WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.540 --> 00:00:04.280 A:middle L:90% Okay, what was your name again? You told 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:08.189 A:middle L:90% me? And josh josh josh Joshua, Joshua Tunick 3 00:00:08.189 --> 00:00:12.130 A:middle L:90% You know I was missing getting 4 00:00:12.130 --> 00:00:13.880 A:middle L:90% them first and last names. Got mixed up right 5 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:24.199 A:middle L:90% there. Think we're good to go and then so 6 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:28.440 A:middle L:90% basically I'm going to ask you some questions and yeah 7 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:33.630 A:middle L:90% , most likely just let you go when you start 8 00:00:33.630 --> 00:00:39.289 A:middle L:90% talking about something underneath. Super focused. That's fine 9 00:00:39.369 --> 00:00:41.320 A:middle L:90% . That's fine. Just so it's just a free 10 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.250 A:middle L:90% for an interview. Yeah. And I got myself 11 00:00:44.250 --> 00:00:46.530 A:middle L:90% out of this. So if I ask you a 12 00:00:46.530 --> 00:00:49.259 A:middle L:90% question, like when did you come here? You 13 00:00:49.259 --> 00:00:51.829 A:middle L:90% wouldn't say a year. You'd say I came here 14 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:56.380 A:middle L:90% . Right, right, just look at me, 15 00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:58.420 A:middle L:90% don't look at the camera. We're in good shape 16 00:00:58.429 --> 00:01:00.869 A:middle L:90% . Okay, so why don't we start with that 17 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:06.060 A:middle L:90% when you're history with the school college? Well, 18 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:11.040 A:middle L:90% I started In architecture in September of 1966 as a 19 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.189 A:middle L:90% 17 year old freshman. Uh very very naive kind 20 00:01:15.189 --> 00:01:18.400 A:middle L:90% of guy actually. We're in the old high school 21 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:22.890 A:middle L:90% building which is now I think the architectural antiques a 22 00:01:22.900 --> 00:01:30.750 A:middle L:90% very exciting an intoxicating place. Great professors, great 23 00:01:30.750 --> 00:01:34.359 A:middle L:90% students, a lot of interest in an enormous amount 24 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:41.040 A:middle L:90% of energy. And who was Burchard there yet? 25 00:01:41.049 --> 00:01:42.780 A:middle L:90% Burchard was dean. I'm not even sure where the 26 00:01:42.780 --> 00:01:47.310 A:middle L:90% dean's office was. It's not some place that we 27 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.689 A:middle L:90% normally addressed. So the what we call the old 28 00:01:49.689 --> 00:01:53.599 A:middle L:90% high school building was our base of operations. Are 29 00:01:53.599 --> 00:02:00.209 A:middle L:90% home 24 7. Pretty much 24 7 new professors 30 00:02:00.370 --> 00:02:04.719 A:middle L:90% . Olivia Ferrari, Herbert Cromwell, Ascherman and Peter 31 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:07.769 A:middle L:90% Green I believe were the four first year professors at 32 00:02:07.769 --> 00:02:09.439 A:middle L:90% the time that I started, Herbert Cromwell was my 33 00:02:09.449 --> 00:02:13.979 A:middle L:90% professor and I still talked with Herbert Cromwell occasionally. 34 00:02:13.979 --> 00:02:16.500 A:middle L:90% I saw him a couple of years ago. I've 35 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:20.729 A:middle L:90% emailed him a couple of times but since then but 36 00:02:20.740 --> 00:02:22.349 A:middle L:90% he hasn't been back to the U. S. 37 00:02:22.349 --> 00:02:25.259 A:middle L:90% I don't believe since that time probably you really you 38 00:02:25.259 --> 00:02:30.240 A:middle L:90% hit it just right. You came with the people 39 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:31.930 A:middle L:90% that would really shake things up. Yeah. This 40 00:02:31.939 --> 00:02:35.770 A:middle L:90% uh I think I was the kind of sucking first 41 00:02:35.770 --> 00:02:38.060 A:middle L:90% or second class. I think uh I think the 42 00:02:38.060 --> 00:02:40.000 A:middle L:90% team had been here either. It's really uncertain. 43 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:43.310 A:middle L:90% They would never really reveal how long they had been 44 00:02:43.310 --> 00:02:45.770 A:middle L:90% here at the time. I think there was a 45 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:50.110 A:middle L:90% mystery around. Oh how far really they might have 46 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:52.949 A:middle L:90% been even ahead of us. They might have been 47 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:54.659 A:middle L:90% learning just as we were learning about some of the 48 00:02:55.139 --> 00:02:59.159 A:middle L:90% concepts, ideas and strategies which they were promoting. 49 00:02:59.539 --> 00:03:05.169 A:middle L:90% But it was a a discovery oriented group of faculty 50 00:03:05.210 --> 00:03:08.270 A:middle L:90% and a an energetic group of students who are intent 51 00:03:08.270 --> 00:03:10.120 A:middle L:90% on learning and pursuing a lot of past. It 52 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:12.569 A:middle L:90% was quite a bit of freedom in the past. 53 00:03:12.569 --> 00:03:15.349 A:middle L:90% You can pursue it. Did you feel like the 54 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:19.349 A:middle L:90% program is kind of finding itself finally, we're here 55 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:24.469 A:middle L:90% in reflection maybe when I when in reflection I would 56 00:03:24.469 --> 00:03:30.009 A:middle L:90% think that the program was just developing its groundings and 57 00:03:30.009 --> 00:03:34.229 A:middle L:90% it's it's founding basis. I believe it came and 58 00:03:34.229 --> 00:03:38.449 A:middle L:90% started with some strategies that came out of the bauhaus 59 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:44.000 A:middle L:90% came exploring a variety of media, a not only 60 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.509 A:middle L:90% a cerebral approach but also a physical approach. Trying 61 00:03:46.509 --> 00:03:50.889 A:middle L:90% to understand how pieces and parts of things inter relate 62 00:03:50.889 --> 00:03:55.099 A:middle L:90% dina relationships and then the subsequent explorations into those discoveries 63 00:03:55.099 --> 00:03:59.009 A:middle L:90% as you work your way through setting your own problems 64 00:03:59.009 --> 00:04:03.430 A:middle L:90% and then solving your own problems. Uh So so 65 00:04:03.430 --> 00:04:06.879 A:middle L:90% you Coco was built by 68. I'm not exactly 66 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:11.080 A:middle L:90% sure when Kobe was built maybe 68, 70 72 67 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.479 A:middle L:90% , somewhere along the time. So you didn't have 68 00:04:13.490 --> 00:04:15.629 A:middle L:90% classes in COBOL? Uh not at the time, 69 00:04:15.629 --> 00:04:18.120 A:middle L:90% not in my first two years. In my later 70 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:19.910 A:middle L:90% years, I had some time ago I had a 71 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:26.100 A:middle L:90% gap interruption between 69, 70 and 75. So 72 00:04:26.100 --> 00:04:30.769 A:middle L:90% I took five years off to find myself. It 73 00:04:30.769 --> 00:04:33.850 A:middle L:90% was the program was responsible for that. It was 74 00:04:33.850 --> 00:04:42.170 A:middle L:90% a combination of combination of economics. Mhm. The 75 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:46.589 A:middle L:90% late 60s, the opportunities and the discoveries that I 76 00:04:46.589 --> 00:04:50.519 A:middle L:90% wish to make outside of academia. And I did 77 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:55.410 A:middle L:90% not quite have the discipline for sustained continuation of the 78 00:04:55.410 --> 00:04:59.610 A:middle L:90% academic program. Either financially or mentally and even physically 79 00:04:59.610 --> 00:05:00.949 A:middle L:90% , I just wanted to do some other things. 80 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:09.589 A:middle L:90% I completely understand. Great. So so the film 81 00:05:09.589 --> 00:05:12.949 A:middle L:90% is the focus going in and we'll see what it 82 00:05:12.949 --> 00:05:14.990 A:middle L:90% ends up being. The focus going in is really 83 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:16.709 A:middle L:90% sort of the beginning of the film is this periods 84 00:05:16.709 --> 00:05:23.009 A:middle L:90% are up to that. No pre burgeon Ferrari where 85 00:05:23.019 --> 00:05:26.370 A:middle L:90% you know the school architecture came out of engineering and 86 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:29.279 A:middle L:90% all of that. Yeah. And then the middle 87 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:31.040 A:middle L:90% part is really this time that you were here. 88 00:05:31.540 --> 00:05:36.360 A:middle L:90% Virgin Ferrari and and a problem and all these guys 89 00:05:38.540 --> 00:05:41.009 A:middle L:90% . And then the last part is really gonna be 90 00:05:41.019 --> 00:05:43.750 A:middle L:90% where things are right now, projecting into the future 91 00:05:44.139 --> 00:05:47.689 A:middle L:90% . You're in a really unique position to really talk 92 00:05:47.689 --> 00:05:53.990 A:middle L:90% about at that time into now future. Yeah. 93 00:05:54.000 --> 00:06:00.300 A:middle L:90% My my progression through the university and Virginia text basically 94 00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:01.339 A:middle L:90% . And the College of Architecture, I'll contribute to 95 00:06:01.339 --> 00:06:04.300 A:middle L:90% that and the studies in Architecture and construction. It 96 00:06:04.310 --> 00:06:06.870 A:middle L:90% may be where I'm at now. So, so 97 00:06:06.870 --> 00:06:11.129 A:middle L:90% there's been some very good, very good people In 98 00:06:11.129 --> 00:06:12.870 A:middle L:90% my life that have helped me along. But I 99 00:06:12.870 --> 00:06:15.089 A:middle L:90% started in 66 and went to about 69 or 70 100 00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:16.689 A:middle L:90% . Little blurry. And when all that ended, 101 00:06:16.689 --> 00:06:19.949 A:middle L:90% it all melted together. I returned back in 75 102 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:24.279 A:middle L:90% and went from 75 to 78. I returned back 103 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:28.000 A:middle L:90% in 92 and got a master's degree from 90 to 104 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:30.800 A:middle L:90% 93. I started on the faculty and building construction 105 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:36.129 A:middle L:90% in 93 and I've been here since 93 To 2011 106 00:06:36.129 --> 00:06:39.920 A:middle L:90% and so there's a little bit of a blur sometimes 107 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:41.839 A:middle L:90% in things. So I have a couple of gaps 108 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:43.399 A:middle L:90% of a five year gap and then I have a 109 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.949 A:middle L:90% 15 year gap. When did the building construction? 