:54.310 --> 01:28:56.930 A:middle L:90%
no males. So then there's no more treaties that

1514
01:28:56.930 --> 01:28:58.949 A:middle L:90%
need to be honored. There's no more anything.

1515
01:28:58.960 --> 01:29:02.890 A:middle L:90%
You know, It's, um and so, like

1516
01:29:02.899 --> 01:29:05.810 A:middle L:90%
, we look too well. How did my brother's

1517
01:29:05.819 --> 01:29:10.409 A:middle L:90%
protection become weakened? Like, how how did we

1518
01:29:10.409 --> 01:29:12.020 A:middle L:90%
need to build it up? And also, my

1519
01:29:12.020 --> 01:29:15.520 A:middle L:90%
brother became sterilized through the experimental treatments that he was

1520
01:29:15.520 --> 01:29:16.539 A:middle L:90%
subjected to, you know, So even though he

1521
01:29:16.550 --> 01:29:21.010 A:middle L:90%
could grow up, Um, so and my mother

1522
01:29:21.010 --> 01:29:24.600 A:middle L:90%
is very much about the preventative medicine like we're talking

1523
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:25.949 A:middle L:90%
about. Like if I say that I don't feel

1524
01:29:25.949 --> 01:29:27.210 A:middle L:90%
good, she feels to be good. Did you

1525
01:29:27.210 --> 01:29:28.989 A:middle L:90%
exercise? Did you sweat it out? Did you

1526
01:29:29.369 --> 01:29:30.590 A:middle L:90%
? What have you done? Like How have you

1527
01:29:30.590 --> 01:29:35.180 A:middle L:90%
How How have you let down your protection to allow

1528
01:29:35.670 --> 01:29:41.020 A:middle L:90%
something into you? And it's not always a sickness

1529
01:29:41.029 --> 01:29:44.399 A:middle L:90%
like a germ sometimes, and we call it a

1530
01:29:44.399 --> 01:29:45.140 A:middle L:90%
windy go. It's like when there's when there's a

1531
01:29:45.149 --> 01:29:47.970 A:middle L:90%
parasitic spirit that comes in. Sometimes it's alcoholism or

1532
01:29:47.970 --> 01:29:50.100 A:middle L:90%
something like that, like your guard has been let

1533
01:29:50.109 --> 01:29:53.729 A:middle L:90%
let down. Something comes into you and it starts

1534
01:29:53.729 --> 01:29:58.289 A:middle L:90%
to take over your wellness, your whole action and

1535
01:29:59.069 --> 01:30:01.220 A:middle L:90%
doing. You can't radio your radio your energy out

1536
01:30:01.229 --> 01:30:04.569 A:middle L:90%
into the world. Okay? And again, it's

1537
01:30:04.569 --> 01:30:08.520 A:middle L:90%
about a whole system. It's not you. It's

1538
01:30:08.529 --> 01:30:15.180 A:middle L:90%
it's whole system of hoops that keep that support everything

1539
01:30:15.359 --> 01:30:18.449 A:middle L:90%
all the time, and none of it can be

1540
01:30:18.449 --> 01:30:24.279 A:middle L:90%
dropped. Well, this has been an excellent,

1541
01:30:24.289 --> 01:30:26.909 A:middle L:90%
excellent panel, and we're way over time. But

1542
01:30:26.909 --> 01:30:28.880 A:middle L:90%
there's so few of us in the room. I

1543
01:30:28.880 --> 01:30:30.060 A:middle L:90%
I just want to invite you to come and converse

1544
01:30:30.060 --> 01:30:33.909 A:middle L:90%
with our Panelists afterwards. Um, because I'm sure

1545
01:30:33.909 --> 01:30:36.710 A:middle L:90%
they would be happy to. They like to talk

1546
01:30:36.720 --> 01:30:39.449 A:middle L:90%
. There are good people, and this has been

1547
01:30:39.460 --> 01:30:41.619 A:middle L:90%
great. So thank thank you so much. Thank

1548
01:30:41.619 --> 01:30:46.949 A:middle L:90%
you, uh, big role? Uh huh.

1549
01:30:47.560 --> 01:30:55.210 A:middle L:90%
Oh, Uh huh. Thank you. One more

1550
01:30:55.210 --> 01:30:59.449 A:middle L:90%
time on that. The library. And, um

1551
01:30:59.460 --> 01:31:02.890 A:middle L:90%
also our partner in Roanoke, Virginia, type school

1552
01:31:02.890 --> 01:31:05.319 A:middle L:90%
of medicine. I hope that in the future,

1553
01:31:05.319 --> 01:31:09.659 A:middle L:90%
we might be able to plan something. Perhaps some

1554
01:31:09.670 --> 01:31:15.189 A:middle L:90%
technology, but thank you so much. Okay.