110 00:06:46.540 --> 00:06:50.149 A:middle L:90% Come on. That's building construction started in engineering. 111 00:06:50.149 --> 00:06:54.160 A:middle L:90% Much like much like architecture came out of engineering, 112 00:06:55.139 --> 00:07:00.939 A:middle L:90% building construction as a program we're graduating Students out of 113 00:07:00.939 --> 00:07:03.870 A:middle L:90% that was sometime in the late 40s. So it's 114 00:07:03.870 --> 00:07:06.560 A:middle L:90% a very old program, one of the oldest programs 115 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:10.850 A:middle L:90% in the United States. The first graduate, I 116 00:07:10.850 --> 00:07:15.750 A:middle L:90% think came out around 46 47. Um, it 117 00:07:15.750 --> 00:07:18.829 A:middle L:90% at some point in time got, got used to 118 00:07:18.829 --> 00:07:21.800 A:middle L:90% be architecture engineering. I understand that became building construction 119 00:07:21.810 --> 00:07:27.110 A:middle L:90% became part of the College of Architecture. I think 120 00:07:27.110 --> 00:07:29.459 A:middle L:90% when the College of Architecture was created, because I 121 00:07:29.459 --> 00:07:31.360 A:middle L:90% know some students that were in it at that point 122 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:33.180 A:middle L:90% in time and almost certainly were in the College of 123 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:36.980 A:middle L:90% Architecture at that time. And so the bishop, 124 00:07:38.250 --> 00:07:40.250 A:middle L:90% this wasn't here when I was here. No, 125 00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:46.399 A:middle L:90% this building a bishop. Federal Hall was Opened in 126 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:49.730 A:middle L:90% January 2007 or 2008. I'm not exactly sure. 127 00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:53.459 A:middle L:90% Again, four or five years, they get blurry 128 00:07:53.490 --> 00:07:55.589 A:middle L:90% . They, so we've been in this building three 129 00:07:55.589 --> 00:07:59.250 A:middle L:90% or four years, uh, before that, the 130 00:07:59.259 --> 00:08:03.430 A:middle L:90% building construction program was, as many people characterized it 131 00:08:03.430 --> 00:08:05.750 A:middle L:90% as the red headed step child of the college. 132 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:09.480 A:middle L:90% We were shifted around. So building construction at one 133 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:11.959 A:middle L:90% point was in the top of Patent Hall. Third 134 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:16.050 A:middle L:90% floor architecture used to be in third floor, fourth 135 00:08:16.050 --> 00:08:18.000 A:middle L:90% floor Patent Hall. When I was a freshman, 136 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:18.269 A:middle L:90% I went up there to look and see where these 137 00:08:18.269 --> 00:08:20.550 A:middle L:90% other guys were to see what was going to happen 138 00:08:20.550 --> 00:08:22.990 A:middle L:90% to me after I left the old high school building 139 00:08:22.990 --> 00:08:26.540 A:middle L:90% and a foundation. So I went up there to 140 00:08:26.550 --> 00:08:28.120 A:middle L:90% just tour around a little bit and see that. 141 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.290 A:middle L:90% So I know that they were up there building construction 142 00:08:31.540 --> 00:08:33.419 A:middle L:90% was in the old Patent Hall, top of Patent 143 00:08:33.419 --> 00:08:37.720 A:middle L:90% Hall. They were moved over to the top floor 144 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.620 A:middle L:90% of the infirmary in Henderson Hall. They were shuffled 145 00:08:41.620 --> 00:08:43.259 A:middle L:90% over into downtown. It was the old tech motel 146 00:08:43.259 --> 00:08:52.240 A:middle L:90% which is where Draper Road and Church Street. Draper 147 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.549 A:middle L:90% Road in Church Street area, they were put above 148 00:08:54.549 --> 00:08:56.740 A:middle L:90% a little docks drug store, which is the corner 149 00:08:56.740 --> 00:09:00.649 A:middle L:90% of Draper Road in college at Union. They were 150 00:09:00.649 --> 00:09:05.159 A:middle L:90% stuffed back into a couple of other places around campus 151 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:11.360 A:middle L:90% . They were also in the basement of Owens dining 152 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:13.250 A:middle L:90% hall for a period of time. And I've heard 153 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:18.759 A:middle L:90% I've heard stories about the ill. Yeah, yeah 154 00:09:20.029 --> 00:09:22.070 A:middle L:90% , cooking soup up in the dining hall and occasionally 155 00:09:22.100 --> 00:09:24.200 A:middle L:90% overflowed bubble over and drip down through some of the 156 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:28.120 A:middle L:90% cracks into the building, construction classrooms and labs down 157 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.019 A:middle L:90% below the back of birstall. We were in the 158 00:09:33.029 --> 00:09:35.370 A:middle L:90% back of birstall for a period of time. We 159 00:09:35.379 --> 00:09:37.120 A:middle L:90% then, at some point in time, our alumni 160 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.879 A:middle L:90% said, we're just uh, we just want you 161 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:41.350 A:middle L:90% guys to have a home, we want building construction 162 00:09:41.350 --> 00:09:43.509 A:middle L:90% to have a home. And so the building construction 163 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:48.850 A:middle L:90% alumni got together and Mhm, partnered up, put 164 00:09:48.850 --> 00:09:50.419 A:middle L:90% some money, quite a bit of money up to 165 00:09:50.429 --> 00:09:52.240 A:middle L:90% create this building. This building is, yeah, 166 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:56.019 A:middle L:90% a real public, private partnership with the private stimulating 167 00:09:56.019 --> 00:09:58.320 A:middle L:90% it. And a good bit of chunk of the 168 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.480 A:middle L:90% money coming from private donations to make the, Make 169 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:03.159 A:middle L:90% the building a reality. And we now have the 170 00:10:03.169 --> 00:10:05.950 A:middle L:90% building in place. The area right outside my office 171 00:10:05.950 --> 00:10:11.720 A:middle L:90% is a 24/7 access for the students. We think 172 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:13.179 A:middle L:90% that's an important component. We think that's very similar 173 00:10:13.179 --> 00:10:18.669 A:middle L:90% to the way the architecture buildings operate. And I 174 00:10:18.669 --> 00:10:22.360 A:middle L:90% come from that history of of having a space in 175 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:24.789 A:middle L:90% a place to go work anytime day or night. 176 00:10:26.340 --> 00:10:28.370 A:middle L:90% And I have a very, very, very strong 177 00:10:28.370 --> 00:10:31.340 A:middle L:90% sensitivity to locking people out of buildings because when we 178 00:10:31.340 --> 00:10:33.919 A:middle L:90% were students in the Ohio school building, the police 179 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:35.049 A:middle L:90% used to come around and lock us out and then 180 00:10:35.049 --> 00:10:37.899 A:middle L:90% we used to hide under desk and in closets and 181 00:10:37.909 --> 00:10:41.320 A:middle L:90% wherever we could find. And when the police left 182 00:10:41.330 --> 00:10:43.009 A:middle L:90% , we would come back out of the out of 183 00:10:43.009 --> 00:10:45.460 A:middle L:90% the crevices and go back to work with little desk 184 00:10:45.460 --> 00:10:46.740 A:middle L:90% lamps, headlamps, whatever we could find to work 185 00:10:46.750 --> 00:10:50.470 A:middle L:90% with, pull all the shades down and then we'd 186 00:10:50.470 --> 00:10:52.049 A:middle L:90% get rated and run off and somebody would always hide 187 00:10:52.049 --> 00:10:54.840 A:middle L:90% out and unlock the door and sneak back in and 188 00:10:54.850 --> 00:10:58.110 A:middle L:90% we'll continue to work. And eventually the university policy 189 00:10:58.110 --> 00:11:00.379 A:middle L:90% was is that we just need to make this space 190 00:11:00.389 --> 00:11:03.370 A:middle L:90% open completely so that the students have a place to 191 00:11:03.379 --> 00:11:03.970 A:middle L:90% work because we're tired of trying to run them out 192 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:07.059 A:middle L:90% and they're gonna come back anyway so we make that 193 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.289 A:middle L:90% reality. But that's a good fun fun memory to 194 00:11:11.289 --> 00:11:13.659 A:middle L:90% have being chased out of the building because you're trying 195 00:11:13.659 --> 00:11:16.159 A:middle L:90% to do your academic work. Yeah. That's funny 196 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.210 A:middle L:90% . Marcus Cooper jr was like that and I never 197 00:11:20.210 --> 00:11:22.440 A:middle L:90% made any sense to me coming from this. They 198 00:11:22.450 --> 00:11:24.450 A:middle L:90% kicked you out at one am are you kidding? 199 00:11:24.450 --> 00:11:26.320 A:middle L:90% I'm just getting started. Right. Right. A 200 00:11:26.330 --> 00:11:28.679 A:middle L:90% lot of us were just getting started or had been 201 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.370 A:middle L:90% working for some of us for days maybe, but 202 00:11:31.379 --> 00:11:35.269 A:middle L:90% it was an exciting, exciting, very energetic time 203 00:11:35.409 --> 00:11:37.019 A:middle L:90% . So have you tried to take some of that 204 00:11:37.019 --> 00:11:39.980 A:middle L:90% ? Some the lessons, you know, things that 205 00:11:39.980 --> 00:11:43.360 A:middle L:90% you learned ways to work and things like that. 206 00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:50.090 A:middle L:90% Right. Part of my, part of my teaching 207 00:11:50.090 --> 00:11:54.960 A:middle L:90% philosophy is that you, you have to self discover 208 00:11:54.639 --> 00:12:00.370 A:middle L:90% and so in architecture, the the efforts are a 209 00:12:00.379 --> 00:12:05.870 A:middle L:90% very brief problem set and then it's a discovery trip 210 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:07.610 A:middle L:90% to determine what the problems are, what the limitations 211 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:09.240 A:middle L:90% are, what the left and rights, tops and 212 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:13.340 A:middle L:90% bottoms are so that you can build the solution set 213 00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:18.889 A:middle L:90% that you're after within that limited palette set, that 214 00:12:18.889 --> 00:12:20.990 A:middle L:90% experience that you have knowledge that you have and meeting 215 00:12:20.990 --> 00:12:26.370 A:middle L:90% the criteria that's set the most unique thing that I 216 00:12:26.379 --> 00:12:28.519 A:middle L:90% can attribute. That not attribute that to but parallel 217 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.299 A:middle L:90% that with is the when an individual when I took 218 00:12:31.309 --> 00:12:35.970 A:middle L:90% my architectural registration exam, unlike many other exams, 219 00:12:35.970 --> 00:12:39.379 A:middle L:90% that design portion, you go in there and they 220 00:12:39.389 --> 00:12:43.070 A:middle L:90% give you five blank sheets of paper and these are 221 00:12:43.070 --> 00:12:45.950 A:middle L:90% 17 by 22 or 20 to 24 inch pieces of 222 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:46.789 A:middle L:90% paper and they expect you to fill them up in 223 00:12:46.789 --> 00:12:50.950 A:middle L:90% 12 hours and they give you a very brief statement 224 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:52.730 A:middle L:90% , a little bit of programming and then you're kind 225 00:12:52.730 --> 00:12:56.490 A:middle L:90% of on your own. And so one of the 226 00:12:56.490 --> 00:13:00.409 A:middle L:90% things that I try to instill in our students is 227 00:13:00.409 --> 00:13:03.159 A:middle L:90% that that problems come in. A lot of different 228 00:13:03.740 --> 00:13:07.870 A:middle L:90% guys is the solution sets are up to you to 229 00:13:07.870 --> 00:13:11.950 A:middle L:90% determine what the parameters are, that define the problem 230 00:13:11.539 --> 00:13:16.309 A:middle L:90% . So establish the problem and then hopefully attack the 231 00:13:16.309 --> 00:13:24.649 A:middle L:90% problem in some form of reasonable and appreciative solution. 232 00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:28.899 A:middle L:90% One that's just not completely out of the out of 233 00:13:28.909 --> 00:13:31.529 A:middle L:90% the realm of possibility, but one that's at at 234 00:13:31.529 --> 00:13:33.700 A:middle L:90% the realm of possibility and does push some of the 235 00:13:33.700 --> 00:13:37.000 A:middle L:90% limits and become creative innocence. So some of that 236 00:13:37.009 --> 00:13:41.610 A:middle L:90% philosophy does carry over into the way I approach the 237 00:13:41.610 --> 00:13:45.080 A:middle L:90% way students learn, which is to me a the 238 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:48.460 A:middle L:90% form of discovery now. How do you No, 239 00:13:50.139 --> 00:13:50.710 A:middle L:90% this is relevant for the film, but I'm kind 240 00:13:50.710 --> 00:13:54.159 A:middle L:90% of curious and maybe maybe it's one it works out 241 00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:56.950 A:middle L:90% . Um, you know, you guys are here 242 00:13:58.340 --> 00:14:01.509 A:middle L:90% , architecture is over there, part of the same 243 00:14:01.509 --> 00:14:03.210 A:middle L:90% college, but there doesn't seem to be a whole 244 00:14:03.210 --> 00:14:05.990 A:middle L:90% lot of interaction that seems at least to me that 245 00:14:05.990 --> 00:14:09.149 A:middle L:90% somebody invested in this side as well. Miss stuff 246 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:15.200 A:middle L:90% answer. Right? Uh, yeah. On the 247 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.690 A:middle L:90% question of the interactivity between building construction students and architecture 248 00:14:20.690 --> 00:14:22.429 A:middle L:90% students over the years, there's been a series of 249 00:14:22.429 --> 00:14:28.950 A:middle L:90% endeavors to try to make that happen. The the 250 00:14:28.940 --> 00:14:31.750 A:middle L:90% to me and I've tried to do it, I've 251 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:33.549 A:middle L:90% done some classes. We've we've done design build classes 252 00:14:33.549 --> 00:14:37.700 A:middle L:90% with fifth year students. Design build classes with third 253 00:14:37.700 --> 00:14:39.690 A:middle L:90% year students are third year architecture students and fourth year 254 00:14:39.700 --> 00:14:43.029 A:middle L:90% Bc students, 50 Year Architecture Students& 4th Year 255 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.730 A:middle L:90% BC Students. And we've run into in those kind 256 00:14:46.730 --> 00:14:50.750 A:middle L:90% of interactive type things. We've run into some some 257 00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:56.769 A:middle L:90% maybe it's maybe it's a personality differential or maybe it's 258 00:14:56.769 --> 00:15:01.539 A:middle L:90% a behavioral differential. I sometimes equate that to the 259 00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:03.850 A:middle L:90% fact that there are people who are idea people, 260 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.029 A:middle L:90% creative idea generators and then there are people who are 261 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.639 A:middle L:90% implementing hers and begin to be doers. Uh huh 262 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.480 A:middle L:90% . Our students, the Bc students are predominantly experiential 263 00:15:18.490 --> 00:15:20.360 A:middle L:90% types of learners. They like the hands on, 264 00:15:20.370 --> 00:15:24.700 A:middle L:90% they like to manipulate, they like to build and 265 00:15:24.700 --> 00:15:31.370 A:middle L:90% create things in that physical sense. The some say 266 00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:33.389 A:middle L:90% that it's not, it comes back around to what's 267 00:15:33.389 --> 00:15:39.529 A:middle L:90% practical and what's impractical and I think that's short selling 268 00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:43.759 A:middle L:90% . The relationship between design and construction. Uh it's 269 00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:48.700 A:middle L:90% it's been, it's been tried, it's been at 270 00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:50.320 A:middle L:90% times we think successful at other times it's been extremely 271 00:15:50.330 --> 00:15:56.090 A:middle L:90% unsuccessful. There are certain instances where I think that 272 00:15:56.100 --> 00:15:58.740 A:middle L:90% there is a, at times a component of arrogance 273 00:15:58.750 --> 00:16:03.159 A:middle L:90% relative to either side, from either a student aside 274 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:07.389 A:middle L:90% and uh either architecture or construction students are both. 275 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:08.690 A:middle L:90% And even at times, I think I've witnessed that 276 00:16:08.690 --> 00:16:18.500 A:middle L:90% at the faculty side and I'll leave it at that 277 00:16:18.509 --> 00:16:19.570 A:middle L:90% just a little bit. But for you on the 278 00:16:19.580 --> 00:16:22.840 A:middle L:90% off camera, if you want to do an off 279 00:16:22.850 --> 00:16:23.659 A:middle L:90% camera, I don't care how you handle it really 280 00:16:25.139 --> 00:16:29.019 A:middle L:90% . Um I'm too old to care how people handle 281 00:16:29.179 --> 00:16:32.600 A:middle L:90% these days, but there is uh from an architect's 282 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:37.309 A:middle L:90% perspective, I understand architectural arrogance and although I think 283 00:16:37.309 --> 00:16:42.269 A:middle L:90% architectural arrogance has a purpose, architectural arrogance at times 284 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:49.129 A:middle L:90% becomes the becomes the becomes becomes a hindrance and a 285 00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:53.450 A:middle L:90% distraction to getting a collaborative kind of endeavor going and 286 00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:57.230 A:middle L:90% architects have to have maintained arrogance because everybody wants to 287 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.769 A:middle L:90% chop away at the creative aspects of the design, 288 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:04.029 A:middle L:90% owners want to chop away at constructors want to chop 289 00:17:04.029 --> 00:17:07.589 A:middle L:90% away at it, consultants want to chop away at 290 00:17:07.589 --> 00:17:11.039 A:middle L:90% it. Subcontractors want to chop away at the public 291 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.549 A:middle L:90% , wants to chop away at Yeah. And in 292 00:17:12.549 --> 00:17:17.680 A:middle L:90% order for that purity of the mindset that architects bring 293 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:19.420 A:middle L:90% to the table, they have to fight continually. 294 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:22.940 A:middle L:90% And if they don't have a bit of an arrogance 295 00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:26.849 A:middle L:90% about them, their solution sets will never be realized 296 00:17:26.849 --> 00:17:30.079 A:middle L:90% to the level that they're asked. Uh and that's 297 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.279 A:middle L:90% a perspective that I have and that I see it 298 00:17:33.289 --> 00:17:34.839 A:middle L:90% may be erroneous, but it's one that that I 299 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:38.470 A:middle L:90% perceive when I when I engage and deal with architects 300 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:44.599 A:middle L:90% . Architects sometimes use a a very mysterious language that 301 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:48.109 A:middle L:90% very few people are able to comprehend and understand their 302 00:17:48.109 --> 00:17:52.849 A:middle L:90% articulation works pretty well within the architecture and design community 303 00:17:52.539 --> 00:17:56.170 A:middle L:90% doesn't work very well outside the architecture and design community 304 00:17:56.539 --> 00:18:00.990 A:middle L:90% . And therefore people kind of think that there out 305 00:18:00.990 --> 00:18:06.150 A:middle L:90% of touch at times not to touch me. I 306 00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:07.549 A:middle L:90% think it's all extremely well put and I think that's 307 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.759 A:middle L:90% yeah, that makes perfect sense. That's you know 308 00:18:12.339 --> 00:18:15.450 A:middle L:90% , why it's important. But also the challenge. 309 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.160 A:middle L:90% Yeah, the challenge is a good word on approaching 310 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:22.440 A:middle L:90% that kind of relationship between the design and construct. 311 00:18:22.490 --> 00:18:26.349 A:middle L:90% I've had I've heard both sides of the stories, 312 00:18:26.450 --> 00:18:30.400 A:middle L:90% I've heard the story that, you know, builders 313 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.960 A:middle L:90% constructors if you wish, or just mechanics without a 314 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.759 A:middle L:90% sense of creativity. Um I've heard the a reverse 315 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.660 A:middle L:90% side. Architects know nothing about construction, I know 316 00:18:41.660 --> 00:18:44.619 A:middle L:90% nothing about how pieces and parts go together. And 317 00:18:44.619 --> 00:18:48.269 A:middle L:90% so I feel and I hope that I can make 318 00:18:48.269 --> 00:18:51.089 A:middle L:90% that kind of contribution that I worked very diligently to 319 00:18:51.089 --> 00:18:55.660 A:middle L:90% try to balance the fact that that there are contributors 320 00:18:55.670 --> 00:19:00.559 A:middle L:90% . And it's a collaborative endeavor to get successful projects 321 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:03.420 A:middle L:90% built successful even at the routine region, local level 322 00:19:03.430 --> 00:19:07.170 A:middle L:90% and even successful national, what we might call landmark 323 00:19:07.180 --> 00:19:11.779 A:middle L:90% buildings are signature buildings. It takes an enormous collaborative 324 00:19:11.779 --> 00:19:17.059 A:middle L:90% endeavor to make those happen. And if you don't 325 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:18.990 A:middle L:90% think that's the case, then you really are missing 326 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:23.150 A:middle L:90% the boat. Yeah, I mean it's a very 327 00:19:23.150 --> 00:19:26.559 A:middle L:90% valuable perspective to be able to have from both. 328 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.950 A:middle L:90% Well, the designers do know how to put things 329 00:19:30.950 --> 00:19:33.549 A:middle L:90% together. They may not know some of the very 330 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.690 A:middle L:90% intricate details and and they may not may not have 331 00:19:36.690 --> 00:19:41.039 A:middle L:90% a sensitivity to some of the micro aspects of that 332 00:19:41.049 --> 00:19:45.170 A:middle L:90% , but the broader aspects of the relationships that the 333 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:49.289 A:middle L:90% quality, quality too management of the delivery. Quality 334 00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:52.630 A:middle L:90% management in a different sense than quality management from a 335 00:19:52.630 --> 00:19:56.819 A:middle L:90% construction perspective, but how you do maintain the relationships 336 00:19:56.819 --> 00:19:59.819 A:middle L:90% and quality of the workmanship of the material and the 337 00:19:59.829 --> 00:20:02.930 A:middle L:90% quality of the inter relationships between the materials. They 338 00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:06.259 A:middle L:90% architects understand that. I think very, very well 339 00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:11.369 A:middle L:90% the ability to design the interface is I think in 340 00:20:11.369 --> 00:20:15.660 A:middle L:90% general, they understand those reasonably well, they understand 341 00:20:15.670 --> 00:20:19.910 A:middle L:90% tolerance levels reasonably well. So, so I don't 342 00:20:19.910 --> 00:20:22.099 A:middle L:90% take a lot of stock in anybody that ever tells 343 00:20:22.099 --> 00:20:25.660 A:middle L:90% me that architects don't know how to put buildings together 344 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:26.859 A:middle L:90% . I think one of the, one of the 345 00:20:26.869 --> 00:20:32.539 A:middle L:90% things that I find very interesting is I don't know 346 00:20:32.539 --> 00:20:34.769 A:middle L:90% if, you know 100. Yeah, he actually 347 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.910 A:middle L:90% bring some very attractive does he does. And this 348 00:20:40.910 --> 00:20:45.210 A:middle L:90% summer we had summer studio grant program. You know 349 00:20:45.500 --> 00:20:47.109 A:middle L:90% , there was a point where he's like, you 350 00:20:47.109 --> 00:20:49.049 A:middle L:90% know, there has to be in door opener there 351 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:52.039 A:middle L:90% , where is the same newspaper going? There are 352 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.049 A:middle L:90% things like that I think are so valuable for architects 353 00:20:56.059 --> 00:20:59.640 A:middle L:90% to understand, it doesn't have to come in and 354 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:00.509 A:middle L:90% come out, but at some point you have to 355 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:04.309 A:middle L:90% accept the reality that this can't be a pure thing 356 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.069 A:middle L:90% if you're actually going to make it, it's coming 357 00:21:07.069 --> 00:21:08.279 A:middle L:90% off the page. And I anyway, so I 358 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.170 A:middle L:90% guess one of my questions for us going forward, 359 00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:15.599 A:middle L:90% like projecting out as far as you want to project 360 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.160 A:middle L:90% out, do you see, especially with design ability 361 00:21:19.170 --> 00:21:25.170 A:middle L:90% becoming a more viable delivery for public works and things 362 00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:32.609 A:middle L:90% , do you see need or? Mhm. I'm 363 00:21:32.609 --> 00:21:37.289 A:middle L:90% just wondering about the collaboration programs going forward in the 364 00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:41.579 A:middle L:90% future. The well maybe not even so far into 365 00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:45.950 A:middle L:90% the future because I think that right now the merging 366 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.549 A:middle L:90% of design and construction is happening, it's happening at 367 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.619 A:middle L:90% the, at the project delivery level that's happening with 368 00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:56.769 A:middle L:90% the design build, to see in that risk components 369 00:21:56.769 --> 00:22:00.460 A:middle L:90% that we're seeing being used significantly in construction right now 370 00:22:00.940 --> 00:22:04.269 A:middle L:90% . Uh, the battle for leadership in integrated project 371 00:22:04.269 --> 00:22:07.160 A:middle L:90% delivery has yet to really hit the, hit the 372 00:22:07.170 --> 00:22:11.759 A:middle L:90% table very hard I think, but where you're seeing 373 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.359 A:middle L:90% it, not only in the professional levels, but 374 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:17.750 A:middle L:90% you see it at the sub levels where students now 375 00:22:17.750 --> 00:22:18.299 A:middle L:90% are saying I need to know a little bit more 376 00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:21.160 A:middle L:90% about construction or I need to know a little bit 377 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:22.640 A:middle L:90% more about design. So you're seeing that little tip 378 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.529 A:middle L:90% of the spear starting to happen and subsequently to that 379 00:22:26.539 --> 00:22:30.769 A:middle L:90% , the construction professionals, the companies that do high 380 00:22:30.769 --> 00:22:36.299 A:middle L:90% end work and do a significant amount of construction management 381 00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:41.210 A:middle L:90% at risk and design build, recognize that the team 382 00:22:41.490 --> 00:22:44.640 A:middle L:90% needs in house. On the constructor side, the 383 00:22:44.650 --> 00:22:48.390 A:middle L:90% team in house needs an architectural, what I call 384 00:22:48.390 --> 00:22:55.369 A:middle L:90% a construction designer or a construction integrator or a design 385 00:22:55.369 --> 00:22:59.170 A:middle L:90% integrated the term that you whichever term you wish to 386 00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:00.559 A:middle L:90% look at. I like the concept of construction designer 387 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:06.670 A:middle L:90% because that individual has now got a big gap to 388 00:23:06.670 --> 00:23:11.680 A:middle L:90% fill between what might be the design designer and the 389 00:23:11.690 --> 00:23:15.069 A:middle L:90% constructor of record if you wish and not even so 390 00:23:15.069 --> 00:23:21.700 A:middle L:90% much the designer, the design designer and then than 391 00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:22.339 A:middle L:90% a local designer. That's a, that's a real 392 00:23:22.339 --> 00:23:25.359 A:middle L:90% difference. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking 393 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:29.309 A:middle L:90% about an individual that's able to bridge that world and 394 00:23:29.309 --> 00:23:33.160 A:middle L:90% that domain between the design speak in a construction speak 395 00:23:34.109 --> 00:23:37.759 A:middle L:90% and is able to say, okay, I need 396 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:41.069 A:middle L:90% to figure out simply, you know, just in 397 00:23:41.069 --> 00:23:44.720 A:middle L:90% time, just in sequence documentation that's accurate to give 398 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.740 A:middle L:90% me what I need when I needed and add value 399 00:23:47.750 --> 00:23:51.480 A:middle L:90% to the process. As opposed to documenting things that 400 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:55.009 A:middle L:90% might protect me and litigation or might protect me when 401 00:23:55.009 --> 00:23:56.910 A:middle L:90% we run into uh, you know, why do 402 00:23:56.910 --> 00:23:59.759 A:middle L:90% you have this and not have this and areas and 403 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.259 A:middle L:90% emissions kind of pieces and parts that we get into 404 00:24:02.269 --> 00:24:03.440 A:middle L:90% ? So I'm seeing that I'm seeing the companies, 405 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:08.269 A:middle L:90% particularly the constructors, construction companies are hiring architectural graduates 406 00:24:08.539 --> 00:24:12.890 A:middle L:90% to come into their organizations to interface between the design 407 00:24:12.890 --> 00:24:15.769 A:middle L:90% that they get and a construction that they need. 408 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:18.539 A:middle L:90% A lot of it is coupled around the use of 409 00:24:18.549 --> 00:24:22.569 A:middle L:90% building information modeling right now and building information modeling is 410 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:27.640 A:middle L:90% , is, has quite a bit of capabilities to 411 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:32.410 A:middle L:90% it. It's being used quite frequently in the front 412 00:24:32.410 --> 00:24:36.680 A:middle L:90% end procurement process. Give you three very quick schematic 413 00:24:36.690 --> 00:24:38.680 A:middle L:90% designs, different schemes and I can actually probably price 414 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:45.599 A:middle L:90% them and reasonably range of pricing such that it's accurate 415 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:47.509 A:middle L:90% reflection and we can begin to decide whether it's a 416 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:48.440 A:middle L:90% physical project to pursue. So I can give you 417 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.299 A:middle L:90% a couple of schemes and they're really easy to kind 418 00:24:51.299 --> 00:24:52.930 A:middle L:90% of click off, right, and then I can 419 00:24:52.930 --> 00:24:56.029 A:middle L:90% then translate those things down downstream. Right? And 420 00:24:56.029 --> 00:25:00.099 A:middle L:90% then I can take the the other aspects of construct 421 00:25:00.099 --> 00:25:03.619 A:middle L:90% ability, the interfaces between the systems that I need 422 00:25:03.619 --> 00:25:06.990 A:middle L:90% to cram in a little small space between finished ceiling 423 00:25:06.990 --> 00:25:10.750 A:middle L:90% and roof and so our floor. So we're able 424 00:25:10.750 --> 00:25:11.569 A:middle L:90% to then come back and take a look and say 425 00:25:11.569 --> 00:25:14.309 A:middle L:90% , okay, how's all my piping on my duct 426 00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:17.450 A:middle L:90% work? All my diffusers on my uh wow, 427 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:21.529 A:middle L:90% come to, it's all that other stuff that's up 428 00:25:21.529 --> 00:25:22.420 A:middle L:90% in the ceiling. How do I interface with all 429 00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:25.940 A:middle L:90% of that And make sure I can minimize my uh 430 00:25:25.950 --> 00:25:29.869 A:middle L:90% interference is therefore minimize minimize my going back and saying 431 00:25:29.869 --> 00:25:30.119 A:middle L:90% , well, you know, you didn't design this 432 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:32.930 A:middle L:90% to fit or it's too deep, too big. 433 00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:33.910 A:middle L:90% I got a dollar so we catch all of those 434 00:25:33.910 --> 00:25:37.599 A:middle L:90% in advance so we can virtually do the virtual design 435 00:25:37.609 --> 00:25:41.480 A:middle L:90% construct. So the world of virtual design and construct 436 00:25:41.569 --> 00:25:45.430 A:middle L:90% is a world that's going to now now naturally create 437 00:25:45.430 --> 00:25:49.180 A:middle L:90% a collaborative environment for the design and construction and we'll 438 00:25:49.180 --> 00:25:52.230 A:middle L:90% get a common speak out of the refuge. Do 439 00:25:52.230 --> 00:25:56.599 A:middle L:90% you see more classes together and you know, things 440 00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:02.269 A:middle L:90% like them? I'm not sure that that we'll see 441 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:06.079 A:middle L:90% classes together. I do think that maybe in an 442 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:10.289 A:middle L:90% educational environment there may be some, some specific focus 443 00:26:10.289 --> 00:26:14.990 A:middle L:90% that has to go on and maybe I've just been 444 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:21.569 A:middle L:90% , what's, what's the term that you use disenchanted 445 00:26:21.569 --> 00:26:22.960 A:middle L:90% when some of the things that you think will be 446 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.529 A:middle L:90% successful aren't successful. We do and I do. 447 00:26:26.529 --> 00:26:30.130 A:middle L:90% And I teach a design built, of course, 448 00:26:30.130 --> 00:26:32.630 A:middle L:90% it's a four credit our course, it's a design 449 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:33.440 A:middle L:90% build. I've taught it for a few years. 450 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:37.750 A:middle L:90% We've done that as I said with the fifth year 451 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.990 A:middle L:90% architecture students in our fourth year Bc students. And 452 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:42.069 A:middle L:90% , and that was almost a disaster. And the 453 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:45.230 A:middle L:90% disaster was is that when you team these guys up 454 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.890 A:middle L:90% , you get designers, they get design block and 455 00:26:48.890 --> 00:26:52.089 A:middle L:90% then you get students that are kind of mm waiting 456 00:26:52.089 --> 00:26:55.029 A:middle L:90% for the design, which I tell them you are 457 00:26:55.029 --> 00:26:56.440 A:middle L:90% a contributor and a collaborator for the design. So 458 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.430 A:middle L:90% you can't wait for the design. You contribute to 459 00:27:00.430 --> 00:27:03.400 A:middle L:90% the design. So don't give me that, buying 460 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.000 A:middle L:90% that. Um, but the design blocks at times 461 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:07.170 A:middle L:90% , you know, the paper where you can't get 462 00:27:07.170 --> 00:27:10.519 A:middle L:90% anything on the paper or you can't make that decision 463 00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:12.170 A:middle L:90% . And so you're seeing some of those, some 464 00:27:12.170 --> 00:27:15.569 A:middle L:90% of those kind of rubs on that fifth year was 465 00:27:15.569 --> 00:27:18.190 A:middle L:90% not one of the most successful years to work with 466 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:19.720 A:middle L:90% that third year could be, but I think third 467 00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:22.150 A:middle L:90% year in architecture is probably devoted at a different level 468 00:27:22.150 --> 00:27:26.369 A:middle L:90% of discovery that doesn't make the interface. So maybe 469 00:27:26.369 --> 00:27:27.789 A:middle L:90% the fourth year is one of those areas that might 470 00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:30.150 A:middle L:90% be able to work in that kind of kind of 471 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.700 A:middle L:90% peace in part. I think it would be great 472 00:27:33.710 --> 00:27:34.890 A:middle L:90% if we could and I do that every year. 473 00:27:34.890 --> 00:27:38.220 A:middle L:90% But when the realities come back in that it's that 474 00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:45.559 A:middle L:90% it's a yeah, it's just a balance. I 475 00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:47.680 A:middle L:90% think it's a bit of balance on how you get 476 00:27:47.690 --> 00:27:49.079 A:middle L:90% that thing balanced out. Our design build I think 477 00:27:49.089 --> 00:27:52.559 A:middle L:90% works reasonably well, particularly if we're able to get 478 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.470 A:middle L:90% master students that have been in architecture and then our 479 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:00.200 A:middle L:90% master students that we put with our our undergraduate students 480 00:28:00.210 --> 00:28:03.680 A:middle L:90% in a design build endeavor. And so each is 481 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:06.380 A:middle L:90% able to bring and contribute quite a quite a bit 482 00:28:06.390 --> 00:28:08.369 A:middle L:90% to the parts and you get that inter relationship working 483 00:28:08.380 --> 00:28:15.299 A:middle L:90% and that seems to be I think reasonably successful and 484 00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:17.279 A:middle L:90% I think that there's a good appreciation for that. 485 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.009 A:middle L:90% So my suggestion might be if there was a suggestion 486 00:28:19.009 --> 00:28:23.940 A:middle L:90% that I could make is that that maybe a few 487 00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:27.470 A:middle L:90% of the master students might like to participate in that 488 00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:32.029 A:middle L:90% endeavor that we have here. The rub becomes the 489 00:28:32.029 --> 00:28:33.960 A:middle L:90% rub is the rub is somewhat of a control up 490 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.769 A:middle L:90% . Like I got my students, I don't want 491 00:28:37.769 --> 00:28:40.119 A:middle L:90% my students going somewhere else. They don't have the 492 00:28:40.130 --> 00:28:41.380 A:middle L:90% time to go somewhere else. They're not going to 493 00:28:41.390 --> 00:28:45.039 A:middle L:90% be near me and my glamour or my uh my 494 00:28:45.049 --> 00:28:48.490 A:middle L:90% glamour is not the right term but my mentor ship 495 00:28:48.490 --> 00:28:51.990 A:middle L:90% is not gonna rub off. I do think that 496 00:28:51.990 --> 00:28:53.799 A:middle L:90% architecture at times in the past and I don't know 497 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:56.460 A:middle L:90% if it's the case and you may have a better 498 00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:00.309 A:middle L:90% better handle on this being a master students or masters 499 00:29:00.309 --> 00:29:03.490 A:middle L:90% or PhD master student being a student is that that 500 00:29:03.490 --> 00:29:07.450 A:middle L:90% there is instances in the past where there's this kind 501 00:29:07.450 --> 00:29:12.410 A:middle L:90% of, it's a kind of a mentorship where you 502 00:29:12.410 --> 00:29:15.480 A:middle L:90% have the master and you have the student and so 503 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.450 A:middle L:90% the master has a student following and the student following 504 00:29:18.450 --> 00:29:22.309 A:middle L:90% wants the master. And so it's a, it's 505 00:29:22.309 --> 00:29:27.769 A:middle L:90% that relationship unlike the Jedi warrior in the trainee. 506 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:33.279 A:middle L:90% Oh, I think, I think what, I 507 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.599 A:middle L:90% think it's interesting to see, I think this is 508 00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.369 A:middle L:90% because I see a change happening over there and I 509 00:29:38.369 --> 00:29:42.009 A:middle L:90% think a lot of the older professors think it's a 510 00:29:42.019 --> 00:29:45.859 A:middle L:90% bad think there's younger faculty coming in who have more 511 00:29:48.140 --> 00:29:51.960 A:middle L:90% field mentality and we actually have to do this now 512 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.170 A:middle L:90% as opposed to, I think sort of the lineage 513 00:29:55.940 --> 00:30:00.059 A:middle L:90% of for our years, right, being blessed out 514 00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:03.299 A:middle L:90% , wow. So I think there's some people who 515 00:30:03.299 --> 00:30:04.750 A:middle L:90% think the collaboration would be a great thing and other 516 00:30:04.750 --> 00:30:07.670 A:middle L:90% people who think they know you're going to get that 517 00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:11.339 A:middle L:90% , you don't need that yet, and but I 518 00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:15.640 A:middle L:90% was interviewing great cats from art and he said he 519 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:18.559 A:middle L:90% was disappointed to see there used to be much more 520 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:22.210 A:middle L:90% open, heard more architects, students would take our 521 00:30:22.220 --> 00:30:25.740 A:middle L:90% classes, and he thought great, and it just 522 00:30:25.750 --> 00:30:27.210 A:middle L:90% reminds me it makes me think of a similar thing 523 00:30:27.210 --> 00:30:30.559 A:middle L:90% here, where, you know, it would be 524 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.769 A:middle L:90% seemingly nice, all of these, you know, 525 00:30:33.430 --> 00:30:37.650 A:middle L:90% building the structure, people could take architecture right? 526 00:30:37.660 --> 00:30:41.119 A:middle L:90% We've tried before to again, cross collaboration is an 527 00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:45.710 A:middle L:90% important component of pieces and parts we've thought internally even 528 00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:49.730 A:middle L:90% of trying to do uh course sequences so that we 529 00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:53.789 A:middle L:90% have our courses tiered and structured so that there are 530 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:57.720 A:middle L:90% modules much like books in the library shelf. Right 531 00:30:57.730 --> 00:31:02.299 A:middle L:90% . And so the individual faculty are the books on 532 00:31:02.299 --> 00:31:03.660 A:middle L:90% the library shelf, you need this module in your 533 00:31:03.670 --> 00:31:07.440 A:middle L:90% class and you need it at level 123 or four 534 00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:10.589 A:middle L:90% , you go get that faculties expertise and you say 535 00:31:10.589 --> 00:31:12.619 A:middle L:90% , okay, so this week or this two week 536 00:31:12.630 --> 00:31:15.970 A:middle L:90% time frame, is that module therefore josh, You 537 00:31:15.970 --> 00:31:18.960 A:middle L:90% have that module for two weeks, alright. Which 538 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.490 A:middle L:90% gives me two weeks to go do another module on 539 00:31:22.490 --> 00:31:25.759 A:middle L:90% something else, or gives me a two week respite 540 00:31:25.769 --> 00:31:27.119 A:middle L:90% in my day to day activities and at least that 541 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.910 A:middle L:90% one particular course. And and if you can build 542 00:31:30.910 --> 00:31:33.759 A:middle L:90% the courses or build a content around there, I 543 00:31:33.769 --> 00:31:36.809 A:middle L:90% see no reason why that kind of expertise could not 544 00:31:36.819 --> 00:31:41.450 A:middle L:90% cross over into one versus the other eye for myself 545 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.839 A:middle L:90% , in the design aspects I can teach or I 546 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.279 A:middle L:90% can share with the students a bit about the the 547 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.900 A:middle L:90% strategy is an approach to how you might design a 548 00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:56.980 A:middle L:90% particular project in in our design build kind of component 549 00:31:56.170 --> 00:31:57.490 A:middle L:90% . I'm not going to go through a bunch of 550 00:31:57.490 --> 00:32:01.269 A:middle L:90% design philosophy and components like that, but it's a 551 00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:04.579 A:middle L:90% down to business. You've got a brief, you 552 00:32:04.589 --> 00:32:07.819 A:middle L:90% dissect the brief, you approach the brief from from 553 00:32:07.829 --> 00:32:13.660 A:middle L:90% your givens, you granulated your givens to minimize the 554 00:32:14.539 --> 00:32:17.519 A:middle L:90% permutations that you have. You then established criterias to 555 00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:20.460 A:middle L:90% move that out and these are the basic kind of 556 00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:22.880 A:middle L:90% things you kind of left with guys. And so 557 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.250 A:middle L:90% you now have the aspects of being controlled in one 558 00:32:25.250 --> 00:32:29.250 A:middle L:90% sense and being creative in another sense. So you 559 00:32:29.250 --> 00:32:31.349 A:middle L:90% recognize the controls and then you can recognize the creativity 560 00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:37.130 A:middle L:90% and in a design build, memorable design bills are 561 00:32:37.130 --> 00:32:40.589 A:middle L:90% only those that have a memorable design and so you 562 00:32:40.589 --> 00:32:46.470 A:middle L:90% can't sell design build short by saying that that design 563 00:32:46.470 --> 00:32:51.119 A:middle L:90% is not an important component of it because those are 564 00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:52.940 A:middle L:90% the memorable projects and those are the only ones that 565 00:32:52.950 --> 00:32:57.589 A:middle L:90% goes go in people's brochures or on their websites to 566 00:32:57.589 --> 00:33:00.089 A:middle L:90% say here's our design build project and if it doesn't 567 00:33:00.089 --> 00:33:04.349 A:middle L:90% look good, it doesn't make the cut, doesn't 568 00:33:04.349 --> 00:33:07.109 A:middle L:90% make the cut. So let me ask you this 569 00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:08.960 A:middle L:90% because I don't know the answer to this and just 570 00:33:08.970 --> 00:33:13.660 A:middle L:90% trying to think back the film and what Yeah, 571 00:33:14.140 --> 00:33:16.690 A:middle L:90% think get in there. Do you know the history 572 00:33:16.690 --> 00:33:21.150 A:middle L:90% of the construction? I know a bit of the 573 00:33:21.150 --> 00:33:25.170 A:middle L:90% history of the construction program. It was uh huh 574 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:29.970 A:middle L:90% . Again the names names at the beginning of the 575 00:33:29.970 --> 00:33:35.460 A:middle L:90% construction program was I think trying to get help me 576 00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:37.890 A:middle L:90% a little bit on remembering the guys as Coco who 577 00:33:37.890 --> 00:33:38.789 A:middle L:90% was before, you know, it was before Kogel 578 00:33:38.789 --> 00:33:45.029 A:middle L:90% in a historical sense or I should too, and 579 00:33:45.029 --> 00:33:45.750 A:middle L:90% it's on the tip of my tongue and I can't 580 00:33:45.750 --> 00:33:52.109 A:middle L:90% recall specifically who that is curry Lynn curry there. 581 00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:53.190 A:middle L:90% And I think it was co golden curry or curry 582 00:33:53.190 --> 00:33:57.430 A:middle L:90% and Cody. Right, right, right. One 583 00:33:57.430 --> 00:33:59.420 A:middle L:90% of the two of those guys, either cobra career 584 00:33:59.420 --> 00:34:00.579 A:middle L:90% , I think it might have been cobalt uh, 585 00:34:00.589 --> 00:34:06.559 A:middle L:90% decided that that right after the Second World War, 586 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.840 A:middle L:90% a group of home builders came to the university and 587 00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.170 A:middle L:90% says, you know, we need a, we 588 00:34:12.170 --> 00:34:15.000 A:middle L:90% need an educational program in construction because we got a 589 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.820 A:middle L:90% lot of stuff we're gonna have to build here after 590 00:34:16.820 --> 00:34:19.570 A:middle L:90% the war. So there's quite a bit of construction 591 00:34:19.570 --> 00:34:21.420 A:middle L:90% is going to take place after the war. We 592 00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:23.639 A:middle L:90% need people personnel that are educated and trained. A 593 00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:27.559 A:middle L:90% lot of people equate education and training as the same 594 00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:30.760 A:middle L:90% thing, but we need people educated and trained in 595 00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:32.820 A:middle L:90% construction. How about seeing where we can do a 596 00:34:32.829 --> 00:34:36.670 A:middle L:90% program in that? Uh We don't need an engineering 597 00:34:36.670 --> 00:34:37.769 A:middle L:90% degree. We don't need an architecture degree of what 598 00:34:37.769 --> 00:34:40.380 A:middle L:90% we need is a basic construction degree, a little 599 00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:43.480 A:middle L:90% bit of architecture, a little bit of engineering, 600 00:34:43.489 --> 00:34:45.530 A:middle L:90% a good bit of business. Uh and then construction 601 00:34:45.530 --> 00:34:50.349 A:middle L:90% component and that got the program started. So I 602 00:34:50.349 --> 00:34:52.159 A:middle L:90% think it was kogelo Korea. Either one of those 603 00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:57.949 A:middle L:90% to have to get exactly um that started worked its 604 00:34:57.949 --> 00:34:59.909 A:middle L:90% way I think out of patent worked its way around 605 00:34:59.909 --> 00:35:02.860 A:middle L:90% town as I spoke about before finally settled into here 606 00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:08.820 A:middle L:90% . The heads of the program were, who started 607 00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:10.329 A:middle L:90% it, who, who the original head was. 608 00:35:10.329 --> 00:35:14.269 A:middle L:90% I don't know back in a in the early forties 609 00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:15.480 A:middle L:90% or the late forties, early fifties, I don't 610 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:17.429 A:middle L:90% really know who that is and I don't know exactly 611 00:35:17.429 --> 00:35:20.679 A:middle L:90% when Bill Favreau started, but he actually might have 612 00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:23.860 A:middle L:90% been the original head of the program in the department 613 00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:28.210 A:middle L:90% . Bill Favreau was in this department until he died 614 00:35:28.210 --> 00:35:31.210 A:middle L:90% . And I think the The early 70s, maybe 615 00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:36.360 A:middle L:90% sometime in the 70s. And then Vince Silin Berg 616 00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:40.010 A:middle L:90% was followed behind him and became hit. The faculty 617 00:35:40.010 --> 00:35:44.030 A:middle L:90% was three or 4 factors, three or four factors 618 00:35:44.030 --> 00:35:45.019 A:middle L:90% for the longest time, three or four faculty. 619 00:35:45.019 --> 00:35:47.969 A:middle L:90% And they rotated faculty of people who practiced. Some 620 00:35:47.969 --> 00:35:51.360 A:middle L:90% architects and built ever, was an art history professor 621 00:35:52.340 --> 00:35:53.969 A:middle L:90% . So an art history professor started the construction program 622 00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:59.849 A:middle L:90% . Vince Hillenburg was an architectural graduate and an architect 623 00:35:59.849 --> 00:36:02.320 A:middle L:90% enrichment. And so he ran the program from the 624 00:36:02.329 --> 00:36:06.809 A:middle L:90% 70s to 90s, early 90s. And then we 625 00:36:06.809 --> 00:36:14.780 A:middle L:90% had a tumultuous period with with but with just poor 626 00:36:14.780 --> 00:36:16.150 A:middle L:90% leadership at that point in time. And then Ivan 627 00:36:16.150 --> 00:36:21.909 A:middle L:90% Belliveau came in in the 95 or so like that 628 00:36:21.909 --> 00:36:23.750 A:middle L:90% mid 90s. And then he took the program on 629 00:36:23.750 --> 00:36:31.440 A:middle L:90% until 2007 or so. Like that 6 2006 2007 630 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:36.369 A:middle L:90% when the school of construction was created and he took 631 00:36:36.369 --> 00:36:37.420 A:middle L:90% the director head of the school construction and the building 632 00:36:37.420 --> 00:36:44.789 A:middle L:90% construction department. He became wallet. So so that 633 00:36:44.789 --> 00:36:47.860 A:middle L:90% little uh tom framing, that's basically that's the basic 634 00:36:47.869 --> 00:36:52.920 A:middle L:90% timeframe Back in the bill. Favreau days. They 635 00:36:52.929 --> 00:36:53.389 A:middle L:90% used to spend a lot of time out at the 636 00:36:53.389 --> 00:36:57.559 A:middle L:90% airport is actually building out at the airport that BC 637 00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:01.869 A:middle L:90% students built back in the 50s. And so they 638 00:37:01.869 --> 00:37:04.920 A:middle L:90% had, they had classes that met out there by 639 00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.900 A:middle L:90% the airport. They did they did some work like 640 00:37:07.900 --> 00:37:13.090 A:middle L:90% that there. Origination was strongly for the home building 641 00:37:13.090 --> 00:37:15.210 A:middle L:90% and the home building industry and that has matured over 642 00:37:15.210 --> 00:37:17.519 A:middle L:90% a period of time to where we're at right now 643 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:21.909 A:middle L:90% , which is a to prom programs that we have 644 00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:23.570 A:middle L:90% . We have a design and construction program, that's 645 00:37:23.570 --> 00:37:27.869 A:middle L:90% what we call it. Design and construction. And 646 00:37:27.869 --> 00:37:32.840 A:middle L:90% we have a hey a development, real estate and 647 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:36.280 A:middle L:90% construction options. So we have two options in our 648 00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:37.309 A:middle L:90% program. One design and construction and the other is 649 00:37:37.309 --> 00:37:42.050 A:middle L:90% development, real estate and construction. And we have 650 00:37:42.050 --> 00:37:44.300 A:middle L:90% quite a few people who are in both. So 651 00:37:44.300 --> 00:37:46.719 A:middle L:90% it's split. Probably pretty reasonable. Oh, for 652 00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:50.960 A:middle L:90% a while, when residential construction was real hot, 653 00:37:51.530 --> 00:37:57.619 A:middle L:90% Late 90s or early 2000s, residential construction was a 654 00:37:57.619 --> 00:37:59.900 A:middle L:90% hot commodity and a lot of students were going into 655 00:37:59.900 --> 00:38:01.780 A:middle L:90% that real high and hot on that. And now 656 00:38:01.780 --> 00:38:07.530 A:middle L:90% that that's dropped off the deep that that endeavours dropped 657 00:38:07.530 --> 00:38:08.380 A:middle L:90% a bit as well. We still have those two 658 00:38:08.389 --> 00:38:12.449 A:middle L:90% options and we're still about equally split. But the 659 00:38:12.460 --> 00:38:15.070 A:middle L:90% energy level that residential doesn't quite have the enthusiasm that 660 00:38:15.070 --> 00:38:19.070 A:middle L:90% it did before please. You guys are still getting 661 00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:22.239 A:middle L:90% jobs. I don't know about the architects, the 662 00:38:22.019 --> 00:38:25.750 A:middle L:90% the some of the things that building construction has contributed 663 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:30.389 A:middle L:90% to in the past. The our student chapter of 664 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:35.389 A:middle L:90% the, of the International Honor Society for Construction. 665 00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:37.909 A:middle L:90% We are the second chapter, we are the beta 666 00:38:37.909 --> 00:38:42.110 A:middle L:90% chapter. So we're what we are actually the oldest 667 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:45.690 A:middle L:90% active chapter right now. The first chapter is, 668 00:38:45.699 --> 00:38:49.599 A:middle L:90% is I believe it currently an inactive chapter. We're 669 00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.019 A:middle L:90% the oldest active chapter. We've had a couple of 670 00:38:52.019 --> 00:38:57.829 A:middle L:90% presidents of the International Honor Society for Construction, Nash 671 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.510 A:middle L:90% International President out of our department. We uh, 672 00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:05.170 A:middle L:90% we are one of the founding members of the associated 673 00:39:05.170 --> 00:39:07.500 A:middle L:90% schools of construction. Associated schools construction is now, 674 00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:12.179 A:middle L:90% I believe it's 108 members or something. We want 675 00:39:12.190 --> 00:39:15.480 A:middle L:90% one of the original six or 7 founding members of 676 00:39:15.489 --> 00:39:17.730 A:middle L:90% the associated schools construction. So we have a long 677 00:39:17.739 --> 00:39:22.940 A:middle L:90% history there. The end, a good bit of 678 00:39:22.940 --> 00:39:29.719 A:middle L:90% the construction industry in Virginia uh is owned managed and 679 00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:32.340 A:middle L:90% performed by graduates of our program over the last 60 680 00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:38.750 A:middle L:90% , I guess it's 60 years. One of the 681 00:39:39.219 --> 00:39:44.139 A:middle L:90% think this is my first year back was saying something 682 00:39:45.019 --> 00:39:45.460 A:middle L:90% . If you're here to make money, you should 683 00:39:45.469 --> 00:39:47.480 A:middle L:90% go over there, go over the building construction. 684 00:39:47.710 --> 00:39:52.840 A:middle L:90% This is not. But at least they're being honest 685 00:39:52.219 --> 00:39:54.639 A:middle L:90% . Yeah, well, everybody should make money this 686 00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:58.000 A:middle L:90% way. I look at it and successful projects. 687 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:00.010 A:middle L:90% Everybody makes money on successful projects and it takes a 688 00:40:00.010 --> 00:40:04.599 A:middle L:90% collaborative endeavor. The problem that you frequently run into 689 00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:07.050 A:middle L:90% and I find in this whole design, construction kind 690 00:40:07.050 --> 00:40:08.230 A:middle L:90% of component is a design build, helps in construction 691 00:40:08.230 --> 00:40:10.519 A:middle L:90% management of risk, helps alleviate this. Is that 692 00:40:10.530 --> 00:40:14.369 A:middle L:90% up until the day the contract is inked, the 693 00:40:14.369 --> 00:40:16.849 A:middle L:90% designer has a tremendous amount of flexibility to be able 694 00:40:16.849 --> 00:40:21.619 A:middle L:90% to make modifications, inclusions, additions, subtractions to 695 00:40:21.630 --> 00:40:23.780 A:middle L:90% the documentation. Once the contract is inked, all 696 00:40:23.780 --> 00:40:25.820 A:middle L:90% that kind of stops and what you didn't take care 697 00:40:25.820 --> 00:40:29.099 A:middle L:90% of before the contract was inked. Now you've got 698 00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:32.269 A:middle L:90% to deal with in a contractual obligation basis and you've 699 00:40:32.269 --> 00:40:36.929 A:middle L:90% got to follow the letter of the law mostly unless 700 00:40:36.929 --> 00:40:37.239 A:middle L:90% you want to walk around on the edges of the 701 00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:40.980 A:middle L:90% contract. Um, so that creates that time, 702 00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:45.440 A:middle L:90% some difficulty in a working relationship. And then there's 703 00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.840 A:middle L:90% always the advocacy, the advocacy for the design and 704 00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:52.360 A:middle L:90% that's a continuing battle that designers thanks my design, 705 00:40:52.369 --> 00:40:57.460 A:middle L:90% my design, my design and the concept of design 706 00:40:57.460 --> 00:41:00.090 A:middle L:90% intent I think is very important. And constructors I 707 00:41:00.099 --> 00:41:02.150 A:middle L:90% believe understand that very well. The minute you begin 708 00:41:02.150 --> 00:41:05.510 A:middle L:90% to, from an architectural perspective, the intent was 709 00:41:05.510 --> 00:41:07.230 A:middle L:90% to do this. Now how do we go about 710 00:41:07.230 --> 00:41:09.659 A:middle L:90% actually doing that? If we can have those conversations 711 00:41:09.670 --> 00:41:12.679 A:middle L:90% after the contract is inked, we can have a 712 00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:15.159 A:middle L:90% very successful project downstream. The intent is this? 713 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:16.929 A:middle L:90% Well, my intent was this Okay, well let's 714 00:41:16.929 --> 00:41:20.650 A:middle L:90% see if we can't work these two intense out and 715 00:41:20.650 --> 00:41:22.420 A:middle L:90% hopefully from a collaborative perspective to work out for success 716 00:41:22.429 --> 00:41:24.429 A:middle L:90% , it happens. It's a, it's a small 717 00:41:24.429 --> 00:41:28.510 A:middle L:90% world out there, the communities that were in the 718 00:41:28.519 --> 00:41:31.599 A:middle L:90% design construction communities, no matter whether you're in Blacksburg 719 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:35.550 A:middle L:90% Virginia or you're in Washington, D. C. 720 00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:39.329 A:middle L:90% Or new york city, those design construction communities are 721 00:41:39.909 --> 00:41:45.079 A:middle L:90% pretty close titan, Everybody knows everybody, everybody knows 722 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:46.809 A:middle L:90% about everybody in it. So it's not like you 723 00:41:46.809 --> 00:41:50.829 A:middle L:90% don't know somebody and you don't interact with somebody. 724 00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:53.309 A:middle L:90% And as I tell my students, there are guys 725 00:41:53.309 --> 00:41:55.190 A:middle L:90% in class right now that you will be across the 726 00:41:55.190 --> 00:41:59.460 A:middle L:90% table on competing against known projects, there will be 727 00:41:59.460 --> 00:42:00.710 A:middle L:90% guys in the classroom that you will be on the 728 00:42:00.710 --> 00:42:05.019 A:middle L:90% same teams, competing against other guys in the classroom 729 00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:07.139 A:middle L:90% and recognize that. And there will be guys in 730 00:42:07.150 --> 00:42:10.699 A:middle L:90% Cobo Hall and Berta call that you will be collaborating 731 00:42:10.699 --> 00:42:15.719 A:middle L:90% with on design construct projects. You will be doing 732 00:42:15.099 --> 00:42:19.300 A:middle L:90% Construct projects on a traditional design bid, build that 733 00:42:19.309 --> 00:42:21.969 A:middle L:90% people that are just now two or 34 400 ft 734 00:42:21.969 --> 00:42:23.320 A:middle L:90% away from you are working on. So we really 735 00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:28.070 A:middle L:90% need to recognize that it's a small community and it's 736 00:42:28.070 --> 00:42:31.300 A:middle L:90% a relationship based kind of approach for success. Yeah 737 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:37.230 A:middle L:90% . But if the last think I'll ask is yeah 738 00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:40.760 A:middle L:90% , Ferrari has come up a lot. And do 739 00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:44.590 A:middle L:90% you have any stories or any anecdotes about any of 740 00:42:44.590 --> 00:42:46.670 A:middle L:90% those guys are already perjured or any of the Oh 741 00:42:46.670 --> 00:42:50.440 A:middle L:90% , I probably have a have a treasure trove of 742 00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:52.420 A:middle L:90% stories and we could maybe talk about some more stories 743 00:42:52.429 --> 00:42:58.230 A:middle L:90% at another time. The I will say about all 744 00:42:58.230 --> 00:43:02.030 A:middle L:90% of the faculty that I've had the opportunity to study 745 00:43:02.030 --> 00:43:05.969 A:middle L:90% under at Virginia Tech and all the faculty that have 746 00:43:05.980 --> 00:43:08.559 A:middle L:90% had an opportunity to collaborate with Virginia Tech. Their 747 00:43:08.570 --> 00:43:13.559 A:middle L:90% predominant interest is a success of a student. They 748 00:43:13.570 --> 00:43:19.420 A:middle L:90% are here to change people's lives. The faculty are 749 00:43:19.420 --> 00:43:23.679 A:middle L:90% here to change students lives and we hope we're successful 750 00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:25.909 A:middle L:90% in changing their lives. And I will tell you 751 00:43:25.909 --> 00:43:30.070 A:middle L:90% that Ferrari had a tremendous impact on my life and 752 00:43:30.070 --> 00:43:32.599 A:middle L:90% changed portions of my life. Professor Crandall had a 753 00:43:32.610 --> 00:43:37.769 A:middle L:90% tremendous impact on my life and changed parts of my 754 00:43:37.769 --> 00:43:42.309 A:middle L:90% life in Berkshire had had an impact on my life 755 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:45.429 A:middle L:90% , not maybe as significant as those other two faculty 756 00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:49.630 A:middle L:90% , but changed my life in Virginia Tech changed my 757 00:43:49.630 --> 00:43:52.980 A:middle L:90% life. And I think that we, we should 758 00:43:52.989 --> 00:43:57.670 A:middle L:90% always be cognizant of the recognition of those people who 759 00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:00.409 A:middle L:90% help change your life and help make your life better 760 00:44:00.110 --> 00:44:04.750 A:middle L:90% . And the Virginia Tech College of Architecture and Urban 761 00:44:04.750 --> 00:44:07.949 A:middle L:90% Studies or as I like to call it because building 762 00:44:07.949 --> 00:44:12.510 A:middle L:90% construction, architecture and urban studies has changed my life 763 00:44:14.789 --> 00:44:15.250 A:middle L:90% . But I do have a few stories I could 764 00:44:15.250 --> 00:44:21.010 A:middle L:90% probably tell you after. All right, That's great 765 00:44:21.789 --> 00:44:22.360 A:middle L:90% . Great. Is there anything else you want to 766 00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:24.320 A:middle L:90% say? No? Well, yeah, I can 767 00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:25.980 A:middle L:90% tell you the in the old days when we got 768 00:44:25.980 --> 00:44:34.619 A:middle L:90% started and you know, customs and customs, custom 769 00:44:34.619 --> 00:44:36.489 A:middle L:90% take customs. Let me see if that's the right 770 00:44:36.500 --> 00:44:43.820 A:middle L:90% word is at customs or what's that routines, Customs 771 00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:45.010 A:middle L:90% . And I was the best. You can help 772 00:44:45.010 --> 00:44:47.349 A:middle L:90% me figure out the word. But we started this 773 00:44:49.070 --> 00:44:51.630 A:middle L:90% coffee drinking. We used to drink a lot of 774 00:44:51.630 --> 00:44:53.190 A:middle L:90% coffee. The professors drank coffee. The professors would 775 00:44:53.190 --> 00:44:57.820 A:middle L:90% go down to the Greeks where the seller is now 776 00:44:57.820 --> 00:45:00.260 A:middle L:90% and they would drink coffee and then they would take 777 00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:00.820 A:middle L:90% a student to let's go get a cup of coffee 778 00:45:00.820 --> 00:45:02.199 A:middle L:90% . So you'll be working in there and pull you 779 00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:04.599 A:middle L:90% right out of the, out of the lab. 780 00:45:04.610 --> 00:45:05.920 A:middle L:90% Let's go get a cup of coffee. So you 781 00:45:05.929 --> 00:45:07.349 A:middle L:90% go down and get a cup of coffee. Then 782 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:08.769 A:middle L:90% talk. Next thing. You know, they would 783 00:45:08.769 --> 00:45:12.000 A:middle L:90% pull out a napkin out of the dispenser and start 784 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.670 A:middle L:90% eating on a napping. I think Virginia Tech invented 785 00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:19.280 A:middle L:90% the design on a napkin process In the early mid 786 00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:21.940 A:middle L:90% 60s. All right. So we would do that 787 00:45:21.940 --> 00:45:22.739 A:middle L:90% and bring that back. You talk about it and 788 00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:25.070 A:middle L:90% you do those kinds of things. So whenever we 789 00:45:25.070 --> 00:45:30.579 A:middle L:90% would have a an issue a designer's block or something 790 00:45:30.579 --> 00:45:31.139 A:middle L:90% , we go get a coffee. So we'd go 791 00:45:31.139 --> 00:45:32.630 A:middle L:90% down to the Greeks and we get a coffee. 792 00:45:32.630 --> 00:45:37.420 A:middle L:90% So coffee became up a ritual and a custom that 793 00:45:37.420 --> 00:45:40.260 A:middle L:90% we developed and incorporated into our thing. The design 794 00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:43.909 A:middle L:90% on napkins was a piece and part that happened. 795 00:45:44.289 --> 00:45:47.010 A:middle L:90% The classical Schaefer fountain pen that you had the ink 796 00:45:47.010 --> 00:45:50.769 A:middle L:90% cartridge in that everybody used to draw with became a 797 00:45:50.780 --> 00:45:54.170 A:middle L:90% kind of classical drawing to. And so so in 798 00:45:54.170 --> 00:46:00.000 A:middle L:90% the early days there there was a strong camaraderie of 799 00:46:00.380 --> 00:46:02.889 A:middle L:90% oh, role models of the faculty. The faculties 800 00:46:02.889 --> 00:46:07.099 A:middle L:90% were role models for the architecture, young architecture students 801 00:46:07.099 --> 00:46:08.630 A:middle L:90% to determine how they might want to carry on in 802 00:46:08.630 --> 00:46:10.840 A:middle L:90% a design sense and how they may want to interact 803 00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:15.099 A:middle L:90% with other people. The some of the aggression that 804 00:46:15.099 --> 00:46:17.329 A:middle L:90% was shown sometimes and I'll call it aggression and some 805 00:46:17.329 --> 00:46:22.079 A:middle L:90% people might call it assertiveness where where people just tell 806 00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:23.039 A:middle L:90% you, the professor say that's a piece of crap 807 00:46:23.050 --> 00:46:24.900 A:middle L:90% , they throw it on the floor and they stamp 808 00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:27.429 A:middle L:90% on it and said, if you don't understand what 809 00:46:27.429 --> 00:46:30.829 A:middle L:90% I'm talking about, you need to get another another 810 00:46:30.829 --> 00:46:34.340 A:middle L:90% curriculum. And so at times those kind of might 811 00:46:34.349 --> 00:46:36.719 A:middle L:90% be intimidating. I'm not sure we can do those 812 00:46:36.730 --> 00:46:38.840 A:middle L:90% things these days, Maybe we can, those guys 813 00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:40.409 A:middle L:90% were able to do it and get away with it 814 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:44.739 A:middle L:90% . And it's an appreciative aspect of life that we 815 00:46:44.739 --> 00:46:46.500 A:middle L:90% could have. I don't know how your professors interact 816 00:46:46.510 --> 00:46:50.659 A:middle L:90% with you on those things in building construction. We 817 00:46:50.659 --> 00:46:52.960 A:middle L:90% have a real strong relationship with the students that it's 818 00:46:52.969 --> 00:46:59.420 A:middle L:90% a building construction, particularly it's almost fraternity kind of 819 00:46:59.429 --> 00:47:01.190 A:middle L:90% based thing in a sense that everybody is a member 820 00:47:01.190 --> 00:47:05.269 A:middle L:90% . They know the members, their collegial with each 821 00:47:05.269 --> 00:47:08.000 A:middle L:90% other, They collaborate a lot. They live and 822 00:47:08.010 --> 00:47:10.460 A:middle L:90% work together. So it's a, it's a real 823 00:47:10.469 --> 00:47:15.210 A:middle L:90% community, real strong community and that helps everybody go 824 00:47:15.210 --> 00:47:23.929 A:middle L:90% a long way. The the two, this building 825 00:47:23.929 --> 00:47:27.469 A:middle L:90% is quite nice for students. It's a wonderful building 826 00:47:27.469 --> 00:47:30.559 A:middle L:90% , a wonderful opportunity for the students. So basically 827 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:31.909 A:middle L:90% those are kind of it josh. I could tell 828 00:47:31.909 --> 00:47:35.170 A:middle L:90% you some stories of things the students used to do 829 00:47:35.179 --> 00:47:37.599 A:middle L:90% where we climbed up on the roof of the, 830 00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:40.599 A:middle L:90% what was the original Squires hall, where there was 831 00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:45.139 A:middle L:90% a little spire up on the top and a couple 832 00:47:45.139 --> 00:47:47.900 A:middle L:90% up there and we painted an A on it. 833 00:47:49.469 --> 00:47:51.039 A:middle L:90% I'm surprised. I don't know how we didn't fall 834 00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:52.469 A:middle L:90% off the roof. I think we had a rope 835 00:47:52.469 --> 00:47:52.489 A:middle L:90% tied up there. I don't know if, I 836 00:47:52.489 --> 00:47:53.929 A:middle L:90% don't know who the first guy was. They went 837 00:47:53.929 --> 00:47:57.050 A:middle L:90% up there. I wasn't the first guy, but 838 00:47:57.050 --> 00:47:58.869 A:middle L:90% we had a rope that we kind of pulled ourselves 839 00:47:58.869 --> 00:48:00.969 A:middle L:90% up there, kind of tied off and we painted 840 00:48:00.969 --> 00:48:01.570 A:middle L:90% this a and we kept a look at this. 841 00:48:01.570 --> 00:48:06.710 A:middle L:90% If anybody was spotting us and big event the next 842 00:48:06.710 --> 00:48:07.130 A:middle L:90% day we can go look at it when the sun 843 00:48:07.130 --> 00:48:09.719 A:middle L:90% came up. Right. So we did that. 844 00:48:09.730 --> 00:48:12.880 A:middle L:90% We built a, you know, a two ft 845 00:48:12.889 --> 00:48:15.389 A:middle L:90% by two ft concrete cube on the drill field one 846 00:48:15.389 --> 00:48:17.500 A:middle L:90% night in the dark of night with lookouts at each 847 00:48:17.500 --> 00:48:21.550 A:middle L:90% end of the drill field to let us know with 848 00:48:21.550 --> 00:48:22.889 A:middle L:90% a flashlight, if there were some somebody coming down 849 00:48:22.889 --> 00:48:25.539 A:middle L:90% either either into the drill field or or from either 850 00:48:25.539 --> 00:48:28.869 A:middle L:90% direction so we could all hit the ground so we 851 00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:31.730 A:middle L:90% wouldn't be discovered. So those are some of the 852 00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:35.929 A:middle L:90% events that we kind of did. There's a couple 853 00:48:35.929 --> 00:48:39.329 A:middle L:90% of other kind of events but very exciting, very 854 00:48:39.329 --> 00:48:45.469 A:middle L:90% intoxicating time of life, early Middle 60s, early 855 00:48:45.469 --> 00:48:49.099 A:middle L:90% 70s. And I think the old high school building 856 00:48:49.099 --> 00:48:52.590 A:middle L:90% contributed to that a lot that it was just, 857 00:48:54.769 --> 00:48:57.650 A:middle L:90% I went to. It really was a think tank 858 00:48:57.659 --> 00:49:00.139 A:middle L:90% , do tank working the hallways. People had models 859 00:49:00.139 --> 00:49:05.309 A:middle L:90% in the hallways building in the hallways just like it's 860 00:49:05.309 --> 00:49:07.489 A:middle L:90% just a real real nice environment to work in. 861 00:49:08.269 --> 00:49:14.579 A:middle L:90% Okay. Yeah. Mm That's right. Thank you 862 00:49:14.590 --> 00:49:16.179 A:middle L:90% . When did you finish your degree? Nay nay 863 --> A:middle L:90% .